S~V~S wrote:I never said he is playing like a baddie. I said he is not playing like civ-centric Golden. What if he decides I am incompatible with him? Or you? I am flabbergasted that anyone is actually defending this.
I believe that he killed Epi and is going for the WIFOM. And if Bass does not flip bad, I will wonder about the hard push for him at this point.
I agree he's not playing a civ-centric game, but I don't think he's playing a baddie game either. So in my mind that leaves neutral :P
He hasn't gone for the WIFOM though. He's playing the "I baited the NK" card, not the WIFOM card. I don't know... that would be ballsy as fuck if he killed Epi. And his attitude towards the whole thing has been truly bizarre. If he had the NK, I think Golden would have shut up a long time ago.
MovingPictures07 wrote:S~V~S, to elaborate, I suppose I just feel as though you're putting Golden up to an expectation that is unreasonable, considering he has been quite open about playing a neutral game, and that Epi was a serious threat to Golden's immediate livelihood. I think it's key to note how emotionally-charged Golden's play has been this game, due to being under constant defense for his well being, and from Epi for a while at that.
I feel his behavior in this game is contrary to his non-baddie meta as I know it.
Do you better understand it put like that?
I feel like Golden is playing similar to how he started out in HSK actually, sparring with Epignosis and all. He just took it... a little further this time. I've only seen Golden bad in one game, when he subbed back into Economics, and he played nothing like he is here. He was calm and collected and attracted no attention.
QFT
I still have nightmares of that game, between G-Man masquerading as The Joker and Golden the super secret most bad of all the baddies, lurking in the shadows.
What was wrong with my Joker posts? I loved making those.
Lol, I loved them, I was just making a joke, since The Joker appearing in nightmares saying some of the stuff you posted in that game in his voice would be kinda creepy. :P
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
MovingPictures07 wrote:I still have nightmares of that game, between G-Man masquerading as The Joker and Golden the super secret most bad of all the baddies, lurking in the shadows.
What was wrong with my Joker posts? I loved making those.
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think people who vote BWT based in part on his Day 1 content including the "go civs" comment bear some obligation to comment on his Day 2 content. He has provided quite a bit of it and it needs to be acknowledged one way or another.
I agree, and I still demand explanation from BWT voters, because I've seen BWT as consistently genuine this game.
I am sorry if ya'll don't like my suspicion but it is my suspicion. Now he does this no u case on unfurl and I don't agree with any of it. I agrew with unfurl that some of his wording is similar to your (MP) wording from Day 1.
I feel good about my vote and am leaving it there.
Bass and his responses read to me like he is not recruited but maybe he has a "bad" role? iunno but I every time I go against my own gut I regret it.
Golden is reading as genuine - I guess I am just not as convinced as his voters seem to be.
S~V~S wrote:I never said he is playing like a baddie. I said he is not playing like civ-centric Golden. What if he decides I am incompatible with him? Or you? I am flabbergasted that anyone is actually defending this.
I believe that he killed Epi and is going for the WIFOM. And if Bass does not flip bad, I will wonder about the hard push for him at this point.
I agree he's not playing a civ-centric game, but I don't think he's playing a baddie game either. So in my mind that leaves neutral :P
He hasn't gone for the WIFOM though. He's playing the "I baited the NK" card, not the WIFOM card. I don't know... that would be ballsy as fuck if he killed Epi. And his attitude towards the whole thing has been truly bizarre. If he had the NK, I think Golden would have shut up a long time ago.
I agree completely.
S~V~S, I think, regardless of whether you want to admit it to yourself or anyone else wants to as well, that the vast majority of players are operating under a similar mindset to Golden at this stage in the game, and are merely playing for the civilians (1) for show, (2) to not attract attention, and/or (3) because they recognize the likelihood of being recruited to civilian side is more likely statistically, etc., or any combination. I do not think most players genuinely see themselves as 100% civilian at this point.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think people who vote BWT based in part on his Day 1 content including the "go civs" comment bear some obligation to comment on his Day 2 content. He has provided quite a bit of it and it needs to be acknowledged one way or another.
I agree, and I still demand explanation from BWT voters, because I've seen BWT as consistently genuine this game.
I am sorry if ya'll don't like my suspicion but it is my suspicion. Now he does this no u case on unfurl and I don't agree with any of it. I agrew with unfurl that some of his wording is similar to your (MP) wording from Day 1.
I feel good about my vote and am leaving it there.
Bass and his responses read to me like he is not recruited but maybe he has a "bad" role? iunno but I every time I go against my own gut I regret it.
Golden is reading as genuine - I guess I am just not as convinced as his voters seem to be.
got another page or so.
I'm totally fine with you suspecting whom you want. I just am seeing a totally different perspective on BWT than you are, apparently.
I think BWT tends to parrot players and suspicions more when he's civilian than when he's a mafia. What do you think?
You keep saying similar comments about Bass, but you're unwilling to pull the trigger. Why? What do you mean by the gut comment exactly?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Roxy, would you agree that it's important for a player to have substantive supporting content in his/her post history which clearly explains why any eventual final vote has been placed?
Well, so be it, I think it's naive to think otherwise, but that's just my take. The only reason you're being hard on Golden is because he's being honest about it.
Been away for most of today, and don't have time to catch up completely. However, I noted that Dr. Wilgy finally came through on the explanation and seemed to do a good job of it. Briefly looking at things, I'm really very pinged by G-Man changing votes to Bass despite claiming that this change "has very little to do with any suspicion of Bass." I'm more pinged by him saying this move is to "keep Golden around." As I'm already suspicious of Golden, this claim makes me want to ensure that Golden doesn't stick around. *votes Golden*
linki: Heh, Dr. Wilgy is on call all day every day.
As I said, I think it very possible that Golden killed Epi directly and is relying on the old WIFOM. In any case, with his "if you are not for me, you should be dead" atttitude, I feel he is a threat to me.
Linki, no not at all. It has zero to do with honesty, and everything to do with intent. Pod Golden. Not honest Golden, i know Honest Golden.
Skip softly, my moonbeams, for I have heard tell
That the stairs up to heaven lead straight down to hell
I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
*Shivers* Ooh yes!! this has taken a rather interesting turn! *Goes into the kitchen to retrieve much needed coke and whisky*
Do forgive me my friends! I have fallen rather behind. From a quick skim I have decided that I'm more comfortable with a Bass lynch than a Golden lynch. So that this will happen I have changed my vote
Vote registered for Bass the Cleaver
Now do not fear everyone. I shall respond to everything shortly.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:56 pm
@DrWilgy don't post any more k
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
TinyBubbles wrote:Hey all i've been reeeeeally busy and just havent had time to read all posts,sorry. i'm willing to change my vote from turniphead to either golden or bass since that's where things seem to be headed.. golden hasn't seemed totally his upfront self like from previous games, it's giving me goosebumps. what's the case against bass though?
So, Golden gives svs chills and Bubbles goosebumps
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Roxy, would you agree that it's important for a player to have substantive supporting content in his/her post history which clearly explains why any eventual final vote has been placed?
Substantial in whose eyes?
Definitely the eyes of those viewing that post history without the benefit of first-person understanding of it.
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
nutella wrote:Okay, that's totally fair. I have read his responses as genuine for the most part but I can definitely get where you're coming from. I'm inclined to think he's an unrecruited who's not devoting much effort to playing the game at this point.
linki @ Roxy: I'm looking through your posts and I see no explanation. In fact I do not see mention of BWT besides asking his D1 voters whether they still suspect him or not. The only thing I see is your first post after the EOD when you comment on BWT's "Go Civs" comment -- and that is right after you say you probably would not have voted for him because he is "generally wacky". Is the "go civvies" comment your sole reason for suspecting he was recruited? Or did I miss something else in your posts, because I don't see any more mention of suspecting him between then and your vote.
Well then you did see it. That post felt unnatural to me. I stated something about and despite being in the thread and claimed to have read he never even mentioned it.
I don't mean to no u but your vote for Bass to prod him after not really mentioning him before is sort of the same thing - just saying hey I think you could be bad - show me that you are not.
Just catching up and posting as I go
Sorry, "not really mentioning him before"? What? I voted for Bass on Day 1 after explicitly stating that I found him suspicious because of the "crazy theory" post. My vote for him today is consistent with that suspicion and because at that point he had not even posted again since then to reply/defend. Not at all like your vote for BWT. You mentioned that one post briefly (and to be fair you didn't even direct your comment at him to elicit a response), made a couple other posts in between in which you didn't bring up his name at all (except indirectly to, ironically enough, call out those who had voted for him), and then suddenly announced your vote without explaining it or even calling back to that one post.
Oh well color me corrected but I am still not convinced that my Teeth suspicion is not correct.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
See what I dont understand is why people are cool with me flipping neutral. Can someone explain that to me?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
See what I dont understand is why people are cool with me flipping neutral. Can someone explain that to me?
People have been explaining it.
You appear to be coming up with suspicions and thoughts on players merely because you have to, particularly in your recent posts. For most of the game you only talked about me, saying things that just weren't true (whether they were intentional or a mistake, I don't know, but you didn't bother to back off of me at all despite the fact that I thought I addressed your suspicion), and thus you were unwilling to listen to me and consider that you could be wrong.
The way you interacted with Golden and others seems much more indicative of your mafia game, for my purposes, whereas literally everything I've read from Golden reads genuine to me. I have no doubt in my mind about Golden. I have every doubt in my mind about your intentions and I struggle to get behind your perspective in almost every post you've made this game.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
See what I dont understand is why people are cool with me flipping neutral. Can someone explain that to me?
People have been explaining it.
You appear to be coming up with suspicions and thoughts on players merely because you have to, particularly in your recent posts. For most of the game you only talked about me, saying things that just weren't true (whether they were intentional or a mistake, I don't know, but you didn't bother to back off of me at all despite the fact that I thought I addressed your suspicion), and thus you were unwilling to listen to me and consider that you could be wrong.
The way you interacted with Golden and others seems much more indicative of your mafia game, for my purposes, whereas literally everything I've read from Golden reads genuine to me. I have no doubt in my mind about Golden. I have every doubt in my mind about your intentions and I struggle to get behind your perspective in almost every post you've made this game.
Oh I see well do you think its possible you don't doubt Golden because he was all about an MP save.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
See what I dont understand is why people are cool with me flipping neutral. Can someone explain that to me?
People have been explaining it.
You appear to be coming up with suspicions and thoughts on players merely because you have to, particularly in your recent posts. For most of the game you only talked about me, saying things that just weren't true (whether they were intentional or a mistake, I don't know, but you didn't bother to back off of me at all despite the fact that I thought I addressed your suspicion), and thus you were unwilling to listen to me and consider that you could be wrong.
The way you interacted with Golden and others seems much more indicative of your mafia game, for my purposes, whereas literally everything I've read from Golden reads genuine to me. I have no doubt in my mind about Golden. I have every doubt in my mind about your intentions and I struggle to get behind your perspective in almost every post you've made this game.
Oh I see well do you think its possible you don't doubt Golden because he was all about an MP save.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Your posts have been opportunistic and manipulative in tone. Why should I or anyone else trust you even remotely?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think people who vote BWT based in part on his Day 1 content including the "go civs" comment bear some obligation to comment on his Day 2 content. He has provided quite a bit of it and it needs to be acknowledged one way or another.
I agree, and I still demand explanation from BWT voters, because I've seen BWT as consistently genuine this game.
I am sorry if ya'll don't like my suspicion but it is my suspicion. Now he does this no u case on unfurl and I don't agree with any of it. I agrew with unfurl that some of his wording is similar to your (MP) wording from Day 1.
I feel good about my vote and am leaving it there.
Bass and his responses read to me like he is not recruited but maybe he has a "bad" role? iunno but I every time I go against my own gut I regret it.
Golden is reading as genuine - I guess I am just not as convinced as his voters seem to be.
got another page or so.
I'm totally fine with you suspecting whom you want. I just am seeing a totally different perspective on BWT than you are, apparently.
I think BWT tends to parrot players and suspicions more when he's civilian than when he's a mafia. What do you think?
You keep saying similar comments about Bass, but you're unwilling to pull the trigger. Why? What do you mean by the gut comment exactly?
I disagree about Teeth as i have seen him play different ways before. I have seen him parrot as a civ and as a mafia and I have seen him offer original thought as a civ and as a mafia.
No I do not want to help lynch my son bc I think he is unrecruited aorn.
I don't want to go against my gut (aka My Teeth suspicion) bc I have usually regretted it later.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Roxy, would you agree that it's important for a player to have substantive supporting content in his/her post history which clearly explains why any eventual final vote has been placed?
Substantial in whose eyes?
Definitely the eyes of those viewing that post history without the benefit of first-person understanding of it.
MovingPictures07 wrote:S~V~S, to elaborate, I suppose I just feel as though you're putting Golden up to an expectation that is unreasonable, considering he has been quite open about playing a neutral game, and that Epi was a serious threat to Golden's immediate livelihood. I think it's key to note how emotionally-charged Golden's play has been this game, due to being under constant defense for his well being, and from Epi for a while at that.
I feel his behavior in this game is contrary to his non-baddie meta as I know it.
Do you better understand it put like that?
To be precise, i feel he is behaving contrary to the non-baddie standard he sets for HIMSELF. I did not set him this standard; he did, and he knows I am right is saying so.
I disagree that I'm behaving contrary to my own non-baddie standard, and I've tried to explain why. I don't think epi was civ. There are plenty of times I've ignored what everyone else thinks because I think someone is not civ. Aces in Roger Rabbit comes to mind as a prime example.
I DO agree that I have done something I've never done before, that looks very different. I've tried to compare it to past big moves I've made like in King Arthur. You've said you could understand the civ motivation there but not here. I get it, that you do not see it as the same thing, and I think your view on that is genuine. I just don't know what more I could do to explain myself.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
Well, I suppose you're right; I perhaps am not being understanding enough of the opposite perspective myself, but I'll still be very disappointed if Golden gets lynched and flips neutral (or, worse, civilian-aligned, but I would doubt that).
See what I dont understand is why people are cool with me flipping neutral. Can someone explain that to me?
People have been explaining it.
You appear to be coming up with suspicions and thoughts on players merely because you have to, particularly in your recent posts. For most of the game you only talked about me, saying things that just weren't true (whether they were intentional or a mistake, I don't know, but you didn't bother to back off of me at all despite the fact that I thought I addressed your suspicion), and thus you were unwilling to listen to me and consider that you could be wrong.
The way you interacted with Golden and others seems much more indicative of your mafia game, for my purposes, whereas literally everything I've read from Golden reads genuine to me. I have no doubt in my mind about Golden. I have every doubt in my mind about your intentions and I struggle to get behind your perspective in almost every post you've made this game.
Oh I see well do you think its possible you don't doubt Golden because he was all about an MP save.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Your posts have been opportunistic and manipulative in tone. Why should I or anyone else trust you even remotely?
I was just asking a question? Put yourself in my shoes, would you have not asked the same thing?
MovingPictures07 wrote:S~V~S, to elaborate, I suppose I just feel as though you're putting Golden up to an expectation that is unreasonable, considering he has been quite open about playing a neutral game, and that Epi was a serious threat to Golden's immediate livelihood. I think it's key to note how emotionally-charged Golden's play has been this game, due to being under constant defense for his well being, and from Epi for a while at that.
I feel his behavior in this game is contrary to his non-baddie meta as I know it.
Do you better understand it put like that?
I feel like Golden is playing similar to how he started out in HSK actually, sparring with Epignosis and all. He just took it... a little further this time. I've only seen Golden bad in one game, when he subbed back into Economics, and he played nothing like he is here. He was calm and collected and attracted no attention.
I never said he is playing like a baddie. I said he is not playing like civ-centric Golden. What if he decides I am incompatible with him? Or you? I am flabbergasted that anyone is actually defending this.
I believe that he killed Epi and is going for the WIFOM. And if Bass does not flip bad, I will wonder about the hard push for him at this point.
SVS, if later in this game I'm civ and decide I think you are bad, then I am deciding you are incompatible with me, but I'm doing so in a civ/baddie context. What is the difference for epi?
"If I had killed epi, I would have just said 'looks like someone is trying to set me up' and left it at that. The fact I was open about my day one motivations should be the hint you need to realise the kill was not me."
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I perceived the Day 1 duel between Epignosis and Golden to be neutral-neutral, which is an uninspired read because nearly every interaction on Day 1 was neutral-neutral. This game is unique though, and I think a perspective of neutral-neutral -- one that is distinctly espoused as a read -- is akin to reading an interaction as civilian-civilian in a more typical game. In this regard I understand S~V~S's perspective about Epi in the context of the Day 1 discussion.
I don't think this reflects poorly on Golden, but I understand why S~V~S is pursuing this angle.
That's fair enough; I understand why she feels the way she does as well. I just am trying to help her see it from another perspective, since Golden's posts have just been oozing sincerity to me, and I feel he is being over scrutinized over other players.
Over scrutinized? I disagree, MP. He made a very bold move, and no one is bringing up this possibility, but there is a very real possibility that Golden killed Epignosis himself. Golden deserves a lot of scrutiny in my opinion.
Some day, Some day
Some day I'll, I wanna wear a starry crown
Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Oh I see well do you think its possible you don't doubt Golden because he was all about an MP save.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Your posts have been opportunistic and manipulative in tone. Why should I or anyone else trust you even remotely?
I was just asking a question? Put yourself in my shoes, would you have not asked the same thing?
No, I would not have asked that same thing. Nonetheless, I'll answer your question.
I've considered the fact that Golden seemed more intent on lynching you over me, but didn't seem to have too strong of an opinion on either of us, but it really has no effect on the fact that his posts read exactly the way he's been crafting them, all game.
I do not get why it is ok to lynch someone you do not think is recruited bc he is a good choice for recruitment - huh? Obv not bc it has led to a likely lynch.
I have been questioned over my suspicion but to me this is really weak.
Keep dreaming MP I see now you are indeed looking for easy lynches.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
TinyBubbles wrote:Hey all i've been reeeeeally busy and just havent had time to read all posts,sorry. i'm willing to change my vote from turniphead to either golden or bass since that's where things seem to be headed.. golden hasn't seemed totally his upfront self like from previous games, it's giving me goosebumps. what's the case against bass though?
So, Golden gives svs chills and Bubbles goosebumps
Tranq wrote:Uh i got drunk and fell asleep... Why did DP, Scotty and timmer vote for themselves?
I'm voting for one of these three players.
I remember agreeing with some of timmer's posts so he won't get my vote. A quick look through their posts shows Scotty has been trying to play while DP has not.
Roxy wrote:I do not get why it is ok to lynch someone you do not think is recruited bc he is a good choice for recruitment - huh? Obv not bc it has led to a likely lynch.
I have been questioned over my suspicion but to me this is really weak.
Keep dreaming MP I see now you are indeed looking for easy lynches.
I don't understand your first line. Can you reword? I don't understand who "he" is.
You've been questioned over your suspicion because it seems several players do not legitimately understand fully why you suspect BWT. Perhaps you should realize that's not because we have skipped your posts but because it's not entirely clear.
Turnip Head wrote:I can definitely see how you (or anyone) would view Golden as a threat at this point. He basically stopped short of calling the Epignosis kill "a demonstration".
I do see the irony in SVS seeing me as a threat and wants to vote me, essentially because I did what I could to get rid of the person I thought was a threat.
[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]
