Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[Draconus]

Voting position 2.

Sorry bwt. I was wrong

[Ricochet]

My comment at Rico was because he had me totally convinced that we'd be lynching Ubbadubba. He pushed the case so hard and acted like he was certain about it, so I believed it, but it turned out he was wrong. I voted for BWT because of Rico's case. I blame Rico for the lynch.

I take responsability for my vote and my case. I never claimed I'm certain or that I have certain info on it (I didn't have any; it was all pure case-making), but I agree I saw plenty signs, therefore I made my case with conviction. I was utterly wrong and I regret it.

However, I didn't invite anyone to follow me blindly. In fact, I was very specific on D9, when I voted and the lynch went underway. You're basically admitting to wagoning. That's on you. Mafia requires majority in lynching, but not a blind one; nobody claims the role of pack leader, deciding who gets lynched next, and everyone else follows. To my mind, everyone has to explain why they think someone's case is worth following or, if not, they have to lynch the same suspect for their own reasons. You seem to be admitting to have done neither.

Also, please be so kind as to provide, perhaps with examples, where I "pushed the case hard". I made my case D8 and followed that with a vote D9, that was pretty much it. It's hearing stuff like "Rico set Synonym up" (from aapje) or "Rico pushed the case hard" (from you), without any backing up of the claims, that kinda upsets me the most. It can make for a perfect framing technique.

[Draconus]

Fwiw, I don't blame you, Rico. I voted for bird for my own reasons.

[bea]

Yea. I own my teefies vote. And my sync vote (as super lame as that one was on my part.)

Going with position 2. I'm not letting rock con punish me. I distrust their definition of mild.

[nutella]

I still take some responsibility for my vote, and I never said I didn't think your case was worth following. The problem was that it was. I partially blame you because I might never have thought to consider BWT had you not brought him up with such a compelling case. Once you did, along with what in my opinion looked like implications that you were certain (stating "BWT is Ubzargan" as if it were fact), I believed you, and decided to vote for who I thought would be a baddie. Sure, I "wagoned" in the sense that I latched onto someone else's case and became a proponent of it. I do that in pretty much every game I play. I did not "wagon" in the traditional sense, as my vote was the first. I don't deny that I voted with my own conviction. I'm just pointing out that I only had that conviction in the first place because of the way you painted your case.

[Scotty]

Voted 2.

Sorry I'm not around much today- I'm moving all day and into the night. I'll be on a plane late tonight. I will come back to post before the night ends!

[Ricochet]

I still take some responsibility for my vote, and I never said I didn't think your case was worth following. The problem was that it was. I partially blame you because I might never have thought to consider BWT had you not brought him up with such a compelling case. Once you did, along with what in my opinion looked like implications that you were certain (stating "BWT is Ubzargan" as if it were fact), I believed you, and decided to vote for who I thought would be a baddie. Sure, I "wagoned" in the sense that I latched onto someone else's case and became a proponent of it. I do that in pretty much every game I play. I did not "wagon" in the traditional sense, as my vote was the first. I don't deny that I voted with my own conviction. I'm just pointing out that I only had that conviction in the first place because of the way you painted your case.

Understood. Yes, for the case of BWT being bad becoming a topic and being brought to everyone's attention, I take full responsibility. But the pushing doesn't go past beyond the case-making I did.

"stating "BWT is Ubzargan" as if it were fact"

I think BWT is Uzbekistan.

No fact stating, no certainty implying.

As for you voting with "your own conviction", I've pointed out already that I don't find much of that in your quotes.

---

Voting 2.

[Ricochet]

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

[Marmot]

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

You've stated that you will take responsibility for your vote, but you won't accept mild consequences.

[Roxy]

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

You've stated that you will take responsibility for your vote, but you won't accept mild consequences.

Mild consequences? what consequences? I took responsibility for my vote so I am curious.

[Ricochet]

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

You've stated that you will take responsibility for your vote, but you won't accept mild consequences.

Huh?

[Marmot]

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

You've stated that you will take responsibility for your vote, but you won't accept mild consequences.

Mild consequences? what consequences? I took responsibility for my vote so I am curious.

Nobody can handle the consequences. I wonder why?

[Roxy]

Bc why would you go against host wishes? I do not get your fascination with trying to have mild consequences. Why do you want them?

[Ricochet]

I don't get his fascination with a single position, consequences or no consequences.

[Marmot]

Bc why would you go against host wishes? I do not get your fascination with trying to have mild consequences. Why do you want them?

I want to see what happens. I also like Position 5. I'm not opposed to the other positions though.

[DharmaHelper]

For reals tho, NK me.

[aapje]

Wtf checking in drunk but whatever. I think rico is straiht up bad, no rez recruit involved at all. I think he's full of shit and bad to the bone. I just wish more people would fillow mmmy vote.

I'll fillow the fuck out of you man.

You the fillower of my sails dide?

Damn you young fillower's!!

Maybe posting drunk wasn't the best idea

[Ricochet]

For reals tho, NK me.

Which one of the four with kills are you addressing? :P

[aapje]

Went over the thread since last night sober this time :P

Spoiler: show

I'm surprised nobody has called out Rico yet after the Synonym lynch. Did Synonym lie about missing all of his PMs or did Rico lie about missing his?
So Rico, what do you think has happened?

I haven't lied about missing my PM N5, Synonym could have still been wrong about missing his.

So what's there to be called for? You were the one who pushed this angle on suspecting Syn.

Also, I don't recall the Hosts confirming or clarifying things past this post of yours.

Well in that case let me refresh your memory:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Also Rico you are 100% sure you didn't send in a PM while you had a power that night?

This seems like a shit reason to suspect someone.

Eh, I think it looks like it could be a classic slip up. That being said if the hosts don't come back in time I will probably look at someone else for today.

I thought that was listed at the bottom of the night post

I hate to say this after being quiet (mostly) by choice for the last few days, but I'm headed out of town to Riot Fest in Chicago for the weekend and will certainly not be able to keep up with the thread. But I Looked over Rico's reads, and I'm startled by how good they seem to be. Will be checking in to vote BWT until the dude is dead.

This post set of some major alarm bells for me.

Not sure how I feel about BWT but I don't exactly trust Rico
In face I'll place my vote there.

Boomslang pings you like hell, but you vote me. Yup.

Also, are you still suspecting me for an event that in your mind looks suspicious, for reasons you know better, as well as for a response of mine to that event that did not live up to your standards...for reasons you know better? Yeah, still don't know what I'm supposed to argue/defend here.

Your reaction to your rez didn't add up for me and now it certainly looks like you could have set up Synonym to be lynched. Is this supposed to make me feel you are a civvie? Because it certainly doesn't look like you are. I'm comfortable with my vote for you

Ah. Indeed I seemed to have missed that.

Allow me to clarify though. While that indeed confirms your posts (and your question about how many PMs were missed N5), in a previous post to that (that is actually quoted in that post of yours) I asked for clarification on something slightly different:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Even you weren't sure about that, but then you asked the Hosts a different question:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Now you're holding me responsible for missing out a confirmation on a matter that is not mine, but yours? Com'on. My question wasn't confirmed.

I don't really how that is relevant since the hosts confirmed that there was in fact only 1 missing PM.

Again, I can't defend against an accusation based on your perception of things, that you hold on to. Carry on suspecting me, then. I'm still unrecruited, so should I get lynched or killed during this phase, I will have proven to you how rezz's don't always mean what you have in mind and nor do simple explanations of it ("I was rezzed. I don't know why the rezzer chose me. I'm still unrecruited") don't mean or hide something other than that.

I know sometimes people don't get rezzed for logical reasons. When did I use the word always? Usually people use rezzes for a reason though do though.

Moving on to Syn, you're claiming I set up Synonym to be lynched with a reasoning that belonged to you and that only you focused on in voting Synonym to be lynched? That's rich.

I answered your appeal towards players who might know if, by missing themselves PMs on that night, might prove that Syn is lying about missing his (although, mind you, he was very broad in saying he missed every deadline. It is, again, you, who narrowed it to N4-N5 when his claim might be faulty).

I narrowed it down to Night 4 and 5 because the hosts said only 1 pm was missing on those nights so those would be easiest to check.

I think I might pull the suspicions and votes on Synonym, so I can show you that the "missing PM" angle pretty much belonged to you, you only and you insisted upon, quite a lot in fact. Or better yet, maybe you'd be so kind as to point out how people voted Syn for the "PM angle", so that you can claim I set him up by addressing on that angle.

I didn't go with that. Furthermore, DH called it lazy suss'ing, after which you suddenly backed away from it, despite still believing it might have been a slip. So if nobody really voted Syn for his PM claim (aka your case), how can you claim I set him up to by lynched for that? I didn't set up Syn with anything, I suspected him for a lot of things, maybe apart from his last to final post, but the PM angle was not something I used, it's something you brought up and insisted upon.

Where have I said I'm a civvie? I never claimed that. I'm unrecruited. Are you after lynching unrecruits, just because they don't fit your 'civvie' category? Wouldn't you rather lynch recruited baddies?

I backed off because the hosts hadn't yet confirmed that there was only 1 missing pm. If I had been online after they had confirmed it my vote would have stayed on Synonym.

And it doesn't really matter to me whether people followed my line of inquiry or not. As a player I looks for inconsistencies, for stuff that doesn't add up. A lot of the times baddies can be found where stuff doesn't add up. And this PM business (quite literally) doesn't add up.

aapje, for a in-depth tactician and game debater, seems to have run out of bullets in pursuing me. I asked him to prove that I influenced anyone to lynch Syn for the PM angle (an angle only he brought up, furthermore) or that anyone voted Syn for that angle (not even he did) and he just came back with blank verdicts. His rezz angle on me suddenly doesn't even matter anymore, lol. Must have been after DH pointed out he did such bullsuit angles in the past as well. Can anyone else who played past Recruitements confirm that aapje was bad and used a rezzcruiting angle to dig a player's grave?

Anyway, given all this, I'm considering calling dingo on appje's endeavour. He thinks he's a soldier dog who found the heroin stash but nah, he's dead wrong and every angle of his will be proven dead wrong if I get lynched. But I'm starting to feel he might be a dingo, instead, putting the baby in my lap.

Wow this is quite the post. After you asked me that I've made one drunken post and then you call me out for not giving you a point by point reply? You seem to have unreasonably high standards for inebriated (not abbreviated, I've learned my lesson) posts. That post was a response to you and DH talking about rez-recruits which was never my main point. Which I so eloquently reiterated last night.

The fact that you were rezzed still very much matters. I think you were recruited before you were rezzed. I think you were rezzed because you were already recruited. Rezz-recruits was never the main point and I've stated that before as well.

Oh and I can confirm that I was bad in the previous recruitment mafia. I don't really remember talking about rezzes that game but it has been over a year. It sounds plausible that I did though. My belief that rezzes are usually done for a reason isn't exactly a new-found one.

[Ricochet]

Went over the thread since last night sober this time :P

Spoiler: show

I'm surprised nobody has called out Rico yet after the Synonym lynch. Did Synonym lie about missing all of his PMs or did Rico lie about missing his?
So Rico, what do you think has happened?

I haven't lied about missing my PM N5, Synonym could have still been wrong about missing his.

So what's there to be called for? You were the one who pushed this angle on suspecting Syn.

Also, I don't recall the Hosts confirming or clarifying things past this post of yours.

Well in that case let me refresh your memory:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Also Rico you are 100% sure you didn't send in a PM while you had a power that night?

This seems like a shit reason to suspect someone.

Eh, I think it looks like it could be a classic slip up. That being said if the hosts don't come back in time I will probably look at someone else for today.

I thought that was listed at the bottom of the night post

I hate to say this after being quiet (mostly) by choice for the last few days, but I'm headed out of town to Riot Fest in Chicago for the weekend and will certainly not be able to keep up with the thread. But I Looked over Rico's reads, and I'm startled by how good they seem to be. Will be checking in to vote BWT until the dude is dead.

This post set of some major alarm bells for me.

Not sure how I feel about BWT but I don't exactly trust Rico
In face I'll place my vote there.

Boomslang pings you like hell, but you vote me. Yup.

Also, are you still suspecting me for an event that in your mind looks suspicious, for reasons you know better, as well as for a response of mine to that event that did not live up to your standards...for reasons you know better? Yeah, still don't know what I'm supposed to argue/defend here.

Your reaction to your rez didn't add up for me and now it certainly looks like you could have set up Synonym to be lynched. Is this supposed to make me feel you are a civvie? Because it certainly doesn't look like you are. I'm comfortable with my vote for you

Ah. Indeed I seemed to have missed that.

Allow me to clarify though. While that indeed confirms your posts (and your question about how many PMs were missed N5), in a previous post to that (that is actually quoted in that post of yours) I asked for clarification on something slightly different:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Even you weren't sure about that, but then you asked the Hosts a different question:

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Now you're holding me responsible for missing out a confirmation on a matter that is not mine, but yours? Com'on. My question wasn't confirmed.

I don't really how that is relevant since the hosts confirmed that there was in fact only 1 missing PM.

Well then it's my PM. I didn't lie about it and Syn could have still been untruthful about it. Again, he was also very broad in his claim, so maybe didn't have in mind that N4-N5s could contradict his claim. You seem to be forcing the equation that since he flipped civ, everything he claimed must mean it was true.

Start a new line of questioning regarding my claim that I missed a PM on N5, if you feel like it. Then frame the next player as well, when I come clean if lynched.

Again, I can't defend against an accusation based on your perception of things, that you hold on to. Carry on suspecting me, then. I'm still unrecruited, so should I get lynched or killed during this phase, I will have proven to you how rezz's don't always mean what you have in mind and nor do simple explanations of it ("I was rezzed. I don't know why the rezzer chose me. I'm still unrecruited") don't mean or hide something other than that.

I know sometimes people don't get rezzed for logical reasons. When did I use the word always? Usually people use rezzes for a reason though do though.

You hold on to empirical evidence that my rezz can mean something more than just that. You obviously don't or won't believe it can be possible that my rezz is just that, hence what I said about proving to you how wrong you are in your disbelief, either by getting lynched or at endgame, when everything will be clarified. I'd prefer not to be lynched.

I think I might pull the suspicions and votes on Synonym, so I can show you that the "missing PM" angle pretty much belonged to you, you only and you insisted upon, quite a lot in fact. Or better yet, maybe you'd be so kind as to point out how people voted Syn for the "PM angle", so that you can claim I set him up by addressing on that angle.

I didn't go with that. Furthermore, DH called it lazy suss'ing, after which you suddenly backed away from it, despite still believing it might have been a slip. So if nobody really voted Syn for his PM claim (aka your case), how can you claim I set him up to by lynched for that? I didn't set up Syn with anything, I suspected him for a lot of things, maybe apart from his last to final post, but the PM angle was not something I used, it's something you brought up and insisted upon.

Where have I said I'm a civvie? I never claimed that. I'm unrecruited. Are you after lynching unrecruits, just because they don't fit your 'civvie' category? Wouldn't you rather lynch recruited baddies?

I backed off because the hosts hadn't yet confirmed that there was only 1 missing pm. If I had been online after they had confirmed it my vote would have stayed on Synonym.

And it doesn't really matter to me whether people followed my line of inquiry or not. As a player I looks for inconsistencies, for stuff that doesn't add up. A lot of the times baddies can be found where stuff doesn't add up. And this PM business (quite literally) doesn't add up.

You said I'm bad because I set Synonym up via the PM business. That would mean people followed me in lynching Synonym and in giving credit to the PM business. But they didn't and it wasn't my line of inquiry, it was yours.

Yes, you looked into Syn's PM business not adding up and thought a baddie can be found there; it wasn't found. Now you're trying to say the PM business doesn't add up about me and that a baddie can be found here. But what doesn't add up about me? Prove that Syn was truthful that he missed the N5 PM and that I lied.

aapje, for a in-depth tactician and game debater, seems to have run out of bullets in pursuing me. I asked him to prove that I influenced anyone to lynch Syn for the PM angle (an angle only he brought up, furthermore) or that anyone voted Syn for that angle (not even he did) and he just came back with blank verdicts. His rezz angle on me suddenly doesn't even matter anymore, lol. Must have been after DH pointed out he did such bullsuit angles in the past as well. Can anyone else who played past Recruitements confirm that aapje was bad and used a rezzcruiting angle to dig a player's grave?

Anyway, given all this, I'm considering calling dingo on appje's endeavour. He thinks he's a soldier dog who found the heroin stash but nah, he's dead wrong and every angle of his will be proven dead wrong if I get lynched. But I'm starting to feel he might be a dingo, instead, putting the baby in my lap.

Wow this is quite the post. After you asked me that I've made one drunken post and then you call me out for not giving you a point by point reply? You seem to have unreasonably high standards for inebriated (not abbreviated, I've learned my lesson) posts. That post was a response to you and DH talking about rez-recruits which was never my main point. Which I so eloquently reiterated last night.

Dude, you came in the thread and called me "straight up bad", discarded your earlier "rezz" suspicion altogether, called me "full of shit" and asked people to follow you in voting me. I'm sorry if it was all drunk talk, but we're still playing a game. You came hard like that on me, I'll come back just as hard.

What part of that, other than the "no rez recruit involved at all" part, was a simple "response to me and DH talking about rez-recruits"? I didn't pick on your inebriation at all, I picked on your hard claims. If you would have come with a post in any way lighter than that (say "rico's mcbaddie mcbaddison"), I wouldn't have set "unreasonably high standards". You set the standard yourself with you hard claims.

Not to mention that right now, you're still not providing any proof of your claim that I set up Syn's lynch. I can wait, no problem.

The fact that you were rezzed still very much matters. I think you were recruited before you were rezzed. I think you were rezzed because you were already recruited. Rezz-recruits was never the main point and I've stated that before as well.

No sir. You never once suspected me of being recruited (or bad), before I returned to the game. You spinned the rezz factor to start suspecting me, weaving in stuff like "why would anyone bring him back if he's not part of their team", "rezzcruiting could have happened" and "his reaction to his rezz is fishy" in your case-making.

Also I asked people to confirm that you used the "rezzrecruiting" angle in your previous game, I didn't imply "rezzrecruiting" was the only angle you used on me. I admit the "rezzrecruiting" part took more shape during the talks with DH, but I still was referencing that when I asked the question.

[birdwithteeth11]

Rezz plz

[aapje]

Only quoted a small part to keep it readable.

The fact that you were rezzed still very much matters. I think you were recruited before you were rezzed. I think you were rezzed because you were already recruited. Rezz-recruits was never the main point and I've stated that before as well.

No sir. You never once suspected me of being recruited (or bad), before I returned to the game. You spinned the rezz factor to start suspecting me, weaving in stuff like "why would anyone bring him back if he's not part of their team", "rezzcruiting could have happened" and "his reaction to his rezz is fishy" in your case-making.

I never claimed I suspected you before you were rezzed. The underlined part means that I think the reason you were rezzed is because you are on a team. The before is referring to the time of your recruitment, not the time of me suspecting you.

Yes, you looked into Syn's PM business not adding up and thought a baddie can be found there; it wasn't found. Now you're trying to say the PM business doesn't add up about me and that a baddie can be found here. But what doesn't add up about me? Prove that Syn was truthful that he missed the N5 PM and that I lied.

Both the rez and the PM claim don't directly prove anything. However I see it as circumstantial evidence that you could be bad. I'll look into the lying part but first I'm going to get some sleep.

[Spacedaisy]

I apologize for missing the vote yesterday. I was reading, keeping up and everything. Just for some reason I believed I had another day to poll end. I honestly don't know how I managed that.

[DharmaHelper]

I apologize for missing the vote yesterday. I was reading, keeping up and everything. Just for some reason I believed I had another day to poll end. I honestly don't know how I managed that.

[Spacedaisy]

Yes?

[Black Rock]

I would like to end the night earlier if everyone could get their PMs in that would be fantastic.

[Black Rock]

Public Announcement

Sorry I have not done this for awhile... but PUBLIC RECRUITMENT!!

There are limited numbers of neutrals left. All teams are recruiting. This will be the last recruitment for the baddie teams. Please send in opportunity to reach out to a team (or multiple) and convince them that you should be the recruit they choose. PM us what you would like to say. Civvie teams no longer are recruiting to BTSC just a fyi. You have until the end of day 10.

[LoRab]

Voted 2. I don't like consequences.

[Scotty]

I'm currently taxiing into the runway. It's been a. Long day.

Also I wil have plenty of time tomorrow to be a productive member of society once again. I got some people on my watch list.

[Long Con]

Legal Decisions

Deep within the Bureau of Law in New Paradis, the Supreme Judge worked hard in his office, but was getting deluged with new cases faster than he could process them.

"That's it!" he bellowed, slamming a gavel-like fist down on his polished oaken desk. "Execute Protocol 9765!"

An executive assistant responded immediately, sending the command through the appropriate channels, until it was received by the Bureau of Time, a division that was, for good reason, unknown to most of the general populace and government officials.

A wizened old man in thick spectacles perked up from his pocketwatch repair as a message machine began to spin a brass wheel, printing out a thin line of paper. He placed both hands on his desk and gently eased himself off his high stool, and shuffled over to read it.

"Restart the night?" His eyebrows raised considerably. "Can't remember the last time I had to do that!" He made his way over to a large brass handle, and pulled it down, setting off a chain of events that delved into the core of the realm.

Night has been restarted, and will end in 24 hours when the new Position Poll ends.

[Scotty]

ok supreme judge...ok...

[DharmaHelper]

GOD DAMNIT I JUST WANNA DIE ALREADY

[Turnip Head]

Guess someone wants us to twiddle our thumbs and contemplate our navels...

[Black Rock]

Public Announcement

Sorry I have not done this for awhile... but PUBLIC RECRUITMENT!!

There are limited numbers of neutrals left. All teams are recruiting. This will be the last recruitment for the baddie teams. Please send in opportunity to reach out to a team (or multiple) and convince them that you should be the recruit they choose. PM us what you would like to say. Civvie teams no longer are recruiting to BTSC just a fyi. You have until the end of day 10.

So, I am going to run this until the end of Night 9 part 2 instead.

[Marmot]

GOD DAMNIT I JUST WANNA DIE ALREADY

[Canucklehead]

GOD DAMNIT I JUST WANNA DIE ALREADY

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really rather if you quit than keep pouting about how much it's unfun for you to keep playing. I luff you, DH, and I think you know it, and I really wish you *were* having fun with this game...but that's my Real Talk for you today.

[LoRab]

@LC: Executive Assistant was truly brilliant word play.

And, night again? I don't know what to do with that. So I'm going to go finish writing a sermon for tomorrow, because I'm not sure my brain is capable of trying to think through both.

[DharmaHelper]

GOD DAMNIT I JUST WANNA DIE ALREADY

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really rather if you quit than keep pouting about how much it's unfun for you to keep playing. I luff you, DH, and I think you know it, and I really wish you *were* having fun with this game...but that's my Real Talk for you today.

I asked to be replaced 4 or 5 phases ago. Nobody to take me up on it. Trust me, I'm trying.

[Ricochet]

Carry on, then.

[Turnip Head]

I just assumed DH was using reverse psychology and pretending to be useless to stay alive.

[DharmaHelper]

I just assumed DH was using reverse psychology and pretending to be useless to stay alive.

That would be something.

[Ricochet]

[quote="Ricochet"]MM is still fixating on Position 5. [/quote]

[nutella]

Huh. I wonder what a night restart could accomplish. Will anyone change their night powers, or will everything be the same as it would have been just with a delay?

[bea]

I just assumed DH was using reverse psychology and pretending to be useless to stay alive.

Me too.

[Roxy]

Hrm is the judge recruited now? Wanting 2 nights does not feel very civvie.

Though I do wonder what the point of this power is if it only delays the powers used by 24 hours. Or would double targeting be in effect?

To confusing early in the morning.

I wish DH would stop talking about wanting to be dead. Its creepy and very unhelpful. If you are THAT miserable just quit already if not then buck up and help. figure shit out.

[Ricochet]

The only restart I ever witnessed happened after a Day concluded and results were shown - a mislynch - hence restarting the Day to correct that, but I'm not sure if Black Con would accept a Night restart after the conclusion (with results) of a Night phase. I've never seen a Night restart before, though.

I'm sorry if DH feels the genuine need to eject, but he's been bantering most of the game and I'm treating this stuff as banter just as well. Part of me also reads him claiming to be unkillable, but that doesn't add up considering the events and mechanics we know about.

[thellama73]

Hey guys, I'm really sorry I've been so absent lately. Been doing a lot of traveling and it's been hard to keep up. Responding to one or two things I saw I missed, I don't think Rico is bad (I know it's out of character for me, but bear with me :P ) I don't think DH is bad. I do have a new suspect, though, and he happens to be a Marmot. I don't trust that Marmot one bit. More later when I have time.

I voted position 2.

[Scotty]

Dejavu Night aside, this game has gone on for quite some time. It will have been a month come Friday, and not even half of us have died!

DH, do you really want to die, or do you really want to not die? You couldn't be more ambiguous if you wore trousers, a bowl cut and your name was Pat.

As far as Rico is concerned, I've been cautiously optimistic, but his rez is a definite cause for concern, because why else would he be rezz'd unless he was on someone's team? And someone like Rico, who has fooled me once *QUITE HANDILY MIGHT I ADD* in Watchmen, I would be naive to assume he would be in the civ camp. So he's got my big fat going into Day tomorrow (should I be alive)

I agree that the Judge does not seem very civ-like. Ignoring TH's potential argument again of just using a power for the sake of using a power, the only reason I can see for doing so is if the Judge was busy today and wanted another day to catch up. (Llama, is that you?)

I'm also looking more through Wilgy's and Syn's interactions to see if I can draw any better conclusions, since they are our main civ reference point.

[thellama73]

I agree that the Judge does not seem very civ-like. Ignoring TH's potential argument again of just using a power for the sake of using a power, the only reason I can see for doing so is if the Judge was busy today and wanted another day to catch up. (Llama, is that you?)

Nope, not me.

Let me explain my suspicion of Metalmarsh89. He has felt off for me for a while, but I couldn't put my finger on it until today. His entire game has seemed to me to be based on trying to survive above all else. He has been careful to be cheerful, friendly, and not to make any enemies. His suspicions have been mild and distinctly non-combative. He has said nice things to virtually everyone and tried to generally be a pleasant person to have around in the game.

Now, I know that Metalmarsh is in real life, an extremely pleasant person, and a recall well the discussion he had with MP about trying to vary his game style after a string of early deaths, but this all feels very calculated to me. I know the way I play, and what MM has been doing reminds me of my own baddie game. When you have a team to support, you are more careful than when it's just you. It wouldn't surprise me if MM is one of the original recruiters, since this has been his style from the beginning. Of course, it's possible that he is doing it solely for the reasons he claims, but it feels phony to me, and I don't trust it.

[Ricochet]

As far as Rico is concerned, I've been cautiously optimistic, but his rez is a definite cause for concern, because why else would he be rezz'd unless he was on someone's team? And someone like Rico, who has fooled me once *QUITE HANDILY MIGHT I ADD* in Watchmen, I would be naive to assume he would be in the civ camp. So he's got my big fat going into Day tomorrow (should I be alive)

Quite the change of heart there from

In RE: Rico rezzing, I think it is supes suspicious, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Elder Shaman was recruited. Whether or not that role is civ or bad is yet to be determined. I don't notice a shift in what Rico is saying now in relation to before he died. He actually reads genuine to me, which has me scratching my head if he really is unrecruited what the rezzer had in mind.

to big fat eyeballing.

Again, if anyone feels there's no way a rezz could have happened in lack of any affiliation between the rezzer and the rezz'd, you and aapje and anyone else reading it that will have a big surprise at the end of all this (whether I'm lynched or at endgame). On the bright side, you'll have this result as future reference that not all meta is one-dimensional.

I don't have what to defend when people rely on such empirical meta or rhetorical questions. I've said all I know about my rezz and status and I am truthful about it. Not trusting that is fine and natural for the gameplay. But from there on, players should use the proper tools to determine that I'm lying or that I'm bad. Determine if I've been recruited before the rezz. Determine the Shaman is bad-aligned. Determine if I've been recruited by the baddies.

As for the fooling, yes, I am aware that my meta will probably come to bite me back and compromise at least a few of my games purely because players will bring the "wait a minute. what if Rico is fooling us again" argument as soon as I'll keep progressing deep into a game and have little suspicion on me (which frankly isn't exactly the case here; I've had LoRab drumming on me for six Days now and aapje for roughly two; I wasn't sussed in Watchmen at all, except for "what ifs"). You want to test that and ruin my current game, because of retribution? Can't stop you there, but that'll be the outcome this time around.

I've been handed out more mafia/indy roles than civ so far and I've only won as mafia/indy thus far, so yeah, sucky legacy whenever I have to play civ for realz, what can I say. But that's just reality, there's nothing I can do about that. The thing is, the "civviest" I've been under a facade is also the "civviest" I can be, period. I can't play "civvier" than that. I can't push myself beyond this much baddie hunting and reading.

As for right now, I'll say it again, my status is that of an unrecruited, which means I have to survive the game, but I don't need to fool any side for any purpose. My mindset is that I desire to be recruited by the civs, to shed a survivor win con which I'm not optimistic one bit I'll achieve, and in that I'm baddie hunting. I believe I've proven the latter, even though I've had a huge failure recently. Team Azura killed me and I've been attacking Uzbekistan head on. How can that inspire any real belief that I'm involved with either?