[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

I know you didn't say it. But "I noticed that too" is suggestive you "picked up on" something as opposed to merely observing it in broad daylight. One does not "notice" the sun.

Semantics. When a player (Epi) brought this up, my reply simply meant that I saw it as well.

However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly. We've both also supplied a ton of reasons for that, so if it's an issue then players should contest those stated reasons. Mac and I have played a ton of Mafia together and I think we boast a certain degree of synergy. Sure, I could be wrong about him here (I could be wrong about any read I ever state), but without a good reason to think so I'm not going to move from my perspective. Sell me on it by telling me why my reasons for town reading Mac are dubious or weak.

[/quote]

Sure, I might revise that.

If Mac happens to flip mafia, for example, it will be your first error in how you read lynched players so far. What will that make of you?

[Ricochet]

linki2: JJJ like RDW prefer to be town or rogues over scum. This is meta talk but a truth nonetheless. I was speaking exclusively about JJJ.

What bearing does this have with anything? Roles weren't assigned based on preferential alignments and meta.

[MacDougall]

Bantz defense is scummy now. Noted.

When rather right off the bat, yes, a bit.

Matt came with the SK theory, second reaction you make to it is telling "us idiots" to be able to make a right call if the theory is valid or not.

Now that Epi pointed at you and JJJ curiously handing each other stronk town reads, and I approve of that, your reaction was to "compliment" our reading skills.

It's banter and it's dismissive and it slightly makes me wonder why the need for it, instead of a casual response.

I enjoy humour.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What will that make of you?

It'd mean I'm 4 for 5, and in baseball that's a great night.

I do grant though that it'd be a big read to get wrong and I'd have to deal with the firestorm that follows. That's Mafia.

[Choutas]

linki2: JJJ like RDW prefer to be town or rogues over scum. This is meta talk but a truth nonetheless. I was speaking exclusively about JJJ.

What bearing does this have with anything? Roles weren't assigned based on preferential alignments and meta.

They don't invest themselves the same way. Their styles are different but they don't go 100% in their play-styles when they're scum. Especially JJJ has to copy a very time consuming meticulous playstyle so it's even harder for him to be supertownie.

[Ricochet]

linki2: JJJ like RDW prefer to be town or rogues over scum. This is meta talk but a truth nonetheless. I was speaking exclusively about JJJ.

What bearing does this have with anything? Roles weren't assigned based on preferential alignments and meta.

They don't invest themselves the same way. Their styles are different but they don't go 100% in their play-styles when they're scum. Especially JJJ has to copy a very time consuming meticulous playstyle so it's even harder for him to be supertownie.

Noted, but I will only moderately consider it. Doing your best to look towniest can still be a valid tactic.

[Ricochet]

Not to mention that we've just had RDW flip civilian (a pretty valuable one, too) and having invested basically zero farks into this game.

Looking into meta for me means more looking for (in)consistency, not so much tendency.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac: what has been your level of desire to portray your style in this foreign environment?

[Ricochet]

I'm off to jog and then prepare to go hear Jordi Savall live. I'll be back later or on Day 6, if I'm not killed (or if the SK doesn't get Choutas' letter).

But seriously, don't touch me I'm a real live wire.

[MacDougall]

Mac: what has been your level of desire to portray your style in this foreign environment?

How I am playing has nothing to do with a desire to imitate myself. I am playing the only way I know how.

[Choutas]

Mac: what has been your level of desire to portray your style in this foreign environment?

foreign and hostile like amazon rainforest.
linki: I sent it with a courier

Il était une fois
Toi et moi
N'oublie jamais ça
Toi et moi

[Marmot]

Am I the only person who becomes wistful and retrospective when listening to the Beatles.
I ponder on my whole life, all of the people I met, the good times, the bad times, how music changed etc.
Seriously the only band who flips that switch.

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

Why would being rogue make him more like to get nightkilled?

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

You think the scum would have bumped me off if I was a rogue but not if I'm town?

I "notice" that you said the same thing.

You cracked the case guys. Jimmy has been publicly orchestrating town lynches on purpose while maintaining a vocal town read on a teammate and we both bussed Long Con on day 2 because he asked us to.

Or we are both townies who have a town read on each other and both had a scum read on a scum player.

And in a twist of fate you two are our teammates.

You may have Jay fooled, but you don't have me fooled.

So you're willing to assume I'm merely wrong and not a dark evil overlord?

This is not a joke question if it appears as such.

Even if I did suspect you, I can't ignore everything you say. My read of you would remain stagnant, and I could be wrong.

I don't read you as mafia right now if that's what you're wondering.

[MacDougall]

It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

[Marmot]

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

Why is it easier to pull off being right about which lynches are/feel right and which feel wrong as a solitary rogue, compared to a being in a team of seven, aware of who is civilian (except for the SK)?

In a previous game I was solo indy and I was totally in the fog at discerning mafia from civs, contributing to several civ lynches. As soon as it also appeared that I soft defended a confirmed mafia, the field roasted me. So at least from a personal experience, I dispute this theory that the rogue can con with better reads than a mafioso; if a player is in very good form, he can certainly pull great reads, but as a rogue, he is definitely not more knowledgeable than the mafia.

Maybe you just had a bad game?

As an SK, you want mafia dead to, so whether you like or not, your best bet is to work with the civilians to get mafia lynched.

[Marmot]

What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

I know you didn't say it. But "I noticed that too" is suggestive you "picked up on" something as opposed to merely observing it in broad daylight. One does not "notice" the sun.

However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly. We've both also supplied a ton of reasons for that, so if it's an issue then players should contest those stated reasons. Mac and I have played a ton of Mafia together and I think we boast a certain degree of synergy. Sure, I could be wrong about him here (I could be wrong about any read I ever state), but without a good reason to think so I'm not going to move from my perspective. Sell me on it by telling me why my reasons for town reading Mac are dubious or weak.

If I recall, the reasoning you offered me is that Macdougall is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable player, and he is excellent at keeping himself alive, and hunting for scum whether he is one of them or not. His meta does not change from game-to-game, you said.

So this townread of him that I heard from you is meta-based, and doesn't directly acknowledge his behavior this game. Just saying.

[MacDougall]

What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

I know you didn't say it. But "I noticed that too" is suggestive you "picked up on" something as opposed to merely observing it in broad daylight. One does not "notice" the sun.

However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly. We've both also supplied a ton of reasons for that, so if it's an issue then players should contest those stated reasons. Mac and I have played a ton of Mafia together and I think we boast a certain degree of synergy. Sure, I could be wrong about him here (I could be wrong about any read I ever state), but without a good reason to think so I'm not going to move from my perspective. Sell me on it by telling me why my reasons for town reading Mac are dubious or weak.

If I recall, the reasoning you offered me is that Macdougall is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable player, and he is excellent at keeping himself alive, and hunting for scum whether he is one of them or not. His meta does not change from game-to-game, you said.

So this townread of him that I heard from you is meta-based, and doesn't directly acknowledge his behavior this game. Just saying.

Okay so now I'm convinced you just want me lynched and aren't actually trying to hunt scum because that last sentence is 100% not true.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

ISO for Black Rock:

If it's not clear in the text, I am going to try to read this full ISO starting at a neutral read and then allow my read the room to end up wherever it may.

Spoiler: show

I guess no one is going to make me laugh today. *self vote*

Elohcin, I just started and I have read the rules. Have you?

This is a bit on the snarky side.

Spoiler: show

I'll explain what it is:

We'll run down the list of living players together (I'll shout out the names two at a time) and everyone including me will offer a ONE WORD read on that player WITH NO "NEUTRAL" ALLOWED.

The only legal words are "GOOD" or "BAD". Nothing else is acceptable.

Sounds like fun, I can't participate because I leave soon and also my opinion wouldn't be educated anyways. I already have good feelings on a couple of players though.

It is going to make extra pages though, but easy for me to get through so I approve.

BR had to bail just before the gun to head reads which is fine. I am curious about her claim that I've highlighted though. If her efforts to catch up were proving difficult (which I'd understand), it's a significant thing that she'd be feeling good about anyone. I'm not sure she actually named the people either.

Spoiler: show

I'm in for gut reads, but JJJ you have to play too. And, for post number reasons, lets make it four or five at a time?

That's a great idea.

JJJ, what do you think about Epignosis? Sorry if you have said something before about him but I can guarantee I haven't read it.

I can't remember if I answered this question at the time, but it's dated now anyway. Why did you ask, BR?

Spoiler: show

It's completely possible he is part of the scum team, but I won't leave someone new out in the cold in case they are really struggling.

I hear that. On Day 0 or Day 1, I would've been right there with you.

But on Day 4...after voting several times...after "having the gist of it" in pre-game...



At the same time, I don't want to railroad a new guy if he is being genuine. Weird, though.

I'm more inclined to believe he is a lost civvie. I feel if he was on a Mafia team he would have some peeps to talk him through it.

I know it's no excuse for my slow catch up but I started this game going into Thanksgiving weekend and as a caterer my hours have been long. Tomorrow is our family TG dinner and also two different celebrations of my sons 3rd Bday. It's not going to get easier for me until Tuesday.

It's completely possible he is part of the scum team, but I won't leave someone new out in the cold in case they are really struggling.

I hear that. On Day 0 or Day 1, I would've been right there with you.

But on Day 4...after voting several times...after "having the gist of it" in pre-game...



At the same time, I don't want to railroad a new guy if he is being genuine. Weird, though.

I'm more inclined to believe he is a lost civvie. I feel if he was on a Mafia team he would have some peeps to talk him through it.

If Floyd was on my Mafia team, and he had been rarely posting but making votes without explanation, I would absolutely tell him to start asking questions in thread to avoid suspicion.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I was taught this in my first game ever (I was Mafia my first game).

Does anyone agree this is possible?

(expecting Roxy to vote me again for questioning the new guy) :P

I never thought of it that way. I guess that is the other possibility. If he was on my team I wouldn't want him to come in at this point feigning ignorance, so that's not how I saw it.

I'm quite surprised BR had any confidence to take a stance on Floyd's alignment given the challenging position she was still in at this point in catching up fully. If BR is mafia, then I would consider this pretty conclusive spew that Floyd is town.

Spoiler: show

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p184571

I decided to link to this post instead of quoting it since it's so damn long. I think a lot of thought has gone into this post. Two people that stand out to me is Epignosis and Russ.

I'm not used to Epi have a positive look at LC. He often thinks LC is bad and leaves him alone as neutral. With all the crap that was going on with LC I'm surprised he didn't jump on the lynch train himself. He has gone after him for less.

Russ didn't seem to want to make up his mind. Now I would have to go back and read Russ to make up my mind on him as well but if I recall his was a last minute vote changer as well.

After reading this particular post I have no suspicion of Sorsha. Sorsha and LC have been playing together for eons and they respect each other. LC has been really bad at reading her, she is a hard player to read. I believe that to be an honest assessment.

Sorsha
votes LC... for CEO spot (good leadership)
D1 implies she read something into LC's bait tactic, but later questions his choice for bea; finds his replies unrealistic
doesn't find LC to have backpedalled
===
> agreed with b24 on BWT's case, voted BWT

Just a copy and paste I didn't keep the fancy colouring.

This is not a new tactic LC has used and he often does try it as a civvie, not surprised she believed him. Hell I would have.

Anyways, I'm not voting for Sorsha today. I'd be surprised if she was bad.

Okay here's content that I can definitely call suspicious.

Yellow: It's curious to attack Russ merely for changing his mind (especially when using that language since it's literally what he'd be doing as a townie), and it's even more curious when that "last minute vote change" was actually highly important to secure the LC lynch (credit: DrWilgy).

Orange: This is not a good set of sentences. She is throwing serious shade at Epi for something that I think appears plain manipulative. Epi had a positive read on LC, which can be called suspicious as a defense of LC -- but that's not what BR said. She said it's suspicious because Epi normally reads LC as bad. Whether that's even true I couldn't say, but it's the wrong mindset in my opinion. Epi's read of LC in this game is independent of his read on LC in any other game, and it can only be assessed for its validity in this game. This reads to me like an attempt to smear Epi for his incorrect LC read without making the straight up accusation of "it was a defense of a team mate".

I see now continuing in the ISO that Epi took issue with this post as well, though he attacked it from a different angle.

BR's response to his suspicion is underwhelming.

Spoiler: show

I'm going to vote Devin, I think he's more likely to turn up bad. I really don't think Sorsha is bad.

Picked one townie instead of a different townie. Null.

Spoiler: show

Now that I'm all caught up, does anyone else get the feeling that Roxy could be the SK?

Just a feeling I had as I was catching up. Her tone when discussing such matters... I don't know seems a bit off.

The read on Roxy could be dead on for all I know, but the language is elite-tier vague. Mafia members would love to find the SK too, so it's noteworthy that BR joined this discussion despite having a somewhat limited focus as a baddie-hunter prior to this.

Spoiler: show

The whole time I was catching up and actually reading Roxys posts I thought it was Unfurl. While I was writing the post I noticed Unfurl was not playing. I then went back and saw it was in fact Roxy and changed the name in my post. Because of her Avatar I have two very different opinions on Roxy. Does she know something about Matt or is she a killer? By her posts I am leaning towards killer, by her voting record I am leaning towards info. What is a lady to do.

I'm willing to believe this mixup was genuine, but I'd expect it to have some impact on her read. If the read is entirely based on tone (see prior post), then the identity of the player conveying that tone should be pretty critical. She might have forced herself to maintain her read.

Spoiler: show

No, BR I do not think Roxy is the SK. I have a hard time believing someone who knows her like you do would actually think that she would Nk a fairly new player to the site N1.

I agree with the kill inheriting discussed. If I had one faction killing one night, and the second another, whatever team left would inherit the kill regardless of size. I think I've seen it eliminated, but this is most likely imo

I should probably just be lynched because I deserve to die on account of missing the vote and all.

I think that is a bit narrow minded. I wouldn't knock her off the list just because of a night one kill.

I must admit I have no idea who was killed night one. I decided to move forward to keep up with the game as it is playing out.

I like your soft defend coupled with a soft accuse. Well played.

I see how you think you deserve to die, but I deserve to die because I missed a lynch and then didn't complete my punishment.

Throws shade at splints for "soft defending" Roxy, which is an interesting accusation if she thinks of Roxy as a SK candidate and not a mafia candidate.

Spoiler: show

I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

You are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill. The post was designed to get Roxy in here so I could have a more solid read on her. Instead I have her knight riding in here on her white horse. What should I make of that Splints? Now my post is meaningless for what it was designed to do. I guess I will put a big ? mark beside her and read more up on you.

Okay, I outright don't believe the highlighted sentence. I think BR was genuinely trying to generate lynch-inclined pressure on Roxy as a SK suspect -- and that she'd claim it merely for pressure's sake is a bad look.

Spoiler: show

I read Splints posts. She came into the game assuming Roxy is civvie because of who was killed night 1. I know Roxy doesn't like to pick on new players but I also know she can be pretty ruthless. If she didn't want to kill new players she would be less likely the SK but Splints doesn't think she could be on the baddie team either?

I still am leaning one way towards Roxy more than the other but I am going to reserve judgement for now. I find it more interesting that she has voted for Matt 5 times in a row.

I am undecided on Matt vs Mac. I'm hoping to see what I perceive to be an honest reaction from Roxy about my theories.

I deserve to die because I am an awful player who should have a better memory regarding punishments.

I think I can see splints' beef with BR pretty clearly now. I think my reads on these two have reversed.

Spoiler: show

fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

That's not the first incident. We are at odds frequently. Sometimes we are civ vs civ, sometimes she's bad and sometimes I am.

I'm having a day. When I say a day, I mean I have been very angry all day and want to punch someone in the face. I am only coming in here to vote. I am going to vote Devin.

I am going to leave the Roxy and Splints thing alone for now. It turns out some of the shit I was reading in Roxy had other things going on that I was unaware of. With respect to Roxy I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I deserve to die for various reasons.

Potentially an important vote contributing to the eventual demise of Devin, and it came after his self-vote.

~~~

Black Rock is suspicious. I endorse her lynch, and offer my apologies to both Epi and splints for taking this long to do this analysis and come to the conclusions you've been pushing for a while.

[Marmot]

If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

[MacDougall]

Relationship between MacDougall and Long Con:

Spoiler: show

Bea has opinions about who is Civvie, but none about who is bad. A Mafia member knows every Civvie out there, so can proclaim their trust with confidence. I think bea is Mafia, and I'm going to put my vote on her for now.

*votes bea*

This post set off scumdar pretty bad. It reads tactical, mindful ... I don't like it. No other posts in Long Con's ISO trouble me. It just seems like a nervous first major action.

MacAttack right off the bat. Good look, not just because it's anti-LC but because this is the kind of thing that helped to force LC to pretend it was ruse.

Here we have MacDougall and LC literally discussing the Nothing but Flowers role in the thread.

Mac brought the role up, and LC couldn't resist the urge to comment. Do I think two mafia team mates were chatting the day away about one of their own roles publicly in the thread? I absolutely don't. Towniest look of any analysis I've done so far, congratulations Mac.

Spoiler: show

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form.

Spoiler: show

I'm used to an unchangeable vote mentality for the most part. I'll put a vote on Macdougal for the reasons I gave earlier.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

~~~

Mac looks like a townie and y'all should do what he says.

For posterity Metalmarsh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not awful at Mafia and that sometimes it can be beneficial to trust me a little bit. Is my town read on you going to be the reason they never trust me again ever when this game is over?

[MacDougall]

If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

Using meta to dismiss scum reads on me is one thing, but to reduce his town read of me down to that is non genuine.

[MacDougall]

It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not awful at Mafia and that sometimes it can be beneficial to trust me a little bit. Is my town read on you going to be the reason they never trust me again ever when this game is over?

If you're the townie that I think you are your read on me is good.

[Ricochet]

Goddammit, it's the third day in a row when I go out to jog and it starts raining!

@JJJ Being correct in most things makes me really pump you up in my rainbow list. It's really hard to pull this off as anti-town(it's easier if you're rogue but the scum would have bumped you off already imo). You're either a townie or having a HoF performance as scum. I'll take the most likely scenario and paint you town.

Why is it easier to pull off being right about which lynches are/feel right and which feel wrong as a solitary rogue, compared to a being in a team of seven, aware of who is civilian (except for the SK)?

In a previous game I was solo indy and I was totally in the fog at discerning mafia from civs, contributing to several civ lynches. As soon as it also appeared that I soft defended a confirmed mafia, the field roasted me. So at least from a personal experience, I dispute this theory that the rogue can con with better reads than a mafioso; if a player is in very good form, he can certainly pull great reads, but as a rogue, he is definitely not more knowledgeable than the mafia.

Maybe you just had a bad game?

As an SK, you want mafia dead to, so whether you like or not, your best bet is to work with the civilians to get mafia lynched.

From that perspective, yes, it was a bad game for me. I was always never convinced where to put my vote (it being a sock game also didn't help) and it came out wrong too many times.

I still won it though. And so did you, in fact.

I did try to work with the civilians whilst alive, but it backfired when I made too many mistakes. That's why I'm disputing, at least on a personal level, that indies have it easier and awareness tools to pull off an town facade, whilst being anti-town.

[Epignosis]

Let's talk about me. I like me.

I call upon Choutas to read Epignosis as a possible serial killer and tell me what he thinks. Over to you Choutas.

Some things that have pinged me(see I can use the TS word ping myself).
1) He sounds like the TS version of theprofessional. Compliment or slander you make the call.
2) http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 18#p185718 This suggestion is weird, we had two couples on rym and there was never a game where them living together or knowing each other well has given town extra insight. It's the kind of post I'd make if I were scum and pink with her bf(fuck I'm forgetting names now) also played the game.
3) Too interested in upholding the rules. I was doing it a lot in my earlier games, it's not something I should look negatively but it's worth pointing out.
4) He corrected others about his Meta. This is a bit wrong. Everybody has argued their own Meta at least. On the other hand Meta is what the other players view on you is not self-determined. Arguing your Meta brings us to WIFOM. WIFOM can be employed by an anti-town player to survive a meta accusation.
5) Accused you of pulling a confidence trick. That's a less direct way of calling you a con man. He voted for you and said that his votes on you has nothing to do with you calling him a SK I think. Well then what was the reason?(Epi if you can point me to the post you explain I'll retract that point). It looks like an OMGUS vote or OMGUS influenced vote unless I see the reason.

He looks suss enough to make a bigger case.

1. I don't know this person.
2. The two couples on RYM are probably cheating on each other. They should seek counseling.
3. I don't know what specifically gave you that impression or why it's worth pointing out. But yes, I like rules, and I like the rules followed, whether I'm playing or hosting.
4. I don't believe I corrected anyone about my "Meta," for two reasons. First, I don't have one. That's why it amuses me so when people come in claiming I tend to do this or I like to do that. I do little different things all the time regardless of my alignment. Keeps things fresh. Second, if someone makes a claim about what I normally do with no references to back this up, and I refute their impression with actual examples, that's not correcting others about my "meta," that's just correcting others.
5. This is what I said. MacDougall brought up the SK thing after I accused him of being Mafia.

[Marmot]

It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not awful at Mafia and that sometimes it can be beneficial to trust me a little bit. Is my town read on you going to be the reason they never trust me again ever when this game is over?

If espers was lynched and flipped mafia, that might have helped too.

Linki: I am also going to go for a run today even though it's going to rain.

[Elohcin]

If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

I am not done catching up from the posts that took place while I was sleeping but I had to stop and comment on this. What kind of person says something like this. C'mon Mac, you were so fun when the game started and now you are being an asshat.

[MacDougall]

If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

I am not done catching up from the posts that took place while I was sleeping but I had to stop and comment on this. What kind of person says something like this. C'mon Mac, you were so fun when the game started and now you are being an asshat.

What's wrong with it exactly?

[Marmot]

If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

Using meta to dismiss scum reads on me is one thing, but to reduce his town read of me down to that is non genuine.

When I was suspecting you as mafia, Jay went out and pulled a blurb about you from RYM to describe your meta-game. I take it with a grain of salt, but I accept the thought none-the-less. I am not solely intent on lynching you. My point was that when I suspected you, Jay didn't say anything about this game, but just pulled up a statement about your play in general. It's helpful, but not the kinda thing that can dismiss you as town.

But thanks for pulling up that other post. That is more helpful.

Linki: I don't think MacDougall said anything wrong there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I recall, the reasoning you offered me is that Macdougall is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable player, and he is excellent at keeping himself alive, and hunting for scum whether he is one of them or not. His meta does not change from game-to-game, you said.

So this townread of him that I heard from you is meta-based, and doesn't directly acknowledge his behavior this game. Just saying.

I have included meta in my reasoning, but I have absolutely assessed his content in this game a great deal. Mac just reposted my analysis of his LC interactions -- review that and tell me where I'm wrong.

[Choutas]

I find it hilarious that the syndicators are doing their best to lynch other syndicators(at least until day 4) and rymers are doing their best to lynch syndicators too. It's only after the Macdougall controversy that suspicions started piling onto some rymers. Perhaps we're looking at the wrong forum. Isn't Metalmarsh rymer emeritus no?
You're scum bro?
Why the movember smilie is thellama73 smilie?

[MacDougall]

If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

Using meta to dismiss scum reads on me is one thing, but to reduce his town read of me down to that is non genuine.

When I was suspecting you as mafia, Jay went out and pulled a blurb about you from RYM to describe your meta-game. I take it with a grain of salt, but I accept the thought none-the-less. I am not solely intent on lynching you. My point was that when I suspected you, Jay didn't say anything about this game, but just pulled up a statement about your play in general. It's helpful, but not the kinda thing that can dismiss you as town.

But thanks for pulling up that other post. That is more helpful.

Linki: I don't think MacDougall said anything wrong there.

Fair deuce.

[MacDougall]

2. The two couples on RYM are probably cheating on each other. They should seek counseling.

Okay if that's okay to say then nobody can complain about anything I say for the rest of the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Out for a while. Top suspects are Black Rock and espers.

Note to self: continue assessments with Roxy, bcornett, and Russ.

[MacDougall]

I am going to bed.

Elohcin I fully expect to see a post calling Epignosis an asshat upon my return.

Goodnight all.

[Marmot]

Out for a while. Top suspects are Black Rock and espers.

Note to self: continue assessments with Roxy, bcornett, and Russ.

Do you think a BR/Russ team is likely at this point?

I've started a response to your BR ISO, I'll finish it later.

[Elohcin]

I feel quite safe this evening.

B/c you can't self target, right?!

I call upon Choutas to read Epignosis as a possible serial killer and tell me what he thinks. Over to you Choutas.

Distancing, I see. Clever. But you're not fooling me.

If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

I am not done catching up from the posts that took place while I was sleeping but I had to stop and comment on this. What kind of person says something like this. C'mon Mac, you were so fun when the game started and now you are being an asshat.

What's wrong with it exactly?

"After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months."

Rude.

I am going to bed.

Elohcin I fully expect to see a post calling Epignosis an asshat upon my return.

Goodnight all.

I don't think Epi has been an asshat this game. He's actually been kinder than normal. Can anyone else vouch for that?

[Matt]

Elohcin, you're awesome dudette! But also, I think Mac was just having fun with me. That being said, I think he and everyone else should be having fun with YOU.

3J - I reread your analysis on Mac. If Long Con wanted out of the game because his Mafia is starting up soon, like many players have suggested, then why is it out of the realm of possibility that Mac and Long Con's interactions were staged?

Also, at the end of your analysis, you say "Ya all should do as he says"...even if civilian, Mac isn't infallible, so I'm having trouble with this statement.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Elohcin, you're awesome dudette! But also, I think Mac was just having fun with me. That being said, I think he and everyone else should be having fun with YOU.

3J - I reread your analysis on Mac. If Long Con wanted out of the game because his Mafia is starting up soon, like many players have suggested, then why is it out of the realm of possibility that Mac and Long Con's interactions were staged?

Also, at the end of your analysis, you say "Ya all should do as he says"...even if civilian, Mac isn't infallible, so I'm having trouble with this statement.

Yellow: I don't think this is likely to be true. LC knew where he stood on the full game queue, so why would he even join this game if he just planned on bailing as soon as his own game got rolling? I'm not going to rely on this kind of conjecture when I am making a read on someone else. It's total guesswork, and I don't find it to be grounded in logic anyway. LC was a member of a baddie team, and it would have been a disservice to that team to just throw himself on the sword on Day 1 or Day 2 so he could focus on his own business. That's leaving the team high and dry even if it might lend them town cred for a while. I don't know LC well enough to tell you whether he's that type of person, but I don't think most people operate this way. I sure as hell don't.

Orange: I was really just being playful there. I do town read him, but I don't actually demand that y'all do everything he tells you to do.

[Matt]

Elohcin, you're awesome dudette! But also, I think Mac was just having fun with me. That being said, I think he and everyone else should be having fun with YOU.

3J - I reread your analysis on Mac. If Long Con wanted out of the game because his Mafia is starting up soon, like many players have suggested, then why is it out of the realm of possibility that Mac and Long Con's interactions were staged?

Also, at the end of your analysis, you say "Ya all should do as he says"...even if civilian, Mac isn't infallible, so I'm having trouble with this statement.

Yellow: I don't think this is likely to be true. LC knew where he stood on the full game queue, so why would he even join this game if he just planned on bailing as soon as his own game got rolling? I'm not going to rely on this kind of conjecture when I am making a read on someone else. It's total guesswork, and I don't find it to be grounded in logic anyway. LC was a member of a baddie team, and it would have been a disservice to that team to just throw himself on the sword on Day 1 or Day 2 so he could focus on his own business. That's leaving the team high and dry even if it might lend them town cred for a while. I don't know LC well enough to tell you whether he's that type of person, but I don't think most people operate this way. I sure as hell don't.

Orange: I was really just being playful there. I do town read him, but I don't actually demand that y'all do everything he tells you to do.

Yellow - I don't think he would intentionally sign up for a game only to bail either, however, this game has been on fire since it started with several players already complaining about the high volume. Perhaps LC knew he would be limited with his own game underway. And even if it was not LC's intention to bail, I know in past games, I've gone after my teamies on Day 1 or 2 just to say later in case they're lynched "Hey look over here, I was suspecting him too!" The fact that Mac was able to call out Long Con on his bea case, when Mac doesn't know either one of them, is interesting.

Orange - Fair enough. I figured as much, but just wanted to ask.

Underline - I hope my theories aren't starting to annoy you

[Matt]

Epignosis - Why haven't you been playing around with Elohcin? Surely you have noticed what I have, so what gives? Btw, it may seem strange that I'm asking you this and not everyone else in the thread, but considering you two are an item (i think?), and I think you've defended her this game, I would think you would also be playin' with her.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Theorize at will Matt, I'm not annoyed at all.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis - Why haven't you been playing around with Elohcin? Surely you have noticed what I have, so what gives? Btw, it may seem strange that I'm asking you this and not everyone else in the thread, but considering you two are an item (i think?), and I think you've defended her this game, I would think you would also be playin' with her.

You are all cum.

Erm, no.

That's only half true.

I love it. Epi's got the jokes today. (and Matt-Matt too of course)

Alright...one page down, two to go.

Some of us wait for the set up rather than go for the stand up.

[Tangrowth]

Hosts, could you state whether this post is sufficient to avoid a modkill? If this question is more than you'd care to answer then please don't answer it. Thanks.

ugh why am i still not dead

i'm genuinely sorry for my behaviour, but i'm way behind and not really invested in this right now.

no insult intended to the hosts or anyone playing, i'm just not in the right frame of mind for this. don't anticipate checking in again.

also, i deserve to die for missing the vote

I'm not sure if this adequately answers your question at this time, but what I will say is that espers's position in this game has been clarified, and after Night 5 it will be clear one way or the other to the thread whether he will still be playing this game or not.

[Matt]

Y'know, I remember that interaction between the two of you, but completely forgot about when questioning you, Epi.

Straw - I never responded to you earlier, my bad. I agree that this game is unusual with the excessive amount of high volume the thread count is getting, however, it's not just that.

In pre-game, Floyd said he thinks he's "got this".

For the first few days, he placed his votes during the day, and since he was never punished or mod-killed, I'm going to assume that he sent in his Night PMs.

People start calling him out. He then says "Uhhh I don't know how to play" (paraphrasing). It seems suspect.

Do you buy his explanation as to why he referred to you and him as "rivals" in this game?

Bullzeye - Who'd you target Night 4? Be honest.

[Matt]

Bullzeye - Nevermind. Haha!

[Bullzeye]

Bullzeye - Who'd you target Night 4? Be honest.

Why the hell would you be asking me to infodump and get myself modkilled?

Have you even met me? I hate infodumping.

[RadicalFuzz]

Thanks MM, but there are flaws with that as well. I lack, as J3 has said, a sense of urgency. If I'm committing myself to remain calm then I have to deaden the importance of the situation, and controlled panic can be a good thing.

Sorry about that earlier J3, I forgot to add the actual statement. If you had to be stranded on the moon with three people from this game, which three would you take to avoid getting stabbed in the back?

[Matt]

Bullzeye - Who'd you target Night 4? Be honest.

Why the hell would you be asking me to infodump and get myself modkilled?

Have you even met me? I hate infodumping.

Bullzeye - Nevermind. Haha!

But your strong reaction is noted.

[Bullzeye]

Bullzeye - Who'd you target Night 4? Be honest.

Why the hell would you be asking me to infodump and get myself modkilled?

Have you even met me? I hate infodumping.

Bullzeye - Nevermind. Haha!

But your strong reaction is noted.

You asked me twice. I ignored you the first time. I think you deliberately trying to get people modkilled is ridiculous. My reaction wasn't strong at all.

[RadicalFuzz]

Bullzeye what do you think of J3's questions to the mods regarding espers?