[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

[Sloonei]

Hedgeowl
Came under some early suspicion for her "bandwagon" comment on Day 0.

Spoiler: show

(Voted 18 cause, well I was late to the party, but still reading....)

i tend to agree about voting newbies on the first day, but good points about not all the players being new to mafia. Honestly my Day 1 reads are never going to be that sure that know I have to vote the new guy. However, I do tend to be wary of bandwagon votes for seemingly no good reason.

I thought it was a good piece of Day 1 suspicion, but that Hedgeowl addressed it fairly well (here, here, and here) and I didn't come out of it feeling too suspicious of her. The comment about bandwagons makes sense as a separate thought tacked on to the rest of her post, rather than something that's supposed to be in any way connected to the rest of the post.

Since then Hedge's posts have the appearance of a player who is constantly trying to catch up on a busy thread.

Spoiler: show

Alright, I just finished catching up and am tired. I am really uncertain as to my suspicions currently, but would like to look back at those that jumped on board other people's suspicions and voted as a result. I am not super surprised at Cobalt's vote, but dont know how serious to take it given his earlier comments. MM as well need to reread. I will be interested in seeing how others vote an will plan to vote tomorrow evening hopefully.

Also, I find myself identifying with TGG description of playstyle as well. Rings true for me too.

Night y'all.

Ugh, I am like 5 pages behind, but I don't want SvS to go down on a self vote. Voting LC because between him and Cobalt I feel more suspicious of him, but very weak still.

Linki no idea what is going on in the vote lol.

Sorry to be so absent, but am on a family trip this weekend at an event and haven't found much free time. I will be home late Sunday evening and be back to normal then.

I haven't caught up but wanted to post that I voted 18 and also got the Broadway overrated single most role check one, so not sure if that corresponded to Goldens numbers, but there it is.

Not shocked at all about Epi being killed. Happens so often when he is civ, but two mafia team def confuses the issue. I do think if LC is bad his team would not NK Epi, so leaning towards the set-up more so there.

It is difficult to make anything of these posts, and she is far from alone it seems in being a busy person IRL. I appreciate that she's at least given us a reason. My read on Hedge is mostly neutral, though I don't get much of a dishonest vibe from any of her posts. The closest thing to a suspicious post she made was this one, which I questioned her on yesterday:

I don't like the taunting Cobalt trying to get us to vote him now. Claiming that ability after someone guessed it seems like what you did I a game LC when Juliets said you were indy and you weren't.

I am almost inclined to leave the LC-Cobalt thing for another day, but there have been so many questions raised between these two. I still have 4-5 pages to read before the last lynch,

But I hesitate to be too suspicious of this because, while it seems to express possible scum sentiments, I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where a scum player would decide to actually express this view in the thread (we can get into WIFOM if we want, but I don't want to), and I can almost see the sentiment behind what she's saying.
Neutral with a slight town read on Hedgeowl.

next is Long Con and, while I've not really done an in-depth look at his posts yet, I feel like he's a case that deserves a more specified focus, so I'll skip him for now and move on to MM.

Metalmarsh89
This has been a much quieter Metalmarsh than I would have expected, but he's been involved in the RYM game (now ended) and also apparently ditched us for a sweet camping trip, so that can account for his lowered participation through the beginning stages of this game. The most noteworthy aspect of his game thus far has been his singular focus (in his votes, at least) on Long Con. I have gathered in my brief time here that MM is a player who's not afraid to do atypical things with his votes, and the way he's voted LC without batting an eye every day so far is in line with this meta. However, it's impossible for me not to consider that this is just an odd scum gambit intended to misdirect suspicions or something.
His observation about Tiny Bubbles and Long Con isn't a bad one, but it raises some alarms for me anyway. It seems to suggest that he was on the lookout for players who might possibly be on a scum team together and, in a game with multiple scum factions, I feel like a scum player would be more inclined to take this approach when trying to catch the other team, as theere approach would be more geared toward specifically finding a team rather than searching for any and all scums individually.

I do not know what to make of this post right now:

Spoiler: show

Long Con says this recently today. Long Con has not mentioned or interacted with TinyBubbles all game. However, he suddenly states he's seeing her as fishy, but convinces himself otherwise all in the same post.

Trimmed it, but MM's comment about Tiny and LC makes some sense. Tiny has pretty much no input into this game, but managed to defend LC AND jump on my initial Cobalt vote which had been, at the time, based on an erroneous read of his post history. And Long Con managed to pseudo-suspect Tiny without committing to it in a meaningful way. Very interesting read, MM.

What exactly is wrong with my post about Tiny? As I recall, I was posting and thinking at the same time, and my opinion shifted as I went through. It was typed as I thought, with some pauses and brb's as I was doing it, but I left it "as-is" because it represented my real thought process at the time.

Why are you (or anyone) suspicious of my post?

I am amazed at how many people have actually picked up on that case considering how well you defended it.

But voting for you is fun.

What does it mean when you say you think LC defended himself well, Metalmarsh? How does that change your theory about the Bubbles/LC partnership? And why are you still voting for LC?
I'd probably put Metalmarsh on the slightly scummy side of my rainbow right now.

[Bubbles]

put a vote on myself... cause it's probably gonna go that way anyway and honestly i am not really enjoying this game anymore. i'm civ though, you'll discover that as soon as i'm lynched.

[Sloonei]

put a vote on myself... cause it's probably gonna go that way anyway and honestly i am not really enjoying this game anymore. i'm civ though, you'll discover that as soon as i'm lynched.

why are you not enjoying it? should there be more balloons? i encourage you to change your vote

[Golden]

put a vote on myself... cause it's probably gonna go that way anyway and honestly i am not really enjoying this game anymore. i'm civ though, you'll discover that as soon as i'm lynched.

I'm enjoying having you here!!!

[Golden]

I don't recognise myself with that avatar. Where is my golden one!

[Sloonei]

And now because i'm getting tired of doing all this reading i'm going to skip ahead to the two people who I'm most seriously considering for my vote today (sig and gamerguy/g-man) so that I can come closer to making a decision.

sig
My earlier case against sig can be found here and I still stand by it. His response did nothing to ease my suspicion, and I particularly thought his defense of his TinyBubbles suspicion (and the way he flat out ignored my point about how waffley all his early reads were) looked like scum backed up in a corner.
His behavior around the deadline on Day 1 also caught my attention, as I explained in this post.

At long last, here's my response to his responses to some earlier posts I promised a response to:

Spoiler: show

What about SVS's self-vote was "fishy" enough to make you choose her instead of Cobalt?
What do you mean by "independents counting as civilians", and why would that have any bearing on your read of Cobalt?
I do not like your WIFOM at the end of that post either.

What does WIFOM mean?

So there are 17civlians 4 independents 3 mafia team A 4 mafia Team B, the mafia has to outnumber the town to win so that means only 3/2 town players left for a mafia win. This doesn't include independents if independents count as town there are 21 people and added four which is at least 4 additional phases. If independents count as Towns every independent killed is bad for the town and good for mafia, if we say Cobalt is mafia then switching to SVS who was an independent is bad for the town, if the independents don't count toward the town this wasn't bad for the town. So if SVS counts toward civilians then this was a bad lynch. Cobalt pushed this lynch if he is mafia then he knew SVS wasn't mafia thus switching to a town/independent.
Again already answered your first question here it is.

@ Sloonei I've played with someone who would always vote for themselves after to many people became suspicious I don't think it is a good mafia method but one person has in the past fooled me bydoing that and I've seen two others do the same, it is a mindgame which always makes me think they are mafia trying to make themselves seem like civilians.


@Scott okay I misunderstood, I was heavily leaning towards lynching Cobalt, but like I said I thought he was mafia last game and he was a civilian he usually has good reads so I was hesitant to lynch him when someone else was in my mind equally if not slightly more suspicious.

At this point I'm not sure what to think of Cobalt I still have him down as heavily suspicious, but i'm not going to go into day 2 voting for him. I want to see Cobalt offer opinions/suspicions on other players besides LC I don't like that he is tunneling LC, but I'm not sure if he is mafia or just very focused. Tunneling a player seems like a bad way for the mafia to act since when said player flips civilian the spot light is on them. However, if CObalt doesn't offer thoughts on other players and stops with the non caring about getting lynched I could support a Cobalt lynch. If he flips mafia we are good, if he flips town we are even better. Flipping town would lead me to believe his few earlier reads were right such as hi s LC tunneling, while flipping mafia would make LC more clean.

So as of right know he would be my number one.

A lot of this post feels like sig is backtracking to explain himself rather than being aggressive in his defense. His explanation of his SVS did and still does feel very weak, especially when considering the read he offers of Cobalt in this post. Let's break it down: "I'm not sure what to think of Cobalt", okay so he's got no read on Cobalt? "I still have him down as heavily suspicious", oh, so you do know what to think of him, good to know. "but i'm not going to go into day 2 voting for him." So being "heavily suspicious" of a player is not reason enough to vote for them, but a completely uninvolved player's past behavior is? I do not like this post from sig and it just makes me feel more confident in my current vote.

Spoiler: show

@Sloonei I have been fooled by one player and have seen three others try this, maybe it was bad to us past experience from other players, but in a close call that stood out to me, I won't say what I did was wrong it is a tactic I've seen mafia us.

You also make it sound like I'm the only person who wasn't sure who to vote for, this wasn't the case. I've already said these things and this is just rehashing.

Cobalt doesn't usually Tunnel or change votes the way he did, this is suspicious. He always has the confrontational if you lynch me it is your fault attitude. He will also argue as aggressively as he is.
The only big difference I'm seeing is the vote switch without good reasoning and the extreme tunneling of LC he will tunnel some, but not this much his other behavior is the same.

@TIny you mentioned earlier that you would make a post about your thoughts, when you do this please included your views of Cobalt, and LC

In this post he continues to be inconsistent in his views on Cobalt. Just before he was "heavily suspicious", but now there isn't much of a difference between this Cobalt and usual Cobalt. The second bit, where he seems to be trying to turn my accusation around against me also feels like an opportunistic misrepresentation of my case. I don't think I've ever accused sig of being suspicious because he was unsure who to vote for. It was his specific behavior and the shakiness of his actions around the Day 1 deadline.
It's worth noting that on Day 2 he's right back on the Cobalt wagon.

Spoiler: show

I don't have much to add at this point, but two things are sticking out to me right know, who is or were is BirdwithTeeth11, DREAM, and Neverwhere have they postd at all or did they sub in?
The second thing is why did TB vote for LC?

I can see the case against Black Rock, but I would like to see how the night plays out before talking about any other players. I will spend tomorrow looking over the top suspicious people and form some opinions and questions for them that I will post either late night 2 or day 3.

One thing I noticed LC list and I disagree I don't find Sloonie suspicious I think his questioning is that of a good civilian even if he finds me suspicious.

LC why is SLooni mafia read to you?
Sloonie why are you lynching Black Rock if you could give me a summery at some point that would be appreciated.

I might be getting tunnel vision now, but I can't not see this post as scummy either. sig expresses light support of the Black Rock case soon after it first comes up, which I see again as an opportunistic scum trying to support the lynch of an established suspect. He also makes some easy observations about the quiet players and, interestingly, calls me a town read. I'd like to hear more about why I'm suddenly a good civilian in sig's eyes. Could he be trying to buddy up with me now that I'm on to him?

I've been getting the vibe all game long that sig seems to be posting just enough to avoid being a lurker, but not enough to be heavily involved in anything, which is one of the most definitively scummy things a player can do.

After this ISO, I feel much better about my sig vote than I did before and barring something extraordinary in gamerguy's posts, I'll be leaving it there for the time being.

[Scotty]

Spoiler: show

And now because i'm getting tired of doing all this reading i'm going to skip ahead to the two people who I'm most seriously considering for my vote today (sig and gamerguy/g-man) so that I can come closer to making a decision.

sig
My earlier case against sig can be found here and I still stand by it. His response did nothing to ease my suspicion, and I particularly thought his defense of his TinyBubbles suspicion (and the way he flat out ignored my point about how waffley all his early reads were) looked like scum backed up in a corner.
His behavior around the deadline on Day 1 also caught my attention, as I explained in this post.

At long last, here's my response to his responses to some earlier posts I promised a response to:

Spoiler: show

What about SVS's self-vote was "fishy" enough to make you choose her instead of Cobalt?
What do you mean by "independents counting as civilians", and why would that have any bearing on your read of Cobalt?
I do not like your WIFOM at the end of that post either.

What does WIFOM mean?

So there are 17civlians 4 independents 3 mafia team A 4 mafia Team B, the mafia has to outnumber the town to win so that means only 3/2 town players left for a mafia win. This doesn't include independents if independents count as town there are 21 people and added four which is at least 4 additional phases. If independents count as Towns every independent killed is bad for the town and good for mafia, if we say Cobalt is mafia then switching to SVS who was an independent is bad for the town, if the independents don't count toward the town this wasn't bad for the town. So if SVS counts toward civilians then this was a bad lynch. Cobalt pushed this lynch if he is mafia then he knew SVS wasn't mafia thus switching to a town/independent.
Again already answered your first question here it is.

@ Sloonei I've played with someone who would always vote for themselves after to many people became suspicious I don't think it is a good mafia method but one person has in the past fooled me bydoing that and I've seen two others do the same, it is a mindgame which always makes me think they are mafia trying to make themselves seem like civilians.


@Scott okay I misunderstood, I was heavily leaning towards lynching Cobalt, but like I said I thought he was mafia last game and he was a civilian he usually has good reads so I was hesitant to lynch him when someone else was in my mind equally if not slightly more suspicious.

At this point I'm not sure what to think of Cobalt I still have him down as heavily suspicious, but i'm not going to go into day 2 voting for him. I want to see Cobalt offer opinions/suspicions on other players besides LC I don't like that he is tunneling LC, but I'm not sure if he is mafia or just very focused. Tunneling a player seems like a bad way for the mafia to act since when said player flips civilian the spot light is on them. However, if CObalt doesn't offer thoughts on other players and stops with the non caring about getting lynched I could support a Cobalt lynch. If he flips mafia we are good, if he flips town we are even better. Flipping town would lead me to believe his few earlier reads were right such as hi s LC tunneling, while flipping mafia would make LC more clean.

So as of right know he would be my number one.

A lot of this post feels like sig is backtracking to explain himself rather than being aggressive in his defense. His explanation of his SVS did and still does feel very weak, especially when considering the read he offers of Cobalt in this post. Let's break it down: "I'm not sure what to think of Cobalt", okay so he's got no read on Cobalt? "I still have him down as heavily suspicious", oh, so you do know what to think of him, good to know. "but i'm not going to go into day 2 voting for him." So being "heavily suspicious" of a player is not reason enough to vote for them, but a completely uninvolved player's past behavior is? I do not like this post from sig and it just makes me feel more confident in my current vote.

Spoiler: show

@Sloonei I have been fooled by one player and have seen three others try this, maybe it was bad to us past experience from other players, but in a close call that stood out to me, I won't say what I did was wrong it is a tactic I've seen mafia us.

You also make it sound like I'm the only person who wasn't sure who to vote for, this wasn't the case. I've already said these things and this is just rehashing.

Cobalt doesn't usually Tunnel or change votes the way he did, this is suspicious. He always has the confrontational if you lynch me it is your fault attitude. He will also argue as aggressively as he is.
The only big difference I'm seeing is the vote switch without good reasoning and the extreme tunneling of LC he will tunnel some, but not this much his other behavior is the same.

@TIny you mentioned earlier that you would make a post about your thoughts, when you do this please included your views of Cobalt, and LC

In this post he continues to be inconsistent in his views on Cobalt. Just before he was "heavily suspicious", but now there isn't much of a difference between this Cobalt and usual Cobalt. The second bit, where he seems to be trying to turn my accusation around against me also feels like an opportunistic misrepresentation of my case. I don't think I've ever accused sig of being suspicious because he was unsure who to vote for. It was his specific behavior and the shakiness of his actions around the Day 1 deadline.
It's worth noting that on Day 2 he's right back on the Cobalt wagon.

Spoiler: show

I don't have much to add at this point, but two things are sticking out to me right know, who is or were is BirdwithTeeth11, DREAM, and Neverwhere have they postd at all or did they sub in?
The second thing is why did TB vote for LC?

I can see the case against Black Rock, but I would like to see how the night plays out before talking about any other players. I will spend tomorrow looking over the top suspicious people and form some opinions and questions for them that I will post either late night 2 or day 3.

One thing I noticed LC list and I disagree I don't find Sloonie suspicious I think his questioning is that of a good civilian even if he finds me suspicious.

LC why is SLooni mafia read to you?
Sloonie why are you lynching Black Rock if you could give me a summery at some point that would be appreciated.

I might be getting tunnel vision now, but I can't not see this post as scummy either. sig expresses light support of the Black Rock case soon after it first comes up, which I see again as an opportunistic scum trying to support the lynch of an established suspect. He also makes some easy observations about the quiet players and, interestingly, calls me a town read. I'd like to hear more about why I'm suddenly a good civilian in sig's eyes. Could he be trying to buddy up with me now that I'm on to him?

I've been getting the vibe all game long that sig seems to be posting just enough to avoid being a lurker, but not enough to be heavily involved in anything, which is one of the most definitively scummy things a player can do.

After this ISO, I feel much better about my sig vote than I did before and barring something extraordinary in gamerguy's posts, I'll be leaving it there for the time being.

Thank you for reaffirming my suspicions. I'd gladly change my vote from TB to sig if we can get more people on board. Still want to know what other people think of sig as well.

[Long Con]

I think G-Man and LC are a team.

Why?

What suspicions do you (and this is a universal "you", not just a Golden "you") have that are NOT in any way linked to LC?

That would be nice. Now I'm Cobalt's teammate, TGG-Man's teammate, TinyBubbles' teammate, and sig's teammate. Spoiler alert: I'm not anyone's teammate. Stop sticking me on a team with your latest suspicion, and stop bringing up my name with no actual case. My name has been brought up enough, and I've got a cheerleader squad of people already who are voting me for no real reason.

Can I ask ourHOST why G-Man is able to be voted for? I was off limits for the day I subbed in....

I think it's because you subbed in during the day, and G-Man subbed in at the start of the day, but I'm just guessing.

Thanks, Host! :P

WHO'S G-Man's teammate?

I had to go back and find a reason why you would put a "placeholder" vote on me.

Is this the reason why?

The reason the post wasn't submitted was after 24 hours sitting in linkitis my internet crapped out and I lost the post. Otherwise, like you said it is my early game and if that's how you feel you should be more on the fence. Do I have it all wrong here?

I've got a small handful of names I'm interested in today - you, Bubbles, Long Con, G-Man, Cobalt - all of whom have a few things going against them but nothing supa-solid. As of this moment, a vote sitting on you is as good as on any of them, imo. Plus, votes placed = more reactions = more to chew on.

What do I have going against me, in your own words?

I never replied to LC about that. @LC, I just don't like the interaction between the two of you (you and Bubbles). I've explained why in previous posts. Unlike some other people, though, I feel like there is a bit more of a vibe against Bubbles than you.

You've explained why, so I'll go back through your posts and compile it for myself.

Here you don't like my placement of Tiny above Cobalt in my suspect list. This surprises you, why? Where have I ever said Cobalt was my top suspect? The entire thing with me and Cobalt is from Cobalt. It's not a "feud", it's him coming after me with a vendetta. I've read a few people making assumptions about my level of suspicion against Cobalt, and you are one of the offenders.

Here you talk about Tiny voting for me after I said I had put my affairs in order (which was what we call a 'joke' where I come from). So you're going with the assumption that I (and my teammate Tiny) gained the knowledge at that point that I would be surviving, and so then Tiny went for a distancing vote against me. Problem: If Tiny were my teammate, then we would have known all along that I could stop the lynch, so why would the timing of that distancing vote factor in at all? You were very adamant in this post about the timing of things, why?

Here, you call my post about Tiny a "pseudo-suspicion". Why? My post about Tiny was an analysis of Tiny from my point of view. I'm sorry it wasn't an open-and-shut case that you could read and then know for sure what Tiny's alignment is, it was just me thinking out loud about Tiny. You need to qualify "pseudo-suspicion" because you do my post wrong to call it that.

That's all I could find, so I'll summarize your suspicion for myself, and for you: You suspect that TinyBubbles and I are teammates because: my post about Tiny was fraudulent somehow, Tiny voted for me AFTER I said my affairs were in order, and because I suspect Tiny more than I do Cobalt.

[nijuukyugou]

I gotta stop doing this to myself. But moving takes so. Much. Time. Here we go.

So I've tabbed quotes from people that I agree with and/or find interesting (I'll make it clear what I think about them as I go). Sometimes I'm sad I wasn't there in real time to respond, but thems the breaks. I'll also comment on general things that have been discussed.

Coablt's discussion has been totally about role descriptions.... you can choose to believe or disbelieve him.

You obviously have the final say on this, Dom, so I'll move along. I'll just say that I don't like his play, and that if he is a civ, his actions have more likely hurt than helped the cause, imo.

I agree so, so much with this and with your longer post from before. I still think Cobalt is baddie bad bad, but in the offchance in my mind that he is civ, he is NOT playing a very civ-friendly game. His insanified posts are rather amusing, though.

I enjoyed the G-Man pictures (might be because I saw a few of them in Economics but wasn't actually in the game). In fact, I seem to enjoy reading G-Man's posts regardless, especially knowing his identity as Balaam (he humored my request for more ass jokes ). I hope you keep some of your pictures! But speaking of G-Man (or another of his former alter-ego players),

So I went back to look at timing.

Epi dies. Epi replaces in. Epi has (I think) only two posts - one where he says 'I know who killed me' and one where he says 'my suspicions haven't changed'. Then TGG asks to be subbed out.

I honestly think it's very consistent with someone who was part of a team that killed epi, that they killed them for cause, and was upset when he was able to sub back in and express the particular sentiments that he did. I think G-Man and LC are a team. I feel less sure that bubbles is, but she definitely could be.

Does it suck that someone subbing out on a matter of principle could sink a team? Yes. But this is why you should always keep your cool in mafia. I guarantee you, when people complain about things being unfair in this game, it's almost always mafia. Because they perceive it has harmed their chances. I don't think Epi's views necessarily held great weight, and I think the reaction to him subbing back in provides a whole lot more information about how important they believed killing epi to be.

This is a fascinating analysis and, since Epi seems to be silenced and absent, dare I say interesting thought process. I like the ideas posed here (about TGG perhaps getting frustrated and mafia getting frustrated in general). It's a bit of a stretch but entirely possible. However, I'd like to give G-Man the BOTD for today at least since he's a totally different player than TGG. We'll see how it goes.

I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??

Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

As for suspicions beyond Cobalt, I'm still game for LC (it's been a while and I got super distracted by Cobalt, but I liked and agreed with Epi's suspicion and analysis Day 1). TB (I don't really like calling her that, because it looks like tuberculosis so let's go with TBubbles instead) is an enigma but I'm getting some weird vibes. I keep flip-flopping on how I feel about her, TBH. One moment I was just about to post how I felt she was weird for voting LC instead of Cobalt because she thought the "bandwagon was scummy," and then I re-read that and think, "Oh wait, that's actually logical." So maybe it's just a vibe thing (I'm using that word a lot this game, I notice), although my gut is usually pretty good in mafia. I suppose I should say I have mixed feelings about ol' TBubbles - I feel bad if she's civ and she's feeling so frustrated with this game that she's self-voted, but on the other hand she's been saying "I'm civ! I'm civ!" the entire game without giving us any other reason to believe it beyond that. Plus I don't care for self-votes. But TBubbles, I hope you're not too frustrated, and I'm sorry you're not having much fun - I hope you stay and know that suspicion is nothing personal! Also, nutella seems a lot more serious and a little more biting in this game than I remember, and I'm pretty sure she's been civ in the other games I've played. So there's that. I'll probably give her another good look. Hope you had fun with Blooper stream-of-consciousness hour (and by that I mean I apologize for any discomfort it may have caused). Any questions before we move on?

Effective immediately, Metalmarsh89 has replaced Metalmarsh89. As a result, Metalmarsh89 cannot be lynched today.

I laughed out loud at this for real

I don't recognise myself with that avatar. Where is my golden one!

You and me both, buddy. I keep looking for Blooper to see my last post on a page and it's confusing as fuck.

[Sloonei]

Gamerguy/G-Man
I first expressed suspicion of Gamerguy for what I perceived as him making excuses for himself not to participate in the game's earlygoing in this post. I continued to get the same vibe when he responded with these posts.

By my view, this is the only post where he doesn't mention any excuse not to post:

Spoiler: show

I seen that Bass asked me if I think SVS is acting any different. As far as I can see, I don't think so. But she was the second Mafia to die in bible Mafia so my memory on her playstyle is a little fuzzy. Plus I've only played one game here, so I don't know the differences between Mafia SVS and civ SVS, so my take on her in regards to that is unreliable. I've only seen her one light previously.

It's not a very strong post, all it amounts to is him saying "i don't know how to read SVS". Not encouraging.
The internet connection thing, while probably legitimate, also felt like he was letting it dominate his posts. Rather than getting online to make posts when he could, he seemed solely to be coming online to remind us that he was having trouble getting online. As such, there's very little actual content in his posts, which is a big check mark against him. Golden's theory about why he really wanted to sub out is a factor, but not a dominating one, in my suspicion.

Now for G-Man's posts.

Spoiler: show

Apologies for wrecking the fun, but if you're going to play with new people you have to know that if you play an odd game you are going to be scrutinised.

I can tolerate your Bigsimpsin approach to the game, as it has become quite common on other forums it seems. Too bad you can't tolerate a little silliness instead of shrieking at it like an intruder.

For the record, I was not following the thread prior to being replaced and I have no intention of reading through what happened prior to my replacing of Gamer Guy.



I'm taking in what has happened since I joined the game and will proceed from there. I understand that some of you may not like this decision but know this:

to read 30+ pages of paranoia, angst, and bickering.

I won't fault g-man for not wanting to read through everything that happened before he joined in, but it would have been nice to see him at least make some effort to get familiar with some background before engaging himself in the game, and I can't help but see this as a potential scum player taking the easy way out.

His switch to text posts (lol, by the way. g-man's performance in the Economics game is one of my all-time favorite mafia things) looks a bit like a defeated scum player who doesn't want to draw any more suspicion on himself. I feel like town G-man might have kept the picture shtick up a little bit longer to gauge reactions and such. But, as he is (hypothetically) scum, all the negative attention was the last thing he wanted and so he needed to change gears (this was what really cemented my suspicion of gamer-man, for the record).

Spoiler: show

Three things:

1) You guys realize that my first few picture posts were a joke, right? I've stopped doing it because I'm at least partially sane and said I'd never do it for a full game again at the end of Econ. Some of you keep commenting on it as if my words are still coming through as pictures. It's funny in a sad but cute kind of way.

2) I see that some people are interested in possibly lynching me today largely because of what Gamer Guy said/did. While that sucks for me, I can't really be offended without being phony. I get it but I'll try to read back through Gamer's posts and see if there is anything beyond the circumstances of his exit that I can speak to. I was not told anything about who I was replacing, just that I was replacing him.

3) Now that I'm home for the evening, I want to build my game spreadsheet. Can anyone tell me if the votes have been changeable at all before Day 3? That kind of matters for the way I analyze things.

3) caught my attention earlier. Hints at building a spreadsheet for the game, a not so subtle way to show off the effort he's about to put into this game without actually doing any work or indicating anything about reads or his own alignment. Essentially an empty statement.

I will feel bad for G-man if he turns out to be scum and I just got placed into an almost identical situation in the recently-ended David Bowie game on RYM, so I feel the pain, but there's nothing in his posts that makes me feel any better about him/gamer at all. I'd still say sig is my top suspect, but gamer is probably a comfortable #2 (i admittedly still don't know what to do with LC and Cobalt, but I don't really care at this point either).
My vote is on sig but if more people would prefer gamer/g-man, I can easily switch it to him.

[Sloonei]

I don't expect anyone to read all of my big casing posts, but I would really appreciate if people could take a look at those last two (sig and gamer/g-man) and share their thoughts as well. They're the two players who I'm most seriously considering for a lynch, and I obviously think they're very good suspects right now. If other people feel the same way, that'd be great.

any other thoughts about any of my reads are also welcome, of course

[Golden]

I'd prefer a g-man lynch, but I definitely understand the logic behind a sig lynch, and I think the various sig theories have been reasonably convincing.

Also, I have read all your casing posts, although there is a big difference between reading and really taking them in.

[Long Con]

Sloonei, that's a good post on sig. Also, sig seems to be phoning it in, as with his hop on the BR bandwagon, partly due to her "slip" that was already proven to not exist. In fact, I had already accused Neverwhere of being bad when she tried to get on the "slip" thing after it had already been disproven - sig's use of it in his supposed suspicions just looks that much worse.

sig is a much bigger suspicion for me at this point that Sloonei, so I'll put my vote there now.

*switches vote to sig*

(Just trying out a visually obvious vote-switch post for G-Man or anyone else who values this kind of info for their cases.)

[Golden]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

[Long Con]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

[nijuukyugou]

I don't expect anyone to read all of my big casing posts, but I would really appreciate if people could take a look at those last two (sig and gamer/g-man) and share their thoughts as well. They're the two players who I'm most seriously considering for a lynch, and I obviously think they're very good suspects right now. If other people feel the same way, that'd be great.

any other thoughts about any of my reads are also welcome, of course

I like your sig case. I tend to get lost in large games with so many people to keep track of, especially near the beginning, and I'd forgotten about him. He's been weirding me out with the wishy-washy votes and posts, too.

Can I ask ourHOST why G-Man is able to be voted for? I was off limits for the day I subbed in....

I think it's because you subbed in during the day, and G-Man subbed in at the start of the day, but I'm just guessing.

Thanks, Host! :P

WHO'S G-Man's teammate?

[Golden]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

[Long Con]

I don't expect anyone to read all of my big casing posts, but I would really appreciate if people could take a look at those last two (sig and gamer/g-man) and share their thoughts as well. They're the two players who I'm most seriously considering for a lynch, and I obviously think they're very good suspects right now. If other people feel the same way, that'd be great.

any other thoughts about any of my reads are also welcome, of course

I like your sig case. I tend to get lost in large games with so many people to keep track of, especially near the beginning, and I'd forgotten about him. He's been weirding me out with the wishy-washy votes and posts, too.

Can I ask ourHOST why G-Man is able to be voted for? I was off limits for the day I subbed in....

I think it's because you subbed in during the day, and G-Man subbed in at the start of the day, but I'm just guessing.

Thanks, Host! :P

WHO'S G-Man's teammate?

[Long Con]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

You didn't answer me yet as to why you are connecting us at all?

[Sloonei]

TinyBubbles come back here and unvote yourself! please

[Long Con]

Oh! And I think Epi is silenced.

[Sloonei]

Oh! And I think Epi is silenced.

that would explain why he's been silent all day.
somehow i'd failed to notice that.

[Scotty]

I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??

Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

Cool! It's all good, I know I can zone out from time to time as well. As was said by someone else, I respect the thought put into Sloonei's casing posts, but I will not fully absorb them all until I can get a better perspective on bad/good in the next few days. Rest assured i'll be referencing his list as we go on.

While I have you, did you receive a PM at the end of Day 0? Something probably titled "Day 0 results"? If so, can you post (without quoting or disregarding Dom's rules) some highlights of your PM? I'm quite anxious and beginning to wonder if that 3rd row even received one.

[Golden]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

You didn't answer me yet as to why you are connecting us at all?

I haven't specifically answered your most recent post, but I have set out my reasons fairly clearly before that.

[Scotty]

Oh! And I think Epi is silenced.

What does that mean? Is that a role power you think?

[Long Con]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

You didn't answer me yet as to why you are connecting us at all?

I haven't specifically answered your most recent post, but I have set out my reasons fairly clearly before that.

Ok, no prob, I just went through all of Timmer's posts to get my own answers, now I'll go through yours. You just chill, I'll rejoin this conversation after.

[Long Con]

Oh! And I think Epi is silenced.

What does that mean? Is that a role power you think?

Yes, that is my theory.

[Golden]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

You didn't answer me yet as to why you are connecting us at all?

I haven't specifically answered your most recent post, but I have set out my reasons fairly clearly before that.

Ok, no prob, I just went through all of Timmer's posts to get my own answers, now I'll go through yours. You just chill, I'll rejoin this conversation after.

No problems.

For what it's worth, I have a theory about you being bad that has nothing to do with any of your actions or things you've said in the thread. You would be quite literally collateral damage in this theory. I have no desire to vote you first or join a bandwagon on you. I'd sooner vote others who I legitimately think are bad to try and figure out if my theories could be correct, and only vote you if I think they've proven to be correct.

[nijuukyugou]

I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??

Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

Cool! It's all good, I know I can zone out from time to time as well. As was said by someone else, I respect the thought put into Sloonei's casing posts, but I will not fully absorb them all until I can get a better perspective on bad/good in the next few days. Rest assured i'll be referencing his list as we go on.

While I have you, did you receive a PM at the end of Day 0? Something probably titled "Day 0 results"? If so, can you post (without quoting or disregarding Dom's rules) some highlights of your PM? I'm quite anxious and beginning to wonder if that 3rd row even received one.

Indeed. Give me a moment.

[Golden]

I didn't notice epi was silenced either.

Guess his input just wasn't being missed

[nijuukyugou]

I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??

Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

Cool! It's all good, I know I can zone out from time to time as well. As was said by someone else, I respect the thought put into Sloonei's casing posts, but I will not fully absorb them all until I can get a better perspective on bad/good in the next few days. Rest assured i'll be referencing his list as we go on.

While I have you, did you receive a PM at the end of Day 0? Something probably titled "Day 0 results"? If so, can you post (without quoting or disregarding Dom's rules) some highlights of your PM? I'm quite anxious and beginning to wonder if that 3rd row even received one.

Indeed. Give me a moment.

Okay. I thought I would decode it, but my eyes are too tired. However, it seems to be a jumble of a protection/role-check role regarding the police. I will try to look into its actual wording and attempt better decoding tomorrow, but that should add something to the list!

[Sloonei]

I have read all your casing posts

[Golden]

Blooper, none of us can decode them. Providing the keywords so we can figure out if yours is the same or different is the best I think we can do right now.

[Scotty]

Hey, it's a start! Thanks for affirming that it exists! I'm like a kid in a candy store with this shit. Can't wait to hear more key words you can pick out tomorrow!

[Long Con]

Now I definitely prefer to stay on G-Man.

Why, because you think he's my teammate?

Because I think lynching him is more likely to tell me your affiliation than lynching sig.

You didn't answer me yet as to why you are connecting us at all?

I haven't specifically answered your most recent post, but I have set out my reasons fairly clearly before that.

Ok, no prob, I just went through all of Timmer's posts to get my own answers, now I'll go through yours. You just chill, I'll rejoin this conversation after.

No problems.

For what it's worth, I have a theory about you being bad that has nothing to do with any of your actions or things you've said in the thread. You would be quite literally collateral damage in this theory. I have no desire to vote you first or join a bandwagon on you. I'd sooner vote others who I legitimately think are bad to try and figure out if my theories could be correct, and only vote you if I think they've proven to be correct.

"For what it's worth"? It's simultaneously worthless (because it's wrong) and worth everything to me. Why is my name even jammed in among your real suspicions at all?

Here, you think TGG and I are teammates because he was upset that Epi subbed in. I think the unspoken implication is that I killed Epi? But you have never said that out loud, so it's completely unclear why you even have my name in this post.

Here again I'm not suspicious to you, but you jam my name in there with your suspicions anyway.

And those two posts are literally the only things you've said about the Long Con-G-Man connection that you're on about now. You said that you set out your reasons "fairly clearly" why you are accusing me of being G-Man's baddie teammate, but you didn't. Unless it happened back in Day 1, because I stopped reading your posts when it got back that far - I don't believe you had any early TGG-LC connection posts, did you? You've been extra-sweet in your support of me all game until this stuff came up.

So... what gives? It was not the truth that you had clearly laid out why you think G-Man and I are teammates. I don't want to call you a liar here, but how would you explain for the thread this discrepancy between the facts and the things you are saying? Why did you make me waste my time going through your posts for something that wasn't there?! It's frikkin' midnight here, next time I ask, give me a straight answer and don't tell me to go look for it.

[nijuukyugou]

Blooper, none of us can decode them. Providing the keywords so we can figure out if yours is the same or different is the best I think we can do right now.

You underestimate me and by that I mean you make me feel better about feeling pretty dumb for a few minutes

[nutella]

If only anyone actually read my posts I did in fact discuss my PM when they were being discussed at first, and that it involved protection and a role check and yes it does seem to be the same as Niju's.


I do suspect sig, am going to more carefully re-read sloonei's case to confirm that I agree and then I might switch my vote (doesn't look like Bass is that likely of a candidate at this point)

[Scotty]

My pm had something about protecting on odd nights, and something about checking other players.

Wow ok, sorry I totally missed this buried way back when. Wish you had brought it up again sooner!

can you expand on that? Were there any words that didn't repeat anywhere so maybe we can start deducing what role this belongs to? did it say the word police? capitalized, like the band, maybe?

[Golden]

I don't believe some of the bullshit that has gone down in this game.

So... what gives? It was not the truth that you had clearly laid out why you think G-Man and I are teammates. I don't want to call you a liar here, but how would you explain for the thread this discrepancy between the facts and the things you are saying? Why did you make me waste my time going through your posts for something that wasn't there?! It's frikkin' midnight here, next time I ask, give me a straight answer and don't tell me to go look for it.

I don't even...

[Long Con]

I don't believe some of the bullshit that has gone down in this game.

So... what gives? It was not the truth that you had clearly laid out why you think G-Man and I are teammates. I don't want to call you a liar here, but how would you explain for the thread this discrepancy between the facts and the things you are saying? Why did you make me waste my time going through your posts for something that wasn't there?! It's frikkin' midnight here, next time I ask, give me a straight answer and don't tell me to go look for it.

I don't even...

What do you mean?

[Golden]

Just because I am a high poster does not mean I have time to do your work for you.

If you refuse to read the thread through and in context, don't expect me to jump at your command to explain myself further. And definitely don't expect me to look fondly on the kind of posts I've been getting this game... that I'm 'full of shit', that I'm 'making you waste your time' etc. They don't move me at all.

LC, you know what would have been easy, if you were civ? Just saying 'I've read your posts back, it isn't clear to me, mind setting it out more clearly'? Yeah, that's what I think you would have done as civ. This move to discredit me is something I can only describe as bullshit.

[Scotty]

My first instinct on decoding that PM is that it's West Side Story, if "police" really is a word used. Of all the shows, that's the only show with a prominent use of the police. Officer Krupke is a bumbling patsy trying to keep the kids straight. Protecting on odd nights and role checking every night??

Now I really hope Epi 1.0 wasn't West Side and Dom's song lyrics were just flavor text...

[Golden]

But, since you want me to be more expressly clear than I've apparently been (although plenty of other people have clearly understood me) - yes, I suspect you are bad because I suspect TGG is bad because I suspect he quit after epi subbed in because I suspect his team killed epi because epi was on to YOU. Epi was only calling out you and SVS, and SVS isn't the one who was on mafia one.

[Long Con]

Well, when you're someone I suspect, and you suddenly start linking me with people and calling us baddie teammates, without a shred of explanation why... what do you expect?

You are lying about it, if you think I am just not understanding, then I am open to enlightenment on the subject. It's kind of why I asked you in the first place, you already had your chance to give a quick sentence of recap why. Instead, you used that post to tell me you've already made it very clear why. So I went and looked, and I can't see it. Correct me.

Linki: you made this like pulling teeth, not me. Thank you for answering, it was really not nearly as clear in the thread as it was in your mind. I love you Golden, and I know that you feel the same even though I riled you up a bit. I didn't kill Epi, and Cobalt was another person on his suspect list besides S~V~S and myself, if I'm not mistaken.

[Golden]

*voting LC*

Sometimes, people turn me around with a single post.

There is no way I believe a civilian LC makes that post.

[Long Con]

You would rather give a big No U than address the discrepancies in your own posts. I'm sorry, you made me go and look through your posts, I'm going to move forward from that effort if I'm going to bother doing it. What am I supposed to think when there's nothing? This is is not a rhetorical question!

You're the one who's a baddie here Golden, not me. Go ahead and get me lynched, you have a crew already there with a primed LC bandwagon. And after that's done, I really hope people will start seeing you.

*switch vote to Golden*

[Long Con]

And when Golden turns up bad, I would start casting votes right on G-Man as well.

[Golden]

Correct me.

Here is the thing. I inevitably will. I'll inevitably trawl back through my posts, stepping you through what happened piece by piece. I always do. It's what I do. Doing your work for you.

I started it before, but I just cba right now.

For someone who supposedly suspects me, you seemed pretty happy I survived the NK.

[Golden]

Lol, I don't believe it. The guy who has defended you all game has a 'crew primed for an LC bandwagon'

[Golden]

btw, it's pretty funny that you say it's ME doing the no u.