[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I want to ensure my case against RadicalFuzz is properly noticed as being divided into two parts. Both of these comprise my case, for those who've not been by the thread yet:

Interactions with Floyd

Interactions with Mac, BR, and LC along with voting record

[DrWilgy]

Got home from work. Gonna nap then post.

In the meantime, If yall have questions for me use DrWilgy in the post so I can ctrl f them and address them when I wake up. I think I saw some stuff from JJJ that needed defining?

After questions I'll address Choutas. Also I think there's potential for Fuzz and Choutas to be on the same team. If y'all want, check thier interactions with me and each other (especially considering Fuzz's existence is based on mine).

Peace doods + Eloh

[Diiny]

Russ and MM have gone completely over my radar this game and they've been featured somewhat. Gotta look at 'em. Keej to a lesser extent, too.

I'm looking at your isos jim jam

[Diiny]

EBWOP: Rad, not Russ.

"While they did oppose each other at times verbally, they never did so in a way which would remotely increase the likelihood of either one being lynched."

Well phrased. I think emotional clashes are a good way for scum to distance- they don't actually do damage to scum players and their standing but still allow a air of conflict to exist between members.

The only real niggle with the case is that he treats floyd kinda differently than he does Mac, just kinda being quiet about floyd until it was looking bad for him already but being antagonistic with mac for a while. Horses for Courses, though, I can see a Rad who'd pick different tactics between teammates, especially when there's a big difference between their presences and play styles in the thread.

Yeah nah this guy's lynchable.

[Diiny]

Jim, you don't think it's bad that Sig on day 1 shits on floyd then says he bad, only to instantly caveat his way out of having to vote for him, in doing so undermining his entire suspicion of him?

[Marmot]

RadicalFuzz interactions with MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

Mac, if you're confident all three are bad vote J3 with me.

By the way J3 I'm voting for you.

Day 4 - asks Mac to vote Jay with him, since they both had Jay listed as mafia at the time.

Spoiler: show

Where exactly did bcornett go?

Also Mac, if you're offering to step up your game if I state lynching intent then by all means you're my top suspect.

Night 4 - Tells Mac that Mac will become his top suspect if it means Mac will step up his game. Not a bad look, but not engaged either.

Spoiler: show

Matt, I'm not quite following you. You say that specifically because you underlined the word "job" MacDougall believed you to be the role "Found a Job" and backed off? Do you think that's more likely than Mac backing off simply because he was being ridiculously aggressive?

If Mac was involved in the challenge, then he's definitely the SK, because Mac's (or whoever the SK is) challenger definitely DID NOT win the Day 4 challenge.

Ya all can do what you wish, but I'm tellin' ya, he's the SK and I think we should lynch him.

So you're saying that Sorsha, Found a Job, targeted Mac and someone else last night. The challenge was something related to "posters" or "memes." So the SK must've been targeted by Sorsha and won the challenge. The poster Mac made stood out to you as a likely challenge. That sounds pretty logical, actually.

Epi, civilian Ninja (if I understand it correctly) is extremely different from a 3rd party Serial Killer. The SK's only concern is reducing numbers and self-preservation, it doesn't bother with allegiance. The civilian Ninja has to win with town, so automatically they should be cautious when killing someone.

I lack "fall backs" this game, Wilgy? Plan B's, of sorts?

Day 5 - Discusses Mac's pursuit of Matt with Matt. Asks Matt why he think Mac backed off of his aggressive approach directed at Matt. Still not engaged.

Spoiler: show

That's a good point MM. There's also something to keep in mind about several roles, there are secret clauses. We don't know every detail of the Psycho Killer's role, and while improbable, I don't think it impossible that there exists some way of "double killing" on a given night.

Mac, the phrase "I trust you idiots will make the right decision" would imply that you think we're right, but unintelligent. If you're going to take this in a joking manner the least you could do is not contradict yourself.

No, I wasn't contradicting myself. I was just calling you all idiots for amusement reasons.

I might make a big post before the end of the day giving a reason why each player in this game is an idiot. Would that be fun?

I can't speak for anyone else, but go ahead and publicly mock me.

MM, counting roles that have secrets it could be a few. Animals, Houses In Motion, Love For Sale, No Compassion, and the Psycho Killer himself. Is talking about a dead player as if they had a specific role against the rules here? If Golden was forced to gibberish for a phase I'd rather not take the risk until I know for sure.

Where has Ricochet run off to, I wonder?

If you're going to be an ass then I'll let you deal with your situation. You've convinced me, so you're doing swimmingly so far. Best of luck.

Criticism is not what you posted, Mac.

Mafia that don't kill every night can inherit a killer's powers when that killer dies and can then kill every night? I am apparently unfamiliar with certain trends on this site, including the "must be alive to win" clause present in most games. I don't get it.

Day 5 - Stemming from the previous points, this comment is directed at MacDougall. Makes a point to MacDougall about semantics. Responds to Mac's sarcasm accordingly. Still not engaged with him. Fuzz adds a couple parting comments that sounds like a support, while also calling Mac an ass. These read genuine, but don't reveal anything of Fuzz's view on Mac at the time. Neutral look.

Spoiler: show

Sorsha's role card says that she decides the winner Night 4, that it requires some form of input from her on Night 4. I find it extremely unlikely that hosts would allow Sorsha to decide the winner of Night 4 post-mortem and then come into the thread and leave the question at best intentionally vague. I find that scenario would be very strange and more than likely not the case.

Also, J3, I want to engage in a debate with you later tonight about something. Going out for a few hours now, but just a heads up for later.

There's a Little Mac joke in there somewhere but I'm too lazy to find it. Choutas I disagree with your assessment of Mac during Matt F's push for him at the beginning of the day. I'll explain why when I return.

On the topic of espers, he was the first to respond to me. He asked why I was concerned about getting lynched, when I had posted that I would still be mostly silent for about two days. He has not responded or otherwise engaged me since.

For what it's worth, I believe that Mac's reaction to Matt F's accusation looks good. Timeline of his responses spoilered below:
10:58 - Laughs at how "tragically hilariously wrong" Matt F is.
10:59 - Responds to me, saying the entire scenario is too likely, implying Matt F is the real Serial Killer.
11:03 - Sarcastically asks the hosts to confirm that the Mafia cannot be the Serial Killer.
11:04 - Explains that making the poster for Matt F's lynch was for amusement.
11:05 - Says he didn't notice the italics on the word "job" because he was too busy teasing Matt F.
11:06 - Says he might make a big post giving reasons why everyone in this game is an idiot.
11:08 - Suggests the possibility that the failed kill was performed by the civvie kill role and made to look like the SK's kill by some other role.
11:18 - States anger at Matt F for sucking at Mafia and begins looking through the roles for an explanation.
11:25 - First attempted explanation of the events of last night.
11:30 - Gloats.
11:32 - Claims his theory (his words) is in fact an explanation.
11:37 - Responds to MM's overeager prods by calling the rest of us dumb shits playing like idiots.
11:41 - Goes back to not giving a shit.
11:54 - Calls MM, Epi, and I jerkwads who are confirmed scum.

There's no attempt at any sort of logical defense for roughly half an hour. I believe if he was Mafia then there's a good chance he would've attempted to explain away the accusation, even if with the same response, earlier. He reads chaotic, but not panicked, to me. You others who know him can decide if that's "normal" behavior or not.

Roxy, I'm sorry for your loss. Pets are family too, and it's hard when their time is up.

Mac, the reason I'm frustrated is because I don't see a standard. I don't know what is and isn't allowed, all I know is there are rules about not being an ass. Then I see you calling people jerkwads, idiots, dumbshits, saying someone's penis will shrivel up inside them. I don't care about the language, my home site has zero filter and I honestly prefer it that way. This is infuriating because I'm trying to adhere to these rules that I have no objective measure of while you clearly don't care what comes out of your mouth and have made a game of spouting shit out of boredom. That's why I got fed up with you yesterday.

Day 5 - Later comments on Mac's posting style and language. Still no insight in Fuzz's read of Mac.

Spoiler: show

J3 - You understand why I can't trust you anymore.

I asked you the "name three people that won't stab you in the back" question to see what order your list the names in. Mac should've been first, and I thought there was a good possibility I was there, but since you were so adamant on Mac he naturally would've been the first player you thought of. Why Straw? And when exactly did your opinion of Mac change?

The second was to see if you would both answer the question. Only you did. Curiouser and curiouser.

Why did you put Wilgy in your "won't lynch" category?

Day 6 - Discussses Jay's change in stance on Mac, and calls it a bad look for Jay. Still no opinion of Mac himself.

Spoiler: show

I asked both J3 and Wilgy questions about each other. J3 responded while Wilgy did not. My best guess as for Wilgy's reaction if he was scum with J3 would be to coordinate responses.

It's an extremely minor thing, and can honestly be interpreted either way, but I find it interesting nonetheless.

J3, as I recall, you were confident that Mac was town. The tone I was getting was that of more confidence than most of your other statements.

It's not strange with regards to you answering the question, rather that one of two people asked did and the other did not.

The surprise at your confidence in Wilgy is the same as your surprise at your Mac stance. I thought you had expressed concern that Wilgy was more concerned with putting up fancy graphs or charts that appear to contain a lot of information while avoiding giving reads or conclusions based off that information. Also I strongly dislike his attempted jump on me for using the word "conclusions" earlier. He knows better than that.

Why Straw?

Very well Mac, I'll get my hands dirty. It's late, and I won't be around for very long tomorrow, but Monday shall see if it is fruitful.

I'd give all three to you and give the beer you didn't drink to Wilgy.

Day 6 - Mac threatens to call Fuzz names for his casual approach to the game and lack of post analysis. Fuzz responds and says he'll "get his hands dirty".

Spoiler: show

I speak to you all as someone who plays via mobile occasionally.

For the love of god use spoilers. Open your phone to this page and imagine Rico's post being quoted ten times, in addition to actual new content under it that would then get quoted and replied to in turn. I can't imagine a world where not wanting to wade through all of that constantly is considered scum-exclusive behavior.

Mac I see what you're putting down. Don't know what it means, but I see it.

Wilgy I have no idea what role Epi is or whether or not he was able to kill last night. This applies to everyone in the thread, the exceptions being myself and J3. I have an educated guess on what role J3 is.

Being on nearly everyone's "not lynching today" lists is disconcerting. Someone make a case for me being scum, if you'd kindly.

J3 I apologize for the misplaced argument.

Day 6 - Says he sees what Mac is saying, but doesn't understand it. Does not appear engaged.

Spoiler: show

The main reason to lynch Mac, for me, is because he wanted to lynch Sorsha to get information either way, as Rico said. However, he never actually said what kind of information he would get from the lynch. His reactions to Matt's SK accusation read town to me. That's enough for me to hesitate. In the meantime I'm pursuing Wilgy, and that's gotten nowhere. Mac, I believe it was, who asked me to put in effort on post analysis, had nothing to say. Wilgy had pretty much nothing to say. Nobody cares about Wilgy. That makes me feel marginally worse about Wilgy.

Day 6 - Fuzz's first post about Mac that states a read of sorts. He justifies a vote for the lynching of MacDougall, but it is important to note that Fuzz's vote never left DrWilgy, whom he had place it on earlier.

It is also important to note what the lynch looked like at the time of this post of Fuzz. The two leading candidates at that moment are both confirmed mafia.

MacDougall - 4 (DrWilgy, Matt F, Metalmarsh89, Epignosis, Elohcin*) - Elohcin bolded her vote in-thread, but forgot to vote in poll
Black Rock - 2 (Jay, motel room)
Each other player - 1

Spoiler: show

Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

Day 6 - Some banter with Mac about Mac's read of Fuzz. However, Fuzz then suggests that so many players pushing Mac's lynch makes him look better.

Spoiler: show

I'm sad that there's no self-voting in this game.

Roughly two and a half hours, if nothing changes. And that seems unlikely, barring any Chinese firemen entering the thread.

Actually, that could work.

Anybody up for a CFD? I nominate Wilgy.

Day 6 - Suggests that we Chinese Fire Drill to DrWilgy.

Not directly related to Mac, except that Mac had the plurality of the votes at the time. Big exception.

--------------------====================####################====================--------------------

RadicalFuzz interactions with Black Rock:

Spoiler: show

BCORNETT24

BLACK ROCK

BULLZEYE

CHOUTAS

BAD

BAD

GOOD

GOOD

Day 7 - Just a GTH read (Bad). That is all.

--------------------====================####################====================--------------------

My Observations

I went into this with a slight agenda of a bad read on RadicalFuzz, but I still don't think that what I have determined is entirely a product of that.

1) While reading RadicalFuzz's posts, especially with regards to the high posters in the game, he was more inclined to discuss reads with and about said players, especially Jay. Fuzz had a mafia read on Jay for most of the game, and made one particular note on the day Mac was lynched that supported a mafia case on Jay. Fuzz has had a townread on me for the past few days.

2) Fuzz's interactions with MacDougall are telling in my opinion. All the way up until the one I noted with a lynch poll status, Fuzz did interact with MacDougall quite a bit, but most of it is not directly related to the game and/or the players involved. He commented several times on MacDougall's language, he discussed other players' thoughts on MacDougall, but Fuzz never did offer an original read of his own until the middle of Day 6 when MacDougall was leading the lynch 4-2 (and over a teammate nonetheless).

3) Fuzz's contributions to the game have dropped drastically since MacDougall was lynched. His focus has been on getting DrWilgy or bcornett lynched, but mainly the former of those two. But there is no passion, no fire behind his posts now though, not like there was Day 5 and 6. One could argue that he is losing interest and just trying to appear consistent. After watching MacDougall get lynched, Black Rock get modkilled, and the expectation that Floyd will be lynched, and he connected to it, I don't think this is a far-fetched assumption.


Linki: fucking hell Jay, I didn't know you were doing one too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Linki: fucking hell Jay, I didn't know you were doing one too.

Don't despair, it's awesome to have multiple perspectives in the thread.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jim, you don't think it's bad that Sig on day 1 shits on floyd then says he bad, only to instantly caveat his way out of having to vote for him, in doing so undermining his entire suspicion of him?

Could you do me a favor and show me to the relevant posts? I'm otherwise engaged with Internet Things but am checking in periodically.

[Marmot]

Ture.

[Ricochet]

Much appreciated, JJJ and MM. Some of the points you make sound good, so I definitely need to revise him, including the Floyd interaction. JJJ, you speak of mutual antagonism (and me liking it) and playfulness, but I recall more playfulness (as in banter) than the former. Although, right now, it does make me think if, out of all the people MacBaddie spewed on, this is the kind of distancing he was attempting to blend.

Also, you call his vote "throwaway", but this is particularly the reason why I asked you to think about whether they're only meant to seem throwaway. There's a particular role who could be strategic in his votes where, in fact, he might seem sprawling and Fuzz's vote record definitely caught my eye in this regard. It could be nothing of course, but idk, I feel it's worth saying.

I totally forgot about that Chinese Fire Drill summoning. Hmmmm

[Matt]

Let's lynch Elohcin - Just havin' fun with ya, Eloh.

Nah, but for real, did you ever answer Epignosis? Have you been recruited?

[Marmot]

7. Civilians win if they have eliminated the Mafia, Serial Killer, and possibly (?) the Independent. Mafia win if they have eliminated the Civilians, Serial Killer, and possibly (?) the Independent. The Serial Killer must be the Last Man Standing. The Independent wins by ????.

I wanted to bring this up again. There is potential for an independent role that might need to be eliminated?

[Matt]

7. Civilians win if they have eliminated the Mafia, Serial Killer, and possibly (?) the Independent. Mafia win if they have eliminated the Civilians, Serial Killer, and possibly (?) the Independent. The Serial Killer must be the Last Man Standing. The Independent wins by ????.

I wanted to bring this up again. There is potential for an independent role that might need to be eliminated?

Wait...what?

[Tangrowth]

Disregard, that is outdated. I had an Independent role called "And She Was", but when we far exceeded the # of players I originally wrote the game for (25), I decided to completely revamp that role into a civilian role.

I will rewrite that now, excluding the Independent.

[Elohcin]

Goes with Floyd in the end, suggesting his lynch might help to read me. So, Elo... whaddya think?

I feel better about you these days.

Let's lynch Elohcin - Just havin' fun with ya, Eloh.

Nah, but for real, did you ever answer Epignosis? Have you been recruited?

I did answer. I said no. And then I asked why he would think I was recruited. He never answered. I also asked everyone what they thought about those who are being very quiet. And no one answered me about that either.

[Matt]

Eloh - Here are my G2H reads on "quiet" players (I'm using less then 150 posts as definition of "quiet")

bcornett - GOOD
Bullzeye - Uhh errr ummm BAD
Dr Wilgy - GOOD (not everyone knows about this, but after what he pulled with myself, Mac, Floyd, and Fuzz, I believe he's good solely because of that)
Elohcin - DEFINITELY GOOD UNLESS RECRUITED
Russ - GOOD. While he was telling me how much he hates hints, I believe he hinted his role to me. Of course, if that role shows up dead, then this changes QUICK
sig - BAD

******

Couple of notes

Eloh - You're like, the quietest player in the game and you're asking about quiet players!!

3J - I believe you wanted to lynch sig yesterday, but once he got 2 votes, you switched it up to Radical Fuzz. What gives?

Also shortly, I will pull up a post from MacDougall which makes me question Elohcin's alignment. :P

[Matt]

If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?

This is a fantastic question posed by scum MacD.

If Elohcin is obv town, and she will not be lynched, why don't the Mafia take her out?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J - I believe you wanted to lynch sig yesterday, but once he got 2 votes, you switched it up to Radical Fuzz. What gives?

I opened the phase with sig as my top suspect before doing any real work. Then I did some real work. I decided I am more suspicious of Fuzz.

[Marmot]

Disregard, that is outdated. I had an Independent role called "And She Was", but when we far exceeded the # of players I originally wrote the game for (25), I decided to completely revamp that role into a civilian role.

I will rewrite that now, excluding the Independent.

That's a relief.

[Epignosis]

If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?

This is a fantastic question posed by scum MacD.

If Elohcin is obv town, and she will not be lynched, why don't the Mafia take her out?

When have they had an opportunity to kill her? How do you know they didn't try and fail?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, you call his vote "throwaway", but this is particularly the reason why I asked you to think about whether they're only meant to seem throwaway. There's a particular role who could be strategic in his votes where, in fact, he might seem sprawling and Fuzz's vote record definitely caught my eye in this regard. It could be nothing of course, but idk, I feel it's worth saying.

I'm not certain what you mean by "sprawling" in this context. Could you reword?

[Ricochet]

Also, you call his vote "throwaway", but this is particularly the reason why I asked you to think about whether they're only meant to seem throwaway. There's a particular role who could be strategic in his votes where, in fact, he might seem sprawling and Fuzz's vote record definitely caught my eye in this regard. It could be nothing of course, but idk, I feel it's worth saying.

I'm not certain what you mean by "sprawling" in this context. Could you reword?

Having spread in different directions.

[Matt]

If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?

This is a fantastic question posed by scum MacD.

If Elohcin is obv town, and she will not be lynched, why don't the Mafia take her out?

When have they had an opportunity to kill her? How do you know they didn't try and fail?

I'm not trying to lynch her today. Just posing a realistic question.

MacD said "If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?" MacD was scum. He obviously had the answer to this when asking the question.

Epignosis - You were the one who brought up the very idea of Elohcin being recruited. Are you against that idea now?

HOSTS - If a civilian is recruited to the Mafia or with the SK, if lynched, will the town be told they have been recruited or will the role just be revealed?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, you call his vote "throwaway", but this is particularly the reason why I asked you to think about whether they're only meant to seem throwaway. There's a particular role who could be strategic in his votes where, in fact, he might seem sprawling and Fuzz's vote record definitely caught my eye in this regard. It could be nothing of course, but idk, I feel it's worth saying.

I'm not certain what you mean by "sprawling" in this context. Could you reword?

Having spread in different directions.

I suppose I just wouldn't describe his votes as being spread out at all. They are separated from the major wagons, but still quite narrow in focus -- 3 names over 5 day phases.

I only see one role where what you're saying might have any application and if I'm looking in the right place, I don't see it. Not when Fuzz has made a concerted effort to throw shade on Wilgy and get other players to talk about him while placing his solo votes on him three days in a row.

[Epignosis]

If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?

This is a fantastic question posed by scum MacD.

If Elohcin is obv town, and she will not be lynched, why don't the Mafia take her out?

When have they had an opportunity to kill her? How do you know they didn't try and fail?

I'm not trying to lynch her today. Just posing a realistic question.

MacD said "If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?" MacD was scum. He obviously had the answer to this when asking the question.

Epignosis - You were the one who brought up the very idea of Elohcin being recruited. Are you against that idea now?

HOSTS - If a civilian is recruited to the Mafia or with the SK, if lynched, will the town be told they have been recruited or will the role just be revealed?

I was never "for" that idea.

[Matt]

I never said you were "for" it. I said you brought up the idea. Now I'm asking if you are against it?

Please, for once, a straight answer.

[Epignosis]

I never said you were "for" it. I said you brought up the idea. Now I'm asking if you are against it?

Please, for once, a straight answer.

If you want a straight answer, then you're going to have to be clear in your wording. To answer exactly what you have asked:

Yes, I am against killers recruiting.

[Matt]

Epignosis

[Ricochet]

Also, you call his vote "throwaway", but this is particularly the reason why I asked you to think about whether they're only meant to seem throwaway. There's a particular role who could be strategic in his votes where, in fact, he might seem sprawling and Fuzz's vote record definitely caught my eye in this regard. It could be nothing of course, but idk, I feel it's worth saying.

I'm not certain what you mean by "sprawling" in this context. Could you reword?

Having spread in different directions.

I suppose I just wouldn't describe his votes as being spread out at all. They are separated from the major wagons, but still quite narrow in focus -- 3 names over 5 day phases.

I only see one role where what you're saying might have any application and if I'm looking in the right place, I don't see it. Not when Fuzz has made a concerted effort to throw shade on Wilgy and get other players to talk about him while placing his solo votes on him three days in a row.

True, but the concerted effort could be part of the strategy. How would "I'm suspecting X, but voting Y" look better for him?

Anyway, I forgot to mention, but if we're both "looking in the" same "right place", by process of elimination due to how some of the lynches unfolded (especially close ones tally-wise), I'm down to only a few players that could fit the description. Fuzz included.

[Ricochet]

Matt jumping again at Epig's throat? What a development!

[Matt]

Matt jumping again at Epig's throat? What a development!

And it will remain there until he answers whether or not he's against the idea of Elohcin being recruited.

[Marmot]

I'm having some tasty red herring for lunch today. Would you like some Matt?

[Ricochet]

How does your "I'm not trying to lynch her today." answer relate in any way to what Epig asked about the mafia ever trying to kill Eloh or not?

[Matt]

I'm having some tasty red herring for lunch today. Would you like some Matt?

I'm not sure whether you are referring to MacD giving out a red herring or myself, but I'm more concerned with Epig's lack of answer.

Then again, I haven't played for two years, so I'm not sure if Epignosis' "don't really answer any questions" routine is normal.

[Matt]

How does your "I'm not trying to lynch her today." answer relate in any way to what Epig asked about the mafia ever trying to kill Eloh or not?

I have no idea if they've tried to kill her or not. But I do know she's still in the game.

And I know when I asked a simple question, "Are you against the idea of Elohcin being recruited?", Epignosis instead decided to answer "Yes I am against killers recruiting."

His non-answers are not helping the town.

[Matt]

Anyway, I'm goin' out for awhile.

Be back in a couple of hours.

Hopefully, by then, Epignosis has an answer as to whether or not he thinks Elohcin has been recruited.

[sig]

Matt why do you think I'm bad?

I like JJJ case against Fuzz, but will be reading through Fuzz posts and waiting to here their response as I don't yet trust JJJ.

Also for those voting me I would never have targeted LC if we were on the same team, while I didn't vote for him day 1 I did day 2. I also see little reasons for why he would buss me and why I would have defended bea if we were both mafia.

Quick look at Bulls
Voting
Day 1 None (hadn't subbed in yet)
Day 2 Metalmarsh89 (random vote)
Day 3 Russtifinko
Day 4 Devin the Omniscient
Day 5 FingerSplint
Day 6 bcornett24
Day 7 TheFloyd73
Day 8 Russtifinko

Bull's makes some interesting comments, he is suspicious of Sorsha, Golden, and Epi for their defense of LC. Day 3 he votes for Sorsha, he then later in the phases says he thinks Golden is clean and won't be voting for someone who he thinks is civ. Earlier however, he thinks JJJ is right about Golden and golden is mafia. There was a reasonably amount of time so I think this was an honest switch.

He likes FZ argument about Russ and switches his vote, he votes again for Russ on day 8.
Golden suspected Bulls for not lynching him, however I think Bulls defended himself rather well.
Don't see an issue with his Devin vote.
Not sure about his Day 6 vote will need to read over Brian but don't like his Day 5 vote.

Based on what? Dude why are you playing so weird? You are usually better than this.

Diiny early game was strange and since getting some suspicion thrown at him has dropped post count massively, which is a pretty good scum tell.

Will you join my MattF lynchparty? It's pretty fun. We have pie and punch.

Aside from his Sorsha vote, Matt probably isn't bad. Let's not throw any lynchparties just yet.

I like this makes Bull's look more clean.

So not a very good ISO compared to everyone, but reading through Bull's post I think he is civ, he advocated for a Floyd lynch also but in the end voted for Russ.
I will look over Russ and see what I see.

Read over Wilgy, I believe he is civ as well.

[Elohcin]

Eloh - You're like, the quietest player in the game and you're asking about quiet players!!

Am I really? I don't feel quiet.

If Elohcin is obvtown why wouldn't the scum have murderfied Elohcin?

This is a fantastic question posed by scum MacD.

If Elohcin is obv town, and she will not be lynched, why don't the Mafia take her out?

Maybe they don't see me as a threat b/c I am a low poster. Or maybe they did try to kill me and failed like Epi said. Or, maybe Epi is bad and doesn't want to kill his supportive, submissive wife. Nah! That can't be it.

[Bullzeye]

Quick look at Bulls
Voting
Day 1 None (hadn't subbed in yet)
Day 2 Metalmarsh89 (random vote)
Day 3 Russtifinko
Day 4 Devin the Omniscient
Day 5 FingerSplint
Day 6 bcornett24
Day 7 TheFloyd73
Day 8 Russtifinko

I never voted for Splints...

[Marmot]

I never voted for Splints...

Day 1 None (hadn't subbed in yet)
Day 2 Metalmarsh89 (random vote)
Day 3 Russtifinko
Day 4 Draconus
Day 5 Draconus
Day 6 bcornett24
Day 7 TheFloyd73
Day 8 Russtifinko


Better?

[Epignosis]

Anyway, I'm goin' out for awhile.

Be back in a couple of hours.

Hopefully, by then, Epignosis has an answer as to whether or not he thinks Elohcin has been recruited.

If you can't be bothered to read and comprehend exactly what I said the first time we had this conversation, then please send my condolences to the family of that dear, expired horse you will persistently traumatize.

I really don't care that you have voted for me. It says more about you than it does me.

[sig]

Quick look at Bulls
Voting
Day 1 None (hadn't subbed in yet)
Day 2 Metalmarsh89 (random vote)
Day 3 Russtifinko
Day 4 Devin the Omniscient
Day 5 FingerSplint
Day 6 bcornett24
Day 7 TheFloyd73
Day 8 Russtifinko

I never voted for Splints...

Sorry splints voted for the player above you and I misread it.

[Marmot]

Eloh - Here are my G2H reads on "quiet" players (I'm using less then 150 posts as definition of "quiet")

bcornett - GOOD
Bullzeye - Uhh errr ummm BAD
Dr Wilgy - GOOD (not everyone knows about this, but after what he pulled with myself, Mac, Floyd, and Fuzz, I believe he's good solely because of that)
Elohcin - DEFINITELY GOOD UNLESS RECRUITED
Russ - GOOD. While he was telling me how much he hates hints, I believe he hinted his role to me. Of course, if that role shows up dead, then this changes QUICK
sig - BAD

******

Couple of notes

Eloh - You're like, the quietest player in the game and you're asking about quiet players!!

3J - I believe you wanted to lynch sig yesterday, but once he got 2 votes, you switched it up to Radical Fuzz. What gives?

Also shortly, I will pull up a post from MacDougall which makes me question Elohcin's alignment. :P

What about RadicalFuzz?

He has 111 posts.

[sig]

Motel Room
Votes
Day 1 sig (Civ)
Day 2 Long Con (Mafia)
Day 3 Epignosis (Unknown Leaning civ)
Day 4 Sorsha (Civ)
Day 5 espers (Civ)
Day 6 Diiny (Civ)
Day 7 seaside (civ)
Day 8 Russtifinko (Civ)

Dusk Poll voted for Mac and Dr Wilgy just coz.

Question for the group:
Was Bea's reaction to one early, changeable vote an overreaction or an appropriate reaction?
Discuss.

Current track: Brian Eno - Sparrowfall (3) (1:24)

Long Con's reasoning was worded pretty confidently for this early in the game. Seems like a legit response. Out of the two i had more of a gut feel against long con, his confidence and his defence of.

He thinks Bea's response to LC was okay.

I agree with Epi's random voting point, in fact this could be just as dangerous to the civilians as a no lynch for day 1.

so like if I pop a vote on sig here for piggybacking epi's point that to me seems misguided, am i all in or just having some RVS fun?

Votes since he think I'm piggybacking off of Epi only reason he gives will end the day with this vote.

I think your trying to get me to respond in an attempt to make me slip up and get me lynched, and it really isn't my place to tell you who has been suspicious of me that would be like building the case for my own lynch a rather silly thing to do.

well we wouldn't want you to slip up now

I don't like this post, it pings me.

Sig, how would you feel about switching to Long Con with me?

I don't understand this post. He suspicious of me, yet would have switched to LC. He himself though never switches to LC and keeps his vote on me.

I'm not sure how I feel about this MacDougal character.

Seems genuine to me so far. What about him makes you feel otherwise?

Defends Mac still early in the game so it could be nothing, but worth noting.

I think your trying to get me to respond in an attempt to make me slip up and get me lynched, and it really isn't my place to tell you who has been suspicious of me that would be like building the case for my own lynch a rather silly thing to do.

What raises my brows about this one is that you say “make me slip up” as opposed to “make me say something that could be considered a slip up.” I don’t think civvies slip up.

Does that kind of caveat even need to be said? The latter would be the obvious read into it; actually, legitimate scumslips are very rare on RYM, and I'd imagine they are here as well. After all, the matter of who accused sig is an open record for anyone wanting to find it; it was mostly Zebra. Maybe he was afraid to admit that it wasn't really multiple people prior to motel/aokiji's pressuring? Otherwise, the only way I see even the potential for a slip would be if sig is trying to distance from Zebra, in the event that Zebra bussed him. I think that's very unlikely and pretty suicidal though; if sig was lynched and flipped scum, no one is going to go "A-ha, Zebra did bus him!" just because he made a good read on a very early game vote.

My issue with it is the mentality of not wanting to "slip up", wording aside. Town just does shit, scum are worried how they'll look. Mostly. Anyway sig's been more verbose and I guess willing to slip up in his defences so thats a thing.

Okay wait he is still giving a reason for lynching me, yet just awhile ago asked if I would be willing to switch to LC. I believe he asked this to appear more civvie if I flipped civ or if LC ended up getting lynched making him appear civvie also.

LC's vote for Bea did strike me as fake...

I have to get ready and leave for work soon, so it's time to cast a real vote. The bea vote was actually fake. I thought, since votes are changeable, I'd make a fake case and see if I could catch any opportunistic baddies trying to latch on to it and follow the vote. It didn't really bear fruit; looking over BWT's reasons for voting bea, he is coming from a completely different angle. The truth is, bea's behaviour is pretty normal for her, and I don't suspect her much at all.

My real vote today will go to sig. Despite the reasonable explanation he had for my original suspicion of him (that he was crafting his posts too much, in a baddie way), I've found a few of his reactions suspicious. His reaction that I was "distancing" from him when I forgot he was the third player involved in an earlier discussion was bizarre, as was his assertion that I (and others) are "desperate to try and get him lynched".

sig, saying we're desperate to try and get you lynched strikes me in two ways, neither of them making me feel comfortable about you. On one hand, it's overdefensive and paranoid, and on the other, it's a way to buffalo us out of voting for you... because who wants to looks "desperate" to lynch someone on Day 1?

It's not much, but it's the behaviour I found most suspicious today, and it's time for me to lock in a vote.

Sorry for using you, bea!

Feels pressured and gross. Long Con's wording on his vote for bea was so confident. This feels like backpedalling.

Mentions LC more doesn't like him or his vote on me. Yet once again he doesn't switch from his current vote or pursues an LC vote yet.

On day 2 voted for LC switched to Choutas switches back to LC.

Not the time, I know, but it's annoying me. What's the floyd's deal? He's posting regularly on OT as far as I can tell so he's not exactly short on time. Even if he was it's in nobody's best interest to post one off topic thing. Probably some stupid gambit.

I get the feeling he's in a bit over his head, our Floyd.

Not much, some defense of Floyd but something that I'm probably just nitpicking at he says out floyd. Just a manner of speaking, our as in from RYM, or tiny scum slip up our as in on our team? Doubt it but figured I would mention it.

Day 3 starts vote on EPi for his defense of LC ends day with this vote.

still reading through but i'm putting a vote on Sorsha so that I can see where the votes currently are cos otherwise it's just radio buttons.

Day 4 votes Sorsha but, I don't quite understand why he did this.

Calls out Mac for switching from Sorsha.

Matt F's theory is sketchy and I don't why he's so confident about it.

Mac's theory on epi seems more likely and more based in evidence but still just a theory. I'm not comfortable with epi - the Syndicaters are defending his style still but when he was under some attention earlier he came out and did just enough leg work to let it blow over and has returned to sitting pretty. Dunno about the SK but I have no probs voting epi.

Mac himself has mostly seemed towny to me, up until he jumped off his Sorsha wagon and started pursuing Matt F over what started as a mild ping or whatever he called it. After that it seemed like mac was in chaos mode and was less about "who is scum" and more about "what can I get away with". But I say "was" because I like how he responded to Matt F's accusation - I read some others are using this as evidence against but I see it as positive evidence.

One thing I may have missed in catch up - mac, why though are you less concerned with Matt? He's not even in your top 6 thingy atm.

Once again voices suspicions of Epi, still think Mac is towny, but has some misgiving. I can't tell if this is genuine or an attempt to distance himself from a fellow scum.

Who should we make dead, aokiji?

espers or epi.
To a slightly lesser extent, Diiny or Devin.

esper who he later voted for, and Epi who he has multiply times expressed suspicion off.

These elaborate scum bussing strategies that are being put forward, are they common here on the Syndicate? Because while they can happen over on RYM the most common scum strategy is just lay low pretty much. Bussing is rarely organised and generally just a self-preservation technique.

So reading all of this about how Long Con set up this big ol bus seems so far fetched to me. Remembering back to the day he was lynched, he was a contender but not the contender. I'm fairly sure that my return vote on him put him back in the lead and I know I did that from a genuine suspicion of him so I can't really get behind any of these "strategy" scenarios. He may have wanted out and told teammates not to fight it too hard but I really doubt it was a planned bus. My two cents, for the guy who is pretty sure Mac is scum cos of that idea. I still think mac is town.


Black Rock is the next major lynch contender, what's the deal there?

He thinks Mac is town and does some soft defense of him. He also mentions the BK lynch asking what is up with it.

These post really ping me

[quote="motel room"

Motelroom if you think Mac is town(you just said it), would you save him from a lynch? He's the leading vote getter. Or you're going to idly park your vote in a lynch that won't happen?

I would probably vote to save him, yes. We still have 24 hours at least though.[/quote]

Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Day 6 votes Diiny over Mac however he then switches to BK

I could do a black rock vote. Dunno if it'd pick up enough steam

alrighty, Black Rock

But in about an hour he switches to Diiny again.
So he switches from Diiny to BK a scum to Diiny again.

He gives some defense of Floy but not much.

Defends himself against accusations about Mac, saying he thought he was town.

DIINY

DRWILGY

ELOHCIN

EPIGNOSIS

good

good

good

good

Why do you know think Epi and Diiny are clean what changed your mind about them?

Final Thoughts. I really don't like Motel's day 1 he voices some doubt about LC but votes with LC until day 2 when he lynches LC. I believe with Day 1 he was trying to keep his options open between Me and LC so he could switch to LC if he needed to.
His solid defense of Mac seems scummy to me, but he is so aggressive in his defense that it makes me pause. However, he also lynches Diiny and that was a close lynch. I think his defense of Mac makes him look slightly scummy.
Motel Room comes off as looking scummy to me, he pushes epi and diiny but in gun to head thinks they are clean, it seems with Mac's flip he dropped the Diiny lynch. I view this as a scum trying to distance himself from a teammate who flipped mafia. This along with Day 1 and his defense of Mac furthers my view that Motel room is mafia. Though I would like other peoples opinions on Motel Room before I place my vote.

[Matt]

Matt why do you think I'm bad?

The weird "distancing" convo between you and LC is strange. You even brought up how you thought LC was distancing because he forgot your name or somesuch and this was before his role was reveal. Later on, I believe LC suspected you, but went after ME because I questioned you on "seems kinda very". There was one or two other minor things which I forget at the moment. Tbh, I'm leaning neutral on you, but between good and bad, I picked bad.

Am I really? I don't feel quiet.

With regards to amount of posts, I meant.

Maybe they don't see me as a threat b/c I am a low poster. Or maybe they did try to kill me and failed like Epi said. Or, maybe Epi is bad and doesn't want to kill his supportive, submissive wife. Nah! That can't be it.

I figured this...if I was able to figure out your role, then a team of 7 must have been able to, as well. Considering you have voted with Epig consistently the last few lynches (and I'm pretty sure I know why you vote the way you do), I wouldn't be surprised if Epig himself was Mafia or SK and recruited you himself. After all, I've been harping on your civvieness all game and a few other players have said they see what I see, you would be the perfect recruit.

If you can't be bothered to read and comprehend exactly what I said the first time we had this conversation, then please send my condolences to the family of that dear, expired horse you will persistently traumatize.

I really don't care that you have voted for me. It says more about you than it does me.

So basically, all you had to do was say "I think it's possible", but instead made jokes about not wanting killers to recruit, and then say stuff like "If you bothered to read the thread"... Gotcha

What about RadicalFuzz?

He has 111 posts.

He replaced in Day 3 or 4, and I figured with 111 posts, he wasn't exactly a "quiet" player. But G2H...good.

Motel Room
Votes
Day 1 sig (Civ)
Day 2 Long Con (Mafia)
Day 3 Epignosis (Unknown Leaning civ)
Day 4 Sorsha (Civ)
Day 5 espers (Civ)
Day 6 Diiny (Civ)
Day 7 seaside (civ)
Day 8 Russtifinko (Civ)

Uhhhmmmm...I agree with Russ and not sure on Diiny...but why do you have Epig as "unknown leaning civ" and Diiny and Russ (who are also unknown) as straight "civ" ?

[Epignosis]

By all means, Matt, lynch me now and throw the game because there's more tinfoil coming from your head than sound ideas.

[Matt]

HOSTS - If a civilian is recruited to the Mafia or with the SK, if lynched, will the town be told they have been recruited or will the role just be revealed?

In case they miss it the first time

[Matt]

By all means, Matt, lynch me now and throw the game because there's more tinfoil coming from your head than sound ideas.

It's really not my fault that you couldn't simply say "Yeah Matt, that might be possible" instead of what you did.

Either way, I'd really like sig to answer my question regarding Russ and Diiny

[sig]

typo on my part they should both be leaning civ as well.

I'm seeing Diiny as civ lean because he became the counter wagon to Mac, common sense says he should be clean, so slight civ lean.
Russ I don't recall being suspicious of him this game or getting many pings so at this point he is civ lean as well.

[sig]

I will be quickly looking over Russ again, what is the case against him since he has been a candidate for lynches and I can't seem to recall what the suscpioun is based on.