[Endgame] Masters of the Universe Mafia

#4051

Oh, and there's IMC. Forgot about him.

#4052

flying' high wrote:We ruled out AceofSpaces because the Horde tried to kill him early on in the game so we figure unless that was a bluff then Aces isn't a threat.

He'd have to be a snake now, so he's not really ruled out at all. Unless I've missed something?

#4053

Okay, I went back and looked at all of the voting orders, on Day 3 Aces was one of the 7 people to vote for He-Man (Tri-Klops, Snake Mountain).

Day 3 Voting Order:
1. thellama (Kate)
2. MovingPictures (DharmaHelper)
3. Vompatti (Snow Dog)
4. DisgruntledPorcupine (Timmer)
5. He-Man (DharmaHelper)
6. Spaghetti (He-Man)
7. The-untamed (DharmaHelper)
8. birdwithteeth (Kate)
9. Russtifinko (DharmaHelper)
10. Spacedaisy (Timmer)
11. AceofSpaces (He-Man)
12. Elohcin (birdwithteeth)
13. Kate (Timmer)
14. indiglo (He-Man)
15. LittleTiger (He-Man)
16. DharmaHelper (He-Man)
17. blindfaeth (DharmaHelper)
18. DFaraday (birdwithteeth)
19. Juliets (He-Man)
20. Snow Dog (He-Man)
Didn’t vote: AllAlongtheBoardwalk, Dom, Flyin’ High, Ishar Morrad Chuain, orsonkidd, reywaS, JJLehto/Stormcrow, Timmer

He-Man wasn't lynched that day, but I don't remember the details at all because that occurred so long ago. Aces was absent for the next 4 lynches. Then after that he was pretty much on board with the civvies in the subsequent lynches. That doesn't 100% clear him, but it's evidence of him voting against a Snake Mountain member...

He was absent for the reywaS lynch. He says he was silenced.

I went to look at the win conditions and couldn't find them. Are they not posted? Maybe we've asked this before and I just don't remember.

@Epignosis: What are the win conditions for this game?

I really hope we haven't been giving Timmer a pass this entire game only to find out the civvies can't win with him (assuming he's the role we all think he is).

#4054

Yeah, I am not Snake mountain. Not sure why anyone would think I was.

Voting to hear the tale of the traitor.

#4055

timmer wrote:So I see no point in not sharing the information i got from choosing "skull".

There is only one snake Mountain player left, and four Horde.

Finally found this post I was looking for! At this point, rey was still alive (this post was made Day 11 (viewtopic.php?p=11962#p11962) and logically was the last Snake Mountain which fits with what we've been thinking for so long. We found the 4 Horde: MP, spaghetti, Stormcrow, and DP.

So either Timmer got false information, he lied, or there are no Snake Mountain or Horde left meaning we have to lynch an indy?

I don't think Timmer could have gotten false info because everyone else's info turned out to be true.

I doubt Timmer lied...he's been very civvie-minded and helpful all game long. But if he didn't lie and his info was true, then we do have to lynch an indy? Which I think means Timmer?

This is very bothersome.

Timmer, can you comment on this?

#4056

I didn't lie, that's the information I got.

My only guess is that there was a recruitment at some point after that? Perhaps Shadow Weaver's secret was a recruitment? I don't know, I'm at a loss.

#4057

Flyin' High wrote:
@Epignosis: What are the win conditions for this game?

I did not post win conditions. Obviously the Eternians and Etherians must defeat Snake Mountain and the Horde. But there are others...everyone must be wise.

#4058

Flyin' High wrote:
But if he didn't lie and his info was true, then we do have to lynch an indy? Which I think means Timmer?
This is very bothersome.

Timmer, can you comment on this?

It's possible. Not knowing win conditions makes things very confusing, I have no idea what the answer is.

#4059

I've never played a game not knowing the win conditions...

timmer wrote:
Flyin' High wrote:
But if he didn't lie and his info was true, then we do have to lynch an indy? Which I think means Timmer?
This is very bothersome.

Timmer, can you comment on this?
It's possible. Not knowing win conditions makes things very confusing, I have no idea what the answer is.

So I guess we're looking at a recruit or an indy that we can't win with.

I don't want to start randomly lynching people.

#4060

#4061

Seriously? No win condition info?

Oh my.

#4062

ugh so do we think we need to lynch the indy or lynch a baddie/recruit??

fwiw I voted galaxy.

#4063

I'm voting the archer. I hate to say it, but I think maybe we have to lynch timmer tomorrow. Let's wait and see if there is a night kill, though, which may shed some light on the subject.

#4064

Oh, forgot to say my vote. I voted archer last night - I hope he doesn't tell any stories from the latest season though, cause I'm not done with it yet.

#4065

Okay, so the way I see it, either
a) timmer's info is good and he's telling the truth about it, in which case we have to lynch an indie
b) timmer is lying about his info, in which case we should lynch him before going after remaining baddies, since he is clearly not on our side or
c) timmer has bad info, but is telling the truth as he thinks it to be, in which case we should not lynch him.
I don't know which of these I think is more likely, so I will have to think about it.

#4066

I picked Traitor because if there is a traitor among us, maybe this will shed light on it.

#4067

TBH I don't think killing Zodac or the sorceress would be a necessary action for the civvies to take just based on the series, they were, in general, very helpful. I think maybe theres one baddie left or a recruit? Yes I agree that perhaps the night post will shed some light.

#4068

Stopping in to vote last minute. I chose Archer. That is what I was going to vote from the beginning and it still looks like a good pick.

#4069

Night 18: The Tale of the Archer

“Archers get a lot of ridicule from the infantry, because they do their work at a distance and don’t have to look the enemy in the eye. I laugh at that because the infantry depends on the missile troops to whittle down the workload!

“Anyhow, I once knew this archer who fancied a young woman in a neighboring village. I forget her name. Some scoundrels one night surrounded her village and ransacked it, and the hapless villagers fled in all directions, some to the forest and some to the mountains, and still others to the river.

“Well, this infatuated archer was furious. He called a host of warriors together, and told them that he was going off in search of the woman. The men beat their breasts and pledged their allegiance to the man’s cause.

“The devoted fellow spent eighteen months trawling the surrounding regions, sometimes two or three times in search of her. They did not find her, and eventually all the men forgot their allegiance and deserted the archer.

“Broken by despair and loneliness, the archer returned home to his village. He went to a tavern and ordered something that might quiet his aching mind. And who was there to serve him but the woman he had been searching for! She had taken refuge in his better-protected village after hers was overrun, and the impetuous young man never thought to seek her there.

“So if you ever find yourself in search of someone else, you might do well to start close to home!

“Although in my case, I wish I could lose that bloated harpy that dwells in my house!”

The mariner erupted into obscene laughter.

The cabin had become too stuffy, and the mariner’s pipe offended the eyes and noses of many of the people, so everyone went above deck for some fresh sea air.

An eerie red light peeked through the overcast sky.

“Does everyone see that?” thellama73 asked.

The mariner grumbled, “Looks like a bad omen. We’d best go back inside, all right.”

Everyone filed back in. Just as thellama73 turned his back, the red in the sky surged forward in a mighty bolt, striking him with an otherworldly fierceness. A collective cry flew up from the group.

For a long time, everyone thought thellama73 was dead. What they failed to see in the fresh darkness that reigned over them was a mighty shield he had slung over his shoulder, which hung about his back.

“Are you okay?” thellama73 heard.

“A bad omen indeed,” he replied.

There were two missing PMs.
It is now Day 19. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

#4070

Ha! Invincible, as usual.

#4071

So is there still a baddie who took a shot at thellama? Or was this triggered by the choice of story?

#4072

timmer wrote:So is there still a baddie who took a shot at thellama? Or was this triggered by the choice of story?

Come on, timmer, come clean. It was you,wasn't it?

"the red in the sky surged forward in a mighty bolt, striking him with an otherworldly fierceness."

Sounds like you to me. Stop trying to kill me, I don't like it!

#4073

thellama73 wrote:
timmer wrote:So is there still a baddie who took a shot at thellama? Or was this triggered by the choice of story?
Come on, timmer, come clean. It was you,wasn't it?

"the red in the sky surged forward in a mighty bolt, striking him with an otherworldly fierceness."

Sounds like you to me. Stop trying to kill me, I don't like it!

It wasn't me at all!

About the only hunch I have is our new player. He (she?) sounded pretty on the ball for someone who had to catch up on over 100 pages of game. I wouldn't be shocked if he (she?) had had btsc with DP before he died.

#4074

timmer wrote:About the only hunch I have is our new player. He (she?) sounded pretty on the ball for someone who had to catch up on over 100 pages of game. I wouldn't be shocked if he (she?) had had btsc with DP before he died.

He, and thanks :-)

I wish I had btsc with someone; instead I spent about 3 hours reading the comments-in-thread of everyone still alive (though that took way longer for some of you), and following up on everything you guys brought up when I asked earlier.

I don't have a way to judge how likely various win conditions are, since I haven't looked at any of Epi's past games in depth, so I have no real opinion about you, timmer (though I seem to inexplicably trust llama for reasons I prefer not to explain). I've been spending most of my effort trying to figure out who could still be a snake by tracing past relationships to DP. Haven't gotten anywhere useful with that yet, but I'm only halfway through the thread :-\

I'm a quick study, and I love complicated games.. but I am brand new. Surely our host wouldn't drop a completely new player into an insanely complicated and extended game as the only remaining baddie?

#4075

I have to work all day today. I'm pretty sure I'll be back before the poll ends, but I'm going to go ahead and vote now. For Timmer!

#4076

Ugh, I'm torn between the Nevinera whose posts contain lots of WIFOM of me statements like, "Surely our host wouldn't drop a completely new player into an insanely complicated and extended game as the only remaining baddie?" and Timmer who I am now worried doesn't fit with the civvie win conditions (whatever they may be).

#4077

Glad you were able to survive, llama.

I think the story of the archer may mean that the person we need to lynch is one the we trust, but shouldn't. Thoughts?

#4078

I'm not sure how anything I've said could be a "Wine in front of me" argument - could you clarify a bit? My point in the post you quoted was that being the sole baddie would be a stressful, complicated, and intricate position; I don't think something like that would make a very good intro into the game. I mean sure, he could have done that knowing that you would infer that I wasn't bad for this very reason (That *would* be a wifom argument), but that seems a bit thin to me.

I don't actually think that "Epi would ___" arguments are particularly useful, since he has access to a lot more information than we do, and we can't logically predict his actions in any way. My argument was really in response to posts by other people trying to suggest that my replacing the_untamed at such a late date might imply that he had a pivotal role.

I hadn't looked at my predecessors voting history before, but judging by his posts he didn't really have one.. or did he do some silent voting?

I'm actually having trouble figuring out how to defend myself logically without claiming to be anyone specific - I'm not really sure where the line is between logical explication and 'role hinting'. I wish I *did* have btsc with someone, I could really use some tactical advice here.

#4079

Elohcin wrote:Glad you were able to survive, llama.

I think the story of the archer may mean that the person we need to lynch is one the we trust, but shouldn't. Thoughts?

Oh, I hadn't thought of it as allegory. It might just be implying that there was a recruitment, and that none of our logic relying upon old behavior is sound.

#4080

Well, I'm not sure I'll be back before close, so I'm voting for timmer now.

#4081

well but we know that Zodac killed just the other night, is that indicative he tried to kill again?

#4082

I am voting for Timmer

#4083

Unfortunately I need to vote now. Based on the way I am reading the thing in the Archer's Tale (the sometimes to find something you're looking for, look close to home) I also read that as we need to find someone we trust. And at this point, since it does appear as if Zodac has begun killing, that person I trust is Timmer.

I really hope we're right that the civvies can't win with you, but it's a shame because I had been reading you as an ally this whole game. I also hope we're right that you're the last "baddie" we need to find.

*Votes Timmer*

#4084

I voted for Nevinera. It's the only logical option, from my pov. But I understand why you guys are doing this, and it's cool.

#4085

Voting Timmer. I have been back and forth on Timmer the whole game, really.

#4086

Day 19: The Easternmost Shore

The boat docked peacefully at the easternmost shore. Everyone thanked the mariner for his time and trouble.

“Good journey,” he told them.

But it was not a good journey. The necessity of killing came swiftly, and the mob was ready to kill timmer.

On the shore of the dark hemisphere, the party crept up on timmer, who was looking out at the Ocean of Gnarl. He was whistling. The tried to beat him with anything- their hands and clubs and swords and curses.

All blows bounced off of him, or rather, some field that protected him. And he kept whistling.

AceofSpaces started throwing up on the beach.

It is Night 19. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

#4087

I rather expected that we wouldn't be able to lynch timmer, the first time anyway. We must be able to get him somehow, though, if he ash to die for us to win. I guess we will see whether snake mountain has any kills left.

#4088

This is getting ridiculous.

#4089

Flyin' High wrote:This is getting ridiculous.

I'm starting to think this whole thing is just an experiment by Rob to see how long he can drag this out before people start revolting.

#4090

thellama73 wrote:I rather expected that we wouldn't be able to lynch timmer, the first time anyway. We must be able to get him somehow, though.

That's the thing. I don't think you can, which makes me all the more sure that there is a recruit.

#4091

Any idea why Ace of Spades would be throwing up on the beach?

#4092

Nevinera wrote:Any idea why Ace of Spades would be throwing up on the beach?

I was wondering the same thing. For Rob to write this, there must be meaning behind it.

#4093

I went to bed last night feeling really frustrated about the Timmer non-lynch. Not as much because I wish we'd been successful, but because it just didn't feel right to me that he's who we're looking for. Timmer really has been actively helping us this entire game and we've tried lynching him 3 times now since this game (I think that's right) to no success.

I think we need to be looking at Aces or Nevinera.

Aces throwing up on the beach is weird. Did he pick a tale? Maybe his tale made him feel ill? But that doesn't make much sense.

Gah, I just wish we had more to go on than simply guessing at this point.

#4094

Flyin' High wrote: I think we need to be looking at Aces or Nevinera.
Aces throwing up on the beach is weird. Did he pick a tale? Maybe his tale made him feel ill? But that doesn't make much sense.
Gah, I just wish we had more to go on than simply guessing at this point.

Well, if I'm following this right, we'll know whether or not a snake is still around tonight.. They aren't likely to forego a night kill just to mislead, are they?

At any rate, I feel safe for the evening; no baddie is going to kill the most suspected other player -.-

Do we have any guesses at what Zodac's win condition could be yet? Judging by the character descriptions I've read, it's unlikely to be 'survive until the end' - he had his own objectives in the series, and they didn't align with anyone else's.

#4095

Well, with the exception of the surprise death of Kate via Zodac recently, we haven't actually had a night kill in something like two or more weeks. I can't remember the last time the mafia nightkilled successfully. So it's really puzzling.

I just can't understand why Epignosis would suddenly replace the_untamed this late in the game if the role you now have isn't somehow important to the non-civvies. Because adding in one more active civvie just doesn't make much sense to me. And why the_untamed over IMC, another no show this game?

#4096

Flyin' High wrote:Well, with the exception of the surprise death of Kate via Zodac recently, we haven't actually had a night kill in something like two or more weeks. I can't remember the last time the mafia nightkilled successfully. So it's really puzzling.

I just can't understand why Epignosis would suddenly replace the_untamed this late in the game if the role you now have isn't somehow important to the non-civvies. Because adding in one more active civvie just doesn't make much sense to me. And why the_untamed over IMC, another no show this game?

Yes. Why would Epig replace untamed over IMC? My only thought would be that he was trying to balance the game out a little better. This makes me think IMC is a civvie and Nevinera is not.

#4097

If I can get all the PMs, I will end Night 19 early (which I would much prefer to do to prevent the deadline from getting later and later.

#4098

I would assume because we are *both* civs, and he couldn't give me both roles. Your logic only works if you assume one of the two of us was a snake. As for why he replaced someone so late, it's probably because I really wanted to play.

I certainly don't think he'd try to 'balance' out (read: extend significantly) a game that has been going for so long!

#4099

Nevinera wrote:I would assume because we are *both* civs, and he couldn't give me both roles. Your logic only works if you assume one of the two of us was a snake. As for why he replaced someone so late, it's probably because I really wanted to play.

I certainly don't think he'd try to 'balance' out (read: extend significantly) a game that has been going for so long!

I disagree. Epignosis is a very fair host. He would want the game to be as balanced/fair as possible no matter how long the game would need to take.

#4100

That was not the point I was trying to make. If he thought the game had originally been unbalanced, then sure - he might try to balance it back out by adding someone to the losing team. But he's not going to take a game that was essentially fair, but has one side starting to win, and then 'balance' it so that the team that has established its lead loses that lead.

Now, unless you think that *both* of the roles in question were evil, the_untamed having left couldn't unbalance things in favor of the civs - at worst it would make things even again, since IMC also left. It makes much more sense the other direction - IMC and untamed were both civs, and he is trying to balance the game back up by adding one of them back in. Which do you think is more likely - both civs, or both bads?