[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[DrWilgy]

Let's talk about Dr. Wilgy then.

By all means, let's talk about me! Why does someone else need to lead the discussion though?

And your refusal to answer questions excuse is pucky, my question was asked 1 week ago, and you didnt answer till yesterday. I made it very clear for about 3 days that you missed it, and gave you multiple chances to go back and answer it.

When I quoted my own question, you stated something on the lines of "why are we back at sorsha?" If we are "back" at sorsha, how can catching up be relevant? It's clear you had already read through when the question was asked, yet you still blame the size and speed of this game for not responding.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Marsh, I think yours is the worst vote on my wagon. You've condemned me without bothering to engage me and give me any opportunity. I doubt town Marsh treats me this way.

Also Jay, if you don't mind. Could you explain why my vote is the "worst" on your wagon?

I understand why Epignosis's vote doesn't look bad. He started the day off with a small case and a reason for his vote. However, what about the other three votes: Elohcin, seaside, and TheFloyd?

seaside has been suspicious of me for days. It's all over his posts.

Elohcin's vote is annoying and not great, but she's already made it clear that she hasn't really kept up.

Floyd's vote is gross and I called him bad too.

I haven't built a case against you because I haven't analyzed you. I've called you bad in GTH reads, explanations are not always going to accompany GTH reads. It's gut. It's not a meta read of you either, and nor was my read on Mac primarily about meta.

I'll analyze you tonight if time permits before my head is removed from my body.

[bcornett24]

Let's talk about Dr. Wilgy then.

By all means, let's talk about me! Why does someone else need to lead the discussion though?

And your refusal to answer questions excuse is pucky, my question was asked 1 week ago, and you didnt answer till yesterday. I made it very clear for about 3 days that you missed it, and gave you multiple chances to go back and answer it.

When I quoted my own question, you stated something on the lines of "why are we back at sorsha?" If we are "back" at sorsha, how can catching up be relevant? It's clear you had already read through when the question was asked, yet you still blame the size and speed of this game for not responding.

Who said somebody else is leading it i already have a draft saved I am on mobile right now. I will continue when I get home in an hour or so. I can't manage the copy paste work from mobile.

Quote me a place in which I have refused to answer questions. I would love to see this.

Here is the question series I think you are referencing I quoted them along with my responses.

Hey bcornett, feel like answerin my question now?

What was your question? Remind me please.

I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Not tunneling, just asking and pointing out things of importance. Luv ya bruh <3

Ok then, lets set up a chain of events, based on Sorsha crumbs.

When Sorsha flips baddie, who would you vote the following day?

When Sorsha flips civ, who would you vote the following day?

Generating rainbow lists for both if Sorsha is bad or civ would be a good thing as well... Maybe abit much to ask for though.

Bcornett are you bad?

Why are we back to sorsha, or is this just part of the quote and you randomly asked me if i was bad after?

No I'm not bad are you?

Why are we back to sorsha, or is this just part of the quote and you randomly asked me if i was bad after?

No I'm not bad are you?

I am not. Why did it take you so long to respond even though I was listed as a sketchy sketch on your rainbow list?

What are your thoughts on what Fuzz said about me?

Because life is exhausting and shitty at times.

Once again I am way behind ~30 pages, if you want my thoughts on specific things please include them in the question otherwise Im digging through thirty pages Im already currently trying to catch up on to read an exchange.

If you want a detailed answer ask a question that provokes a response that is more than one word, this is not a yes no questioare. When I asked you to quote your question that is the response you gave me. If there was something more pressing or another questions please ask. But don't give me shit about not answering questions when you asked me if I'm bad.

The bit about sorta appeared to be addressed to Mac unless I'm mistaken.

[RadicalFuzz]

bcornett I think you're bad because you seem to have very selective question answering skills. Questions that have been asked for days, not just once or twice, are hard to miss.

The only thing that leaps to mind for J3 downplaying or avoiding evidence is his apparent inability to discuss Wilgy. If I recall correctly he made a post asking for a rundown of the suspicions against him and then hushed up about it.

What great reasoning! There is no way it has anything to do with the thread having 5000 posts in it and having to catch up on ~20 pages several times.

You being so behind doesn't help your argument, surprisingly enough, because those questions actually were way back there in the thread. Wilgy is not exaggerating when he says he asked you a full week ago. Converting for the 48/24 cycle, let's call that Night 4 or Day 5.

J3 still has mentioned the case against Wilgy once, I believe, to state that he doesn't see it and ask what the reasons for lynching him are. No response to my answer shortly after.

Also I'm not getting enough flak for suggesting a Chinese fire drill at end of day yesterday. That looks objectively horrible, but I'm a town read across the board in our little experiment. Epi, I believe, was the only one to even mention it.

[bcornett24]

So all of those questions inside the quote from Mac, are directed at me and not at Mac?

[bcornett24]

I am caught up, I finished skimming the 30 pages I needed to last night. There is no doubt I have missed stuff as detail reading would take more time than I currently have.

What is a Chinese Fire Drill?

I wont be able to finish my iso of DrWilgy until after work tonight as there isnt enough time.

[Matt]

3J - I've been hesitant to put my vote on you because quite simply, I think of you as an expert player and I don't think you would paint Mac town all game knowing if he flipped Mafia, you'd be pretty much done.

However, it looks like you're getting lynched today.

I'd like you to, if you would, let the town know who you think we should go after following today's lynch. Focus on one or two names and let us know, man, cuz remember, all the civvies win (dead or alive) if the town wins the game.

Also, I don't know if you ever talked about this...

After Mac's lynch, I posted how I thought it was super questionable how Strawhenge referred to Mac as your and Motel Room's "scum buddy", yet he refused to put a vote on Mac. What are your thoughts on this?

In my super short read of you (pages 17 - 14 of your ISO), I also pointed out how way back when, you and Motel Room were questioning people who saw Mac as suspicious. I think in your G2H, you listed Motel Room as "good", and I'd like to know why.

Good luck to you today, sir. I've decided I'm not going to vote for you because I really do think you're good, however, if you want to try and get the town to get on board with a Floyd lynch, I'm down.

[Matt]

Switching my vote back to Floyd

[RadicalFuzz]

The term Chinese Fire Drill refers to an extremely quick wagon that forms at the end of the day, hours or sometimes even minutes before the lynch is finalized. It's most commonly used to save a player, usually a scum teammate, or to attempt to otherwise manipulate the lynch when a portion of the thread is away due to time constraints.

[bcornett24]

Rainbow Reads

Ricochet
Elohcin
Epignosis

Matt F
Strawhenge
RadicalFuzz
JaggedJimmyJay

Choutas
motel room
sig
Russtifinko
Black Rock
Metalmarsh89
Roxy

Diiny
fingersplints
seaside
Bullzeye

DrWilgy
TheFloyd73

Will be back tonight after work, not sure if it will be before or after the day ends. Until then TheFloyd73
I think Jay is town, and would prefer the Flyod Lynch over jjj.

[Matt]

bcornett

In the G2H exercise, you listed me as "bad", and yet I'm green on your rainbow read.

Explain.

[Ricochet]

Well, I'm home...

...

Ugh.

[bcornett24]

bcornett

In the G2H exercise, you listed me as "bad", and yet I'm green on your rainbow read.

Explain.

I finished catching up after the g2h exercise. Any case will have to wait until after work I need to leave in 7 mins.

[Bullzeye]

I don't really have time for mafia this week. Going to try to catch up now.

[Matt]

You said you were barely able to skim 30 pages. I went from "bad" to "green".

I'm getting real twitchy with my vote today.

[bcornett24]

@matt quick explanation: after skimming, I found that even though I do not necessarily agree to the theory and arguments you proposed, you still had made some good points, additionally several people mentioned that you often propose explanations like this, to be fair, I have done the same thing in several of the games I have played in thus far and by no means do I find it to be inherently scummy. Ill have to attempt a detailed read later if you want more as I said I skimmed around 37 pages last night, a ton to take in at once.

[bcornett24]

You said you were barely able to skim 30 pages. I went from "bad" to "green".

I'm getting real twitchy with my vote today.

I spent three hours skimming last night...after the reads...

[Matt]

Alright thanks for making the time to explain.

Just in case, I'm going to compare your rainbow read to your G2H and see if anything else looks interesting, but as of now, again thanks for making the time.

[bcornett24]

Try doing a gth exercise when you are missing 1/3 of the content, tell me reads wont change after the fact.

[bcornett24]

Alright thanks for making the time to explain.

Just in case, I'm going to compare your rainbow read to your G2H and see if anything else looks interesting, but as of now, again thanks for making the time.

Im sure some more will change after I look in depth at people. I will be doing DrWigly tonight after work. Time to go!

[Matt]

Try doing a gth exercise when you are missing 1/3 of the content, tell me reads wont change after the fact.

I'm still in the process of comparing, but wanted to come back to see if you'd replied, and this looks like a preemptive excuse as to why your reads may have totally changed. Like I said, for all I know, they're pretty much the same, but checking now.

[Matt]

bcornett's Rainbow Read side by side with G2H

Blue

Ricochet - GOOD
Elohcin - GOOD
Epignosis - GOOD

Green

Matt F - BAD
Strawhenge - GOOD
Radical Fuzz - GOOD
JJJ - GOOD

Yellow

Choutas - GOOD
motel room - GOOD
sig - GOOD
Russ - GOOD
Black Rock - GOOD
Metalmarsh - BAD
Roxy - GOOD

Orange

Diiny - BAD
splints - BAD
seaside - BAD
Bullzeye - GOOD

Red

DrWilgy - BAD
Floyd - BAD

****

Only real changes seem to be myself from "bad" to "green" (good). Metalmarsh went from "bad" to "yellow" (neutral). And Bullzeye went from "good" to "orange" (bad). There were also several other "GOOD" to "neutral", but whatevs.

Sorry BC, I'm crazy nervous about the lynch tonight.

[Elohcin]

Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

I have no suspicions of you as of yet.

Elohcin's vote is annoying and not great, but she's already made it clear that she hasn't really kept up.

I'm sorry you find my vote annoying. I have kept up actually. I admit I skim sometimes though multiple posts by the same player but I at least get the gist of what they are saying before I move on. I am not making an uninformed vote if that is what you thing.

What is a Chinese Fire Drill?

The term Chinese Fire Drill refers to an extremely quick wagon that forms at the end of the day, hours or sometimes even minutes before the lynch is finalized. It's most commonly used to save a player, usually a scum teammate, or to attempt to otherwise manipulate the lynch when a portion of the thread is away due to time constraints.

Funny, I thought it was when a driver and passengers in a car (which is stopped at a red light) quickly get out of the car, run around the car, and return to the car often switching seats.

[Bullzeye]

Bullzeye and MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

So the other person I remembered bcornett turning on at the same time as Golden did was Mac, who went from a mid-neutral/strong civ read for the pair of them to bad in Golden's eyes and second from bottom of Cornett's rainbow list within minutes. However, on closer inspection Bcor did call Mac out with a proper post just before dropping him down the list, so I'm no longer as sure. It's still a hell of a coincidence.

I would like to point out that bcornett has continued to ignore me for the past 2 days, even though I'm fully analyzed and somewhat scummy according to his list. He all he is doing is, looking at who is the topic of discussion is, clicking view in topic posts, "analyzing then" and ignoring everything else.

Yes. Looking at his posts this is a very fair judgement. Bcornett seems to make accusations based on the direction the wind is blowing and seldom follows up on them or explains his own perspective. Devin on day five looks like the only real exception to this. I think he looks very blendy and very suspicious.

Pseudo-linking of bcornett and Golden due to their mutual treatment of Mac in their rainbow lists (dropping him from town/neutral reads to scum reads). This was posted on Day 6, so I'm not sure what the significance of this observation was supposed to be.

You should know. You've read and responded to some of my points against bcornett already: I 'linked' them there because of the argument I've made that BC was trying to buddy up to Golden by echoing his views in order to look good.

Bullzeye's voting record:

Dusk 0 (as sanmeto): none
Day 1 (as sanmeto): none
Day 2: Metalmarsh89 (20)
Day 3: Russtifinko (19)
Day 4: Devin the Omniscient (23)
Day 5: Devin the Omniscient (27)
Day 6: bcornett24 (20)

The worst thing here is that both of his votes on the days of a scum lynch were inconsequential -- he was alone in both cases.

I hardly think it's worth bringing up my day 2 vote: I'd been in the game a few hours and had very little idea what was going on. I had PMed MP to ask if I'd be ok to miss the vote and he said no, so I did the only thing I could realistically think to do in the time I had left. As for the other day, I didn't have time to read and catch up so I just stuck with my initial suspicion. I hadn't even looked at who had votes until I cast my own. I've been working 8-10 hours a day this week and might be doing so next week too.

The most noteworthy takeaway for me is that Bullzeye had very little say on the matter of MacDougall in this game. This is surprising because Mac clearly put some effort into calling Bullzeye a baddie -- both gun to head and in the form of actual accusations. Mac never built a real case or truly pursued this lynch, and Bullzeye did not seem to have much to say at all about the guy repeatedly calling him scum. Curious.

See my previous post re: not having seen any suspicion of me worth taking seriously yet. Mac wasn't giving any substance to his mentions of me. Nothing to say to him really.

[Bullzeye]

I see today looks like it's coming down to JJJ or Floyd, judging off the current votes. I've had quite good feelings about JJJ all game and could see Floyd being bad. His responses to some of Matt's questions I saw during my catchup were pretty lacking. *Votes Floyd* for now at least.

[Matt]

Bullzy, why do you suppose bcornett G2H'd you as good, then rainbow read you as bad?

[Bullzeye]

Bullzy, why do you suppose bcornett G2H'd you as good, then rainbow read you as bad?

I think people know how I feel about him already. He put me down as one of the three most suspicious players in the game at one point and never explained why - leading me to assume it was because of Golden since this was around the time of that whole debacle. Perhaps the rainbow read was an attempt at remaining consistent with his prior labelling but then I dunno.

[RadicalFuzz]

Chinese Fire Drill with context to Mafia, Elo.

[seaside]

@rico I really don't understand what the fuck seaside is doing there either, I pointed it out to him I think but no reply as of yet afaik I'll be able to check soon

i was happy for either a diiny or jjj lynch over mac.
jjj lynch didn't seem to be gaining any steam, there seemed a possibility of a diiny lynch, so i decided to use jjj flip flopping to do that.
i have been looking into both you and jjj for a while now, so while the timing of my vote may seem suss, my intentions have been there all along.

[seaside]

Diiny, before Mac flipped, I started to think maybe your absence i was letting go by unchecked and putting all the suspicion on jjj because he was actually in the thread posting and there were a handful of things that just seemed off.
but since mac has flipped scum, seeing how jjj was posting, plus my theory, i am happy with a jjj lynch over you.

[sig]

I will be voting for JJJ, if he flips scum Bulls is scum for sure imo, I will be back before the end of the deadline, but I doubt I will be changing my vote.

Vote JJJ

[Diiny]

@rico I really don't understand what the fuck seaside is doing there either, I pointed it out to him I think but no reply as of yet afaik I'll be able to check soon

i was happy for either a diiny or jjj lynch over mac.
jjj lynch didn't seem to be gaining any steam, there seemed a possibility of a diiny lynch, so i decided to use jjj flip flopping to do that.
i have been looking into both you and jjj for a while now, so while the timing of my vote may seem suss, my intentions have been there all along.

But you basically adressed mac's point in a way that suggested you thought he was scummy; he said there was no counter lynch forming as proof that he was being mislynched; you rebutted that accusation. Why, if you didn't think he was scummy?

[Marmot]

bcornett I think you're bad because you seem to have very selective question answering skills. Questions that have been asked for days, not just once or twice, are hard to miss.

The only thing that leaps to mind for J3 downplaying or avoiding evidence is his apparent inability to discuss Wilgy. If I recall correctly he made a post asking for a rundown of the suspicions against him and then hushed up about it.

What great reasoning! There is no way it has anything to do with the thread having 5000 posts in it and having to catch up on ~20 pages several times.

You being so behind doesn't help your argument, surprisingly enough, because those questions actually were way back there in the thread. Wilgy is not exaggerating when he says he asked you a full week ago. Converting for the 48/24 cycle, let's call that Night 4 or Day 5.

J3 still has mentioned the case against Wilgy once, I believe, to state that he doesn't see it and ask what the reasons for lynching him are. No response to my answer shortly after.

Also I'm not getting enough flak for suggesting a Chinese fire drill at end of day yesterday. That looks objectively horrible, but I'm a town read across the board in our little experiment. Epi, I believe, was the only one to even mention it.

I don't disagree with your agenda.

[Epignosis]

I could move my vote from 3J, but I'm not finding a good enough reason to do so as yet.

[Epignosis]

At some point, bcornett24 needs to be held responsible for all the shitty lynches he's voted in early.

I don't know if something else is said about this later as I am still catching up ~20 pages behind now. But I feel the need to address this now.

This is my voting record:

Dusk 0: rundontwalk (17) and Devin the Omniscient (16)
Day 1: birdwithteeth11 (14)
Day 2: Long Con (32)
Day 3: Golden (10)
Day 4: Devin the Omniscient (15)
Day 5: Devin the Omniscient (10)
Day 6: JaggedJimmyJay (7)

This is snipped as Jay pulled my voting record and made it all nice and organized.

You are blaming me for all the lynches? I stand by all of my votes. I made a case for each of the votes I have cast with the exception of Jay on Day 6 which is after this post was made. If (I was going to ISO jay but I ended up not having time to do so. This is my bad.) After reading more I do not think that Jay is scum.

If you are going to blame me for these you can also include the huge argument that started the case against mac and my defense of sorsha.

If you wish to hold me accountable by all mean do so, but first be sure you read all of my cases regarding the votes.

I didn't blame you and only you for the lynches. I said you needed to be held responsible for the shitty lynches you voted EARLY in. Big difference.

[RadicalFuzz]

For clarity, I'm staying on Wilgy. I don't care if I'm the only one voting him.

[Diiny]

I say this as someone very close to clicking on the Jay button just to make sure everyone's in on this for the right reasons:

What makes Jay worse than anyone else who voted for me rather than MacDougall?

[Epignosis]

I say this as someone very close to clicking on the Jay button just to make sure everyone's in on this for the right reasons:

What makes Jay worse than anyone else who voted for me rather than MacDougall?

Talks too much.

[Diiny]

I say this as someone very close to clicking on the Jay button just to make sure everyone's in on this for the right reasons:

What makes Jay worse than anyone else who voted for me rather than MacDougall?

Doesn't record enough vocaroos

I agree completely

[Marmot]

For clarity, I'm staying on Wilgy. I don't care if I'm the only one voting him.

If Jay is lynched and flips bad, how would you feel about DrWilgy?

[Marmot]

I say this as someone very close to clicking on the Jay button just to make sure everyone's in on this for the right reasons:

What makes Jay worse than anyone else who voted for me rather than MacDougall?

Doesn't record enough vocaroos

I agree completely

[Diiny]

For clarity, I'm staying on Wilgy. I don't care if I'm the only one voting him.

How much of your wilgy hate is his own conduct and how much of your wilgy hate is by virtue of how happenings in the thread have reflected on him?

[motel room]

Also I'm not getting enough flak for suggesting a Chinese fire drill at end of day yesterday. That looks objectively horrible, but I'm a town read across the board in our little experiment. Epi, I believe, was the only one to even mention it.

On who? Wilgy?

[Epignosis]

The term Chinese Fire Drill refers to an extremely quick wagon that forms at the end of the day, hours or sometimes even minutes before the lynch is finalized. It's most commonly used to save a player, usually a scum teammate, or to attempt to otherwise manipulate the lynch when a portion of the thread is away due to time constraints.

So...an essentially randomized Day 6 vote that lots of people are on board with? What a primitive and disgusting practice.

[Epignosis]

I want to post this here for now:


Black Rock
1
JaggedJimmyJay (17)
4%


DrWilgy
1
RadicalFuzz (14)
4%


JaggedJimmyJay
6
Metalmarsh89 (3), Epignosis (7), seaside (9), TheFloyd73 (13), Elohcin (16), sig (23)
25%


Russtifinko
1
motel room (5)
4%


TheFloyd73
5
Choutas (10), Strawhenge (18), Matt F (20), bcornett24 (21), Bullzeye (22)
21%

[Epignosis]

Elohcin's vote is annoying and not great, but she's already made it clear that she hasn't really kept up.

I'm sorry you find my vote annoying.

I know right? Especially when there are so many other annoying things you do.
















I'll set up a pallet outside.

[motel room]

metalmarsh did you see my question to you about your Russ read?

[Epignosis]

I just remembered this. This shows the votes people (like Diiny) had at one point Day 5:

Posting this for posterity.

[Marmot]

Also, metalmarsh what's the story with your read on Russtifinko?

You voted him Day 1. Had some cases. Said he was bad later still.

DrWilgy! I have a response for you. These 6 players are bad.

• Devin the Omniscient
  MacDougal
  Russtifinko
  seaside
  Strawhenge
  TheFloyd73

Then he was on your list of Don't Lynch.

Anyway, I'm mafia'd out tonight, but I may peek back in later.

Tomorrow I'll finish my response to your BR ISO, Jay. Then I'll look at your bcornett ISO. Then I'll read the second half of Rico's novel. Just reminding myself what I plan to do here.

Also, my list of Don'tLynches

Bullzeye
Elohcin
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt F
Metalmarsh89
RadicalFuzz
Ricochet
Russtifinko

And now he's bad again in the GTH exercise. I'm trying to figure him out, what's made you change your mind at these points?

I must have missed it. But here's my answer.

I read Russti as bad early on for various reasons that I have already voiced.

Sometime around Day/Night 5, I liked his interactions, so decided I didn't want to lynch him. I honestly couldn't explain to you now why I thought that way, because I don't feel that way anymore.

On Day 6, fingersplints pointed something out that I agreed with Link. So my read changed again.

[Diiny]

All right, I'm as ready as I'll ever be for a Jay lynch.

Wouldn't be unhappy at all with Floyd dying, though.