[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

#6901

Oh, and I didn't notice before, but Bullzeye included my "What's going on here?" question in his rebuttal about his "hint".

I meant that question in relation to the Bullzeye - Choutas interactions.

#6902

I still find the other ideas I pointed out suspicious. I was just trying to justify Choutas potentially bussing Floyd as a teammate. The only reason I can think is that Floyd, thanks to his own behaviour, was an easy bus. "_"

#6903

Rico, who do you want to lynch today?

#6904

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a) Floyd is a new player. He looks like he's having fun in this game, but a lot of the action still probably has gone over his head, and there are potentially multiple scumslips that came from him, chiefly RadicalFuzz and Strawhenge interactions. Being a new player, he was going to get lynched eventually, so why not make a profit out of it?

Your argument is that Floyd was the most likely to be bussed out of the three Mafia that have been lynched so far.
You cite my hesitation to vote for Floyd as scummy.
Can you help me understand?
If he's the most likely to be bussed, and would've been lynched eventually anyway, you make it sound as if Mafia would be quick to vote him. I never did.

#6905

Metalmarsh89 wrote:RICOCHET

Spoiler: show
Day 1 - bea (1st of 1) (30th of 31)
Day 2 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (16th of 29)
Day 3 - Golden (7th of 7) (25th of 26)
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient (6th of 9) (17th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (7th of 8) (22nd of 23)
Day 6 - MacDougall (2nd of 7) (4th of 19)
Day 7 - sig ---> Choutas (1st of 1) (9th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (3rd of 4) (15th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (5th of 5) (16th of 16)

Thoughts: There has been a trend in Rico's votes. Vote late. He's treated this game like a game without changeable votes. Nothing wrong with that. Rico did not vote late on 2 occasions, once on Day 6 after he posted a massive case against MacDougall. A second time on Day 7, when he voted sig and moved to Choutas, both solitary votes. I highly doubt Ricochet is mafia though.

Another thing I noticed. The last two day phases, Rico was less certain of himself with his vote. Each day up through Day 7, he has looked fairly confident in his approach and his vote, offering descriptive reasons for placing where he did. However, on Day 8, Rico went back and reread all but three players in the game. But he still placed his vote on one of the three players he did not reread (myself), trusting the shout of another player (Strawhenge). On Day 9, he is going over players again, and seems to realize he's low on time. He rushes to break the tie and lynch sig. I don't think this trend will continue, but it's worth noting.

#6906

da fuq

#6907

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Rico, who do you want to lynch today?

You.

---

I don't think you commented on my double kill question today? Didn't you propose it back on Day 5, was it? Awfully quiet about this second occurence, now that both victims got killed - compared to first time, where we had the Girlfriend is Better plausibility.

#6908

RICOCHET

Spoiler: show

Thoughts: There has been a trend in Rico's votes. Vote late. He's treated this game like a game without changeable votes. Nothing wrong with that. Rico did not vote late on 2 occasions, once on Day 6 after he posted a massive case against MacDougall. A second time on Day 7, when he voted sig and moved to Choutas, both solitary votes. I highly doubt Ricochet is mafia though.

Another thing I noticed. The last two day phases, Rico was less certain of himself with his vote. Each day up through Day 7, he has looked fairly confident in his approach and his vote, offering descriptive reasons for placing where he did. However, on Day 8, Rico went back and reread all but three players in the game. But he still placed his vote on one of the three players he did not reread (myself), trusting the shout of another player (Strawhenge). On Day 9, he is going over players again, and seems to realize he's low on time. He rushes to break the tie and lynch sig. I don't think this trend will continue, but it's worth noting.

#6909

#6910

Metalmarsh89 wrote:RICOCHET

Spoiler: show
Day 1 - bea (1st of 1) (30th of 31)
Day 2 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (16th of 29)
Day 3 - Golden (7th of 7) (25th of 26)
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient (6th of 9) (17th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (7th of 8) (22nd of 23)
Day 6 - MacDougall (2nd of 7) (4th of 19)
Day 7 - sig ---> Choutas (1st of 1) (9th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (3rd of 4) (15th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (5th of 5) (16th of 16)

Thoughts: There has been a trend in Rico's votes. Vote late. He's treated this game like a game without changeable votes. Nothing wrong with that. Rico did not vote late on 2 occasions, once on Day 6 after he posted a massive case against MacDougall. A second time on Day 7, when he voted sig and moved to Choutas, both solitary votes. I highly doubt Ricochet is mafia though.

Another thing I noticed. The last two day phases, Rico was less certain of himself with his vote. Each day up through Day 7, he has looked fairly confident in his approach and his vote, offering descriptive reasons for placing where he did. However, on Day 8, Rico went back and reread all but three players in the game. But he still placed his vote on one of the three players he did not reread (myself), trusting the shout of another player (Strawhenge). On Day 9, he is going over players again, and seems to realize he's low on time. He rushes to break the tie and lynch sig. I don't think this trend will continue, but it's worth noting.[/quote]

Uhm I didn't vote sig that Day, despite that underline format.

You are correct on my MacBaddie vote being made in time with my case making finding him baddie.

The lack of certainty relates to the lack of certainty I got from my latest reads - or from not managing to properly finish them. I voted you because of Strawhenge, correct. You were a top wagon contender, so I was certain in wanting to vote for your lynch.

Also, if I don't manage my time better today and tomorrow, I might fark myself with doing reads yet again.

But workin' on it, for the next hour or so.

#6911

oh for crying out loud

#6912

Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Rico, who do you want to lynch today?
You.

---

I don't think you commented on my double kill question today? Didn't you propose it back on Day 5, was it? Awfully quiet about this second occurence, now that both victims got killed - compared to first time, where we had the Girlfriend is Better plausibility.

Yes according to my theory, Psycho Killer shouldn't be able to kill tonight.

If you want to lynch me, why don't you quit going over all the other players in the game (which you've done already, more than once for some) and offer some reads on me? You don't sound sincere at all.

#6913

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Rico, who do you want to lynch today?
You.

---

I don't think you commented on my double kill question today? Didn't you propose it back on Day 5, was it? Awfully quiet about this second occurence, now that both victims got killed - compared to first time, where we had the Girlfriend is Better plausibility.
Yes according to my theory, Psycho Killer shouldn't be able to kill tonight.

If you want to lynch me, why don't you quit going over all the other players in the game (which you've done already, more than once for some) and offer some reads on me? You don't sound sincere at all.

I read you on Day 8.

#6914

Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Rico, who do you want to lynch today?
You.

---

I don't think you commented on my double kill question today? Didn't you propose it back on Day 5, was it? Awfully quiet about this second occurence, now that both victims got killed - compared to first time, where we had the Girlfriend is Better plausibility.
Yes according to my theory, Psycho Killer shouldn't be able to kill tonight.

If you want to lynch me, why don't you quit going over all the other players in the game (which you've done already, more than once for some) and offer some reads on me? You don't sound sincere at all.
I read you on Day 8.

In fact, that makes my vote for you back then not quite "simple flinging", wouldn't you say?

Who's insincere now, trying to paint my vote back then as weak?

#6915

Is that the result of putting a spoiler in a spoiler on this site?

#6916

RadicalFuzz wrote:Is that the result of putting a spoiler in a spoiler on this site?

I don't think so, there aren't spoilers inside spoilers in MM's quote.

#6917

This was your only response to Jay. You thrust the responsibility on his read, not yours.

But I stand corrected, I missed your read of me from Day 8.

#6918

RadicalFuzz wrote:Is that the result of putting a spoiler in a spoiler on this site?

I had an extra [quote opening tag in mine, but didn't close it. That combined with the spoiler tags did it though.

The spoilers we have weren't built for our site, and we've only had them here for the last few months or so, so they are relatively new. My understanding is that they are still quite tweaky, and that's related to why we can't embed spoilers in spoilers.

Hi RadicalFuzz. What have you to say today?

#6919

Metalmarsh89 wrote:This was your only response to Jay. You thrust the responsibility on his read, not yours.

But I stand corrected, I missed your read of me from Day 8.

And by his, I mean you put it on Strawhenge.

#6920

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Is that the result of putting a spoiler in a spoiler on this site?
I had an extra [quote opening tag in mine, but didn't close it. That combined with the spoiler tags did it though.

The spoilers we have weren't built for our site, and we've only had them here for the last few months or so, so they are relatively new. My understanding is that they are still quite tweaky, and that's related to why we can't embed spoilers in spoilers.

Hi RadicalFuzz. What have you to say today?

That makes sense, then, thanks for the info.

Let's see, lemme get a short list going.

-Could you answer my question from a bit earlier? I don't get where you're coming from.
-I'm glad you're not on the poll because it means I'm not the only one disconcerted by your behavior.
-I'm curious as to who was blocked last night. Take Me To The River clearly targeted you, barring "secrets" shenanigans, and someone else.
-I'm also interested to note what allegiance Take Me To The River thinks you are. If he targeted you for the role-block ability, he likely doubts you're town. If for the "not on the poll" ability, he trusts that you're civilian.
-SK killed twice. From reading through the roles I don't see how. My current assumption is that it's in the "secrets" part of the role.

And J3, as for my responses being underwhelming, what did you expect? My actions are objectively horrible, that was pointed out repeatedly yesterday. I am curious at how seemingly everyone decided that my "tone" (or whatever reason they were townreading me until recently) was no longer enough to be a townread right around the same time. For the record I don't necessarily think you're Mafia because of your push against me. It originated from an ISO and it was a logical conclusion. There are more reasons to believe you're clean than scummy, the biggest contributor for me being your attempted counterwagon onto Black Rock combined with your attempted counterwagon onto Diiny the day Mac was lynched. You would've preferred a BR lynch and asked for traction for that first. Scum saving scum wouldn't try to form a new wagon against scum if they had other options. Additionally, that's assuming that Diiny is civilian. If Diiny is scum then that makes even less sense. I can't see you doing that if you were able to make an informed decision.

Wilgy, if you had to vote between J3 and Rico, gun to your head LYLO, who would you choose?

#6921

Five syndicats remain, five rimmers remain.

#6922

MM your theory about me bussing teammates is wrong. You must have mistaken me with RDW who has bussed at least a dozen of players. I've never bussed someone and even if I did buss someday somehow I doubt I'd go full retard and buss half the team if I were scum.
Fwiw I was a member of the only perfect mafia win where we won without losing a single member. We could have bussed a teammate at the endgame but we decided to push for a townie lynch even harder and claim a perfect win.
This not me. Choutas doesn't roll like that.

#6923

motel room wrote:Five syndicats remain, five rimmers remain.

I think you mean 7 and 4.

Bullzeye and I are honorary Rymers.

#6924

No way I'm making it to lylo, Fuzz, lol.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
motel room wrote:Five syndicats remain, five rimmers remain.
I think you mean 7 and 4.

Bullzeye and I are deserting Rymers.

Fixed.

#6925

Choutas wrote:MM your theory about me bussing teammates is wrong. You must have mistaken me with RDW who has bussed at least a dozen of players. I've never bussed someone and even if I did buss someday somehow I doubt I'd go full retard and buss half the team if I were scum.
Fwiw I was a member of the only perfect mafia win where we won without losing a single member. We could have bussed a teammate at the endgame but we decided to push for a townie lynch even harder and claim a perfect win.
This not me. Choutas doesn't roll like that.

That certainly stands in your favor.

But I can't just dismiss you as civilian because of that.

Linki:

#6926

Oh yeah, and oh yeah Bullzeye was sanmateo.

#6927

Ricochet wrote:No way I'm making it to lylo, Fuzz, lol.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
motel room wrote:Five syndicats remain, five rimmers remain.
I think you mean 7 and 4.

Bullzeye and I are deserting Rymers.
Fixed.

You can't lunch me if I'm 'desert'.

#6928

You can't "dismiss" him as civilian?

If you're town that's valuable information.
If you're scum you already knew that.
If you're SK his allegiance is mostly irrelevant to you.

Your statement sounds like it originates from the third viewpoint.

#6929

Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?

#6930

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:CUT TO: Shot of a dead body by a lake on a gray day. JAY, RICO, and RUSSTI stand in their raincoats amidst the uniformed patrolmen who set up a perimeter. They scan the horizon, looking pretty hard.
Is this a porno?
Considering the dead body, I hope not.
Hold me Doctor.

RadicalFuzz wrote:Wilgy, if you had to vote between J3 and Rico, gun to your head LYLO, who would you choose?

JJJ

Can I have credit for the Choutas bussing theory plz?

#6931

RadicalFuzz wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a) Floyd is a new player. He looks like he's having fun in this game, but a lot of the action still probably has gone over his head, and there are potentially multiple scumslips that came from him, chiefly RadicalFuzz and Strawhenge interactions. Being a new player, he was going to get lynched eventually, so why not make a profit out of it?
Your argument is that Floyd was the most likely to be bussed out of the three Mafia that have been lynched so far.
You cite my hesitation to vote for Floyd as scummy.
Can you help me understand?
If he's the most likely to be bussed, and would've been lynched eventually anyway, you make it sound as if Mafia would be quick to vote him. I never did.

I'm trying to put things up for discussion RadicalFuzz. Why are you spinning these ideas with my suspicions of you? This post has every intent of discrediting my posts.

In my original post, I started by saying "If I had to rank the lynched mafia in terms of most likely to be bussed..." and offered reasons for each one. You conveniently cut that part out, and I do not appreciate this.

Sorry I missed this before. It must have been the obliterated posts around this one that caused me to miss it.

#6932

RadicalFuzz wrote:You can't "dismiss" him as civilian?

If you're town that's valuable information.
If you're scum you already knew that.
If you're SK his allegiance is mostly irrelevant to you.

Your statement sounds like it originates from the third viewpoint.

MM status:

#6933

RadicalFuzz wrote:You can't "dismiss" him as civilian?

If you're town that's valuable information.
If you're scum you already knew that.
If you're SK his allegiance is mostly irrelevant to you.

Your statement sounds like it originates from the third viewpoint.

Again, you missed the point of my post, and even every piece of my post. Before I said we can't dismiss him as civilian, I acknowledged that it was a favorable look for him. Meta is (typically) important for reading a player, but it should not be the soul method for reading a player.

That's now twice you've misinterpreted my posts.

#6934

Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?

I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.

#6935

Choutas wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?
I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.

An "I agree with others on LC" or something like that would have sufficed, for the stuff you say in the second half. I can't take your word for something not posted in-thread.

Also, I can relate myself to 3-4-5am deadlines being a total bitch, but really? That's your justification for always voting early? Your D2 departure didn't even happen on the EoD day, but with more than 24 hours before! Judging by the posts, you voted around that time as well.

#6936

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
a) Floyd is a new player. He looks like he's having fun in this game, but a lot of the action still probably has gone over his head, and there are potentially multiple scumslips that came from him, chiefly RadicalFuzz and Strawhenge interactions. Being a new player, he was going to get lynched eventually, so why not make a profit out of it?
Your argument is that Floyd was the most likely to be bussed out of the three Mafia that have been lynched so far.
You cite my hesitation to vote for Floyd as scummy.
Can you help me understand?
If he's the most likely to be bussed, and would've been lynched eventually anyway, you make it sound as if Mafia would be quick to vote him. I never did.
I'm trying to put things up for discussion RadicalFuzz. Why are you spinning these ideas with my suspicions of you? This post has every intent of discrediting my posts.

In my original post, I started by saying "If I had to rank the lynched mafia in terms of most likely to be bussed..." and offered reasons for each one. You conveniently cut that part out, and I do not appreciate this.

Sorry I missed this before. It must have been the obliterated posts around this one that caused me to miss it.

Sorry, I'm not cutting things out of quotes to intentionally misconstrue your words, it's just a force of habit. I'm also sorry that I'm not coming across clearly, or if I am I don't understand exactly what I'm saying. You say Floyd is the most likely to be bussed, if any Mafia were bussed. You're saying that my distancing from Floyd was not part of your suspicions against me?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:You can't "dismiss" him as civilian?

If you're town that's valuable information.
If you're scum you already knew that.
If you're SK his allegiance is mostly irrelevant to you.

Your statement sounds like it originates from the third viewpoint.
Again, you missed the point of my post, and even every piece of my post. Before I said we can't dismiss him as civilian, I acknowledged that it was a favorable look for him. Meta is (typically) important for reading a player, but it should not be the soul method for reading a player.

That's now twice you've misinterpreted my posts.

Here is the post:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Choutas wrote:MM your theory about me bussing teammates is wrong. You must have mistaken me with RDW who has bussed at least a dozen of players. I've never bussed someone and even if I did buss someday somehow I doubt I'd go full retard and buss half the team if I were scum.
Fwiw I was a member of the only perfect mafia win where we won without losing a single member. We could have bussed a teammate at the endgame but we decided to push for a townie lynch even harder and claim a perfect win.
This not me. Choutas doesn't roll like that.
That certainly stands in your favor.

But I can't just dismiss you as civilian because of that.

Linki:

I'm looking at this in context, with the qualifier beforehand. "That certainly looks good for you but I can't just dismiss you as civilian" is a weird statement for a civilian to make. It reads as if you don't care about the fact that you strongly believe someone to be civilian, it's downplaying that.

#6937

I don't strongly believe Choutas to be civilian. On the contrary, I've made observations about some of his votes, and why I think they look bad. I even have my vote on him right now.

It is rarely a case in a game where info-dumping is not allowed, that someone can be cleared as civilian. I was emphasizing that despite his claim that he has never bussed a teammate as mafia, that doesn't mean he is not mafia.

#6938

Question to anyone. Why would Strawhenge be so convinced that I am Psycho Killer (and at one point Psycho Killer or Life during Wartime)?

More specifically, what role do you think he would have that could give him this knowledge?

#6939

Diiny

Start up position in relation to LC

	LC with others	others on LC
Diiny	Neutral	Positive

Votes according to Marsh

Metalmarsh89 wrote: DIINY

Spoiler: show
Day 1 - bcornett24 ---> birdwithteeth (6th of 7) (21st of 31)
Day 2 - seaside ---> thellama73 (2nd of 3) (20th of 29)
Day 3 - Ricochet (3rd of 6) (18th of 26)
Day 4 - Golden (1st of 1) (23rd of 24)
Day 5 - JaggedJimmyJay ---> Devin the Omniscient ---> espers (6th of 8) (21st of 23)
Day 6 - No Vote
Day 7 - JaggedJimmyJay ---> seaside (7th of 8) (17th of 18)
Day 8 - TheFloyd73 (2nd of 5) (7th of 17)
Day 9 - sig ---> RadicalFuzz (4th of 4) (15th of 16)

Diiny - Black MacCon - Diiny

Spoiler: show

Interactions with LC
-- D1 questions LC for reads outside of his bea case
-- D2 plans to look at LC case, but mentions that he didn't stood out to him
-- Would vote Wilgy as his scummiest read, but intends to secure B24 over LC, after he finishes reading LC
-- (post-lynch) considers that scumsters might have tried pushing the b24 wagon in front of LC
-- (post-lynch) D5 comes back to the idea that Wilgy may have bussed LC and cased him afterwards

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- fends off MacBaddie's assertion that Diiny isn't responding to his accusations (by saying he'd rather focus on who to vote)
-- talks with him about Llama wagon making it unlikely llama is bad
-- questions MacBaddie on b24
-- picks up MacBaddie's thought that Devin might be forcing a replacement request (despite reading it as a joke, at the same time)
-- just like MacBaddie, would rather see a coin flip lynch on D5
-- (post-lynch) dislikes Sig's non-committal stance on voting Mac
-- (post-lynch) plans to check how much Choutas read Mac town prior to lynch Day; later notes Choutas suspecting Mac after all
-- (post-lynch) susses seaside for voting him, then talking about his counterwagon proving Mac was not a mislynch
-- (post-lynch) questions JJJ looking the worst out of the Diiny counter-wagoners
-- (post-lynch) would lynch Choutas for lying about never suspecting Mac

Interactions with Black Rock (all "brian" and "bribri", no "BR")
-- (post flip) can't remember who cased BR, other than JJJ, called BR very inactive

LC interactions with Diiny
-- in reply to Diiny, comments on Roxy, RVSing, JJJ/Epig/Sig Dusk0 votes
-- tangentially includes bea's talk with Diiny in his bullsuit bea case
-- criticises MacBaddie for suspecting and doubting his suspicion on Diiny in the same post

MacBaddie interactions with Diiny
-- votes Diiny initially, due to his noise-making without substantial content
-- notices Diiny not reacting to accusations against him
-- mocks FZ for thinking the Diiny wagon is not worth considering
-- keeps Diiny suspect in conversation on Flowers (?)
-- doubts Diiny would blatantly declare to vote BWT in self-defense, if he'd be scum (?)
-- votes Llama and keeps it there D2 for his reasoning on voting Diiny
-- reads Diiny good in D3 GTH
-- reads Diiny bad D4 when questioned about seaside; later suss's him for early game and post count drop since
-- reads Diiny bad D5, votes Diiny
-- softened on Diiny after D5 lynch
-- would rather lynch Wilgy than Diiny D6
-- wagons on Diiny D6

Black Rock interactions with Diiny
-- says she has no opinion on Diiny (and espers) D5 and would not make pressure votes on either

Votes
D1 BWT for his gameplay claim and timid "non-stance" on LC; later rejects Wilgy's case being influential
D2 votes Llama, despite saying he might contribute to B24-LC wagon; also letting Wilgy off the hook for that time being
D3 votes Rico for seemingly putting LC on top of his town reads, with caveaty remarks
D4 votes Golden, avoiding Sorsha-Devin wagons, calls it later a joke vote, in light of failing to catch up
D5 votes espers to avoid Devin lynch, also for posts on gold, wagoning early on sorsha w. strange reasoning
D6 misses vote
D7 last minute seaside vote, based on Epignosis late post, concerning seaside and Choutas (although would have voted JJJ over brian, at one point)

Side-note #1: Agreed with Wilgy's point on BWT gameplay claim, then flipped on Wilgy looking bad for this vote, then D2 questions FZ on why she suspects Wilgy for his LC, hard-to-catch-up vote.

Read
This is why it's hard to do these reads as a pessimist (and borderline paranoia/what-if-titis stricken). Nothing about Diiny's history is particularly clean; I still remember occasionally reading him town, than being spooked by something he said and suddenly considering him worse; I feel like I'm at that stage again, with all of this in front of me. His take on LC is non-committal and that initiative to vote b24 instead of LC, then not doing it altogether, doesn't look very good - it could read as if a) there was actual temptation to wagon on B24 to save LC, if b24 is good or b) b24 is bad and those are empty words, and the team just had to face seeing both LC and b24 stand as wagons and LC having no choice left but to tie himself up with a teammate. He took the "LC defenders are scum" stance on me, but then avoided two major mislynches (Sorsha and Devin), although contributing to the third (espers). Seaside vote looks terribly wagony, considering the time and the past initiatives to vote JJJ over b24; again a non-stance on voting b24! MacBaddie sussed him hard (although with minor inconsistencies) and Black Rock ignored him for the whole game.

This being said, he was still the counterwagon meant to save MacBaddie, which is a big argument for me in his favor. Again, I think the mafia was hopeful to save MacDougall, I think we may have teammates on Diiny's wagon, we have a confirmed baddie on that wagon (and MacBaddie didn't exactly voted in self-defense, as far as timing goes), so it'd be a cruel and unusual thing to resort to wagoning two teammates - except, again, if Diiny's wagon was civilian fueled and the team had to live up with it. But I'm not leaning on this, right now.

I'd keep Diiny in short sight. I also feel any flip on Wilgy or b24 would generate more context about Diiny flip-flopping repeatedly on them.

Diiny - Floyd - Diiny

Spoiler: show

Vote record stands at two mislynches (BWT, seaside), one baddie catch (Floyd), two votes placed on civilians (llama, Golden), two unresolved (me, Fuzz), one missed vote.

Entourage-wise, Diiny is now:

-- D2 only player left on Llama wagon, in company of the late MacBadskie and espers
-- D3 in the company of JJJ and Diiny on my wagon
-- D4 solo on Golden (and that vote was a joke, after all)
-- D5 part of an espers wagon in which everybody except Matt is still kicking right now
-- D7 only player left on JJJ wagon, in company of the late BadFloyd and seaside, sig
-- D8 in company of Chou and JJJ, of those still alive, on Floyd wagon
-- D9 in comapny of MM, JJJ on Fuzz wagon

So very recurrent voting alongside JJJ, apparently, but to be honest, Diiny has voted on plenty wagons, so it's not so striking.

Looking back at the first read, I see I've written that a b24 flip would shed more light (Diiny wanting to lynch b24 over LC, then dropping both; then wanting to lynch JJJ over b24, and never capitalizing there either), and right now b24 looks likely civilian killed by the mafia team. If b24 would have flipped baddie in plain sight, I would have suspected Diiny of waffling over a teammate, if not two. The opposite doesn't clear Diiny completely either, because abstaining from a b24 on D2 is what very likely every mafia member did. But idk, this angle is pretty bendy and doesn't look to me so much of the essence as it did back then.

I'll be honest, gut tells me to not stray away, despite all the spotty details Diiny's ISO brings occasionally (particularly in voting), from the evidence that Diiny was counterwagon on a Day when mafia was probably hopeful to save Mac. Mac himself demanded a counterwagon; sure, he pushed for a Wilgy counterwagon at one point, but then went along with Diiny. Reading back on that, it seems more likely Diiny was a consistent choice for Mac to hatch an escape plan, based on previous sussing, and his "shrug *voting Diiny*" post inspires more "meh, idgaf", then seeing a Diiny wagon grow and having no choice but to counterwagon on a teammate.

It feels unnatural to suspect Diiny on other stuff, despite this D6 moment. So again, gut tells me to leave it at that and just harakiri yourself, post-game, if this proves to have been an inspired baddie move, to block any susslight on Diiny afterwards. Sometimes it's better to raise your hat if it'll turn out ya got duped, then let yourself consumed by paranoia, at a stage when you can't afford it too much anymore.

#6940

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Question to anyone. Why would Strawhenge be so convinced that I am Psycho Killer (and at one point Psycho Killer or Life during Wartime)?

More specifically, what role do you think he would have that could give him this knowledge?

I think whatever he has on you is not stemming for the thread, so I doubt I can say what I think that Straw did outside the thread to get the impression that you are a killer.

Also, this request is by itself fishy. Either you're bad and want assistance in pinning down Straw, or, in case you are not a killer, such discussion could lead to the mafia and the SK paying more attention.

#6941

Ricochet wrote:
Choutas wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?
I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.
An "I agree with others on LC" or something like that would have sufficed, for the stuff you say in the second half. I can't take your word for something not posted in-thread.

Also, I can relate myself to 3-4-5am deadlines being a total bitch, but really? That's your justification for always voting early? Your D2 departure didn't even happen on the EoD day, but with more than 24 hours before! Judging by the posts, you voted around that time as well.

Nah I've said why I believed Floyd was scum. I made my case on different days also. You compare two completely different things. Just because I voted LC early without my own case doesn't mean I voted the subsequent days without a case. Today haven't I put forth reasons to vote for Bullzeye? The comparison is dangerous and misleading. I vote early to create my own wagons on people I consider scum. I don't like to hop on other player's reads unless I am completely AWOL all day or clueless on reads.

#6942

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't strongly believe Choutas to be civilian. On the contrary, I've made observations about some of his votes, and why I think they look bad. I even have my vote on him right now.

It is rarely a case in a game where info-dumping is not allowed, that someone can be cleared as civilian. I was emphasizing that despite his claim that he has never bussed a teammate as mafia, that doesn't mean he is not mafia.

I don't like your wording son. Either I am a civilian or am I scum(or you mean rogue)? This word games where you use the negative and civilian to not say what you truly think is goddamn suspicious I must say.

#6943

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Also CHOUTAS.

His vote record looks bad. Yes he voted Long Con on Day 1 and Floyd on Day 8, but in both cases, his vote was the first on the wagon. Otherwise, he has shown the tendency to vote early and not alter his vote (except for the case I noted previously).

So I found this post interesting. I think it was JJJ that said yesterday he thinks people who vote early look more civ. You're saying here they look less so, and in another post you cited some of my late votes as a reason your mind has changed somewhat on me.

I'm personally inclined to view a patter of vote times as mainly situation-specific. Choutas lives in Europe; I get off work 2-3 hours before lynches. I do think baddies can occasionally be found voting in the middle of packs, to avoid looking like they have too much influence over a lynch, but generally I only use vote timing as a supplement to more substantial cases. I'm interested in what others think about the vote timing issue.

Linki: So I feel like I get what you're driving at with Strawhenge's role, MM, but if I'm reading this in relation to your other posts, I don't see how he could be convinced you are one of those two (or any two) roles. Is that the point you're trying to make, that he couldn't know? Or is it just that I'm missing something?

#6944

It's really funny how everybody posts but refrains from voting. Seriously what's up with that. Suddenly JJJ will come in drop in a vote and some voters will blindly follow. Someone will say "Absolutely not, X is a better choice" and other players will vote or unvote and follow that also.

Seriously what's up with all of you it's Day 10. You still haven't made up your mind on who is the most suspicious player based on you reads ffs?

#6945

Choutas wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Choutas wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?
I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.
An "I agree with others on LC" or something like that would have sufficed, for the stuff you say in the second half. I can't take your word for something not posted in-thread.

Also, I can relate myself to 3-4-5am deadlines being a total bitch, but really? That's your justification for always voting early? Your D2 departure didn't even happen on the EoD day, but with more than 24 hours before! Judging by the posts, you voted around that time as well.
Nah I've said why I believed Floyd was scum. I made my case on different days also. You compare two completely different things. Just because I voted LC early without my own case doesn't mean I voted the subsequent days without a case. Today haven't I put forth reasons to vote for Bullzeye? The comparison is dangerous and misleading. I vote early to create my own wagons on people I consider scum. I don't like to hop on other player's reads unless I am completely AWOL all day or clueless on reads.

Either we misunderstand each other a bit, or huh? I've asked you questions specifically about LC's lynch Day and you now claim you've given me an answer that related to Floyd and to your game in general?

Yes, I pushed a bit too much the voting mentality you mentioned into questioning if it's your tactic at any time, sorry about that. Nonetheless: How can "Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes)." apply to D2? That's my dillemma. You voted and vanished with more than a day to go. That's hardly danger of missing an EoD.

#6946

Spoiler: show

Metalmarsh89 wrote:But hey, I did learn some things from skimming through players' posts looking for all of their votes cast. Here are quick thoughts I have on players.

Bullzeye - There's that MacDougall interaction that Epignosis. But everything else feels less... bad. Nothing stood out as super-civ, but nothing bad either. I don't know I'll have to revisit him again I think. After browsing through 6 other players after Bullzeye, my thoughts are all over the place now.

Choutas - I commented on the votes already. He's often voted early without changing his vote beyond that. The only exception was seemingly to try and save a lynched mafia. He has dropped in my rainbow list.

Diiny - His contributions have not been great. Like Bullzeye, I had thoughts before, which have been replaced by the other players I've looked at since, but I do recall him being very go-along in his demeanor.

DrWilgy - His case on Day 2 against Long Con looks really good (barring at strategic bussing attempt). He's still been pretty solid since then. He helped lynch MacDougall on Day 6, and his votes outside of just seemed solid. Also, like Strawhenge, there was a point where he was trying to push an idea that relied on info, before he realized the error in his ways. Like Strawhenge, I think this is a good look for the doctor.

RadicalFuzz - Voting record doesn't look good. His attitude is solid and consistent, but he's done a good job at not committing to any reads on players that happened to flip mafia, specifically MacDougall and Floyd. Each of his votes has not resulted in a lynch with two exceptions. 1) espers on Day 5. Espers did lead the lynch 8-6 over Devin, but Devin was lynched instead due to vote manipulations. 2) Fuzz voted sig on Day 9, but that was a self-preservation vote. Thus, both of these exceptions get stars next to them, and don't make his vote record very solid.

Russtifinko - My mind has been changed on Russti. I think I may have tunneled on him quite a bit this game. Russti has not been afraid of making a decisive vote, whether it be on a baddie or a civilian. This consistent aggressive strategy has more potential to come from a civilian than a mafia member, in my opinion. He's got balls, and his output has been consistent throughout this game. Yes he has said several things that seem waffly/weird, but he's generally been open-minded as well, not afraid to trust another player when he was not certain (which was the case in the Long Con lynch).

Strawhenge - I can't see him being mafia at all. I've got a role pegged for him right now, and I've seen strong flashes of a civilian playstyle that I've noticed in my RYM research of him. I also completely understand the effects of burnout.

So this is mainly a stylistic point, but I love this post (and not primarily because MM's read of me improved in it). I just find this kind of simple statement of opinion with reasoning very easy to follow, as opposed to some of the denser quote- and spoiler-heavy posts that go around. I figure, I can always look up vote records or posts to see if the opinions are based in real observations. I motion for more content like this - I know it helps me avoid burnout. Are others of the same mindset?

Linki: I committed to reread some people today, but I'm catching up on current topics first. I don't want to get locked into a mode of thinking from a prior day, so my vote will come out when I decide I'm confident in it's placement. Can't speak for others, though.

#6947

Feeling silly for being wrong about Brian. Hopefully he was the sk and I was partially right

Straw, you win the award for my favourite post in this thread.

I'm rereading the last few pages, particularly J's straw iso

#6948

Rico, I see your point here. If you think this is such a big deal, though, why are you bringing it up 8 days later? I agree that not posting a case is a faux pas, but I think the statute of limitations has run out, there.

#6949

I'm in the middle of something (again), I'll vote when I'm decided on someone. The day is 48 hours, regardless how convinced of your lynch option you start it or not.

#6950

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't strongly believe Choutas to be civilian. On the contrary, I've made observations about some of his votes, and why I think they look bad. I even have my vote on him right now.

It is rarely a case in a game where info-dumping is not allowed, that someone can be cleared as civilian. I was emphasizing that despite his claim that he has never bussed a teammate as mafia, that doesn't mean he is not mafia.

I don't care about whether you think Choutas is town, scum, or a manhole cover. I am talking about your use of the word "dismiss." I believe that the word "dismiss" in that context provides insight that you would not be particularly thrilled to have a strong town read. The reasons for that town read are irrelevant to this conversation. I have difficulty seeing a civilian go "Oh, he's probably civilian, cool. I'll just leave him alone over there then," especially at this point in the game.

An unrelated question, MM: Did you change your vote to Choutas because you found suspicious things about him you didn't see yesterday, or because you changed your mind about the suspicions you held against me yesterday?

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
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2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

How would you rate Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)?