Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[DharmaHelper]

I just want to reiterate for no one's benefit: Golden and Epi are not the only ones on the poll despite what they might tell you. Also, they're not the only ones in the thread.

[reywaS]

This smiley looks dirty to me.

[DharmaHelper]

This smiley looks dirty to me.

:halforchandjob:

[bea]

Check out MP's adverb usage before and after my interaction with him, and then check out his adverb usage during my calling him out about being bad for using adverbs. Drastic jump. Got em.

Might be something to it. I don't like to use the whole adverb "thing" (since we can't agree on the difference between "theory" and "concept") as my basis for a case on someone. But it could very well influence it.

This feels like you want to agree but you want wiggle room out of it. I'm curious as to why this is the day 0 thing you chose to comment on.

I also want to highlight this post because I feel it has some merit.

What do players think of BWT's post? bea's post?

I was really hoping that all the adverb talk was not serious suspicion talk :/ It seemed like silly banter to me so I really just skimmed over it as I would OT. Should I be rereading it?

To everyone:
Sorry for being on the low poster list. I mentioned in the sign up thread that I would be out of town at a funeral through Saturday so please keep that in mind. I was in the middle of bumfuck nowhere Michigan with no service yesterday. I'm not intentionally avoiding the thread!

I'm only caught up to about page 14ish at this point, just taking things in but I don't really have any suspicions yet.

I am so sorry for your loss. I missed that in your first post, and I feel bad for that. Please take care of what you need to take care of. If there is anything I can do, don't hesitate to PM me.

As to the adverb thing - Epi has a running theory/concept that baddies tend to use adverbs more than civs. Being an ex-English teacher, I find it interesting. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Like most of Epi's "theories/concepts."

I think LA and llama and Cannuck and the rest of our word nerds will agree with me when I say, skilled language users can write themselves out of adverbs, but it's kinda a thing here even if half the time it's a joke. I'm not going to buy the adverb argument on day 0 or day 1 - but show me day 6 and 7 with some posts before and after, and I might think about it. Ya know?

linki - oh god - epi and golden are calling for votes? crap I'm so far behind. You two - go hid in your corners till I catch up!!

[Scotty]

I just want to reiterate for no one's benefit: Golden and Epi are not the only ones on the poll despite what they might tell you. Also, they're not the only ones in the thread.

All I see is Epignosis and Golden. Help!

[DharmaHelper]

I just want to reiterate for no one's benefit: Golden and Epi are not the only ones on the poll despite what they might tell you. Also, they're not the only ones in the thread.

All I see is Epignosis and Golden. Help!

Its been a long day, but I could whip something up tomorrow.

[Golden]

After I'm gone, lynch epi please. Thanks.

[DharmaHelper]

After I'm gone, lynch epi please. Thanks.

Oddly defeatist.

[bea]

@Bullz - am i wrong in assuming you can only be recruited by one?

I hate those musketeers.

Those musketeers. Their last-minute swashbuckling antics ruined me.

I see that Golden cited me as an example of someone who often avoids getting lynched, which is very much not the case. Nearly every game I play ends with me getting lynched for being blendy.

And every game you survive deep into is because 1000 veterans, myself included, say "DF always reads blendy - that's not indicative of alignment." You remember the losses, he remembers the times it worked for you. Both are true.

me too. Jerks.

This is not an anti-town post, I will not vote bea this phase and I will fight anyone who suggests otherwise. That might seem a curious read to some; call it intuition.

awe and I already decided I liked you before I read this.

That said DF and I were totes OT commiserating about the end of our baddie team due to those damn musketeers. They killed the civ team too.

likie - wtf? I need to read faster....

[Golden]

After I'm gone, lynch epi please. Thanks.

Oddly defeatist.

Epi says its mafia 101 for me to create a false dilemma.

So, what happens if you lynch me today and then I'm not coming back bad. What does that mean? Am I civilian who created a false dilemma? Or...

Epi wanted to 'end this', but when I wanted to end it, he suddenly pushed away from it again. "Everyone vote your conscience" he said. After he had just said he wanted to end it.

He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

I'm considering doing a King Arthur and just asking everyone to lynch me... I mean, it might make for a better game. And honestly, Epi didn't learn from Death and Taxes. I am hoping to encourage behaviour change from epi through early death.

[Scotty]

I'm kind of late to the party, and I apologize.
Day 1 is going to be a giant clusterfuck of opinions, especially with big personalities like these. I'm still amazed that players can pinpoint something scummy based on meta alone. I can totally see Epi and Golden being a benign matchup.

I can also see MP working the Recruiters office at the local Army surplus store.

As for DrWilgy's first vote for unfurl- I see no reason to suspect him for such. On his home mafia site, all votes tend to be changeable (I'm pretty certain), which allows for a more dynamic day and discussion IMO. So I don't fault him for doing so here, thinking it could be changeable, or even just to get the ball rolling.

As usual, I would normally be looking at MIAs for my Day 1 vote, but seeing as some people have already been recruited, I have to look at the entire field of possible recruits. I'm still not really versed in the recruiting thing works, but I think I get the general concept. If I were a dog, a recruiting cat could kidnap me, feed me Meow Mix, pet me softly and I would become a cat. Even though deep down, I know I am still dog, I'm systemically appropriated as a cat.

Is that right?

[Turnip Head]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

[Golden]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

[Marmot]

I will not vote for Scotty today.

Linki: Contrary to what I once said in a thread far, far away, I will not vote for Turnip Head today.

[Turnip Head]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

[Scotty]

I will not vote for Scotty today.

Linki: Contrary to what I once said in a thread far, far away, I will not vote for Turnip Head today.

Hahahahahahahahahaaha

It's actually kinda funny. 4/7 of my mafia experiences have been dead by Day 2. I would very much appreciate making it to .500

[Scotty]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

I feel like Epi just knows things, dude.

Like, he just sits around and knows all the live-long day.

Ya feel me?

[Marmot]

I will not vote for Scotty today.

Linki: Contrary to what I once said in a thread far, far away, I will not vote for Turnip Head today.

Hahahahahahahahahaaha

It's actually kinda funny. 4/7 of my mafia experiences have been dead by Day 2. I would very much appreciate making it to .500

Let's get you to Night 1 for starters.

[Turnip Head]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

I feel like Epi just knows things, dude.

Like, he just sits around and knows all the live-long day.

Ya feel me?

What gives you that impression?

[bea]

I'm less interested in the same old Day 1 debates surrounding the same old super talkative and aggressive players such as Epi, Golden, and Llama.

Right now, I'm much more interested in these folks:

DFaraday 3
DisgruntledPorcupine 3
Typhoony 3
Bass_the_Clever 2
Spacedaisy 2
Devin the Omniscient 1
DrWilgy 1
Sorsha 1

Hiding to avoid attention?

Llama, won't you join me in a crusade to interrogate low posters to at least get them talking? Possibly lynched?

Hmmmmm....not a bad idea actually.

Makes me want to look at voting for a low poster, as well as getting some to talk more.

Anyone in particular catch your eye? Is there someone you expect to talk more who hasn't? DP and DF are always "low posters" Bass is honestly a runner up here - SD has tech issues if I remember correctly, Sorsha's out town at a funeral. Devin is hella busy like us all, but maybe also is able to spend time with his wife (unlike myself. I miss my hubby)

I don't know dr wiggly

And typh is typh he will not comment off topic and he won't talk about things he finds redudent. Which given his Dutchie mentality is most everything.

Who exactly in the low posters do you want us to look at? And why?

You and MP both can feel free to answer that.

[Marmot]

I will not vote for bea today.

[Golden]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

I am not currently having fun.

[Scotty]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

I feel like Epi just knows things, dude.

Like, he just sits around and knows all the live-long day.

Ya feel me?

What gives you that impression?

Well, for one: Epignosis literally translates to "Toward Knowledge" in Ancient Greek.

For two, I mean, look at that face. How can you doubt that face?

[nutella]

Alright this is getting ridiculous. I don't see much reason to think either Epi or Golden is bad and yet they are insisting we take the bait and take a side in this duel of theirs. I'm not biting. I see some merit on both of their parts and some folly on both as well. Instinctively I trust Golden slightly more, but at this point I think this is friendly fire that's distracting Day 1 discussion from the other 34 players.

Question:

Is Day 1 about ridiculing others' reasons for finding suspicion?

OR

Is Day about articulating your own suspicions and following through?

Day 1 is about scratching your butt, eating potato chips, and finding some time in between to vote for someone for a bullshit reason.

This. seriously.

I'm probably voting for BWT today. He's not playing like I think he would if he were still neutral. Feels like something is already on the line for him.

Now this is a compelling observation, and a vote I could maybe get behind.


DH, maybe I misinterpreted but if, as I thought you implied, you just got your wisdom teeth out, you really should not be eating granola bars.

[Scotty]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

I am not currently having fun.

You know what's fun? Playing lawn darts midday with a bright sun overhead.

Golden, I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up, with all this Arthur/Knights of the Round table stuff. You have 1 vote on you.

[Marmot]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

I am not currently having fun.

Here is my current list of potential players I will vote for:

• aapje
  Bass_the_Clever
  Boomslang
  Bullzeye
  Devin the Omniscient
  DFaraday
  DisgruntledPorcupine
  DrWilgy
  G-Man
  JaggedJimmyJay
  Russtifinko
  Sorsha
  Spacedaisy
  thellama73
  timmer
  TinnBubbles
  Tranq
  Typhoony

Who should I eliminate from this list, Golden? I need your help.

I like nutella. She also lives in Oregon and she agrees with what I said. I will not vote for nutella today.

[Heiots]

TinnBubbles.

[Golden]

@MM - I think JJ deserves the opportunity to contribute. He always tries.

[nutella]

Yay, I am marmot-approved! I much prefer to though. Luckily Oregon's got plenty of both. (I recently turned 21 and went around to some winery tasting rooms, it was lovely!

[bea]

Check out MP's adverb usage before and after my interaction with him, and then check out his adverb usage during my calling him out about being bad for using adverbs. Drastic jump. Got em.

Might be something to it. I don't like to use the whole adverb "thing" (since we can't agree on the difference between "theory" and "concept") as my basis for a case on someone. But it could very well influence it.

This feels like you want to agree but you want wiggle room out of it. I'm curious as to why this is the day 0 thing you chose to comment on.

I also want to highlight this post because I feel it has some merit.

What do players think of BWT's post? bea's post?

Bea's post is astute. Leaving wiggle room is a baddie hallmark.

I wouldn't disagree.

However, a couple of follow-up questions:
1) Do you feel BWT's post is typical behavior for him regardless of alignment?
2) Do you think that a recruiter would have incentive to make the post that BWT made?

I also want to note that it seems that BWT didn't notice that DH was being tongue in cheek.

At the time, I didn't realize that about DH. Mostly because I was half-awake the entire time I was trying to catch up yesterday.

I would also like to add here, IDK if teefies is bad or not yet. I DO know that there is something inside of me that always thinks he could be bad and wants to question him like an inquisitor from the beginning of the game. I know this is MY gig based on my play and hosting of and with him. But like SVS, he is someone I try to develop a read on as soon as I can. And I will question him and ask him hard questions till I feel I can be ok with him. It's just a thing I have. I'm tough cuz I love you David

GOOD FOR YOU LA!!! do tell me in the appropriate places about the places you visited! PHX is more of a microbrew beer town, I miss being a wine nerd [/ot}

[Marmot]

Good point. I will not vote for JaggedJimmyJay today.

Also, I will not vote for TinyBubbles today. Sorry for spelling your name wrong!

Linki: Excellent! And I'm glad you enjoyed your birthday nutella. I prefer beer, but wine is great too. They both have their place, and there is certainly plenty of it around here.

[Black Rock]

Yay, I am marmot-approved! I much prefer to though. Luckily Oregon's got plenty of both. (I recently turned 21 and went around to some winery tasting rooms, it was lovely!

Serenity
OMG, when did you get so old? Damn, just damn I'm old.

[Golden]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

I am not currently having fun.

You know what's fun? Playing lawn darts midday with a bright sun overhead.

Golden, I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up, with all this Arthur/Knights of the Round table stuff. You have 1 vote on you.

It's not about the votes, it's about what's best for the game. I'm not going to panic because someone suspects me, but I don't like to let feuds dominate a thread. I don't think they are helpful.

In King Arthur I felt it was the best course of action for the town to lynch me, so I got them to.

You were in BoB. You will understand the use of ending the LC/golden feud.

[Canucklehead]

Ya know, all these years I've thought the damn word was "pendantic". Huh.


I don't know what kind of weed y'all are smoking, but apricots aren't fuzzy.

Where's Bob Saget and Dave Coulier when you need them?

I literally ask myself this question at least once a day.

In summary, I agree with everything Nutella said in her previous post, and just fille this post with bullshit so as to look like I think for myself.

Spoiler: show

i don't actually think for myself

[Black Rock]

Official Announcement

The roles post has been updated and is complete. Thank you to our winners that made this all possible.

[Canucklehead]

Also, while I have no idea if Golden is bad or not at this point (though I lean towards "not"), I'm perfectly happy to vote out anyone at this request if they insist it would be "better for the game"

[DharmaHelper]

[Dom]

I think it's lame when people come in and criticize other people's reasoning (especially those they don't understand).

Come in Day 1 with your own thoughts and ideas- not knocking down those already made.

As someone who works in theater sometimes, I hate it when a director, designer, or other person gives a note on a performance but makes it a general note when it clearly is not for everyone. "Some of us need to make sure we project more. Remember the people in the back!" they might say. "Can we make sure we find our light? It's hard to focus the lights properly if you're not trying," is something else they might quip. It's irritating because they obviously mean a few people who need to do a better job. If the entire cast/crew had the problem, it would warrant a response larger than a note at the end of a run. Instead of addressing the actors and crew members, the production staff member will simply make a general note-- which the vast majority of the people receiving notes will ignore-- it's not for them.

Now, I'm not implying you are the director, Epig (I would never give you such an ego boost), but the principle is similar. To make a long story short: Who the hell are you talking about?

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

Let's say he's bad and is on Bad Team 1. How does he know you are not on Bad Team 2?

Alright this is getting ridiculous. I don't see much reason to think either Epi or Golden is bad and yet they are insisting we take the bait and take a side in this duel of theirs. I'm not biting. I see some merit on both of their parts and some folly on both as well. Instinctively I trust Golden slightly more, but at this point I think this is friendly fire that's distracting Day 1 discussion from the other 34 players.

OK, I might be misinterpreting what you're getting at, but are you implying that Epi and Golden manufactured this argument for some ulterior motive?

Yay, I am marmot-approved! I much prefer to though. Luckily Oregon's got plenty of both. (I recently turned 21 and went around to some winery tasting rooms, it was lovely!

SAME TBH
We're finally old enough for the DT.

[DharmaHelper]

Pedantic Pen. Get it? Pendantic.

[Canucklehead]

Pedantic Pen. Get it? Pendantic.

Oh, I got it, old friend.
I think you know full well that our funny bones are perfectly aligned.

:googlyeyes:

[DharmaHelper]

Pedantic Pen. Get it? Pendantic.

Oh, I got it, old friend.
I think you know full well that our funny bones are perfectly aligned.

:googlyeyes:

[Golden]

@dom - Lets not get pedantic with the word know.

Sometimes I know people are good or bad. It's not because I have proof. It's because I just know. I believe epi knows I am not bad. OK?

Also, that meme should have had pink font.

[bea]

Ok so I have a crazy theory. I think MP or llama could be recruiters. I think they have made good points about low posters not getting recruited and then are left unaffiliated and therefor there is no reason to lynch the low posters. It also makes sense that the recruiters would want to take heat away from the more vocal players because they want to recruit those players. I also dont think BR or LC would give an important role like a recruiter to a super low posters or someone who flakes during games. This might sound crazy but I think its possible.

A few questions spring from this post, Bass:

1.) Do you think BR and LC would be willing to forego the true randomness of role selection that is generally necessary for the game of Mafia to even make sense?

2.) How is your theory affected by the fact that MP did not actually state low posters wouldn't get recruited and instead that they might be more likely candidates (as well as being potential recruiters)?

What is the purpose of sign-ups with people that a) Have been leaders before and b) have not been followers? I feel like they would purposely give people that have been leaders before the reigns. I think Bass may be on to something.

I was a recruiter in the last recruitment game and I'd never played a recruitment game before. I think trying to think what rock con would do is a rabbit hole you don't want to jump down. Trust me. They work VERY hard to try to achieve perfect ballance and maximum fun for all players. They aren't going to cherry pick roles. They aren't going to do the things you think most hosts do.

[Marmot]

Pedantic Pen. Get it? Pendantic.

I don't understand. Can you write it out for me?

Linki: Golden, that may work for you, but that doesn't necessarily translate to Epignosis.

[Canucklehead]

Pedantic Pen. Get it? Pendantic.

I don't understand. Can you write it out for me?
.

:slowclap:

[Scotty]

.He doesn't want to end it to his own lynch, is the point.... he knows that BOTH outcomes of that lynch outcome are bad for him.

How does Epi know anything?

Oh, I think he knows I am not bad just fine. He's just having fun.

But you don't seem to be having any fun.

I am not currently having fun.

You know what's fun? Playing lawn darts midday with a bright sun overhead.

Golden, I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up, with all this Arthur/Knights of the Round table stuff. You have 1 vote on you.

It's not about the votes, it's about what's best for the game. I'm not going to panic because someone suspects me, but I don't like to let feuds dominate a thread. I don't think they are helpful.

In King Arthur I felt it was the best course of action for the town to lynch me, so I got them to.

You were in BoB. You will understand the use of ending the LC/golden feud.

I hear the martyr angle. I just don't agree. Are you saying your role is non-essential?

Even that BoB feud was setting a precedent. And if I recall correctly, LC lost that battle and turned out the head of the snake for his mafia team. So I actually think even if it looks cluttered and WIFOM-y it can be helpful. The more someone talks the more I want to strangle them for making me read through their posts, (btw you made almost 700 posts that game) but then also the more it can be used as ammo if they turn out mafia.

I was a recruiter in the last recruitment game and I'd never played a recruitment game before. I think trying to think what rock con would do is a rabbit hole you don't want to jump down. Trust me. They work VERY hard to try to achieve perfect ballance and maximum fun for all players. They aren't going to cherry pick roles. They aren't going to do the things you think most hosts do.

Ah k, thanks for clarifying that. It just seemed like they could have played that angle on my first viewing, but then again I'm still trying to understand what baddie means in this game. Got lost reading through Recruitment III.

[Marmot]

I will not vote for aapje today.

[bea]

While I do think there's value in discussing potential recruiting strategies, that discussion is probably not going to be the eventual motive for my vote on Day 1. I still intend to push for the lynch of a player who I view as suspicious. Recruitment theories are way too speculative to serve as the basis for a lynch choice in my opinion. The insight there might help people to find people to focus on though in such a large roster of players.

I'm curious as to what is suspicious in a game where at least 4 if not 8 of 3O SOMEMTHING players do in fact have a team. Two of which are civ. Are you trying to get a recruiter and do you understand that statistically speaking, you are prolly wrong?

I have btw no better solution to this delema, I'm just curious as to your critera.

TBH, I know I still have like 10 or more pages to catch up on and apparently epi/golden is a thing - but from *this* point, I'm prolly going to randomize and I doubt much will change my opnion. We'll see when I get to the end...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Golden, what do you suppose might Epignosis's anti-town motives be if he is smearing you deliberately right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

While I do think there's value in discussing potential recruiting strategies, that discussion is probably not going to be the eventual motive for my vote on Day 1. I still intend to push for the lynch of a player who I view as suspicious. Recruitment theories are way too speculative to serve as the basis for a lynch choice in my opinion. The insight there might help people to find people to focus on though in such a large roster of players.

I'm curious as to what is suspicious in a game where at least 4 if not 8 of 3O SOMEMTHING players do in fact have a team. Two of which are civ. Are you trying to get a recruiter and do you understand that statistically speaking, you are prolly wrong?

I have btw no better solution to this delema, I'm just curious as to your critera.

TBH, I know I still have like 10 or more pages to catch up on and apparently epi/golden is a thing - but from *this* point, I'm prolly going to randomize and I doubt much will change my opnion. We'll see when I get to the end...

I think the same general things that [insert player] might view as suspicious in a more typical setup are still applicable in this setup. A recruiter or any recruitee, particularly those designated as baddies, are still more likely to be prone to behavioral quirks and manipulative content usually associated with mafia. On that front I am not inclined to handle my vote preferences that differently from now I normally would.

I certainly acknowledge that there are fewer baddies in play right now than a normal alignment ratio would designate, but I think a sincere effort to find them still has to be made. A smaller minority faction doesn't warrant total randomization -- every vote should be motivated by a distinct something; there's still plenty of room to approach this game as though it is based in the fundamental tenants of the activity we know as Mafia.