[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

[Canucklehead]

BR, I'm sorry that you're frustrated with being continually bandwagoned. I haven't played the last few games, so I didn't know that was a continuing trend. In light of that, I think I would interpret your posts differently (I.e. As genuine frustration and irritation, rather than manufactured ire). I'm going to move my vote to ninja for now, while I reconsider my position on you.

[Hedgeowl]

looking into nutella

any points i make may well be rehashes of old discussions or miss important context. i don't know, but i think it's best if i don't worry about that. if it happens, yell at me.

Spoiler: show

I don't get the Hedgeowl suspicion at all. She posted while catching up and gave her input on a couple main discussions. None of her posts look particularly bad to me, just kind of average minimal-but-sufficient participation. I guess I understood LC's point (though it was regarding SVS) about commenting on issues rather than players, but Hedgie gave her views on LC/Epi/SVS so that doesn't really apply. I don't know, she could be hiding behind that type of participation (I haven't played many games with her but isn't it kind of her norm?) but I just don't really see the reasons for suspecting her, they seem contrived.

I could see SVS as bad. I mean, SVS is always bad

this post is somewhat troubling for covering so much ground within a single read of one player, especially on Day 1. nutella feels strongly enough about her defense of Hedgeowl that she is willing to use such strong language as "I don't get the suspicion at all", but is also willing to semi-explore the theories proposed against her. it's a stronger defense than one might expect to encounter so early, and it contains at least one caveat (highlighted in yellow) to shake the post on its own foundation.

Spoiler: show

...I just stated some.
For the most part though it is too early for me to form reads unless something crazy happens. As for LC and Epi, idk I think they're their usual zany selves, could be any alignment.

Sloonei prompted nutella for reads on Day 1 and this was one immediate response. i am not a big fan of it because the names she mentions are accompanied by non-reads. i don't know why she even bothered to mention LC or Epi 1.0 in this post, because her reads on them seem to mesh with her reads on everyone else as she put it herself (bolded, highlighted). this is additionally problematic given the Mafia-2 flip by LC.

Spoiler: show

I am kind of lost as to where to go this day 1. I haven't really caught on to any of the popular suspicions. I'm at work and won't really have time to re-read stuff so I hope something comes up as I catch up that will give me some direction, but I usually feel hopelessly uncertain about everyone on day 1 :\

those of you who've played with her before: is it typical for nutella to be so timid about providing reads on players on Day 1? she was really struggling at various points to take any stances.\

Spoiler: show

I'm getting a weird vibe from LC and I can't really put my finger on it. It's like he doesn't seem LCish to me. But maybe that's because I haven't really played with him in a while (not counting Pilate which was decidedly not his usual style) and I may be projecting misremembered conceptions of his style, or maybe it's because he's been busy IRL, idk there's just been something nagging at the back of my head about all his posts so far that just feels not quite right. Obviously he's particularly on the defensive right now so maybe I am reading too much into how he's acting under pressure.

Nice sandwich truck! Needs some avocado though.


@Scotty what evidence do you see that there could be two kills? We don't seem to know anything about the roles or the baddie teams really, unless I'm missing something... Typically when there are two teams they kill on alternate nights (I guess you're new to the site and might not have realized that). Though it certainly could be the case that two or more roles/teams kill on the same night. There could be a civ ninja or an indie SK.


Btw I am voting to read the book.

it's important to note here that nutella started voicing some uneasiness about LC on Night 1, after having asserted he seemed like his usual self earlier on Day 1. this is a strange change of tune, and it's not ideal having followed the Day 1 lynch in which LC narrowly avoided being lynched (thanks in part to nutella's late vote going to Cobalt). so nutella waited until LC was safe from lynching to express this concern about him, and it's the first such comment she made about him in the game that i can see. that's a pretty bad look.

Spoiler: show

My thoughts on Epi getting NKed: Usually when a nightkill target during the first couple nights of the game is someone who has been strongly pushing suspicion against someone else, I tend to think it is the baddies' attempt to frame the suspected party. (Can get complicated and WIFOMy though, like if the suspected party really is on the offending team and thinks "nobody will think I actually targeted the person who pushed for my lynch, they'll think it was a frameup" -- that's possible, and maybe this frameup would be too easy) but I'm inclined to think it could be an attempt to frame LC. Which just makes me all the more suspicious of Cobalt for today.

uh oh. this post is pretty suspicious too, especially since it's come to light that LC was indeed mafia and took part in killing Epi 1.0. this was proven not to be a frame job, and so that nutella provided this theory that it was a framejob, unprompted as far as i can tell, just appears inorganic. it's okay to be wrong about some things as a townie, but usually that wrongness occurs in a perspective espoused during a relevant thread discussion. this wrong thing came from the void, protected LC, and placed the crosshairs on the ever-suspected Cobalt instead. soon after nutella had expressed uneasiness about LC too on Night 1.

Spoiler: show

Lol just saw Cobalt laughing off the attempt to frame *him*. Funny joke, you must have enjoyed planning it!

Sorry for posting so many times in a row, and for being so rambly, but my thoughts are going a mile a minute. But I guess I could see it either way. Epi was really gunning hard for Cobalt too by the end of the day, so maybe it was more of a Cobalt frame. Maybe LC and Cobalt are trying to frame each other. Or even better, they're both bad, maybe they're teammates after all and Cobalt's trying to pull a daredevil distancing strategy.

nutella's takes on Cobalt and LC are pretty contradictory during this period of her post history. she seemed to notice that and ended up with these "maybe they're both bad" comments accompanied by vague assertions of simultaneous framing -- or even cooperative framing.

Spoiler: show

I think the Tiny pattern thing you mentioned above was brought up because people thought that it was odd she would keep mentioning it over and over and that it could eb the case she's just trying too hard to be careful and mimic every other game she has played. I thnik there could be something to this theory, and I have my eye on her but I would like to observe her for a little longer. She is also a very low poster so I haven't read much from her.

I had considered Cobalt for my vote last time round, and I think he's my top suspect for todays lynch. I get really scummy vibes off him. I am a little worried about the things he has insiunated about his role, but I also think those could indicate that he is mafia.

Golden is someone I want to keep a closer eye on. I couldn't give you specifics at this moment in time (hence wanting to scrutinise further) but I've always played with civvie Golden and feel like there's something slightly different this game.

i never like theories about mafia team mates before even one of them has been confirmed as mafia. these ideas have higher manipulative potential than the mean, and now we can look back on this one with narrowed eyes because of Bubbles' town flip. nutella saw fit to link the two of them together (albeit on the strength of theories brought forth by others -- she gave them credit and hopped aboard). this supposed link may have been a big part of what led to Bubbles' eventual lynch. is that correct? if so, it was clearly an erroneous strategic course and i think it's valid to view nutella with suspicion for it now.

Spoiler: show

I'm thinking of voting for Hedgeowl, or maybe for nutella because she completely ignored my thoughts on her 0_0

What thoughts did you want me to address? I saw you bring my name up but I didn't think you were addressing anything to me.


Curious developments regarding Bass and Epi2. Wonder what made BR so certain about Bass.

minor point perhaps, but i don't know why Turnip would say nutella's name without meaning to address her in some capacity. so this is a strange comment.

Spoiler: show

I hope G-man is actually going to stop posting all those images. It's annoying as hell. I don't care if you lost a bet or whatever. You're not being a helpful participant.

Is the case on Tiny Bubbles contingent on LC also being bad? Or is there a case for bad TB with a civ LC?

This tbh. I suspect LC a little bit more than Bubbles, and if LC ends up bad I'd look at her as a possible teammate, but I don't see any independent reason to suspect her.

And yeah I don't understand the thing with BR's post. I don't get how it happened but I don't get how it makes her suspicious either.

continued promotion of the erroneous Bubbles/LC link.

Spoiler: show

If only anyone actually read my posts I did in fact discuss my PM when they were being discussed at first, and that it involved protection and a role check and yes it does seem to be the same as Niju's.


I do suspect sig, am going to more carefully re-read sloonei's case to confirm that I agree and then I might switch my vote (doesn't look like Bass is that likely of a candidate at this point)

i think the stronger case to be made against nutella so far is to link her to LC and Mafia-2. this post can be seen through that lens i think. sig was lynched in a landslide vote and flipped Mafia-1. if nutella is a member of Mafia-2 then she had no way of knowing for sure (unless i am missing a significant detail) that sig was not a civilian. so she placed a very late vote and kind of shoved the responsibility for the case to Sloonei instead of shouldering it herself. it's a less meaningful point because it's more speculative, but it's something to think about.

Spoiler: show

Oh nutella! I forgot to ask. Since you feel like talking about Long Con, what is your read on him? Would you consider a lynch of him today?

Yes, I kind of thought I said this in my post...? There's been a consistent trend of people not reading what I post
I said I'd be happy to lynch either LC or Gman, I think they are both likely to be bad. Particularly regarding LC, to answer your question in a bit more detail: I've found his posts as a whole rather odd the entire game, and I think he is playing a very baddie style. I've gone back and forth with uncertainty a couple times, for instance after night 1 when I thought he might have been framed. But at this point I really think he is more likely bad than not.

i give nutella credit for holding true to her story with admirable precision on Day 4 regarding her reads on LC. she's kind of been all over the place with him throughout her post history with the most recurring theme being calling him suspicious but always placing someone else a notch above him on the priority list. that's not a great trend, but it's possible for it to be genuine and i think it's a decent reflection that she was consistent in this case.

Spoiler: show

Who are your suspects today Bass?

My top suspect is still cobalt. When I was doing my six page catch up I got a bad vibe from LC when he switched his vote after saying he wasnt going to be around. Today LC is starting to read more normal to me, so I have him in a gray area. The problem i'm having is trying to remember what mafia LC looks like. I know he was Indy in RR but I think the only game I have seen him be bad in was my first mafia game ever Supernatural Mafia on Rev. I got a slight ping from DF when he made the comment about me not saying anything because I think this is the most I have ever posted in a game this early. I felt like he is skipping over stuff and I tend to think baddies skim and skip stuff because they arent really worried about catching any mafia.

There are a lot of people who I would like to hear more from when they get caught up.

This is the post I found most suspicious. It really sounded like you were waffling on LC and trying to justify not suspecting him while looking like you were also trying to reconsider your position on him to go along with the thread. If LC is bad this totally looks teammate-y. Even if he isn't, this really looks like a baddie style of trying to blend in and giving some thoughts that look original. And (I think BR pointed this out too) those last couple sentences are really really vague and sound like you're trying too hard to look civvie.


I know it's really not the strongest case, and that's because it's largely a gut feeling, which I know you can't really defend against but I do hope to see you participate more and give actual input. Because so far you've given me the impression of a baddie trying to blend in.


linki: It certainly doesn't seem like you've been posting much. I just looked and you have more posts in thread than I thought, but that is not necessarily a good sign. Quality over quantity. Maybe you're making little posts here and there but you've barely contributed anything.

i'm not a fan of this one. she was critical of Bass for "waffling" about LC, but i don't think he was really waffling very much -- at least not in that post. nutella has waffled quite a lot about LC herself throughout her post history. and if LC is finally going to be lynched (as he was on Day 4), it's of course important for his team mates to set up non Mafia-2-aligned players to look bad. i think nutella could be accused of smearing Bass pre-emptively and unfairly here, anticipating the lynch and mafia flip of LC.

~~~

that's probably enough. based on what i can see here in my still limited experience with this game thread, i think there are valid reasons to suspect nutella. if i am off-base on anything, i ask anyone to tell me why. this exercise alone was very helpful in getting me acclimated with the progression of the game though.

This is what I hoped to do if I actually had a bit more time. Thank you JJJ. I find this all pretty compelling on nutella. Your first point about nutella's strong defense of me if the only thing I would disagree with personally. Also, it's inconsistent with your later statement that you "never like theories about mafia team mates before even one of them has been confirmed as mafia." I find her defense, distancing on LC to be quite interesting in light of events however.

*Votes nutella*

[Epignosis]

BR, I'm sorry that you're frustrated with being continually bandwagoned. I haven't played the last few games, so I didn't know that was a continuing trend. In light of that, I think I would interpret your posts differently (I.e. As genuine frustration and irritation, rather than manufactured ire). I'm going to move my vote to ninja for now, while I reconsider my position on you.

I see this didn't actually happen.

[Epignosis]

The poll at 10:30pm EST:

Who ran over Sloonei? (votes are changeable)

Poll runs till Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:40 am
You may select 1 option

Bass The Clever
0
No votes

Black Rock
6
Cobalt (3), DFaraday (7), Epignosis (8), Canucklehead (9), fingersplints (11), Golden (12)
29%

Bullzeye
0
No votes

Cobalt
4
Metalmarsh89 (2), nijuukyugou (5), Black Rock (15), Bass_the_Clever (16)
19%

Devin
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

Canucklehead
0
No votes

DREAM
0
No votes

Fingersplints
0
No votes

Golden
0
No votes

Gumshoe
0
No votes

Hedgeowl
0
No votes

MetalMarsh89
0
No votes

Epignosis 2.0
1
timmer (20)
5%

Neverwhere
0
No votes

nijuukyugou
1
S~V~S (14)
5%

Nutella
3
JaggedJimmyJay (17), Scotty (19), Hedgeowl (21)
14%

Scotty
0
No votes

Timmer
0
No votes

TinyBubbles
0
No votes

Turnip Head
0
No votes

SURPRISE JONATHAN REID GEALT
6
Dom (1), Dragon D. Luffy (4), Sloonei (6), juliets (10), G-Man (13), Heiots (18)
29%


Total votes : 21

[timmer]

What the hell? Why is my vote on Epig? I went out for a quick bite with friends but that vote should have been for BR.

[Dom]

Who ran over Sloonei? (votes are changeable)

Poll runs till Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:40 am
You may select 1 option


Bass The Clever
0
No votes
Black Rock
7
Cobalt (3), DFaraday (7), Epignosis (8), Canucklehead (9), fingersplints (11), Golden (12), timmer (21) 33%
Bullzeye
0
No votes
Cobalt
4
Metalmarsh89 (2), nijuukyugou (5), Black Rock (15), Bass_the_Clever (16) 19%
Devin
0
No votes
DFaraday
0
No votes
Canucklehead
0
No votes
DREAM
0
No votes
Fingersplints
0
No votes
Golden
0
No votes
Gumshoe
0
No votes
Hedgeowl
0
No votes
MetalMarsh89
0
No votes
Epignosis 2.0
0
No votes
Neverwhere
0
No votes
nijuukyugou
1
S~V~S (14) 5%
Nutella
3
JaggedJimmyJay (17), Scotty (19), Hedgeowl (20) 14%
Scotty
0
No votes
Timmer
0
No votes
TinyBubbles
0
No votes
Turnip Head
0
No votes
SURPRISE JONATHAN REID GEALT
6
Dom (1), Dragon D. Luffy (4), Sloonei (6), juliets (10), G-Man (13), Heiots (18) 29%
Total votes : 21

[Black Rock]

Well I got lynched. Timmer was talking today which means he can't be trusted. I can't explain further but it's true. Thanks for a great game Dom.

[Dom]

Act One, Scene Seven

ENTER BLACK ROCK AND HOODED FIGURE
THEY WHISPER CS
MOB NOISES ARE HEARD OFF STAGE
HOODED FIGURE EXIT SR



BLACK ROCK: NO--- I WASN'T


MOB ENTERS AND TRAMPLES HER


ENTER CHILD
CHILD: Yesterday is gone. See the pretty country side. Merrily we roll along, roll along-- gathering dreams. Rolling along... rolling along.... rolling along....
EXIT

Black Rock has been lynched. She was Merrily We Roll Along (Corrupted). It is now Night 7. You have 24 hours to get your PMs in.

[Dom]

Thanks you for your patience everyone. I have had a busy past couple of days, and was hoping the game would have started earlier so I wouldn't be in this part of my summer running the game. U R ALL AWESME

[Cobalt]

HOW MANY MORE OF MY SCUM READS NEED TO FLIP BAD BEFORE Y'ALL QUIT ACTING LIKE I'M SOME KIND OF CRIMINAL SLIPPING THROUGH THE CRACKS OR SOME SHIT.

Literally eat me. Not the best case scenario but I was still right.

[Hedgeowl]

Corrupted, so this fits with the LC teammate theory since that's the team with 3. It wouldn't be crazy of them to recruit BR either. Well done, those who sniffed her out. I can take no credt having minimally participated in this lynch as it is. I am interested in the fact that nutella did not vote. JJJ, scotty, and others what do you think of nutella in light of BR's flip, is she the next place to look or are others still suspect.

Lol Cobalt, yeah no one thinks your LC's teammate now I think. But could there be more than one corrupted teammate...

[timmer]

See you next time, BR! No hard feelings, I hope!

[nutella]

Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

[Marmot]

See you next time, BR! No hard feelings, I hope!

Can I trust what you say?

[timmer]

See you next time, BR! No hard feelings, I hope!

Can I trust what you say?

Is there a reason you shouldn't? I'm not going to wrap myself up in the Captain Civviepants cape like Cobalt or anything, though I absolutely am one. But I like to think I nailed this case, at least?

[Golden]

HOW MANY MORE OF MY SCUM READS NEED TO FLIP BAD BEFORE Y'ALL QUIT ACTING LIKE I'M SOME KIND OF CRIMINAL SLIPPING THROUGH THE CRACKS OR SOME SHIT.

Literally eat me. Not the best case scenario but I was still right.

Some of your scum reads on team one, perhaps?

Well played, BR. How ironic that LC should be able to 'corrupt' you. I bet it happened on night one

Thats four baddies down and four to go. I know I've been thinking cobalt, but at this stage I'm definitely ready and willing to read back and start thinking through as many suspects as possible.

@timmer - oh, by the way, I think I can now safely say this. Jekyll and Hyde's ability is one I knew was out there, and it is one which has unfortunately affected me negatively, because I chose not to pursue epi 2.0 to the ends of the earth and get him lynched.

I'm also now fairly confident that epi 2.0 is not bad. TGG quit over his return (would he have done that if epi was his teammate? No, I don't think so) while LC's team set out to get me to go after epi, probably to stop me feuding with LC.

[Scotty]

I hate being silenced.

Also I was insanified, so I guess that answers my question as to whether or not that asshat role is still roaming around.

BlackRock was unexpected, but a good kill in the end. Wish I knew what her role did and how long she was using it for nefarious purposes.

RIP Sloonei He's got big shoes to fill, but we're still doing pretty well with our deductions on more than just a few people now. Keep 'em coming!

[Scotty]

Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I'm not buying you didn't have enough time to vote. It's an even day. You can change votes. You can placehold. We all have commitments, but 48 hours is a while to be gone, especially since you were active on Monday.

"My views are always inconsistent."
You sound like you're proud of that.

"I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time."
The most mafia sounding thing I've heard you say so far.

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

[Scotty]

And also, the random attempt on Bass from Bonnie and Clyde has me thinking of BR too, since she was the one who seemed most convinced he was bad.

I don't know why we weren't talking more about Bass's murder attempt this past day. Now moreso, since he and TurnipHead were BR's main suspicions.
I'm not sure which night LC corrupted his wife, (besides his wedding night HEYO ) but it isn't a stretch to assume it was early on.

In Night 1, BR is "watching Bass" on top of her suspicion of TH. Then this post referring to the PM pretty much out of the gate in Day 2:

I think I have it solved basically, some of the flavour text I haven't but it is a baddie role. I think there is a possibility of a civvie being corrupted. Now my dear host wouldn't confirm this to me but I think it might be a recruitment possibility. If one team has it the other team might as well.

Either she was hiding her corruption or put this post put crosshairs on her for Night 2 corruption.

Either way, she really lays into Bass in Day 2, and doesn't really let up all game. I mean that to say she never noticably switches viewpoints Is that her civvie suspicion of a baddie lingering, or is the fact that she was corrupted giving her more incentive to place blame on an innocent? I'm thinking the latter.

Well I got lynched. Timmer was talking today which means he can't be trusted. I can't explain further but it's true. Thanks for a great game Dom.

Again, is she trying to actually be helpful by casting a shadow of doubt on Timmer or being a corrupted little witch? I take any extra suspicions from her in these late stages with a grain of salt.

Also in my notes as having been suspicious of Bass are nutella and fingersplints. Could one of them be Mr. Clyde and Miss Bonnie? I THINK SO.


Timmer: I legit never figured out why both Golden and Sloonei (among others) have thought so highly of him. He's never pinged me, per se, and I do feel like he's been pretty forthright with his opinions, but forthright does not equal civ... It's something I will look into but for right now I see him as slightly civ at +5.

[Scotty]

HOW MANY MORE OF MY SCUM READS NEED TO FLIP BAD BEFORE Y'ALL QUIT ACTING LIKE I'M SOME KIND OF CRIMINAL SLIPPING THROUGH THE CRACKS OR SOME SHIT.

Literally eat me. Not the best case scenario but I was still right.

This doesn't mean you are good. I actually thought BR played formidably, and I don't necessarily think you come off as more civ for flaunting this in our faces.

[Golden]

Actually, the hooded figure in the death post for BR suggests to me that the scene with the hooded figures was, in fact, BR being recruited on night 3.

Which probably means (given the lack of any similar event on night one) that there is only one person corrupted, since those were the only opportunities wildhorn had to do it. Just my thinking. Obviously it's hard to know for sure.

I really don't like the fact that Jekyll & Hyde is a seemer. It's possible that it is even bubbles.

[Golden]

Also I was insanified, so I guess that answers my question as to whether or not that asshat role is still roaming around.

Good to know.

[Scotty]

Actually, the hooded figure in the death post for BR suggests to me that the scene with the hooded figures was, in fact, BR being recruited on night 3.

Which probably means (given the lack of any similar event on night one) that there is only one person corrupted, since those were the only opportunities wildhorn had to do it. Just my thinking. Obviously it's hard to know for sure.

I really don't like the fact that Jekyll & Hyde is a seemer. It's possible that it is even bubbles.

Ah right, that makes sense. You had said earlier today that it was probably Company so I thought that made sense at the time, but the corruption does make more sense.

I'm actually confused with the wording of Jekyll and Hyde. Can someone break that down? And Golden, what is a seemer? When appearing civ, does Jekyll and Hyde take on a random role, making Sweeney Todd still out and alive?

[Golden]

"seemer" just means a baddie who 'seems' civilian when lynched. Normally, they would appear to be a random civilian role, but I've never actually hosted a game with a seemer so I don't know how 'random' the role they appear to be actually is.

And I can very much break down that role... later, I have to catch a train now.

[nutella]

Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I'm not buying you didn't have enough time to vote. It's an even day. You can change votes. You can placehold. We all have commitments, but 48 hours is a while to be gone, especially since you were active on Monday.

"My views are always inconsistent."
You sound like you're proud of that.

"I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time."
The most mafia sounding thing I've heard you say so far.

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

I missed the vote, honest, plain and simple. I would never deliberately skip a vote. I do admit I hadn't remembered it was a changeable-vote day, and I typically like to wait until close to the end to vote, so I was planning to vote when I got back from work, but I got distracted and forgot.

I'm not necessarily "proud" that my views are inconsistent, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing either. I think it can be equally or more harmful to have tunnel vision and doggedly pursue the same suspects over and over without reconsidering from time to time. Maybe I'm just forgiving to a fault but I like to give people second chances to prove themselves, and unless something really strongly convinces me that someone is bad, my reads are usually tentative and not unshakeable.

And why is that so mafia sounding? It's true. Civvies tend to have less idea of what's going on. My role doesn't offer me much extra insight into the game, so I have to go by thread content, which is constantly in flux.

[S~V~S]

I always want to trust BR. I read back on her & the cases on her last night, and the fact that there were aspects of both teams involved made me leery of a BR vote.

So kudos to Black Rock voters, but I am still OK with my vote.

[fingersplints]

"seemer" just means a baddie who 'seems' civilian when lynched. Normally, they would appear to be a random civilian role, but I've never actually hosted a game with a seemer so I don't know how 'random' the role they appear to be actually is.

And I can very much break down that role... later, I have to catch a train now.

Sometimes the role allows the player to pick the role. (Example: LC in Cars mafia)
But I think it's more often random

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

Thanks Scotty. Here's a sneak preview:

Epignosis is to adverbs as I am to exclamation marks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I encourage you to go over it when you have time. Inconsistency is one theme I think (most importantly as it pertains to Long Con), but it isn't the only thing that troubled me.

[Marmot]

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

Thanks Scotty. Here's a sneak preview:

Epignosis is to adverbs as I am to exclamation marks.

[S~V~S]

Is this a new "thing" you're trying out?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is this a new "thing" you're trying out?

who what

[Cobalt]

can we lynch Blooper tomorrow pls

[Scotty]

Spoiler: show

Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I'm not buying you didn't have enough time to vote. It's an even day. You can change votes. You can placehold. We all have commitments, but 48 hours is a while to be gone, especially since you were active on Monday.

"My views are always inconsistent."
You sound like you're proud of that.

"I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time."
The most mafia sounding thing I've heard you say so far.

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

I missed the vote, honest, plain and simple. I would never deliberately skip a vote. I do admit I hadn't remembered it was a changeable-vote day, and I typically like to wait until close to the end to vote, so I was planning to vote when I got back from work, but I got distracted and forgot.

I'm not necessarily "proud" that my views are inconsistent, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing either. I think it can be equally or more harmful to have tunnel vision and doggedly pursue the same suspects over and over without reconsidering from time to time. Maybe I'm just forgiving to a fault but I like to give people second chances to prove themselves, and unless something really strongly convinces me that someone is bad, my reads are usually tentative and not unshakeable.

And why is that so mafia sounding? It's true. Civvies tend to have less idea of what's going on. My role doesn't offer me much extra insight into the game, so I have to go by thread content, which is constantly in flux.

Qualifying yourself by saying you're a civ that just doesn't know anything is one of the things that led us to lynching TinyBubbles. Granted, she was good (barring she wasn't Jekyll) but it was still a thing that had multiple people pulling out our guns, if you recall.

@nutella Who do you find most suspicious right now, since BR is gone? I'm just curious. Bass still?

[nutella]

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I encourage you to go over it when you have time. Inconsistency is one theme I think (most importantly as it pertains to Long Con), but it isn't the only thing that troubled me.

Okay, so I read over it again and the other main point seems to be the Bubbles thing. Incidentally one of the posts you quote is actually by Neverwhere, not me... Anyway, I made it pretty clear that I didn't want to jump right into suspecting Bubbles independently, my suspicion of her was completely dependent on LC flipping bad because I saw what looked like possible teammate behavior between them. I think there were plenty of other people who pushed the Bubbles suspicion further and were more responsible for her lynch, though I was certainly complacent in it. Again, I was very hesitant at first but by the day we lynched her she was really looking like a cornered baddie.

Some of your points are just about my Day 1 uncertainty in general, which I have already said is perfectly normal.

I'm unclear on the points some parts of your post are trying to make, like the part about the Sig vote. I honestly don't get your analysis there. Can you explain that one? And the TH thing, what? In the post you quote I was simply asking TH if he had actually wanted me to respond to something. I'm not going to automatically defensively respond to any little time someone mentions my name in passing, because it's healthy to be on some people's public lists, but if he had actually addressed me a question or something more elaborate and I missed it, I wanted to make sure.

And my Bass suspicion was more of a gut read, but when I mentioned he was "waffling on LC" I meant that as a direct criticism of that one particular post by him. IMO there is a HUGE difference between "waffling" on someone on a wider scale in the course of a few days and actually changing your tune on someone within a single post. Sure my opinions change over time, and my posts every time I check in reflect how my views stand at the time, but they are internally consistent. But when someone within a SINGLE post addresses a popular suspicion, says it might have some merit, and then carefully hedges around it to absolve the person right away, that looks really bad.

Linki: How did my claiming to be a clueless civ cause Bubbles to be lynched? What?
I'm honestly not sure who I suspect most right now. I'm afraid the baddies are hiding in the people who don't stand out as much, like Niju and Hedge, maybe splints. Going to look at them again.

[Marmot]

Well I got lynched. Timmer was talking today which means he can't be trusted. I can't explain further but it's true. Thanks for a great game Dom.

So it would seem that "Bonnie and Clyde" or "Merrily We Roll Along" is the silencer, and that the silencer is on the Wildhorn team.

It looks like Black Rock is saying that they targeted timmer. Scotty came in and said he was silenced. Looks like a redirect to me.

[Scotty]

Well I got lynched. Timmer was talking today which means he can't be trusted. I can't explain further but it's true. Thanks for a great game Dom.

So it would seem that "Bonnie and Clyde" or "Merrily We Roll Along" is the silencer, and that the silencer is on the Wildhorn team.

It looks like Black Rock is saying that they targeted timmer. Scotty came in and said he was silenced. Looks like a redirect to me.

Good catch, MM. I wrote that off as just an aside since this is the busiest timmer has been all game. But that would make sense.
It would also make sense thematically if Bonnie and Clyde is the silencer.
Also it is not public knowledge who, if anyone, was insanified 2 days ago. I'd like to think both parties are working in tandem, or else it's coincidence they're matching their targets. I don't like coincidence. You were silenced, MM. Did it say you were also insanified?

[Marmot]

I was not insanified. And considering what the roles do, I do doubt that the insanifier would be on the Wildhorn team and the same team as the Silencer. Also, insanifying the obvious lynch target of G-Man the other day would be a waste of time for Mafia 2. Instead, I think the Insanifier is on Mafia 1.

But I do believe the Insanifier and Jekyll and Hide are working in tandem. Would you agree? Any idea? I notice that not only was timmer "supposed" to be silenced, but his vote was "accidentally" place on Epignosis.

Oh, and with BR being the most suspicious player going into today, it makes sense that someone would target her with a redirect.

[Scotty]

Linki: How did my claiming to be a clueless civ cause Bubbles to be lynched? What?
I'm honestly not sure who I suspect most right now. I'm afraid the baddies are hiding in the people who don't stand out as much, like Niju and Hedge, maybe splints. Going to look at them again.

Sorry I guess I phrased that weirdly. I meant that Tiny kept calling herself a lowly and humble civ to seem as forcibly good, and that was at least a factor in getting her lynched.

I agree with you that this is an ideal time for baddies to be hiding in the haystack. I'm interested in Niju because that was the last suspect Sloonei was begging for closure on. And def nutella, hedge and fingersplints. All 4 of your ladies have been in the shadows for a while, and I'm willing to bet that at least 1 of you has a hankering for murder. I'm gonna do an ISO on Hedge in a bit, since she only has 36 posts and just recently jumped on nutella's case in one post and voted for her.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that you are still the elephant in the room, my dear Watsonutella.

[nijuukyugou]

can we lynch Blooper tomorrow pls

Not if you wanna keep lynching baddies :P

I'm honestly not sure who I suspect most right now. I'm afraid the baddies are hiding in the people who don't stand out as much, like Niju and Hedge, maybe splints. Going to look at them again.

"Don't stand out as much"? Really? Because my name's been thrown around quite a lot for several days. Your attempt to be subtle is a no-go.

Linki - Again, being put on the back burner is not the same as "in the shadows." I have not been hiding, nor has anyone been ignoring me. They've just been going for (some) of the right people instead. I'm here! Hello! Hi!

[Scotty]

I was not insanified. And considering what the roles do, I do doubt that the insanifier would be on the Wildhorn team and the same team as the Silencer. Also, insanifying the obvious lynch target of G-Man the other day would be a waste of time for Mafia 2. Instead, I think the Insanifier is on Mafia 1.

But I do believe the Insanifier and Jekyll and Hide are working in tandem. Would you agree? Any idea? I notice that not only was timmer "supposed" to be silenced, but his vote was "accidentally" place on Epignosis.

Oh, and with BR being the most suspicious player going into today, it makes sense that someone would target her with a redirect.

It would make sense that a civ would redirect the silencing. And since timmer really wasn't talking much leading up into Day 6 (His only post was about him being hungover and that he thought BR was scum), that little bit he did say COULD be BR. Seems benign enough before timmer has a chance to lay his suspicions on her again. It will be interesting come Day 7 whether or not silencing is still around.

"But I do believe the Insanifier and Jekyll and Hide are working in tandem." On the surface it would appear that way, but if you think it's on team Webber, how can they work in tandem if not for coincidence?

Actually, I'm very confident after looking at the history that insanity only works on even days. Cobalt Day 2, GMan Day 4, Me Day 6. I don't think that it's a particularly mafia-aligned ability. I'm still thinking it's an independent role doing it.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Cobalt who do you suspect and why?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Lol, you're so unbelievably bad.

Why because I have suspected you all game?

[Golden]

I was not insanified. And considering what the roles do, I do doubt that the insanifier would be on the Wildhorn team and the same team as the Silencer. Also, insanifying the obvious lynch target of G-Man the other day would be a waste of time for Mafia 2. Instead, I think the Insanifier is on Mafia 1.

But I do believe the Insanifier and Jekyll and Hide are working in tandem. Would you agree? Any idea? I notice that not only was timmer "supposed" to be silenced, but his vote was "accidentally" place on Epignosis.

Oh, and with BR being the most suspicious player going into today, it makes sense that someone would target her with a redirect.

It would make sense that a civ would redirect the silencing. And since timmer really wasn't talking much leading up into Day 6 (His only post was about him being hungover and that he thought BR was scum), that little bit he did say COULD be BR. Seems benign enough before timmer has a chance to lay his suspicions on her again. It will be interesting come Day 7 whether or not silencing is still around.

"But I do believe the Insanifier and Jekyll and Hide are working in tandem." On the surface it would appear that way, but if you think it's on team Webber, how can they work in tandem if not for coincidence?

Actually, I'm very confident after looking at the history that insanity only works on even days. Cobalt Day 2, GMan Day 4, Me Day 6. I don't think that it's a particularly mafia-aligned ability. I'm still thinking it's an independent role doing it.

If you are right about it only being on even nights, then ?I bet it is Andrew Lloyd Webber. Kills on odd nights, targets someone to be insanified on even nights. Similar to how wildhorn had the corruption ability on odd nights.

[Cobalt]

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Lol, you're so unbelievably bad.

Why because I have suspected you all game?

You suspected me early game because you thought LC was normal/civilian after reading over everything. If you honestly think that was a planned-out, elaborate bus job and that's why you find me suspicious you can kindly shove that POV where the sun don't shine.

In fact, you didn't say my name once between Day Two when you voted me, and Day 6 when you said if you voted, you would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

So please, KINDLY point me to where you suspected me "all game". Pretty weak as far as I can see, as though you're trying to take credit for heat that you never actually put on me. In fact, you only started saying "all game" this phase, even though you don't have the post history to back it up.

Cobalt has looked bad all game to me or at least indy his actions havent read civvie at all to me.

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Lol, you're so unbelievably bad.

Why because I have suspected you all game?

You're trying to take credit for something that you simply did not do.

Your early suspicion of me was ALL based on me going after Long Con - and GUESS WHAT? Long Con was bad, and I was fucking right.

Did you ever once pause to re-examine the situation, or are you honestly going to claim that that early suspicion still stands even though I caught a baddie night 0 and nobody gave me any fucking credit until his bitch ass finally dropped?

How can that suspicion still stand? How can you claim that you've been suspicious of me "all game" if your early suspicions were proven unwarranted?

To answer your question:

Cobalt who do you suspect and why?

You. Because of this. Thanks for giving me what I needed.

[Cobalt]

I just think it's funny that Bass says he's suspected me "all game" when I didn't get mentioned by him between day 2 and day 6. That's an awfully big gap.

[Cobalt]

BUT WAIT, THEREEEE'S MORE!

So I've been reading from the beginning. I think that of LC vs Cobalt. Cobalt looks worse to me, but I am not sure I am suspicious of either yet earlier. I think that it is understandable for him to be a bit wary of LC because of the 90's game on JTM, but it seemed pretty extreme. Now it seems to be a joke

I felt like MP (Now Epi 2.0) was kind of winding Cobalt up earlier. I still don't understand this one:

I have every intention to continue my newfound love of rainbow lists, if at all possible, since I do find them particularly helpful in organizing my own thoughts and feelings on players, and I have to keep up the self-imposed moniker of Rainbow Sockman somehow!

I will put them in spoiler tags though, so that people may read them at their discretion.

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Devin the Omniscient
Epignosis

Bass_the_Clever
Birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
Bullzeye
DFaraday
Dragon D. Luffy
DREAM
fingersplints
Golden
Gumshoe
Hedgeowl
Long Con
Metalmarsh89
Neverwhere
nijuukyugou
nutella
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
S~V~S
timmer
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head
XthAtGAm3RGuYX

Cobalt


For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Come at me, Cobalt.

What would he have to 'come at you' for? The 'very slight mafia read'. idk the whole thing seemed over the top.

I also find Bass suspicious. This post here caught my eye on I've read all his posts now.

What bothered me on there is Epi asked him to read LC and tell him if there is anything suspicious. Instead of doing that bass asks a couple questions of Epi: "Is it because there are only six post, 3 of which are fluff posts?"
"Is it the MP/Epi shoving match post?"

Providing reasons it COULD be suspicious without actually committing that he found LC suspicious for those reasons.

Reading through his posts he is asking a lot of questions of others, and I also feel like he is being a bit careful with his wording about LC. Here he mentions feeling bad about LC, but already feeling better about him in the same posts. But then gives excuses why he might be wrong about it.

Gonna keep reading now. I was still pretty early in the game when I switched to the Bass read so
sorry if any of this has already been discussed a ton.

Ok I think this is the post you are talking about. I wasn't really sure how I felt about LC besides the fact that I thought it looked shady that he moved his vote. After that I was catchingg up and LC seemed to be ok so thats why I said he was in a grey area. I agree that LC has been defending most this game. Can you please explain how I was trying to be careful with my wording about LC?

Why does this SCREAM to me that Bass is trying to cover his tracks for when LC flipped scum?

Hmmmmmmm.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Lol, you're so unbelievably bad.

Why because I have suspected you all game?

You suspected me early game because you thought LC was normal/civilian after reading over everything. If you honestly think that was a planned-out, elaborate bus job and that's why you find me suspicious you can kindly shove that POV where the sun don't shine.

In fact, you didn't say my name once between Day Two when you voted me, and Day 6 when you said if you voted, you would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

So please, KINDLY point me to where you suspected me "all game". Pretty weak as far as I can see, as though you're trying to take credit for heat that you never actually put on me. In fact, you only started saying "all game" this phase, even though you don't have the post history to back it up.

Cobalt has looked bad all game to me or at least indy his actions havent read civvie at all to me.

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Ok so I'm going to vote cobalt. His game play has read bad to me all game.

Lol, you're so unbelievably bad.

Why because I have suspected you all game?

You're trying to take credit for something that you simply did not do.

Your early suspicion of me was ALL based on me going after Long Con - and GUESS WHAT? Long Con was bad, and I was fucking right.

Did you ever once pause to re-examine the situation, or are you honestly going to claim that that early suspicion still stands even though I caught a baddie night 0 and nobody gave me any fucking credit until his bitch ass finally dropped?

How can that suspicion still stand? How can you claim that you've been suspicious of me "all game" if your early suspicions were proven unwarranted?

To answer your question:

Cobalt who do you suspect and why?

You. Because of this. Thanks for giving me what I needed.

Where did I ever say didn't suspect you? I'm not try to take any credit for suspecting you
The reason I suspected you was because how you gave no reasons for going after him besides that he fooled you in some other game. Say you caught a baddie day zero is so funny. You took a shot in the dark and guessed right, wow great job.
You act like you aree making these wonderful cases that are getting baddies lynched and to me that seems like you are trying to take credit for the LC and BR lynch.

[Golden]

So Cobalt, you think that Bass is on team 2?

Riddle me two things.

First, why did Bonnie and Clyde target bass for a kill? (That's the problematic one, for me).

Second - did BR's view on Bass change after corruption? She went pretty hard after him early on. Honestly, my instinct says that I don't remember BR continuing to go after Bass that hard after night 3, so this one actually might fit in with your case. But it's something worth looking in to.

[DFaraday]

I'm honestly not sure who I suspect most right now. I'm afraid the baddies are hiding in the people who don't stand out as much, like Niju and Hedge, maybe splints. Going to look at them again.

"Don't stand out as much"? Really? Because my name's been thrown around quite a lot for several days. Your attempt to be subtle is a no-go.

I'd have to agree with Ninja here. She's been pretty prominent the last couple of days. I still have Ninja on my suspect list though.