Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[Marmot]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Approximately 50% of the players in this game are neutral though.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy is shaking violently in the corner of the room... His stress levels have driven him past insanity... He talks to the cracks in the walls...

*side-note to this: does Wilgy have any opinion on other players who also failed to save Golden (such as MP) or is Sorsha the only player you noticed?

The only other players I'm interested at this point are SVS, Unfurl, Sorsha, and Dom...

Wilgy places his face in the ground and, very similarly to a worm, begins to scoot to another corner of the room.

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

I'll add Devin to this too.

Some of these players for just jumping on the bandwagon. And Scotty for the case being skewed in the negative. Wilgy is kinda iffy for the list, I'm not sure of his intentions. Up until he started questioning me it didn't seem like he was taking anything too seriously, so his change in tone today is what causes me some concern.

I'm so sorry Sorsha... I didn't want this. Regarding my last question. Say a name, pick anyone. Who would MoAA swap Epi with if Epi were swapped... If my tone was different, I swear it to be caused by the alcohol and how busy I was...

Wilgy can now be seen saying the word "MoAA... MoAA... MoAA..." No one can tell if there is anything to be found behind his insanity, or if he just likes the word MoAA and the odd shape it makes your mouth take as you say it.

[Tangrowth]

Rox, why are you fixating on high posters? Can't you make the same mirrored argument about low posters?

When I was saying earlier that we should consider everyone as recruited/recruitee, I was including high and low posters. I'm all for discussing them with you, but I personally do not have any strong reason to believe any of the top 5 or so high posters are recruited at this time. You seem to think that Jay is. Do you think any of the others are?

It's entirely possible that no "high" posters are recruited at this time. It's also possible that one is, whether mafia or civilian. Anything is possible. At this time, Metalmarsh89 seems most likely to me as a mafia recruit, as evidenced by my list.

Because I feel the high posters are never going to look at themselves so someone should don't you think? I am not fixated on them but I do want to know why you listed high posters only as poss Neutral or Civvie?
My fear this game is people will be lead by a strong thread presence and continue to lynch whoever seems the most talked about instead of everyone contributing their own perspective on what is happening in the thread.

I didn't, though. I put MM in the slightly mafia range and reywaS in my moderate range. They're "high" posters. Also, I look at high posters all the time. But I'm glad that you're looking at them. I'm not saying that you shouldn't.

Your fear is unfounded. Look at Golden's lynch. I don't think so. Anyway, I can understand your fear, but I think a decent amount of the players have been trying to do their best to avoid it. Some aren't though.

[thellama73]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

I understand where you're coming from and I have shared your frustration from time to time, but two things:
1) Gut reads are a legitimate strategy, even if you prefer well constructed cases. It doesn't mean those players are playing wrong.
2) This game is unique in that there are not just two options - mafia and civilian - but there are also neutral players. That changes things, and makes everything more complex. Is a neutral supposed to baddie hunt, or try to get recruited by the team they think is winning, or just try to survive, or what? I think there's an ambiguity there.

[Dom]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

JJJ, yes, MP reacts this way pretty much anytime anyone suspects him. Even historically speaking, I would say that's true.

I alsow ant to respond to your Boomslang case-- can you explain why these things make him bad-- specifically a recruiter? I see you pointing some things out as behavior, but it lacks a clear link to a theory.

That's going to have to wait until later, I'm going to sleep after this day ends. What I'll say now is that I think Boomslang could be recruiter OR recruitee -- and I think behavioral analysis is the whole point.

That's okay! I'm more than willing to consider a Boom vote in the future, but I'm just not sure I am connecting all the dots you are.

[Tangrowth]

Rox, you want to talk about higher posters. What about reywaS? He currently is #6. What do you think of him?

I did not like his non reaction to the Golden lynch and his disappearance after. I really felt he shifted to Golden with a progression - yes - but it did not *feel* right to me. I know you will think that is not clear but something about the way posted - tone- mixed with vibe. Its all I got.

I agree; I'd like to hear from him as well.

I actually can relate to what you're saying here with tone, but I don't feel strongly about reywaS at this time. I've had moments where I thought he has appeared genuine and moments where I thought he has appeared opportunistic.

[Tangrowth]

Why don't you think a baddie Devin would say that?

I get emotional when I get accused game after game with incredibly vague and bullsuit accusations that I cannot possibly defend against. I don't care if people disagree with me; I've shown that time and time again.

Because baddies try to blend in and at least come up with semi-plausible reasons for their votes. An off the wall reason like "He made me read" is eye-catching, sloppy, and a rookie move. I don't see Devin doing that.

I suppose that's a fair interpretation, but it's inevitably covered with WIFOM.

[Dom]

MP, once again you conveniently freak out about someone not playing the way you like people to play only when it threatens you, then expand it to make it seem like you suspect people who do it.
And then wonder why people think that's suspicious.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, I do want to hear what Devin has to say about the matter, since many of his opinions he hasn't fully explained.

[Marmot]

Rox, why are you fixating on high posters? Can't you make the same mirrored argument about low posters?

When I was saying earlier that we should consider everyone as recruited/recruitee, I was including high and low posters. I'm all for discussing them with you, but I personally do not have any strong reason to believe any of the top 5 or so high posters are recruited at this time. You seem to think that Jay is. Do you think any of the others are?

It's entirely possible that no "high" posters are recruited at this time. It's also possible that one is, whether mafia or civilian. Anything is possible. At this time, Metalmarsh89 seems most likely to me as a mafia recruit, as evidenced by my list.

Why? And what the fuck does your list even say about this?

Overreaction?

I don't have any reason to suspect you heavily at this time; you are in the light orange section of my rainbow list, but you're the lowest of the top 5 posters. Rox asked me about high posters so that's what I told her. I can't make heads or tails of your gameplay, but I do think you're more apt to be recruited/recruiter at this time than me (duh), Jay, Rico, and DH. I don't have a strong assertion of suspicion of you by which to back that up; in fact, it's the weakest possible, but I was asked, so.

Do you have any suspicions?

Is it an overreaction? Perhaps. But I don't like rainbow lists in general (and I've made this very clear before), and now you've suggested that your list points to me as most likely to be a mafia recruit. How did you come to this conclusion?

No, I don't have any suspicions.

Okay, you don't like rainbow lists. Fine. But I love them. So I'm making them.

I put you in the light orange section because you've not done any hunting. I know you're capable of it. I don't know what to think of you. I think it would be really easy for a recruiter or a recruitee to hide behind the massive amount of posts you've been making and avoid any serious contention for death for quite some time. At least DH throws out one-liner observations every now and again. You basically NO U'd nutella when she called you out for your unproductive gameplay.

Now you're doing the same to me.

I thought my Day 3 vote for nutella was obvious. I think Jay understood it.

I guess it's a NoU, but that comment felt like a setup. You had not commented on me or my behavior at all this game until I directed it at you recently. But you still listed me at one point as a "player most likely to be mafia recruitee", based solely on my post count and where I fell on your rainbow list. Considering how you've been able to keep up a vast post count and player analysis, why did my play not matter until you became a victim of it?

[thellama73]

Why don't you think a baddie Devin would say that?

I get emotional when I get accused game after game with incredibly vague and bullsuit accusations that I cannot possibly defend against. I don't care if people disagree with me; I've shown that time and time again.

Because baddies try to blend in and at least come up with semi-plausible reasons for their votes. An off the wall reason like "He made me read" is eye-catching, sloppy, and a rookie move. I don't see Devin doing that.

I suppose that's a fair interpretation, but it's inevitably covered with WIFOM.

True, but is there any baddie hunting that isn't? Your whole case is built around certain behaviors you associate with baddiness, but a baddie tries to avoid those behaviors, so it's WIFOM.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let your feelings be revealing.

Spoiler: show

[Marmot]

The only other players I'm interested at this point are SVS, Unfurl, Sorsha, and Dom...

I thought we was friends.

[Tangrowth]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Approximately 50% of the players in this game are neutral though.

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

I understand where you're coming from and I have shared your frustration from time to time, but two things:
1) Gut reads are a legitimate strategy, even if you prefer well constructed cases. It doesn't mean those players are playing wrong.
2) This game is unique in that there are not just two options - mafia and civilian - but there are also neutral players. That changes things, and makes everything more complex. Is a neutral supposed to baddie hunt, or try to get recruited by the team they think is winning, or just try to survive, or what? I think there's an ambiguity there.

I understand this game is different; I've even admitted that and espoused a similar viewpoint. I realize there are still neutrals.

Gut reads are legitimate, sure, but there is always a reason that someone thinks anything, even if that reason is driven by something largely emotional in nature -- emotions and reason aren't mutually exclusive.

Good question regarding the neutral, but the problem is that it leaves a convenient option for a mafia member to appear like a neutral, refuse to commit to anything for the first few cycles, then eventually stepping up. Meanwhile, plenty of other players have been lynched/NKed. So I think it's good to keep a healthy skepticism toward the players who are refusing to commit to any hunting, especially now that it's Day 4.

[Dom]

Considering how you've been able to keep up a vast post count and player analysis, why did my play not matter until you became a victim of it?

[thellama73]

Good question regarding the neutral, but the problem is that it leaves a convenient option for a mafia member to appear like a neutral, refuse to commit to anything for the first few cycles, then eventually stepping up. Meanwhile, plenty of other players have been lynched/NKed. So I think it's good to keep a healthy skepticism toward the players who are refusing to commit to any hunting, especially now that it's Day 4.

Oh, I completely agree with this, and it's part of why TinyBubbles and DharmaHelper are high on my suspect list. I just think it's important to remember that there are other motivations besides "kill the baddies/kill the civvies" floating around out there right now.

[Tangrowth]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

Sure, I'll admit, I was mad. I've cooled off a bit. I take the game probably way too seriously sometimes, and post without walking away when I should. I've been trying to improve it, but apparently I still suck at it. For that, I apologize. I can take suspicion. I just get pissed off when someone comes in and accuses me of deception with incredibly weak/unsubstantiated reasoning after I've spent a lot of time posting/analyzing/whatever. I obviously need to take a step away and realize that it's just part of the game and not to get so worked up.

[DrWilgy]

The only other players I'm interested at this point are SVS, Unfurl, Sorsha, and Dom...

I thought we was friends.

Runs over to MM and gives a hug. Wilgy's eye is still twitching. OF COURSE WE ARE FRIENDS. I just am not suspicious of you... You would never betray your friends right... RIGHT?

[Black Rock]

hi guys, still at work. Will be done at 11 and get that post straight to you. Thanks for your continued patience.

[thellama73]

hi guys, still at work. Will be done at 11 and get that post straight to you. Thanks for your continued patience.

No, thank YOU.

[Dom]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

Sure, I'll admit, I was mad. I've cooled off a bit. I take the game probably way too seriously sometimes, and post without walking away when I should. I've been trying to improve it, but apparently I still suck at it. For that, I apologize. I can take suspicion. I just get pissed off when someone comes in and accuses me of deception with incredibly weak/unsubstantiated reasoning after I've spent a lot of time posting/analyzing/whatever. I obviously need to take a step away and realize that it's just part of the game and not to get so worked up.

Don't sidestep this issue by making it about how you are "bad at walking away". That is an issue, but not the issue that is relevant to this game.
The real issue here is that you just attacked MM only for suspecting you. Yet, you give TinyBubbles and Dharmahelper and DFaraday free passes on this. Why the attention on MM?

[Tangrowth]

I thought my Day 3 vote for nutella was obvious. I think Jay understood it.

I guess it's a NoU, but that comment felt like a setup. You had not commented on me or my behavior at all this game until I directed it at you recently. But you still listed me at one point as a "player most likely to be mafia recruitee", based solely on my post count and where I fell on your rainbow list. Considering how you've been able to keep up a vast post count and player analysis, why did my play not matter until you became a victim of it?

Well, clearly I didn't. I forced myself to commit to a read for every player in my rainbow list. You don't like it? Then prove me wrong.

What comment felt like a setup?

No, I hadn't, fair enough. I've probably not directly commented on everyone's gameplay this game. I was responding to a question by Rox where she asked me about high posters, and you were the one of the top five lowest on my list, so yeah, I was explaining to her that I thought you were most likely to be bad based on a certain group. What's your point? I don't understand.

Your play isn't the only one I have qualms with -- DP, TinyBubbles, etc. have contributed the same amount. I don't know what you expect of me. I haven't really commented on you or gone after you aggressively because you haven't been one of my biggest suspects. I thought that was clear by my placement of you in my rainbow list.

[Principal Skinner]

you're all bad

[Tangrowth]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

Sure, I'll admit, I was mad. I've cooled off a bit. I take the game probably way too seriously sometimes, and post without walking away when I should. I've been trying to improve it, but apparently I still suck at it. For that, I apologize. I can take suspicion. I just get pissed off when someone comes in and accuses me of deception with incredibly weak/unsubstantiated reasoning after I've spent a lot of time posting/analyzing/whatever. I obviously need to take a step away and realize that it's just part of the game and not to get so worked up.

Don't sidestep this issue by making it about how you are "bad at walking away". That is an issue, but not the issue that is relevant to this game.
The real issue here is that you just attacked MM only for suspecting you. Yet, you give TinyBubbles and Dharmahelper and DFaraday free passes on this. Why the attention on MM?

What are you talking about? TinyBubbles, DH, and DFaraday haven't accused me for no reason whatsoever.

[Dom]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

Sure, I'll admit, I was mad. I've cooled off a bit. I take the game probably way too seriously sometimes, and post without walking away when I should. I've been trying to improve it, but apparently I still suck at it. For that, I apologize. I can take suspicion. I just get pissed off when someone comes in and accuses me of deception with incredibly weak/unsubstantiated reasoning after I've spent a lot of time posting/analyzing/whatever. I obviously need to take a step away and realize that it's just part of the game and not to get so worked up.

Don't sidestep this issue by making it about how you are "bad at walking away". That is an issue, but not the issue that is relevant to this game.
The real issue here is that you just attacked MM only for suspecting you. Yet, you give TinyBubbles and Dharmahelper and DFaraday free passes on this. Why the attention on MM?

What are you talking about? TinyBubbles, DH, and DFaraday haven't accused me for no reason whatsoever.

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

[Tangrowth]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

[Dom]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

No no no no no.
You called him out and told him to play the game right. Because, according to you, there's a right way to play this game.
So when he played the game incorrectly for the past three day/night cycles, why did you sit quietly by?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sleepy time now.

[Dom]

Hey MP, if I remember correctly, you were an advocate for Position 4, right?

[Marmot]

Look guys, I'm sorry, but I think it's completely unfair to throw out a baseless accusation at this stage of the game. Why even bother playing the game? If some players are just going to sit back and not even play it, then it ruins the game for the players who actually do play. Mafia is a game where you either are a civilian and try to baddie hunt, or you're mafia and try to act like a civilian. If I invest hours upon hours of my free time, of which I barely have any (it practically almost all goes to this game), and then some of the players don't even play the game by not posting or by posting a bunch of fluff and not issuing any opinions, then I won't play. It's clear I need a break from mafia, because I'm stressed out enough RL with the PhD as it is, and I've become testier in games over the past year as a result. I apologize for that. But you can understand why I'd get upset investing time into ISOing Devin's posts only to have it immediately denounced by two players as if I have underhanded intentions, with accusations that are impossible for me to defend against at that.

At least you've given me a reason now, MM, and I will next post a response to that post and the other two Roxy posts I wanted to respond to.

Then lynch DharmaHelper, TinyBubbles, DFaraday....
You're only mad because MM named you.

Sure, I'll admit, I was mad. I've cooled off a bit. I take the game probably way too seriously sometimes, and post without walking away when I should. I've been trying to improve it, but apparently I still suck at it. For that, I apologize. I can take suspicion. I just get pissed off when someone comes in and accuses me of deception with incredibly weak/unsubstantiated reasoning after I've spent a lot of time posting/analyzing/whatever. I obviously need to take a step away and realize that it's just part of the game and not to get so worked up.

I understand. I have played several games on this site where I feel I've gone A and B the C of D, and gotten a tough luck loss in the process. On the other hand, look at my 6 wins. 4 of those games I did jack shit (including 2 where I got lynched Day 1), and the fifth one I blew up on SVS and got lynched for it, and only won because my teammates held on for the W.

I don't want to call it a winning formula or anything, but I just don't always feel like playing balls-to-the-wall, and experience is proving to me that it's not really justifiable anyway. But I do like to have fun, so yes I do selfishly do that sometimes.

[thellama73]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

The point Dom is making is that you claim to be upset at people not playing the game, but that only manifested itself when YOU were accused, not at any other point during the game. His point is that you don't really have a problem with people not playing, you just have a problem with people coming after you. I don't want to put words in Dom's mouth, but I'm going to put two in anyway, and those two are "hypocrisy" and "opportunism".

[Tangrowth]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

No no no no no.
You called him out and told him to play the game right. Because, according to you, there's a right way to play this game.
So when he played the game incorrectly for the past three day/night cycles, why did you sit quietly by?

I don't know what you expect from me; I can't pursue literally every player in the game at once. I thought he was trying to pull some BS on me, and I was here, so I called him out.

I still am not campaigning for his lynch over everyone else's, but it's frustrating to be called out for an unsubstantiated accusation on D4 after your accuser has gone the entire game without doing much of anything. That's all.

[Tangrowth]

Hey MP, if I remember correctly, you were an advocate for Position 4, right?

Sure, I voted for it. Not every time, but I think twice (?).

[Marmot]

The only other players I'm interested at this point are SVS, Unfurl, Sorsha, and Dom...

I thought we was friends.

Runs over to MM and gives a hug. Wilgy's eye is still twitching. OF COURSE WE ARE FRIENDS. I just am not suspicious of you... You would never betray your friends right... RIGHT?

Oh... THAT kind of interest. Hugs for all!

No I would not betray a friend.

[Tangrowth]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

The point Dom is making is that you claim to be upset at people not playing the game, but that only manifested itself when YOU were accused, not at any other point during the game. His point is that you don't really have a problem with people not playing, you just have a problem with people coming after you. I don't want to put words in Dom's mouth, but I'm going to put two in anyway, and those two are "hypocrisy" and "opportunism".

I do have a problem with people not playing, but I can't very well lynch people not playing, legitimate suspects that I do have all in one Day period. I also can't possibly have every single player in a game this size on my radar all from the getgo. Should I have called MM out earlier? Sure, probably.

[Dom]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

The point Dom is making is that you claim to be upset at people not playing the game, but that only manifested itself when YOU were accused, not at any other point during the game. His point is that you don't really have a problem with people not playing, you just have a problem with people coming after you. I don't want to put words in Dom's mouth, but I'm going to put two in anyway, and those two are "hypocrisy" and "opportunism".

I'll say them louder for the people in the back.


Alex, your play is hypocritical. You are only suspicious of MM and brought this much attention to him because he suspects you. You don't give a damn about how he's playing the game, because if you did, you would have suspected him long ago. You are being an opportunist on an easy-to-lynch person.

Additionally, I'll just spring that question I laid up there while I'm posting, since I'm playing for the balcony here.
You voted for Position 4. It benefits your role. Your words.
However, it CERTAINLY does not benefit the civilian cause to vote Position 4. It's almost like you are hiding under the guise of neutrality to keep yourself from being suspected. . .
which is something you just said is suspicious.

[Tangrowth]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

[Marmot]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

But when I started commenting today, you literally told me to go away.

[Dom]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

This addresses nothing I said and only admits guilt.

[Tangrowth]

Why did MM's play style matter little until the attention came to you?

It hasn't mattered little. I haven't said much, if really anything about it, sure. I haven't had a strong reason to pursue him.

I called him out for his reasoning on me because he was accusing me.

I'm really lost; what are you trying to discern exactly?

The point Dom is making is that you claim to be upset at people not playing the game, but that only manifested itself when YOU were accused, not at any other point during the game. His point is that you don't really have a problem with people not playing, you just have a problem with people coming after you. I don't want to put words in Dom's mouth, but I'm going to put two in anyway, and those two are "hypocrisy" and "opportunism".

I'll say them louder for the people in the back.


Alex, your play is hypocritical. You are only suspicious of MM and brought this much attention to him because he suspects you. You don't give a damn about how he's playing the game, because if you did, you would have suspected him long ago. You are being an opportunist on an easy-to-lynch person.

Additionally, I'll just spring that question I laid up there while I'm posting, since I'm playing for the balcony here.
You voted for Position 4. It benefits your role. Your words.
However, it CERTAINLY does not benefit the civilian cause to vote Position 4. It's almost like you are hiding under the guise of neutrality to keep yourself from being suspected. . .
which is something you just said is suspicious.

Okay, I get it. Fine, I'm hypocritical, I'll admit it. Opportunistic? I know I'm not being opportunistic, so no, but I suppose I can see why you see the situation that way.

Believe what you want, but I do give a damn about how everyone plays the game, and that should be evident in the fact that I'm playing this game as hard as I am.

I won't admit to even being remotely good at this game. I try my best. I realize everything I say isn't always logically sound or devoid of logical fallacy or even hypocrisy, so I'm glad you pointed this out. I apologize to MM for getting upset. I'm just not cut out to play this game and be a completely rational robot that makes the best arguments and never fails to react more heavily to suspicion against me than against others.

[Tangrowth]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

But when I started commenting today, you literally told me to go away.

What? No, that's not what I meant. "Get out of here", like, really?

[Tangrowth]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

This addresses nothing I said and only admits guilt.

I hadn't addressed your post yet.

[thellama73]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

Why are you trying to "legitimize suspicions"? This is what I felt you were doing on Devin. Not spotting suspicious behavior and pointing it out, but rather justifying an existing desire to see him lynched, the motivations of which remain unknown.

[Tangrowth]

If you think my play makes me mafia or even neutral and you all just want to get rid of me, then whatever, I can't stop you from placing your votes however you like. But I can try my best.

[Tangrowth]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

Why are you trying to "legitimize suspicions"? This is what I felt you were doing on Devin. Not spotting suspicious behavior and pointing it out, but rather justifying an existing desire to see him lynched, the motivations of which remain unknown.

What? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's easier to legitimize a suspicion of someone who goes out of their way to commit to reads and opinions, i.e., high contributors.

Am I literally in a crazy opposite universe where no one understands what I'm actually saying?

Well, you're wrong.

[thellama73]

This is exactly the conundrum of high versus low contributors though: I've hardly had anything to call MM out on for most of the game, because he's refused to actually commit to any suspicions or opinions for most of the game. Meanwhile, those who actually go out of their way to form opinions are easier to legitimize suspicions of, because they're putting themselves out there by analyzing and forming opinions of content.

Why are you trying to "legitimize suspicions"? This is what I felt you were doing on Devin. Not spotting suspicious behavior and pointing it out, but rather justifying an existing desire to see him lynched, the motivations of which remain unknown.

What? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's easier to legitimize a suspicion of someone who goes out of their way to commit to reads and opinions, i.e., high contributors.

Am I literally in a crazy opposite universe where no one understands what I'm actually saying?

Well, you're wrong.

Why are you trying to legitimize suspicions?

[Tangrowth]

I'M NOT. Baddies can.

[thellama73]

I'M NOT. Baddies can.

Do you think MM was trying to legitimize his suspicion against you? It seemed to me he was doing the opposite.

[Tangrowth]

I'M NOT. Baddies can.

Do you think MM was trying to legitimize his suspicion against you? It seemed to me he was doing the opposite.

I don't know what he was doing.

[Marmot]

I'M NOT. Baddies can.

Do you think MM was trying to legitimize his suspicion against you? It seemed to me he was doing the opposite.

I don't know what he was doing.

Frankly, I don't either.