[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

#6851

BULLZEYE

Day 1 - Not replace in yet.
Day 2 - Metalmarsh89
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Russtifinko
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 6 - bcornett
Day 7 - TheFloyd73
Day 8 - Russtifinko
Day 9 - Russtifinko

CHOUTAS

Day 1 - rundontwalk ---> MacDougall ---> DrWilgy
Day 2 - Devin the Omniscient ---> Long Con
Day 3 - Ricochet ---> Sorsha
Day 4 - Sorsha
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 6 - sig ---> Diiny
Day 7 - TheFloyd73
Day 8 - TheFloyd73
Day 9 - [urlhttp://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php ... 63#p188663]sig[/url]

#6852

BULLZEYE

Day 1 - Not replace in yet.
Day 2 - Metalmarsh89
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Russtifinko
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 6 - bcornett
Day 7 - TheFloyd73
Day 8 - Russtifinko
Day 9 - Russtifinko

CHOUTAS

Day 1 - rundontwalk ---> MacDougall ---> DrWilgy
Day 2 - Devin the Omniscient ---> Long Con
Day 3 - Ricochet ---> Sorsha
Day 4 - Sorsha
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient
Day 6 - sig ---> Diiny
Day 7 - TheFloyd73
Day 8 - TheFloyd73
Day 9 - sig

#6853

Day 10 rainbow list.

JJJ
motel room
Metalmarsh89

Strawhenge

Diiny
RadicalFuzz
DrWilgy

Ricochet
Russtifinko

Bullzeye

Most rogue behavioured players: Rico, Russ and MM

#6854

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marsh is off the poll. This would be an ideal time to case Choutas, Straw.

By all means guys.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Alright, stupid laundry is finished. I have a little time to do some work in this game before I head to bed. I'm going to make my best effort to place everyone in the game at a totally clean slate (acknowledging that biases from developed perspectives are difficult to shed) and reassess each player in the game with all known information in mind. It's likely that these posts will be quite large because I am going to be scanning each ISO with a fine-toothed comb. I'll include a conclusion at the end of each which will function as a "TL;DR" section. I'll start from the bottom alphabetically.

I don't demand that everyone read every word I produce in this exercise, but I would encourage everyone to at least pay attention to the conclusions. I want to field real discussion about this content -- town's only chance is to play with a sense of urgency and to stay motivated. I don't endorse a torrential downpouring of posts that will make the thread impossible to keep up with; I endorse everyone doing their homework based on the wealth of information already available to us in this thread.

We've all been playing this game for nearly a month. Wouldn't it be nice to win it? Even if you haven't put literally 1,000 posts into this game like I have, I know you've all put something into it. If you're on my side, I want your hard work to pay off. I really appreciate that everyone has really put so much into the game and I hope we can bring it home.

If you're inherently unnerved or annoyed by me being a cheesy motivational speaker, I'm sorry. This is just who I am not only as a player but also as a person in general. I have a team out there somewhere and I want this as much for you folks as I do for myself. Let's go.

We're all trying bro. We'll win this game you have my word for it. Have I ever let you down?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:A little something for the people who have expressed suspicion of Choutas a Psycho Killer candidate:

Choutas as a Last Man Standing rogue in RYM #39

This game was three years ago, so take any conclusions you may draw with a grain of salt. I haven't made the comparison myself, but the thought occurred to me that this is available so I figured I might as well put it here.

I miss the early RYM games. Someone could post 70 posts all game and nobody would call him/her a low contributor like they do over here

#6855

Reassessment of Strawhenge:

Dusk 0 votes: None

Spoiler: show

Voiced suspicion of seaside on Day 1 based on his conduct in the RYM Day 0 thread. The accusation seems worthy of the Day 1 poo-fling flavor; I do not immediately doubt his sincerity.

Strawhenge gives his immediate thoughts of some Day 1 content for a handful of players /// And again on Night 1

Strawhenge has gotten into trouble as a bad guy by shoving summary content like this into the thread earlier than would be sensible (RYM #86), so with that in mind I think we should hesitate before accepting this effort as an inherently good look. Still, this came late in Day 1 and into Night 1, which suggests he did have enough time and content to work with that his material is more believable -- plus I think the points he makes are reasonable within context. He expresses some healthy paranoia about me (as he always is likely to do post-RYM #82

). He expressed very mild suspicion of Long Con in the Night 1 post.

Day 1 vote: seaside (1st of 1)

If there's anything to say about his vote, it's that he picked someone that he didn't cover in his most substantive contribution of Day 1. Still, he did voice suspicion of seaside before that so it didn't come out of nowhere.

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge engaged MacDougall in a little brief banter and then prodded him for his thoughts in a general context. Mac was present in the thread at this time and posting actively, so it lined up temporally with Straw's appearance. When I look at the banter I don't feel pinged. I don't think this conversation is more or less likely to happen between team mates and I'll call it null. If there's anything that can be said about it, perhaps Straw threw Mac a softball prod to give him a springboard from which to produce relevant posts. That implies specific intent though which is a difficult case to make for such inconsequential content.

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge supports a point made by MacDougall with regard to people arbitrarily labeling TheFloyd73 as a town read on Day 1. Straw clarifies that he doesn't have any negative feelings about TheFloyd73, but doesn't understand how anyone could derive positive vibes from his limited content in his very first Mafia game. The perspective being espoused by Strawhenge mirrors my own from that stage of the game: I had Floyd as a dead neutral read because really getting anything out of his content without having to squeeze harder than is logical was impossible. My instincts tell me that I shouldn't be concerned that Straw was backing a point made by Mac in this case: I think fortune just made it so based on timing. The person who made the point he found agreeable happened to be Floyd's own team mate.

It's a two-scum-at-once incident though so I'd welcome any thoughts to the contrary. It's an important moment in the Strawhenge ISO.

Spoiler: show

HamburgerBoy presents a theory in TheFloyd73's favor (that his team mates would have pressured him to replace out). Strawhenge turns it away, suggesting the size of the scum team is more than enough for them to give him time to get acclimated.

Spoiler: show

"Psycho Killer isn't fucking around, killing Burger."

Strawhenge, what did you mean by this? What about Burger as a kill choice inspires this statement that the killer "isn't fucking around"?

Spoiler: show

Talks with sig about possible motives for the Burger kill choice by the SK, names three players who Burger talked about on Day 1. Perhaps Straw's interest in the matter of the SK could be called "greater than the mean".

Spoiler: show

Digs up more data, this time related to the night kill of kneel4justice. Strawhenge's early effort is definitely adequate, and he is applying his skillset to hunting both baddie factions using consistent methodology.

Spoiler: show

Sorsha threw an accusation Straw's way, that he was interested in pursuing data from k4j's posts as a diversion from his own kill choice. Straw said he was gauging reactions. I would at least call this an unexpected response: I got the impression Strawhenge's primary objective when investigating k4j's ISO was to draw forth meaningful data -- not to incite reactions.

Spoiler: show

Agrees with a ping-of-sorts expressed by rundontwalk about Devin the Omniscient, but offers a caveat to lessen the severity of that ping to a rather arbitrary "40%, maybe less".

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge continues to wonder aloud about seaside's early town read on TheFloyd73 -- asserting that seaside's premature read might be the result of inside information. My perspective of this post is a mixed bag: on one hand, I think it's to Straw's credit that he seemed to be genuinely trying to eek out some kind of real insight from seaside's bizarre behavior while also getting Floyd's alignment wrong (seaside can't have had inside information on Floyd being town because Floyd was not town). On the other hand, at this point in the game I think it would have been impossible for anyone to have inside knowledge of anyone's alignment based on the roles in this game so it's a bit of a moot point.

Spoiler: show

TheFloyd73 made a random thread appearance and Strawhenge immediately prodded him with a few questions. The first question is decent enough -- Floyd made a vote and that did demand an explanation. The second question is impossible for Floyd to answer though regardless of his alignment (unless he can see into seaside's brain), and the third question is banter. I like Straw's initiative in prodding Floyd, but the content of that prodding is not very inspired.

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge votes seaside again, unconvinced by his insistence on TheFloyd73 as a town read.

Spoiler: show

Regarding Straw's prior assertion that he was looking for reactions in his quick analysis of k4j's posts, he did produce results of some sort. He was displeased with the responses he got from thellama73 and Epignosis.

Spoiler: show

Dramatizes his suspicion of seaside and names thellama73 as his second biggest suspect.

Day 2 vote: seaside (2nd of 2)

There's clearly material to support his vote in his post history, but it's still an underwhelming choice. seaside was never a serious wagon on Day 2, and this was obviously the phase that ended in Long Con's death. Straw's vote was the 10th of the phase though, so it was pretty early and none of the major EOD wagons had taken off yet.

Strawhenge produces quick Long Con interaction compilation.

This is the second straight phase in which Straw has jumped right into investigation very quickly within his own ISO. His initiative is a good look, but I wish there were more stances here. He produced a lot of quality information here without making his own stance heard on most of it.

Spoiler: show

To be fair though, Straw does seem to start analyzing his production soon thereafter. Here he suggests the two worst looks were for seaside and Sorsha. He reiterates his suspicion of thellama73.

Spoiler: show

Drops a vote on Sorsha in light of his prior stated suspicions. At points in this game I have labeled Strawhenge as a player who can exhibit town tells based on the emotions he conveys in his posts. Straw is the nicest human being in existence, and I honestly think it would be difficult for him to be critical of someone's "tactic" with this sort of language as a mafia-aligned player. I don't mean that as a slight on Straw at all, I think he plays Mafia in a very respectable way and I try to emulate his approach to good-spirited Mafia play. This highlighted portion is an example of the kind of thing that has made me gut-read Straw as town. I do acknowledge though that this is a dangerous perch to stand on, because if he ever catches on to my read and decides he doesn't want to be readable in that regard then he is capable of changing his ways.

Spoiler: show

Reiterates his suspicion of seaside and Sorsha again, and places a vote for Golden. I don't believe I've seen anything about Golden before this point in Strawhenge's posts, so this is a surprise. Maybe he'll explain soon in the posts.

He explained it soon in the posts.

He built a substantive case against Golden. It seemed to hinge primarily upon Golden's treatment of me during the Day 3 EOD frenzy and Golden's defense of LC.

Spoiler: show

Engages Golden directly about his perspective of me and of my Day 3 case against Ricochet. I do think Strawhenge appears genuine in his attempts to ask meaningful questions and to express continued healthy paranoia about me. He seems to be exploring both sides of the story for both Golden and I in this discussion and I like that. Eventually Straw changed his vote again before the tally expired.

Day 3 vote: Sorsha (2nd of 4)

This marks the 3rd straight phase in which Strawhenge has left his final vote on a third-party or independent wagon which eventually yielded a town flip. There has been ample content in each case though that his consistency cannot be questioned. So far I think he looks more like a wrong townie than an evasive mafioso.

Spoiler: show

Here in the above quote and following link, I observe Strawhenge being pinged by a moment in Devin's posts before thoroughly examining him and coming to a slight town read. I think this quick progression is a rare tool within players' mafia-aligned skillset. It's not easy to pick out a small ping and then immediately discard it after doing real legwork. That's a counterproductive scum maneuver to use against a confirmed townie in Devin. This is a nice look for Strawhenge.

Spoiler: show

At this point Strawhenge had been one of Sorsha's most vocal opponents in the thread for a long while, and I pressed him to justify his perspective in light of some thoughtful defenses by Sorsha. He granted that her responses were "cogent", but seemed generally unimpressed and maintained his stance against her. I do think he was being a bit stubborn because even at the time I found Sorsha's defenses strong enough that her detractors should reconsider their positions.

Day 4 vote: Sorsha (4th of 10)

He made it clear on numerous occasions why he was suspicious of Sorsha. Judging his vote is a matter of deciding whether his stated cases against Sorsha were genuinely reasoned or contrived. I lean to the former, but I think his treatment of Sorsha was probably less objective in this discussion than he was in his treatment of other players. This might be the most troubling area of Straw's post history.

Spoiler: show

Straw's campaign against Metalmarsh89 begins on Day 5. He draws up a quick scumlist. This list might have just been pure gut, but some of the names do surprise. I don't think he had said much of anything about espers prior to this point, and most of his assessments of me seemed to yield positive-inclined results (even with the oft-mentioned healthy paranoia). I'm not sure why we were on that list.

Spoiler: show

TheFloyd73 makes a vague comment and Strawhenge prods him to expand.

Spoiler: show

This is Straw's response to TheFloyd73 calling him a "rival" in what has become accepted as a genuine scumslip. It's a rather tame response, but it also begs the question to anyone: if this is a scumslip, then is it possible for Strawhenge to be mafia-aligned? It only can be so if Floyd pulled a fast one on us -- ask yourselves if you believe that's the case. It can be noted that this was not Floyd's first scumslip, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that his team mates gave him this idea. I don't like to dwell in this sort of highly speculative arena though.

Spoiler: show

Straw tells MacDougall that Matt F's SK-oriented case against him might be a "stretch", but it isn't outright crazy. He provides a scenario in which it could work theoretically. It should be noted that in the first paragraph here he does seem to grant the most important point against the theory which detracts a lot from his proposed scenario supporting the theory.

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge explains including me on his scumlist by asserting that in some corner of his brain he was associating my behavior with potential rogue behavior. This is odd. He called me scum because I seemed like the rogue to him? Eh?

Spoiler: show

Back to Metalmarsh. He supports his suspicion with a general assertion about MM's demeanor.

Day 5 vote: Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1)

This has obviously become a trend. Straw hadn't said that much about MM to this point so this vote kind of smells forced. His prior votes were better supported by his own analysis. This came when espers and Devin were the primary wagons. It's hard to say Straw had any inside information at this point, he barely tried to push his case.

Spoiler: show

Matt expressed misgivings about TheFloyd73 being gone at some seemingly convenient moment and Strawhenge dissuaded that line of thinking. I think this reads fine for Straw because, like I've said, he has an appreciation for playing this game in the right spirit and didn't want people to be dismissive of Floyd's genuine difficulties external to the game.

Spoiler: show

It's Day 6 and Strawhenge says MM "looks better" while lamenting that he doesn't have a good read on anyone else and that his prior reads had been turning out bad. That he let off the gas against MM is important for those of us who are trying to figure out exactly what his position is and has been on lynching MM.

Spoiler: show

Day 6 gun to head reads. He calls Floyd scum but Mac and Black Rock non-scum. He belabored his read on Mac a little bit, whatever that might mean.

Spoiler: show

Straw made some points for and against my case on Black Rock on Day 6. It must be noted that his primary point of disagreement was to refute a point I made that a mafia flip by Black Rock would reflect postiively upon TheFloyd73 -- something I later agreed with him on. I think this is a really nice look: he threw shade on both scum in this discussion at the same time while at the same time exploring a case objectively.

Spoiler: show

Day 6 vote: Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1)

This was an important moment for Strawhenge. He was definitely around for the energized EOD proceedings in which Mac's lynch was almost prevented by a wagon against Diiny. motel room and I both pressured Strawhenge to make a decision between those two wagons because we were underwhelmed by his decision to make an inconsequential solo vote. He refused to heed our pressure. Mac was lynched accordingly, meaning Straw's solo vote did not save him. He didn't have to shoulder the responsibility of being on a relevant wagon though so I don't think this can be used strongly in his favor. I'm going to call it null.

Spoiler: show

Acknowledges the difficulty of reading TheFloyd73's posts on Day 7 but doesn't seem motivated to engage him about it.

Spoiler: show

Voices support for Matt's case against TheFloyd73 on Day 7 and even acknowledges that it'd be a better lynch than MM. He then contributes to the case himself and calls Floyd scum in the Day 7 GTH exercise. He gives Floyd the bottom grade alongside MM in his star ratings.

Day 7 vote: TheFloyd73 (2nd of 4)

Strawhenge finally gets on the board with a vote for a confirmed bad guy. This came when the primary counterwagons were seaside and JJJ. I know those are both townies, so I think that's a pretty decent look. It's not an amazing look because the Floyd lynch didn't actually happen, but in any event Straw did the legwork on Day 7 to justify this vote.

Spoiler: show

Day 8, one-track mind. Death to MM. He kind of seems to imply that it's possible to infodump on this matter, but then supplies thread-relevant reasons to justify his suspicion. He doesn't do the same kind of legwork that he had done for all of his other suspects though. His effort level plummets with this case for some reason -- he has blamed burnout, which is believable if still frustrating. Despite the underwhelming case, he conveys total confidence, which he did not do for his more thoroughly reasoned suspects.

Day 8 vote: Metalmarsh89 (1st of 4)

Straw's MM rage turned into the primary counterwagon against TheFloyd73, who ended up lynched. It's not ideal that Straw voted for the mafia player on Day 7 when he was mostly saved by the seaside wagon and then voted away from him when it counted -- but in both cases his votes were very early before the drama could develop.

Spoiler: show

The anti-MM show continues into Day 9, but Straw can't bring himself to construct a case when I practically beg him for it. Burnout can be powerful, but I would like to see more evidence that he really actually cares about MM being lynched as opposed to just filling the thread with posts about it for the sake of doing so.

Day 9 vote: Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1)

The beat goes on. A thorough and reasoned case will be necessary before this vendetta can be clearly understood, even if it must happen this phase when MM is not on the tally.

~~~

Conclusion / TL,DR

Straw's voting record isn't very strong, and I think that stands as the biggest evidence against him right now. Prior to his crusade against MM he never failed to explain his votes in a substantive way and that lent confidence to his being genuine in his reads. That has nearly ceased over the latter half of the game though. He's more suspicious than he probably should be as a result, but I am still inclined to trust my gut that this man has the best intentions at heart -- at least as a scumhunter. I also think his interactions with Floyd work pretty strongly in his favor, making it unlikely that he is a member of the mafia team.

Is this guy mafia-aligned? Less likely than average.

Is this guy the serial killer? Average likelihood.

#6856

Some of the most intriguing posts from Bullzeye

Bullzeye wrote:Haven't been able to catch up as much as I'd have liked to and it's way too late for me now, so as I said earlier I'm going to have to random this one. Hopefully the night phase will allow me to catch up properly and get into the game! Randomizer is telling me to *Vote for MM*. I only hope he can find it in his heart to forgive me.

I don't like when people say this. It might be only me though.

Bullzeye wrote:
Sorsha wrote: 1. And if LC was a civ he would have been a great leader, it's true
2. I thought it was suspicious of bwt because he just seemed to be riding on LCs coat tails. Once LC "changed his mind" on bea, so did bwt. And I still stand by my bwt vote, I think he was suspicious.... See? I can't read bwt either.
3. Yes... It's called not being 100% sure because I wasn't. Like I just said, I've seen him do something like this, coming up with zany theories and day one plans, and get lynched as a civ.
4. Noncommittal on seaside because I've never played with him before, I don't know if this is how he always acts but I didn't see anything too suspicious in his behavior. I also didn't like the reasons some people were given for voting him. At the same time they knew him better than I did, but I still only think you should lynch someone if you really think they are bad.
5. And this would be the point, if I were his teammate, that I should have begun distancing.... not further defense. Or just kept my mouth shut. Or placed a vote on him. Pretty much anything but what I actually did.
6. Like I said, didn't think it would matter and figured it would just get torn apart anyway. I'm not the kind of player who goes head to head with others too much like golden and jjj and others have been doing the past day. i just roll over and die. In the past it hasn't worked well for me and hasn't been worth the effort
Posts like this make me feel better about you. This sort of reason and logic is what I would've expected to see in response to you gaining suspicion for your LC defense, rather than the immediate surrender. I know you've addressed the cause of that here though. The fact you've gained a ton of votes already is a bit off-putting as well. I will probably switch my vote, just not sure who to yet. That isn't to say my suspicion of you is completely alleviated. There is still a chance you were defending LC because you are a teammate of his and I'll be keeping that in mind for the future.

Linki - yeah a bit. Seems too fast, I'm not used to seeing bandwagons grow so early in the day. We still have over 24 hours and so many votes have already been cast.

Distancing from a townie lynch? Noted.

Bullzeye wrote:So Golden's big scheme that we should've all gone along with or be considered suspicious was... to kill a civvie? Good work!

Way too insistent on Golden despite him being a confirmed townie by then. Bullzeye continues it for a couple of posts and then ends the subject calling Golden a townie that is not beneficial to town(no ill intent though) and might get trusted in the future.

Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Rbzmncaeaei wrote:
Matt F wrote:I don't understand. Do you believe I've been holding up the town?
Nah I was just pointing out that seaside attributed a quote to me that was in fact yours.

Looked at his quote, and if that's not your quote, that's cool, but I don't think it's mine, either. I did bring up Uh Oh, but not the way seaside quoted. Not that it matters either way, just want to clarify.

Bullz - anti-Mafia means possibly civvie, possibly SK
Right. So you don't think they're baddies but haven't ruled them out as being the indy? I hope you don't consider the SK pro-civvie though?

Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Reads lists, anyone?
I have Golden and Elohcin down as civvie.

RBZ as maybe anti-Mafia.

RussT as definitely anti-Mafia.

I'm not sure on anyone else in the game, either way. I'm going out to eat in a few, but will make a list soon, I promise.

Btw Golden, unless you really don't want to, can you tell me who your top three suspects are, please? I'd really like to know that before the Night is over. Thank you!
What's the difference between anti-Mafia and civvie? The only non-civ non-Mafia is the SK, who is anti-everyone.

Bullzeye wrote:
Rbzmncaeaei wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Rbzmncaeaei wrote:
Matt F wrote:I don't understand. Do you believe I've been holding up the town?
Nah I was just pointing out that seaside attributed a quote to me that was in fact yours.

Looked at his quote, and if that's not your quote, that's cool, but I don't think it's mine, either. I did bring up Uh Oh, but not the way seaside quoted. Not that it matters either way, just want to clarify.

Bullz - anti-Mafia means possibly civvie, possibly SK
Right. So you don't think they're baddies but haven't ruled them out as being the indy? I hope you don't consider the SK pro-civvie though?
The SK certainly can be considered pro-civvie at least until the end of the game.
Not in my book. SKs are only pro-civvie when they know you've caught them out and they're desperate to be allowed to live.

Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Right. So you don't think they're baddies but haven't ruled them out as being the indy? I hope you don't consider the SK pro-civvie though?
Well, considering I use the term "anti-Mafia" as opposed to "civvie" or "pro-civvie", no, I do not consider the SK pro-civvie.

What's with this line of questioning? You think I'm the SK, Bullz?

Golden - Much appreciated on your thoughts on Roxy, as well as your scum picks.

Off to eat, I'll be back in about an hour or so.

Peace!
I don't think you're the SK, I think you're too smart to trust the SK. I just wanted to make sure.

Bullzeye wrote:
Rbzmncaeaei wrote: linki @Bullzeye - So why do I often see players discuss games that have been over for months discussing their SK roles and claiming that at least in their minds, they were pro-civvie? I don't agree with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality myself, but picking a side is in the SK's best interest. Whether that side is good or bad is relative, and no alliance is eternal.
I don't believe such a role can be pro-civvie, or pro-baddie for that matter. The SK is inherently alone and nobody should assume to have its allegiance. An SK will kill whoever they perceive to be the biggest threat to them, just like the baddies will. They aren't going to be looking out for the interests of people who they can't win with.

I really love when scum talk about the SK. I tell you guys talking about the SK when you should be hunting scum is a serious scumtell. It has happened so many times on RYM. Those are five posts in a row talking about the SK. My scumdar is screeching.

Bullzeye wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Besides, it's not like I've said I'll definitely do it and gone out to get a tattoo of the statement. I can change my mind if I really want to.
Show me that you actually care about the ability to change your mind and this will mean something to me.
I don't even know what you're talking about now. Like you said, there are nearly 3 full days before the lynch deadline. Anything can happen between now and then. I might not even see day five. I've never been the type of person to assume my first instinct is definitely 100% correct. I know I'm not always going to be right. I still have the right to say what I think, when I think it. I gave no indication that I don't care about changing my mind or that I'm not open to other possibilities. I don't understand where you're coming from.

This pretty funny cause Bullz has survived alright. Same could be said for all who've said that though including me.

Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:I have fairly bad vibes about BCornett myself tbh, but I feel like my reasoning will be immediately 'discredited' if I share it. It's a card I'm keeping close to my chest until I have more solid reasons to support it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to voting for him.
Well, that's an awfully strange thing for a civvie to say during the Night Phase about someone he thinks is bad...

I guess you feel pretty good about the Mafia not NKing you after a post like that, regardless of whether you are right or wrong on bcornett?

Linki -
Given that they don't kill on even nights judging by the roles list, I do feel pretty confident about it actually

Honestly, thanks to Golden's pursuit of me I don't think it's the baddies I have to worry about at night anyway. At least the civ ninja only has a 50% shot at successfully killing me.

Dat townie mindframe.

Bullzeye wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?
He's usually a lot more aggressive. However he did just get killed night one in Recruitment (by accident as well) so he might have been deliberately trying to be more restrained just to avoid his sucky curse of always dying straight away for lame reasons.

Also, I was meaning to say earlier, I think there's good reason to believe that the SK targeted Golden's seductee and that that's why there were two kills shown. In this game there has been a lot of discussion as to whether or not SK's are actually just misunderstood, civ-friendly softies who love cuddles and would never harm a fly unless it was evil. Killing the basically outed civ removes any doubt that the SK is not civ-friendly. I don't think they'd choose to do that so early on. I think they killed someone else, and that someone was Golden's seduced friend. Then MP wrote the night post to reflect that the SK had both failed to kill one person and also killed Golden. I think that's a far more realistic option.

On hindsight replying to a scum player theorizing about the SK. My scumdar is overheating.

There is another post about the SK and how he does things, a modkill/infodumping controversy with Matt F which is pretty null since the game has rules about modkills and what we say has no real effect. I don't know what to think about the infodumping. That exchange reflects worse on Bullzeye since as Matt F said Bullz had Matt in her NO LYNCH list. Here's the post

Bullzeye wrote:Who I don't have an interest in lynching? That's going to be a short list. Let's see:

Bullzeye
Elo
Splints maybe?
JJJ
Matt F but maybe not Matt F at all
MM
Fuzz
Rico
Roxy

I will not be voting for any of these people today, but someone's name not being here doesn't mean I am likely to vote for them. I have excluded both my suspects and people I feel neutral about. Names here are names of those I think are definitely/possibly/likely to be civs. This is why I don't make rainbow lists or whatever the cool kids are calling them nowadays. I suck at them.

Bullzeye wrote:
Russtifinko wrote: I have played with Bullz a number of times, and mainly when he's been a baddie, I believe. The one thing I remember well is that he gets HYPER defensive over relatively little things, and generally over defends himself and convinces everyone he's bad. Iirc he's had some pretty spectacular flameouts as a baddie.
I very much disagree with this summary of my character.

Can somebody attests to this. He has been defensive don't know about hyper. I'm a sucker for meta, I want a response from someone.

All in on Bullz.
#ballstothewall

#6857

INT. WAREHOUSE - NIGHT

We see a man strapped to a chair, illuminated by one dingy overhead light. A burlap bag is draped over his head. A voice comes from the darkness. This is STRAWHENGE, literally just some guy, though kinda handsome.

STRAWHENGE (O.C.)
We've been watching you.

CUT TO: EXT. FREEWAY - EVENING

A black SUV with tinted windows violently changes lanes and speeds up. Behind it, an unmarked police car turns on its lights and moans in pursuit.

CUT TO: Back to the warehouse.

STRAWHENGE (O.C.)
The more you comply, the more we can all
get through this without any scratches, see?

The man begins to struggle against his binds.

CUT TO: INT. HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - DAY

A young man who kinda looks like David Tennant is on the phone. This is DIINY. Diiny is furious.

DIINY
I don't care where the money's gone.
Just get it back. Get it the fuck back.

TRAILER NARRATOR
In a world...

CUT TO: POLICE STATION - BRIEFING ROOM - DAY

A detective, sweating at his temples, pounds at a whiteboard full of names and terms. His sleeves are rolled up. He takes a big gulp of bad coffee from a white ceramic mug. This is JAY.

JAY
We're not fuckin' leaving this office
until we find these bastards. If you got
a problem with that...

CUT TO: Shot of a dead body by a lake on a gray day. JAY, RICO, and RUSSTI stand in their raincoats amidst the uniformed patrolmen who set up a perimeter. They scan the horizon, looking pretty hard.

JAY (V.O., cont.)
...then you got a problem with me!

TRAILER NARRATOR
...where nothing makes any damn sense...

CUT TO: Back to warehouse.

STRAWHENGE
What do you know? I said, what do you know?
(slams tire iron on an empty folding
chair next to the hooded man)

TRAILER NARRATOR
...only one man... has the will to make his
own sense.

The camera zooms into the bag over the man's head. The bag is pulled away. It's CHOUTAS.

STRAWHENGE
You're gonna tell me everything I need to know.

Music swells as we hit a montage.

CUT TO: The black SUV pulling off the freeway and evading the police car, which explodes with suddenness.

CUT TO: Some women dancing in a strip club.

CUT TO: Reaction shot of STRAWHENGE growling in some kind of fight. The bridge of his nose is gashed open.

CUT TO: CHOUTAS standing atop a train car as it speeds away from a car, skidding to a halt near the train station. STRAWHENGE gets out of the car and runs a few feet. They stare each other down as the train passes out of sight.

SHOT: STRAWHENGE looking small and alone in a wide shot that follows the train.

Music goes silent.

CUT TO: CHOUTAS in the chair, just after STRAWHENGE's last line. He stares at STRAWHENGE for a moment, looking confident. He suddenly bursts out into manic laughter.

Cut to black. We still hear the laughter.

TITLE: 'A CASE OF CHOUTAS'

TITLE: 'COMING SOON TO A MAFIA THREAD NEAR YOU'

#6858

Haha I love it. I'm gonna take scenario lessons in November that will end with each and everyone of us writing a scenario for a movie.

Perhaps you can give me tips Straw.

#6859

ayy wtf. RIPIYWG everyone. And possible SK Marmot is also missing from the poll.

MM, do you think it's likely we're seeing the double kill scenario again from the Psycho Babbler as on Night 4? If so, he should technically not be able to kill on Night 10, if there'll be one, right?

Strawhenge wrote:Order of operations:

Lynch Metalmarsh
Lynch Choutas
Celebrate a town victory

Well, it seems we can't lynch MM toDay, but can you try nonetheless to give us a screening of a case for him as well? Don't recall if you've answered, but is the "either Wartime or SK" approximation you did still relevant, now that Wartime was lynched and only the SK remains of the two?

DrWilgy wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:Why would two players die every cycle? How do you know that? Scum only kill every other night.
Lynch and psycho killer. Two is the minimum, unless we manage to kill SK.

Pedantic semantics, I know, but the civilians lynch, not kill.

Also, unfortunately, lynching the SK would likely hand over the even Night kill to the Mafia. These odd/even Kills are usually inherited by the other party.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:RIP y'all if you were good guys. I guess I don't have to do that Matt case now. :P

That's a serious loss of contribution in one fell swoop. We're all going to have to pick up the slack in their absences. If you're town, you have the ability to show that by drowning the remaining baddies in overwhelming effort. The more action this thread sees, the more difficult we make their lives in the late game. Even if you don't trust me, this is fundamental mafia and I assure you this is the time to play your hardest. I will do my part -- if those guys that just died were town, they deserve to win with the town. The poured themselves into this game.

Fully agreed, but I also want to be upfront about how much Mafia I'll be able to do during this phase, rather than commit to intense activities that I wouldn't be able to achieve in reasonable time and which could probably make me mess up again. Today's best window for me lasts until late afternoon (although still uneven in how much free time and when I'll have), tomorrow's best window for me will be only late in the evening until EoD.

Also, if you did this late stage pep talk and prove to be mafia after all, I am going to smash everything in my house except for the piano. Same as with an MM scum reveal.

Choutas wrote:Day 10 rainbow list.

JJJ
motel room
Metalmarsh89

Strawhenge

Diiny
RadicalFuzz
DrWilgy

Ricochet
Russtifinko

Bullzeye

Most rogue behavioured players: Rico, Russ and MM

Why are motel and MM top rainbow?

#6860

Ricochet wrote:ayy wtf. RIPIYWG everyone. And possible SK Marmot is also missing from the poll.

MM, do you think it's likely we're seeing the double kill scenario again from the Psycho Babbler as on Night 4? If so, he should technically not be able to kill on Night 10, if there'll be one, right?

Strawhenge wrote:Order of operations:

Lynch Metalmarsh
Lynch Choutas
Celebrate a town victory
Well, it seems we can't lynch MM toDay, but can you try nonetheless to give us a screening of a case for him as well? Don't recall if you've answered, but is the "either Wartime or SK" approximation you did still relevant, now that Wartime was lynched and only the SK remains of the two?

DrWilgy wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:Why would two players die every cycle? How do you know that? Scum only kill every other night.
Lynch and psycho killer. Two is the minimum, unless we manage to kill SK.
Pedantic semantics, I know, but the civilians lynch, not kill.

Also, unfortunately, lynching the SK would likely hand over the even Night kill to the Mafia. These odd/even Kills are usually inherited by the other party.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:RIP y'all if you were good guys. I guess I don't have to do that Matt case now. :P

That's a serious loss of contribution in one fell swoop. We're all going to have to pick up the slack in their absences. If you're town, you have the ability to show that by drowning the remaining baddies in overwhelming effort. The more action this thread sees, the more difficult we make their lives in the late game. Even if you don't trust me, this is fundamental mafia and I assure you this is the time to play your hardest. I will do my part -- if those guys that just died were town, they deserve to win with the town. The poured themselves into this game.
Fully agreed, but I also want to be upfront about how much Mafia I'll be able to do during this phase, rather than commit to intense activities that I wouldn't be able to achieve in reasonable time and which could probably make me mess up again. Today's best window for me lasts until late afternoon (although still uneven in how much free time and when I'll have), tomorrow's best window for me will be only late in the evening until EoD.

Also, if you did this late stage pep talk and prove to be mafia after all, I am going to smash everything in my house except for the piano. Same as with an MM scum reveal.

Choutas wrote:Day 10 rainbow list.

JJJ
motel room
Metalmarsh89

Strawhenge

Diiny
RadicalFuzz
DrWilgy

Ricochet
Russtifinko

Bullzeye

Most rogue behavioured players: Rico, Russ and MM
Why are motel and MM top rainbow?

JJJ had Floyd and Black Rock painted as scummy if my memory serves me right. His overall tone has been honest and he has supertowned hard despite not yielding the same quality of results as some of his previous games. When he's scum his soul is not in the game. I was wrong about Mac but Mac has an easier meta to replicate than JJJ. If I got fooled twice I'll be raging hard.
MM is one of the most likely guys to be the SK I won't deny that but his overall performance has looked town to me.
MR has been quite consistent with his reads. He had me pegged as scum for most of the game until the Floyd lynch that swayed him to rethink his read on me. It's more of a playstyle evaluation.

The color system is a little bit askew when the player numbers get diminished I should have used four or three colors instead. Three colors are gonna be my next rainbow list. Town/neutral/scum.

#6861

At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.

#6862

[Sigh] Okay. [does something else for two hours] Okay. Choutas. RYMafia legend, Ultimate Bad Boy, alright. Oh, god, I bet he has like 38 pages of in-topic po—

Six? SIX whole pages? That can't be right... What does this mean? What's going on? Someone like Choutas can't have just six pages...

Choutas

Episode One: Shadowdark Rainstorm In the Dark

Hello, and welcome to my ISO on Choutas. I'm wildly out of touch on this thread, have been wrong about everybody insofar, and have very little energy left to this monthlong chapter of my life. But let's get into this. Let's go back to the beginning and see what exactly Choutas has goin' on. Should he be pardoned? Or should he be permabanned? We'll find out, later on in the program.

First, a breakdown of votes.

Spoiler: show

Okay. Let's look at some goddamn posts.

Spoiler: show

Okay, I have to continue this another time. This post is a bookmark of where in Choutas's posts I am, for my own reference. I'll be back later.

Current rating: ★★½, bordering on ★★★

#6863

DrWilgy wrote:At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.

erm ok

One thing making me consider that the mafia may have gotten hit by the SK along the way is seeing no signs of anything from No Compassion. He's never done the kill, he has secrets that, at least to my eyesight, I have not seen converted into shenanigans. If he's dead, the mafia are really in dire straits, given that Drugs can't kill anyone.

Then again, this could all be mind tricks just as much. No Compassion never makes a kill move and he's careful with his power as to not get detected. That'd be the alternative to the above.

#6864

Choutas wrote:I miss the early RYM games. Someone could post 70 posts all game and nobody would call him/her a low contributor like they do over here

I tell you man, we're fucking nuts.

And already, this is the third-highest posting game on this site, and shouldn't have any trouble closing the gap on Number 1.

#6865

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Choutas wrote:I miss the early RYM games. Someone could post 70 posts all game and nobody would call him/her a low contributor like they do over here
I tell you man, we're fucking nuts.

And already, this is the third-highest posting game on this site, and shouldn't have any trouble closing the gap on Number 1.

And that's not all.

#6866

I'll go make some coffee, then I'll start reading/responding to Jay's new novel.

#6867

Ricochet wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.
erm ok

One thing making me consider that the mafia may have gotten hit by the SK along the way is seeing no signs of anything from No Compassion. He's never done the kill, he has secrets that, at least to my eyesight, I have not seen converted into shenanigans. If he's dead, the mafia are really in dire straits, given that Drugs can't kill anyone.

Then again, this could all be mind tricks just as much. No Compassion never makes a kill move and he's careful with his power as to not get detected. That'd be the alternative to the above.

What if Drugs is actually dead yo?

Scumslip Number 2.

#6868

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.
erm ok

One thing making me consider that the mafia may have gotten hit by the SK along the way is seeing no signs of anything from No Compassion. He's never done the kill, he has secrets that, at least to my eyesight, I have not seen converted into shenanigans. If he's dead, the mafia are really in dire straits, given that Drugs can't kill anyone.

Then again, this could all be mind tricks just as much. No Compassion never makes a kill move and he's careful with his power as to not get detected. That'd be the alternative to the above.
What if Drugs is actually dead yo?

Scumslip Number 2.

If Devin was drugged on D5, and given that there were no successful SK kills between N4-8, it's harder to picture Drugs being dead (except if he got killed last Night).

Also, ture.

#6869

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Strawhenge votes seasideagain, unconvinced by his insistence on TheFloyd73as a town read.

It was still Day 1 when this happened too. But whatever, it's certainly accurate to say that seaside was Strawhenge's strongest suspicion at that point.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dramatizes his suspicion of seasideand names thellama73as his second biggest suspect.

This rings similarly with Floyd's IRL issues early in the game. I believe players in general were willing to let him be.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Engages Golden directly about his perspective of me and of my Day 3 case against Ricochet. I do think Strawhenge appears genuine in his attempts to ask meaningful questions and to express continued healthy paranoia about me. He seems to be exploring both sides of the story for both Golden and I in this discussion and I like that. Eventually Straw changed his vote again before the tally expired.

Up to this point, everything I've looked at from Strawhenge does look civilian-oriented. Even the posts that you interpreted neutral or worse, I had no trouble justifying as civvie.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This is Straw's response to TheFloyd73 calling him a "rival" in what has become accepted as a genuine scumslip. It's a rather tame response, but it also begs the question to anyone: if this is a scumslip, then is it possible for Strawhenge to be mafia-aligned? It only can be so if Floyd pulled a fast one on us -- ask yourselves if you believe that's the case. It can be noted that this was not Floyd's first scumslip, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that his team mates gave him this idea. I don't like to dwell in this sort of highly speculative arena though.

That's what I was telling someone before, can't remember who though. Another player I was talking to was trying to paint Strawhenge is mafia based on this comment, and I pointed out that the opposite should be true. I need to find that post.

Found it, it was Matt F, so pretty much moot at this point.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Straw's voting record isn't very strong, and I think that stands as the biggest evidence against him right now. Prior to his crusade against MM he never failed to explain his votes in a substantive way and that lent confidence to his being genuine in his reads. That has nearly ceased over the latter half of the game though. He's more suspicious than he probably should be as a result, but I am still inclined to trust my gut that this man has the best intentions at heart -- at least as a scumhunter. I also think his interactions with Floyd work pretty strongly in his favor, making it unlikely that he is a member of the mafia team.

Thoughts on my proposal that Strawhenge is Love for Sale?

#6870

Choutas wrote:Some of the most intriguing posts from Bullzeye

Bullzeye wrote:Haven't been able to catch up as much as I'd have liked to and it's way too late for me now, so as I said earlier I'm going to have to random this one. Hopefully the night phase will allow me to catch up properly and get into the game! Randomizer is telling me to *Vote for MM*. I only hope he can find it in his heart to forgive me.
I don't like when people say this. It might be only me though.

I read it as friendly banter. I don't know if I could read another way. Considering his position in the game at the time, it was a reasonable measure taken.

Still, I don't forgive him.

Choutas wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:I have fairly bad vibes about BCornett myself tbh, but I feel like my reasoning will be immediately 'discredited' if I share it. It's a card I'm keeping close to my chest until I have more solid reasons to support it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to voting for him.
Well, that's an awfully strange thing for a civvie to say during the Night Phase about someone he thinks is bad...

I guess you feel pretty good about the Mafia not NKing you after a post like that, regardless of whether you are right or wrong on bcornett?

Linki -
Given that they don't kill on even nights judging by the roles list, I do feel pretty confident about it actually

Honestly, thanks to Golden's pursuit of me I don't think it's the baddies I have to worry about at night anyway. At least the civ ninja only has a 50% shot at successfully killing me.
Dat townie mindframe.

To be fair, one of the strange things about the Syndicate is that civilians who die in games cannot win said game. That's not the case in this game, but it causes civilians to value their time and effort more, in hopes that they won't get nightkilled. It causes them to act scummier, in that defending from a lynch is easier than defending from a nightkill.

Still, that is not the case in this game.

Choutas wrote:Can somebody attests to this. He has been defensive don't know about hyper. I'm a sucker for meta, I want a response from someone.

I don't believe he has been hyper-defensive this game. If anything, Epignosis pointed out the opposite reaction in response to the suspicion from MacDougall. But Mac's flip doesn't really tell us anything there. I remember one occasion of Bullzeye going nuts (can't remember which game though) as a civilian, and that was because of info-dumping, not because of a case against him. Bullzeye loathes such tactics, mainly because they are against the rules.

#6871

Strawhenge wrote:CUT TO: Shot of a dead body by a lake on a gray day. JAY, RICO, and RUSSTI stand in their raincoats amidst the uniformed patrolmen who set up a perimeter. They scan the horizon, looking pretty hard.

Is this a porno?

#6872

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:CUT TO: Shot of a dead body by a lake on a gray day. JAY, RICO, and RUSSTI stand in their raincoats amidst the uniformed patrolmen who set up a perimeter. They scan the horizon, looking pretty hard.
Is this a porno?

Considering the dead body, I hope not.

#6873

Ricochet wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.
erm ok

One thing making me consider that the mafia may have gotten hit by the SK along the way is seeing no signs of anything from No Compassion. He's never done the kill, he has secrets that, at least to my eyesight, I have not seen converted into shenanigans. If he's dead, the mafia are really in dire straits, given that Drugs can't kill anyone.

Then again, this could all be mind tricks just as much. No Compassion never makes a kill move and he's careful with his power as to not get detected. That'd be the alternative to the above.

Regardless, I do agree with this Ricochet. If Drugs is alive, he has only had one chance to drug someone, and there's a good chance that player (Devin) was already lynched, leaving Drugs with no nightkill option.

Also, at this stage in the game, Thank You for Sending Me an Angel doesn't LOOK like that the best option to perform the nightkill. He wouldn't get the chance to learn the nightkilled player's role, or use a dead player's power (unless he has done this already).

#6874

DrWilgy wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:CUT TO: Shot of a dead body by a lake on a gray day. JAY, RICO, and RUSSTI stand in their raincoats amidst the uniformed patrolmen who set up a perimeter. They scan the horizon, looking pretty hard.
Is this a porno?
Considering the dead body, I hope not.

Hold me Doctor.

#6875

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:At work currently,

<3 you Strawhenge, <3 you Rico.
erm ok

One thing making me consider that the mafia may have gotten hit by the SK along the way is seeing no signs of anything from No Compassion. He's never done the kill, he has secrets that, at least to my eyesight, I have not seen converted into shenanigans. If he's dead, the mafia are really in dire straits, given that Drugs can't kill anyone.

Then again, this could all be mind tricks just as much. No Compassion never makes a kill move and he's careful with his power as to not get detected. That'd be the alternative to the above.
Regardless, I do agree with this Ricochet. If Drugs is alive, he has only had one chance to drug someone, and there's a good chance that player (Devin) was already lynched, leaving Drugs with no nightkill option.

Also, at this stage in the game, Thank You for Sending Me an Angel doesn't LOOK like that the best option to perform the nightkill. He wouldn't get the chance to learn the nightkilled player's role, or use a dead player's power (unless he has done this already).

Yes, it nullifies Angel's night power during Night 9, just like on Night 1, but that doesn't mean they didn't learn about their other victims, throughout the game and/or picked a dead role power.

#6876

Some maintanence once more. Again, I'll treat mafia victims as civilians, until signs of the SK having disappeared would exist (...but wait, as a matter of fact, wouldn't the SK's death be announced by the Host?). Matt and Epig will go in orange, as SK victims. Although, as far as Epig is concerned, I was feeling good about him. As for Matt, hmm...

I see him getting scum votes from Floyd on two consecutive Days. Never got to check Matt-Floyd, but does anyone remember if Matt complained much about Floyd voting him back then?

Day 1

bea 1 -- Ricochet (37) 3%
birdwithteeth11 7 -- DrWilgy (12), bcornett24 (14), Matt F (23), HamburgerBoy (25), Sorsha (27), Diiny (28), sig (31) 18%
Choutas 1 -- rundontwalk (7) 3%
Diiny 3 -- thellama73 (6), Devin the Omniscient (19), Elohcin (24) 8%
DrWilgy 1 -- Choutas (17) 3%
Epignosis 2 -- FZ. (20), kneel4justice (22) 5%
Long Con 1 -- Rbzmncaeaei (15) 3%
MacDougall 1 -- seaside (13) 3%
Matt F 2 -- Roxy (35), Russtifinko (36) 5%
reywaS 2 -- MacDougall (29), Golden (33) 5%
Russtifinko 4 -- Metalmarsh89 (18), AceofSpaces (30), espers (34), Epignosis (38) 11%
sig 4 -- motel room (11), JaggedJimmyJay (16), Long Con (21), birdwithteeth11 (26) 11%
Strawhenge 1 -- TheFloyd73 (3) 3%

Day 2

AceofSpaces 1 -- TheFloyd73 (4) 3%
bcornett24 6 -- FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%
Devin the Omniscient 1 -- rundontwalk (7) 3%
Diiny 2 -- Devin the Omniscient (6), thellama73 (24) 5%
DrWilgy 1 -- Ricochet (23) 3%
JaggedJimmyJay 1 -- Rbzmncaeaei (37) 3%
Long Con 8 -- Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%
Matt F 1 -- Roxy (15) 3%
Metalmarsh89 1 -- Bullzeye (20) 3%
seaside 2 -- Metalmarsh89 (2), Strawhenge (10) 5%
Sorsha 2 -- Matt F (25), Elohcin (33) 5%
thellama73 3 -- MacDougall (13), Diiny (28), espers (30) 8%

Day 3

bea 1 -- TheFloyd73 (9) 3%
Epignosis 1 -- motel room (3) 3%
Golden 7 -- bcornett24 (10), MacDougall (11), Devin the Omniscient (14), DrWilgy (28), sig (30), Sorsha (31), Ricochet (33) 21%
Matt F 1 -- Roxy (17) 3%
Rbzmncaeaei 1 -- Elohcin (7) 3%
Ricochet 6 -- JaggedJimmyJay (21), Rbzmncaeaei (22), Diiny (24), Golden (26), seaside (27), espers (34) 18%
Russtifinko 4 -- FZ. (16), Epignosis (18), Bullzeye (19), thellama73 (20) 12%
Sorsha 4 -- Matt F (4), Strawhenge (12), Choutas (13), Russtifinko (29) 12%
thellama73 1 -- bea (23) 3%

Day 4
Devin the Omniscient 9 --
bcornett24 (15), Sorsha (16), JaggedJimmyJay (22), Bullzeye (23), Black Rock (25), Ricochet (26), Golden (27), DrWilgy (31), Epignosis (33) 27%
Elohcin 1 -- TheFloyd73 (10) 3%
Golden 1 -- Diiny (32) 3%
JaggedJimmyJay 2 -- Metalmarsh89 (12), RadicalFuzz (18) 6%
Matt F 1 -- Roxy (7) 3%
Sorsha 10 -- Choutas (6), seaside (8), Devin the Omniscient (9), Strawhenge (11), motel room (17), Matt F (20), Elohcin (24), MacDougall (28), espers (29), Russtifinko (30) 30%

Day 5

bcornett24 1 -- DrWilgy (7) 3%
Black Rock 1 -- fingersplints (17) 3%
Devin the Omniscient 6 -- bcornett24 (10), Choutas (15), sig (26), Bullzeye (27), Devin the Omniscient (28), Black Rock (29) 18%
Diiny 2 -- seaside (11), MacDougall (24) 6%
espers 8 -- Russtifinko (18), motel room (20), JaggedJimmyJay (22), RadicalFuzz (23), Metalmarsh89 (30), Diiny (31), Ricochet (32), Matt F (34) 24%
MacDougall 2 -- Elohcin (19), Epignosis (21) 6%
Matt F 2 -- TheFloyd73 (9), Roxy (13) 6%
Metalmarsh89 1 -- Strawhenge (8) 3%

Day 6

bcornett24 1 -- Bullzeye (20) 3%
Diiny 6 -- sig (22), seaside (23), MacDougall (24), motel room (26), Choutas (27), JaggedJimmyJay (28) 21%
DrWilgy 1 --RadicalFuzz (17) 3%
JaggedJimmyJay 1 -- bcornett24 (7) 3%
MacDougall 7 -- DrWilgy (4), Ricochet (10), Metalmarsh89 (11), Epignosis (15), Matt F (18), Elohcin (21), Russtifinko (25) 24%
Matt F 1 -- TheFloyd73 (13) 3%
Metalmarsh89 1 -- Strawhenge (19) 3%
Russtifinko 1 -- fingersplints (9) 3%

Day 7

bcornett24 1 -- DrWilgy (22) 4%
Choutas 1 -- Ricochet (19) 4%
DrWilgy 1 -- RadicalFuzz (11) 4%
JaggedJimmyJay 3 -- seaside (6), TheFloyd73 (10), sig (17) 11%
seaside 8 -- Epignosis (20), motel room (21), Metalmarsh89 (23), JaggedJimmyJay (24), bcornett24 (25), Russtifinko (26), Diiny (27), Elohcin (28) 29%
TheFloyd73 4 -- Choutas (7), Strawhenge (13), Matt F (15), Bullzeye (16) 14%

Day 8

Diiny 1 -- bcornett24 (8) 4%
DrWilgy 1 -- RadicalFuzz (15) 4%
JaggedJimmyJay 1 -- sig (20) 4%
Metalmarsh89 4 -- Strawhenge (4), TheFloyd73 (6), Ricochet (22), DrWilgy (23) 17%
motel room 2 -- Russtifinko (5), Matt F (18) 8%
Russtifinko 3 -- motel room (7), Bullzeye (19), Metalmarsh89 (21) 13%
TheFloyd73 5 -- Choutas (10), Diiny (11), Epignosis (16), Elohcin (17), JaggedJimmyJay (24) 21%

Day 9

Bullzeye 1 -- Epignosis (20) 4%
Metalmarsh89 1 -- Strawhenge (17) 4%
motel room 2 -- sig (16), Russtifinko (19) 8%
RadicalFuzz 4 -- Metalmarsh89 (8), JaggedJimmyJay (10), Elohcin (11), Diiny (23) 17%
Ricochet 2 -- Matt F (13), bcornett24 (15) 8%
Russtifinko 1 -- Bullzeye (18) 4%
sig 5 -- Choutas (5), motel room (12), RadicalFuzz (21), DrWilgy (22), former-15-minute-of-good-hunting-turned-idiot (24) 21%

#6877

Some remarks on the above:

D1 - two important wagons (BWT, mislynched; and sig, who it's now clear that LC wanted to frame just as much as he did with bea) still have two players, each, alive

D2 - LC train is down to Choutas, Wilgy, motel, JJJ and Russ; still ridiculously wide to point at any bussers; if Epig and FZ were good (and I think they both were), b24 is confirmed scum clean, except for LC's lifeline

D3 - from the Golden wagon, only Wilgy and I remain

D4-D5 wagons still with plenty alive players remaining; espers wagon still has 7 players, christ

D7 - seaside wagon also still too large to call

D9 - oh hey both my two voters are dead. are the baddies in mood for some WIFOM?

#6878

Posting these as I go with more details.

BULLZEYE

Spoiler: show

CHOUTAS

Spoiler: show

Note: Choutas has voted early in 5 of the last 6 day phases without changing his vote afterward. The only day he did change his vote: to give Diiny the 5th vote on the day MacDougall edged Diiny for the lynch.

DIINY

Spoiler: show

#6879

Just some other details about the lynch records I'm pulling. Links are provided when the voter stated their vote in thread. Sometimes they did not, so I could only pull their votes from the final polls.

The first set of numbers listed at the end of each day phase shows their position on that specific wagon. The second set of numbers shows their vote in the overall day phase. Non-players were not included in this number.

#6880

Also CHOUTAS.

His vote record looks bad. Yes he voted Long Con on Day 1 and Floyd on Day 8, but in both cases, his vote was the first on the wagon. Otherwise, he has shown the tendency to vote early and not alter his vote (except for the case I noted previously).

#6881

What are y'all listening to right now? I'm on an Iron Maiden kick.

#6882

DRWILGY

Spoiler: show

RADICALFUZZ

Spoiler: show

RUSSTIFINKO

Spoiler: show

STRAWHENGE

Spoiler: show

Only 3 left. Ricochet... Myself... and Jay...

#6883

Oh, and motel room.

#6884

But hey, I did learn some things from skimming through players' posts looking for all of their votes cast. Here are quick thoughts I have on players.

Bullzeye - There's that MacDougall interaction that Epignosis. But everything else feels less... bad. Nothing stood out as super-civ, but nothing bad either. I don't know I'll have to revisit him again I think. After browsing through 6 other players after Bullzeye, my thoughts are all over the place now.

Choutas - I commented on the votes already. He's often voted early without changing his vote beyond that. The only exception was seemingly to try and save a lynched mafia. He has dropped in my rainbow list.

Diiny - His contributions have not been great. Like Bullzeye, I had thoughts before, which have been replaced by the other players I've looked at since, but I do recall him being very go-along in his demeanor.

DrWilgy - His case on Day 2 against Long Con looks really good (barring at strategic bussing attempt). He's still been pretty solid since then. He helped lynch MacDougall on Day 6, and his votes outside of just seemed solid. Also, like Strawhenge, there was a point where he was trying to push an idea that relied on info, before he realized the error in his ways. Like Strawhenge, I think this is a good look for the doctor.

RadicalFuzz - Voting record doesn't look good. His attitude is solid and consistent, but he's done a good job at not committing to any reads on players that happened to flip mafia, specifically MacDougall and Floyd. Each of his votes has not resulted in a lynch with two exceptions. 1) espers on Day 5. Espers did lead the lynch 8-6 over Devin, but Devin was lynched instead due to vote manipulations. 2) Fuzz voted sig on Day 9, but that was a self-preservation vote. Thus, both of these exceptions get stars next to them, and don't make his vote record very solid.

Russtifinko - My mind has been changed on Russti. I think I may have tunneled on him quite a bit this game. Russti has not been afraid of making a decisive vote, whether it be on a baddie or a civilian. This consistent aggressive strategy has more potential to come from a civilian than a mafia member, in my opinion. He's got balls, and his output has been consistent throughout this game. Yes he has said several things that seem waffly/weird, but he's generally been open-minded as well, not afraid to trust another player when he was not certain (which was the case in the Long Con lynch).

Strawhenge - I can't see him being mafia at all. I've got a role pegged for him right now, and I've seen strong flashes of a civilian playstyle that I've noticed in my RYM research of him. I also completely understand the effects of burnout.

#6885

Thus far, my rainbow list looks like this.

Strawhenge
Russtifinko
DrWilgy
Bullzeye
Diiny
Choutas
RadicalFuzz

#6886

Damn, I've posted 8 times in a row.

Make it 9. :P

#6887

Bullzeye

Start position in relation with LC

-	LC with others	others on LC
Bullz	-	Neutral

Votes according to Marsh

Metalmarsh89 wrote: BULLZEYE

Spoiler: show
Day 1 - No Vote (not replaced in for sanmateo yet)
Day 2 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1) (13th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Russtifinko (3rd of 4) (13th of 26)
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient(4th of 9) (14th of 24)
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient (4th of 6) (17th of 23)
Day 6 - bcornett (1st of 1) (11th of 19)
Day 7 - TheFloyd73 (4th of 4) (7th of 18)
Day 8 - Russtifinko (2nd of 3) (12th of 17)
Day 9 - Russtifinko (1st of 1) (10th of 16)

Bullzeye-Black MacCon-Bullzeye
Spoiler: show
Interactions with LC
-- (post-lynch) Disliking FZ's apologetic post, feeling like it's "overcompensating" for never joining the LC wagon
-- (post-lynch) Agrees with JJJ on Golden look bad, calling him teamie alongside Epi and Sorsha
-- (post-lynch) sarc reply to Wilgy's rebuttal on the accusation that he may have wagoned LC on purpose
-- (post-lynch) really offensive at Sorsha's attitude and rebuttal style; feels better about her after next defenses
-- (post-lynch) odd inquiry to FZ's theory on Russ's actions in D2 lynch
-- (post-lynch) critical of Diiny reading LC but never putting a vote
-- (post-lynch) in reply to Matt, defensive about deciding to judge the circumstances of LC's wagon rather than try to catch up in time to vote on the matter
-- (post-lynch) in reply to espers, dismissing having been either right or wrong about LC
-- (post-lynch) suspecting Devin for LC blendiness

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- D2 disagrees with Golden, JJJ and MacDougall about attempting a lynch coin flip being in anyone's interest
-- D5 agrees with JJJ in disbelieving Matt's theory on Mac, calling it part of his ridiculous conspiracies
-- fends off Mac's attempts to imply that Epig being active means he's watching from the shadows
-- rebuttal to Mac on going dark (not finding any suspicion on him worth replying to)
-- judges b24's turning on Mac
-- D7 dismisses again finding Mac's accusation worthy
-- approves of MM finally agreeing Russ might be bad, due to D1 interaction with Mac

Interactions with Black Rock
Nada.

LC interactions with Bullzeye
Nada.

MacBaddie interactions with Bullzeye (searching "bull" gives more "bullshit" than "bullzeye" )
-- GTH baddie read on Bullzeye D3
-- criticises Bullzeye's vote on Russti, based on FZ.'s theory
-- wary of Llama and Bullzeye wagon (as an attempt to shake off golden and sorsha trees)
-- self-scumming in reply to Bullzeye...??; banter dismissive of Bullzeye's and motel's further attempts to judge the Sorsha and Devin wagon
-- judges Bullzeye from perspective of having mentioned the SK
-- wary of sig, Bullzeye and Black Rock for pushing Devin's lynch D5
-- D6 susses Bullzeye for going in the dark
-- includes Bullzeye in his top 6 scum list

Black Rock interactions with Bullzeye
-- only comments with him on the subject of SK inheriting the night kill

Votes
D2 randomizer vote for MM
D3 votes Russ based on FZ's theory
D4 embraces JJJ's theory on Devin, doesn't support Sorsha lynch, gradually considering it, finally votes Devin
D5 plants a Devin vote a second time, after bad catch-up day
D6 votes b24
D7 votes Floyd, between him and JJJ

Read
Plenty post-LC-lynch commenting and sussing as you can see, most of them confirmed as wrong directions so far. He's been mostly dismissive in interacting with MacBaddie, whereas MacBaddie turned the heat on him, especially late on. I think JJJ pointed to Bullz that he's fending off rather strongly anything MacBaddie brings on him, but to be honest, unless we're talking his D6 sussing, I don't see much else before. His D3 GTH read of him is completely sudden and my gut tell me to treat it as bullsuit. The rest, up to D5-D6, reads pretty soft. Can it a soft bark at Bullzeye, with the latter just going "meh" every time? Sure, but I'm not exactly getting a strong read on this. The low activity on D5-D6 can look bad for Bullzeye, in light of the whole MacBaddie drama unfolding, but again, I expect a stronger ping out of this - at least the kind b24 gave me.

I expected a stronger ping out of everything, in fact, but to be perfectly honest, I'd place him in the neutral camp. The votes have gone in the wrong direction several times (especially Devin D5 was a "yeah, let's try it again, he must have been saved on D4" lax initiative), but that could simply be it; and the interactions only give me mixed feelings. I'd probably re-assess him in a whole different light, in case of a JJJ bad flip, since he was rather clear against his wagon back on D7, voting Floyd instead. Although, even then, a baddie JJJ could well have tried to plant suss on Bullzeye for a really long time...

Tricky.
Bullzeye-Floyd-Bullzeye
Spoiler: show
Interactions with Floyd
-- D4 awed OT comment to Floyd telling him to "stop making sense"
-- N4 banter comment to Floyd calling JJJ 3J
-- D7 votes Floyd over JJJ, also found Floyd's rebuttal to Matt "lacking"
-- D7 votes Russti, but "wouldn't mind seeing a Floyd lynch" (sorry for this divagation, but yo Matteo, have you scanned this "wouldn't mind" comment the same way you did mine )

Floyd interactions with Bullzeye
-- D4 stop making sense comment
-- D4 sarc comment about Devin being bad, when Bull suspected Devin of pulling the same Recruitement tricks
-- D4 agrees with Bullzeye that nobody is safe in mafia
-- N4 reiterates agreeing with a statement by Bullzeye that no one is safe in mafia

Read
Yet again, shallow stuff, until D7 awareness of Floyd being an issue. Don't know if that's the norm of D7 for many (and we should, thus, instead, look for teammates who kept even more mum) or if it's a warning sign. Consequently, don't know if it speaks bad of Bullzeye or just looks bad for him. Floyd's posts, on the other hand, make my eye twitch a bit. Sarc comment about Devin could simply be individual awareness, as a mafia member, that Devin was of course no mafia. Don't know what to make of the other buddying-ish remarks. Voted Floyd on D7, never came back to it (voted Russ) on D8. Ew. Actually, just like the rest of the stuff, can't tell if just ew or baddie ping.

I'd like Question-Man Matt to tell me why my "would lynch Floyd, but never did" looks worse than, for instance, Bullzeye's.

Bullzeye's "tricky" status remains at tricky.

Vote record stands at 2 strong recurrences (Russ and Devin), one mislynch (Dev) and one vote on a baddie (Floyd) but not on his lynch Day.

Re-reading Bullzeye's votes through the lens of their timing and their "togetherness" with others. The average of them are midway votes, with no particular twitches or adjustments to this timing, except perhaps for his D7 vote for Floyd, which now stands quite early (yet this could also be because of the seaside third wagon very late avalanche). As for the second parameter:

-- D2 solo Marsh voter
-- D3 remains the only player alive on Russ (with FZ and Epig unrevealed, considering they've been killed by the SK)
-- D4 remains in the company of JJJ, Rico and Wilgy on the Devin losing wagon
-- D5 remains in the company of Choutas on the Devin winning wagon
-- D6 solo b24 voter
-- D7 remains in the company of Choutas on the Floyd losing wagon
-- D8 Russ voters along with motel and MM
-- D9 solo Russ voter

So the only alive player with which Bullzeye ever voted on a wagon is Choutas.

Checkin' interactions with Choutas:
-- N3 they talk, in apparent dissension, about infodumping

That much, ey? Not much viceversa either (except if Choutas used nicknames or abbreviations, which I haven't filtered): countless neutral (yellow) reads from Choutas, and then, toDay!, he cases him in a very negative way and votes him.

What's going on here?

Something that Choutas remarked himself also came to my notice this time:

Bullzeye wrote: I have fairly bad vibes about BCornett myself tbh, but I feel like my reasoning will be immediately 'discredited' if I share it. It's a card I'm keeping close to my chest until I have more solid reasons to support it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to voting for him.

Is this a hint? What can this mean?

=============================================

So I don't feel I have anything to add to my two reads on his interactions. The vote records looks very pingey, as timing all his votes could be comfy smack-in-the-middle ones, his ways of not showing up twice in the company of others (except Choutas) could be a defense mechanism and the only confirmed baddie (well, at least until MM flips SK) he ever steered towards, he didn't capitalize on his the Day it mattered.

Sadly, as always, I can't put my finger on him all the way through. Despite having played with him, I don't actually have a strong meta game of his in mind, so I'll just have to lend an ear to what others are saying about this. My ping artery is definitely twitching at most of this stuff, but I'm not sure how much, compared to others.

#6888

da fuk

#6889

You broke the Syndicate Ricochet.

#6890

Choutas wrote:Some of the most intriguing posts from Bullzeye

Bullzeye wrote:Haven't been able to catch up as much as I'd have liked to and it's way too late for me now, so as I said earlier I'm going to have to random this one. Hopefully the night phase will allow me to catch up properly and get into the game! Randomizer is telling me to *Vote for MM*. I only hope he can find it in his heart to forgive me.
I don't like when people say this. It might be only me though.

You liking or disliking it is largely irrelevant. I said it as a joke. Nothing I said on day 2 really means anything because I had no idea what was going on yet.

Choutas wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Sorsha wrote: 1. And if LC was a civ he would have been a great leader, it's true
2. I thought it was suspicious of bwt because he just seemed to be riding on LCs coat tails. Once LC "changed his mind" on bea, so did bwt. And I still stand by my bwt vote, I think he was suspicious.... See? I can't read bwt either.
3. Yes... It's called not being 100% sure because I wasn't. Like I just said, I've seen him do something like this, coming up with zany theories and day one plans, and get lynched as a civ.
4. Noncommittal on seaside because I've never played with him before, I don't know if this is how he always acts but I didn't see anything too suspicious in his behavior. I also didn't like the reasons some people were given for voting him. At the same time they knew him better than I did, but I still only think you should lynch someone if you really think they are bad.
5. And this would be the point, if I were his teammate, that I should have begun distancing.... not further defense. Or just kept my mouth shut. Or placed a vote on him. Pretty much anything but what I actually did.
6. Like I said, didn't think it would matter and figured it would just get torn apart anyway. I'm not the kind of player who goes head to head with others too much like golden and jjj and others have been doing the past day. i just roll over and die. In the past it hasn't worked well for me and hasn't been worth the effort
Posts like this make me feel better about you. This sort of reason and logic is what I would've expected to see in response to you gaining suspicion for your LC defense, rather than the immediate surrender. I know you've addressed the cause of that here though. The fact you've gained a ton of votes already is a bit off-putting as well. I will probably switch my vote, just not sure who to yet. That isn't to say my suspicion of you is completely alleviated. There is still a chance you were defending LC because you are a teammate of his and I'll be keeping that in mind for the future.

Linki - yeah a bit. Seems too fast, I'm not used to seeing bandwagons grow so early in the day. We still have over 24 hours and so many votes have already been cast.
Distancing from a townie lynch? Noted.

Not distancing from anything. She wasn't even lynched that day. Sorsha was suspicious to me mostly because of her lack of defense and immediate surrender upon a case being built against her. When she eventually defended herself, and came across as genuine, my suspicion of her was diminished.

Choutas wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:So Golden's big scheme that we should've all gone along with or be considered suspicious was... to kill a civvie? Good work!
Way too insistent on Golden despite him being a confirmed townie by then. Bullzeye continues it for a couple of posts and then ends the subject calling Golden a townie that is not beneficial to town(no ill intent though) and might get trusted in the future.

What do you mean by insistent on Golden? I hope you aren't trying to insinuate that I was calling him suspicious after he outed himself. It's quite obvious I was never doing that. I criticised him and his actions, and have explained why. Most of me "continuing it" was in response to others who wouldn't drop the subject. I had already said all I wanted to say in that one post. Just because he was a civ doesn't mean I have to like or accept what he did.

Choutas wrote:I really love when scum talk about the SK. I tell you guys talking about the SK when you should be hunting scum is a serious scumtell. It has happened so many times on RYM. Those are five posts in a row talking about the SK. My scumdar is screeching.

Those posts didn't happen in a vacuum. I didn't just suddenly decide to start saying things about SKs for no reason. I was questioning Matt's perspective and discussing Zebra's attitude. Were they both bad as well for having been involved in the conversation?

Choutas wrote: Dat townie mindframe.

What's wrong with not wanting to be killed? I don't play to lose and I don't intend to die early. It's just a known fact that baddies are unlikely to kill players when there's a good chance that the person can be lynched.

Choutas wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Syndicate players, can I get some input on whether epi is playing differently in this game than usual?
He's usually a lot more aggressive. However he did just get killed night one in Recruitment (by accident as well) so he might have been deliberately trying to be more restrained just to avoid his sucky curse of always dying straight away for lame reasons.

Also, I was meaning to say earlier, I think there's good reason to believe that the SK targeted Golden's seductee and that that's why there were two kills shown. In this game there has been a lot of discussion as to whether or not SK's are actually just misunderstood, civ-friendly softies who love cuddles and would never harm a fly unless it was evil. Killing the basically outed civ removes any doubt that the SK is not civ-friendly. I don't think they'd choose to do that so early on. I think they killed someone else, and that someone was Golden's seduced friend. Then MP wrote the night post to reflect that the SK had both failed to kill one person and also killed Golden. I think that's a far more realistic option.
On hindsight replying to a scum player theorizing about the SK. My scumdar is overheating.

As indicated by the line break, only the bit about Epi was a response to Mac. The other bit is just a general thought that I added into the post rather than make a separate one.

Choutas wrote:There is another post about the SK and how he does things, a modkill/infodumping controversy with Matt F which is pretty null since the game has rules about modkills and what we say has no real effect. I don't know what to think about the infodumping. That exchange reflects worse on Bullzeye since as Matt F said Bullz had Matt in her NO LYNCH list. Here's the post
Bullzeye wrote:Who I don't have an interest in lynching? That's going to be a short list. Let's see:

Bullzeye
Elo
Splints maybe?
JJJ
Matt F but maybe not Matt F at all
MM
Fuzz
Rico
Roxy

I will not be voting for any of these people today, but someone's name not being here doesn't mean I am likely to vote for them. I have excluded both my suspects and people I feel neutral about. Names here are names of those I think are definitely/possibly/likely to be civs. This is why I don't make rainbow lists or whatever the cool kids are calling them nowadays. I suck at them.

Is it so hard to understand that right next to Matt's name it says maybe not Matt? At the time I had always had strong civ feelings about him up until he seemed to be trying to trick me into infodumping and getting myself modkilled. That made me question everything and I was still considering how it made me feel.

#6891

Ricochet wrote: What's going on here?

Something that Choutas remarked himself also came to my notice this time:

Bullzeye wrote: I have fairly bad vibes about BCornett myself tbh, but I feel like my reasoning will be immediately 'discredited' if I share it. It's a card I'm keeping close to my chest until I have more solid reasons to support it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to voting for him.
Is this a hint? What can this mean?

What would it be a hint toward? I already explained why I first suspected Cornett. I thought he was trying to buddy up to Golden by mirroring all his suspicions. The 'discredited' was a nod towards that. I felt that if I'd have said that and had no other supporting arguments, Golden (and probably others) would have immediately used it against me. So I kept quiet for a bit.

#6892

MOTEL ROOM

Spoiler: show

Notes on motel room - he's only moved his vote around on two occasions, both during lynches of mafia. He voted Long Con originally on Day 2, moved off to Choutas, then back onto Long Con later on. Then on Day 6, he voted Diiny, then moved to Black Rock, then back to Diiny to save MacDougall.

I don't know what to make of this yet tbh.

#6893

Bullzeye wrote:
Ricochet wrote: What's going on here?

Something that Choutas remarked himself also came to my notice this time:

Bullzeye wrote: I have fairly bad vibes about BCornett myself tbh, but I feel like my reasoning will be immediately 'discredited' if I share it. It's a card I'm keeping close to my chest until I have more solid reasons to support it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to voting for him.
Is this a hint? What can this mean?
What would it be a hint toward? I already explained why I first suspected Cornett. I thought he was trying to buddy up to Golden by mirroring all his suspicions. The 'discredited' was a nod towards that. I felt that if I'd have said that and had no other supporting arguments, Golden (and probably others) would have immediately used it against me. So I kept quiet for a bit.

Oh. Understood.

#6894

JJJ where you've been?

#6895

Jay has given us the slip.

#6896

Choutas

Start up position in relation to LC:

	LC with others	others on LC
Choutas	-	Mixed

Votes according to Marsh

Spoiler: show

Choutas - Black MacCon - Choutas

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote:Choutas

Interactions with LC
Nada.

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- Questions MacBaddie being so inactive on D1
-- Rebuttal to Mac on sussing RDW for meta and calling his own gameplay rusty
-- Has MacBaddie as green in his D3 rainbow
-- suspicious of Mac after the D3 GTH for offering only...two baddies? (not sure of actually context)
-- calls Mac among towniest guys in the game, excuses his place in the early Devin vote
-- top of the rainbow reads D5
-- dislikes Mac's SK/kill theories D5, finding them unprovable
-- not sure about Mac after his attitude towards getting heat; also finds Matt's SK theory making complete sense
-- upon Mac's request, makes a case on Epignosis being a possible serial killer; finds reasons to make a case on Epig
-- D6 calls Wilgy and Mac openly interacting as mafioso
-- starts question motel and Floyd on choosing or not to vote Mac
-- MacBaddie top townread D6
-- vouches for MacBaddie's meta
-- picks up Epig's theory on Mac being co-conspirator with LC, but only agrees on the part that mafia is worth hunting more than rogue
-- still clear on not voting Mac
-- save MacDougall fistpump
-- suss's JJJ on idly sitting and watching a Mac lynch happen (?)
-- D7 denies ever suspecting Mac, instead always having a townier read on him;
-- rebuttal

Interactions with Black Rock
-- chats about his name
-- has her neutral in his D3 rainbow
-- has her... dark green? in his D5 rainbow
-- has her... orange in his D6 rainbow; also D7

LC interactions with Choutas
-- Votes Choutas for his freestylin'
-- Agrees with JJJ and Choutas on desire to lynch seaside on D2

MacBaddie interactions with Choutas
-- D1 suss's Choutas on picking on meta (RDW) and claiming rusty gameplay
-- Questions motel on voting Choutas
-- reads Choutas good D3 GTH
-- Mentions Choutas in SK analysis
-- Rebuttals on Choutas finding the Matt SK theories good
-- Comments on Choutas' letter to the SK (finds Choutas' suspects town)
-- faintly critical of Choutas asking for SK to kill Rico rather than making a proper case
-- then, questioning Rico is Choutas above actions really sound anti-town
-- calls Choutas to address Epi being SK issue
-- D6 calls Choutas (alongside motel) worthy of analysis, for being subdued and... teflon

Black Rock interactions with Choutas
-- Only comments on pronounciation of Choutas

Votes
somewhat already interpreted

Read
Scum scum scum scum scumly scum scum scum. So yeah, not much change in my feelings. He insists on having townread Mac constantly, but the history reveals some waffling points, even to the extent of saying a few times that the several theories on Mac being bad make some sense. Perhaps trying to attach himself, early on? "Early on" also seems the motto of his voting - early on, to not get interpreted so much within the main events, perhaps? Oh, except that one time, when, all of a sudden, Mac's lynch seemingly compelled him to act late on. Mac's interactions, by comparison, are really detached and non-descript for most of the game; he only suddenly calls him (alongside motel) worth of inspection on his lynch day, which I find very cute, but it doesn't give me the sense of paintspraying as much with others that Mac hissed at and put labels on, at that point. Choutas said nothing specific of Black Rock, but constantly downgraded here on the rainbow lists, which is a major wtf and reads to me as preparation for her "descent" into modkill. Black Rock was also specifically asked what she thinks of Choutas and only worried about how the name is pronounced.

Choutas - Floyd - Choutas

Spoiler: show

Vote record currently stands on two baddies (LC and Floyd), two mislynches (Devin, sig - both of them also recurring choices) and one unconfirmed (Wilgy).

I shouldn't really need to recap the timing issue of his votes. All of them very, very early, except for D6's very, very late switch to Diiny, in full support of a Mac counterwagon. At least on paper, this dissonance makes Choutas look quite bad.

Entourage-wise, it's hard to say that he joined any company in particular, given his early votes, except perhaps yet again on D6, in case he's bad and he and his teamies tried to save Mac. Currently, that would still keep him in the presence of motel and JJJ, although the others since dead have flipped civilian (sig, seaside). Motel and JJJ also appear alonside Choutas on LC's wagon, D2. However, when Choutas lynched Floyd (let's count both days he voted him), only JJJ appears again in the same company. Yet motel returns alonside him on the sig mislynch. Hmm...

Since he has made no "vote LC" post (Marsh couldn't find it and neither did I), let's have a look if what was posted between his Devin and LC posts (...wait, I also have him having voted Russ; another ghost move?

) warranted him to make a quick move:

-- zebra quadruple-eyeballed LC
-- Devin (I'll start calling him Draconus after this game is done) mentions LC's remarks about MacBaddie sounding good
[-- Devin rebuttals make Choutas "feel bad" a bit about his vote and to call it a transient vote]
-- JJJ talks with sig about finding both him and LC suspicious the Day before
-- I reply on LC's ideas about the "2 out of 7" thing and what Flowers would have done on D1
-- JJJ again names LC suspicious
-- motel calls LC scum
-- motel further calls LC's posts scum, votes him
-- Russ suspects a post by LC
-- sig calls LC top suspect, full case on him
[-- MacBaddie makes his seaside policy lynch statements and gets heat for it, including a vote from Sorsha]
-- Mac talks about LC's points from D1 not being good
-- LC rebuttals and counter-sussing of Mac

when seaside voted RDW, I already had Choutas on my list having voted LC. so, time!

Hmm, still hard to tell. That's four players starting to call LC suss, but the conversation and the voting still didn't pick up any full pace. Only motel had his vote on LC, but later moved it, making Choutas the "next" and ultimately permanent "first" voter.

So it's quite inconclusive to speak of any attempt to place a teammate first in line and hide him behind the players who heated up the wagon for good. Then again, where's Choutas vote post? Where's Choutas anything on LC during that Day, considering he left and never returned. His last D2 post is before much of what I've written above and his return is a triumphant "I caught me a scum :blindemoji:". If I can't really give a suss verdict on this, it's still damn freaky.

#6897

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay has given us the slip.

Turnip must have gotten on a plane and gone to tie him up in RL.

#6898

Ricochet wrote:Vote record currently stands on two baddies (LC and Floyd), two mislynches (Devin, sig - both of them also recurring choices) and one unconfirmed (Wilgy).

I shouldn't really need to recap the timing issue of his votes. All of them very, very early, except for D6's very, very late switch to Diiny, in full support of a Mac counterwagon. At least on paper, this dissonance makes Choutas look quite bad.

Entourage-wise, it's hard to say that he joined any company in particular, given his early votes, except perhaps yet again on D6, in case he's bad and he and his teamies tried to save Mac. Currently, that would still keep him in the presence of motel and JJJ, although the others since dead have flipped civilian (sig, seaside). Motel and JJJ also appear alonside Choutas on LC's wagon, D2. However, when Choutas lynched Floyd (let's count both days he voted him), only JJJ appears again in the same company. Yet motel returns alonside him on the sig mislynch. Hmm...

Since he has made no "vote LC" post (Marsh couldn't find it and neither did I), let's have a look if what was posted between his Devin and LC posts (...wait, I also have him having voted Russ; another ghost move? ) warranted him to make a quick move:

-- zebra quadruple-eyeballed LC
-- Devin (I'll start calling him Draconus after this game is done) mentions LC's remarks about MacBaddie sounding good
[-- Devin rebuttals make Choutas "feel bad" a bit about his vote and to call it a transient vote]
-- JJJ talks with sig about finding both him and LC suspicious the Day before
-- I reply on LC's ideas about the "2 out of 7" thing and what Flowers would have done on D1
-- JJJ again names LC suspicious
-- motel calls LC scum
-- motel further calls LC's posts scum, votes him
-- Russ suspects a post by LC
-- sig calls LC top suspect, full case on him
[-- MacBaddie makes his seaside policy lynch statements and gets heat for it, including a vote from Sorsha]
-- Mac talks about LC's points from D1 not being good
-- LC rebuttals and counter-sussing of Mac

when seaside voted RDW, I already had Choutas on my list having voted LC. so, time!

Hmm, still hard to tell. That's four players starting to call LC suss, but the conversation and the voting still didn't pick up any full pace. Only motel had his vote on LC, but later moved it, making Choutas the "next" and ultimately permanent "first" voter.

So it's quite inconclusive to speak of any attempt to place a teammate first in line and hide him behind the players who heated up the wagon for good. Then again, where's Choutas vote post? Where's Choutas anything on LC during that Day, considering he left and never returned. His last D2 post is before much of what I've written above and his return is a triumphant "I caught me a scum :blindemoji:". If I can't really give a suss verdict on this, it's still damn freaky.

I have a hard time justifying a mafia Choutas' votes for Floyd as well. Bus a teammate right after your own teammate is lynched?

On the other hand, looking at the three mafia we've lynched in this game. If I had to rank them in terms of "most likely to have been a busjob", I would list them as Floyd > Long Con > MacDougall, and with there being a large gap between Long Con and MacDougall. I know I said before we can't assume a bus did happen in any of these cases, but these are how I'd rank them in terms of likelihood. My justification:

a) Floyd is a new player. He looks like he's having fun in this game, but a lot of the action still probably has gone over his head, and there are potentially multiple scumslips that came from him, chiefly RadicalFuzz and Strawhenge interactions. Being a new player, he was going to get lynched eventually, so why not make a profit out of it?

b) Long Con, as others had stated, has an incredibly complex game that he is hosting right now that he needs to look after. Also, his plan on Day 1 appeared to backfire. So going into Day 2, he had plenty of reason to want out of this game, and for other people to want his head. Still, it's a bit hypothetical, and we've already seen that 3 of his 8 voters are not mafia. On the other hand, let's take a look at the numbers. There were 30 players alive at the time of his lynch, and 11 alive now (36.6 %). There were 8 players that voted in the Long Con lynch, and 5 of them are still alive now (62.5 %). I'd argue that offers a decent likelihood that there is at least one mafia on the Long Con lynch with there being such a drastic difference in survival percentages.

c) MacDougall was a very vocal, and also a well-vouched for player in the thread. His lynch was extremely close, and he had several vocal supporters in his defense, and he's a damn good mafia player. If he was bussed, it certainly wasn't planned, and is more likely to have been a late attempt. Let's look at numbers here too. 21 players were alive when MacDougall was lynched, and 11 are alive now (52.4 %). 7 players voted for Mac on his lynch, and 4 are still alive (57.1 %). Those numbers are significantly closer together, and suggest that MacDougall was not bussed.

#6899

Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay has given us the slip.
Turnip must have gotten on a plane and gone to tie him up in RL.

Why would Turnips do that?

#6900

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay has given us the slip.
Turnip must have gotten on a plane and gone to tie him up in RL.
Why would Turnips do that?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I have a hard time justifying a mafia Choutas' votes for Floyd as well. Bus a teammate right after your own teammate is lynched?

Can you clarify this or is it in your previous post on Choutas? It reads like "I can't see Choutas being mafia, given his Floyd vote", yet...you voted Choutas?

I agree with your Floyd > LC > Mac busjob possibility and analysis.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

How would you rate Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)?