Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[DharmaHelper]

Okay, I have results. And I need to get this mf'er done.

What I want to know: For those of you who are here, which players are you considering for your vote? Why?

I'll be back in like 10-15 minutes.

Either DH or espers. Reasonings already given.

You don't believe DharmaHelper has shown town tells today? Why?

[Golden]

Also, I love how you all call the vigilante a ninja, when ninja is traditionally a completely different role.

Ninja blooper is literally actually a vigilante. Real life stories here at RM.

[Elohcin]

I am surprised to see you say you are looking at cookie. What do you see from her? I mean, I guess she COULD be bad and her team is telling her to play dumb and ask a lot of questions. But I really don't think that is the case.

I do agree with you on DH, MP. He has not seemed very civ today at all.

[DharmaHelper]

I am surprised to see you say you are looking at cookie. What do you see from her? I mean, I guess she COULD be bad and her team is telling her to play dumb and ask a lot of questions. But I really don't think that is the case.

I do agree with you on DH, MP. He has not seemed very civ today at all.

MP didn't say that.

What about me isn't reading civ to you?

[Tangrowth]

I am surprised to see you say you are looking at cookie. What do you see from her? I mean, I guess she COULD be bad and her team is telling her to play dumb and ask a lot of questions. But I really don't think that is the case.

I do agree with you on DH, MP. He has not seemed very civ today at all.

I'm trying to keep an open mind. I see a player who refuses to engage in the thread. I have tried to reach out to her at least twice now, and despite more than a few of us being friendly, encouraging her, and telling her to voice thoughts even though they may have already been voiced, she still refuses to provide content.

Her D2 vote for Golden was shifty.

I'm considering that she could be an overwhelmed mafia member. Far from sold on it. But considering.

You misunderstand about DharmaHelper. I did not say that. I asked DDL if he thought DH had exhibited town tells today.

I actually feel relatively good about DH today. I don't think I'll be voting for him.

Why has he not seemed very civ to you? What about G-Man and LC? You said you were afraid they were mafia as well. Why?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Okay, I have results. And I need to get this mf'er done.

What I want to know: For those of you who are here, which players are you considering for your vote? Why?

I'll be back in like 10-15 minutes.

Either DH or espers. Reasonings already given.

You don't believe DharmaHelper has shown town tells today? Why?

I feel there is a limit to how much flooding the thread with ISOs can make you look town, specially considering 60% of the people I suspected in the night started doing it afterwards.

Besides, I don't like the way he approached the suspicion on me. He forced the d0 joke vote thing, and then he inverted the burden of proof by saying I had to explain why I didn't vote certain players, when he hadn't explained his own d2 vote, which is hypocrite. He took a long time to explain it, only after a few people pushed him, and even then it was a pretty weak reasoning. I don't like how he spent most of d1 tunneling on random players and avoiding paying attention to the case at hand (Sloonei/ninjuu/G-Man), and then throwing a cop out vote.

As for espers, the whole issue is the terrible d1 vote. He dropped a suspicion he had on me and had never suspected Sloonei before his vote (actually defending him once). Made an useless last minute vote that did not change the outcome. He justified it by saying he wanted to limit it to the winning players, but the vote was still useless.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also MP, I posted a huge wall of text about you this afternoon and you might want to look at it.

[Scotty]

I also wonder about Scotty for reasons others have stated.

I wonder about myself all the time, so don't sweat it

[Epignosis]

juliets is replacing timmer.

[Elohcin]

I am surprised to see you say you are looking at cookie. What do you see from her? I mean, I guess she COULD be bad and her team is telling her to play dumb and ask a lot of questions. But I really don't think that is the case.

I do agree with you on DH, MP. He has not seemed very civ today at all.

MP didn't say that.

What about me isn't reading civ to you?

MP didn't say what?

I'll go ahead and throw three out there: Cookie, DDL, and espers. Everyone that is here: Are you considering any of these candidates for your vote? Why or why not?

You're just messin' with me cause you know I had very little sleep last night and cannot think straight today.

And linki with scotty I'm tellin' ya. I am not used to staying up until 2am. But we had a heck of a lot of fun. Niju is so much fun to have around. She's single too, you know.

linki again. Yay Jules!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Oh hey, Juliets, welcome. Haven't seen you since that Mafia Champions skype chat.

[DharmaHelper]

I feel there is a limit to how much flooding the thread with ISOs can make you look town, specially considering 60% of the people I suspected in the night started doing it afterwards.
You over estimate how important you are. I was going to put out my thoughts on these players regardless of what you said. I hadn't even read your suspicion of me when i made that decision.

Besides, I don't like the way he approached the suspicion on me. He forced the d0 joke vote thing, and then he inverted the burden of proof by saying I had to explain why I didn't vote certain players, when he

hadn't explained his own d2 vote, which is hypocrite.

I had explained my LC vote. I said he was the most logical vote in my view. I don't know what you mean by "forced the d0 joke vote thing". Also, you said outright you were going to look into the other three people, but you never mentioned anything else about it. I said I was going to look into people, and I delivered on that. Which of us is the hypocrite?

He took a long time to explain it, only after a few people pushed him,
Wrong.
and even then it was a pretty weak reasoning.
Wrong.
I don't like how he spent most of d1 tunneling on random players and avoiding paying attention to the case at hand (Sloonei/ninjuu/G-Man),
Wrong.
and then throwing a cop out vote.

Cop out how?

[Ricochet]

OK, so I will also resort to individual reads, based on players' lists, to make up for the phases I missed. On the bright side, it will be a colorless list and I'll try to keep it tight (post-writing edit: but utterly fail!! ).

An active Bass is a peculiar Bass in itself for me. The civviest Bass I can think of is a great reader in few words. Well, his D1 was almost his most active Day I can remember from playing with him, but also with a lot of stuff that reads fine. On the plus side, his suspicion on Sloonei which, even though he didn't carry it all the way to a vote, cultivated in way his lynch. I think his issues with Sloonei being so inquisitive (about others' opinions on him) were prior to Llama himself switching from fishing Sloonei using the adverb-smiley gambit to openly reading him as bad due to being over-defensive. I'm doubtful Bass would be mafia and create actual pretexts for the civvies to use lynch his teammate. On the minus side, his siding with LoRab on the LD issue re: G-Man, although mildly so, since he was more wary of wording than of LD detectability meta as old as the internet. His Scotty jump vote spreaded the poll to maximum at that time, but it was fairly consistent with a full day of eyeing Scotty. He hasn't kept his D1 form since, in fact his D2 is almost without any substance and his vote for MM isn't like to any actual suspicion (apart from banter), but it sounds like the four-player poll wasn't much for him to go with. So not flawless supatown, but right now leaning civ.

I'm sympathetic towards Cookie and want to reiterate what others have already said that she's adapting fine to a completely unfamiliar (for instance, not getting much in the open thread out of role checks, tracks and such) setup, but hopefully she can truly get past the overwhelmed feelings and try to give her best, whether it's reads, gut feelings, anything. The most important thing I want to stress is that, yes, I think you should state anything you want to say and that you should not give up on catching up and posting thoughts on players simply because others have already brought it up. The one post making me doubt a little that she'd be involved in a team is this one, because I remember "newbies" often getting scanned to tell if they get BTSC help and stuff like that makes me feel (along with the countless adjusting questions) she's actually on her own. Her D2 vote isn't great, but there's insuficient data to tell if she simply coasted with the general "this four-player poll isn't too effective, I'll go with my strongest suspicion" mentality or not. Neutral, but not without some qualms.

Maybe I'm truly alone with this nagging thought, but DharmaHelper at his helpiest is still on my mind for crushing the civilians back in Omerta - and I didn't even last long enough to get burned by him, given how the civs themselves didn't like my omelette too much, so I shouldn't need to be the person to keep that meta into check. He even referenced that, in an exchange with MP ("You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread."), which could normally be perfect meta. To some relief, I'm not seeing quite that level of pack leading and "helpiest" - case in point, his D2 was kinda crap and his LC vote is shoddy even after hindsight reasoning. Otherwise, I'm not picking something unusual out of his D1 pings (contrary to DDL, I can sort of appreciate "alternative route" reads when I find them substantial enough) and, though he hasn't concluded, I don't have issues with his reads today so far. Erhh not on my suspects list right now.

If we are to respect Golden's legacy reads, then DDL should normally be on the table, because admist the general "Golden's the worst of the four bunch" apathetic reasonings, he crafted and entertained a lynch case. Strangely, though, I'm rather seeing signs of a hunt gone bad. There are some creaks, otherwise. His Day 1 game was affected by RL, but his Sloonei reasoning is indeed a bit "mirroring" some suspicions expressed before, even though he claims it was gut based - if it was, I'm not reading it quite as genuine as Bass' one, for instance. I'm also curious why he finds MM to be almost as unintelligible as Vompatti and would leave it at that for now. Don't think I can call him a pure-blood civ at all, but I'm not reading him mafia either. Fool me twice, of course, if once again the more focused and hunter he seems, the more he's actually he's hiding a killer face under that straw hat.

-- Side note at this point. I can't project in such detail as up to certain roles. DH, what makes you think DDL qualifies as Moloch? What would be his interests or MO as him?

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy. The way DH wrote her synopsis so far, I'm seeing a lot of jumpiness of suspicions already laid out: G-Man and Sloonei were already slight mafia reads to MP and Llama by the time she called them as well. Her initial to and for re: Sloonei mirroring MP was documented. She also liked MP's Scotty case, as soon as he switched to that. From the Sloonei voters still alive, I'm definitely still looking at her and espers more than DDL (even though, as I mentioned, his voting wasn't too genuine either). I also think DH's point is interesting, that her voting Ninja (without ever having mentioned her) or spreading to other choices, in light of Sloonei flipping bad, would have been a disastrous baddie move, if she is baddie. Only positive move I can read is not giving into voting Golden just because his vote reads the worse. But even on D2, I already posed her some questions on her reasoning. I don't know, but I simply can't move my trust-o-meter on her an inch out of the negative zone. If not an Inmate, maybe Moloch, disinterested in where the lynch actually lands on?

espers - timing of vote and switch from DDL suck, though I'm not entirely reading his rebuttal to DDL on the switch matter as unreasonable. Missed D2 completely and I haven't picked up anything consistent from him since, except for the plan to correlate relationships with Sloonei based on posts - which is undergoing and probably not heading to a completion on this Day. Not sure what to fully make of all this; slight mafia read.

-- DH, can you point out where you noticed espers' "assertion that he suspected Sloonei all along, but did not verbalize it in the thread"? It would make me suspect espers more as well, but I can't seem to find it. --

Long Con - Back on track after D1 and I can't say I have issues with his leads. His pick of the Eloh suspicion was a bit of a grab from what others posted (namely, me), but afterwards he developed it into an actual debate whether both Sloonei did hard distancing or planting for a mislynched. His D2 Golden vote was as sketchy as all the others that were in the "X is the short straw of the four" format. No beef with him, so far.

LoRab - Short and sweet, I ultimately don't like her LD debate build-up and push on G-Man, because I remember somebody pointing out (although I fail to remember who, right now) that the issues she had - with the lie detectability of statements such as those made by G-Man on previous websites or with G-Man way of wording and careful gameplay on the same previous website - were actually no issues at all, which makes me not understand why she would bring them up as issues. Also, her vote for Golden stinks the most, timing and reasoning alike: Golden's use of the "I'm a very important civ" defense is scummy? I've been through Biblical where this defense was used twice and I've succesfully refrained from lynching either players (who flipped civ in the end; they even flipped the role they hinted at, too). Plus, she went more for the thrills of watching a tiebreak unfold, rather than strongly believing in her lynch choice. I don't know her gaming ways, I can tell she likes to take on heat and act hardcore, but I can't say I trust her one bit so far. I'd consider voting her.

MetalMarsh89 - Here's my take on it. I know two baddie versions of MM, from experience. One that takes heat on, can be confrontational, can self-vote, can end up lynched (eventually) without leaving that many crumbs to his teammates [Film Directors] and one that can spam and fluff and be incessantly random, can self-vote, can attract lynches and/or kills, yet intentionally so due to high abilities [Death Note]. Both explanations can be valid in this game, if you think for a sec - I'm particularly intrigued by the idea (LC's was it) that he could be the Comedian, although it doesn't feel like he actually rused the baddies as much as basically everyone, so I'm not buying it. For some reason, I'm inclined to see his baddie game in this one.

Russtifinko - He was at 10 posts when I returned to Mafia this afternoon, out of which I got absolutely nada, and has evolved so far with 4 more meatier posts. My only meta from ever playing with him (in Donner, where he was and remained a pure-blood civ) was being active from D0 and taking heat on some controversial views, without getting lynched in the process. (I don't remember much besides that, because I was "evicted" early). Overall, if he intends to get on board from now on, I'll all for that. No beef with his content so far, neutral.

Timmer - LINKI: bye timmer

G-Man: |


MP: :̡͇͎̼͍̲̺̫̩͓̑̋̊͆͌̒̈́̿̏͗|̢̛̦̟̬͖͕̺̬͔͗̾͗̂̆́̊̔̚ͅ|̢̧̻̭̗͍̙̰͇̦̊̇̄̇̿̄̐͊̚͝


I'm sorry, I'd really want to offer eloquent reads on them as well, but it's 3am and I don't think I can wrap it up. I have to confess G-Man's out-of-sync with real-time phases catch-up were indeed slightly tortouos and I got nothing out of them except for his criticism of MP - I understand his need to go through them after losing initial content, nevertheless... I can't read much baddieness into him at the moment, but I can hardly elaborate on that either. Neutral. Some of the points made about MP are interesting, but it wouldn't be fair is for me to simply coast on them right now, because I'm unable to finish synthesize his posts due to the amount and the time I have left; suffice to say I had a vibe, back on D1 endgame, that his hesitation to decide on a right voting choice, up until Scotty's actions displeased him into switching to him, could be interpreted both ways. But I should really find a way to elaborate my own read based on this and anything else. I can try to re-read in the time that's left, unless I'll have to participate in more discussion (which I imagine I will), but not much hope.

[Tangrowth]

Sorry I couldn't be more active this Day phase, folks. PhD work is a demanding mistress. 12+ hour days are the bane of my existence.

Here are some responses to posts as I've properly caught up:

Spoiler: show

Big post about MP's suspicion/vote history on D1. I said I'd have to analyse it so I'm doing it.

*insert quotes and stuff here* view original post for detail

Ok, I'll stop the quotes because this is already big enough.

The bottomline is, everything MP said can be called reasonable. He came up with a credible explanation for his every move, and had a very rational approach to the phase.

But when you look at the big picture, I see something that can be interpreted as the progression of a baddie. He states a suspicion on Sloonei when the case is almost non-existant, which could be a safe form of distancing. Then he quickly drops it, and spents the phase having views that keep up with the general opinion of other players. MP suspects ninja and G-Man with the others, but never makes a decision. As the phase comes close to and end, he starts suspecing Scotty, someone he hadn't said anything about before, and drops a vote that it's pretty much impossible to result in a lynch, making it a safe vote. So, as a whole

I'm moving him to my "slightly mafia" camp. I've never actually seen baddie MP so I don't know how he operates, but mimicking his supatown way of playing and making huge ass analysis while not actually forming an opinion is how I'd expect him to do it.

Dragon D. Luffy, thanks for examining my posts. I was hoping someone would do this.

Do you have any questions for me, given your analysis? I read it all, relatively quickly, and while it inevitably had your subjective lens of trying to see if my actions had mafia explanations, I think you overall did a good job.

As I noted earlier, it is generally my mafia meta to, especially under pressure of the early game, throw my teammates under the bus, rather than defend them. What you consider I did here with Sloonei would be sloppy and not like my meta. That said, obviously, that's WIFOM. I realize it's WIFOM. And I realize that I'm prone to mistakes and always willing to change up my style and approach from game to game. But I at least wanted it said.

Also, I must call out the bolded/underlined. Do you not believe I formed opinions? I believe I did.

Spoiler: show

Ricochet- that actually makes a lot more sense now that you've explained it. No worries- you didn't leave enough to make a determination on you yet anyway. Take all the time you like.

I was admittedly torn on whether to add the reasons for votes to my technicolor lists or not. Over-reliance on raw data only gets you so far and my assessments from the technicolor lists lacked the context of each player's content. I'm not very good with reading people (at least not for the first three or four days) and I'd like to get better but I just don't have the time to commit to re-reading the thread and doing these ISO's every lynch cycle. I thought including the reasons might help add some context but you are right in that it can get subjective. I may drop the reasons from future lists but I will probably keep track of the reasons people vote in my spreadsheet in case anyone slips up in that area. Looking for and adding the reasons was more time-consuming than I thought too. Maybe I'm just too much of an in-the-moment player. Who knows.

G-Man, for the future, I have a suggestion. Take it or leave it, but thought I'd offer it. I vote that you keep the reasons out of the analysis, but perhaps in a separate post (or a separate part of the same post), you can link or provide subjective summaries as you did here, to keep the more 'objective' analysis separate from the 'subjective'.

Spoiler: show

Ok! I am back from hiking. And it seems like it went a lot better than Rico's - my only injury is a mild sunburn on both knees, of all places. Hope you get better soon!

Anyway, despite my best intentions, the first thing I did when I reached my apartment was catch up. So here are my responses to things I noticed. I'll try to break it up to avoid being mega-posty.

First off, RIP Scotty, llama, Golden, and Ninja Blooper. I don't have any reason to think any of you were bad, and all of you could have been huge assets. Pretty rough 2-day stretch following the hot start.

And I think llama may have been the comedian. It's why he went all supatown.

I know Golden is dead, but MP and a number of others have echoed the sentiment, so maybe one of you could answer. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the logic here. doesn't llama using the Comedian's NK so early because he was being NK'ed himself presuppose that he knew he was going to be NK'ed? I've never played a game where hosts tell players in advance they're going to be NK'ed.

That said, the self-certainty of the move is reminiscent of llama, but I don't think this role match is the sure thing some people re making it out to be.

EBWOP: it should be noted that MANY of Elo's posts on Day 1 were interactions with Sloonei. Would a teammate be more likely to engage heavily with Sloonei or avoid interacting with him?

Regarding this and your review of her posts, I think she'd be less likely to interact significantly with a baddie teammate. Between this and the D1 vote timing, I'm feeling better about having backed off of Elo on Day 1.

I self-voted. I don't feel comfortable voting anyone else right now, and I have to place my vote now.

Metalmarsh, i'd like to know your rationale for this. I saw in rym #86 that you like your WIFOM, but I can't really make any sense of a person self-voting from my perspective. were you really that afraid of missing the vote?

I can think of one very good reason.

So I'm reading this as you saying MM is playing the "Don't kill me, Mr. Rorschach, sir!" angle. Is that right, or are you suggesting there's more to it?

Spoiler: show

SO I have yet to read anything past my last post which was in reference to niju being killed. Her death saddens me. She is too cool to be killed off so early. Anyway....that said, I just want to say how much I hate these rainbow lists. Find me suspicious if you want but I haven't liked them from the beginning. MP ranks Niju as his top read of civilian and then she dies. It's like saying...."hey baddies, this is the person you should kill next." I know I have picked on you a lot this game MP. I don't mean anything by it, really. Your list the just the one I found first.

- nijuukyugou is my new top read, and I'm willing to take a strong stand. She seems consistently genuine, her hesitance to pile onto Golden today bodes well, and her vote from D1 still stands out as very strong. That said, I hope to see even more baddie hunting from her. And I still am going to continue to examine and question her intentions as much as everyone else, if not even more so, but right now I have to admit that she looks better than all the rest of you.

Okay, so I just wanted to mention that. I have to get back to school now and do a little housework and then I will catch up on everything that's been said so far today. I have a splitting headache from staying up until 2am with Epi and Niju. I am SO old! And I didn't even have one drop to drink. Epi drank beer all evening and is totally fine. I don't get it.

The beer preserves him, Elo!

MP, sorry man, but I have to agree with Elo on this one. I get that you need to express your thoughts, but I think posting an absolute top civ read is detrimental to our cause. You're one of the most vocal players, which gives you a lot of clout, and (assuming for the moment you're civ) you joining forces with any other strong player would terrify most baddies. It seems an easy call for them to eliminate that person because it makes them a bigger threat. I think you could do just as much good and less harm by posting a general list of civ reads without singling out one person as the most civ ever.

Russ, thanks for your thoughts.

I personally wasn't saying Llama knew he would die; rather, he probably highly suspected he would die, since he had arguably the highest amount of civilian cred leaving the Day 1 lynch result, since he initiated suspicion of Sloonei, voted for him, and generally was not considered to have suspicion surrounding him in the slightest. Knowing Llama, I bet he thought he'd probably die, so he used his kill, thinking he wouldn't want to lose the chance if he did perish.

I appreciate what you and Elo have said about the Rainbow Lists. I know they're a love/hate thing to begin with. I suppose if everyone was creating them, and I wasn't posting A TON of content, my argument would make more sense. I'll try editing my approach going forward to concentrate on the bottom half of my list in detail, leaving the top half ambiguously in the same group. We'll see how that goes. What do you think?

Also, Russ, in a response to G-Man's vote analysis, you said this:

Spoiler: show

Please note that these analyses are based off looking for the Inmates only. In my short time back in action, I don't think I've played enough games with serial killers (I'm assuming that's what we're classifying Moloch as) to get back in the groove of sniffing them out. This setup is very difficult because the typical mafia team (the Inmates) only has three members. Considering we caught one of those three members on Day 1, it is going to be very difficult to track the other two. We have to look for small patterns and vote sequences that might suggest a collaborative effort between two players.

Day 1 vote data is in the spoiler tag. Please look refer to it as you read over my assessments.

*insert data analysis, see original G-Man post for detail*

What I infer from the Day 1 votes:

-I'm still not sure what to make of Timmer's self-vote. I like the warning about possibly pulling a Deborah but would he try that shtick again so soon?

-There is potential for espers to be Sloonei's teammate and he wanted to or was encouraged to throw that final vote on Sloonei for the cred. I like what espers said about feeling something was off about Sloonei. They have played elsewhere before, right? Knowing meta is a powerful item on the tool belt, so I feel compelled to respect that. This leaves me feeling only neutral on espers, unlike the other Sloonei voters.

-LoRab's vote on me came before Sloonei picked up any votes. This is important because we should look for desperate votes after the Sloonei train picks up steam. LoRab focused on the LD issue in regards to my post. I already looked suspicious before any of that because I was more aggressive, assertive, and less playful than usual. Rather than trying to use the "he's different and that's sus" angle that had been mentioned, she comes at it from an angle with a unique twist by suggesting I was trying to evade the LD power. To let my tin-foil hatted hamster out of his cage for a moment, consider this: Both Sloonei vote and LoRab's vote came before Sloonei had any votes. Sure there was discussion but could it be that the two of them are teammates and they tried to divide and conquer by voting for two potential victims that could attract more votes. Unfortunately for them, any momentum for Niju and myself died down as the momentum on Sloonei ramped up.

-Russ's vote for me was crap but not crap enough for me to shift him off of a neutral read.

-After this we have MP07 joining in on Bass's vote for Scotty. MP07 went from being cordial with Scotty, to asking a question or two, to doubting the sincerity of his contributions and the soundness of his vote for Elo. He openly agrees with Bass and then adds a few more points for other people to consider. This after his suspicion of Sloonei eroded bit by bit over the course of the day. In short, MP07 seems to have built a case on why Scotty is suspicious while also posting several points on why Sloonei probably shouldn't be suspicious. All this occurs as MP07 votes for Scotty, making it a 3-2-2 race between Sloonei, Niju, and Scotty. With Niju being NK'd by the Inmates, we know that MP07 adding Scotty to the mix wasn't an attempt to save Niju. Could it have been an attempt to save Sloonei?

Something where someone was talking about me seems like the easiest place to sink my teeth in. Here goes. (I edited the quote above for length, so only the parts I'm responding to are there):

G-Man, this vote analysis format is cool, but I'm not totally understanding your color scheme here. Maybe you could provide a key for those of us new to this?

You're slightly mischaracterizing my vote here in saying I ONLY voted for you in order to not vote Elo, with no other reasoning. I thought (and still think) it was strange that you were so circumspect with your wording.

That said, your numerous explanations have made me feel a little better about it. More to the point, this is my first game seeing you post words, and your style over the last few days definitely cements you in my mind as a very careful thinker and something of a microanalyzer. So I think now that the careful wording is probably just in character for you.

Re: your timmer explanation, what is a Deborah?

I'd have to read espers to develop an opinion there, since I don't have one as of my first thread read-through.

I'm not really buying the LoRab angle on the D1 vote. You're saying you think two baddie teammates tried to start lynch trains on two separate people to save Sloonei before she got any votes? With only 3 of them total, it seems crazy to me that they'd split up their voting power so early if they thought Sloonei might need defending.

To me, honestly Golden's vote looks the worst here, and we know Golden was civ. So I guess at this point I'm a bit skeptical about MP's "treasure trove of D1 evidence" claim. I think MP's vote looks bad at first glance, because it came in late-ish for a non-Sloonei but early enough to be a very, very long-shot save attempt. However, throwing teammates under the bus is something MP has added to his game more recently, and it would have made more sense to try that here than to go for the save IMO. Also, MP's content has felt super classic good-guy MP to me so far.

So if anything, to me the currently most suspicious D1 vote is espers. Keep in mind, a baddie voting late in a lynch for a teammate actually has a LOWER risk than a civ doing the same thing, because they know they won't end up on Rorschach's hit list.

Linki: I dunno. I suppose Elo could be bad, but when she voted Sloonei it was tied up with Blooper. I dunno if I see a mafia Elo giving up on a teammate so early.

What I'm dying to know is, can you elaborate fully on what occurred in your thought process to make you say this:

Spoiler: show

Hmmm, having read back on espers he seems above-board to me so far. What he's brought to the discussion has been open and well-reasoned.

But idk who IS suspicious yet today. I feel like I'm stating back at Square One after missing yesterday - most of my reads so far are just slight gut and my "I always think _____ is ____." type stuff.

Do you still believe espers has the worst looking vote of D1?

Do you believe his post content cancels out the bad vote?

What is the propensity with which you'd consider an espers vote? Any other players?

Regarding Deborah, timmer was busy during the Biblical game, but because it was sockpuppet and he had seen players skate by in that game and other games before by constantly being in 'catch up' mode, he purposefully played the entire game in 'catch up' mode, to see how long he could get away with it. He was mafia.

Spoiler: show

If you'll notice, Golden did not have Blooper first on his rainbow list. In fact, I'm the only one that called her my top read, if I recall correctly (and I'm pretty sure about this).

It's possible the mafia are fucking with me by killing off my top reads (they killed llama N1 and Blooper N2, both of my top reads), but to automatically think that the mafia are blindly following the opinions of just ONE individual is not worth cancelling my rainbow reads. I want everyone to know everything that I'm thinking.

I hate to even say this b/c I really feel like you are civilian. But, it could be that you are Mafia and killing off your own top reads.

'Sticking with Elo' meant voting her for her back and forth on Sloonei, which I still found odd at that time. She even decided to go along with Sloonei with roughly 10 minutes to go, after returning for the deadline with 30 minutes to go, making it hard for me to inquire her properly in the time left.

It was actually an hour before days end and it was a sufficient amount of time to read the thread and vote. I had originally said that sloonei gave me a scummy vibe. He challenged me to reread him. I did and found nothing notably scummy in his posts when reading them separately from he thread. So, I told him I would table my thoughts on him for the day. After getting back from my day out with the family, I read his posts while I was gone and they were definitely scummy IMO. I voted him. That was it.

Eloh Thoughts:

Early on, very jokey

Civ reads on Cookie/DDL/MP/Golden

Uneasy reads on G-Man/Sloonei

Backtracks on Sloonei suspicion

Returns to it as a "save herself" option

Likes MP's Scotty case

ends up voting for Sloonei

More jokey

Theory that there MUST be a baddie among the poll of four

LC jumps out to her as most suspect/fishy

Then she is "on the fence" RE:LC

Votes for MM for his self voting

As for "very jokey", I like to have fun in Mafia. I have said this over and over again. It is like my only adult interaction. I know that is sad. I already explained my back and forth on sloonei several times. As for the "four on the poll" I thought Epi put those names on there but I was corrected that another player picked them. That made more sense. Just b/c I think LC is the most suspicious of the four doesn't mean I cannot be "on the fence" about him at the same time. Once I found out that it was possible that none of the four were bad, I wasn't comfortable voting LC. I voted MM for voting himself b/c I think voting one's self is stupid.

Elo, don't worry. I'm glad you said that, regardless of what you think of me. I think we should consider every possibility. Yes, I could be doing that. I'm not, but I think you shouldn't take anyone's word for anything, and instead make your own evaluation of what you think is occurring.

Regarding mafia being your sole adult interaction, I can heavily empathize. :P I interact with Daisy... occasionally my folks in my PhD cohort, but 99% of the time only when I'm already on campus for classes or a meeting. Otherwise, this is my sole social adult interaction 99% of the time. It's why I almost constantly play, despite having a ton of stuff to do.

Linki: Posting, then reading.

[DharmaHelper]

I am surprised to see you say you are looking at cookie. What do you see from her? I mean, I guess she COULD be bad and her team is telling her to play dumb and ask a lot of questions. But I really don't think that is the case.

I do agree with you on DH, MP. He has not seemed very civ today at all.

MP didn't say that.

What about me isn't reading civ to you?

MP didn't say what?

I'll go ahead and throw three out there: Cookie, DDL, and espers. Everyone that is here: Are you considering any of these candidates for your vote? Why or why not?

You're just messin' with me cause you know I had very little sleep last night and cannot think straight today.

And linki with scotty I'm tellin' ya. I am not used to staying up until 2am. But we had a heck of a lot of fun. Niju is so much fun to have around. She's single too, you know.

linki again. Yay Jules!

MP never said that.

Linki - I got a dick bro.

[Elohcin]

My uneasiness of G-Man and LC stem from earlier on in the game and the fact that they really haven;t been present lately. I will go back and look at DH and tell you some specifics. I'm telling you though, I might as well just shut up, b/c I feel like I cannot make a post without some kind of flaw. I am misunderstanding y'all left and right, sorry.

Woah linki

[timmer]

Many thanks, Epi and Juliets. Sorry guys, I should never have signed up!

[DharmaHelper]

Catching up. Gonna reply to this along the way:

Silk Spectre wants to stay alive long enough to find the roles she is looking for. If I were her, I'd help whatever faction seemed to be losing at the moment. If town starts winning too hard, I could see her helping mafia.

The Comedian would benefit from looking very civ, since he has to be night killed. So he is likely the most pro-civ one. But he still has a separate wincon, and might change sides if town starts winning too hard.

Nite Owl has a wincon that looks very pro-civ. He will be helping us at start. But if his dad is still alive and he has a chance to help hammer a civ lynch to end the game, he will. Likewise, if he kills the guy he has to kill, but his wincon means he has to survive till the end of the game, he will want the game to end faster.

Rorschach is a serial killer. He will kill anyone in his list, regardless of the alignment. Whether that helps town or not will depend on our luck.

The others are a mystery.

not a fan of this exchange, particularly the last post. it feels like ddl is fluffing here; we don't have any info on the watchmen roles besides what's in the op and speculating on them isn't useful right now, imo.

espers's take on DDL reminds me that he wasn't appreciated for doing extensive player reads in Guess Who (but back then I think it was already Day 2 and Roxy, one of his critics, had already read him as scum during the previous night, so not a perfect analogy). Although he addressed only the four Watchmen that don't have secrets in their description, so I'm not sure what she found wrong in DDL speculating, either.

dedicating posts to talking about the setup without actually connecting anything to specific players' content is often just a way to blend in and look involved without stepping on any toes, ime. also has potential to distract others from looking for sus behaviour.

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I guess it's understandable that you'd want to take that approach in a setup like this. I still think there's a time and a place for that kind of speculation though, and day 1 when almost nothing has happened is not it.

what do you make of Golden's response to this?

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I agree with DDL's view here. I think espers perspective may be culture shock - he is used to closed setup. In an open setup, people aren't going to be claiming roles, and it is often useful to the civilians to discuss and analyse roles and how they might be used - it can help make sense of what is happening in the game.

As for espers, he spent most of the phase suspecting me, as shown in the two posts from him I quoted above.

sorry if this is weird and out-of-game, but I've noticed Elohcin viewing the thread a few times, but she's keeping quiet. anything you'd like to say? who's your preferred lynch candidate right now?

actually, that can go for everyone. pretend the day ends at xx:40 instead of xx:00. who would you vote for?

i'd go for DDL.

linki: that's fair, it's not exactly a tight case. I still feel he's the most suspicious player so far, though.

Later, he even says he is probably going to vote me, and that I'm his most suspicious player.

voted sloonei

In response to MP's points toward me (my laptop is old and terrible and doing this thing where it takes a half hour just to start up, and I don't feel like waiting for that just so I can format a post more easily, so this is a messy phoned-in attempt at a post), I have so far only played with a G-man that is completely light and playful in all his posts (due to those reasons I mentioned earlier), so when I came in to the thread on Day 0 and saw him being perhaps the most active person in leading the discussion, regardless of how serious he says it was at the time, it was a very noticeable change in style for him. It is too minor a point to earn him a townie label just yet, but it was the strongest read I got in any direction after 3 pages of activity. "Sincere" was probably not the right word. "Active" or "aggressive"' would have been more accurate. I will hold off on commenting on the actual content of his posts until there's more of it.

Also I never expressed my suspicion of you while you were in BoB, I only mentioned it after Epi had subbed in for you. I can't find any of the posts (i made a lot of them in that game), but my point was essentially that I felt like your response to the fake truce banter on Day 0 felt a bit too preemptively defensive. Your behavior here reminded me vaguely of that.

didn't buy mp's original suspicion but this defence feels overwrought. not a strong case but I've gotta be decisive. i'm not feeling good about nijuu as I said before.

Then suddenly, with one minute left in the phase, he votes Sloonei. He quotes a post from Sloonei, parrots what other people said about Sloonei's defense being overthought, and casts a vote that did not actually change anything in the lynch, since Sloonei was already in the lead.

What is worse, is that he had never said anything about suspecting Sloonei before that. In fact, he had defended him:

that said I don't agree with the adverb/smiley arguments against sloonei, seems like a style thing more than anything.

So what's up with the change of heart? If you had voted based on what you were saying, you should have voted for me, not Sloonei. I wasn't active at all on day 1 (due to my own RL issues), and I didn't even reply your accusations against me, so what made you stop wanting to vote me?

you're missing the context here; it was almost the end of the day and a close tally, between nijuu and Sloonei. voting you at that point would be pointless, I thought it'd be better to go for one of those. i'd said before that I didn't see the case on nijuu at all, so that left Sloonei. what's more, I had suspected sloonei earlier, though I didn't say it.

I didn't say anything earlier because the source of my suspicion was slight, based entirely on tone, and I didn't think it would bring anything new to the table.

also, I wasn't defending Sloonei, I said I disagreed with casing based on adverb and smiley usage, which in themselves I consider to be null tells.

Also, espers, what say you about the discrepancy between you and MM about getting something/nothing after the Day 0 vote?

not sure exactly where the line is regarding infodumping, someone let me know if I overstep it here. I was under the impression that MM getting information (assuming it's true) came about because of the option that led the tally in that vote rather than where he voted. in that regard I don't think he's an explicitly antitown role, but i'm not sure he's pro-civ.

[Golden]

Many thanks, Epi and Juliets. Sorry guys, I should never have signed up!

He even posts in blue.

Timme, never lose the sadness avatar, it's epic.

[Tangrowth]

Welcome, juliets!! I'm really glad I get to play with you again before I return from the honeymoon. Whenever you get a chance to provide your thoughts, they would be incredibly appreciated.

Okay, I have results. And I need to get this mf'er done.

What I want to know: For those of you who are here, which players are you considering for your vote? Why?

I'll be back in like 10-15 minutes.

Either DH or espers. Reasonings already given.

You don't believe DharmaHelper has shown town tells today? Why?

I feel there is a limit to how much flooding the thread with ISOs can make you look town, specially considering 60% of the people I suspected in the night started doing it afterwards.

Besides, I don't like the way he approached the suspicion on me. He forced the d0 joke vote thing, and then he inverted the burden of proof by saying I had to explain why I didn't vote certain players, when he hadn't explained his own d2 vote, which is hypocrite. He took a long time to explain it, only after a few people pushed him, and even then it was a pretty weak reasoning. I don't like how he spent most of d1 tunneling on random players and avoiding paying attention to the case at hand (Sloonei/ninjuu/G-Man), and then throwing a cop out vote.

As for espers, the whole issue is the terrible d1 vote. He dropped a suspicion he had on me and had never suspected Sloonei before his vote (actually defending him once). Made an useless last minute vote that did not change the outcome. He justified it by saying he wanted to limit it to the winning players, but the vote was still useless.

Re: the bolded and underlined

You don't think DharmaHelper's behavior is consistent with what RL/posts he's provided? He did detail that he would be busy, then warned us he would have opinions on every player during Day 3. Yet you find him suspicious for delivering on his promise of contributing reads?

[Ricochet]

Thanks, DH.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

OK, so I will also resort to individual reads, based on players' lists, to make up for the phases I missed. On the bright side, it will be a colorless list and I'll try to keep it tight (post-writing edit: but utterly fail!! ).

An active Bass is a peculiar Bass in itself for me. The civviest Bass I can think of is a great reader in few words. Well, his D1 was almost his most active Day I can remember from playing with him, but also with a lot of stuff that reads fine. On the plus side, his suspicion on Sloonei which, even though he didn't carry it all the way to a vote, cultivated in way his lynch. I think his issues with Sloonei being so inquisitive (about others' opinions on him) were prior to Llama himself switching from fishing Sloonei using the adverb-smiley gambit to openly reading him as bad due to being over-defensive. I'm doubtful Bass would be mafia and create actual pretexts for the civvies to use lynch his teammate. On the minus side, his siding with LoRab on the LD issue re: G-Man, although mildly so, since he was more wary of wording than of LD detectability meta as old as the internet. His Scotty jump vote spreaded the poll to maximum at that time, but it was fairly consistent with a full day of eyeing Scotty. He hasn't kept his D1 form since, in fact his D2 is almost without any substance and his vote for MM isn't like to any actual suspicion (apart from banter), but it sounds like the four-player poll wasn't much for him to go with. So not flawless supatown, but right now leaning civ.

I'm sympathetic towards Cookie and want to reiterate what others have already said that she's adapting fine to a completely unfamiliar (for instance, not getting much in the open thread out of role checks, tracks and such) setup, but hopefully she can truly get past the overwhelmed feelings and try to give her best, whether it's reads, gut feelings, anything. The most important thing I want to stress is that, yes, I think you should state anything you want to say and that you should not give up on catching up and posting thoughts on players simply because others have already brought it up. The one post making me doubt a little that she'd be involved in a team is this one, because I remember "newbies" often getting scanned to tell if they get BTSC help and stuff like that makes me feel (along with the countless adjusting questions) she's actually on her own. Her D2 vote isn't great, but there's insuficient data to tell if she simply coasted with the general "this four-player poll isn't too effective, I'll go with my strongest suspicion" mentality or not. Neutral, but not without some qualms.

Maybe I'm truly alone with this nagging thought, but DharmaHelper at his helpiest is still on my mind for crushing the civilians back in Omerta - and I didn't even last long enough to get burned by him, given how the civs themselves didn't like my omelette too much, so I shouldn't need to be the person to keep that meta into check. He even referenced that, in an exchange with MP ("You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread."), which could normally be perfect meta. To some relief, I'm not seeing quite that level of pack leading and "helpiest" - case in point, his D2 was kinda crap and his LC vote is shoddy even after hindsight reasoning. Otherwise, I'm not picking something unusual out of his D1 pings (contrary to DDL, I can sort of appreciate "alternative route" reads when I find them substantial enough) and, though he hasn't concluded, I don't have issues with his reads today so far. Erhh not on my suspects list right now.

If we are to respect Golden's legacy reads, then DDL should normally be on the table, because admist the general "Golden's the worst of the four bunch" apathetic reasonings, he crafted and entertained a lynch case. Strangely, though, I'm rather seeing signs of a hunt gone bad. There are some creaks, otherwise. His Day 1 game was affected by RL, but his Sloonei reasoning is indeed a bit "mirroring" some suspicions expressed before, even though he claims it was gut based - if it was, I'm not reading it quite as genuine as Bass' one, for instance. I'm also curious why he finds MM to be almost as unintelligible as Vompatti and would leave it at that for now. Don't think I can call him a pure-blood civ at all, but I'm not reading him mafia either. Fool me twice, of course, if once again the more focused and hunter he seems, the more he's actually he's hiding a killer face under that straw hat.

-- Side note at this point. I can't project in such detail as up to certain roles. DH, what makes you think DDL qualifies as Moloch? What would be his interests or MO as him?

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy. The way DH wrote her synopsis so far, I'm seeing a lot of jumpiness of suspicions already laid out: G-Man and Sloonei were already slight mafia reads to MP and Llama by the time she called them as well. Her initial to and for re: Sloonei mirroring MP was documented. She also liked MP's Scotty case, as soon as he switched to that. From the Sloonei voters still alive, I'm definitely still looking at her and espers more than DDL (even though, as I mentioned, his voting wasn't too genuine either). I also think DH's point is interesting, that her voting Ninja (without ever having mentioned her) or spreading to other choices, in light of Sloonei flipping bad, would have been a disastrous baddie move, if she is baddie. Only positive move I can read is not giving into voting Golden just because his vote reads the worse. But even on D2, I already posed her some questions on her reasoning. I don't know, but I simply can't move my trust-o-meter on her an inch out of the negative zone. If not an Inmate, maybe Moloch, disinterested in where the lynch actually lands on?

espers - timing of vote and switch from DDL suck, though I'm not entirely reading his rebuttal to DDL on the switch matter as unreasonable. Missed D2 completely and I haven't picked up anything consistent from him since, except for the plan to correlate relationships with Sloonei based on posts - which is undergoing and probably not heading to a completion on this Day. Not sure what to fully make of all this; slight mafia read.

-- DH, can you point out where you noticed espers' "assertion that he suspected Sloonei all along, but did not verbalize it in the thread"? It would make me suspect espers more as well, but I can't seem to find it. --

Long Con - Back on track after D1 and I can't say I have issues with his leads. His pick of the Eloh suspicion was a bit of a grab from what others posted (namely, me), but afterwards he developed it into an actual debate whether both Sloonei did hard distancing or planting for a mislynched. His D2 Golden vote was as sketchy as all the others that were in the "X is the short straw of the four" format. No beef with him, so far.

LoRab - Short and sweet, I ultimately don't like her LD debate build-up and push on G-Man, because I remember somebody pointing out (although I fail to remember who, right now) that the issues she had - with the lie detectability of statements such as those made by G-Man on previous websites or with G-Man way of wording and careful gameplay on the same previous website - were actually no issues at all, which makes me not understand why she would bring them up as issues. Also, her vote for Golden stinks the most, timing and reasoning alike: Golden's use of the "I'm a very important civ" defense is scummy? I've been through Biblical where this defense was used twice and I've succesfully refrained from lynching either players (who flipped civ in the end; they even flipped the role they hinted at, too). Plus, she went more for the thrills of watching a tiebreak unfold, rather than strongly believing in her lynch choice. I don't know her gaming ways, I can tell she likes to take on heat and act hardcore, but I can't say I trust her one bit so far. I'd consider voting her.

MetalMarsh89 - Here's my take on it. I know two baddie versions of MM, from experience. One that takes heat on, can be confrontational, can self-vote, can end up lynched (eventually) without leaving that many crumbs to his teammates [Film Directors] and one that can spam and fluff and be incessantly random, can self-vote, can attract lynches and/or kills, yet intentionally so due to high abilities [Death Note]. Both explanations can be valid in this game, if you think for a sec - I'm particularly intrigued by the idea (LC's was it) that he could be the Comedian, although it doesn't feel like he actually rused the baddies as much as basically everyone, so I'm not buying it. For some reason, I'm inclined to see his baddie game in this one.

Russtifinko - He was at 10 posts when I returned to Mafia this afternoon, out of which I got absolutely nada, and has evolved so far with 4 more meatier posts. My only meta from ever playing with him (in Donner, where he was and remained a pure-blood civ) was being active from D0 and taking heat on some controversial views, without getting lynched in the process. (I don't remember much besides that, because I was "evicted" early). Overall, if he intends to get on board from now on, I'll all for that. No beef with his content so far, neutral.

Timmer - LINKI: bye timmer

G-Man: |


MP: :̡͇͎̼͍̲̺̫̩͓̑̋̊͆͌̒̈́̿̏͗|̢̛̦̟̬͖͕̺̬͔͗̾͗̂̆́̊̔̚ͅ|̢̧̻̭̗͍̙̰͇̦̊̇̄̇̿̄̐͊̚͝


I'm sorry, I'd really want to offer eloquent reads on them as well, but it's 3am and I don't think I can wrap it up. I have to confess G-Man's out-of-sync with real-time phases catch-up were indeed slightly tortouos and I got nothing out of them except for his criticism of MP - I understand his need to go through them after losing initial content, nevertheless... I can't read much baddieness into him at the moment, but I can hardly elaborate on that either. Neutral. Some of the points made about MP are interesting, but it wouldn't be fair is for me to simply coast on them right now, because I'm unable to finish synthesize his posts due to the amount and the time I have left; suffice to say I had a vibe, back on D1 endgame, that his hesitation to decide on a right voting choice, up until Scotty's actions displeased him into switching to him, could be interpreted both ways. But I should really find a way to elaborate my own read based on this and anything else. I can try to re-read in the time that's left, unless I'll have to participate in more discussion (which I imagine I will), but not much hope.

Rico, this list is heavily appreciated. I am reading in detail now.

Quick: Which players are you considering for a vote today and why?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

"He is the most logical vote in my view" isn't an explanation. It's the same thing as saying "I'm gonna vote LC because I'm gonna vote LC".

I'm not gonna say you only did it because of me, but the point is, making ISOs to make people think you're less suspicious is something that can be done. As a matter of fact, most of my suspects right now are high content players, so I'm not seeing it as a civ tell.

And it was a cop out vote in the sense it didn't change anything in the lynch, nor placed you under any risk of lynching a civilian, or a possible mafia partner. Whether the cop out was intentional or not it's what I'm trying to figure out. The vote itself is not a crime, but adds to the feeling that you were intentionally staying away from the game, something your d2 vote also does.

[Tangrowth]

My uneasiness of G-Man and LC stem from earlier on in the game and the fact that they really haven;t been present lately. I will go back and look at DH and tell you some specifics. I'm telling you though, I might as well just shut up, b/c I feel like I cannot make a post without some kind of flaw. I am misunderstanding y'all left and right, sorry.

Woah linki

Re: the bolded and underlined... You think this makes them mafia, despite their contributions?

You should never shut up. I want to hear literally every thought you're thinking about any player.

[Ricochet]

Spoiler: show

OK, so I will also resort to individual reads, based on players' lists, to make up for the phases I missed. On the bright side, it will be a colorless list and I'll try to keep it tight (post-writing edit: but utterly fail!! ).

An active Bass is a peculiar Bass in itself for me. The civviest Bass I can think of is a great reader in few words. Well, his D1 was almost his most active Day I can remember from playing with him, but also with a lot of stuff that reads fine. On the plus side, his suspicion on Sloonei which, even though he didn't carry it all the way to a vote, cultivated in way his lynch. I think his issues with Sloonei being so inquisitive (about others' opinions on him) were prior to Llama himself switching from fishing Sloonei using the adverb-smiley gambit to openly reading him as bad due to being over-defensive. I'm doubtful Bass would be mafia and create actual pretexts for the civvies to use lynch his teammate. On the minus side, his siding with LoRab on the LD issue re: G-Man, although mildly so, since he was more wary of wording than of LD detectability meta as old as the internet. His Scotty jump vote spreaded the poll to maximum at that time, but it was fairly consistent with a full day of eyeing Scotty. He hasn't kept his D1 form since, in fact his D2 is almost without any substance and his vote for MM isn't like to any actual suspicion (apart from banter), but it sounds like the four-player poll wasn't much for him to go with. So not flawless supatown, but right now leaning civ.

I'm sympathetic towards Cookie and want to reiterate what others have already said that she's adapting fine to a completely unfamiliar (for instance, not getting much in the open thread out of role checks, tracks and such) setup, but hopefully she can truly get past the overwhelmed feelings and try to give her best, whether it's reads, gut feelings, anything. The most important thing I want to stress is that, yes, I think you should state anything you want to say and that you should not give up on catching up and posting thoughts on players simply because others have already brought it up. The one post making me doubt a little that she'd be involved in a team is this one, because I remember "newbies" often getting scanned to tell if they get BTSC help and stuff like that makes me feel (along with the countless adjusting questions) she's actually on her own. Her D2 vote isn't great, but there's insuficient data to tell if she simply coasted with the general "this four-player poll isn't too effective, I'll go with my strongest suspicion" mentality or not. Neutral, but not without some qualms.

Maybe I'm truly alone with this nagging thought, but DharmaHelper at his helpiest is still on my mind for crushing the civilians back in Omerta - and I didn't even last long enough to get burned by him, given how the civs themselves didn't like my omelette too much, so I shouldn't need to be the person to keep that meta into check. He even referenced that, in an exchange with MP ("You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread."), which could normally be perfect meta. To some relief, I'm not seeing quite that level of pack leading and "helpiest" - case in point, his D2 was kinda crap and his LC vote is shoddy even after hindsight reasoning. Otherwise, I'm not picking something unusual out of his D1 pings (contrary to DDL, I can sort of appreciate "alternative route" reads when I find them substantial enough) and, though he hasn't concluded, I don't have issues with his reads today so far. Erhh not on my suspects list right now.

If we are to respect Golden's legacy reads, then DDL should normally be on the table, because admist the general "Golden's the worst of the four bunch" apathetic reasonings, he crafted and entertained a lynch case. Strangely, though, I'm rather seeing signs of a hunt gone bad. There are some creaks, otherwise. His Day 1 game was affected by RL, but his Sloonei reasoning is indeed a bit "mirroring" some suspicions expressed before, even though he claims it was gut based - if it was, I'm not reading it quite as genuine as Bass' one, for instance. I'm also curious why he finds MM to be almost as unintelligible as Vompatti and would leave it at that for now. Don't think I can call him a pure-blood civ at all, but I'm not reading him mafia either. Fool me twice, of course, if once again the more focused and hunter he seems, the more he's actually he's hiding a killer face under that straw hat.

-- Side note at this point. I can't project in such detail as up to certain roles. DH, what makes you think DDL qualifies as Moloch? What would be his interests or MO as him?

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy. The way DH wrote her synopsis so far, I'm seeing a lot of jumpiness of suspicions already laid out: G-Man and Sloonei were already slight mafia reads to MP and Llama by the time she called them as well. Her initial to and for re: Sloonei mirroring MP was documented. She also liked MP's Scotty case, as soon as he switched to that. From the Sloonei voters still alive, I'm definitely still looking at her and espers more than DDL (even though, as I mentioned, his voting wasn't too genuine either). I also think DH's point is interesting, that her voting Ninja (without ever having mentioned her) or spreading to other choices, in light of Sloonei flipping bad, would have been a disastrous baddie move, if she is baddie. Only positive move I can read is not giving into voting Golden just because his vote reads the worse. But even on D2, I already posed her some questions on her reasoning. I don't know, but I simply can't move my trust-o-meter on her an inch out of the negative zone. If not an Inmate, maybe Moloch, disinterested in where the lynch actually lands on?

espers - timing of vote and switch from DDL suck, though I'm not entirely reading his rebuttal to DDL on the switch matter as unreasonable. Missed D2 completely and I haven't picked up anything consistent from him since, except for the plan to correlate relationships with Sloonei based on posts - which is undergoing and probably not heading to a completion on this Day. Not sure what to fully make of all this; slight mafia read.

-- DH, can you point out where you noticed espers' "assertion that he suspected Sloonei all along, but did not verbalize it in the thread"? It would make me suspect espers more as well, but I can't seem to find it. --

Long Con - Back on track after D1 and I can't say I have issues with his leads. His pick of the Eloh suspicion was a bit of a grab from what others posted (namely, me), but afterwards he developed it into an actual debate whether both Sloonei did hard distancing or planting for a mislynched. His D2 Golden vote was as sketchy as all the others that were in the "X is the short straw of the four" format. No beef with him, so far.

LoRab - Short and sweet, I ultimately don't like her LD debate build-up and push on G-Man, because I remember somebody pointing out (although I fail to remember who, right now) that the issues she had - with the lie detectability of statements such as those made by G-Man on previous websites or with G-Man way of wording and careful gameplay on the same previous website - were actually no issues at all, which makes me not understand why she would bring them up as issues. Also, her vote for Golden stinks the most, timing and reasoning alike: Golden's use of the "I'm a very important civ" defense is scummy? I've been through Biblical where this defense was used twice and I've succesfully refrained from lynching either players (who flipped civ in the end; they even flipped the role they hinted at, too). Plus, she went more for the thrills of watching a tiebreak unfold, rather than strongly believing in her lynch choice. I don't know her gaming ways, I can tell she likes to take on heat and act hardcore, but I can't say I trust her one bit so far. I'd consider voting her.

MetalMarsh89 - Here's my take on it. I know two baddie versions of MM, from experience. One that takes heat on, can be confrontational, can self-vote, can end up lynched (eventually) without leaving that many crumbs to his teammates [Film Directors] and one that can spam and fluff and be incessantly random, can self-vote, can attract lynches and/or kills, yet intentionally so due to high abilities [Death Note]. Both explanations can be valid in this game, if you think for a sec - I'm particularly intrigued by the idea (LC's was it) that he could be the Comedian, although it doesn't feel like he actually rused the baddies as much as basically everyone, so I'm not buying it. For some reason, I'm inclined to see his baddie game in this one.

Russtifinko - He was at 10 posts when I returned to Mafia this afternoon, out of which I got absolutely nada, and has evolved so far with 4 more meatier posts. My only meta from ever playing with him (in Donner, where he was and remained a pure-blood civ) was being active from D0 and taking heat on some controversial views, without getting lynched in the process. (I don't remember much besides that, because I was "evicted" early). Overall, if he intends to get on board from now on, I'll all for that. No beef with his content so far, neutral.

Timmer - LINKI: bye timmer

G-Man: |


MP: :̡͇͎̼͍̲̺̫̩͓̑̋̊͆͌̒̈́̿̏͗|̢̛̦̟̬͖͕̺̬͔͗̾͗̂̆́̊̔̚ͅ|̢̧̻̭̗͍̙̰͇̦̊̇̄̇̿̄̐͊̚͝


I'm sorry, I'd really want to offer eloquent reads on them as well, but it's 3am and I don't think I can wrap it up. I have to confess G-Man's out-of-sync with real-time phases catch-up were indeed slightly tortouos and I got nothing out of them except for his criticism of MP - I understand his need to go through them after losing initial content, nevertheless... I can't read much baddieness into him at the moment, but I can hardly elaborate on that either. Neutral. Some of the points made about MP are interesting, but it wouldn't be fair is for me to simply coast on them right now, because I'm unable to finish synthesize his posts due to the amount and the time I have left; suffice to say I had a vibe, back on D1 endgame, that his hesitation to decide on a right voting choice, up until Scotty's actions displeased him into switching to him, could be interpreted both ways. But I should really find a way to elaborate my own read based on this and anything else. I can try to re-read in the time that's left, unless I'll have to participate in more discussion (which I imagine I will), but not much hope.

Rico, this list is heavily appreciated. I am reading in detail now.

Quick: Which players are you considering for a vote today and why?

LoRab, espers, MM, maybe Eloh.

You need more why besides the list?

[Tangrowth]

Does anyone else feel that DDL's suspicion of DH is forced?

I do.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

You don't think DharmaHelper's behavior is consistent with what RL/posts he's provided? He did detail that he would be busy, then warned us he would have opinions on every player during Day 3. Yet you find him suspicious for delivering on his promise of contributing reads?

No. What I mean is that him posting ISOs hardly means anything about his alignment.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

OK, so I will also resort to individual reads, based on players' lists, to make up for the phases I missed. On the bright side, it will be a colorless list and I'll try to keep it tight (post-writing edit: but utterly fail!! ).

An active Bass is a peculiar Bass in itself for me. The civviest Bass I can think of is a great reader in few words. Well, his D1 was almost his most active Day I can remember from playing with him, but also with a lot of stuff that reads fine. On the plus side, his suspicion on Sloonei which, even though he didn't carry it all the way to a vote, cultivated in way his lynch. I think his issues with Sloonei being so inquisitive (about others' opinions on him) were prior to Llama himself switching from fishing Sloonei using the adverb-smiley gambit to openly reading him as bad due to being over-defensive. I'm doubtful Bass would be mafia and create actual pretexts for the civvies to use lynch his teammate. On the minus side, his siding with LoRab on the LD issue re: G-Man, although mildly so, since he was more wary of wording than of LD detectability meta as old as the internet. His Scotty jump vote spreaded the poll to maximum at that time, but it was fairly consistent with a full day of eyeing Scotty. He hasn't kept his D1 form since, in fact his D2 is almost without any substance and his vote for MM isn't like to any actual suspicion (apart from banter), but it sounds like the four-player poll wasn't much for him to go with. So not flawless supatown, but right now leaning civ.

I'm sympathetic towards Cookie and want to reiterate what others have already said that she's adapting fine to a completely unfamiliar (for instance, not getting much in the open thread out of role checks, tracks and such) setup, but hopefully she can truly get past the overwhelmed feelings and try to give her best, whether it's reads, gut feelings, anything. The most important thing I want to stress is that, yes, I think you should state anything you want to say and that you should not give up on catching up and posting thoughts on players simply because others have already brought it up. The one post making me doubt a little that she'd be involved in a team is this one, because I remember "newbies" often getting scanned to tell if they get BTSC help and stuff like that makes me feel (along with the countless adjusting questions) she's actually on her own. Her D2 vote isn't great, but there's insuficient data to tell if she simply coasted with the general "this four-player poll isn't too effective, I'll go with my strongest suspicion" mentality or not. Neutral, but not without some qualms.

Maybe I'm truly alone with this nagging thought, but DharmaHelper at his helpiest is still on my mind for crushing the civilians back in Omerta - and I didn't even last long enough to get burned by him, given how the civs themselves didn't like my omelette too much, so I shouldn't need to be the person to keep that meta into check. He even referenced that, in an exchange with MP ("You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread."), which could normally be perfect meta. To some relief, I'm not seeing quite that level of pack leading and "helpiest" - case in point, his D2 was kinda crap and his LC vote is shoddy even after hindsight reasoning. Otherwise, I'm not picking something unusual out of his D1 pings (contrary to DDL, I can sort of appreciate "alternative route" reads when I find them substantial enough) and, though he hasn't concluded, I don't have issues with his reads today so far. Erhh not on my suspects list right now.

If we are to respect Golden's legacy reads, then DDL should normally be on the table, because admist the general "Golden's the worst of the four bunch" apathetic reasonings, he crafted and entertained a lynch case. Strangely, though, I'm rather seeing signs of a hunt gone bad. There are some creaks, otherwise. His Day 1 game was affected by RL, but his Sloonei reasoning is indeed a bit "mirroring" some suspicions expressed before, even though he claims it was gut based - if it was, I'm not reading it quite as genuine as Bass' one, for instance. I'm also curious why he finds MM to be almost as unintelligible as Vompatti and would leave it at that for now. Don't think I can call him a pure-blood civ at all, but I'm not reading him mafia either. Fool me twice, of course, if once again the more focused and hunter he seems, the more he's actually he's hiding a killer face under that straw hat.

-- Side note at this point. I can't project in such detail as up to certain roles. DH, what makes you think DDL qualifies as Moloch? What would be his interests or MO as him?

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy. The way DH wrote her synopsis so far, I'm seeing a lot of jumpiness of suspicions already laid out: G-Man and Sloonei were already slight mafia reads to MP and Llama by the time she called them as well. Her initial to and for re: Sloonei mirroring MP was documented. She also liked MP's Scotty case, as soon as he switched to that. From the Sloonei voters still alive, I'm definitely still looking at her and espers more than DDL (even though, as I mentioned, his voting wasn't too genuine either). I also think DH's point is interesting, that her voting Ninja (without ever having mentioned her) or spreading to other choices, in light of Sloonei flipping bad, would have been a disastrous baddie move, if she is baddie. Only positive move I can read is not giving into voting Golden just because his vote reads the worse. But even on D2, I already posed her some questions on her reasoning. I don't know, but I simply can't move my trust-o-meter on her an inch out of the negative zone. If not an Inmate, maybe Moloch, disinterested in where the lynch actually lands on?

espers - timing of vote and switch from DDL suck, though I'm not entirely reading his rebuttal to DDL on the switch matter as unreasonable. Missed D2 completely and I haven't picked up anything consistent from him since, except for the plan to correlate relationships with Sloonei based on posts - which is undergoing and probably not heading to a completion on this Day. Not sure what to fully make of all this; slight mafia read.

-- DH, can you point out where you noticed espers' "assertion that he suspected Sloonei all along, but did not verbalize it in the thread"? It would make me suspect espers more as well, but I can't seem to find it. --

Long Con - Back on track after D1 and I can't say I have issues with his leads. His pick of the Eloh suspicion was a bit of a grab from what others posted (namely, me), but afterwards he developed it into an actual debate whether both Sloonei did hard distancing or planting for a mislynched. His D2 Golden vote was as sketchy as all the others that were in the "X is the short straw of the four" format. No beef with him, so far.

LoRab - Short and sweet, I ultimately don't like her LD debate build-up and push on G-Man, because I remember somebody pointing out (although I fail to remember who, right now) that the issues she had - with the lie detectability of statements such as those made by G-Man on previous websites or with G-Man way of wording and careful gameplay on the same previous website - were actually no issues at all, which makes me not understand why she would bring them up as issues. Also, her vote for Golden stinks the most, timing and reasoning alike: Golden's use of the "I'm a very important civ" defense is scummy? I've been through Biblical where this defense was used twice and I've succesfully refrained from lynching either players (who flipped civ in the end; they even flipped the role they hinted at, too). Plus, she went more for the thrills of watching a tiebreak unfold, rather than strongly believing in her lynch choice. I don't know her gaming ways, I can tell she likes to take on heat and act hardcore, but I can't say I trust her one bit so far. I'd consider voting her.

MetalMarsh89 - Here's my take on it. I know two baddie versions of MM, from experience. One that takes heat on, can be confrontational, can self-vote, can end up lynched (eventually) without leaving that many crumbs to his teammates [Film Directors] and one that can spam and fluff and be incessantly random, can self-vote, can attract lynches and/or kills, yet intentionally so due to high abilities [Death Note]. Both explanations can be valid in this game, if you think for a sec - I'm particularly intrigued by the idea (LC's was it) that he could be the Comedian, although it doesn't feel like he actually rused the baddies as much as basically everyone, so I'm not buying it. For some reason, I'm inclined to see his baddie game in this one.

Russtifinko - He was at 10 posts when I returned to Mafia this afternoon, out of which I got absolutely nada, and has evolved so far with 4 more meatier posts. My only meta from ever playing with him (in Donner, where he was and remained a pure-blood civ) was being active from D0 and taking heat on some controversial views, without getting lynched in the process. (I don't remember much besides that, because I was "evicted" early). Overall, if he intends to get on board from now on, I'll all for that. No beef with his content so far, neutral.

Timmer - LINKI: bye timmer

G-Man: |


MP: :̡͇͎̼͍̲̺̫̩͓̑̋̊͆͌̒̈́̿̏͗|̢̛̦̟̬͖͕̺̬͔͗̾͗̂̆́̊̔̚ͅ|̢̧̻̭̗͍̙̰͇̦̊̇̄̇̿̄̐͊̚͝


I'm sorry, I'd really want to offer eloquent reads on them as well, but it's 3am and I don't think I can wrap it up. I have to confess G-Man's out-of-sync with real-time phases catch-up were indeed slightly tortouos and I got nothing out of them except for his criticism of MP - I understand his need to go through them after losing initial content, nevertheless... I can't read much baddieness into him at the moment, but I can hardly elaborate on that either. Neutral. Some of the points made about MP are interesting, but it wouldn't be fair is for me to simply coast on them right now, because I'm unable to finish synthesize his posts due to the amount and the time I have left; suffice to say I had a vibe, back on D1 endgame, that his hesitation to decide on a right voting choice, up until Scotty's actions displeased him into switching to him, could be interpreted both ways. But I should really find a way to elaborate my own read based on this and anything else. I can try to re-read in the time that's left, unless I'll have to participate in more discussion (which I imagine I will), but not much hope.

Rico, this list is heavily appreciated. I am reading in detail now.

Quick: Which players are you considering for a vote today and why?

LoRab, espers, MM, maybe Eloh.

You need more why besides the list?

No, I don't, unless you feel there's something you need to elaborate further.

Thanks.

If you had to vote right now, which one would it be?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Godanmit people, why you choose to post 10 walls of text/minute now instead of during the rest of the day. It's getting hard to stay up to date.

[DharmaHelper]

Does anyone else feel that DDL's suspicion of DH is forced?

I do.

I must have struck a cord when I called him Morloch lol

[Tangrowth]

You don't think DharmaHelper's behavior is consistent with what RL/posts he's provided? He did detail that he would be busy, then warned us he would have opinions on every player during Day 3. Yet you find him suspicious for delivering on his promise of contributing reads?

No. What I mean is that him posting ISOs hardly means anything about his alignment.

You don't think his baddie hunting is genuine?

[DharmaHelper]

I'm voting for espers. Of the people I re-read today he is the most suspicious to me.

I think this because of his vote history and his assertion that he found Sloonei suspicious, when his posts show the opposite.

[Tangrowth]

Part of me is frankly almost considering a vote for Cookie right now, since I keep seeing her lurk, and it's almost the end of Day 3, yet we haven't heard a single suspect from her. Her Day 2 vote for Golden really stinks.

I likely won't vote for her, but I really hope to hear from her.

[Ricochet]

Spoiler: show

OK, so I will also resort to individual reads, based on players' lists, to make up for the phases I missed. On the bright side, it will be a colorless list and I'll try to keep it tight (post-writing edit: but utterly fail!! ).

An active Bass is a peculiar Bass in itself for me. The civviest Bass I can think of is a great reader in few words. Well, his D1 was almost his most active Day I can remember from playing with him, but also with a lot of stuff that reads fine. On the plus side, his suspicion on Sloonei which, even though he didn't carry it all the way to a vote, cultivated in way his lynch. I think his issues with Sloonei being so inquisitive (about others' opinions on him) were prior to Llama himself switching from fishing Sloonei using the adverb-smiley gambit to openly reading him as bad due to being over-defensive. I'm doubtful Bass would be mafia and create actual pretexts for the civvies to use lynch his teammate. On the minus side, his siding with LoRab on the LD issue re: G-Man, although mildly so, since he was more wary of wording than of LD detectability meta as old as the internet. His Scotty jump vote spreaded the poll to maximum at that time, but it was fairly consistent with a full day of eyeing Scotty. He hasn't kept his D1 form since, in fact his D2 is almost without any substance and his vote for MM isn't like to any actual suspicion (apart from banter), but it sounds like the four-player poll wasn't much for him to go with. So not flawless supatown, but right now leaning civ.

I'm sympathetic towards Cookie and want to reiterate what others have already said that she's adapting fine to a completely unfamiliar (for instance, not getting much in the open thread out of role checks, tracks and such) setup, but hopefully she can truly get past the overwhelmed feelings and try to give her best, whether it's reads, gut feelings, anything. The most important thing I want to stress is that, yes, I think you should state anything you want to say and that you should not give up on catching up and posting thoughts on players simply because others have already brought it up. The one post making me doubt a little that she'd be involved in a team is this one, because I remember "newbies" often getting scanned to tell if they get BTSC help and stuff like that makes me feel (along with the countless adjusting questions) she's actually on her own. Her D2 vote isn't great, but there's insuficient data to tell if she simply coasted with the general "this four-player poll isn't too effective, I'll go with my strongest suspicion" mentality or not. Neutral, but not without some qualms.

Maybe I'm truly alone with this nagging thought, but DharmaHelper at his helpiest is still on my mind for crushing the civilians back in Omerta - and I didn't even last long enough to get burned by him, given how the civs themselves didn't like my omelette too much, so I shouldn't need to be the person to keep that meta into check. He even referenced that, in an exchange with MP ("You are reminding me of me, when I'm bad and I want to take the leadership role in the thread."), which could normally be perfect meta. To some relief, I'm not seeing quite that level of pack leading and "helpiest" - case in point, his D2 was kinda crap and his LC vote is shoddy even after hindsight reasoning. Otherwise, I'm not picking something unusual out of his D1 pings (contrary to DDL, I can sort of appreciate "alternative route" reads when I find them substantial enough) and, though he hasn't concluded, I don't have issues with his reads today so far. Erhh not on my suspects list right now.

If we are to respect Golden's legacy reads, then DDL should normally be on the table, because admist the general "Golden's the worst of the four bunch" apathetic reasonings, he crafted and entertained a lynch case. Strangely, though, I'm rather seeing signs of a hunt gone bad. There are some creaks, otherwise. His Day 1 game was affected by RL, but his Sloonei reasoning is indeed a bit "mirroring" some suspicions expressed before, even though he claims it was gut based - if it was, I'm not reading it quite as genuine as Bass' one, for instance. I'm also curious why he finds MM to be almost as unintelligible as Vompatti and would leave it at that for now. Don't think I can call him a pure-blood civ at all, but I'm not reading him mafia either. Fool me twice, of course, if once again the more focused and hunter he seems, the more he's actually he's hiding a killer face under that straw hat.

-- Side note at this point. I can't project in such detail as up to certain roles. DH, what makes you think DDL qualifies as Moloch? What would be his interests or MO as him?

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy. The way DH wrote her synopsis so far, I'm seeing a lot of jumpiness of suspicions already laid out: G-Man and Sloonei were already slight mafia reads to MP and Llama by the time she called them as well. Her initial to and for re: Sloonei mirroring MP was documented. She also liked MP's Scotty case, as soon as he switched to that. From the Sloonei voters still alive, I'm definitely still looking at her and espers more than DDL (even though, as I mentioned, his voting wasn't too genuine either). I also think DH's point is interesting, that her voting Ninja (without ever having mentioned her) or spreading to other choices, in light of Sloonei flipping bad, would have been a disastrous baddie move, if she is baddie. Only positive move I can read is not giving into voting Golden just because his vote reads the worse. But even on D2, I already posed her some questions on her reasoning. I don't know, but I simply can't move my trust-o-meter on her an inch out of the negative zone. If not an Inmate, maybe Moloch, disinterested in where the lynch actually lands on?

espers - timing of vote and switch from DDL suck, though I'm not entirely reading his rebuttal to DDL on the switch matter as unreasonable. Missed D2 completely and I haven't picked up anything consistent from him since, except for the plan to correlate relationships with Sloonei based on posts - which is undergoing and probably not heading to a completion on this Day. Not sure what to fully make of all this; slight mafia read.

-- DH, can you point out where you noticed espers' "assertion that he suspected Sloonei all along, but did not verbalize it in the thread"? It would make me suspect espers more as well, but I can't seem to find it. --

Long Con - Back on track after D1 and I can't say I have issues with his leads. His pick of the Eloh suspicion was a bit of a grab from what others posted (namely, me), but afterwards he developed it into an actual debate whether both Sloonei did hard distancing or planting for a mislynched. His D2 Golden vote was as sketchy as all the others that were in the "X is the short straw of the four" format. No beef with him, so far.

LoRab - Short and sweet, I ultimately don't like her LD debate build-up and push on G-Man, because I remember somebody pointing out (although I fail to remember who, right now) that the issues she had - with the lie detectability of statements such as those made by G-Man on previous websites or with G-Man way of wording and careful gameplay on the same previous website - were actually no issues at all, which makes me not understand why she would bring them up as issues. Also, her vote for Golden stinks the most, timing and reasoning alike: Golden's use of the "I'm a very important civ" defense is scummy? I've been through Biblical where this defense was used twice and I've succesfully refrained from lynching either players (who flipped civ in the end; they even flipped the role they hinted at, too). Plus, she went more for the thrills of watching a tiebreak unfold, rather than strongly believing in her lynch choice. I don't know her gaming ways, I can tell she likes to take on heat and act hardcore, but I can't say I trust her one bit so far. I'd consider voting her.

MetalMarsh89 - Here's my take on it. I know two baddie versions of MM, from experience. One that takes heat on, can be confrontational, can self-vote, can end up lynched (eventually) without leaving that many crumbs to his teammates [Film Directors] and one that can spam and fluff and be incessantly random, can self-vote, can attract lynches and/or kills, yet intentionally so due to high abilities [Death Note]. Both explanations can be valid in this game, if you think for a sec - I'm particularly intrigued by the idea (LC's was it) that he could be the Comedian, although it doesn't feel like he actually rused the baddies as much as basically everyone, so I'm not buying it. For some reason, I'm inclined to see his baddie game in this one.

Russtifinko - He was at 10 posts when I returned to Mafia this afternoon, out of which I got absolutely nada, and has evolved so far with 4 more meatier posts. My only meta from ever playing with him (in Donner, where he was and remained a pure-blood civ) was being active from D0 and taking heat on some controversial views, without getting lynched in the process. (I don't remember much besides that, because I was "evicted" early). Overall, if he intends to get on board from now on, I'll all for that. No beef with his content so far, neutral.

Timmer - LINKI: bye timmer

G-Man: |


MP: :̡͇͎̼͍̲̺̫̩͓̑̋̊͆͌̒̈́̿̏͗|̢̛̦̟̬͖͕̺̬͔͗̾͗̂̆́̊̔̚ͅ|̢̧̻̭̗͍̙̰͇̦̊̇̄̇̿̄̐͊̚͝


I'm sorry, I'd really want to offer eloquent reads on them as well, but it's 3am and I don't think I can wrap it up. I have to confess G-Man's out-of-sync with real-time phases catch-up were indeed slightly tortouos and I got nothing out of them except for his criticism of MP - I understand his need to go through them after losing initial content, nevertheless... I can't read much baddieness into him at the moment, but I can hardly elaborate on that either. Neutral. Some of the points made about MP are interesting, but it wouldn't be fair is for me to simply coast on them right now, because I'm unable to finish synthesize his posts due to the amount and the time I have left; suffice to say I had a vibe, back on D1 endgame, that his hesitation to decide on a right voting choice, up until Scotty's actions displeased him into switching to him, could be interpreted both ways. But I should really find a way to elaborate my own read based on this and anything else. I can try to re-read in the time that's left, unless I'll have to participate in more discussion (which I imagine I will), but not much hope.

Rico, this list is heavily appreciated. I am reading in detail now.

Quick: Which players are you considering for a vote today and why?

LoRab, espers, MM, maybe Eloh.

You need more why besides the list?

No, I don't, unless you feel there's something you need to elaborate further.

Thanks.

If you had to vote right now, which one would it be?

LoRab or espers. The latter for her Sloonei vote and reasoning looking bad, the former for specifically what I said, especially her Golden vote and push into a tie.

[Tangrowth]

Here are all of the players that I'm currently considering for my vote, from least to most likely:

G-Man
Metalmarsh89

LoRab

Cookie
Dragon D. Luffy

espers

[Tangrowth]

Honestly, I had timmer in the yellow range, but since he has been replaced, I will wait until we hear from juliets. And Cookie fell down from yellow, only because I'm tired of not hearing from her.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I forgot to add quotes to my last reply to DH. Sorry.

It's this one btw http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p159496

[Elohcin]

I'm not deaf to Elohcin saying that being jokey relaxes her and stating time and again her reasoning for focusing on, off and then decisively on Sloonei, but I strongely feel her gameplay so far is very messy.

My gameplay is always messy. I am a horrible mafia player. Everyone knows this. But it is a heck of a lot of fun, so I play.

My uneasiness of G-Man and LC stem from earlier on in the game and the fact that they really haven;t been present lately. I will go back and look at DH and tell you some specifics. I'm telling you though, I might as well just shut up, b/c I feel like I cannot make a post without some kind of flaw. I am misunderstanding y'all left and right, sorry.

Woah linki

Re: the bolded and underlined... You think this makes them mafia, despite their contributions?

You should never shut up. I want to hear literally every thought you're thinking about any player.

I don't think that alone makes them mafia. I think it is one reason to look at them.

No. What I mean is that him posting ISOs hardly means anything about his alignment.

You don't think his baddie hunting is genuine?

This sums up my feelings about DH. I couldn't think of a good way to say it, but "not genuine" works well. His baddie hunting seems a bit disconnected. Does that make sense? I am so tired.

But then MP, you make some good points about cookie. I just don't know. Is she really just so new and confused? Or is she being coached and this is all an act? I hate that I am so easily persuaded. It makes being a civ VERY difficult.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I want to hear literally every thought you're thinking about any player.

Ok this didn't sound creepy at all.

[DharmaHelper]

Makes no sense Eloh.

[Elohcin]

I want to hear literally every thought you're thinking about any player.

Ok this didn't sound creepy at all.

My mind goes straight to sexual things. I'm so bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Does anyone else feel that DDL's suspicion of DH is forced?

I do.

Elaborate, please.

Also, I'm gonna answer to your response to my wall of text after the day phase is over, since we have little time and I'm not voting you now anyway.

[Elohcin]

Makes no sense Eloh.

That's what she said. Or should I say, "he said" since I am a girl? I dunno.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

votes DH

Already explained etc

[Tangrowth]

Elo, what are other reasons we should look at G-Man and LC?

Can you describe what you mean by disconnected? Even better, would you be able to point to an example, and explain why you think it makes him mafia? I'm all ears, especially since DH is one crafty player. I personally didn't see anything nefarious in his posts today, but different perspectives = good.

I don't think Cookie is faking anything, for the record. She definitely is lost. I think she might be avoiding the thread because she is a mafia member, panicking, who ISN'T being coached. Regardless of how scared she is, she's had multiple instances of assurance of "yes, it's okay, post anything you're thinking", yet we're still waiting to hear from her. It's almost the end of Day 3. I'm just trying to apply some pressure her way, not necessarily lead a bandwagon against her. I want to get her talking.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I want to hear what everyone else is thinking, especially if it pertains to any of those players I listed in the mafia section of my rainbow right above. I'll be back in 10-15 minutes again. That should give you all time to breathe and continue cursing me for posting so much around EoD.

Linki w/ DDL and Elo: Oh, you guys.

Linki AGAIN w/ DDL: I will do the same. I'm very likely not going to vote for you today, since I didn't have time to conduct proper analysis, and my accusation that you want me to elaborate upon is solely my gut interpretation of your DH suspicion. I'll elaborate, but it may not be until after EoD. If so, I definitely won't vote for you, since you at least deserve an elaboration first.

[Cookie]

Part of me is frankly almost considering a vote for Cookie right now, since I keep seeing her lurk, and it's almost the end of Day 3, yet we haven't heard a single suspect from her. Her Day 2 vote for Golden really stinks.

I likely won't vote for her, but I really hope to hear from her.

I am working on my list of suspect's right now! I've only just discovered that I can view peoples' vote history by clicking "In Topic" and that let's me review things in isolation instead of reading up on the past 5 pages.

[Cookie]

I don't mean vote history, I meant post history*

[Cookie]

Wait does day end in 10 minutes or 1 hour 10 minutes?

[juliets]

Hello everyone! I have been skimming this game but not studying the game and I have no idea right now who I think is bad so I won't be voting in this vote thats in an hour or so. Like Spacedaisy I'm not going to try and go back and read everything though I am going to read these few superlong posts that just got posted.

The reason I didn't sign up for this game or Frisky Dingo is I am traveling a great deal in the next month starting next Saturday. I have internet once I get to where I'm going but while traveling in the car all day I have nothing. I will warn you when one of those travel days is coming and we'll just see how it works out.

Ok I'll be reading tonight whats current and also picking up some past ISO's.

linki
linki

[Ricochet]

So after a post in which I call Eloh on suspects jumpiness, she literally jumps on DH based on DDL's read on him and switches from inquiring MP on his Cookie suss to thinking it could make sense.

with an Y.