[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

[Golden]

Sloonei - you say "I cannot support the lynch of x"

Do you mean you are actively concerned about the intentions of people who want to lynch them, or do you just mean you aren't expecting you'll vote for either of them.

[Epignosis]

I have not developef a strong read on either LC or SVS, and so I can not support a lynch against either of them.

Do you expect to develop a strong read on anyone in order to support a lynch against anyone?

If so, how will this happen?

[Sloonei]

I have not developef a strong read on either LC or SVS, and so I can not support a lynch against either of them.

Do you expect to develop a strong read on anyone in order to support a lynch against anyone?

If so, how will this happen?

I do. It will happen the same way it always does. By looking at all the posts in the thread and deciding which person seems the best choice. It's still very early and I won't pretend to have any solid reads at this stage.

I had a look at SVS just now. There is not enough in her post history for me to go off of yet. I assume she will respond to the number of things that have been said about her when she can. At that point I will take another look at her.

I did find her wariness of the lists a bit odd, though I admit I think that's something of a sensitive issue for me. I'm taking notice of everyone's stance on it I'm not sure what she meant about people using lists as "litmus testing". She was also a bit firmly defensive with Epignosis, it seems. Others have already pointed this out, add me to the list, i guess.

[Golden]

So it appears we have only a few PMs between us, and that multiple of us got ones that were the same or at least very similar.

It is a shame we can't quote them but I think we can verify if they are the same. Mine contained 102 words, 13 full stops, 7 commas. It did not conclude with a full stop or with a natural sentence end. Does this align with others who had something about stopping time and having a second day?

[Sloonei]

So it appears we have only a few PMs between us, and that multiple of us got ones that were the same or at least very similar.

It is a shame we can't quote them but I think we can verify if they are the same. Mine contained 102 words, 13 full stops, 7 commas. It did not conclude with a full stop or with a natural sentence end. Does this align with others who had something about stopping time and having a second day?

mine ends similarly.

[Epignosis]

So, Sloonei, who are your Day 1 suspicions right now?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Gamer Guy you were just on a mafia team with S~V~S, do you think we are seeing her mafia game here?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

[Epignosis]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

[Epignosis]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

[Sloonei]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

Why have you made up your mind so early?

[Sloonei]

So, Sloonei, who are your Day 1 suspicions right now?

Gumshoe, perhaps Cobalt, neither of them felt particularly strong in their responses to me earlier. I continue to sense something odd in that Gumshoe post and I'm not dropping either suspicion until they are resolved.
I'm not quite finished with any pre-emptive read on Gamer, but he feels close enough to an early suspect, at least for now.
I feel as if I'm getting a better sense of how to read you, and right now I'm leaning town. Still early.

[Epignosis]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

Why have you made up your mind so early?

Why are you asking me this now? I made up my mind yesterday.

[Epignosis]

I feel as if I'm getting a better sense of how to read you, and right now I'm leaning town. Still early.

People keep saying this.

[Sloonei]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

Why have you made up your mind so early?

Why are you asking me this now? I made up my mind yesterday.

Why did you make up your mind yesterday?
Suppose there's an alternate universe where we get to vote out two players today. Who's the second person we throw votes at?

[Golden]

Epi: but why?

Sloonei: but why?

Epi: but why but why?

Sloonei: but why but why but why???

Adding Sloonei to my civ vibes.

MP, I'm not making a rainbow, but here is what I have so far:

baddie vibes: SVS, hedgey
civ vibes: Epi, gumshoe, sloonei

I have notably not formed a view on a few players that seem to be high suspicions of others: LC, gamer, cobalt come to mind.

I hope some of my favourite quieter people like TB, splints, neverwhere and timmer share some more of their thoughts. And also some of my favourite louder people like MM.

I also don't know what to make of the alignment of the new and improved 'posting bass' but I like it.

[nijuukyugou]

Mmmmk somewhat caught up. I'd say remind me not to leave the thread for too long so I don't have 4 pages to read, but I'll inevitably do it again.

I don't get the Hedgeowl suspicion at all. She posted while catching up and gave her input on a couple main discussions. None of her posts look particularly bad to me, just kind of average minimal-but-sufficient participation. I guess I understood LC's point (though it was regarding SVS) about commenting on issues rather than players, but Hedgie gave her views on LC/Epi/SVS so that doesn't really apply. I don't know, she could be hiding behind that type of participation (I haven't played many games with her but isn't it kind of her norm?) but I just don't really see the reasons for suspecting her, they seem contrived.

I could see SVS as bad. I mean, SVS is always bad

Agreed (at least the part about Hedgeowl suspicion). I think it was good of TH to search her like he did, but I disagree that it's baddie behavior from her. I don't think his suspicion was contrived.

Dragon D. Luffy has been replaced by Cancucklehead. She cannot be lynched today.

what are you so scared of, little puppy?

You didn't witness the maelstrom of deceit that was Canucklehead in Roger Rabbit.

They still whisper about it in Toontown.

(Just kidding, Canuck - I was actually very excited to see your name!)

Consequently, my mafia game, which is often defined by a high volume of posts, will be affected this game. I will be much more likely to pop in less frequently, which will increase my already notoriously long posts probably much more so, and make my style seem more like a cross of Blooper-esque, Epi-esque, and MP-esque, rather than straight-up MP-esque combination of frequency and volume.

I'm an -esque!! I'm so touched

Blooper, you note in this post multiple "truces", but ask the question whether there is just one thereafter. Devin and I never agreed to a truce. Just wanted to clear that up.

You specifically note you have "no strong opinions". If that is the case, do you have weak opinions? If so, what are they?

Fair enough. I just saw a lot of (mostly jokingly it seems) buddy-buddy Day 0 stuff, so I figured I'd comment on it. I'm notoriously bad at getting lost in the first several days of larger games because of the sheer volume of people, so I'm trying a new thing called "comment about SOMETHING, whatever it is" to at least keep a placeholder. So far, not doing so hot. But hey, here I am!

As for my opinions (and the actual contributory points of this post), I have a few opinions. I never trust Epi, but damn I do love actually playing a game with him, and whatever my vibes are right now, I'm feeling all right about him today. This means that I think he's genuinely baddie hunting, and I think both of his suspicions of LC and SVS are fairly sound (I almost said interesting but I know better than to use that now :P). I think LC's response to Epi's going after him looks too defensive to me. I think my general view of SVS is that she gets defensive regardless of alignment, which makes her hard to read, but I agree with others (can't remember exactly who) that suddenly defending the whole "interesting" argument in the manner she did was suspicious. So, there's that.

I don't have a good read of the new people in here, but I'm glad to see some fresh meat (at least to the Syndicate). It certainly makes for some...fascinating gameplay.

[nijuukyugou]

Also, I will be traveling to visit a friend up near DC starting tomorrow, so my posts may or may not be more sporadic than they already are. Seems many of us will be traveling this fine weekend

[Sloonei]

Does my gameplay fascinate you, ni... niju, nin... Blooper?

[Golden]

I can't imagine why people call her blooper

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

I don't have any read on MM yet he has been around enough.

Here are my thoughts on Cobalt.

Long Con, I'm coming for your weave this game.

This is Cobalt's second post.

Spoiler: show

This all got very interesting. I see MP07 is going full-swing with the Question-Hammer, good to see! Gets people talking.

Here's the general rule I use with new players. If it comes down to a vote that's based on very little, I'll probably avoid going for them in the spirit of community friendliness. If there's a bigger or more stand-out suspicion on a new player, then I'll probably vote for them despite their newness.

I'm not too pinged by this truce thing, and I don't know what to think about the shoving match between MP and Epig yet.

Linki: I also suspect Gumshoe and Devin of being criminally fraternal in some subtle way.

Weren't you mafia last game? I do remember you personally leading a preemptive charge against me Day 1 for my first mafia game, and then proceeding to night kill me Night 1. Which was slightly irritating for my first game, but hey, that's the game. Correct me if I'm wrong with my info tho.

hhhh, drag ha

Long Con buddied up to my reads and he was my strongest civ read and he wound up being mafia. Thank fuck for a godlike vigi / JOAT. Won't be making that mistake again.

It's also why I'm coming for his weave this game.

This is his sixth post and the second time he jokes about going after LC.

Spoiler: show

My eye is on Devin almost immediately because of that joking truce thing. Mafia Cobalt tries to jokingly buddy up to people to see if they'd be receptive to it or not.

Here's the general rule I use with new players. If it comes down to a vote that's based on very little, I'll probably avoid going for them in the spirit of community friendliness. If there's a bigger or more stand-out suspicion on a new player, then I'll probably vote for them despite their newness.

Basically this

I don't give a fuck, y'all can vote for me whenever you want, if you want. Just keep in mind that the most recent mafia game I played my day 3 scum reads list was 5/6 accurate and I got MVP. I don't know you guys as well as that crowd but I do have decent instincts.

So because it is line with your mafia meta to do something, you extrapolate to mean that it is likely within someone else's meta, whom you've never met, as well?

Are you implying that we shouldn't vote for you because you have good instincts? What does that have to do with your alignment?

I actually missed this.

1. Meta is meta. If you really think every single person would have entirely different mafia strategies, note that it's likely impossible for there to be no overlap. Lots of different beginning of the game strategies that I've seen, people tend to overlap. ESPECIALLY people that I don't know, because it's a whole new field with all new players, but you're likely to see things you've seen before elsewhere.

2. I never said you shouldn't vote for me because I have good instincts, I was just trying to let you know I'm not a tentative newbie who's afraid to get their feet wet, in a few more words than that.

Thanks for putting up with my extended interrogation, Devin. This certainly won't be the end, but I wanted to take advantage of you being here at the same time as myself, early on, to try and pick your brain.

You won't be getting my vote on Day 1 unless something drastically changes. Neither will Epi.

I don't like this post for some reason. It gives me bad vibes.

I have every intention to continue my newfound love of rainbow lists, if at all possible, since I do find them particularly helpful in organizing my own thoughts and feelings on players, and I have to keep up the self-imposed moniker of Rainbow Sockman somehow!

I will put them in spoiler tags though, so that people may read them at their discretion.

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Devin the Omniscient
Epignosis

Bass_the_Clever
Birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
Bullzeye
DFaraday
Dragon D. Luffy
DREAM
fingersplints
Golden
Gumshoe
Hedgeowl
Long Con
Metalmarsh89
Neverwhere
nijuukyugou
nutella
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
S~V~S
timmer
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head
XthAtGAm3RGuYX

Cobalt


For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Come at me, Cobalt.

It's only a very slight mafia read. I'll roll with it. Nothing to really come at you for.

I want to lynch Long Con. That's where my Day 1 vote will be going as of right now.

I'm so down for this. Count me in.

I don't give a fuck, y'all can vote for me whenever you want, if you want. Just keep in mind that the most recent mafia game I played my day 3 scum reads list was 5/6 accurate and I got MVP. I don't know you guys as well as that crowd but I do have decent instincts.

So you were a great civ in the last game, and this means you... should be assumed to be a civ this time again? For realsies?

Oh, I never said to assume I'm civilian. If y'all think I'm scum then by all means lynch me. Just saying a little about me as a player with some examples.

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.

If y'all knew me, you would know how I play. You don't, so I gave an example. I'm aggressive. Like it or lynch me.

You said you didn't know what to think about it. Why say that? Useless. Form an opinion and then state it when you have one. You had other things to say, but you decided to drop that in there and call it a "shoving match."

Yes, that's what happened. I'm glad that you can play your way and I can play my way. Makes for a richer, more fun game of Mafia. You can stay silent and form opinions and only speak when you have them, that's one way to do things. Another way to do things is to make a comment first and then observe the reactions of those who are commented about. You can learn a lot.

The latter of the strategies listed is precisely why I made that post about my previous game. I wanted to see who reacted to it when and how. But I don't buy that you were doing it either.

This is the only real thing Cobalt said about LC.
In this same post he says he has a slight mafia read on MP.

So after all those post I'm getting a mafia read from Cobalt. He never really gives any real reason why he wants to vote LC but he has no problem voting LC. He also says he has a slight mafia read on MP but doesn't wait to see if that will become a stronger mafia read before the lynch ends.

[nijuukyugou]

Does my gameplay fascinate you, ni... niju, nin... Blooper?

People new to me always fascinate me!

I can't imagine why people call her blooper

I feel naked without my regular avatar.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I can't figure out the spoiler tags so sorry about that.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi: but why?

Sloonei: but why?

Epi: but why but why?

Sloonei: but why but why but why???

Adding Sloonei to my civ vibes.

MP, I'm not making a rainbow, but here is what I have so far:

baddie vibes: SVS, hedgey
civ vibes: Epi, gumshoe, sloonei

I have notably not formed a view on a few players that seem to be high suspicions of others: LC, gamer, cobalt come to mind.

I hope some of my favourite quieter people like TB, splints, neverwhere and timmer share some more of their thoughts. And also some of my favourite louder people like MM.

I also don't know what to make of the alignment of the new and improved 'posting bass' but I like it.

I figured I would try harder this game because I was disappointed in my game play in Bible mafia.

[nijuukyugou]

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

[Sloonei]

I had not noticed that metalmarsh and Cobalt both already voted for Long Con. This behavior seems in line with mm's usual style and it says nothing of his alignment. Cobalt is an unfamiliar player to me, but it is the more suspicious of the two right now, due in large part to the reasons Bass laid out.

[Sloonei]

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

Do you believe he was trying to convince he was a civilian, or do you believe what he said about just wanting to let everyone know he's not a new player?

[nijuukyugou]

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

Do you believe he was trying to convince he was a civilian, or do you believe what he said about just wanting to let everyone know he's not a new player?

My vibe is that I think he's playing the civ card hard. A little too hard.

[Golden]

Bass - I like your points on Cobalt. It's one thing to joke about coming after LC but if you are going to go after someone in a jokey way, I'd expect to see some real explanation for why you are actually willing to follow through on that when it transitions into a genuine suspicion. I hadn't previously connected the dots on that. Cobalt - your thoughts on why you are willing to vote LC?

LC, your thoughts on Cobalt's 'jokey' suspicion of you, and whether or not his transition meshes with your experience of him, would be good too.

All in all, I find Cobalt hard to read. Even the behaviour Bass points out doesn't seem entirely inconsistent with the 'I'm aggressive and I don't give a shit what you think' approach Cobalt is taking to the game.

[Sloonei]

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

Do you believe he was trying to convince he was a civilian, or do you believe what he said about just wanting to let everyone know he's not a new player?

My vibe is that I think he's playing the civ card hard. A little too hard.

Can you point to any examples in his posts besides that one? I felt like his response to my post about whether or not Gumshoe was defending him also seemed a bit overly-defensive, like he was trying hard to distance himself from something. It reminds me of a similar case we saw in the Economics game against a player who would eventually flip scum/bad. I think it was Black Rock.

[Tangrowth]

Hey folks, only here for a minute, but I have managed to keep up with reading so far. We'll see how successful I am when I'm gone. :P

I meant to say that I have acknowledged the thoughts on LC and others, but I still have most of the players sitting in grey because I'm still trying to decide how to read all of them. Figured that was also implied, but didn't want to make it seem as though I was ignoring anyone's cases.

Golden, thanks for elaborating. I feel similarly re: Sloonei, but this is essentially his meta that we're seeing thus far, and like Jay, he's a beast at keeping his meta while mafia (though in the game I replaced out of, he did have one post that caught everyone's attention, otherwise he was able to accomplish it from what time I was in the game). So I'm not bumping him up to very slightly civilian just yet, although I've considered it. A lot of my reads will inevitably be dependent on how D1 votes are cast.

nutella, I'll look into the gender sidebar option, that's a good idea. In games that I host, I always include a genderized version of the player list, but it seems it's not trendy since I don't think any other host has caught on. :P For understandable reasons, since hosts have enough to do as it is.

Bass, first off, the spoiler tags will fail if the quote you are quoting already has spoiler tags in it (since the system reads the opening spoiler tag, then another opening spoiler tag, then closed tag, then closed tag). Other than that, you seem to be doing it correctly. You illustrate some good points re: Cobalt, but I'm keeping him at very slightly mafia for now. I look forward to his subsequent elaborations.

I can wait until the airport, probably, so I'll hold off on voting until then, but I likely won't have much time.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Bass - I like your points on Cobalt. It's one thing to joke about coming after LC but if you are going to go after someone in a jokey way, I'd expect to see some real explanation for why you are actually willing to follow through on that when it transitions into a genuine suspicion. I hadn't previously connected the dots on that. Cobalt - your thoughts on why you are willing to vote LC?

LC, your thoughts on Cobalt's 'jokey' suspicion of you, and whether or not his transition meshes with your experience of him, would be good too.

All in all, I find Cobalt hard to read. Even the behaviour Bass points out doesn't seem entirely inconsistent with the 'I'm aggressive and I don't give a shit what you think' approach Cobalt is taking to the game.

It is inconsistent with him saying that he has a good instinct when it comes catching baddies. I feel like if someone is good at catching baddies they are good at making cases on baddies because to get baddies lynched you have to get people to vote for them, and to get people to vote for someone you need to make a case on that person.

[nijuukyugou]

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

Do you believe he was trying to convince he was a civilian, or do you believe what he said about just wanting to let everyone know he's not a new player?

My vibe is that I think he's playing the civ card hard. A little too hard.

Can you point to any examples in his posts besides that one? I felt like his response to my post about whether or not Gumshoe was defending him also seemed a bit overly-defensive, like he was trying hard to distance himself from something. It reminds me of a similar case we saw in the Economics game against a player who would eventually flip scum/bad. I think it was Black Rock.

Sure! I'll have to get to it a little later, however - I'm going out for a bit.

[Canucklehead]

Hihi!
I'm just popping in to say I'm here, haven't read anything yet, but will do a brief skim and post before bed tonight.
Yippee!

[Canucklehead]

Before I waste too much time, can someone let me know if it's worth reading Day 0 or not? Or should I just jump in at the beginning of Day 1? (Note: my preference is to read as little as possible, so I will be highly biased in favor of taking the advice of those who suggest I skip it. Laziness few, yo.)

[Black Rock]

Before I waste too much time, can someone let me know if it's worth reading Day 0 or not? Or should I just jump in at the beginning of Day 1? (Note: my preference is to read as little as possible, so I will be highly biased in favor of taking the advice of those who suggest I skip it. Laziness few, yo.)

You oughta start from the beginning

[Golden]

Before I waste too much time, can someone let me know if it's worth reading Day 0 or not? Or should I just jump in at the beginning of Day 1? (Note: my preference is to read as little as possible, so I will be highly biased in favor of taking the advice of those who suggest I skip it. Laziness few, yo.)

Day zero was pretty content rich this time in my opinion. I think it is worth reading from the start (I would have said the opposite in economics, if that's helpful).

[Sloonei]

Day 0 has real stuff in it.

[Epignosis]

Epi how do you feel about Cobalt and MM?

I don't.

So you don't have a read on either one?

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

Why have you made up your mind so early?

Why are you asking me this now? I made up my mind yesterday.

Why did you make up your mind yesterday?
Suppose there's an alternate universe where we get to vote out two players today. Who's the second person we throw votes at?

I'm not answering that question because it would require me to explain something a fourth time.

S~V~S.

I'm so touched

In the head.

[Sloonei]

I missed this post, sorry Golden.

Sloonei - you say "I cannot support the lynch of x"

Do you mean you are actively concerned about the intentions of people who want to lynch them, or do you just mean you aren't expecting you'll vote for either of them.

A bit of both. What I meant in the case of Long Con is that I currently do not support the case against him, AND that settling on him would be a very easy (and thus scummy) route to take on Day 1. Now if we are to investigate things further and a consensus is reached that he's the scummiest player, that is a different story. But as things stand now, a few people have named him as a suspect for flimsy Day 0/1 reasons and as a result he's already a prime target to be lynched. Unless the case is developed significantly, I can't get behind it.

[Sloonei]

I want to lynch either Long Con or S~V~S. I'm not interested in talking about Cobalt or MM.

Do you have anything to say about Cobalt or MM?

Why have you made up your mind so early?

Why are you asking me this now? I made up my mind yesterday.

Why did you make up your mind yesterday?
Suppose there's an alternate universe where we get to vote out two players today. Who's the second person we throw votes at?

I'm not answering that question because it would require me to explain something a fourth time.

No it wouldn't. I am asking you to tell me why you were able to rule out the remaining 26 or however many players for the entire day, not why you've settled on those two names.

[Epignosis]

Because I am awesome in a way you will never know?

[Sloonei]

I believe it.

[Epignosis]

I don't care to focus on 27 people. I picked two. I will be voting for one of these two today.

[Hedgeowl]

My first post was responding to Epi giving me a hard time about not voting yet, but I hadn't finished reading the thread. I added my thoughts on the discussion about to vote or not to vote for new to mafia/syndicate players. My viewpoint has always been to give them time on Day 1, because it sucks to be lynched your first game/first day etc. Others were saying they would votes newbie for sure given a good enough reason, whereas I tend to the think reasons on Day 1 are rarely going to be that good for me to change my mind and vote a new player. My comment on bandwagons was obviously unclear. Some people discussed newbies being an easy target for baddies early on because they can make mistakes, slipups etc. I meant that in general I am wary of bandwagon voting on someone without a good reason, so if a lot of people bandwagon vote a newbie on Day 1 for a reason that I personally believe to be weak that makes me suspicious and cautious. Let me know if anything about this is still unclear.

As to TH's point about why I would comment on such a topic, it was a topic that was being discussed and I saw no reason to hold back on my opinion on Day 1 voting of newbs. I wasn't finished reading, but it seemed something I could discuss before I finished.

As to Golden's question, I had no idea why she was asking me about LC and SVS based on my comments. It was late and I thought maybe I had made a comment I didnt remember. We were both in thread at the time and so I just tried to clarify my thoughts and answers her question about them. I am laughing that TH accused me of being too meta and mechanics. He agrees with me that there wasnt that much to gather from those 5 pages, but then accuses me of not contributing better content? I am sorry I didn't decide to build a case on someone based on 3 posts, but when it takes me that long to catch-up on Day 0 there's not a lot left of me at 11:30pm to give to thoughtful analysis. I had to put together my son's new train table last night and it is glorious and he loves it. I may have been up too late playing with trains...

Spoiler: show

I'm suspicious of Hedgeowl.

First post:

Omg we started?!? Wut. Ok, I will be back tonight to jump in. 3 pages and its day 0! >.<

ture

Second post:

Spoiler: show

I want to lynch Long Con. That's where my Day 1 vote will be going as of right now.

Why? If you posted it already can you post a link.

It's Day 0. Long Con has six posts. I'm not posting a link for you. Read his posts and draw your own conclusion. Then tell me if you find anything suspicious.

If you don't, then I'll gladly share what I found.

Ok I read the six post, but I would still like to know what you find suspicious.
Is it because there are only six post, 3 of which are fluff posts?
Is it the MP/Epi shoving match post?

As promised:

This all got very interesting.

No it didn't. It's all Day 0 dicking around. Nothing has gotten interesting at all. "Interesting" is a stupid word. Stop using it Mafia.

I see MP07 is going full-swing with the Question-Hammer, good to see! Gets people talking.

According to LC, MP is getting people talking, and it's "good to see." Hold that in mind.

I'm not too pinged by this truce thing, and I don't know what to think about the shoving match between MP and Epig yet.

If you "don't know what to think" about something, why in hell bring it up? Does anybody care that you don't know what to think about something? Why not keep quiet until you do know what you think?

And why characterize my exchange with MP as a "shoving match?" That can't be genuine. In this same post, LC said MP was "swinging the question hammer," which is "good to see." Now he's not sure what to think about the Epi/MP "shoving match?"

This doesn't smell right to me.

I'm voting Long Con, except I can't because Hedgeowl hasn't voted 18 yet.

(Voted 18 cause, well I was late to the party, but still reading....)

i tend to agree about voting newbies on the first day, but good points about not all the players being new to mafia. Honestly my Day 1 reads are never going to be that sure that know I have to vote the new guy. However, I do tend to be wary of bandwagon votes for seemingly no good reason.

Hedgeowl chooses to chime in on the discussion about voting new players out on Day 1. It's not really a post sharing any suspicions. She tacks on a sentence at the end about being wary of "bandwagon votes for seemingly no good reason". This sentence lacks any sort of context within the game or even the rest of Hedgie's post itself. She doesn't really elaborate on what she means by "seemingly" no good reason, so I won't try to draw too much from it, but in any case it's a weird sentiment to share before any votes have been cast at all in the game. Mainly I want to end this point by saying this whole post was a weird, specific, generic thing for Hedgeowl to want to chime in about. Nobody's going to go out there and make a post saying they support lynching newbies on Day 1 for no reason. That's basically the opposite of what Hedgeowl's post says. The opinion that Hedgeowl shares here isn't groundbreaking, so it seems like a weird thing for Hedgeowl to find noteworthy of discussing. And it's not discussing her thoughts on any of the players in the game.

Golden tried to question Hedgie about that last sentence, I think, by attaching it to some context of what's going on in the game. Hedge's reply (also her third post):

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Hedgeowl - if several people ended up voting for LC or SVS today, would you consider that there seemed to be good reasons for that, or are you saying that you find the reasons to suspect LC and SVS unconvincing?

Oh I am not saying that. Did I say that? I was commenting on the earlier discussion about newbies, which SVS and LC are not. I am sympathetic to LC because of Epi's accusation around the word "interesting" but that's more because I am someone who overuses this word in life. I do find SVS' defense interesting (!) however. I would not say I am ready to vote based on any of this yet though. Mostly, I think there been a lot of huffing and puffing and MP's redonkulous rainbow list aside ( ), not much noteworthy in 5 pages that took me too long to read, so I agree with Epi there. I will say so far he reads like civ Epi to me, and I can never tell very well with LC.

what are ISOs that everyone is mentioning? I assume not In Search Of...

Hedgeowl clarifies that her last post was ONLY talking about the general idea of newbies and not on any discussion surrounding actual players in this game. But when Golden mentions Epi, LC et al, she does give her opinion. She ends by saying that there wasn't much noteworthy in the 5 pages she read, and that it took her too long to read. And while I don't disagree with her that there's not much meat to the discussion yet, she chose to post some pretty shallow content herself.

Post the fourth:

Spoiler: show

MP's redonkulous rainbow list aside ( )

I feel like I've seen a couple of people making fun of his list and I don't really understand why. Keeping a list rating how suspicious you are of each person in addition to your notes seems like a good idea. Is it just because his is color-coded?

i'll also be using rainbow lists, just so everyone knows. get ready.

Rainbow lists are new to me, but I don't object to them. I did laugh at MPs list this early in the game with only two people listed as "slightly" civvie or baddie leaning. It wasn't a rainbow.

Linki - not 50 shades I hope.

I'm sensing a pattern with Hedgeowl's contributions here. All mechanics and mafia meta talk, nothing about the game.

I have to admit I have no read in SVS at this point. I don't feel like I have enough information yet. Epi seems okay so far. Not sure about LC, he feels a bit squirrelly.

You have no read on SVS because you dont have enough information, but you built a case on me based on three innocuous posts on Day 0 (which until this game is pretty typical I thought). lol.

[Hedgeowl]

Spoiler tags are also new to me. What did I do up there? ^

[Sloonei]

I think others have said that quotes and spoilers are not compatible on this site for some reason. I dunno.

[Epignosis]

I plan to vote for Long Con in the next hour. Does anyone have a reason I should not?

[Hedgeowl]

I would add to Turnip's post that in Hedgeowl's third post, she seems to state that MP's rainbow list is something worth taking note of, but all she goes on to say is that it made her laugh.

That was a bit of tongue and cheek humor. I did not think his rainbow list (with only 2 colors!) was super valuable to me at the time, but I thought it was funny of him to try. I am so rarely serious in my posts, so it sometimes causes confusion. I play mafia for the lulz and as a break from my crazy wonderful two year old when he is sleeping, so I am not as serious as the serious players, but I do enjoy the game.

I also don't want anyone to feel as if I am insulting your rainbow lists. They are new to me and I am just getting used to them, but have no issues with those who use them, as you know, an actual rainbow. I haven't decided how I feel about Grainbows yet though.

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

Also, her response question 'Did I say that?' - was a noteworthy response to me.

Ah, my bandwagon comment was in no way related to SVS or LC. They are both so slippery when bad that I often find I suspect them in every game just because, but struggle to really find a concrete reason beyond gut. This game so far, I am finding Epi's comments noteworthy regarding SVS, but also keeping in mind this dynamic between the two is not new. As for LC I still don't know, but I have 3 more pages to read.

I'm with Turnip Head on this one. I got so caught up focusing on the whole Epi - Lc - SVS talk I forgot about the posts Hedgeowl had made. They read really scummy to me too. A lot of mafia excuse speak. If Hedge is bad, it seems kind of sloppy of her....

At this point she's pinging me the most for a day 1 vote.

I am reading Gumshoe as civvie for now.

How is it sloppy of me? What exactly did I say that you find to be mafia excuse speak? That I dont want to target newbies? Also, I can't decide if I am offended or not if it is sloppy mafia playing.

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

It just seems so out of place in that post. And I see what you're saying, she could refer back to that remark to preemptively counter any bandwagons she doesn't like. It's like that sentence came from the future and landed in Hedgeowl's post.

TH, you have seriously played mafia with me enough to know that I am very wary of bandwagons or what I perceive to be bandwagons and have used my votes before to actively save people I think are civvies. I dont see how that is any different for me this game.