[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes yesterday I was certain, but JJJ voting for Floyd has me doubting it. Unless of course the other leading wagons were also mafia, which they could have been and JJJ picked the player who was the best to lynch. With the whole team winning Floyd could have been a sacrifice for the mafia team. But talking like that just makes me sound crazy.

You must understand then if I perceive it to be a bit dubious that you emerged into this very Day 9 calling me mafia again, and even asserting that others are blindly following me as the mafia ring leader -- before now granting that the Floyd lynch should work in my favor to some degree. To a lot of degrees.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

Not the time, I know, but it's annoying me. What's the floyd's deal? He's posting regularly on OT as far as I can tell so he's not exactly short on time. Even if he was it's in nobody's best interest to post one off topic thing. Probably some stupid gambit.

Continues to press that issue, specifically noting that Floyd has been around to make OT posts but not relevant posts. The highlighted portion is a bit odd though. What was this about, Diiny? What gambit?

I thought it was either a stupid town gambit that revolved around being as unhelpful as possible to bait people into pushing you as the easy-lynch button, only to turn around on said button-pushers in a blaze of town glory, or a stupid scum gambit that played on floyd's newness to let him get past with the minimum of posting whatsoever. It just smelled disingenuous as fuck, so I assumed it was a gambit. And look, I was right

My confusion here is that you seemed inclined, apparently still do, to read his OT posting as a deliberate strategic maneuver as opposed to a guy just posting things because he doesn't know what else to do -- mafia or not. I am wondering if you're the disingenuous player in this exchange, because I saw nothing in Floyd's content that suggested to me he was really trying to "pull a move" on anyone.

Is mafia pretending to be town not a gambit? When it's really obvious, is it not a stupid gambit?

Some of us need to look up the definition of the word "gambit."

[Matt]

Nice result, peeps. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't vote for Floyd

3J - Do you remember a long time ago (relative to this game lol), you suspected Ricochet because at one point, Long Con states that "if either Bea or Rico turn up bad, it's time to look at the other" ? I believe you actually voted for Rico that day when you brought it up.

Well, I noticed that post just now when ISOIng you. And then I remembered Black Rock saying (twice) how much she loved Rico's "LC interactions" post.

Here are Rico's lynch votes...

Day 1 - Bea
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden
Day 4 - Devin
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh

^----He hasn't repeated a vote all game.

Also, as I've pointed out a bajillion times, Ricochet voted for Option 6 during Day 0 in the Syndicate thread, which at the time had ZERO votes. Essentially making it harder for us Syndicateers to make sure there were no ties as MP asked.

Looking over his relationship with Mac (even though he would eventually help vote Mac off the island)...

-Mac disagrees with your case on Ricochet and asks you to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead.
-Initially Mac says he doesn't like your case simply because of the "Talking Heads" lyrics...then shortly thereafter suspects Rico for "Talking Heads" lyrics
-Rico explains why he's doing those lyrics (the contest), MacD claims "oh I didn't see that"
-asks Choutas to make a case on Ricochet instead of asking the SK to kill him



What has Rico's feelings been on Floyd? I need to check that out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is mafia pretending to be town not a gambit? When it's really obvious, is it not a stupid gambit?

No, it really isn't. Scum pretending to be town is a person playing the game of Mafia just the same as a townie trying to find the scum. A "gambit" implies that a specific maneuver is being employed, perhaps with some degree of accepted risk, to gain town credit.

It's a strange word to apply to Floyd green-texting early in the game.

[Epignosis]

Nice result, peeps. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't vote for Floyd

3J - Do you remember a long time ago (relative to this game lol), you suspected Ricochet because at one point, Long Con states that "if either Bea or Rico turn up bad, it's time to look at the other" ? I believe you actually voted for Rico that day when you brought it up.

Well, I noticed that post just now when ISOIng you. And then I remembered Black Rock saying (twice) how much she loved Rico's "LC interactions" post.

Here are Rico's lynch votes...

Day 1 - Bea
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden
Day 4 - Devin
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh

^----He hasn't repeated a vote all game.

Also, as I've pointed out a bajillion times, Ricochet voted for Option 6 during Day 0 in the Syndicate thread, which at the time had ZERO votes. Essentially making it harder for us Syndicateers to make sure there were no ties as MP asked.

Looking over his relationship with Mac (even though he would eventually help vote Mac off the island)...

-Mac disagrees with your case on Ricochet and asks you to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead.
-Initially Mac says he doesn't like your case simply because of the "Talking Heads" lyrics...then shortly thereafter suspects Rico for "Talking Heads" lyrics
-Rico explains why he's doing those lyrics (the contest), MacD claims "oh I didn't see that"
-asks Choutas to make a case on Ricochet instead of asking the SK to kill him



What has Rico's feelings been on Floyd? I need to check that out.

Hey, look, stop.

Take a deep breath.

Don't go nuts.

I'm asking you to calmly examine things at a nice and easy pace.

Nice and easy.

No rush.

[Matt]

Haha. Okay Epig, nice and easy. What are your thoughts on Rico? (I swear I won't call you Mafia because of them)

[Diiny]

Is mafia pretending to be town not a gambit? When it's really obvious, is it not a stupid gambit?

No, it really isn't. Scum pretending to be town is a person playing the game of Mafia just the same as a townie trying to find the scum. A "gambit" implies that a specific maneuver is being employed, perhaps with some degree of accepted risk, to gain town credit.

It's a strange word to apply to Floyd green-texting early in the game.

Specific manouver: appear so disinterested in appearing town that you appear town
Risk: appearing so disinteresting in appearing town that you appear like you are deliberately trying to appear disinterested in being town, therefore not appearing town. also, just straight up appearing bad

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Matt, I think you're right to look more closely at Rico simply because nobody else really has. It's difficult for me to condemn Rico on those points (particularly the Day 0 vote which I think is meaningless) when he has played this game harder than maybe anyone else. His workload is a difficult mafia task, and I'm going to need a lot of solid evidence to consider him a lynch candidate today.

[Epignosis]

Haha. Okay Epig, nice and easy. What are your thoughts on Rico? (I swear I won't call you Mafia because of them)

I think that, if he's bad, he's doing a poor job. The Mafia are under 50% now, and he came out hard against one of them. I think Ricochet would be a more competent Mafia member and would prefer to preserve people and keep the numbers high.

Unlike 3J's analyses (which I've largely disagreed with), I have found much merit in Ricochet's. His conclusions mostly match my own.

With all that's happened thus far: LC, Mac, BR, Floyd...there's a wide ocean to go fishing in. My advice to you is to fish and not sit on the shore gnawing the same old meatless bone.

[sig]

As I said I could still see you as the mafia ringleader, but I will admit I fault of mine is over thinking the mafia plans and coming up with rather complex scenarios, like the one I am currently entertaining that you sacrificed Floyd, thinking about it this does seem unlikely but not impossibly. Also yes I can see why you would be dubious, but as I said there is still a chance in my mind that you're mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is mafia pretending to be town not a gambit? When it's really obvious, is it not a stupid gambit?

No, it really isn't. Scum pretending to be town is a person playing the game of Mafia just the same as a townie trying to find the scum. A "gambit" implies that a specific maneuver is being employed, perhaps with some degree of accepted risk, to gain town credit.

It's a strange word to apply to Floyd green-texting early in the game.

Specific manouver: appear so disinterested in appearing town that you appear town
Risk: appearing so disinteresting in appearing town that you appear like you are deliberately trying to appear disinterested in being town, therefore not appearing town. also, just straight up appearing bad

I'll run your comments through my internal CPU and decide on a stance in due time. I won't continue harping on what is probably not a huge point.

[Diiny]

run antivirus first, I didn't wash it before I posted it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As I said I could still see you as the mafia ringleader, but I will admit I fault of mine is over thinking the mafia plans and coming up with rather complex scenarios, like the one I am currently entertaining that you sacrificed Floyd, thinking about it this does seem unlikely but not impossibly. Also yes I can see why you would be dubious, but as I said there is still a chance in my mind that you're mafia.

There's always a chance from an honest town perspective.

I encourage you to explore the remaining game population in its entirety and come to a more complete set of reads. If you suspect me I don't fault you -- I am likely to suspect you just the same. Inspire me to budge on that read. I can be easy to convince.

[Matt]

Nice...and easy...

Ricochet's only Skittles read had LC and Mac as "green skittles" (good).

Don't worry Epig, I'm taking a breath. However, I will now ISO Rico with CTRLing Floyd.

[Epignosis]

Nice...and easy...

Ricochet's only Skittles read had LC and Mac as "green skittles" (good).

Don't worry Epig, I'm taking a breath. However, I will now ISO Rico with CTRLing Floyd.

I'm not worried, and I don't want to tell you how to go about things.

But if you'd had your way, we wouldn't have Floyd, is all.

Just a little discretion in your step is all I ask.

[Matt]

Nice...and easy...

Ricochet's only Skittles read had LC and Mac as "green skittles" (good).

Don't worry Epig, I'm taking a breath. However, I will now ISO Rico with CTRLing Floyd.

I'm not worried, and I don't want to tell you how to go about things.

But if you'd had your way, we wouldn't have Floyd, is all.

Just a little discretion in your step is all I ask.

Well, I hear ya (I really do), but if we would've had my way, we would've had Floyd days ago.

[Epignosis]

Nice...and easy...

Ricochet's only Skittles read had LC and Mac as "green skittles" (good).

Don't worry Epig, I'm taking a breath. However, I will now ISO Rico with CTRLing Floyd.

I'm not worried, and I don't want to tell you how to go about things.

But if you'd had your way, we wouldn't have Floyd, is all.

Just a little discretion in your step is all I ask.

Well, I hear ya (I really do), but if we would've had my way, we would've had Floyd days ago.

I suppose that's a fair point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Metalmarsh89 stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

Floyd is a town read.

In response to Mac condemning people for town-reading Floyd. Team mate banter?!?!

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy! I have a response for you. These 6 players are bad.

• Devin the Omniscient
  MacDougal
  Russtifinko
  seaside
  Strawhenge
  TheFloyd73

Includes Floyd in a Day 5 scumlist.

Spoiler: show

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

What do you make of The Floyd saying he and Strawhenge were rivals?

I haven't given it much attention in thread because of trying to defend my theory, but I'm curious of your opinion.

My stance for years has always been this:

I don't believe in scumslips.

I don't know what Floyd meant by "rivals", but I doubt he literally meant "I'm mafia and you're town, hahaha."

Scumslips do exist.

I expressed doubts about scumslips (I always doubt scumslips), and MM shut that down by providing an example of one from a different game.

Spoiler: show

Matt, we don't know Floyd's alignment. How has he had multiple scumslips?

And one of those "scumslips" was calling Strawhenge a rival. Wouldn't that clear Strawhenge?

Questions Matt about calling the slips "scum"slips.

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

bad

good

bad

good

good

Day 7 GTH reads, calls Floyd good. It should be mentioned that MM was the one who recommended we do GTH reads on Day 7.

Spoiler: show

Marsh, I think yours is the worst vote on my wagon. You've condemned me without bothering to engage me and give me any opportunity. I doubt town Marsh treats me this way.

Also Jay, if you don't mind. Could you explain why my vote is the "worst" on your wagon?

I understand why Epignosis's vote doesn't look bad. He started the day off with a small case and a reason for his vote. However, what about the other three votes: Elohcin, seaside, and TheFloyd?

Prods me to expand on my perspective of the people voting for me on Day 7, including Floyd.

Spoiler: show

I'm suspicious of JJJ, but between bcornett and JJJ, I'd rather have JJJ. Bcornett is the worse of two evils.

*Wilgy presses the big red button*

The bigger question is: would you rather have Floyd or Jay?

Pulls DrWilgy off of his bcornett/JJJ dichotomy and presses him into a Floyd/JJJ dichotomy.

Spoiler: show

Choutas, you're telling me that we've been reading and going back and rereading and making cases all day today, and 5 minutes before the deadline, you're going to "put your neck out" with an obscure comment that looks borderline OB?

What?

JUST TRUST ME. Seaside is town. This lynch will end up killing a townie.

This doesn't at all account for how a lynch of Jay or Floyd would result.

Honestly, if seaside flips mafia, I believe that Floyd and Jay should be cleared.

But if you're right about seaside, well I guess we'll see how things turn out first.

Suggests a mafia flip by seaside would clear Floyd and I. seaside flipped town obviously.

Spoiler: show

Night 5 posts

bcornett24- 0 posts
Bullzeye- 10 posts
Choutas- 12 posts
Diiny- 0 posts (0 posts Day 6 also)
DrWilgy- 0 posts
Elohcin- Isn't even reading the thread 3 posts
Epignosis- Count yourself if you care
JaggedJimmyJay- 14,241 posts
Matt F- 24 posts
Metalmarsh89- 24 posts
motel room- 0 posts
RadicalFuzz- 11 posts
Ricochet- 27 posts
Russtifinko- 10 posts
sig- 0 posts
Strawhenge- 2 posts
TheFloyd73- The Mountain Comes to Mohammad

Day 5:

Hey, I'm not going to be able to post here for the next 36-48 hours, as I'm travelling somewhere for a couple of days. Please forgive me (blame my parents).
I'll try and post as much as I can before I leave.

No kill.

Day 6:

I'm back from my trip

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

Poops on Epi's Night 5 post-count theory, specifically regarding Floyd's candidacy.

Spoiler: show

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

That could have been blocked and the host post would have made no mention of it. The simplest explanation is that Psycho Killer missed his PM that Night.

The simplest explanation is that TheFloyd73 didn't have the opportunity to send in a PM because he was traveling.

That's Occam's Razor.

K.

So why are you voting for him instead of the top priority of mafia?

Questions Epi for his Day 8 Floyd vote.

Spoiler: show

Good result. Nice voting Jay.

Linki: right Ricochet.

Well the "either" factor is pretty gone.

Oh, I didn't realize that Floyd being Life during Wartime cleared me as mafia.

Come again?

MM voted for seaside on Day 7 and Russ on Day 8.

~~~

The Day 8 vote is interesting, because MM had some need to play the self-preservation game which would have required a vote for Floyd. Instead he went for a third-party wagon which did have some votes but not enough to move the result. The final margin was just 1 vote between Floyd and MM, so he could have easily turned up dead given the shenanigan potential in this game. This might work against the notion of MM as the SK for obvious reasons -- I'll have to talk about that with Strawhenge. Of his Floyd-relevant content, I think the best look was probably when he forced Doc to pick between Floyd and I instead of focusing entirely on his own pet suspect (bcornett). Nothing here screams town at me though.

Am I willing to lynch this guy on Day 9? I think I could be convinced. I don't have bloodlust right now though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I forgot about this re: MM

Spoiler: show

Whats with the Google not that keeps viewing the thread?

Triple J, what's your reason for voting for Black Rock?

Here's some reasons.

Here's some more reasons.

What's your reason for voting for me?

Ugh, can't be bothered looking through your posts. Plus, what MetalMarsh sums up my thinking.

Also, Triple J, what's the heck is your comment on my RYM page about?

Which metalmarsh post is this, Floyd?

The annoyingly long one with heaps of spoilers.

Floyd justified a vote for me with MM's case against me -- which was actually a case against seaside.

I don't know how this makes me feel. Floyd knows I'm not mafia so maybe he was attempting to place the blame for my flip and responsibility for his on Marsh's shoulders, which would be a decent look. Or maybe he was throwing in support for what he thought was his team mate beefing with me.

[Marmot]

Jay, have you ISO'd Ricochet at all?

I don't believe I have since the LC interaction analyses when I pegged him as a mafia read and started a big bandwagon. I think he has provided an extremely thorough effort in most phases and I have been willing to trust that he is doing so as a townie who is motivated to win this game. I think I have a special understanding of what that looks like, but I could be wrong.

Is there something that concerns you about Rico?

His vote record is objectively horrific.

Day 1 - bea
Day 2 - DrWilgy
Day 3 - Golden (self-preservation vote)
Day 4 - bcornett
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89

Reading an already constructed ISO would be much easier than starting from scratch, so I thought I'd ask. :P

[Matt]

ISO Ricochet CTRLing Floyd

Skittle reads Floyd orange (mildly bad?) with a sarcastic "Must be town" (interesting because MacD was very suspicious of players who were saying this for real)

So are you going to give us that one read or not?

Floyd is town.

I've lost the context, but I believe this to be sarcastic.

And you may find yourself just as irked by Floyd's statement as I am. It's in complete dissonance with him doing enough in the thread to never drop under the participation score - posted at least once every Day (so within the 72 hours requirement), made ghost votes each Day (each and every one completely left field of the main topics), thus we can also assume he sent his night powers as well. This isn't cluelessness and inability to play the right way. Why didn't he take advantage of the three-Day replacement window to sub out, if he's a lone civ, swamped in RL, overwhelmed by the game?

In my experience, the popular perception would be that baddie lurkers would make their baddie teammates anxious enough for them to try to push them to participate more. But given the stage of Floyd's inactivity makes me think that, if he's bad, the team can equally suggest that he cultivates this persona further. If Floyd is bad, they can win advantadge every time the lynch goes elsewhere, postponing the eventual Day when Floyd would get lynched or removed. When that Day would come, they could also buss him hard and unanimously. Granted, if they actually attempted right now to have him stick to his thing, his "I don't know what's happening" still comes off pretty unconvincing or, at least, contradictory.

^----Ricochet, I know I'm suspecting you right now, but given what you said here, how do you feel about Floyd's voters today? (except for Eloh)

COMPLETELY UNRELATED - Btw, I happened to notice during Rico's second skittles read, Mac is once again a green skittle.

Once again, Floyd is an orange (mildly bad?) skittles read.

I noticed Floyd switching to Eloh and not giving one bit of statement on it and this is how I feel about him right about now

Floyd continues on the WTF path.

COMPLETELY UNRELATED - I noticed Ricochet did not like my "Mac is SK" theory at all and pushed against it.

I have no objections to a Floyd lynch, but if JJJ is mafia, I can't take any chances to have contributed to his counterwagon succeeding, either.

He votes Choutas on this day, completely avoiding a 3J, Floyd, or Seaside vote. Whoops! I think I get what you mean by "strong language", 3J, regarding "completely". Haha guess I do do that.

>snip<

Read
His votes are the part I like the least. They are all random up until D6, when he corrects a vote on Mac and D7, when he votes JJJ in an apologetic way, when the JJJ wagon was up at 3 or 4. MacBaddie called his voting "mimetic", but he's wrong (or deceitfully so), Floyd has never imitated, bandwagoned or coattailed (up until, I reckon, today in fact). His D1 to D4 votes are devoid of any interpretation or logic, his D5-D6 votes feels like drumming on Matt and if he's baddie, the JJJ vote feels, depending on how JJJ might flip, either like finally lunging at a victim or bussing at first response.

I find it very interesting how much conscious effort MacBaddie has put into addressing Floyd overall, and true to his role, he flip-flopped very much on the subject, from "Leave him be guys" to "ooh scum slip" and "null read" and "suddenly, an SK profiling appears". I'm also surprised of Black Rock actually making a statement herself on how to interpret Floyd's behaviour. If Floyd is bad, this is clear distancing, and Floyd's D6 mention of voting Mac, then nah, makes him look bad.

As for everything else, he hasn't been hooked to the game at all for the most part, with some semblance of an attempt to switch to a better gear during the last few Days. I'm not sure if his two notorious statements are scumslips, but I admit of not liking how much this dillema lingers without any resolve. He's frequently tell off players during rebuttals, rather than trying to set things straight, which gives me pause. The way I see it, he misinterpreted Matt's questioning as an offence to his personal issues and has since found it easy to drum on Matt being meanie and baddie and such.

IDK this feels on a very thin line between a civ game that's just unfortunately not very solid (strictly in-game speaking, I can emphatise with RL messing it up) and a potential teammate lurker, from which two out of three confirmed mafia may have taken clear distance. If I can focus on better baddie candidates after these reads, I probably would, but I also wouldn't oppose a lynch in this direction.

One thing I haven't picked up is any vouching that Floyd might be good, despite his gameplay - which makes me believe that someone like the checker didn't have any real interest either in settling things about him, or that he may have in fact done that by now and the verdict is negative.

Again, doesn't oppose a Floyd lynch, but won't vote for him.

In one of his latest posts, Rico kind of pings on sig for saying (among other things, granted) "I could go for a Floyd lynch but I'm not sure about him". Isn't this kind of what Rico has been saying???

*****

I dunno. I feel like Rico was pinged by Floyd several times in the game, and yet twice, says he doesn't object to a Floyd lynch, but won't pull the trigger himself.

As 3J said, whether Rico is mafia or not, he has put in a helluva lotta work in this game, so I think I'll need more then this to justify a Rico vote. However, I will continue to ISO Rico with CTRLing on "Long Con", "Mac", and "Black Rock"

I'm breathing, Epi, I swear! :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

motel room stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

Not the time, I know, but it's annoying me. What's the floyd's deal? He's posting regularly on OT as far as I can tell so he's not exactly short on time. Even if he was it's in nobody's best interest to post one off topic thing. Probably some stupid gambit.

I get the feeling he's in a bit over his head, our Floyd.

This is probably a soft defense of Floyd.

Spoiler: show

My first lack of inclusion was genuinely from stuff going on in my life that was messing with my head. And I will say AGAIN that if you wish to discuss this further, please PM me.

Has anyone PMed you?

Not sure if this is a pursuit of a scumslip or a means of checking up on Floyd for his game-external difficulties.

Spoiler: show

My first lack of inclusion was genuinely from stuff going on in my life that was messing with my head. And I will say AGAIN that if you wish to discuss this further, please PM me.

Has anyone PMed you?

No, not about that topic anyway. would you like to be the first?

Oh ok, like just from teammates?

I hope your head's ok now man.

Oh. Both? What did you think of Floyd's response, motel room? Was this a serious suggestion that he slipped or not?

Spoiler: show

Hello Floyd. I see you have your vote on Matt F. ok

Out of Mac or Diiny who do you think should be lynched?

Prods Floyd to pick a side in the Mac/Diiny tally duel of Day 6 while his vote was planted off-wagon.

Spoiler: show

Also, Strawhenge, I find it amusing that we're rivals on here but kinda friendly on RYM.

What. The. Fuck.

How do you know you are rivals?

Does a WTF to Floyd, but rest of game wants people to back off of him. Also, since MacD was scum himself, you'd think he'd use this post of Floyd's to completely go after him. Afterwards, he could simply say "Well you saw what he said about being rivals!!" But no, doesn't go after him.

Other people who have lightly questioned Floyd for his MULTIPLE scum slips in the game but never went after him:

Strawhenge
Motel Room

i did that thing about asking about his PMs and he fell for it but every time I try and do a trap like that in RYM I only get townies who just didnt get what i was insinuating. Also I felt bad after.

I guess Matt already asked him about the PM-slip thing. motel room asserts Floyd "fell" for it, but offers a caveat that he has bad experiences trying to lay traps like that on RYM. motel room, can you recall a specific example of a time when you laid a trap for a new player and ended up tricking a townie by mistake?

Spoiler: show

G2H on full Mafia team (assuming there are 5 left)...

Strawhenge
Floyd
Motel Room
MetalMarsh
JJJ

how does that work when we were pressuring Strawhenge to slip up?

Well, 3J said that Mac was one of his strongest town reads because it was MacD who originally went after Long Con for his Bea gambit.

Anything is possible.

I think it's more likely that you and Straw are Floyd's teammates, however, I'm not ruling JJJ out.

You're right anything is possible. I'm not in there though.

How are you so certain about Floyd?

Questions Matt for his matter-of-fact language when speaking of Floyd as a mafia member well before his role was revealed.

Spoiler: show

He's new. He's like 16 I think and he's only just discovering that people can be fake and manipulative (judging by a thread he started over in RYM). Forgive me if I don't hammer his balls for saying odd things according to the way we play this. He may well be scum but I've seen new town say things they dont understand the connotations of before in innocence.

Explains to Matt why didn't pursue Floyd's potential slip harder despite having been the origin of that slip. Suggests Floyd is young (literally, the human being you know as Floyd is 16) and is hesitant to hit him too hard for something that might have been a genuine gaffe.

Spoiler: show

Already answered on Floyd. And here's a thing, but you can try and paint it as defence of a teammate or whatever you want but I got a PM from Roxy, non-game related, about some interrogation room thing for this site. Now I don't believe people on the internet are real so I rarely engage but perhaps Floyd did?

Or perhaps not, maybe he's a scum that slipped. I don't know because I'm not in a position to know.

Proposes a non-mafia cause for Floyd's response to the PM question, but also grants that it could have been a slip.

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

bad

bad

good

good

good

GTH reads Floyd good on Day 7.

Spoiler: show

I'm happy to vote seaside or Choutas. I'm happy to see JJJ lynched to remove the doubt but I think he did the same thing I did w/r/t mac. I'm not confident about Floyd because of his lack of content but my gut says he'd flip town.

That's where my head's at just now.

On Day 7, he voices his support for a lynch of Choutas, seaside, or me. He grants that he thinks I was just wrong about Mac like he was, but wanted to remove me because my continued survival might be a distraction. He doesn't support a Floyd lynch and reiterates his gut town read.

Spoiler: show

Zzzzzz...

Voting bcornett.

What about the top lynch contenders?

Right back at you.

I wouldn't mind lynching seaside, but I still believe Jay is mafia.

I'm not sure yet who to pick between JJJ and Floyd when push comes to shove but I would much rather lynch seaside.

Removing either of them has its benefits.

Promotes a seaside lynch over Floyd or me, but suggests removing either of us "has its benefits".

Spoiler: show

No these are just of the names on the table at the moment. I actually feel like JJJ and Floyd will flip town.

Gut town read on Floyd and I, still Day 7.

Spoiler: show

So, which roles remain at the moment?

why are you interested?

I want to know how many Mafia remain. If I can work out who's scum, I could perhaps put roles on them.

we don't know definitively which roles remain. But you should definitely try that working out who's scum thing.

Floyd tries to get involved in a meaningful way. motel room questions his motivations.

Lengthy response to suspicions cast by Matt F

motel room defends himself for many of the points made in this review, made first and more loudly by Matt. motel room maintains his gut town read on Floyd, but grants that the PM thing could have been a slip. He says his primary concern with the Floyd wagons is that he's an easy lynch target.

motel room voted for seaside on Day 7 and Russ on Day 8.

~~~

This one is tough for me. I think there is a solid mountain of evidence working against motel room, and his involvement with Floyd doesn't seem to help his case very much if at all. The best thing he has going for him I think is that he asked Floyd the question which caused the PM slip -- that's a harsh way to treat a team mate in his first game and probably not necessary. I also must state that much of the evidence against motel room is the same as the evidence against me minus the Floyd lynch. My heart is telling me that motel room is innocent and has just had an off game for reads since the LC lynch. I would be remiss to just ignore the evidence though. motel room: I hope you and I can talk things over a decent amount this phase to help me sort you out.

Am I willing to lynch this guy today? I think I could be convinced.

[Marmot]

Lol, Matt went and posted the same vote record.

[Marmot]

I think we should just lynch Jay right now so he can go sign up for Dune Mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

RadicalFuzz stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

And, to others, Floyd is not a replacement, correct?

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

Do you mean the thread text?

Yes, Floyd, how much of the thread text have you read?

Um. My brain is just screaming at me right now, and I don't know whether it's real insight or I am having a Matt F moment (just playing with you man )

But look at this thing right here: everyone's favorite Floyd slip is sandwiched within a couple Fuzz questions. We can't give Fuzz credit for causing the slip because there's nothing in his initial question that promotes that slip happening... it just did. Floyd literally asked Fuzz whether me meant "have you kept up with the game thread" or "have you kept up with stuff outside the game thread?".

Is that because Fuzz and Floyd had also engaged in some manner of non-thread discourse about this game, and Floyd had a major oopsie moment?

Spoiler: show

Floyd looks bad, no two ways about it. I'm aware that he's had a horrible situation and that's why his contribution is so low, but even the posts he has made have been borderline scumslips. "Do you mean the in-thread text" being the prime example, to me.

Despite that, I'm not going to lynch him on that unless I have to. For a game of this size to be his first, particularly with the bad timing of his IRL situation, he deserves a chance. I'm familiar with at least part of his position, entering into a large game and being overwhelmed, and I'm not going to lynch him for what he's done so far.

I'm aware this is illogical, and likely unpopular. If the time comes that he participates in the thread and says things that I find suspicious, then I will vote him. Until that point, I'm not going to vote for Floyd. I don't condemn any votes against him, it's a perfectly logical move, but I won't join.

The Floyd slip happened on Day 4, but Fuzz doesn't acknowledge it until Day 6 (unless I'm missing something). And when he acknowledges it, he does so in clear language: It's a slip, and it looks terrible. Despite making that read though, he elects not to promote a Floyd lynch because of general noob challenges and his game-external circumstance.

Spoiler: show

Wilgy you, as a Mafia player who understands the game, are aware of something. Information is king. Suspicions, reads, inklings, any game-relevant information helps town (barring extremes like knowing who Medic/UC are), and every civilian should aim to increase the total knowledge base of the town by giving their information as best they can. Your contributions have been raw vote data, trying to get bcornett to answer a question, and now implying you believe I'm dirty. If this is all you have to your name after six days, you are not helping the town win.

I thought my stance on Floyd was clear earlier but I'll reiterate. He looks bad, for the most part completely objectively. The logical conclusion if he looks objectively bad is that he is most likely bad. I will not be voting for him for illogical reasons. The reason I'm not going over any other players for the particularly same reason as you, Wilgy, is because I don't know them. I'm not going to assume that I know what Roxy believes to be good town play. I know that you're aware of your low contribution, but rather than trying to fix the problem you're attempting a No U, and that's not the correct move for town Wilgy here.

Motel, since you're familiar with the series, let's play a game. If I was L, who would Near be?

Epi, I'm trying to stress that ease of lynching is a minimal factor for my decision making process. Blame me for suggesting a Chinese fire drill, as I did, but don't omit that I wanted a Chinese fire drill onto my suspect in Wilgy.

J3, those are my suspicions against him. They're amplified because I know he doesn't believe in playing town like he currently is, however. I don't expect other players to have that coefficient due to familiarity, but I'll offer a substitution. Wilgy stated that he and I play very well off of each other. Has he made attempts to reach out to me in the thread, or has it been me attempting to work with him?

Fuzz reiterates the prior stances later on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

GOOD

BAD

GOOD

GOOD

BAD

GTH reads Floyd bad on Day 7.

Fuzz voted for DrWilgy on Day 7 and again on Day 8. Both times his vote was alone.

~~~

Fuzz: you've been begging ever since you joined us to be read as a bad guy. Congratulations, it's your time to shine!

This looks awful.

Am I willing to lynch this guy today? Yeah.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think we should just lynch Jay right now so he can go sign up for Dune Mafia.

I am sure it'll be a great time, and I would like to play one of Epi's games eventually for sure. I have a policy against playing more than one game at a time though -- it diminishes my performance in both. I should be able to replace in later if needed as long as my part in this game has ended.

[Marmot]

That looks look like a massive coverup if you ask me. I don't think you're just having a Matt F type moment.

[Marmot]

Don't Worry About the Government - Works at the government building, waiting for people to visit him. At the start of every even day period, he gains anonymous temporary BTSC with one player who has never visited him before. Every odd night, any player may PM the host offering to visit him, but only one of the first five players to PM the host will be selected.

I mean I suppose RadicalFuzz could be this role.

Then again, I don't see Floyd going out and gaining temporary BTSC of his own free will. Scratch that thought.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Don't Worry About the Government - Works at the government building, waiting for people to visit him. At the start of every even day period, he gains anonymous temporary BTSC with one player who has never visited him before. Every odd night, any player may PM the host offering to visit him, but only one of the first five players to PM the host will be selected.

I mean I suppose RadicalFuzz could be this role.

Then again, I don't see Floyd going out and gaining temporary BTSC of his own free will. Scratch that thought.

I also don't think Fuzz would acknowledge it as a scumslip if it was civ-origin BTSC.

[Marmot]

I could be convinced to vote RadicalFuzz today.

[Marmot]

Epignosis proposed that we should search for the PSK today.

I disagree. I think we should put drop the anchor on this mafia team if we can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Russtifinko stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

To echo someone (JJJ??), why them in particular? Vote order? Posts? One of them ate all your Cheez-Its? And while I'm asking you things, why is Floyd a major town read?

Questions seaside for his very early town read on Floyd.

Spoiler: show

Linki: I don't have Floyd as bad, but I certainly don't have him as good either. I'm giving people with strong reads on him the side-eye. How could you possibly know without info?

Asserts there's no way to have a strong read on Floyd without inside information on Night 1.

Spoiler: show

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

If he's gone for 3-4 days, won't he just be modkilled for inactivity anyway?

Dissuades Matt F's call for Floyd to looked into more because at that point he was in the modkill zone and it'd be unnecessary.

Spoiler: show

D4 she softly defends Floyd. Then she makes this post, where she says Epi and I stood out to her based on the LC lynch. (This is important further down.) Epi later confronts her on not really bringing up any specific points, and she says she was using the post to bait both of us out to get better reads on us. (Also important later.)

This is snipped from a larger case Russ built against BR on Day 3. He thought it was important that BR defended Floyd and mentioned it in this review, even that it was specifically a "soft" defense. Neither BR nor Floyd had flipped to this point, so this is an astute link drawn by Russ. If he's mafia then it's an effective effort to distance himself from both of them simultaneously -- but it's also just one little sentence in the middle of a larger case.

Spoiler: show

Choutas, can you clarify? I agree that the whole interaction is very weird and makes little sense. You're saying Mac, Wilgy, Floyd, Fuzz, and Matt are all bad, and they're subtly dropping info into the thread because they somehow know Epi is the SK, and want to get the thread onto him instead of themselves?

Again, I'm just not sure how or why that would happen, just trying to get clarification on what people's thoughts on this are.

This was in response to Choutas's claim about DrWilgy and Mac having engaged in mafia-mafia interaction. Russ agrees that it's "very weird and makes little sense", which is a bit vague. He mentions both Mac and Floyd as being relevant to this scenario, as players hunting for the SK as part of a mafia agenda.

Spoiler: show

Hey all, sorry I have been AWOL. Worked until after ten last night and immediately went to bed, and had another huge day today. I'll be back to my usual self by the weekend.

I don't know how to feel about TheFloyd, but I still find it hard to believe JJJ would have bussed LC the way he did and then been so supatown all this time. I can definitely see why people are voting there, but I won't join. I'm gonna read through Floyd now and see if I get anything from him one way or another, to decide whether to put a vote there.

Russ is hesitant to vote for me on Day 7 and pledges to review Floyd's content to decide if he should vote for him instead.

Spoiler: show

I'm happy to see JJJ lynched to remove the doubt but I think he did the same thing I did w/r/t mac.

I actually feel like JJJ and Floyd will flip town.

Please esplain.

Prods motel room to explain his gut town reads on Floyd and I, as well as his potential willingness to lynch us.

Spoiler: show

I actually wouldn't be opposed to a seaside lynch if there's time - dude's been acting weird since D1. However, motel room voted for him, and motel room just took a big jump up my suspect list.

I'd definitely be down to try to pull votes onto motel room.

I didn't see anything in Floyd's history that makes me really want him dead. I think the scum slip theories are overblown, and beyond that there's just not much there.

He decides he doesn't see the case against Floyd and advocates a lynch of motel room instead.

Spoiler: show

He hasn't offered even a modicum of a case against any of them, but is trying like hell to get people to join him in a lynch just because. He even tried to use JJJ's move away from Mac yesterday to get Diiny.

Today, though, he's all about the easy JJJ lynch. He has precisely one point of evidence: he's been going on about JJJ's Mac connection all day, despite the fact that everyone is perfectly clear on it. I think he's trying to lock up the lynch without making it look like he is. Which actually makes me wonder if my vote should be on Floyd after all. If there has been a save attempt in the thread so far, this is the one. It's just subtle enough that people might miss it, and just unsubstantiated enough that he might be able to laugh it off.

seaside pressed him to explain his vote for motel room and this was his response. He seemed to think motel room's vote was a save attempt, and he included Floyd among the people being saved -- this is curious to me, because everyone and their mother otherwise insisted it was me being saved. This is either impressive foresight or TMI.

Spoiler: show

Oh geez. RIP seaside.

I ask again...who came up with the sudden suspicion of seaside?

I'm certainly a guilty party.

I believe Epi started it. I also made a fairly large case, though.

Based on this, a Jay lynch should stay on the table for tomorrow, but I'll have to look at Diiny as well.

Yeah. I never even thought seaside could have actual info. Seems so obvious in hindsight - that's one of the only roles that could have acted that way.

It looks increasingly like one of those two is bad. I also think the results makes Floyd look a bit better. He was a leading vote-getter going into the end, and all but one of his votes stayed put.

Linki: Sleep sounds better than a tuna steak right now. Hopefully tomorrow brings better things.

Suggests the seaside town flip reflects well on Floyd.

Spoiler: show

Floyd, I see you're in thread. Any thoughts on the events of recent days? You nearly got lynched but didn't; what do you think of your voters? JJJ? The last-minute seaside lynch?

And bcornett, I can already tell that post will be real long. Please be so kind as to include a tl;dr when you're done.

Prods Floyd with some general questions on Day 8.

Spoiler: show

Rico, super cool points here.

About the baddies: Drugs – If it carries out the kill, it cannot kill any player it hasn't drugged.

This is a double negative, but I'm pretty sure it means Drugs can only kill drugged players. We know it's only been able to drug one time, and it seems most likely its target was Devin, who is dead. So Drugs may actually be unable to kill right now. However, you raise a good point as to why the baddies aren't using someone other than Life During Wartime. Are you saying you think the mafia are less involved players who haven't read their roles properly?

Your last two points above lead me to think that you think that both Epi and MM are civ, since you criticize the cases against both. Is that an accurate assessment?

I need to read Floyd and MM again. However, it is Friday night, so I may or may not do it tonight.

Says he needs to read Floyd again, never gets around to it though.

Spoiler: show

I haven't reread Floyd like I promised. I don't buy that the rivals thing with Straw was a baddie slip, but people saying he could be anything and we wouldn't know are right.

Reiterates his doubts about the scumslips.

Russ voted for seaside on Day 7 and motel room on Day 8.

~~~

I don't think he sounds bad on the surface, but he does draw some questionable conclusions and his votes are meh. I don't see a good reason why the seaside town flip should have reflected well on Floyd, and he was highly dismissive of the scumslips. I am normally very dismissive of them and even I couldn't deny the "thread text" thing. Also not a fan of pooping on Matt's call for people to read into Floyd just because he might get modkilled (clearly he didn't).

Am I willing to lynch this guy today? I think I could be convinced.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis proposed that we should search for the PSK today.

I disagree. I think we should put drop the anchor on this mafia team if we can.

I'm open to slaughtering any of them without a moment of mercy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I should also acknowledge Floyd's response to Russ's Day 8 prod:

Spoiler: show

Floyd, I see you're in thread. Any thoughts on the events of recent days? You nearly got lynched but didn't; what do you think of your voters? JJJ? The last-minute seaside lynch?

Epi and Marsh's conversations with each other are fascinating to observe.
Who ever Life During Wartime and SK tried to kill, they most likely tried to attack Blind.
I originally thought that Triple J was the SK, but after reading this thread, I think he's probably Mafia scum.
I was shocked by seaside's last minute lynch, I'm still confused why he was voted for. We will probably need to investigate the people who voted for him.

I dressed up as Liam Gallagher for school. That was fun.

Linki: MattF, in what way?

Mostly filler. Doesn't affect my perspective.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

sig stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

@TheFloyd73
Why did you vote for AceofSpades?
What do you think of the night kills?
What do you think about Seaside and why?

You are active enough to come and place a vote so please answer my questions I won't bite

Presses Floyd to speak up on Day 2 by asking a few questions.

Spoiler: show

Seasides post are just so scummy that it makes me think he is a civilian. I don't plan to vote for him at this point, Floyd posted in green then nothing.....I could very well vote for him maybe enough votes will actually get him posting.

Not impressed with Floyd's OT posts.

Spoiler: show

Rico was a top lynch candidate he has since then been making very big posts I notice he is trying to know direct attention away from those who defended LC to those such as myself who were slightly against LC, what is everyone's thoughts on this? Could he be mafia trying to turn attention to another set of civs to lynch?

Diiny was an option for lynching and his posts have declined, could he perhaps be mafia? I'm thinking he might be and if he is I'm pretty sure so is JJJ. It isn't much to go on I know, but that is were I will be voting for the time.

I'm thinking out of the mafia team we might have one or two high to mid level poster but most of the mafia is among those who aren't posting as much or aren't contributing, instead of leading mislynches they are allowing the civs to do it and just voting with it.

Lynch Diiny

I'm suspicious of Mac, Floyd, Seaside, and Choutus.
Floyd has an RL situation and I'm not surprised if he is having difficulty this game it is extremely fast paced and heavy with text.
Mac I can see the arguments against him, but with the current trend of mislynching I'm unsure about him and need to think on it some.
Choutus I'm just getting bad vibes from him, I still think he is more likely to be the SK then mafia, but either way I would be happy with voting for him.

Lists Floyd as a suspect alongside three others on Day 5, but gives him a pass for being a new player in a very fast-paced game.

Spoiler: show

Sig on Mac:

Mac I can see the arguments against him, but with the current trend of mislynching I'm unsure about him and need to think on it some.



Non-stance o-rama, and the mislynching thing doesn't even make sense to me

Well what I meant was with how all of my votes after LC were mislynches I didn't want to vote for someone I was unsure of. I only had a little amount of time yesterday and placed my vote on you instead. I don't regret it since a scum still got lynched and out of those who voted for you later at least one or two are mafia.

These players ended the day with their votes not on one of the leading wagon, I'm thinking there is at least one scum quite possibly more in this group.

Bullzeye I find his vote to be suspicious, first off I think bcornett24 is clean and his last post pinged me.

Glad we got a baddie! Things are looking good. I still need to get properly caught up, gonna consider what's next as well.

This to me at least seems like a scums way to comment on the lynch which they didn't take part in and appear to be civvie. Thoughts on this?

RadicalFuzz You've been consistent with your view on Wilgy and have continued to vote for him based around it. While I'm unsure about Wilgy you've remained consistent with your votes.

bcornett24 ended his vote on JJJ saying he is behind and JJJ appears as scum. I already lean civ on him and am leaning mafia on JJJ, this wasn't done in an attempt to avoid the major lynches. However, I find it interesting your know lynching Diiny who was the other main lynch for yesterday why are you doing this?

TheFloyd73 He ended his vote on Matt F, not much commenting why he voted this way, he did switch from Mac to Matt which isn't looking good imo.

Strawhenge Could you provided some reasoning for your vote on MM, why don't you trust him?

fingersplints Her vote is self explanatory.

It isn't much but, out of just this information I think Floyd and Bullzeye are the two most likely to be mafia. If JJJ is lynched and flips civ I would be more likely to think Bulls is clean and bcornett is scum, but I doubt that will happen. For Fuzz they've been consistent with their pursuit of Wilgy and I'm reading Fuzz as being genuine. I'm just not sure if they are right.

Expresses further suspicion of Floyd on Day 7, decides he is the most suspicious of all alongside Bullzeye.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm going to comment on some things as I go. I still think JJJ is mafia, though I'm unsure about Epi.
I could go for a Floyd lynch I've voiced some suspicion of him, but even if he is mafia if we have others who we think are mafia I believe we should pursue them instead.

Read over Rico ISO, I could go with a motel room lynch over Floyd today.

Straw is interesting he wants MM lynched yet gives no reasoning for it, if MM were to flip civ then Straw would most likely be lynching this isn't something he would do unless he was sure that MM was mafia.

I'm really not sure about some of the leading wagons, motel room had early suspicions of LC and defended Sorsha, looking back this makes him slightly more positive, I will be voting for JJJ tonight, I'm unsure about MM he is slightly leaning mafia, but I'm not sure if I trust Straw enough to just follow him.

I encourage those who are suspicious of JJJ to vote for him, he was almost lynched yesterday and I still believe he is mafia.

JJJ

On Day 8, maintains a mafia read on Floyd but promotes a lynch of either motel room or me instead. He later said he felt we are bigger threats than Floyd but he suspected all of us.

Spoiler: show

MM bad
Strawhenge good
Floyd bad
Motel Room bad
Epignosis good

Calls Floyd bad GTH.

sig voted for JJJ on Day 7 and again on Day 8.

Floyd made no mention of sig.

~~~



I like his consistent anti-Floyd perspective starting from the earlier portion of the game. It's not ideal that he didn't place a crucial vote when it counted in either of the last two phases. I have to decide whether he has been trying to capitalize on the suspicion I've been fielding since Mac died or if he's just been tunneling me. This doesn't look as bad as I expected and some part of me is genuinely leaning toward the latter at the moment. I'd love to hear everyone else's perspective on sig.

Am I willing to lynch this person? I think I could be convinced.

[Marmot]

I still can't get over Floyd suspecting Matt F for quite questionable posts, Strawhenge asking what they are, and Floyd responding "For Heavens sake, check for yourself."

[Marmot]

Here is Matt bringing up the Fuzz/Floyd interaction and Floyd responding to it.

First, what else could Fuzz have possibly been talking about?

I originally though Fuzz was relating to rules, roles, etc. There's nothing wrong with being innocently specific.

Here's a link to the original full post.

Looks like another attempt to smooth things over.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Strawhenge stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

Like, seriously can people stop saying TheFloyd is a town read? There's nothing more to that than foolishness.

I can understand having a gut feeling about people who've made posts, even just a few but when they are 2 low content posts you're joking if you can tell me you have any reason to actually consider them a town read.

What's your angle?

Seriously. I haven't a feeling of the opposite, but that's the point: Floyd hasn't said much. And this is his first game of Mafia, so there's no meta to go off of.

Anybody who has (earnestly) said that Floyd is a town read should probably 'splain.

Questions everyone who was giving early town reads on Floyd.

Spoiler: show

And I want to hear more from Floyd too. This is already a dense-as-fuck game, and I don't envy his position as New Guy in these environs.

Prods Floyd to get involved while acknowledging that it'll be difficult.

Spoiler: show

Jimmy, I'll get to you in a bit.

Like, seriously can people stop saying TheFloyd is a town read? There's nothing more to that than foolishness.

I can understand having a gut feeling about people who've made posts, even just a few but when they are 2 low content posts you're joking if you can tell me you have any reason to actually consider them a town read.

What's your angle?

I didn't like Seaside saying it early in the game, but my reasoning at this point is that TheFloyd is a brand new player, and had participated barely enough to at least do something. If he was scum, I think he would have stuck it out a bit longer or at least been pressured by his scummates to replace out or something. Dropping off the map as an overwhelmed new player seems like a new-town thing to me.

Not necessarily. Especially in a game with this many players. We're looking at a 7-person scumteam. Someone could easily drop off the map and let their team handle things.

Discards HamburgerBoy's assertion that a mafia Floyd would have team mates pressuring him to get involved or replace out.

Spoiler: show

With working urls.

goddamn it i can't edit posts alwiufhlituhjkn.fg89aou4agjkndfgadns i understand why, i'm just saying.

bea: Here it is.

Also, re: the Floyd 'Certainty': Seaside puts his claim that Floyd is a 'strong town lead' at #3 on his list of things. I'm baffled.

Further confusion about town reads on Floyd.

Spoiler: show

seaside - Clusterfuck post history in this thread, easy baddie read but also an easy mislynch? We shall see, right now I have a baddie read.

easy misylynch indeed
i'm thinking jjj is scum now. floyd is def town i reakon. i'm pretty solid on that.
diiny is just scummy you know, i played with him once and he won the game as scum. i was SURE he was town, can you trust that?
putting the pressure on instead of letting him just cruise through in town mode, is a good good option.
wilgy i thought would be scum cause you all thought the same, i could see by the votes.

i guessed two because i doubt 7 would jump on and i don't think too many scum would of jumped on, they just had to get it started and get the numbers. which were quite low. so the first person i reakon was scum and i think diiny jumped on to confirm it.

Seaside's repeated unexplained endorsements of Floyd's towniness reeks more and more of a special ability every time I read it, but then...when would he have been able to use it? He's been touting Floyd's innocence since forever. What does he know? SEASIDE WHAT DO YOU KNOW? YOU'RE TEARING ME APARRRRT

Suggests seaside's insistence that Floyd is a town read might be indicative of inside knowledge.

Spoiler: show

*dances to the remix of Let It Happen*

Hey Floyd! Hey guys, it's Floyd! Floyd's here!

Hey Floyd, people have some questions for you.

1. What's up with your vote for Ace of Spades?

2. Why does Seaside have the utmost confidence that you're town?

3. How do you stay so fresh?

Floyd shows up on Day 2 and Strawhenge jumps at the opportunity to pile questions all over his face. Two of the three are relevant.

Spoiler: show

Voting Seaside until I can get something more believable re: Floyd than, 'Take it however you want to take it.' ._.

Like, obviously don't infodump, but right now it reads like you slipped up in voicing outright confidence in Floyd--who, at the time, had said almost nothing in this game--and have since adhered to it with an air of mystery to make it seem like you have a power role or something.

Also really not liking llama and Epi's responses to me. sirengiffy at best.

Votes seaside because he doesn't understand the town read on Floyd.

Spoiler: show

Well, shoot. I'ma be out and about at EOD. Eff tee arr I still feel good about the Sorsha lynch.

Quick note: Seaside responded on the previous page that his confidence in Floyd was 'a joke, bruv'.

oh what's this in this spoiler box what could it be let's go ahead and take a look here we'll just


JJJ - Just because I didn't have any interactions with LC, I went from blue all the way to orange? That's quite a leap. Especially from someone who just recently screamed that there were too many players. Simply, it was a matter of other things pinging me. Does my casing of players wert LC, i.e. Sorsha, count for anything?

sirengifs seaside after he said his town read on Floyd was a joke.

Spoiler: show

Hey Architecturally Problematic Version of Ancient Landmark, I think you ought to check out Sorsha's more substantive defenses of herself (sorry if you already did and I overlooked that). Tell me what you think about this sucker.

It stems directly from your original case on her and my questions about her responses to it.

I think they're very cogent responses, for sure. However some of the reasons she gives are based on some pretty loose conjecture. Her supposing of Floyd's innocence is based on the fact that if he were scum, he'd be replaced by now. We don't know that. (I in fact kinda think the opposite; Floyd could be chatting up a storm in scum BTSC and masterminding the whole operation, for all we know.) The other point about Mac/Seaside seems like a double-down on noncommittal. 'I was noncommittal about Seaside because I'm noncommittal about both of them because I've never played with them before.' To me that says absolutely nothing.

The tough part about Sorsha is the same tough part I had about my suss of Seaside: real-life time commitment. If she doesn't have time to play, then she doesn't have time to play, and on principle I can't fault her for that.

Additionally, Sorsha expresses that she doesn't feel like any of her defenses would be heeded anyway, and that people will just 'slap votes on.' Not that I find this suspicious in anyway, but I completely disagree. Among myself and a couple people voting for her currently, we would absolutely read defenses.

(doesn't mean we'll believe them, of course, but)

Again discards the notion that a mafia Floyd would have replaced out already, this time regarding comments made by Sorsha.

Spoiler: show

Also placing my vote on Sorsha until I find someone more suspicious.

What exactly makes her suspicious?

Here's some light reading:

Sorsha ★ Basement
1. Everything in my last read on her still sticks for me. Refer to that if you need to.

2. ...And then there's not much else, is there? Bit of skepticism about the Rico vote, and of JJJ, including some more suspicion of Golden, and, later, a halfhearted pledge to vote for Golden again.

I don't want to get on somebody's case for having a busy real life, since I have one too, so maybe that's the only factor. But my rating for Sorsha doesn't change.

Floyd asked Strawhenge for the deets on his beef with Sorsha, and Straw provided dem deets.

Spoiler: show

quite questionable posts.

Which ones?

Presses Floyd to be more specific about things.

Spoiler: show

linki: Floyd, we're rivals here? :o

Immediate response to the "rivals" slip. Seems to acknowledge that it's a weird thing to say, given the emoticon.

Spoiler: show

Devin Heaven also wanted Diiny gone. For "reasons".

I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

I think Floyd's being gone doesn't deserve those heavy quotes, mate. I think he's legitimately been dealing with things IRL. And also this is his first game. This game was so big and complex that even I have had very little energy to put toward it. Floyd's level of activity should not be used against or for him.

Suggests it's unfair to give Floyd a bunch of crap for his lower activity level given the circumstances both within the game and external to it.

Spoiler: show

bcornett24 SCUM
Black Rock TOWN
Bullzeye TOWN
Choutas SK
Diiny SCUM
DrWilgy SCUM
Elohcin TOWN
Epignosis SCUM
fingersplints SCUM
JaggedJimmyJay TOWN
MacDougall NOT SCUM; TO WIT, TOWN OR SK
Matt F TOWN
Metalmarsh89 SCUM
motel room TOWN
RadicalFuzz TOWN
Ricochet SCUM
Roxy TOWN
Russtifinko TOWN
seaside NOT SCUM; IPSO FACTO, TOWN OR SK
sig TOWN
Strawhenge TB;GE
TheFloyd73 SCUM

That's like 80 scum. That doesn't help at all.

brb soup

GTH reads Floyd as scum on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

Ionno, Floyd's supposed scum slip (saying that he and I are rivals in this game) is my most recent clear memory.

okay, no, really, soup

While lamenting about his inability to keep up with the game, he references the "rivals" slip as his last clear memory.

Spoiler: show

BLACK ROCK

I disagree with half of your iso on her, but the other half is dang convincing. Especially wert Roxy.

Please tell me about your points of disagreement.

Sure.

1. BR being snarky. Someone being snarky on the internet? Gasp! I'm sorry for that. But you see my point?

2. BR's stance on Floyd. I don't really see her comments about Floyd being either for or against him. Just seems like she had a different interpretation of Floyd's behavior. In fact, I tend to agree with her that it's possible. Hypothesis: If Floyd is scum, that means he has BTSC with scum. Floyd's communication with them might have given them the impression that he'd be better of silent; maybe he showed a lack of understanding of how the game worked and they were like, Whoa whoa whoa, maybe keep it low-pro, bro.

I guess I'm just saying BR's interpretation is as plausible as Matt's.

3. BR's stance on Epi wert LC. I don't think this outright paints BR as suspicious to think that Epi, who is normally suspicious of LC, was suddenly at LC's defense. Wouldn't it be weird back in RYMville if aether and sleepy had each other's backs?

That's pretty much it. I don't think they exonerate BR whatsoever, but those are the posts where I go all, Huh. I guess I just don't see it.

As I said, the Roxy stuff is pretty convincing. Focusing on the SK as a scum makes sense.

...Which, uh.... Anyone remember when Mac called for an entire day to focus on SK-hunting?

Voices his disagreement with one portion of my BR case, regarding how I felt at the time a BR mafia flip would reflect on Floyd. He was right to question that, because my original interpretation of that was stupid.

Spoiler: show

Hey Matt, I'm only just dropping into the thread for a minute, and will be back on in a couple hours.

Short answer about Floyd: I can see how my advocacy for him to not be suspected based on his level of play can be seen as me flipflopping. However, while my needle on Floyd leans more toward S than T, my comments were simply in regards to Floyd's claims of real-life stuff preventing him from playing—not his low activity overall. And also that his low activity shouldn't be the main point of suspicion on him, both because of real-life stuff and because his first game is this massive one. Because having low posting activity can be used as a tactic, but can also be the result of non-game-related things. Anything I've said in suspicion of his low activity is based on the former, while keeping the latter in mind.

Shorter answer: My suspicion of Floyd is based on what he has posted, not what he hasn't.

Okay, be back later.

Clarifies his perspective of Floyd in response to accusations of flip-flopping. He maintains that he is suspicious of Floyd to some degree while not necessarily thinking his lack of content is a good reason to be suspicious. His suspicions stem from the context that exists and not the content that doesn't.

Spoiler: show

I've noted Floyd's things, but since he seems to occasionally poke his head into the thread, post something incredibly opaque, then vanish, I feel like questioning him on those things would prove fruitless. A couple times I've questioned him while he was online and he's ignored me. Or not seen the post. Or both.

Comments on Floyd's tendency to appear in the thread and make unreadable posts before bailing again.

Spoiler: show

Matt, I explained why I only lightly poked Floyd. It's because he hasn't been responding to things. Other things have been worth my time.

Also I laid out my whole process for this last EOD. What'd you think of that? Am I still scum for not making a risky decision on a lynch? Am I still scum simply for calling Jay and motel scum?

Tells Matt he hasn't been harder on Floyd because his focus has been elsewhere.

Spoiler: show

Floyd, you're online. Thoughts?

Day 7 prod.

Spoiler: show

I don't think he's peachy keen on me. I feel a little better about him, though.

Considering that probably no one will listen to me about Marsh, I'd be down for a Floyd lynch.

Wants to lynch MM but accepts Floyd as an alternative.

Spoiler: show

The reason Floyd hasn't hit the very tip top of my suspect list is because of his newness and his low volume of posts--coupled with the OT posts and the posts that just flat-out don't make sense. It's like, if he's posting stuff like this, it's hard to know if things like this are scumslips or just...I dunno, more weirdness.

But when you frame the Floyd case the way you have, it makes a lot more sense to lynch him than to lynch someone like Marsh, who has provided nothing concrete.

Gradually warms to the Floyd lynch over the MM lynch.

Spoiler: show

I'll be on more tonight. For now I want to place my vote on FLOYD for the reasons already outlined. Weird, cryptic, and suggestive posts.

1. Saying that he and I are 'rivals' (thereby suggesting that he knows we're on opposite teams).

2. This unexplained and, from what I can see, unwarranted apology to JJJ.

3. Um...THIS.

4. Also vote-waffling on Mac[/ur], pointed out by Choutas.

5. Whether you believe in the concept or not, [url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=734&p=184648#p184648]this possible scumslip.

Linki: Yeah, I'll do some GTH.

Decides to vote for Floyd and gives numerous reasons via specific references.

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

TOWN
TOWN/SK
TOWN
TOP BLOKE; GOOD EGG
SCUM

Day 7 GTH read mafia.

Spoiler: show

To follow up, a RYM rainbow list. The 2.5'ers are the leaners; lower in that section lean scum, higher lean town.

Strawhenge published a new list: Who I Think Is Scum: A Rainbow List

Who I Think Is Scum: A Rainbow List

[List83991827] +483

Strawhenge ★★★★★

Matt F ★★★★
Russtifinko ★★★★

Epignosis ★★★½

Bullzeye ★★★
Roxy ★★★
bcornett24 ★★★
motel room ★★★
RadicalFuzz ★★★
Elohcin ★★★

sig ★★½
Diiny ★★½
seaside ★★½
Ricochet ★★½
Black Rock ★★½

DrWilgy ★★
fingersplints ★★
JaggedJimmyJay ★★
Choutas ★★

Metalmarsh89 ★½
TheFloyd73 ★½

Gives Floyd the lowest grade on his RYM rating scale.

Strawhenge voted for Floyd on Day 7 and MM on Day 8.

~~~

Some might think Straw flip-flopped a bit on Floyd, but I don't. I think he was very consistent about his read, and the way he approached it was a lot like the way I approached it. All of this looks very genuine to me, and I think his Day 7 vote is solid enough to forgive the Day 8 vote (which seemed to be motivated by something he clearly has passion for anyway).

Am I willing to lynch this guy today? No.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I skipped Epignosis and Ricochet. I'll decide later whether I want to analyze them as well.

RADICALFUZZ is the clear winner of this analysis. I recommend everyone take a look and tell me what you think.

[Marmot]

I've already looked, but I'll follow your vote.

Vote registered for Radical Fuzz

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

I don't think he's peachy keen on me. I feel a little better about him, though.

Considering that probably no one will listen to me about Marsh, I'd be down for a Floyd lynch.

Wants to lynch MM but accepts Floyd as an alternative.

Spoiler: show

The reason Floyd hasn't hit the very tip top of my suspect list is because of his newness and his low volume of posts--coupled with the OT posts and the posts that just flat-out don't make sense. It's like, if he's posting stuff like this, it's hard to know if things like this are scumslips or just...I dunno, more weirdness.

But when you frame the Floyd case the way you have, it makes a lot more sense to lynch him than to lynch someone like Marsh, who has provided nothing concrete.

Gradually warms to the Floyd lynch over the MM lynch.

Spoiler: show

I'll be on more tonight. For now I want to place my vote on FLOYD for the reasons already outlined. Weird, cryptic, and suggestive posts.

1. Saying that he and I are 'rivals' (thereby suggesting that he knows we're on opposite teams).

2. This unexplained and, from what I can see, unwarranted apology to JJJ.

3. Um...THIS.

4. Also vote-waffling on Mac[/ur], pointed out by Choutas.

5. Whether you believe in the concept or not, [url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=734&p=184648#p184648]this possible scumslip.

Linki: Yeah, I'll do some GTH.

Decides to vote for Floyd and gives numerous reasons via specific references.

I think there's something to be said about Strawhenge giving more reasons to lynch Floyd on Day 7 alone then he's given for lynching me all game. That is the Strawhenge I'm used to seeing (and even recognized on the little research I did on RYM earlier).

I know we've already come to the conclusion that something is off about Strawhenge's read of me, but the evidence continues to mount.

[Ricochet]

Oh yay, ISOs. I'll probably do my own scans of Floyd, but at a slower pace. Weekend's almost over and I have other work to do.

I'll recheck Fuzz. I said I have a role hunch about him, but I could be wrong of course. Question to those who already ISOd him, do they feel his interaections with the other three mafioso (LC, Mac, BR) adds to his charges or not? Also, what do you think about his vote record and particularly vote positions?

[Ricochet]

Nice result, peeps. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't vote for Floyd

3J - Do you remember a long time ago (relative to this game lol), you suspected Ricochet because at one point, Long Con states that "if either Bea or Rico turn up bad, it's time to look at the other" ? I believe you actually voted for Rico that day when you brought it up.

Well, I noticed that post just now when ISOIng you. And then I remembered Black Rock saying (twice) how much she loved Rico's "LC interactions" post.

Here are Rico's lynch votes...

Day 1 - Bea
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden
Day 4 - Devin
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh

^----He hasn't repeated a vote all game.

Looking over his relationship with Mac (even though he would eventually help vote Mac off the island)...

-Mac disagrees with your case on Ricochet and asks you to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead.
-Initially Mac says he doesn't like your case simply because of the "Talking Heads" lyrics...then shortly thereafter suspects Rico for "Talking Heads" lyrics
-Rico explains why he's doing those lyrics (the contest), MacD claims "oh I didn't see that"
-asks Choutas to make a case on Ricochet instead of asking the SK to kill him



What has Rico's feelings been on Floyd? I need to check that out.

Focusing on a confirmed baddie's attitude on a player is the wrong angle. I've included it myself in my research, but it was to point out additional or complementary things in a player's attitude towards confirmed baddies, not as hard evidence.

If you want my interpretation:

-Mac avoided my wagon on D3 like the plague.
-the "lyrics" thing suddenly becoming an issue for him was flippy-floppying, and I've called him on that myself
-I've had to explain that to a lot of people who didn't see it. including this guy called Matt on D0
-I've lashed at Choutas for his SK love letter thing. MacBaddie must have thought the best angle is feigning criticism at Choutas himself.

Also, as I've pointed out a bajillion times, Ricochet voted for Option 6 during Day 0 in the Syndicate thread, which at the time had ZERO votes. Essentially making it harder for us Syndicateers to make sure there were no ties as MP asked.

I've made it "harder for Syndicateers" to correct the tally, yet bea solved it in two seconds by moving her vote off the other option with only one vote. The tally was smoothened and tie-free in less time than we've bickered on the issue, back then. "Hard" task, indeed.

[Ricochet]

Haha. Okay Epig, nice and easy. What are your thoughts on Rico? (I swear I won't call you Mafia because of them)

I think that, if he's bad, he's doing a poor job. The Mafia are under 50% now, and he came out hard against one of them. I think Ricochet would be a more competent Mafia member and would prefer to preserve people and keep the numbers high.

Very true. If I were Mafia, I would be cutting my wrists right now.

[Ricochet]

Jay, have you ISO'd Ricochet at all?

I don't believe I have since the LC interaction analyses when I pegged him as a mafia read and started a big bandwagon. I think he has provided an extremely thorough effort in most phases and I have been willing to trust that he is doing so as a townie who is motivated to win this game. I think I have a special understanding of what that looks like, but I could be wrong.

Is there something that concerns you about Rico?

His vote record is objectively horrific.

Day 1 - bea
Day 2 - DrWilgy
Day 3 - Golden (self-preservation vote)
Day 4 - bcornett
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89

Reading an already constructed ISO would be much easier than starting from scratch, so I thought I'd ask. :P

No less "horrific" than yours, if you really want to resort to adjectives. Didn't I talk about your vote tally already?

D1 votes Russ based on pings
D2 votes sea based on his two mafia nominations
D3 misses vote
D4 votes JJJ becuase...OMGUS?
D5 votes espers based on case
D6 votes Mac based on suspicions
D7 votes seaside based on case

So your first three votes are carp. You get into a different gear and start voting players based on cases and ISOs afterwards. The results are two mislynches and a MacBaddie. You changed your vote six times on D8.

Plus, I've talked about your Mac case not coming off as natural as others (Epig, Wilgy). Also, I need to re-check, but I recall you saying you would have switched off Mac as soon as he would have gotten enough votes. I'd hate to imagine where we would be today, if Mac's wagon wouldn't have remained at 7 votes and he would have survived that lynch Day.

[Ricochet]

ISO Ricochet CTRLing Floyd

Skittle reads Floyd orange (mildly bad?) with a sarcastic "Must be town" (interesting because MacD was very suspicious of players who were saying this for real)

So are you going to give us that one read or not?

Floyd is town.

I've lost the context, but I believe this to be sarcastic.

All sarc.

^----Ricochet, I know I'm suspecting you right now, but given what you said here, how do you feel about Floyd's voters today? (except for Eloh)

I've only suspected Choutas and been wary of Diiny's activity, from the five Floyd voters, and the lynch gives the former slight cred right now. I feel good about Epig and Eloh. I don't know how I feel about JJJ. He was on board with interpreting Straw's post and considering MM until he started writing it off completely. My interpretation is that he couldn't afford to go back on the MM wagon, regardless of alignment, because of the consistency drop. Now I see him back at "could be convinced to vote MM".

Bad scenario A: He's mafia and had to pull the plug on Floyd or MM. This feels a bit too mafia clusterfuck-ish to ring true.
Bad scenario B: He's mafia and only Floyd was his teamie and pulled the plug on him because of doubting too much the MM option to go back there. Could be a cred gain move, but I'm not sold.
Good scenario A: He made a good call.

Leaning on good scenario A, but I'd still require to check his posts on Floyd, at least, to be able to tell better.

COMPLETELY UNRELATED - I noticed Ricochet did not like my "Mac is SK" theory at all and pushed against it.

True. Sorry, but your angle wasn't good, because of details and interpretations that didn't sound plausible. Not sure if I "pushed against it", but I didn't endorse it, that's probably all.

I never hunted Mac using your SK theory, I hunted Mac for being MacBaddie.

He votes Choutas on this day, completely avoiding a 3J, Floyd, or Seaside vote. Whoops! I think I get what you mean by "strong language", 3J, regarding "completely". Haha guess I do do that.

Again, doesn't oppose a Floyd lynch, but won't vote for him.

I dunno. I feel like Rico was pinged by Floyd several times in the game, and yet twice, says he doesn't object to a Floyd lynch, but won't pull the trigger himself.

Can't argue with how it looks, but I'd argue instead that I didn't waffle on it. I always prefer my vote to reflect my work. I didn't want to take what, to my standards, would have been a half-assed stance on JJJ vs Floyd on D7, considering I didn't manage to make any research and read on JJJ. I had no control over the seaside vote, because it happened in my absence, during the last two-three hours. Furthermore, the JJJ and Floyd wagons both collapsed because of the seaside third wagon, so I doubt I would have influenced the events greatly by taking a blind stance, prior to that.

In one of his latest posts, Rico kind of pings on sig for saying (among other things, granted) "I could go for a Floyd lynch but I'm not sure about him". Isn't this kind of what Rico has been saying???

Think I was pretty clear how much waffling, on multiple accounts, sig did in that post of his.

As 3J said, whether Rico is mafia or not, he has put in a helluva lotta work in this game, so I think I'll need more then this to justify a Rico vote. However, I will continue to ISO Rico with CTRLing on "Long Con", "Mac", and "Black Rock"

I can give you a summary, if you want.

I saw LC in a positive light and green skittled him. It almost blew up in my face on D3.

I also saw Mac as good for a long while, in light of his LC sussing. However, after D3-D5 provided very dire lynch results, I decided to change the perspective and look at the opposite side of the spectrum. It proved inspired, because it uncovered that the susser was in fact a teamie. So yeah, I was wrong about Mac too for a while, but then I did the research properly.

I never managed to address BR properly, back when others were suspecting her.

I know it doesn't look splendid, but it doesn't make me bad. Hunting Mac is my best acomplishment so far and it should be the strongest indicator that I have nothing to do with those seven people down there.

[Bullzeye]

Awesome result, the baddies don't stand a chance! I should have some time to play today so I will try to be around as much as I can. Into the coming week I don't know how much time I'll have at all.

[Marmot]

Plus, I've talked about your Mac case not coming off as natural as others (Epig, Wilgy). Also, I need to re-check, but I recall you saying you would have switched off Mac as soon as he would have gotten enough votes. I'd hate to imagine where we would be today, if Mac's wagon wouldn't have remained at 7 votes and he would have survived that lynch Day.

When did I say something like that?

[Ricochet]

Oops, you were talking about the Dusk 0 elections.

My bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll recheck Fuzz. I said I have a role hunch about him, but I could be wrong of course. Question to those who already ISOd him, do they feel his interaections with the other three mafioso (LC, Mac, BR) adds to his charges or not? Also, what do you think about his vote record and particularly vote positions?

My immediate thought is that his focus has been narrow enough that there probably isn't enough good meat in his interactions with the other mafia to make a big difference. I'll do my due dilligence though and have a look.

RadicalFuzz interactions with LC, Mac, and BR:

Spoiler: show

I'll vote Choutas for his freestylin' coolness, and reywaS because he don't lie.

LC voted for reywaS on Dusk 0.

He joined the game after the LC lynch, and reywaS said nothing.

Spoiler: show

So my Mafia include Mac, bcornett24, Russtifinko, Black Rock and espers to round it out.

Why aren't I in your Mafia list?

Who are you?

The person who notices that you only list 5 Mafia to "round it out" when supposedly listing the entire remaining Mafia. A team of 7, one being killed, should make 6. But you, for some inexplicable reason, think that there are 5 Mafia remaining.

Gives Epi a little crap for throwing up a scumlist of 5 (including Black Rock) instead of 6 -- calling this potential oversight "inexplicable". This itself is hard to understand because it doesn't account for the unrevealed victims of the SK (HamburgerBoy and FZ).

Spoiler: show

BCORNETT24

BLACK ROCK

BULLZEYE

CHOUTAS

BAD

BAD

GOOD

GOOD

GTH reads BR bad on Day 7.

Spoiler: show

This is an extremely entertaining way of dealing with low participation.

This post exists.

Spoiler: show

Mac, if you're confident all three are bad vote J3 with me.

By the way J3 I'm voting for you.

Encourages Mac to vote for me on Day 4.

Spoiler: show

Oh you think I'm asking with a view to killing you.

No, it was a genuine question. How serious are you about your scum read of me? I tend to enjoy playing with a level of suspicion on me but it's getting a bit much. If you guys are serious I'll up my town game some.

Where exactly did bcornett go?

Also Mac, if you're offering to step up your game if I state lynching intent then by all means you're my top suspect.

Gives Mac crap for suggesting he was going to up his town game due to fielding too much suspicion.

Spoiler: show

Matt, I'm not quite following you. You say that specifically because you underlined the word "job" MacDougall believed you to be the role "Found a Job" and backed off? Do you think that's more likely than Mac backing off simply because he was being ridiculously aggressive?

Questions Matt on his SK theory against Mac and suggests Mac might be backing off because he was being too aggressive.

Spoiler: show

If Mac was involved in the challenge, then he's definitely the SK, because Mac's (or whoever the SK is) challenger definitely DID NOT win the Day 4 challenge.

Ya all can do what you wish, but I'm tellin' ya, he's the SK and I think we should lynch him.

So you're saying that Sorsha, Found a Job, targeted Mac and someone else last night. The challenge was something related to "posters" or "memes." So the SK must've been targeted by Sorsha and won the challenge. The poster Mac made stood out to you as a likely challenge. That sounds pretty logical, actually.

Epi, civilian Ninja (if I understand it correctly) is extremely different from a 3rd party Serial Killer. The SK's only concern is reducing numbers and self-preservation, it doesn't bother with allegiance. The civilian Ninja has to win with town, so automatically they should be cautious when killing someone.

I lack "fall backs" this game, Wilgy? Plan B's, of sorts?

Suggests there might be some logic to Matt's theory that Mac posted his poster as part of a Sorsha-inspired "job".

Spoiler: show

That's a good point MM. There's also something to keep in mind about several roles, there are secret clauses. We don't know every detail of the Psycho Killer's role, and while improbable, I don't think it impossible that there exists some way of "double killing" on a given night.

Mac, the phrase "I trust you idiots will make the right decision" would imply that you think we're right, but unintelligent. If you're going to take this in a joking manner the least you could do is not contradict yourself.

Gives Mac a little crap about his abrasive language, implies there is a contradiction.

Spoiler: show

On the topic of espers, he was the first to respond to me. He asked why I was concerned about getting lynched, when I had posted that I would still be mostly silent for about two days. He has not responded or otherwise engaged me since.

For what it's worth, I believe that Mac's reaction to Matt F's accusation looks good. Timeline of his responses spoilered below:

*snip* -- Visit the post yourself to see the spoiler. Spoilers within spoilers are bad news on this site. - JJJ

There's no attempt at any sort of logical defense for roughly half an hour. I believe if he was Mafia then there's a good chance he would've attempted to explain away the accusation, even if with the same response, earlier. He reads chaotic, but not panicked, to me. You others who know him can decide if that's "normal" behavior or not.

Roxy, I'm sorry for your loss. Pets are family too, and it's hard when their time is up.

Mac, the reason I'm frustrated is because I don't see a standard. I don't know what is and isn't allowed, all I know is there are rules about not being an ass. Then I see you calling people jerkwads, idiots, dumbshits, saying someone's penis will shrivel up inside them. I don't care about the language, my home site has zero filter and I honestly prefer it that way. This is infuriating because I'm trying to adhere to these rules that I have no objective measure of while you clearly don't care what comes out of your mouth and have made a game of spouting shit out of boredom. That's why I got fed up with you yesterday.

Asserts Mac's reactions to Matt's accusations were a good look and then explains his "beef" with Mac's language to him. He seems to have no personal problem with that language and instead is criticizing Mac's apparent approach as a "bored" player.

Spoiler: show

J3 - You understand why I can't trust you anymore.

I asked you the "name three people that won't stab you in the back" question to see what order your list the names in. Mac should've been first, and I thought there was a good possibility I was there, but since you were so adamant on Mac he naturally would've been the first player you thought of. Why Straw? And when exactly did your opinion of Mac change?

The second was to see if you would both answer the question. Only you did. Curiouser and curiouser.

Why did you put Wilgy in your "won't lynch" category?

Gives me crap because I didn't list Mac among my three top town reads on Day 6 when he requested three names. He claimed it was inconsistent with my content prior.

Spoiler: show

Mac I see what you're putting down. Don't know what it means, but I see it.

Vague on Day 6.

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The main reason to lynch Mac, for me, is because he wanted to lynch Sorsha to get information either way, as Rico said. However, he never actually said what kind of information he would get from the lynch. His reactions to Matt's SK accusation read town to me. That's enough for me to hesitate. In the meantime I'm pursuing Wilgy, and that's gotten nowhere. Mac, I believe it was, who asked me to put in effort on post analysis, had nothing to say. Wilgy had pretty much nothing to say. Nobody cares about Wilgy. That makes me feel marginally worse about Wilgy.

Offers one reason to lynch Mac (his treatment of Sorsha) as a piggyback to Rico's case. He reiterates that Mac's reactions to Matt were a town look and gave him pause. He pursues Doc instead.

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Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

Tells Mac he's disappointed that he wasn't listed as a scum read after having called him scum, and then griped at Mac's reception of his analytic content. Then he suggests that the number of players pushing for Mac's lynch was an indicator that he might not be mafia.

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Ah, the deadline is in four hours, my mistake.

I understand that you've put a lot of work into getting the lynch wagon on Mac going, and I respect the effort, but let me put it a different way.

I think Wilgy is dirtier than Mac. My preference would be to lynch the player I am most confident in being scum. In addition, Mac is a strange individual that I am unfamiliar with, while I've known Wilgy for years. Speaking for myself, I'd rather lynch Wilgy, because he's aware of the responsibility to play correctly that all civilians have. He hasn't been contributing what he should be contributing as a townie if he is one, and that leads me to believe that he's not. The Mac lynch is more complex, both the case and the player (to me), so I'd rather take the action that I believe to be more correct with the information I have available to me.

Continues to push Doc over Mac on Day 6 based on his familiarity with Doc.

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Voting reywaS because their 1 post had less content than Russtifinko's did.

Mac drops a Day 1 vote on reywaS for lurking.

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Sure, would you join me in a vote for reywaS?

Mac invites MM to vote for reywaS alongside him.

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Did I not actually try to get people to vote for reywaS instead? Did I not also actually attract votes onto reywaS? Did I say, "guys we should lynch a lurker, but please don't cast your vote onto the same player as me?" So how does your argument stack up. What if I was able to get the town to lynch, or come within 3 votes of lynching reywaS if I was this scum player? I'm out on day 1 and I'm the worst scum player ever evidently.

This comes from a substantive interaction between Mac and LC. LC suggested we should pursue a lurker lynch on Day 2 in the same post as throwing some shade at his team mate (Mac). Mac defends himself, and a portion of that defense is this bit in which he reiterates his Day 1 pursuit of a reywaS lynch.

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MARSH

MOTEL ROOM

ZEBRA

REYWAS

Good

Good

Good

Good

Mac's Day 3 GTH read on reywaS is "good".

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Where exactly did bcornett go?

Also Mac, if you're offering to step up your game if I state lynching intent then by all means you're my top suspect.

Haha I like you too

This post exists.

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If Mac was involved in the challenge, then he's definitely the SK, because Mac's (or whoever the SK is) challenger definitely DID NOT win the Day 4 challenge.

Ya all can do what you wish, but I'm tellin' ya, he's the SK and I think we should lynch him.

So you're saying that Sorsha, Found a Job, targeted Mac and someone else last night. The challenge was something related to "posters" or "memes." So the SK must've been targeted by Sorsha and won the challenge. The poster Mac made stood out to you as a likely challenge. That sounds pretty logical, actually.

It's all a little bit too likely isn't it. Almost like it was a plan all along by the actual serial killer.

Okay, back to lurking. I trust you idiots will make the right decision.

Mac is incredulous about Fuzz's reception of Matt F's SK theory.

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If you're going to be an ass then I'll let you deal with your situation. You've convinced me, so you're doing swimmingly so far. Best of luck.

Convinced you of what?

Okay fine I will stop being hostile. I'm sorry.

More laughter. For the record, Fuzz was stating his trust of Mac based on his reactions to Matt in this exchange.

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I don't see anything wrong with Black Rock actually. It would be easy for me to just agree here but nothing she is saying is pinging me at all.

I actually think Russ's posts are more likely to be a scum trying to avoid a town lynch.

Am I missing something about Black Rock?

linki: RadicalFuzz, asking weird questions is a really nice way for someone to design scum reads on townies and is a poor substitute for post analysis in my opinion.

RadicalFuzz answer me this. If you had a carton of beer and you could only share it with three players in the game, but one of the beers had my piss in it, who would you share it with?

Keep in mind that no matter what you say I will find a reason for your answer to make you scummy, and if you refuse to answer or fail to answer that makes you scummy too.

RadicalFuzz if you don't start doing actual post analysis I'm going to have no choice but to call you names. You have so few quotes, you have stuck your nose in so few scraps. You are just sitting around asking questions and playing a game totally your own. Get involved.

Mac gives Fuzz crap for all of the weird questions he was asking, suggesting that he's not getting truly involved.

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With the information that I believe you're trying to tell me with that, Wilgy, I don't see how that changes my conclusion. I don't have anything to work off of here, so rather than assume some hidden shenanigans I have to base my conclusions off of what I can see. You're not making me feel better by continually making vague statements that you can't or won't back up when that's a part of my suspicion against you. Until you can convince me otherwise, and I sincerely hope you do, my conclusion is that you're scum and my vote will stay on you.

Metalmarsh, I don't feel inclined to make a case that you're scum at this moment.

See, this guy gets it.

RadicalFuzz tell em all how town I am.

Interesting post. Fuzz wasn't even talking about Mac here, he was talking about Doc as a suspect. So Mac jumped in out of nowhere and offered up this WIFOMburger. It should be noted that I defended Mac for days and he never treated me like this.

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Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

Bullzeye
Motel room
Sig
Metalmarsh
Wilgy
Russ

Mac randomly says Fuzz is scum and then two minutes later does not include him on a scumlist.

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Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

Well it is a throwaway vote in the sense that it was alone. I agree with your analysis of Wilgy though. I was just starting to just name people with few votes on them and then decided to look a bit closer. You town. He scum.

Mac promptly reverses his Fuzz read and throws his support in on the case against Wilgy.

~~~

Fuzz's votes:

Dusk 0: none
Day 1: none
Day 2: none
Day 3: none
Day 4: JJJ (18)
Day 5: espers (23)
Day 6: DrWilgy (17)
Day 7: DrWilgy (11)
Day 8: DrWilgy 15)

~~~

Conclusion:

There's no real content here with regard to Black Rock, and he joined the game too late to make any impact upon the LC scenario. I thought he looked awful in his Floyd interaction. His interaction with Mac is the real meat here. I observe a decent amount of mutual antagonism (Rico's favorite thing), and also mutual playfulness. While they did oppose each other at times verbally, they never did so in a way which would remotely increase the likelihood of either one being lynched. Not even Mac's vote and push for reywaS on Day 1 was meaningful because rey just wasn't get lynched then. It was a throwaway vote.

Throwaway votes are a trend for Fuzz too. The only time he has contributed to a real bandwagon with a chance to result in a lynch was the wagon for espers -- the same wagon which should have won the tally but did not because of shenanigans. Otherwise he has wasted his votes on DrWilgy and I at every opportunity.

I am no less suspicious of Fuzz. This made it worse honestly. Tell me what you think.