[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Marmot]

MFW Rico makes 500 posts and then scumslips

Now I feel obliged to ISO him.

[Ricochet]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

RICOCHET

[Marmot]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

I think this is the more likely case.

But you still deserve a look at least.

[Matt]

I think I ISO'd Rico already or something similar, let me see if I can find it...

1am where you are? It's 4pm here! Woo!

[Elohcin]

MFW Rico makes 500 posts and then scumslips

That's what I thought.

[Ricochet]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

RICOCHET

[Ricochet]

This is going to be a strange request...

Can everyone tell Elohcin a joke this day phase? Thanks!

I scumslip as mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

RICOCHET

You played a great game, so don't kick yourself too much. Shit happens sometimes.

[Elohcin]

I think I ISO'd Rico already or something similar, let me see if I can find it...

1am where you are? It's 4pm here! Woo!

7pm here

[Matt]

Nice result, peeps. I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't vote for Floyd

3J - Do you remember a long time ago (relative to this game lol), you suspected Ricochet because at one point, Long Con states that "if either Bea or Rico turn up bad, it's time to look at the other" ? I believe you actually voted for Rico that day when you brought it up.

Well, I noticed that post just now when ISOIng you. And then I remembered Black Rock saying (twice) how much she loved Rico's "LC interactions" post.

Here are Rico's lynch votes...

Day 1 - Bea
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden
Day 4 - Devin
Day 5 - espers
Day 6 - MacDougall
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh

^----He hasn't repeated a vote all game.

Also, as I've pointed out a bajillion times, Ricochet voted for Option 6 during Day 0 in the Syndicate thread, which at the time had ZERO votes. Essentially making it harder for us Syndicateers to make sure there were no ties as MP asked.

Looking over his relationship with Mac (even though he would eventually help vote Mac off the island)...

-Mac disagrees with your case on Ricochet and asks you to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead.
-Initially Mac says he doesn't like your case simply because of the "Talking Heads" lyrics...then shortly thereafter suspects Rico for "Talking Heads" lyrics
-Rico explains why he's doing those lyrics (the contest), MacD claims "oh I didn't see that"
-asks Choutas to make a case on Ricochet instead of asking the SK to kill him



What has Rico's feelings been on Floyd? I need to check that out.

ISO Ricochet CTRLing Floyd

Skittle reads Floyd orange (mildly bad?) with a sarcastic "Must be town" (interesting because MacD was very suspicious of players who were saying this for real)

So are you going to give us that one read or not?

Floyd is town.

I've lost the context, but I believe this to be sarcastic.

And you may find yourself just as irked by Floyd's statement as I am. It's in complete dissonance with him doing enough in the thread to never drop under the participation score - posted at least once every Day (so within the 72 hours requirement), made ghost votes each Day (each and every one completely left field of the main topics), thus we can also assume he sent his night powers as well. This isn't cluelessness and inability to play the right way. Why didn't he take advantage of the three-Day replacement window to sub out, if he's a lone civ, swamped in RL, overwhelmed by the game?

In my experience, the popular perception would be that baddie lurkers would make their baddie teammates anxious enough for them to try to push them to participate more. But given the stage of Floyd's inactivity makes me think that, if he's bad, the team can equally suggest that he cultivates this persona further. If Floyd is bad, they can win advantadge every time the lynch goes elsewhere, postponing the eventual Day when Floyd would get lynched or removed. When that Day would come, they could also buss him hard and unanimously. Granted, if they actually attempted right now to have him stick to his thing, his "I don't know what's happening" still comes off pretty unconvincing or, at least, contradictory.

^----Ricochet, I know I'm suspecting you right now, but given what you said here, how do you feel about Floyd's voters today? (except for Eloh)

COMPLETELY UNRELATED - Btw, I happened to notice during Rico's second skittles read, Mac is once again a green skittle.

Once again, Floyd is an orange (mildly bad?) skittles read.

I noticed Floyd switching to Eloh and not giving one bit of statement on it and this is how I feel about him right about now

Floyd continues on the WTF path.

COMPLETELY UNRELATED - I noticed Ricochet did not like my "Mac is SK" theory at all and pushed against it.

I have no objections to a Floyd lynch, but if JJJ is mafia, I can't take any chances to have contributed to his counterwagon succeeding, either.

He votes Choutas on this day, completely avoiding a 3J, Floyd, or Seaside vote. Whoops! I think I get what you mean by "strong language", 3J, regarding "completely". Haha guess I do do that.

>snip<

Read
His votes are the part I like the least. They are all random up until D6, when he corrects a vote on Mac and D7, when he votes JJJ in an apologetic way, when the JJJ wagon was up at 3 or 4. MacBaddie called his voting "mimetic", but he's wrong (or deceitfully so), Floyd has never imitated, bandwagoned or coattailed (up until, I reckon, today in fact). His D1 to D4 votes are devoid of any interpretation or logic, his D5-D6 votes feels like drumming on Matt and if he's baddie, the JJJ vote feels, depending on how JJJ might flip, either like finally lunging at a victim or bussing at first response.

I find it very interesting how much conscious effort MacBaddie has put into addressing Floyd overall, and true to his role, he flip-flopped very much on the subject, from "Leave him be guys" to "ooh scum slip" and "null read" and "suddenly, an SK profiling appears". I'm also surprised of Black Rock actually making a statement herself on how to interpret Floyd's behaviour. If Floyd is bad, this is clear distancing, and Floyd's D6 mention of voting Mac, then nah, makes him look bad.

As for everything else, he hasn't been hooked to the game at all for the most part, with some semblance of an attempt to switch to a better gear during the last few Days. I'm not sure if his two notorious statements are scumslips, but I admit of not liking how much this dillema lingers without any resolve. He's frequently tell off players during rebuttals, rather than trying to set things straight, which gives me pause. The way I see it, he misinterpreted Matt's questioning as an offence to his personal issues and has since found it easy to drum on Matt being meanie and baddie and such.

IDK this feels on a very thin line between a civ game that's just unfortunately not very solid (strictly in-game speaking, I can emphatise with RL messing it up) and a potential teammate lurker, from which two out of three confirmed mafia may have taken clear distance. If I can focus on better baddie candidates after these reads, I probably would, but I also wouldn't oppose a lynch in this direction.

One thing I haven't picked up is any vouching that Floyd might be good, despite his gameplay - which makes me believe that someone like the checker didn't have any real interest either in settling things about him, or that he may have in fact done that by now and the verdict is negative.

Again, doesn't oppose a Floyd lynch, but won't vote for him.

In one of his latest posts, Rico kind of pings on sig for saying (among other things, granted) "I could go for a Floyd lynch but I'm not sure about him". Isn't this kind of what Rico has been saying???

*****

I dunno. I feel like Rico was pinged by Floyd several times in the game, and yet twice, says he doesn't object to a Floyd lynch, but won't pull the trigger himself.

As 3J said, whether Rico is mafia or not, he has put in a helluva lotta work in this game, so I think I'll need more then this to justify a Rico vote. However, I will continue to ISO Rico with CTRLing on "Long Con", "Mac", and "Black Rock"

I'm breathing, Epi, I swear! :P

Also, sorry to everyone who decides to scroll past this and says "Why doesn't Matt use spoiler tags?!?"

[Elohcin]

This is going to be a strange request...

Can everyone tell Elohcin a joke this day phase? Thanks!

I scumslip as mafia.

okay, okay

[Ricochet]

Me derping at 1am sounds more likely, I'd say.

Off to bed soon.

RICOCHET

You played a great game, so don't kick yourself too much. Shit happens sometimes.

Seriously, any time you want to stop with this...

You've just had me as a teammate back in Syndicate and you seriously believe I'd spaghetti myself as mafia?

[Ricochet]

Did you get my answers to your ISO, Matt, by the way?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You've just had me as a teammate back in Syndicate and you seriously believe I'd spaghetti myself as mafia?

You pretty much just answered that question yourself. I have a lot of respect for your game man, but everyone makes mistakes.

[Choutas]

RadicalFuzz stuff about Floyd:

Spoiler: show

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

And, to others, Floyd is not a replacement, correct?

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

Do you mean the thread text?

Yes, Floyd, how much of the thread text have you read?

Um. My brain is just screaming at me right now, and I don't know whether it's real insight or I am having a Matt F moment (just playing with you man )

But look at this thing right here: everyone's favorite Floyd slip is sandwiched within a couple Fuzz questions. We can't give Fuzz credit for causing the slip because there's nothing in his initial question that promotes that slip happening... it just did. Floyd literally asked Fuzz whether me meant "have you kept up with the game thread" or "have you kept up with stuff outside the game thread?".

Is that because Fuzz and Floyd had also engaged in some manner of non-thread discourse about this game, and Floyd had a major oopsie moment?

Spoiler: show

Floyd looks bad, no two ways about it. I'm aware that he's had a horrible situation and that's why his contribution is so low, but even the posts he has made have been borderline scumslips. "Do you mean the in-thread text" being the prime example, to me.

Despite that, I'm not going to lynch him on that unless I have to. For a game of this size to be his first, particularly with the bad timing of his IRL situation, he deserves a chance. I'm familiar with at least part of his position, entering into a large game and being overwhelmed, and I'm not going to lynch him for what he's done so far.

I'm aware this is illogical, and likely unpopular. If the time comes that he participates in the thread and says things that I find suspicious, then I will vote him. Until that point, I'm not going to vote for Floyd. I don't condemn any votes against him, it's a perfectly logical move, but I won't join.

The Floyd slip happened on Day 4, but Fuzz doesn't acknowledge it until Day 6 (unless I'm missing something). And when he acknowledges it, he does so in clear language: It's a slip, and it looks terrible. Despite making that read though, he elects not to promote a Floyd lynch because of general noob challenges and his game-external circumstance.

Spoiler: show

Wilgy you, as a Mafia player who understands the game, are aware of something. Information is king. Suspicions, reads, inklings, any game-relevant information helps town (barring extremes like knowing who Medic/UC are), and every civilian should aim to increase the total knowledge base of the town by giving their information as best they can. Your contributions have been raw vote data, trying to get bcornett to answer a question, and now implying you believe I'm dirty. If this is all you have to your name after six days, you are not helping the town win.

I thought my stance on Floyd was clear earlier but I'll reiterate. He looks bad, for the most part completely objectively. The logical conclusion if he looks objectively bad is that he is most likely bad. I will not be voting for him for illogical reasons. The reason I'm not going over any other players for the particularly same reason as you, Wilgy, is because I don't know them. I'm not going to assume that I know what Roxy believes to be good town play. I know that you're aware of your low contribution, but rather than trying to fix the problem you're attempting a No U, and that's not the correct move for town Wilgy here.

Motel, since you're familiar with the series, let's play a game. If I was L, who would Near be?

Epi, I'm trying to stress that ease of lynching is a minimal factor for my decision making process. Blame me for suggesting a Chinese fire drill, as I did, but don't omit that I wanted a Chinese fire drill onto my suspect in Wilgy.

J3, those are my suspicions against him. They're amplified because I know he doesn't believe in playing town like he currently is, however. I don't expect other players to have that coefficient due to familiarity, but I'll offer a substitution. Wilgy stated that he and I play very well off of each other. Has he made attempts to reach out to me in the thread, or has it been me attempting to work with him?

Fuzz reiterates the prior stances later on Day 6.

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

GOOD

BAD

GOOD

GOOD

BAD

GTH reads Floyd bad on Day 7.

Fuzz voted for DrWilgy on Day 7 and again on Day 8. Both times his vote was alone.

~~~

Fuzz: you've been begging ever since you joined us to be read as a bad guy. Congratulations, it's your time to shine!

This looks awful.

Am I willing to lynch this guy today? Yeah.

This doesn't look good at all. I'm willing to considerate a Radicalfuzz. I don't say that only to say it btw.
I also have this personal opinion that scum replacements are always better at the start than any kind of town replacement. That's just how it has been for me in games. His start was surprising considering he had to read an enormous amount of posts and join discussions right off the bat. How often does coaching happen on TS? It isn't big on RYM but still happens in small doses especially to guys who come midway or newbies.

PS: MM the other two don't work for me.

[Matt]

Ricochet, I did.

Really I don't even know how I feel about this "scum slip" of yours.

You did just blatantly say that "But Mac hasn't voted for any of his teammates this game." I don't know what to make of that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[Ricochet]

You've just had me as a teammate back in Syndicate and you seriously believe I'd spaghetti myself as mafia?

You pretty much just answered that question yourself. I have a lot of respect for your game man, but everyone makes mistakes.

I've answered what? The answer to that should be no.

Also, nope.

[Ricochet]

Ricochet, I did.

Really I don't even know how I feel about this "scum slip" of yours.

You did just blatantly say that "But Mac hasn't voted for any of his teammates this game." I don't know what to make of that.

Because I was thinking of teammates already confirmed.

A derp is a derp.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lol

Well there's one more way to read Rico.

RADICALFUZZ

[Matt]

The facts besides your "scum slip" Ricochet.

Long Con seemed insistent that if Bea or you turn up bad, we look at the other.

Black Rock posted a link to your "LC interactions" twice, and said she loved it.

You didn't want to vote for Floyd.

Mac asked 3J to ditch his case on you and instead look at Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead. Mac also requested that Choutas build a case on you instead of asking the SK to kill you.

I dunno, this doesn't look good.

[Marmot]

Did you get my answers to your ISO, Matt, by the way?

One could say the same about Golden. But then in Gentlemen's Guide to Mafia, we were cruising to a win. We had tried to kill Dom Night 1. It went through, but then was reversed and he was actually recruited from the civilians to our team because of his role. Then Golden let slip what Dom's role was and almost botched it for us because he was promptly NK'd by the civ ninja.

So yeah, everyone makes mistakes.

[Ricochet]

The facts besides your "scum slip" Ricochet.

Long Con seemed insistent that if Bea or you turn up bad, we look at the other.

Black Rock posted a link to your "LC interactions" twice, and said she loved it.

You didn't want to vote for Floyd.

Mac asked 3J to ditch his case on you and instead look at Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie) instead. Mac also requested that Choutas build a case on you instead of asking the SK to kill you.

I dunno, this doesn't look good.

I was hounted by JJJ a full Day for that LC linking. Not going back to that. LC's bullsuit case on bea includes every linking he did being bullsuit.

I talked about BR's mention of my reads. She never elaborated on them, despite saying she will. Empty praise is empty. You're literally making apophenia out of claiming that means something. Oh wait. Hi Matt!

Explained it already.

Explained it already. So wait, Mac "saved" me and I returned the favor by hunting his ass down?

[Matt]

You also seem to be pretty sure that everything I've laid out against Epignosis and 3J has been wrong the last few days. Heck, even earlier when I felt we were having a legitimate convo about recruiters, you "face palmed". Why? Is that really out of the realm of possibility?

Dude, I dunno. I'm wondering why 3J took his vote off of you, put it back on Fuzz, like that will somehow show your alignment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Explained it already. So wait, Mac "saved" me and I returned the favor by hunting his ass down?

Why wouldn't think make sense?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Explained it already. So wait, Mac "saved" me and I returned the favor by hunting his ass down?

Why wouldn't think this make sense?

EBWOP

[Ricochet]

Did you get my answers to your ISO, Matt, by the way?

One could say the same about Golden. But then in Gentlemen's Guide to Mafia, we were cruising to a win. We had tried to kill Dom Night 1. It went through, but then was reversed and he was actually recruited from the civilians to our team because of his role. Then Golden let slip what Dom's role was and almost botched it for us because he was promptly NK'd by the civ ninja.

So yeah, everyone makes mistakes.

Well I didn't and I don't.

If I'm Mafia, I'm basically 24h en garde. I got lynched once so far because my role was wide blown.

If I'm not, I get hounded, hunter or mislynched for various reasons that don't prove anything. Like omelettes. Or apparently soft defending mafiosos. Or apparently never mentioning mafioso. Or not voting mafioso at the right time (such as their flip time). And the list goes on...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dude, I dunno. I'm wondering why 3J took his vote off of you, put it back on Fuzz, like that will somehow show your alignment.

You don't use votes the same way I do. I see them as a tool, you see them as an absolute indicator of a baddie read.

[Ricochet]

Explained it already. So wait, Mac "saved" me and I returned the favor by hunting his ass down?

Why wouldn't think this make sense?

EBWOP

Because of what Epig said a while ago. It'd be piss poor mafia strategising.

[Marmot]

You also seem to be pretty sure that everything I've laid out against Epignosis and 3J has been wrong the last few days. Heck, even earlier when I felt we were having a legitimate convo about recruiters, you "face palmed". Why? Is that really out of the realm of possibility?

Dude, I dunno. I'm wondering why 3J took his vote off of you, put it back on Fuzz, like that will somehow show your alignment.

Because Fuzz's slip (or rather Floyd's slip wert Fuzz) looks more like a slip than this current one from Ricochet? I can't answer directly for Jay, but there's a good amount ofevidence, in my opinion, to lynch RadicalFuzz, and that's why my vote is currently there.

[Ricochet]

You also seem to be pretty sure that everything I've laid out against Epignosis and 3J has been wrong the last few days. Heck, even earlier when I felt we were having a legitimate convo about recruiters, you "face palmed". Why? Is that really out of the realm of possibility?

Dude, I dunno. I'm wondering why 3J took his vote off of you, put it back on Fuzz, like that will somehow show your alignment.

Don't twist my facepalm at an ad nauseam back and forth between you and Epig as a reaction to the recruiter thing having any validity.

Don't twist my reads on those two players not matching yours as something written "against" your own reads.

3J wants a Fuzz scum flip so it can heighten everything he suspects me for - in fact, basically seal it for him. Totally predictable and hey, in his own words, "shit happens" (I just pointed out how many times I've been mislynched for stuff blowing up in my face), but it won't make it any less of a hunt blunder.

[Elohcin]

lol

Well there's one more way to read Rico.

RADICALFUZZ

I think this is a good idea. I am getting behind it. RadicalFuzz

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, I'm not lynching Rico on Day 9. I took the opportunity to poke him a little bit, but there are better suspects all over the poll.

[Matt]

Dude, I dunno. I'm wondering why 3J took his vote off of you, put it back on Fuzz, like that will somehow show your alignment.

You don't use votes the same way I do. I see them as a tool, you see them as an absolute indicator of a baddie read.

To be fair, I believe this is the first game I've ever played where votes are changeable throughout the day phase. So typically, yes I see votes as an indicator of a baddie read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J wants a Fuzz scum flip so it can heighten everything he suspects me for - in fact, basically seal it for him. Totally predictable and hey, in his own words, "shit happens" (I just pointed out how many times I've been mislynched for stuff blowing up in my face), but it won't make it any less of a hunt blunder.

Excuse me, what?

Exactly none of this is true.

[Matt]

Well if ya all are still voting for Fuzz, then I want to know...

If Fuzz were to flip civvie, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

If Fuzz were to flip mafia, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

[Ricochet]

3J wants a Fuzz scum flip so it can heighten everything he suspects me for - in fact, basically seal it for him. Totally predictable and hey, in his own words, "shit happens" (I just pointed out how many times I've been mislynched for stuff blowing up in my face), but it won't make it any less of a hunt blunder.

Excuse me, what?

Exactly none of this is true.

Oh? Was just my impression then.

So, in theory, if RF flips mafia, you won't feel worse about me? How?

linki: ninja'd

[Ricochet]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

[Marmot]

Well if ya all are still voting for Fuzz, then I want to know...

If Fuzz were to flip civvie, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

If Fuzz were to flip mafia, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

Nothing.

I've not seen a clear link between Fuzz and Ricochet. I don't see a reason, at this moment, to draw conclusions on Ricochet from Fuzz's alignment.

[Elohcin]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

This is how I read it as well.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So, in theory, if RF flips mafia, you won't feel worse about me? How?

How is this not self-explanatory?

If your "slip" was really a slip, then that would imply you know that Mac never voted for one of his team mates on Day 1. Mac voted for reywaS/RadicalFuzz on Day 1. If you're mafia and that's a slip, then Fuzz can't be mafia.

This entire thought process is not important to me though because I don't think it was a slip.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

I voted for Fuzz because he is my top suspect. My vote for Fuzz has nothing to do with you.

I jaunted over to a Rico vote for a moment because it was a manner of putting surprise pressure right in your face while you're here to talk about it -- particularly when you'd just made a post that could be interpreted as a slip. I never really thought it was a slip, but I still took advantage of the chance to poke you and see what happens.

When I said "there's one more way to read Rico", I was referring to your supposed slip and then your reactions to being accused of that slip. That's all relevant material that can be judged. That's kind of the point of what I did.

[Marmot]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

Oh, I misunderstood Jay's vote back to RadicalFuzz then.

[Ricochet]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

I voted for Fuzz because he is my top suspect. My vote for Fuzz has nothing to do with you.

I jaunted over to a Rico vote for a moment because it was a manner of putting surprise pressure right in your face while you're here to talk about it -- particularly when you'd just made a post that could be interpreted as a slip. I never really thought it was a slip, but I still took advantage of the chance to poke you and see what happens.

When I said "there's one more way to read Rico", I was referring to your supposed slip and then your reactions to being accused of that slip. That's all relevant material that can be judged. That's kind of the point of what I did.

Oh.

1:39am

Sleep it is, then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

Oh, I misunderstood Jay's vote back to RadicalFuzz then.

No you didn't. I voted back to Fuzz because I am suspicious of him more than I am of anyone else.

Rico is not relevant to that vote.

*pounds head against desk*

[Elohcin]

You've literally said "there's one more way to read Rico" followed by an RF vote.

How was I supposed not to interpret that as lynch RF, if scum, pitchfork Rico?

This is how I read it as well.

Wouldn't it be if he RF isn't scum? Since Mac voted for him and you said he never voted for scum? My head is going in circles

yes, upon further reading, I think I am correct

[Marmot]

Careful there Jay, "donut" hurt yourself.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well if ya all are still voting for Fuzz, then I want to know...

If Fuzz were to flip civvie, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

If Fuzz were to flip mafia, what does this mean in regards to Ricochet, in your opinion?

Neither of those flips would have a meaningful impact upon my Rico read, at least not in light of the "slip". I'd have to do a more full review to get a grasp of that more conclusively.

[Elohcin]

For the record, I understood JJJ's vote and I still agree with it. I don't think Rico slipped either. I think getting RF will clear his name And even if RF is civ, that doesn't mean Rico is bad.