[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Strawhenge]

Metalmarsh89
JaggedJimmyJay
espers
sig
fingersplints
Ricochet

Spoiler: show

What's your beef Strawhenge? You wanna take this outside?

INSIDE'S FINE

Okay, so maybe everyone else other than Marsh was included on that list to goad reaction, but I should've known better than to do that with you. Since your reaction to such things is always like, 'Oh, I see you seem to suspect me. Do tell me why. I can wait.'

In my wicked tiredness (I'm creeping up on waking hour #36!), I can't seem to recall a RoguedJimmyJay and how RJJ would have played. Since rogues/SKs are independent, thereby defaulting to targeting everyone and anyone in the game, it seems like the perfect anti-town role for you. You question everybody about everything, you leave no one behind, you give no one a pass. Not even yourself. Ionno. Gut feeling: RJJ would hypothetically be indistinguishable from JJJ.

Please note: I haven't any evidence (yet) of such behavior. It's just when I saw Psycho Killer appear twice on the EON post, I starting thinking specifically about who the rogue could be instead of just thinking about who anti-town could be. And your name flashed into my bedraggled brain like a camera flash.

Linkis: Jesus Christ, 90 people, why don't you all post at once, dang.

Linki: make that 91

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Matt, did you have any inkling that Mac might be the SK before the reveal of the most recent night kills? Just yes or no please.

[Strawhenge]

But no seriously can we talk about Metalmarsh. His demeanor in this game has been very distanced and, largely, off-topic. Or very lightly on-topic.

[Strawhenge]

Wait, can I even win this game?

Quoting this again for sirengiffy language.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In my wicked tiredness (I'm creeping up on waking hour #36!), I can't seem to recall a RoguedJimmyJay and how RJJ would have played. Since rogues/SKs are independent, thereby defaulting to targeting everyone and anyone in the game, it seems like the perfect anti-town role for you. You question everybody about everything, you leave no one behind, you give no one a pass. Not even yourself. Ionno. Gut feeling: RJJ would hypothetically be indistinguishable from JJJ.

To be honest, rogue roles are the worst for me because of my style. The way I play literally begs for night kills, I basically spend the whole game good cop/bad copping the bad guys and they eventually kill me without fail, even if it takes a while sometimes.

As a rogue that has to survive to end game I'd be screwed.

[Matt]

Night peeps!

Remember, if you do want to lynch me, I totally get it. I get lynched for my theories sometimes, it's part of the game.

However, if that's the route ya all decide to take, I really hope you don't let MacD fool you for much longer afterwards.

Anywho, we still have a day and a half. I'm finally sleeping now.

Linki - 3J - No, I had no idea. And I could still be wrong. But considering it is a continuation of Sorsha's power on NIGHT 3, and considering Mac's reaction to "Nice job" (suddenly i'm a civvie in his eyes), and considering his poster which leads me to believe he was performing a job, and considering his OFF THE WALL reaction to my "shit" theory...

I think it's possible.

Night peeps, see ya all tomorrow

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no interest in lynching Matt F. I am inclined to think he is incorrect about Mac, but I don't think he has malicious intent.

[MacDougall]

Goodnight MattF, I hope your recurring nightmares of killer clowns at child theme parks don't occur this evening...

Anyway onto actual stuff..

My Epi case just got a lot stronger. Take a look at how much shit FZ was slinging at Epignosis... Then winds up dead at the hands of the Psycho Killer.

Oh no, FZ is in Serious Business mode. I don't know why you treat me so bad. Think of all the things we could have had.

I am not bothered with how I appear in this game, either. Not one bit. I made a statement to the other players, back in the private Syndicate thread, but it's now vanished. It's not my fault you joined the RYM camp and now you seem to be lashing at me for not seeming as consistent as you'd expect like me to be, just because you have such meta on me from previous games.

Anyway, what I said over there can summed like this: I'm immersing in the theme. Incidentally, the Host happened to also issue a contest that totally justifies my plan to have fun and be zany. TH is fun and zany music, so I plan to have fun and be zany. This will not affect my regular gameplay, only add a dimension to it. As for my regular gameplay, I repeat that you may pretend too much from me, 10 hours into Day 1. You're saying I'm talking a lot, without saying anything, but you're accusing me without bringing too much just as well. If you're clinging on the my post on b24, I literally pointed out that I actually questioned him. If my replies haven't satisfied you, it's you shutting the door, not me.

Don't like fun? Lo siento. Take it easy, take it easy.

I don't have a meta on you from other games. It was just my observation of this game. As for the questioning you claim you did, that wasn't my interpretation of what you did, but okay, I'm backing off a little to make sure I'm not having a tunnel vision.


On to someone else, quiet Epi is never a good thing...

Please read the entirety of page two of FZ's ISO. Please.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 1&start=40

Like, it's crazy. Epi is the only person who fails the rogue talking about their own role test. Had FZ at his throat. FZ dies by hand of rogue.

If we're lynching a serial killer candidate, he's your dude. He is so so likely. I have him at like 8.5/10 on the likely to be SK radar lol.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is some merit to the notion that rogues habitually talk about rogues more than anyone else, I've definitely seen that turn out valid before. I'm also surprised Epi was giving Matt's theory a chance despite the apparent strong evidence that it doesn't work. I'm considering it, Mac.

[Strawhenge]

The way I play literally begs for night kills,

This is true, however such begging is often not requited. TNG was the only game in recent history to feature an early death for you. There have been SupertownJay games where I've worried each night phase that you would get killed, but you're there until the end. Or at least a very late phase. E.g. #84: Peanuts.

[Strawhenge]

But meeehehhhhhhhh semantics that don't really make sense / matter. What say you of MM, JJJ, svp?

[MacDougall]

There is some merit to the notion that rogues habitually talk about rogues more than anyone else, I've definitely seen that turn out valid before. I'm also surprised Epi was giving Matt's theory a chance despite the apparent strong evidence that it doesn't work. I'm considering it, Mac.

James, read page 2 of FZ's ISO. Start at the bottom. Tell me if you were Epi and you were a serial killer who you would have killed that night?

Didn't think twice to question Matt's case.

Talked about the serial killer role more than anyone else.

Dude's the serial killer. Signed sealed delivered.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But meeehehhhhhhhh semantics that don't really make sense / matter. What say you of MM, JJJ, svp?

I think much of his "I deserve to be lynched" content was forced by the hosts as punishment for missing a vote. Otherwise I think he has been less involved than I'd like. I don't think it's entirely unlike him though to goof around a little bit and spam freely. If I rainbowed he'd be a light shade of orange.

[Bullzeye]

I have no interest in lynching Matt F. I am inclined to think he is incorrect about Mac, but I don't think he has malicious intent.

Same. Matt practically always comes out with the most ridiculous conspiracies and follows them until his dying breath, but it doesn't make him bad. If anything I think he does it more when he's a civ.

[Strawhenge]

Mac, at what point did you switch from thinking MattF foolish to thinking he was the rogue?

Or were those feelings concurrent?

Linki JJJ: The goofspam stuff I can understand. I mean, we played with Dyson. But when he actually says game-related things he doesn't really say anything. Makes effort not to. Is that part of his meta too? It makes me uncomf as b.

[Roxy]

If anyone votes for macD using MF's half case they will be thought bad by me - not that that means anything to anyof you.

Its ridiculous to claim a power ability extending after death. I have had many contests and abilities in the many games I have hostedand when. the player dies I do not give them their results after death even though they used their power while alive.
MF IGNORES THIS POINT.

He is only able to show that possibly Sorsha targeted MacD and he was in a game or contest but refuses to look for his competitor ergo building a half case telling me I should finish his case for him.
MF IGNORES THIS.

MF uses the word job and Macd quotes it ergo making him bad the silliest part of his case.
MF PUSHES THIS THE MOST.

There you go mf something else for you to ignore.

[MacDougall]

Mac, at what point did you switch from thinking MattF foolish to thinking he was the rogue?

Or were those feelings concurrent?

[Strawhenge]

Wait, didn't Sorsha suspect Mac at some point? Am I insane?

If she suspected him, why would she give him a job that would yield two night-actions if she suspected him?

Or am I totally misremembering that?

linki: ...what

[MacDougall]

Wait, didn't Sorsha suspect Mac at some point? Am I insane?

If she suspected him, why would she give him a job that would yield two night-actions if she suspected him?

Or am I totally misremembering that?

linki: ...what

I have made an extremely solid case on epignosis being rogue. I very very briefly insinuated that Matt might be the rogue by virtue of tunneling me and accusing me of being a rogue but I looked at other things after that, like three pages ago.

Catch up and then post.

[MacDougall]

I will also note that ever since I asked sorsha to not view this thread while signed in she hasn't been sighted hahahaha.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is some merit to the notion that rogues habitually talk about rogues more than anyone else, I've definitely seen that turn out valid before. I'm also surprised Epi was giving Matt's theory a chance despite the apparent strong evidence that it doesn't work. I'm considering it, Mac.

James, read page 2 of FZ's ISO. Start at the bottom. Tell me if you were Epi and you were a serial killer who you would have killed that night?

Didn't think twice to question Matt's case.

Talked about the serial killer role more than anyone else.

Dude's the serial killer. Signed sealed delivered.

Yellow: I can certainly see a SK Epi killing FZ, but I am hesitant to consider that damning evidence. This is the kind of detail that might appear to mean more than it really does when tunnel vision takes over. I'm considering it, but there's enough WIFOM that I am going to be careful.

Orange: I've accused rogues of this correctly before, so I understand your perspective. I've also accused non-rogues of this wrongly.

Green: I don't share your certainty. It's an intriguing possibility. I am also loathe to lynch someone purely based on rogue speculation, because there is only one rogue and that means the chances of correctness are inherently lessened. There are still a ton of people alive. Proceeding with lynch would demand a significant degree of confidence. I need more time and probably more evidence to get there.

[MacDougall]

Did you consider my point that if we don't kill the rogue today we could be looking at three townies dead tonight?

[MacDougall]

Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One observation FZ made that I think is of special interest was when she noted Epi was not being confrontational. He is known around here for really taking his suspects to task, sometimes to the point of absurdity, and that hasn't happened here. There's potential that his restrained approach has been motivated by his understanding that rattling cages would work directly against the SK win condition.

[Strawhenge]

Wait, didn't Sorsha suspect Mac at some point? Am I insane?

If she suspected him, why would she give him a job that would yield two night-actions if she suspected him?

Or am I totally misremembering that?

linki: ...what

I have made an extremely solid case on epignosis being rogue. I very very briefly insinuated that Matt might be the rogue by virtue of tunneling me and accusing me of being a rogue but I looked at other things after that, like three pages ago.

Catch up and then post.

I'm not the smartest right now. 36 hours, Mac. 36 hours.

I saw your post about Epi (and yes it's compelling), but then I misread the 'Dude's the serial killer' part of this post as being about Matt. When really it's wert Epi. My bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did you consider my point that if we don't kill the rogue today we could be looking at three townies dead tonight?

It's possible. I think the rogue would be working against themselves to focus solely on slaughtering townies when so many mafia are still alive, but it's possible.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If anyone votes for macD using MF's half case they will be thought bad by me - not that that means anything to anyof you.

Roxy, who else do you suspect beyond Matt F?

[MacDougall]

That's a good point actually. If we have a thoughtful killer they might not necessarily target Girlfriend is Better again tonight.

[Bullzeye]

Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?

He's usually a lot more aggressive. However he did just get killed night one in Recruitment (by accident as well) so he might have been deliberately trying to be more restrained just to avoid his sucky curse of always dying straight away for lame reasons.

Also, I was meaning to say earlier, I think there's good reason to believe that the SK targeted Golden's seductee and that that's why there were two kills shown. In this game there has been a lot of discussion as to whether or not SK's are actually just misunderstood, civ-friendly softies who love cuddles and would never harm a fly unless it was evil. Killing the basically outed civ removes any doubt that the SK is not civ-friendly. I don't think they'd choose to do that so early on. I think they killed someone else, and that someone was Golden's seduced friend. Then MP wrote the night post to reflect that the SK had both failed to kill one person and also killed Golden. I think that's a far more realistic option.

[MacDougall]

How would Golden have been killed in that case?

[Bullzeye]

How would Golden have been killed in that case?

Because people Golden has seduced take all night actions targeted at him, and vice versa. So a kill directed at the person he seduced would be bounced off and hit Golden.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

SK targets Golden's seductee and that target is thus redirected to Golden himself. This means the "???? was not killed by Psycho Killer" did not reflect a second kill attempt, but rather a redirection of the only kill attempt.

Possible. That's not how I'd reveal the kills, but TS is weird so I dunno. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll be back later.

[MacDougall]

I think it's probably slightly more likely that there was a literal doubled serial killer attempt and one failed, but I suppose both are possible.

[Bullzeye]

SK targets Golden's seductee and that target is thus redirected to Golden himself. This means the "???? was not killed by Psycho Killer" did not reflect a second kill attempt, but rather a redirection of the only kill attempt.

Possible. That's not how I'd reveal the kills, but TS is weird so I dunno. :P

This theory is still a bit of a stretch because I don't know why MP would mention the redirected kill. I just don't think it's as much of a stretch as Matt's theory.

[Ricochet]

Big multiple-topic post. I'm mad... and that's a fact

It's not... yesterday...anymore.

---

rundontwalk has been modkilled for inactivity. He was Road to Nowhere.

Bye RDW. Bad civ role loss, dammit. I was hoping at least one of the mafioso would be a slacker worth modkilling.

Night 4 has ended.

Golden has been killed by Psycho Killer.
????? has survived a kill attempt by Psycho Killer.

RIP Golden.

Hosts: Would you announce if the mafia failed to kill anyone? Would you announce if the mafia performed no kill attempt?

I get Psycho Killer is the main topic so far, but why isn't anyone talking about the fact that there was no mafia kill? Or that perhaps the mafia took a break? Coincidentally, at the same time when Psycho Killer got to use his kill twice?! I'm seeing nothing in the mafia's roles to explain their failure or abstinence, apart from No Compassion's secrets. Or is it perhaps Psycho Killer who is secretly able to snatch their kill, one-time or so at least (yeah, I know, I'll get to the theories revolving PK as well, just writing this thought down...)?

---

RUSSTIFINKO

Also, Russtifinko eyed Long Con for waffling early on Day 2, but was still the last player to vote on his lynch, at a point when Long Con was up 7-4. Russtifinko never commented on any of the other Long Con suspicions. The suspicion looks forced.

What about the theory that, since LC obviously voted B24 with triple effect to give himself a fighting chance, Russ bussing him prior to this and reducing his fighting odds would make Russ a very unlikely teammate?

---

Choutas
Since he deserves to die almost as much as I do for being a horribly person who didn't take the few insignificant moments to vote, Choutas deserves to die almost as much as I do so just go and die Choutas.

Plus I have a feeling he might be the SK why else would he try to stop us from discussing it? Right know the SK is going after high profile civs we've got to focus some attention on him as well imo, but I deserve to die so am I really worth listening to? Please review Choutas posts there is just something off about them

The notion that the SK would be blatanty upset that he's being brought up sounds like a stretch to me, but otherwise I still suspect Choutas. You've asked others for a review on him, but I don't remember any suspicion of yours except this SK-talk dissension (you've also wildly misspelled his name several times, making it hard to trace mentions, nonetheless...). I hope, therefore, you'll elaborate yourself.

---

Several thoughts Matt's theory

1) My literal interpretation of Sorsha's role is that she nominates two players during Night x, the players have Day y to perform and Sorsha would pick the winner on Night y.

2) If Sorsha wouldn't have lynched before Night 4, this theory would have been spotless, because Sorsha would have been allowed to pick her winner early on during the Night, the challenged players would have to send their powers twice and the result would reflect that the SK was a winner of Sorsha's Day 4 challenge. Unfortunately, Sorsha's death makes this all implausible, at least on paper.

3) I have to say, though, that MP's ambiguous reply to clarifying if Sorsha was able to pick a winner post-mortem is pretty irritating. Why reply like that, if the literal interpretation is that she couldn't. If she was allowed to pick the winner during Day 4, then the role (description) is by virtue broken. If the two players would have to send their night powers twice regardless if their judge happened to die, then it still doesn't make sense from the role description: who decided the winner, if not Sorsha?!

Given MP's ambiguous reply, something about this is either:
a) not even beginning to make sense, let alone stop making sense
b) someone else's doing. A mirror player? A power absorber? Even so, how could Sorsha die D4 and her mirror/absorber decide the outcome on N4?

4) I've spotted Mac's alleged "challenge" initiative, if it's really that and not just banter posting, but I haven't spotted anything similar. Matt, can you hint at the "loser" in this D4 "challenge". If I don't see two players fighting for accomplishing a challenge, how can I easily trust that Mac's picture is a "challenge" initiative.

5) Matt is also very quick to declare that Mac's picture, if part of a "challenge", must be the winner. How come? Simply because it's so impressive? I cannot reference yet any specific details about it (because it's outside this thread, game, altogether, and it's not quite concluded), but from my experience, you can easily bust your ass all Day trying to win over the Judge's affection only for him to award a lesser player who just happened to crack a good joke or something like that. Unless you have any further clues on this, I'm not sure Mac winning anything is a confirmed case.

6) This post, on the other hand, is pretty interesting. Matt's clairvoyance is a bit iffy, but he did say he figured it might be a Found a Job challenge. However, Mac easing up because he might have believed that Matt is Found a Job doesn't automatically mean that he eased up because of being a baddie. Matt's contriving this a little, considering that Mac could have been simply swayed not to suspect Matt so much anymore, believing he might be Found a Job in cheeky self-referential mode. It is also because of Matt's lock on Mac as an SK right now that Matt is making the equation: "Mac backslided + I think Mac is SK = Mac is SK!" Wat.

7)

Maybe we should check Day 4 and see if anyone else made any type of poster type comments.

As for who the competition was, I dunno, but they definitely did not win the Day 4 challenge.

But yeah we should check out who else made meme/poster type posts on Day 4.

So you have no idea?

8) Seriously Matt, where is the "second recipient"?! It takes two to tango.

9)

Yeah, not sure, but let's lynch Mac and see if I'm wrong.

---

The Day is 5 the time is 10:26 EST
Attempt 1: I tried to leave the house to be bitten by a rattlesnake I know the the snake will know I deserve to die. The front door is locked and the parents won't let me out so I went to my room built a rope using my boy scout skills out of my bed sheets and grappled out the window, down the wall in an attempt to find a rattlesnake. I've safely gotten out the window without falling to my death or my "rope" breaking looks like Boy scouts did teach me something and will begin my search for a rattlesnake in the concrete jungle of Philadelphia after this post. Hopefully it will realize I deserve to die then using it's magic snake powers like in Jungle Book convince y'all to vote for me.

What the hell are these posts? You were already punished to desire death. I'm not seeing any second challenger in the roles. Unless the power absorber really exists. It can't be the Mafia, because Sorsha was lynched.

---

Why is the serial killer a priority? It's a Mafia team of seven total.

In a perfect world where we know exactly who the SK is we should lynch that player over Mafia. By lynching the SK we remove one kill per night, by lynching a Mafia, assuming that's the last member, we remove one kill every other night. While it isn't necessarily feasible to isolate SK behavior from town or Mafia behavior, lynching the SK would reward us more than lynching a Mafia.

Uh no, the night kills will probably be inherited by the other bad party.

Why is the serial killer a priority? It's a Mafia team of seven total.

In a perfect world where we know exactly who the SK is we should lynch that player over Mafia. By lynching the SK we remove one kill per night, by lynching a Mafia, assuming that's the last member, we remove one kill every other night. While it isn't necessarily feasible to isolate SK behavior from town or Mafia behavior, lynching the SK would reward us more than lynching a Mafia.

I don't agree.

As a game designer, I can tell you that a serial killer is a bigger threat to the mafia because he can remove them without consensus.

You include a serial killer to make it harder for Mafia to win.

Compare a serial killer (which sounds nasty) to a civilian ninja (which sounds nice).

They literally have the same power.

This stance is hilarious, considering that the SK literally killed the outed civilian. Not the Mafia. The S freaking K.

Also hilarious is that you mention the SK can remove Mafia, but not that Mafia could remove SK. It's probably bias, since you happened to design the SK/LMS as un(night)killable a few times, but still... If the Mafia would be able to kill the SK, would that be a sign of lesser threat towards us? From the Mafia? Please.

Back to the SK having killed an outed civ, such clean-up is in no way a synonymous mentality with him "removing mafia without consensus". If he's out to clean up outed civilians (which is the Mafia's job!), it means he's doing very little at the moment to help us civilians with our mafia issues.

Furthermore, if this were a standard Syndicate game, where civilians would also have to survive to win, then the SK would be just as much an enemy for the civs as the Mafia is.

While this urgency is not quite the same in this Dead-or-Alive format, it can still be translated as civilians wanting to survive as much as possible, to perform their activity and help the civ cause, based on which the SK is still just as much an enemy to this cause as the Mafia.

The SK is an enemy for the civs. He needs to be lynched.

---

Rico, can you give me a spoilered list of baddies if bcornett flips bad?

I saw JJJ doing this, but I'm not familiar with this technique. Anyway, I might later, but right now it's too much projection work.

---

Is MM hinting at something, in his exchange with Wilgy?

---

Hosts: Does the order of kills matter in a Host Post announcement?

---

Where has Ricochet run off to, I wonder?

Nowhere?

---

Anyway, I don't know why he was assumed to be "Uh Oh, Spaghettios", but maybe you can point to something in the thread?

If you're baddie, this is weak ignorance feigning.

If you're the SK, it's even worse, lol.

---



---

Metalmarsh89
Ricochet

Search "Rico is scum" in Strawhenge's posts.

No results.



---

Several thoughts Mac's theories - and Mac himself

1) Is Mac known to flip out when in danger of being lynched as baddie? Is Mac known to flip out when in danger of being mislynched? (Sort of like me, but without calling everyone idiots). Give me some fetta metta on this, RYM bros. For one thing, I spotted him pulling the idiots insult right off the bat on D5. I get the possible frustration, but that's intense nonetheless.

2) No, the Mafia can't be the SK or viceversa. Jesus Christ. We can only talk of night kill inheritance, in case one of those factions is eliminated.

3) No!

4) Girlfriend is Better / This Must Be the Place theory, unfortunately, doesn't quite gel perfectly either, because Girlfriend's role doesn't imply that he/she won't get killed, if targeted with a kill, plus if Girlfriend was protected by third party - aka the target failed - why would the kill bounce off to Golden, simply because Girlfriend was targeted? Why would a failed kill on Girlfriend be successful on the redirect player?

5) Mac's shout for this Day to be dedicated to the SK hunt solely is just... seriously now...

This requires another Host shout-out:

HOSTS: Does Girlfriend's redirect activate simply when Girlfriend is targeted or does the targetting need to be successful as well, in order for the redirect to function / work / be successful?

---

Floyd continues on the WTF path.

---

I missed why B24 is focusing on Devin? Is he still in reads/catch-up mode?

---

Roxy has now voted Matt five Days in a row.

---

Are we going to ignore the simple possibility that the ???? kill could've been whoever Golden had seduced? It's not like we aren't 100% certain of what his role was.

Uh-Oh's seduced would die in his place. When lynched.

---

OMFG, this catch-up is like I'm the tortoise and the thread is the hare. Mac do you ever sleep?!

I'm pulling the plug here. Talk about Epi being SK will have to wait until later

So far leaning on awarding Mac's theory with more credit than Matt's.

Or it's some third party shenanigan we need to figure out.

[MacDougall]

It's 11.10pm? I sleep starting about now for the next 8 hours or so.

[Ricochet]

Oh. I never noticed you are in a time zone closer to mine than the US of A.

[Bullzeye]

Hosts: Would you announce if the mafia failed to kill anyone? Would you announce if the mafia performed no kill attempt?

I get Psycho Killer is the main topic so far, but why isn't anyone talking about the fact that there was no mafia kill? Or that perhaps the mafia took a break? Coincidentally, at the same time when Psycho Killer got to use his kill twice?! I'm seeing nothing in the mafia's roles to explain their failure or abstinence, apart from No Compassion's secrets. Or is it perhaps Psycho Killer who is secretly able to snatch their kill, one-time or so at least (yeah, I know, I'll get to the theories revolving PK as well, just writing this thought down...)?

If you read the roles, it does say that the mafia only kill on odd nights... The civ ninja should've killed last night but apparently didn't.

Uh no, the night kills will probably be inherited by the other bad party.

Never heard of the mafia inheriting an SK's kill before.

This stance is hilarious, considering that the SK literally killed the outed civilian. Not the Mafia. The S freaking K.

...

Back to the SK having killed an outed civ, such clean-up is in no way a synonymous mentality with him "removing mafia without consensus". If he's out to clean up outed civilians (which is the Mafia's job!), it means he's doing very little at the moment to help us civilians with our mafia issues.

...

The SK is an enemy for the civs. He needs to be lynched.

I agree with you here, but it's also why I think the SK didn't mean to kill Golden.

Are we going to ignore the simple possibility that the ???? kill could've been whoever Golden had seduced? It's not like we aren't 100% certain of what his role was.

Uh-Oh's seduced would die in his place. When lynched.

And any night actions targeted at one will be redirected to the other. Night kills are night actions. It's the first word of both phrases.

[MacDougall]

What about this day being a rogue hunt isn't worthwhile?

It doesn't matter anyway... already found him.

[Ricochet]

What about this day being a rogue hunt isn't worthwhile?

It doesn't matter anyway... already found him.

There's still a mafia hunt to be done.

[MacDougall]

Right you are.

[Marmot]

Wait, can I even win this game?

Spoiler: show

Ya know what, fuggit, I'm voting Metalmarsh89 until he says some things with words.

According to the OP, not posting for 72 hours constitutes non-partcipation. Anyone considered a non-participant cannot win even if their faction wins.

It's possible if she could still pick a winner after her death, but, again, from the wording, I agree with you: I don't think she could pick a winner after death.

I'm just saying I don't think he's crazy.

linki: Mac, you don't have to prove you are creative. BAM, TALKING HEADS REFERENCE! WOO! FINALLY!

Why'd you vote for me? You're saying all the same things to Mac that I did.

Haven't put much thought into who the SK is tbh but if we have everyone on board tracking the SK this could be fun. You could trust almost all the scum hunting done since the Mafia won't actually need to bullshit about who they think is the SK! Can trust almost everything at face value.

Day 5 - Hunt for Psycho Killer.

Let's look at some ISO's and start with people who have mentioned the psycho killer role. Rogue's love talking about their role.

From there we can look at interractions with the people SK has killed.

That's a pretty mighty generalization. But still, good plan. I'll go ahead and add you to the top of the "talked about Psycho Kiler" list.

I don't know about MP, but where I'm from dead means dead. When you're dead there is nothing else, the game is over for you. I really struggle to imagine Sorsha picking a winner when she isn't actually alive.

Agreed. I believe this theory already has a major hole in it, one that makes it impossible.

Are we going to ignore the simple possibility that the ???? kill could've been whoever Golden had seduced? It's not like we aren't 100% certain of what his role was.

If that's the case, does it tell us anything?

Elohcin

Is this what I'm looking for?

Well that would explain why Matt didn't go looking for the SK, and was also convinced that he didn't win.

That still doesn't mean Mac won.

Metalmarsh89
JaggedJimmyJay
espers
sig
fingersplints
Ricochet

Spoiler: show

What's your beef Strawhenge? You wanna take this outside?

INSIDE'S FINE

Okay, so maybe everyone else other than Marsh was included on that list to goad reaction, but I should've known better than to do that with you. Since your reaction to such things is always like, 'Oh, I see you seem to suspect me. Do tell me why. I can wait.'

In my wicked tiredness (I'm creeping up on waking hour #36!), I can't seem to recall a RoguedJimmyJay and how RJJ would have played. Since rogues/SKs are independent, thereby defaulting to targeting everyone and anyone in the game, it seems like the perfect anti-town role for you. You question everybody about everything, you leave no one behind, you give no one a pass. Not even yourself. Ionno. Gut feeling: RJJ would hypothetically be indistinguishable from JJJ.

Please note: I haven't any evidence (yet) of such behavior. It's just when I saw Psycho Killer appear twice on the EON post, I starting thinking specifically about who the rogue could be instead of just thinking about who anti-town could be. And your name flashed into my bedraggled brain like a camera flash.

Linkis: Jesus Christ, 90 people, why don't you all post at once, dang.

Linki: make that 91

Why was I on your list again?

[Marmot]

Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?

Epignosis is would be shaded indigo on my rainbow list.

[Ricochet]

Hosts: Would you announce if the mafia failed to kill anyone? Would you announce if the mafia performed no kill attempt?

I get Psycho Killer is the main topic so far, but why isn't anyone talking about the fact that there was no mafia kill? Or that perhaps the mafia took a break? Coincidentally, at the same time when Psycho Killer got to use his kill twice?! I'm seeing nothing in the mafia's roles to explain their failure or abstinence, apart from No Compassion's secrets. Or is it perhaps Psycho Killer who is secretly able to snatch their kill, one-time or so at least (yeah, I know, I'll get to the theories revolving PK as well, just writing this thought down...)?

If you read the roles, it does say that the mafia only kill on odd nights... The civ ninja should've killed last night but apparently didn't.

The Night 2 skip messed with my brain. You're right, I forgot about that.

This stance is hilarious, considering that the SK literally killed the outed civilian. Not the Mafia. The S freaking K.

...

Back to the SK having killed an outed civ, such clean-up is in no way a synonymous mentality with him "removing mafia without consensus". If he's out to clean up outed civilians (which is the Mafia's job!), it means he's doing very little at the moment to help us civilians with our mafia issues.

...

The SK is an enemy for the civs. He needs to be lynched.

I agree with you here, but it's also why I think the SK didn't mean to kill Golden.

Needs to be confirmed (or at least we get close to a Girlfriend/Place theory validation).

Are we going to ignore the simple possibility that the ???? kill could've been whoever Golden had seduced? It's not like we aren't 100% certain of what his role was.

Uh-Oh's seduced would die in his place. When lynched.

And any night actions targeted at one will be redirected to the other. Night kills are night actions. It's the first word of both phrases.

Yes, if Golden was targeted, it'd go to ????. Golden wouldn't die. He'd not even be a kill target anymore, ???? would.

Alternatively, if ???? was the seduced and targeted, it'd go to Golden. ???? would not be a kill target anymore, Golden would. So it couldn't be a failed kill attempt on ???? anymore.

[Bullzeye]

Yes, if Golden was targeted, it'd go to ????. Golden wouldn't die. He'd not even be a kill target anymore, ???? would.

Alternatively, if ???? was the seduced and targeted, it'd go to Golden. ???? would not be a kill target anymore, Golden would. So it couldn't be a failed kill attempt on ???? anymore.

You'll note that I've questioned why the redirected kill would even be mentioned myself and have said it's the only hole in the theory. Still, it's a better one than Matt's as it has actual grounding in logic. I don't think it's really that important anyway tbh.

[Marmot]

RUSSTIFINKO

Also, Russtifinko eyed Long Con for waffling early on Day 2, but was still the last player to vote on his lynch, at a point when Long Con was up 7-4. Russtifinko never commented on any of the other Long Con suspicions. The suspicion looks forced.

What about the theory that, since LC obviously voted B24 with triple effect to give himself a fighting chance, Russ bussing him prior to this and reducing his fighting odds would make Russ a very unlikely teammate?

Good question.

Now it makes me wonder why Long Con was lynched when, as far as we know, bcornett led the lynch 9-8.

[Marmot]

Yes, if Golden was targeted, it'd go to ????. Golden wouldn't die. He'd not even be a kill target anymore, ???? would.

Alternatively, if ???? was the seduced and targeted, it'd go to Golden. ???? would not be a kill target anymore, Golden would. So it couldn't be a failed kill attempt on ???? anymore.

You'll note that I've questioned why the redirected kill would even be mentioned myself and have said it's the only hole in the theory. Still, it's a better one than Matt's as it has actual grounding in logic. I don't think it's really that important anyway tbh.

Matt's was logical. It just has a hole that makes it impossible, and Matt has yet to acknowledge this.

[Marmot]

Strawhenge!

I don't understand your vote for me, so OMGUS.

[Ricochet]

RUSSTIFINKO

Also, Russtifinko eyed Long Con for waffling early on Day 2, but was still the last player to vote on his lynch, at a point when Long Con was up 7-4. Russtifinko never commented on any of the other Long Con suspicions. The suspicion looks forced.

What about the theory that, since LC obviously voted B24 with triple effect to give himself a fighting chance, Russ bussing him prior to this and reducing his fighting odds would make Russ a very unlikely teammate?

Good question.

Now it makes me wonder why Long Con was lynched when, as far as we know, bcornett led the lynch 9-8.

5 + (1 x 3) =/= 9