Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Bass_the_Clever]

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

No.

Thank you x 2

[LoRab]

If you think G-man phrased his post oddly because of he was wary of the lie detector, does hos exact wording mean anything to you? He does not "pose a threat to the civvies." Does that strike you as the sort of thing scum would say to avoid being caught by a lie detector.
His rationale about not claiming civ due to role claim restrictions does seem a bit odd, i'll give you that.
And I'll also ask for more suspects again. Who besides G-man are you looking at, LoRab?

"Does not pose a threat to the civies" does seem like the sort of thing a baddie would say, yes. Especially if they don't have a power that doesn't have a direct, negative impact on others.

And, at this point, no one else is standing out to me. I'm often a 1 suspect at a time kind of gal. Also, day 1, so not much to go on.

Does this mean your mind and vote are set on G-man today?

I wouldn't say set, but if nothing else comes up and he doesn't say something to convince me, that is likely where I will vote, yes.

Also, as to another post you made (that I forgot to quote), if he was trying to attract the lie detector, then why do so with what is potentially an undetectable statement (a threat to civs can be a matter of opinion as to what that means)...unless you were trying to make sure that a teammate wasn't LD-ed?

At this point we are getting into hypothetics and semantics with regards to the lie detector, and I do not feel that's a totally productive or worthwhile area of discussion right now. However, I would interpret "not a threat to civvies" to mean "not working against the town's interests." But i'm not epi and his is the only judgment that matters here.
Your assertion that he's potentially trying to protect a teammate from being lie detected is a bold one. What makes you think that?

This whole game is about hypothetics and semantics....it's the joy of mafia. I don't think he necessarily is trying to protect a teammate, but when you said it seemed like he was trying to attract the LD to his post, that was a reason that I though of that one might do so.

@Golden: At least on LP and Piano (I never played on STV), the convoluted statements were often, in my experience, more convoluted from baddies than from civies. His wording, to me, doesn't sound civ. Neutral, maybe, but I also don't, as a general rule, trust neutrals.

And, moreover, his statement of thinking that saying one was civ was role claiming and against the rules, really doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I was around back then. And G Man played for a while on LP/Piano after STV stopped having mafia, pre-hiatus, I believe (although could have been before STV stopped hosting, but the exact timing isn't important). And, in fact, I often would make similar arguments about peoples' statements in those days, too. But, if I recall, you and I didn't play together until I started playing on RM.


At any rate, eye me all you want. *twirls*

[LoRab]

In other news, I just realized I needed to update my time zone setting and daylight savings. Which means there are 2 more hours to this poll than I thought there were.

[Tangrowth]

LoRab, don't forget you have the smiley named after you!

Anyway, updated rainbow list incoming. Golden and I are on the same wavelength, since in catching up I was just typing out something that Blooper's entire post was "a whole lot of words without saying much of anything" and that particular part that Golden highlighted appeared to me like she was providing cover for herself to make a Day 1 vote later, as if she doesn't genuinely care to baddie hunt.

I also am starting to come around to giving G-Man another Day, especially since the STV context (I forgot about this, but I think we had a similar discussion in a different game with zeek), and because he is posting a lot. There are way too many players hiding back, the momentum is way too heavy against G-Man, so I'm way more interested in searching for other suspects at the moment.

[Tangrowth]

Did anyone else notice how Elo seemingly jumped onto a vibes-based suspicion of Sloonei (which I held), and then dropped it, after I dropped it? What do folks think of that? I'm not sure what to make of Elo right now.

[Tangrowth]

MP's Rainbow List - Day 1 (~4.5 Hours Remaining)

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Bass_the_Clever
Golden
thellama73

Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
timmer

G-Man
nijuukyugou
Sloonei

For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

[Tangrowth]

MP's Rainbow List - Day 1 (~4.5 Hours Remaining)

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

Bass_the_Clever
Golden
thellama73

Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
Sloonei
timmer

G-Man
nijuukyugou

For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Whoops, I meant to move Sloonei completely up to No read. He's there now.

[Tangrowth]

Bah, I should have continued my method of quoting all the posts as I go. Sorry for all the posts, guys.

I have some questions:

Elo, can you elaborate on your reads of those individuals in your most recent post? Particularly I'm interested in why you find me to be civilian this game, but in Economics, you said I seemed overly helpful.

Bass, can you elaborate on what it is you're feeling with Sloonei in this game, in any way? How is he different to you? Like, name an adjective, first one that comes to mind, that explains the difference.

Be back later, folks. I promise I'll continue my more organized posts next time, I just was in a rush this time around.

[timmer]

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

[Tangrowth]

I voted for myself. Spent all day cleaning, getting ready, friends due any minute. I will get into the game when I can!

Why, timmer, why???

If you KNOW you're a civilian, then why not just take a chance randomizing? Randomized votes are absolutely terrible, but at least they aren't 100% likely to land on a civilian if you are a civilian and self vote. Now you've left us with a scenario where we have to WIFOM and figure out what your intentions are.

Sigh.

Nonetheless, I'm out now, for real, have more work to do. I'll probably be back within an hour or two of EoD. I look forward to hearing from you when you DO get the chance, timmer.

[LoRab]

Until I just read MP's list, I kind of forgot LC was playing. So I checked the who's posted thingie, and he only has 1 post (only other person with 1 post, btw, is K-nuk, who isn't playing). And here's his 1 post:

If we are going to consider a policy lynch of any sort for Day 1, why not the person with the lowest posts?

You mean the player whose posts can be read with the deepest voice or the player who writes the low-down meanest posts?

I believe the word you are looking for is fewest.

G-Man is now on my list of people that I will not vote for on Day 1.

linki- are we doing a Golden Day 1 lynch? Is that what we're doing?

Statistics tell me leaving Golden alive is always bad for town. Never played a game where he didn't destroy the fuck out of the poor civs.

If it wasn't for Golden, the civilians wouldn't have won Biblical or Roger Rabbit, so... I can provide counterexamples for practically every example.

Is anyone here seriously considering a policy lynch option for Day 1? I just don't think it's wise.

Hey- Golden had a LOT of help behind the scenes. Never forget that. He was right and I was wrong about the final baddie but my lists helped serve up at least two baddies- one of which I handed to Golden on a silver platter from beyond the grave. I'd like to think that he would have had a much harder time winning that game without my help.

I will not stand for a closed-minded town on Day 1.

Then take a seat.

For the record... I was taking it all in stride. As in, I thought that everyone was pretty much joking, but I saw the potential for any of them to make it real just for fun as well. Although Metalmarsh and Golden are survival buddies right now, so I doubt either of them are inclined to lynch unless they're pretty convinced.

Anywho, I'll vote for Rorschach's Journal, because Rorschach is my favourite part of a story made of awesome parts. This quote I quoted is where I have read up to at this point, be back later.

Ironic that his first comment is on a comment (an awesome comment, btw) about fewest posts. Which manages to comment on the matter without commenting on the matter.

As importantly, he manages to say he will not vote for G-Man without having to defend him. Given the fact that I suspect G-Man, this strikes me as suspicious.

And the bulk of his post is about another game--nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but he barely makes comment on this game. Which isn't really like him.

I am still suspicious of G Man. But LC has just moved up on my suspiciometer (I guess I have 2 suspects now, lol). And I hope he posts more. I may throw him a vote just to get him to post more.

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

ping on ninja's long post...

Her finding llama's adverb idea 'interesting' and suggesting she might be willing to vote sloonei, that whole latter part of her post felt quite bandwaggony to me and not quite sincere.

The opening segment, apologizing for a long post, bothered me more-so.

Epi do you consider saying " I'm a civ" to be role claiming or info dumping?

Golly, I hope not. Every player strives to look like a civilian, and saying so should not be against the rules.

But I know you would never hear Epignosis say it as a player.

[Ricochet]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

[Scotty]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

There's the MM I remember from BoB. Intentionally vague and unhelpful when questioned about outside information.

Why even comment about it at all?

[Scotty]

If espers shows up, I want to know if he (she?) also received something, since they both voted for Manhattan's lab.

Bathroom break over, back to work.

[Marmot]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

I did.

Anything you can share with us?

No.

There's the MM I remember from BoB. Intentionally vague and unhelpful when questioned about outside information.

Why even comment about it at all?

I want to see who else benefited from the poll and what I think of them.

Linki: That too, and I think espers is a he?

[Ricochet]

Did anyone else notice how Elo seemingly jumped onto a vibes-based suspicion of Sloonei (which I held), and then dropped it, after I dropped it? What do folks think of that? I'm not sure what to make of Elo right now.

It did stand out to me that she worded her suspicion roughly the same way you did, yes. Her backing out was also far less elaborate or reasoned than yours (which followed after some dialogue with Sloonei, at least): from "Just something about him reads scummy to me. Can't put my finger on it." to "I am failing to find anything that sticks out to me as scummy." with not even a post in between.

linki: I also await to see if espers got anything, due to the voting connection.

[Marmot]

Post Links complete with gender coloring (Female/Male).

Bass_the_Clever - Posts
Cookie - Posts
DharmaHelper - Posts
Dragon D. Luffy - Posts
Elohcin - Posts
espers - Posts
G-Man - Posts
Golden - Posts
Long Con - Posts
LoRab - Posts
Metalmarsh89 - Posts
MovingPictures07 - Posts
nijuukyugou - Posts
Ricochet - Posts
Russtifinko - Posts
Scotty - Posts
Sloonei - Posts
thellama73 - Posts
timmer - Posts

[Marmot]

EBWOP: I don't actually know Scotty's gender, but I listed Scotty as male, mainly because of the name.

[DharmaHelper]

Now begins my daily catch up..

[Marmot]

Why is everyone so hyped up on the lie-detector thing? As far as I know, there is only one role that can lie-detect, and even that role (Night Owl II) can only use it once in the game. Also, Epignosis is hosting this game, so I don't believe a lie detector would be permitted to check any of the statements made in this post.

[Sloonei]

I don't suspect Sloonei for the adverbs, but there's something off about him I can't quite put my finger on, though it's possible I am way off the mark here. He's playing to his meta, but he has made a couple of statements that have struck me as him trying too hard to meet his own meta.

I know that allegation sucks, since I've been hit with it before, and it's what sunk Golden in economics because the baddies wanted him gone, but I have pointed out a couple of posts previously, and for now I'm going to take a backseat and let the Day develop while I get some stuff done, so I'm officially pushing Sloonei back to my no read section.

I missed this before. Although you've expressed a slight change of mind since (or right here in the same post), I'd still like to know where this suspicion comes from. Which particular posts/statements gave you these vibes about me?

[Marmot]

I have also decided to combine gun-to-head reads with the Rainbow Lists to create my own Smiley-Infused list. I wrote each players name down, put them into a hat, shook it up, and began selecting names. As I drew names, I would gun-to-head assign a different smiley to each player. Here is my outcome.

Bass_the_Clever
Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
G-Man
Golden
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
MovingPictures07
nijuukyugou
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
Sloonei
thellama73
timmer

[Ricochet]

^So you're buddying up to Golden?

[Golden]

I wonder what llama would have to say about all those smilies.

[Marmot]

I wonder what llama would have to say about all those smilies.

I thought about including a different adverb for each player as well.

Epignosis, is this a standard lynch poll we are voting in today?

[espers]

I didn't receive anything from the day 0 poll.

catching up with the rest of the thread now.

[Sloonei]

I have to go to work in a moment, and at this point the two strongest "pings" I've got have been frok Elo and Ninja.
Elo for how quickly she stated and abandoned a suspicion against me. She first listed me and G-man as her two early suspects. I very simply asked her to explain her suspicion of me and her response was essentially "never mind, i'm not suspicious of you." I can see this as a player (Elo) who wanted to cast suspicion on a vocal player (me) for the sake of having a suspect, but when I pressed her on it she was not prepared to back it up.

Ninja for that one big post of hers. I am not happy that the two people I've narrowed my vote down to have a combined 7 posts between them. But in ninja's posts she provided a wishy-washy fence-sitting read on G-man and also gave a suggested some pretty empty support of llama and the "adverb/smiley" theory without offering more of her own opinion beyond "I don't like Day 1s." I would like to hear a lot more from ninja on some reads and I know she is a capable player, but for now I think she's the player I feel most comfortable voting for, so I'm voting Ninjajuju.

This has been a pretty solid Day 1 but it still feels like there's a lot of people who have yet to weigh in. I hope to get some more voices in this discussion before he day's end, but I will not be able to take part in it. If anyone is having trouble coming up with things to say, just post the first thoughts that come to mind when you look at the thread. Literally anything is better than not posting.

[Sloonei]

I have also decided to combine gun-to-head reads with the Rainbow Lists to create my own Smiley-Infused list. I wrote each players name down, put them into a hat, shook it up, and began selecting names. As I drew names, I would gun-to-head assign a different smiley to each player. Here is my outcome.

Bass_the_Clever
Cookie
DharmaHelper
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
espers
G-Man
Golden
Long Con
LoRab
Metalmarsh89
MovingPictures07
nijuukyugou
Ricochet
Russtifinko
Scotty
Sloonei
thellama73
timmer

am i canadian? :o
I see now that i am, hot damn

[Marmot]

I have to go to work in a moment, and at this point the two strongest "pings" I've got have been frok Elo and Ninja.
Elo for how quickly she stated and abandoned a suspicion against me. She first listed me and G-man as her two early suspects. I very simply asked her to explain her suspicion of me and her response was essentially "never mind, i'm not suspicious of you." I can see this as a player (Elo) who wanted to cast suspicion on a vocal player (me) for the sake of having a suspect, but when I pressed her on it she was not prepared to back it up.

MP commented on this as well, but perhaps you will see it later.

[Golden]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

[Marmot]

I didn't receive anything from the day 0 poll.

catching up with the rest of the thread now.

That's interesting.

Linki: Let me take a look.

[Ricochet]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I can't say I understood too well what she meant by "comfortable", not to mention "too comfortable to be Mafia". Is it what Scotty said, i.e. laidback and responding with ease to heat?

[Sloonei]

Some other quick thoughts I have:
I have expressed vague support of G-man, but I don't necessarily have him as a town read. That said, I don't support any of the cases I have seen made against him thus far. That does not mean he should not be looked at further.

I do not wish to OMGUS thellama, but I find his case against me to be a bit weak and that is something that could become suspicious down the line, depending on how it progresses, but for now it's too early to make a judgment.

I am now 10 minutes late for work, woohoo

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, is this a standard lynch poll we are voting in today?

No. It's for a resurrection.

Jesus.

[Marmot]

Epignosis, is this a standard lynch poll we are voting in today?

No. It's for a resurrection.

Jesus.

I just wanted to be clear.

[Ricochet]

Some other quick thoughts I have:
I have expressed vague support of G-man, but I don't necessarily have him as a town read. That said, I don't support any of the cases I have seen made against him thus far. That does not mean he should not be looked at further.

I do not wish to OMGUS thellama, but I find his case against me to be a bit weak and that is something that could become suspicious down the line, depending on how it progresses, but for now it's too early to make a judgment.

I am now 10 minutes late for work, woohoo

Hmm, really? Only "vague support"? I'd say it more than that. This slightly feels like a fine tuning, for some reason.

[Marmot]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I would agree.

Looking over DDL's posts, he has enjoyed partaking in a lot of banter, and using a lot of smiley-smilies, such as and .

So yes, he certainly enjoys that, but he's not the only one. I don't think the choice of words incriminates Elohcin.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I had a full day and now I have almost 5 pages to catch up. I'll see what I can do.

If we are going to consider a policy lynch of any sort for Day 1, why not the person with the lowest posts?

You mean the player whose posts can be read with the deepest voice or the player who writes the low-down meanest posts?

I believe the word you are looking for is fewest.

How did we not have a "reading posts in deep voices" contest in Economics?

Looking at you, DDL.

You could have suggested it to me too.

In response to MP's points toward me (my laptop is old and terrible and doing this thing where it takes a half hour just to start up, and I don't feel like waiting for that just so I can format a post more easily, so this is a messy phoned-in attempt at a post), I have so far only played with a G-man that is completely light and playful in all his posts (due to those reasons I mentioned earlier), so when I came in to the thread on Day 0 and saw him being perhaps the most active person in leading the discussion, regardless of how serious he says it was at the time, it was a very noticeable change in style for him. It is too minor a point to earn him a townie label just yet, but it was the strongest read I got in any direction after 3 pages of activity. "Sincere" was probably not the right word. "Active" or "aggressive"' would have been more accurate. I will hold off on commenting on the actual content of his posts until there's more of it.

Also I never expressed my suspicion of you while you were in BoB, I only mentioned it after Epi had subbed in for you. I can't find any of the posts (i made a lot of them in that game), but my point was essentially that I felt like your response to the fake truce banter on Day 0 felt a bit too preemptively defensive. Your behavior here reminded me vaguely of that.

I've played with G-Man on Guess Who and he reall really one of the most active people. He was town in that game too.

[Golden]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I can't say I understood too well what she meant by "comfortable", not to mention "too comfortable to be Mafia". Is it what Scotty said, i.e. laidback and responding with ease to heat?

Just your gut instinct would be fine - does DDL seem comfortable to YOU, as opposed to defining what Elo means.

[Marmot]

I have to leave for work, so I will vote now so to not risk missing the deadline.

I will vote nijuukyugou, but in reality I don't have any strong baddie reads on anyone.

[Ricochet]

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I can't say I understood too well what she meant by "comfortable", not to mention "too comfortable to be Mafia". Is it what Scotty said, i.e. laidback and responding with ease to heat?

Just your gut instinct would be fine - does DDL seem comfortable to YOU, as opposed to defining what Elo means.

Comfortable doesn't mean anything to me, in terms of reading his/an alignment. But in terms of a comfortable playing, I'm seeing a more relaxed and jesting DDL compared to Guess Who, where he was more focused from the very start. But he was also bussed by his teammate before being suspected by others there, which busts a bit any meta read on him for me tbh.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Scotty why are you waiting to vote?

[Tangrowth]

Alright, I'm here. Who's around to discuss? I'm catching up now, shouldn't take long.

[LoRab]

I'm around...voting either GMan or possibly LC

[Tangrowth]

Okay, awesome. I'd like to bounce off of whoever is around, since I'm trying to sort through everything that's going on and all of the names being thrown around. Give me just a few minutes and I'll shoot off a couple of posts here.

[Golden]

OK, at this point I will say what I think.

I think Elo's read on DDL was genuine, and it makes me feel good about her.

DDL expressed in our chat room that he found being mafia difficult, particularly on this site, and we all essentially agreed that he was getting caught and looked bad because you could sense he wasn't as comfortable in the thread. Elo is aware of this because she was in that chat room.

From my perspective, her reading DDL as good because he seems comfortable is legit, based on how things went down in Guess Who.

That doesn't mean DDL is good, of course, but I do think Elo's read was legitimate and it made me feel good about her.

[Golden]

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not 'around' - I am exceedingly busy at work. I'm just catching up in any spare moment. But feel free to ask me questions, just don't expect a nice bouncy surface.

[Tangrowth]

LoRab, interesting point re: LC. He's not a no show, and we don't have any in this game, but he's the closest we have to one for sure. How long do you have to vote? How long are you willing to give LC a chance to post? What do you think of G-Man, ninja, and Sloonei?

Rico, thanks for answering. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that, I figured maybe I was just being paranoid. I'm not sure what to make of it. Do you have any thoughts on Elo re: alignment and experience with her?

Scotty, you say such behavior makes MM unhelpful. Do you think it means he is mafia?

Metalmarsh, good point about the lie detector. That's something to keep in mind. I'm curious what G-Man will have to say when he has the chance to grace us with his presence once more.

Sloonei, I will gladly elaborate on the couple of posts I have noted as feeding my earlier very slight suspicion. Check out my post here. I noted one post I thought sounded forced, and later elucidated in a post here that it seemed like you were 'trying too hard' to fit your meta, but realized that was a difficult-to-defend and sucky allegation. Also, in that post I first linked, I asked you regarding you finding me suspicious early in BoB, and I was a bit disappointed and pinged by your inability to back up your claim, since I was thinking you meant while I was in the game (not Epi 2.0), but I was willing to chalk it up to "fair enough". Consequently, I do not suspect you, even very slightly, at this time. I think what I might be detecting in your behavior that's different here is that you were a bit more aggressive in Economics. Do you agree with that assertion?

I'll ISO you at some point if I feel so inclined; if I have specific points for you to address further, I'll let you know.

Everyone: what do you all think of this post by Sloonei? What do they think of the suspicions he cast against Elo and ninja? Does anyone think that Sloonei seemed more likely to vote for Elo or more likely to vote for ninja, at the time of his post (i.e., does his vote being cast for ninja seem logical, or do you believe he had a higher propensity to cast a vote for Elo, and thus you're left wondering, why ninja?) ?

I'll post again in a bit here.