[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Epignosis]

I don't see how that's helpful.

The post wasn't meant to be helpful. I was acknowledging that I had not done my due diligence on the Russ read and that I should change that.

This is also odd:

Yeah I think FZ has raised a decent point about Russ, and I can't see any other explanations, so I will be *Voting Russti*

Whaddya think of my reviews of Diiny and Devin, which returned a number of pings for me?

No it isn't. I constantly ask for feedback on everything.

Bullz goes for Russ, and you wave your hands in the air "What about Dinny and Devin?"

It's suspicious.

[Epignosis]

3J, if Russ is bad, I think you are too.

Show me the content of that massive post you quoted in its entirety which brings you to make this comment.

I could have been wrong about Russ, I don't know. I definitely wasn't right in my analyses of everyone.

I don't need to show you any content. It's all there. You've defended MacDougall, whom I suspect. You've defended Russtifinko, whom I suspect. You dragged your ass on Black Rock, whom I suspect.

And all this time you've been begging for support to lynch civilians.

You deserve a great deal of scrutiny.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bullz goes for Russ, and you wave your hands in the air "What about Dinny and Devin?"

It's suspicious.

If Russ flips mafia, then I can understand this being seen that way. I was in the midst of a massive workload in this game and wanted feedback. Bullzeye wasn't the only person I asked.

[Epignosis]

The bed beckons.

I'll touch the bottom of this swamp tomorrow.

[MacDougall]

@ Matt and Epi: Whatdo you see about rico? I feel like he's been a helpful civ.

For me, it's tone. He sounds like he's trying to be helpful and it's rubbing me as false. That's completely subjective, but that's what it is. My suspicion of him came from him making a big ass post of nothing:

RIP K4J and HamburgerBoy.

It's not...yesterday...anymore.

Lots to catch up on, it seems, but I have to study and have some appointments during the next hours.

From the BWT voters, I have some issues with a few, namely Wilgy, b24, sig.

For I may have said myself before about B24's vote, notably him adding a lot of suspicion parameters, besides the "easy vote" part, that aren't clear to me, at least.

And I may have told myself: Wilgy's vote was first, so I doubt it could have influenced the outcome much, but it gives me strange vibe of being a vote planted in the nest and left there. He criticised BWT's as well as my claims of different gameplay once the game started rolling, but he felt satisfied with my explanations, yet kept the suss on BWT. Furthermore, he said he awaited more info or thoughts from BWT himself (which BWT offered, afterwards), but then didn't return for the last 12 hours of the phase.

And I may have found myself thinking sig's vote for BWT was self-defense - or at least thinking this way because of someone labeling it as such (Golden?) - but it turns out it was a vote based on other's arguments and on BWT being his most suspicious player. Yet I see no traces of BWT growing as a suspect to him. Plus, from his posts, I rather get the feel LC would have qualified as more suspicious overall (on whom he held off voting, preferring BWT instead).

I also may have noted to myself that, although I don't disagree with the fact that BWT made some uninspired D0/Dusk0 moves (hence I don't disagree with this vote for BWT per se), I found Matt to be, except for something about an exchange between Zebra and Roxy, fixated on D0/DU0 issues, rather than the present time. Not sure what to make of this.

---

As for right now, I find you may ask yourself: what's up with MM voting first (again) and why seaside?

And you may ask yourself: what's up with Floyd voting Ace and saying nothing? Is it true that it's his first game ever? Is he familiarized with the procedures, at least? I can understand the anxiety of participating in such a large game, but I still don't know what to make of his ghost vote moves, since he isn't saying anything about them.

And yes, I may find myself that everyone "town reading" him for as little as this should explain why. Let's not turn this into a running joke for this game, without getting some explanations as well.

This is one big ass post full of nothing. You have acknowledged every side of every coin without expressing an opinion yourself.

I'm inclined to believe that your goal is to maintain focus on broad array of people without taking a stand against any particular one of them.

Epi, do you think that the more recent huge post ricochet made is also another "big ass post of nothing"? How many people actually clicked on that ridiculous image link? I look at that image link and it says nothing to me but "check out how much effort I've put in."

This one. It's such a wonderful scum post to make in a thread full of lurkers and people who are struggling to keep up. I've read it three times now and I can't even make sense of why he bothered to make it aside from to come off like he's making an effort.

"Hey check out the dude making effort posts, definite townie, oh and hey he included A TABLE!"

I get the exact same willies from Wilgy. Probably because I have been victimised by this kind of bullshit before.

Here's something I worked on.

This is an update of the LC-players relations. I forgot to take out espers before uploading the picture. Any further mention of espers in the text is also void, but I'm too tired right now to proofread and edit anymore.

http://s15.postimg.org/v31yglvgr/Untitled.png

A few preliminary steps in developing my research:

TOPIC A

The vote tallies right now are an insane and unhelpful chaos for any proper, traditional hunt:

-- on D1, LC, since then confirmed mafia, received only one vote (incidentally, a player, Zebra, that the mafia also disposed two Nights later); that means he had six teammates who went places. Main wagon and mislynch was BWT and that wagon is currently still ripe with alive players (b24, Diiny, Wilgy, Matt, sig; meanwhile only HB and Sorsha are dead), so some of them might still be there, but others could easily have also scattered further.

-- on D2, we have our LC lynchers (out of which so far not a single player has received mafia retribution). Here's the more disturbing aspect: the second wagon (b24) voters have all but one (Epi) been removed from the game, with not a single LC teammate located so far there; the rest of the votes are also worryingly scattered

-- it gets worse during our three-Day mislynch fest:
D3 Golden was lynched and he almost certainly civ. Second wagons was a now-confirmed civ (Sorsha) and me, and I happen to also be civ. Also a smaller wagon on Russ, plus a few remaining scattered votes.
D4 Sorsha was lynched, flipped civ. Second wagon flipped civ D5. Five remaining votes were scattered. Five!
D5 the player with the most visible votes didn't get lynched and the second wagon, manipulation notwithstanding, got actually lynched and flipped civ

CONCLUSION A

Considering that for the past three Days we've had not only mislynches with our top wagons, but also second wagons that later also flipped civs, I believe now is the best time to consider a reevaluation on how and what to hunt for during subsequent phases. Given this D3-D5 bad trend and lack of results, I feel we'll be on a road to nowhere in no time, if the next lynches will keep failing this way. Keep in mind that the mafia can well control such a tendency, if they didn't already do so during the previous Days.

TOPIC B

I find it also telling that the "LC defenders must be baddies" path hasn't led to great results, in pretty much the same way: mislynch after mislynch since LC got caught, the next mislynch always having been an alternative wagon the previous Day. Feels like lynching in circles.

From the stats I pulled, the players left alive who have defended or felt positive about LC are:

-- Roxy
-- Epignosis
-- moi

Gone are:

-- FZ, killed by the Psycho Killer, but I'm personally feeling she was civ
-- Golden, partly suspected for defending and trying to save LC from lynch, before gathering votes and putting into motion his role plan (including asking to be lynched), which contributed even more to his death
-- Sorsha, partly suspected for crass defending of LC, until more suss piled up on her and got her lynched D5
-- Devin, who has a moment of picking up LC's suspicion, then suddenly dropping it and never saying much more about LC until after his death

CONCLUSION B

So with two more players (again, I'm not bad) left to survey using this angle and, worst case (at best, the SK was inspired to take out two mafia during N1 and N3; at worst, no mafia was touched so far), six mafias remaining, it's clear to me we need to start looking a different angles as well, including even the most extreme ones: the potential bussers.

TOPIC C

Here's what we know about LC:

-- he's a competent, dangerous, smart, possibly strategic, "con"ning player when in mafia skin
-- he created a confirmed fake bullsuit case on bea
-- he flipped onto a sig case, calling it his "real" case; it atracted moderate attention, including catching in a web the later confirmed-civ BWT, whose sig vote garnered bad vibes and contributed to his lynch; whether the sig case is also fake bullsuit (in the sense that he tried to frame a second civilian, after bea) or a moderate sussing on a teammate attempt, enough however not to catch fire completely, still remains to be seen; as for the BWT mislynch, it's notable that he distanced from this; if it's mostly a mafia work of art, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it
-- he added in desperate self-preservation a vote on b24 at the end of D2, a player which he didn't address at all during the game. Once again, if the b24 wagon is a mafia work, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it, nor did he interact with any of the b24 sussers
-- someone also mentioned that LC could have well orchestrated everything he did, in order to get himself out of the game (due to conflicts with starting to run AWR soon)

Given all these fabrications, conning, distancing from main lynches or wagons and such, what does your gut tell:
a) did LC's flip leave a lot of his teammates exposed (which, so far, we have made no real progress on with the following lynches); or
b) either LC in a careful strategy or his teammates on their own, through careful steps, took measures that they don't look exposed following LC's flip

Combine A + B + C and, for me at least, you get all the signs that the moment is just right to reevaluate things at a profound level and even consider the extremes of the interactions with LC: either his purest defenders, either the players who were most responsive to question, challenge and ultimately vote him.
Without further ado, and aware of the risks of simply being called mad for going this path, this is exactly what I'll do.

Hear my voice, hear my voice, it's saying something and I hope you're concentrated.

================================

Let's go back to D1. One single vote for LC (from a civ, Zebra; I say civ because I doubt the mafia had any incentive to go cannibal on a teammate on N3 and he was obviously not the SK) and yet I have four players who strongly questioned his gameplay during that very Day:

Re: sig, I'd only be repeating myself. He made a consistent effort in suspecting LC (partly in reaction to what LC himself was placing on him), but then voted BWT for arguments others made and by calling him his most "suspicious player" (with a self-defense motivation added there as well)
Sig returned to his LC speech and gave his vote on him during D2; since then he's put his votes on two mislynches and missed a vote.
Trajectory post LC lynch:
> slight suss on JJJ and Choutas
> strong suspicion on Sorsha (for arguments others made)
> no read on case on Epig
> not sure of Sorsha anymore, suspects Golden and seaside for links to LC
> more and more against Sorsha lynch
> votes Golden
> votes me (for arguments others made)
> finds me genuine in defending, jumps back on Golden (partly agreeing with Wilgy's analysis)
> D4 stays clear of Sorsha wagon, brings back Choutas suss
> considers voting Devin (no previous mention of him!)
> misses vote
> votes Choutas (recurring suss)
> willing to vote MacDougall (when did he ever suspect him before?)
> leans on an Epi vote (for SK arguments MacDougall brought)
> disapproves of espers wagon and votes Devin (for "suspicious expressed in the past"... uh, which ones?)

Complete scrambled of a game, if you ask me.

I had Mac written down as having went hard on LC right from the start and his suss post indeed contains strong language like LC being "tactical, mindful, nervous first major action", but upon revisit it's actually a suspicion in a post in which he goes for Diiny being "the worst" and votes for him, too.
Trajectory afterwards is surprisingly lighthearted:
> picks on rey for making a "hello" contribution
> picks on seaside's absurd townread of Floyd
> not very phased by llama's suss on him being hostile - maybe something to keep in mind about Llama, if Mac flip mafia
> criticises FZ's disapproval of the Sig and Diiny wagons (not using her own justifications)
> brings up theory on Flowers and brings up the idea that lurkers should be lynched; switches vote to rey
DAY ENDS
> N1, engages in rebuttals with LC over his Flower theories
> votes FZ for her case against Epig
> calls for seaside to be dealt with, either as potential mafia or as liability to the civ game, whilst undecided himself
> insists on seaside tactic in reply to Sorsha, whilst also fending off her idea that LC made good points about him (presumably in the Flowers' conversation) and that he didn't challenge LC's thoughts
> more defending against his seaside tactic looking bad
> votes llama, gut read he needs to elaborate, no read on B24, plus suddenly a sign of approval for the LC lynch
> "I have been very wary of LC from the word go", disapproves of Syndicateers' angle that LC wouldn't make such obvious conning
> feeling very good about keeping vote on Llama after Llama's Diiny reasoning
DAYS ENDS "oh look at that the guy who seemed scum was scum and I told you the meta angle was bullsuit"

So for a player bragging at the end of LC's lynch that he always picked up on LC's shtick being scummy and that he had the precise right angle on him, whilst others were contemplating wifom and meta, his entire trajectory is pretty waffles and also never ever putting his stamp on LC. Given this, the timing of his "I've been wary of LC from the word go" - early on, LC wagon starting to brew, but still a comfy moment, with the votes heavily spreaded - is starting to sound a bit cooked.

Further trajectory and votes during the next Days aren't too supertown either. Mislynches Golden and Sorsha. The main angles he approached don't sound good to my ears, if you've paid attention to my Topic B. Here's a sort of summary of his next moves:
> LC defenders must be scum because Occam Razor. Singles out Roxy alongside FZ, Epi, Sorsha.
> Stays pretty much away from JJJ/Golden spat, but turns on Golden once he insists on lynching Sorsha despite having a town read on her
> Suddenly disapproves of Matt's own reasons to lynch Sorsha.
> Split between Sorsha and Golden; would rather see Sorhsa lynched to get a sense of Matt
> Doesn't hop aboard my lynch wagon, but afterwards starts entertaining the idea slightly; goes from pointing out to JJJ about my TH lyrics to suspecting me of using them as the SK. W.T.F.
DAY ENDS. His vote never left Golden, early on.
> "We should lynch Sorsha because she didn't get lynched today (and we can't lynch Rico)". Votes Sorsha. Nuff said.
> Adds arguments that lynching Sorsha would break the game open any way she flips. "Let's take the odds to a civ lynch for future knowledge", guys.
> Again gets discontent with Matt voting Sorsha, a player that he previous asked the thread to lynch, no matter what.
> Flips to Matt, including the Matt Lynch Party invitation.
> Comfy again with Sorsha lynch after seeing Devin lynch catching up.
DAY ENDS. "Oh noes"

I can't believe my senses were so numb. Everything is clear now. MacDougall is le baddie.

motel room. Also quick to tell that LC's case on bea comes off as too strong, but this is in reply to llama's questionnaire on whether bea reacted in a genuine way to LC's vote and case on her.
Starts picking on several things sig said afterwards. Quite insistent on it.
Invites, however, at one point sig to join him on a LC wagon. Ironically, neither ever do.
Calls out LC's flip on sig as "pressured and gross, backpedalling".
DAY ENDS. His vote remains on sig from early banter with him. Not only did he reacted strongly to LC's case and counter-case, along the way, but also invited to a LC wagon, yet nothing from this made him put the stamp on LC.
Incresingly suspicious of every move by LC. Votes him.
Switches to Choutas (for his unexplained vote on LC?). Also considers JJJ lynch.
Goes back to LC, picking him over b24.
DAY ENDS.

Well if LC clearly instructed his teammates to take a stance against him, to the point of bussing when things get totally serious, it's simply unnerving. Don't know what to make of MR. His LC sussing looks so on point, but his D1 flipping is, to put it in his words, "gross" and the vote switches during D2 feel a bit as if he was testing the waters for alternatives or for distancing, but then returned to LC, almost as if shit got serious and he was aware he previously sussed LC enough not to do a stupid move and get out of orbit.

Onwards
> First thought of D3 is that people who defended LC's meta are most suspicious: Sorsha and Epi. Goes with Epi.
> Still wants to hear from Choutas' LC vote.
> Sig is suddenly good.
> JJJ lynch being considered no more.
> Also brings an LC-bea link theory.
DAY ENDS. His vote stayed on Epi all along.
> D4 votes Sorsha for placeholder, oh oh!
> Talks other topics, including Mac potentially bandwagoning on Sorsha.
DAY ENDS. His vote remained on Sorsha.

It's 5am and I don't want to die from exhaustion, so I'll stop here and resume later. I've left enough for now, anyway. I should in theory do JJJ as well and might just do him in full, but you have my crazy gut read on him. I'll grant him this though, compared to what I've revisited above on the other "LC critics", he has been rather more inquisitive and going through all the questioning/analysing stages by comparison. Overall, it'd be a sheer craftsman work, unlike anything I've seen, if he truly bussed LC. Gonna mull on this further.

Others, on the other sides of the spectrum, to follow as well.

Please recast all votes in the poll. Sorry for the inconvenience. Devin should no longer be on the poll.

As to your question, Rico, I'm on phone so I am not quoting: Since Life During Wartime executed the kill, the mafia cannot try to kill during Night 6.

Excellent.

I'd almost say lynch Mac on D7 then, to deprive mafia of their N7 kill, but I still don't trust the SK at all and we still can't afford to continue mislynching.

linki: Strawhenge, don't lose faith. Absolute trust should keep you going in the right direction.

The post above interest me to. Why would he say "I don't trust the SK at all". Wouldn't that go without saying? I think trusting the SK infers more of a "trusting the SK" to make the right kills. Which is a far more scum mentality. Townies lynch, scum kill. Trusting the SK seems like a scum mentality to me.

I will look at Russ and BR now and return with verdicts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't need to show you any content. It's all there. You've defended MacDougall, whom I suspect. You've defended Russtifinko, whom I suspect. You dragged your ass on Black Rock, whom I suspect.

None of those three players are revealed. We still disagree on Mac. I'll decide how I feel about Russ. I analyzed Black Rock when I had the opportunity and stated my perspective.

And all this time you've been begging for support to lynch civilians.

I begged for support with espers. I was wrong about espers.

I did not beg otherwise, and my role in the only mafia lynch cannot be ignored as if it did not occur.

You deserve a great deal of scrutiny.

Everyone does.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The Russ review is going to have wait until tomorrow though. I'm not starting another ISO at 6:20 in the morning.

[RadicalFuzz]

J3 - You understand why I can't trust you anymore.

I asked you the "name three people that won't stab you in the back" question to see what order your list the names in. Mac should've been first, and I thought there was a good possibility I was there, but since you were so adamant on Mac he naturally would've been the first player you thought of. Why Straw? And when exactly did your opinion of Mac change?

The second was to see if you would both answer the question. Only you did. Curiouser and curiouser.

Why did you put Wilgy in your "won't lynch" category?

[MacDougall]

Yeah, it looks like my read on BR converges somewhat with JJJ's. Thanks for pointing out her role in Devin's death; I hadn't thought much about it though it's obvious in hindsight.

I do think making reads and then backing off by saying she made them to get people in thread is suspicious at best, utter BS at worst.

I was going to vote BR now that espers is dead, but fingersplints has convinced me not to. I still might, if I find at day's end that my own reasons are good enough to. Until fingers does the 2 things I pointed out above, I will be ignoring anything she says. It seems to bother her, so maybe it'll induce her to play for real.

I agree with Epi. Both these posts read like Russ making excuses for not lynching a teammate.

linki: What does the second last sentence there mean Fuzz? I don't follow?

[MacDougall]

I would like to see a bit more analysis on motel room and Choutas. Those two have been remarkably subdued and also remarkably teflon. Also Roxy, who I recall was getting quite a bit of interest early game has gone dark (understandably) and as a result has had all suspicion taken off her. Bullzeye also seems to have done similar.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

J3 - You understand why I can't trust you anymore.

I asked you the "name three people that won't stab you in the back" question to see what order your list the names in. Mac should've been first, and I thought there was a good possibility I was there, but since you were so adamant on Mac he naturally would've been the first player you thought of. Why Straw? And when exactly did your opinion of Mac change?

My opinion of Mac didn't change. I was throwing vague shade at him to see how he'd respond and didn't think he responded poorly. You asked me for three names, so I gave you three names. I have been stating a town read on Mac, but that doesn't mean I'm as confident about that read as I am about other town reads. How could I be considering the unpopularity of that read? I did think of him, but I consciously chose not to include him.

If you'd asked me for four or five names, I'd have probably included Mac. Three is a small number in a field this large.

The second was to see if you would both answer the question. Only you did. Curiouser and curiouser.

Why is that curious? I'm willing to answer a weird question if there's some chance the person asking has a tangible strategy in mind, and I think it's clear that your tangible strategy is to ask weird questions.

Why did you put Wilgy in your "won't lynch" category?

Because I read him as more town than not, as I read the other people named. Should I not read him that way?

[MacDougall]

I don't see anything wrong with Black Rock actually. It would be easy for me to just agree here but nothing she is saying is pinging me at all.

I actually think Russ's posts are more likely to be a scum trying to avoid a town lynch.

Am I missing something about Black Rock?

linki: RadicalFuzz, asking weird questions is a really nice way for someone to design scum reads on townies and is a poor substitute for post analysis in my opinion.

RadicalFuzz answer me this. If you had a carton of beer and you could only share it with three players in the game, but one of the beers had my piss in it, who would you share it with?

Keep in mind that no matter what you say I will find a reason for your answer to make you scummy, and if you refuse to answer or fail to answer that makes you scummy too.

RadicalFuzz if you don't start doing actual post analysis I'm going to have no choice but to call you names. You have so few quotes, you have stuck your nose in so few scraps. You are just sitting around asking questions and playing a game totally your own. Get involved.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Am I missing something about Black Rock?

I'll highlight the points about her that I found most significant:

*snip*

Spoiler: show

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p184571

I decided to link to this post instead of quoting it since it's so damn long. I think a lot of thought has gone into this post. Two people that stand out to me is Epignosis and Russ.

I'm not used to Epi have a positive look at LC. He often thinks LC is bad and leaves him alone as neutral. With all the crap that was going on with LC I'm surprised he didn't jump on the lynch train himself. He has gone after him for less.

Russ didn't seem to want to make up his mind. Now I would have to go back and read Russ to make up my mind on him as well but if I recall his was a last minute vote changer as well.

After reading this particular post I have no suspicion of Sorsha. Sorsha and LC have been playing together for eons and they respect each other. LC has been really bad at reading her, she is a hard player to read. I believe that to be an honest assessment.

Sorsha
votes LC... for CEO spot (good leadership)
D1 implies she read something into LC's bait tactic, but later questions his choice for bea; finds his replies unrealistic
doesn't find LC to have backpedalled
===
> agreed with b24 on BWT's case, voted BWT

Just a copy and paste I didn't keep the fancy colouring.

This is not a new tactic LC has used and he often does try it as a civvie, not surprised she believed him. Hell I would have.

Anyways, I'm not voting for Sorsha today. I'd be surprised if she was bad.

Okay here's content that I can definitely call suspicious.

Yellow: It's curious to attack Russ merely for changing his mind (especially when using that language since it's literally what he'd be doing as a townie), and it's even more curious when that "last minute vote change" was actually highly important to secure the LC lynch (credit: DrWilgy).

Orange: This is not a good set of sentences. She is throwing serious shade at Epi for something that I think appears plain manipulative. Epi had a positive read on LC, which can be called suspicious as a defense of LC -- but that's not what BR said. She said it's suspicious because Epi normally reads LC as bad. Whether that's even true I couldn't say, but it's the wrong mindset in my opinion. Epi's read of LC in this game is independent of his read on LC in any other game, and it can only be assessed for its validity in this game. This reads to me like an attempt to smear Epi for his incorrect LC read without making the straight up accusation of "it was a defense of a team mate".

I see now continuing in the ISO that Epi took issue with this post as well, though he attacked it from a different angle.

BR's response to his suspicion is underwhelming.

*snip*

Spoiler: show

Now that I'm all caught up, does anyone else get the feeling that Roxy could be the SK?

Just a feeling I had as I was catching up. Her tone when discussing such matters... I don't know seems a bit off.

The read on Roxy could be dead on for all I know, but the language is elite-tier vague. Mafia members would love to find the SK too, so it's noteworthy that BR joined this discussion despite having a somewhat limited focus as a baddie-hunter prior to this.

Spoiler: show

The whole time I was catching up and actually reading Roxys posts I thought it was Unfurl. While I was writing the post I noticed Unfurl was not playing. I then went back and saw it was in fact Roxy and changed the name in my post. Because of her Avatar I have two very different opinions on Roxy. Does she know something about Matt or is she a killer? By her posts I am leaning towards killer, by her voting record I am leaning towards info. What is a lady to do.

I'm willing to believe this mixup was genuine, but I'd expect it to have some impact on her read. If the read is entirely based on tone (see prior post), then the identity of the player conveying that tone should be pretty critical. She might have forced herself to maintain her read.

Spoiler: show

No, BR I do not think Roxy is the SK. I have a hard time believing someone who knows her like you do would actually think that she would Nk a fairly new player to the site N1.

I agree with the kill inheriting discussed. If I had one faction killing one night, and the second another, whatever team left would inherit the kill regardless of size. I think I've seen it eliminated, but this is most likely imo

I should probably just be lynched because I deserve to die on account of missing the vote and all.

I think that is a bit narrow minded. I wouldn't knock her off the list just because of a night one kill.

I must admit I have no idea who was killed night one. I decided to move forward to keep up with the game as it is playing out.

I like your soft defend coupled with a soft accuse. Well played.

I see how you think you deserve to die, but I deserve to die because I missed a lynch and then didn't complete my punishment.

Throws shade at splints for "soft defending" Roxy, which is an interesting accusation if she thinks of Roxy as a SK candidate and not a mafia candidate.

Spoiler: show

I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

You are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill. The post was designed to get Roxy in here so I could have a more solid read on her. Instead I have her knight riding in here on her white horse. What should I make of that Splints? Now my post is meaningless for what it was designed to do. I guess I will put a big ? mark beside her and read more up on you.

Okay, I outright don't believe the highlighted sentence. I think BR was genuinely trying to generate lynch-inclined pressure on Roxy as a SK suspect -- and that she'd claim it merely for pressure's sake is a bad look.

*snip*

[RadicalFuzz]

I asked both J3 and Wilgy questions about each other. J3 responded while Wilgy did not. My best guess as for Wilgy's reaction if he was scum with J3 would be to coordinate responses.

It's an extremely minor thing, and can honestly be interpreted either way, but I find it interesting nonetheless.

J3, as I recall, you were confident that Mac was town. The tone I was getting was that of more confidence than most of your other statements.

It's not strange with regards to you answering the question, rather that one of two people asked did and the other did not.

The surprise at your confidence in Wilgy is the same as your surprise at your Mac stance. I thought you had expressed concern that Wilgy was more concerned with putting up fancy graphs or charts that appear to contain a lot of information while avoiding giving reads or conclusions based off that information. Also I strongly dislike his attempted jump on me for using the word "conclusions" earlier. He knows better than that.

Why Straw?

Very well Mac, I'll get my hands dirty. It's late, and I won't be around for very long tomorrow, but Monday shall see if it is fruitful.

I'd give all three to you and give the beer you didn't drink to Wilgy.

[Matt]

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

Very odd things, would you like to elaborate on this?

Okay

Can someone explain to me how to play this game? I actually have no idea.

You said this on Day Four. Day 1 - 3 you voted in lynches. I wasn't in the RYM thread, but I assume you voted in the Day 0 poll. You weren't punished or ever mod-killed for inactivity so I assume you sent in all of your night PMs...yet you have "no idea" how to play...and that's despite you saying you've "got this" in the sign up thread. That...is odd.

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

Do you mean the thread text?

What else could he have meant? Odd.

Also, Strawhenge, I find it amusing that we're rivals on here but kinda friendly on RYM.

Odd

[JaggedJimmyJay]

J3, as I recall, you were confident that Mac was town. The tone I was getting was that of more confidence than most of your other statements.

I am as confident as I can reasonably be when so many people are vocal about disagreeing with me. I cannot help but second guess myself at least a little bit considering that.

The surprise at your confidence in Wilgy is the same as your surprise at your Mac stance. I thought you had expressed concern that Wilgy was more concerned with putting up fancy graphs or charts that appear to contain a lot of information while avoiding giving reads or conclusions based off that information. Also I strongly dislike his attempted jump on me for using the word "conclusions" earlier. He knows better than that.

I have not made this accusation at any point. Other people have.

Why Straw?

I think that he's put forth a great and genuine-seeming effort when he has been available, and when he hasn't he's still played loosely enough that I don't think he has anything to be nervous about. There's also an emotional side to reading Strawhenge that is quite unique to him. This is a meta thing that I wouldn't expect you to understand, but it's happening in my brain and it affects my read.

[Matt]

I don't see anything wrong with Black Rock actually. It would be easy for me to just agree here but nothing she is saying is pinging me at all.

Why say that in the underline? Are you letting the thread know how civvie you are because you could've easily agreed on a (in your opinion) bogus case against Black Rock, but instead, chose to go the noble route and actually give your true opinion?

[seaside]

Oh! And sorry for the multipost. I forgot this:

Side note: I usually have a couple of biggish blocks of time to mafia per day, if I'm lucky, but limited ability to hop on and off. I read through and reply to everything interesting I see in my catch up. So if my thoughts appear disjointed, that's why. Hope it's not making m thought trains too hard to follow.

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

If he's gone for 3-4 days, won't he just be modkilled for inactivity anyway?

lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

are we assuming drugs also voted for the person the next day?

If you were Drugs, would you vote for the player you tossed two extra votes on?

i have been absent throughout yesterday, so i don't know how the votes went onto both espers and devin in real time
but say for example if jjj was drugs, he voted early, gave drugs to devin the night before. then realised that it was going to be close, he could either change his vote to ensure that devin gets lynched, making it look suss with the late vote change
or he could of just left it on, knowing that espers getting lynched on a cointoss would also work for scum. or he could of communicated with his scum mates to jump onto devin to make the numbers?

As to the bolded, seaside, you're acting like you KNOW espers is civ here. Why?

I think him posting yesterday, presumably to avoid a modkill, makes him looks way worse, personally. I'll probably vote him again if he isn't modkilled.

no i don't know he is
but i'm making an assumption based on the fact that he would of had to of been around to pm hosts to do a night task like drugs, the way he was given his warning sounded like he hadn't made contact with anyone or done anything on this site for nearly 3 days. i mean he could also be scum. i still believe either jjj, espers or diiny is scum. i guess espers is the one i least suspect now.

[seaside]

I get those names from the people who voted for Ricochet on day 3? the one with the poll about who long con team mate. Whichever day that was.
These are the people who voted for him

JaggedJimmyJay, Rbzmncaeaei, Diiny, Golden, seaside, espers

Now RBZ and Golden have been killed.
I know i'm not scum.
Which leaves JJJ, Diiny and Espers.

I don't quite understand the rationale here. Your suspects, according to this, stem out of my D3 wagon, although you also contributed to that wagon, by clearly thinking I am bad. How can you simply exclude yourself from this, via simple civ claim, and treat the others suspicious for a lynch that you also endorsed?

This is the only problem or thing you are going to raise over this? of course if someone else was going to follow this theory (which no one seems to care about tbh ) then i should be included. but why should i include myself when i know that i am town? this seems like such a knit picking thing to have a problem with. The way you word it too, 'my D3 wagon'. I obviously made a mistake in voting for him. i've made many mistakes in this game. but what you are trying to twist here ain't one.

i have been absent throughout yesterday, so i don't know how the votes went onto both espers and devin in real time
but say for example if jjj was drugs, he voted early, gave drugs to devin the night before. then realised that it was going to be close, he could either change his vote to ensure that devin gets lynched, making it look suss with the late vote change
or he could of just left it on, knowing that espers getting lynched on a cointoss would also work for scum. or he could of communicated with his scum mates to jump onto devin to make the numbers?

Is there a scenario in which you wouldn't be suggesting I'm scum right now?

i don't think everyone in that three scum or acting extremely scummy as such. just due to my own research and piecing things together, i think it is highly likely that one of the three is scum. but how you have been acting now towards it. I do have a strong scum read on you

[TheFloyd73]

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

Very odd things, would you like to elaborate on this?

Okay

Can someone explain to me how to play this game? I actually have no idea.

You said this on Day Four. Day 1 - 3 you voted in lynches. I wasn't in the RYM thread, but I assume you voted in the Day 0 poll. You weren't punished or ever mod-killed for inactivity so I assume you sent in all of your night PMs...yet you have "no idea" how to play...and that's despite you saying you've "got this" in the sign up thread. That...is odd.

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

Do you mean the thread text?

What else could he have meant? Odd.

Also, Strawhenge, I find it amusing that we're rivals on here but kinda friendly on RYM.

Odd

1. No comment.

2. I have preference for things to be specific. Do you have a problem with that? If so, please PM me.

3. Really? How is that odd?

[MacDougall]

I don't see anything wrong with Black Rock actually. It would be easy for me to just agree here but nothing she is saying is pinging me at all.

Why say that in the underline? Are you letting the thread know how civvie you are because you could've easily agreed on a (in your opinion) bogus case against Black Rock, but instead, chose to go the noble route and actually give your true opinion?

Yeah but you make it sound so terrible.

I don't think the case is bogus. I just don't think it's damning.

[Matt]

1. No comment.

2. I have preference for things to be specific. Do you have a problem with that? If so, please PM me.

3. Really? How is that odd?

1. Um really? Because that's like the oddest thing.

2. The first sentence would've sufficed.

3. You must've thought so yourself because when questioned on it before, you stated...

Floyd - How are you and Strawhenge "rivals"?

Rivals is probably the wrong word to use. I was trying to point out his competitiveness.

Floyd - What do you make of Strawhenge's back and forth flippity flippiter floppy on you?

[DrWilgy]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

[TheFloyd73]

1. No comment.

2. I have preference for things to be specific. Do you have a problem with that? If so, please PM me.

3. Really? How is that odd?

1. Um really? Because that's like the oddest thing.

2. The first sentence would've sufficed.

3. You must've thought so yourself because when questioned on it before, you stated...

Floyd - How are you and Strawhenge "rivals"?

Rivals is probably the wrong word to use. I was trying to point out his competitiveness.

Floyd - What do you make of Strawhenge's back and forth flippity flippiter floppy on you?

Actually, I have a question for you. What gave you the right to interrogatively target myself specifically?

[Matt]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I don't have a clue, but I will say, last night's events (or rather non events) didn't make me feel any better about MacD.

Wilgy - What are your thoughts on Floyd, Bullzeye, and Strawhenge? If you've made a recent post about them, you can direct me there.

Linki - Floyd I am playing a game of Mafia, and I have the right to interrogate anyone, as you have the right to do the same. Now then, please answer my first question that you originally answered "No comment", please answer why you've voted for the players you've voted for during the Day phases, please tell me your opinion of the player "Strawhenge".

[TheFloyd73]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I don't have a clue, but I will say, last night's events (or rather non events) didn't make me feel any better about MacD.

Wilgy - What are your thoughts on Floyd, Bullzeye, and Strawhenge? If you've made a recent post about them, you can direct me there.

Linki - Floyd I am playing a game of Mafia, and I have the right to interrogate anyone, as you have the right to do the same. Now then, please answer my first question that you originally answered "No comment", please answer why you've voted for the players you've voted for during the Day phases, please tell me your opinion of the player "Strawhenge".

I believe that I have previously stated about the mental shit was going through around that time. Please PM me if you wish to have more details.

[MacDougall]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I am very sure.

[Matt]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I am very sure.

So Epi's the SK, and you're on the Mafia? Or is it the other way around?

Floyd - I don't know how to respond to that. Was that an answer to all three of my questions or just one? I'm trying to be delicate here, I honestly don't know what to say.

Strawhenge - Tomorrow I'll be making a post about your flip floppiness on Floyd as well as what looks to be a directly hypocritical play by you in the game, which I don't understand at all. You've been warned! (commence laughter now...don't worry Strawhenge, usually when I suspect someone, the town disagrees)

[MacDougall]

How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I am very sure.

So Epi's the SK, and you're on the Mafia? Or is it the other way around?

[bcornett24]

I'll be playing catch up tomorrow I have over 30 pages to read. I have quickly looked over the results of the day lynch and the night results. I also saw the huge Iso of me. I'll be commenting on all of this here in about 8 hours.

In the mean time JJJ

You are scum, evidence shall be presented shortly! Prepare yourself!

[Ricochet]

Wow, a few of you really liked quoting my big post in its entirety all over again. I'm not opposed to snipping that down to the parts you want to talk about, you know? Or, if not, just put it in a url link.

Don't you have a townread on MacDougall, Jay? Why is he not on that list?

This is not a revealing response to your question.

I don't understand this response. What's not revealing to MM's question? Why would you not put in a "don't lynch" list a strong townread - that you strongly defended to the point of others having to prove to you the opposite - such as the one you had on MacDougall?

It would be impossible for me to refute his post. His post is an explanation of things that occurred that concludes with him believing I am scum. It is still largely driven by a belief that LC requested to be bussed.

If a guy goes to lengths like that to come up with a scum read to validate his gut read then what can I do aside from say no to it?

I will point out that his post begins with a suggestion that we change where we are looking and then declares me scum. Pretty sure players have been looking at me for days.

My vote is epi. I am convinced that epi has a killing role. If you want to not look silly as per your earlier question to me then you should take him off your wont lynch list.

I will continue to make a mix of serious posts and joke posts until my demise. But don't let epi get near lylo.

Heh, I see you going to great lengths to banalize what I did.

"Explanation of things that occured that concludes with him believing I am scum"?

Firstly, that's how I do reads, I work with the material provided by a player's history of posts. But you make it sound like a huge leap, with a gap in between, between compiling the evidence and giving the verdict. There is no such gap in my reads there. It's very clear how, after compiling the evidence, I comment on how it makes you (or any of the players I mentioned) look; even on a ante-LC-lynch, post-LC-lynch basis, in fact.

"If a guy goes to lengths like that to come up with a scum read to validate his gut read"

Where did I say I have a gut read on you? In my fact, if anything was gut all game so far from me about you, it has been that you are very town, especially for your antagonism on LC, until I revised everything you did and it proves that your alleged brave hunt on LC is shallow, that you took the laurels after his lynch and that your subsequent votes don't look very good either. Add to all this that LC, on his lynch day (a day in which he was clearly not invested in anything except saving himself, he didn't leave a single trail of approval or dissent concerning the second wagon on b24 that could have potentially saved him, etc.), came up with a weaksauce suspicion on you and it's all clear distancing, so that you look best in the aftermath. There's no gut in that, I clearly made a read on you and you come out bad.

"I will point out that his post begins with a suggestion that we change where we are looking and then declares me scum. Pretty sure players have been looking at me for days."

Trivializing my stance once again. The "change where we look" part is perfect, but again you make it sound like there's a gap between that stance and my verdict on you, which there isn't, plus you leave out the part where the true meaning of "change where we look" is also to be definitive in our actions, at the end of the lynch, instead of resorting to the same tactic that brought us not only three mislynches for, but even second or third wagons that proved also civilian.

D3 we went for LC defenders must be scum. You endorsed this. Golden basically outed himself as civ with the lynch result, Sorsha was second wagon and would later flip civ.
D4 we went for let's keep the path on Sorsha, since we didn't on D3. You endorsed this. Sorsha was lynched, flipped civ, Devin was second wagon and would later flip civ.
D5 we went for let's keep the path on Devin, since we didn't on D4. You had defended Devin on D4, so you chose to look elsewhere, for consistency (being involved in a case against you also being natural incentive). Devin was lynched with extra vote manipulation, flipped civ, the top lynch would have also flipped civ.

To all this, yes, I am saying "we change where we are looking" meaning we also consider changing where we are voting. Because the path above is clearly not leading to any good results.

All of this was very clear in my post, but you make it sounds like puff and take the "if it's puff, why should I bother saying anything to it" convenient stance.

Don't you have a townread on MacDougall, Jay? Why is he not on that list?

Reads change. Fools stick to their day 2 reads. What a bizarre and naive question to ask.

What an odd post. First of all, answering on JJJ's behalf. Secondly, implying JJJ's townread on you changed over time, when it was clearly still strong on Night 5. I inquired him on this.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly.

This is Night 5. So is JJJ a fool for sticking to his longtime read, is what you're saying? Or what are you saying?

...Which, uh.... Anyone remember when Mac called for an entire day to focus on SK-hunting?

His reply when I asked him about this and about keeping the focus on hunting the mafia team as well as sort of "Righty-ho".

He also:

- wanted seaside lynched for him being expendable, even if town, because of his antics
- wanted Sorsha lynched for a sort of "leap of faith" read out of her, even if she'd flip town; that mislynch clearly didn't lead anywhere and neither did Mac return with his thoughts on what "Sorsha flipping civ" helped open the game up with

Could not possibly be.

Wrong answer.

MACDOUGALL

Uhh what the fuck. There is no right answer then. You are a hack.

Yeah I'm still reading TownDougall here. Shrug.

BLACK ROCK

See you after Mac flips mafia. Take your best anti-firestorm cloak out of the closet.

Epi, do you think that the more recent huge post ricochet made is also another "big ass post of nothing"? How many people actually clicked on that ridiculous image link? I look at that image link and it says nothing to me but "check out how much effort I've put in."

This one. It's such a wonderful scum post to make in a thread full of lurkers and people who are struggling to keep up. I've read it three times now and I can't even make sense of why he bothered to make it aside from to come off like he's making an effort.

"Hey check out the dude making effort posts, definite townie, oh and hey he included A TABLE!"

I get the exact same willies from Wilgy. Probably because I have been victimised by this kind of bullshit before.

This is so cute.

First off, buddying with the player you strongly feel is the SK and want lynched? Heh. "Hey Epi, how about those Rico posts? Whole lotta nothing, just like you said, eh? Right? Right? Right?"

Also yeah, ask the guy who, aside that one time in which he called a few assessment of mine "big post of nothing" and hasn't touched upon my reads or activity since, except for having me on and off in his baddie list.

Second, you clearly must be out of ideas if you keep going to such length to make my read on you sound like that and deflect everything in this manner.

I'm familiar with other cultures using the "Too Much Work" tag, so it doesn't surprise me you'd go for something like that, but this is not what I'm doing. If you're seriously implying I do empty wall-o-post as a habit or tactic, you either clearly don't know me or you have evidence which I'm now dying to find out what it is is, because, spoiler, there isn't any.

What's so ridiculous about my table? It's an extension of my previous reads based on LC interactions with players and players interactions with LC. The table clearly recaps how things stand in that regard.

Aaaand there's comes the OMGUS as well. I'm the scum for making reads and trying to blind the poor, lurking, struggling civilians of TH-ville. Trololol.

My analysis is nothing like Wilgy's. They're clear cut reads.

So let's recap your big defense against me:

-- I'm making leaps from posting post history evidence to making scum verdicts, with nothing in between
-- I'm making leaps from inviting players to change the course of the hunt mentality to making scum verdicts, with nothing in between
-- I continue making big post of nothings.
-- My tables are ridiculous.
-- I'm trying to blind the civs with making big posts, big reads, big efforts.

The post above interest me to. Why would he say "I don't trust the SK at all". Wouldn't that go without saying? I think trusting the SK infers more of a "trusting the SK" to make the right kills. Which is a far more scum mentality. Townies lynch, scum kill. Trusting the SK seems like a scum mentality to me.

I was clear before on finding the SK just as much an enemy as the mafia, whereas others have taken the "yeah, but SK is also an anti-mafia agent and not a lynch priority" or "SK could work with the civilians in his interests" stance. It's good that you said trusting the SK is a scum mentality, considering I said I don't trust him, so I don't know what you're trying to spin here.

What I meant was that, despite there being some tactical value in lynching you on D7 - because, with a N7 skip (if Memories Can't Wait is still alive), it would put you and your team in misery until you'd be able to kill again on N9 at the earliest, I still don't believe the SK has made anti-mafia kill moves so far, so I don't like the idea of letting him roam on his own during N6 and N8. Plus, and you've made a nice gesture to take this away from context, I don't want any more mislynches either.

[fingersplints]

When I want maturity lessons, Russ, I will get them from someone who isn't such a hypocrite. Your posts are so contradictory it would be funny if I wasn't so angry.

I've asked to be modkilled. Shit like this isn't fun to read and not worth my time. Vote russ[/u] you may say I am crying about how others aren't playing the game right but I've never said anything if the sort just that I don't like being ignored and it's rude to completely ignore replacements. Cause it is. You on the other hand have made it out that I'm not playing right by not posting more or mentioning every other player. i haven't attacked every player who has suspected me. I'm pretty sure I suspected BR first before she even mentioned me. Remember I was "making a mountain out of a molehill" about her Roxy comments. Keep defending BR though. Hopefully more of your teammates follow your bad play and you can lead us to them.

[Ricochet]

MacDougall

Has seaside posted anything D6? I see a vote on JJJ. Sure, I remember him drumming on JJJ, Diiny and espers (now confirmed civ), but why JJJ over Diiny? Why not come in and address some issues, too?

[seaside]

MacDougall

Has seaside posted anything D6? I see a vote on JJJ. Sure, I remember him drumming on JJJ, Diiny and espers (now confirmed civ), but why JJJ over Diiny? Why not come in and address some issues, too?

I'm guessing you haven't read this very page before posting as I've already made 2 posts on it

[Ricochet]

Indeed I missed them. My apologies.

[MacDougall]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

[Ricochet]

Also, you seem to have attributed a post of mine (the one about D3 wagon on me) to JJJ.

[MacDougall]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam non mattis metus, id pharetra quam. Maecenas posuere elementum viverra. Donec eleifend bibendum aliquam. In et ultricies quam, ac consectetur metus. Ut congue sapien dolor, in pulvinar nisl viverra non. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Praesent neque nisi, ultricies ac mauris vel, eleifend posuere enim. In maximus magna mauris, ac egestas felis suscipit sit amet. Curabitur nec eros sem. Suspendisse potenti. Etiam suscipit volutpat dui, nec molestie mi dapibus sed.

Nunc tristique porttitor nunc condimentum vulputate. Sed laoreet erat sit amet ex iaculis tristique. Morbi tincidunt nulla rhoncus magna volutpat rhoncus. Duis in sem est. Nullam porta ullamcorper nisi, at consectetur dolor dapibus ac. Integer vestibulum ipsum eget tortor pretium facilisis. Phasellus a odio sed quam bibendum placerat vel ut mauris. Aliquam et orci vel odio convallis dictum id sed est. Curabitur bibendum quam nisi. Donec ac augue metus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Donec ultricies faucibus pellentesque.

Sed nunc odio, venenatis eu erat in, congue iaculis neque. Mauris id nisl justo. Sed pulvinar arcu ac velit condimentum eleifend. In consectetur purus lacus, a varius enim feugiat et. Donec cursus consectetur tellus sit amet aliquet. Proin a massa sit amet nunc posuere dapibus. Maecenas pulvinar justo nulla, ut lacinia nibh sollicitudin sed. Etiam aliquet felis a arcu lobortis sollicitudin. Sed ut tempor magna. Sed non lorem non elit egestas consectetur. Cras quis quam ut magna luctus molestie ac ut elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur id felis et tellus hendrerit tempor. Nunc euismod erat lorem, sit amet congue nunc pharetra et. Integer diam urna, interdum in erat id, rutrum egestas erat.

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And with that I present my case for Ricochet being scum.

[MacDougall]

Maybe if I use some superliminal tactics you guys might get the picture here.

Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. Lynch Epignosis or you will die. MacDougall is not scum. MacDougall is not scum.

[Ricochet]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

[Ricochet]

Wow, talk about a meltdown.

[MacDougall]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure someone else said that not snipping posts was annoying before.

If you want me to reply to your false case on me at least do me the kindness of summarising your points down to a digestible size.

linki: Dude don't banalise my awesome posts.

[MacDougall]

Hey seaside are you gonna get up at 6.30am and watch Hayne plane?

[Ricochet]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure someone else said that not snipping posts was annoying before.

If you want me to reply to your false case on me at least do me the kindness of summarising your points down to a digestible size.

linki: Dude don't banalise my awesome posts.

I have no issues with quotes being extracted from my posts, if context is preserved, especially if I made a multiple-topic post. But com'on, you basically hit del on the whole thing.

I was also moreover referencing the Syndicate mentality that if you snip and decontextualize, you'll probably get eyeballed.

I'm sorry, but no. You have my reads and the points I'm making out of them can actually be extracted. If you would have said that your issue is the post length and verbosity, we could have worked on improving the customer service, but you didn't. You instead were more keen on making my reads on you sound like they're:

-- banal
-- big chunk of nothing
-- scum tactic to seduce the civ crowd
-- "bullshit"
-- "false case"

You want a fresh start after calling shit on my reads in such manner as above? Heh.

[MacDougall]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure someone else said that not snipping posts was annoying before.

If you want me to reply to your false case on me at least do me the kindness of summarising your points down to a digestible size.

linki: Dude don't banalise my awesome posts.

I have no issues with quotes being extracted from my posts, if context is preserved, especially if I made a multiple-topic post. But com'on, you basically hit del on the whole thing.

I was also moreover referencing the Syndicate mentality that if you snip and decontextualize, you'll probably get eyeballed.

I'm sorry, but no. You have my reads and the points I'm making out of them can actually be extracted. If you would have said that your issue is the post length and verbosity, we could have worked on improving the customer service, but you didn't. You instead were more keen on making my reads on you sound like they're:

-- banal
-- big chunk of nothing
-- scum tactic to seduce the civ crowd
-- "bullshit"
-- "false case"

You want a fresh start after calling shit on my reads in such manner as above? Heh.

So you have no desire to allow me to defend myself without having to spend 35 minutes reading your rewrite of Crime and Punishment. Okay that's cool.

[MacDougall]

My friend Rico. Can I call you Rico? Rico baby, I genuinely just can't be bothered reading your second huge MacDougallcentric post and I took the opportunity to amuse myself with some comedy posts rather than give myself an aneurysm and get myself all worked up reading it. I expect others will just skim it or not read it and put their vote on me though. Especially the actual scum (and Epignosis and Matt for sure will come in here and put their votes on me) Did I genuinely offend you? The way you quoted bullshit there makes me feel like that might have hurt your feelings. Rico, friend, confidante, I'm not here to harm, maim or offend. I'm here to catch scum.

Now, what time is it where you are? Beer time here. Care to talk this over, over a frosty cold beer?

[Ricochet]

snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure someone else said that not snipping posts was annoying before.

If you want me to reply to your false case on me at least do me the kindness of summarising your points down to a digestible size.

linki: Dude don't banalise my awesome posts.

I have no issues with quotes being extracted from my posts, if context is preserved, especially if I made a multiple-topic post. But com'on, you basically hit del on the whole thing.

I was also moreover referencing the Syndicate mentality that if you snip and decontextualize, you'll probably get eyeballed.

I'm sorry, but no. You have my reads and the points I'm making out of them can actually be extracted. If you would have said that your issue is the post length and verbosity, we could have worked on improving the customer service, but you didn't. You instead were more keen on making my reads on you sound like they're:

-- banal
-- big chunk of nothing
-- scum tactic to seduce the civ crowd
-- "bullshit"
-- "false case"

You want a fresh start after calling shit on my reads in such manner as above? Heh.

So you have no desire to allow me to defend myself without having to spend 35 minutes reading your rewrite of Crime and Punishment. Okay that's cool.

Defend yourself against my read, I don't see the issue. It's not Ulysses, I have three paragraphs on you, comprised of:

-- thorough history check
-- intermediary thoughts on how the history makes you look
-- conclusion

Extract the second and third and start defending. It's literally all in there.

What I don't have desire is being amiable with you with a tl;dr version after you've shit to such extent and in such flippant way on my reads, my read skills and my read-making style, altogether.

Considering that I've made reads on others, not just you, and will continue making reads on others, you're creating a precedent for everyone to "defend" themselves as "aww rico can't you please put that in, like, three sentences". Do you really think everyone will have or have had issues with the way I do reads? Nah, this is pure deflection and dissing, coming from you.

Also Crime and Punishment is pretty good, once you stop failing to move past the 20 pages - which I did the first three times when I was younger.

[Ricochet]

My friend Rico. Can I call you Rico? Rico baby, I genuinely just can't be bothered reading your second huge MacDougallcentric post and I took the opportunity to amuse myself with some comedy posts rather than give myself an aneurysm and get myself all worked up reading it. I expect others will just skim it or not read it and put their vote on me though. Especially the actual scum (and Epignosis and Matt for sure will come in here and put their votes on me) Did I genuinely offend you? The way you quoted bullshit there makes me feel like that might have hurt your feelings. Rico, friend, confidante, I'm not here to harm, maim or offend. I'm here to catch scum.

Now, what time is it where you are? Beer time here. Care to talk this over, over a frosty cold beer?

No, I am not offended. I quoted bullshit, not because I'm irked or anything, but because that's what you claimed my read will show up as, after you get lynched. I have no issue with you claiming towniness, but I have absolute trust it won't happen and you'll flip mafia. Simple as that.

Don't read my posts, there's nothing compulsory about that, after all. It wasn't even so much a second spin on you, as much as a rebuttal to you calling my initial reads banal and empty.

I do rebuttals where rebuttals are need, always have, always will.

Same as ... what was it again?

[seaside]

Hey seaside are you gonna get up at 6.30am and watch Hayne plane?

i'll be awake then but going to work

[seaside]

Also, you seem to have attributed a post of mine (the one about D3 wagon on me) to JJJ.

really?