[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

1) The current deadline is horrible for me. I wouldn't mind a shortening. Preferably by lynching a baddie and shortening it to 0 minutes. But anyway, whenever the Night will be, a shorter one would nice also be. That's not a TH lyric, btw, just my brain malfunctioning.

2) I don't think 24-hour Day period switch is the right thing at the moment. I can't project when it would be a good thing. I doubt it would be a good thing even for a 3-people lylo, except if we just shout each other GTH instead of re-reading an 8000-page game.

[Ricochet]

I...am...a God...of...the no-life human species.

JJ mof'ing J

in honor of JJJ's record-breaking 1000+ posts in the Syndicate game

Disclaimer: please report any mistakes in the stats; also, please deal with it re: any typos, grammer or such

Start up position with JJJ

-	LC with others	others on LC
JJJ	Neutral	Mixed

Votes according to...also me

Spoiler: show

Day 1: Long Con --> Sig (2nd of 4, I think; sorry I won't be as thorough with numbers and orders as MM, I just...it's just... not possible to be "as MM" in any domain)
Day 2: seaside --> b24 --> Long Con (7th of 8)
Day 3: RDW --> Ricochet (1st of 6)
Day 4: Devin --> RDW and MM, final on Devin (3rd of 9, I think)
Day 5: Diiny --> Espers (3rd of 8)
Day 6: Black Rock --> MacBaddie (banter) --> Black Rock --> Diiny --> Black Rock --> Diiny again (6th of 6)
Day 7: Black Rock --> Seaside (4th of 8)
Day 8: Metalmarsh89 --> sig --> TheFloyd (5th of 5)
Day 9: sig --> RF (2nd of 4)

JJJ - Black MacCon Floyd (sorry no sanity left to do viceversa right now)

Spoiler: show

Interactions with LC
-- D1 when LC gets called by bea for his "lame" case and vote on her, JJJ votes for him and questions him on pointing the posts by bea that he finds suspicious and to do more than give a blank dismissal to her refutation
-- questioning LC's case on sig crafting his posts (unsure of context or references)
[-- also questions sig on thinking players are desperate to get him lynched]
-- content with LC's rebuttal to his questioning, "looking" to put his vote elsewhere
-- N1 analysis of LC's early bea aggression, calling it deliberately false
-- questions bea on her thoughts on LC's case and whether can be genuine in his craft AND bad in his alignment
-- rebuttal analysis to the above

-- D2 pressures LC to address his previous rebuttal analysis; calls LC suspicious alongside seaside and sig
-- rebuttal to sig in which he mentions suspecting LC and sig independent of one another
-- in reply to FZ., adds RDW and b24 to his previous suspect, to round it at 5
-- rebuttal to LC's rebuttal, continues trying to determine whether LC's story is genuine; appreciate, in principle, of LC's pressure-applying principle
-- suspicion on LC wanes a bit, after this, keeps postulating that LC needs to be questioned hard
-- questions Zebra why he thinks LC is "full of it"
-- votes LC in rebuttal to Zebra pointing out he switched without saying so

(everything that follows is post-lynch)
Night 2? (not sure, post titles are screwy)
-- argues here his LC vote evolution
-- gets "bad vibes" from Golden for protecting LC ("LC defenders might be teammates")

-- D3 demands from Zebra to search his history and point at where he finds him bussing LC
-- speaks of bea looking town as hell after LC's flip
-- vexed by Golden calling him an LC teammate, rebuttals to him
-- further rebuttal to Golden: LC case was 100% correct, asks of Golden to consider a meta reversal (him being right about LC, Golden being wrong, that being indicative of civvieness)
-- reads seaside well after LC flip
-- rebuttal to Golden about his LC suspicious waning: "had to re-convince himself" to end the day voting for him
-- rebuttal to sig saying he kept him and LC as open options
-- rebuttal to Choutas on being self-satisfied about the LC lynch matter, post-factum
-- suspicions on Sorsha and Epignosis ("LC defenders might be teammates") resonate with him - makes an exception with FZ, however; bea and seaside ("LC smeared are good") reads good ... later returns on the seaside issue, calling it worthy on both sides
-- heavy talks with Sorsha, in which he includes the statement "if I were LC's team mate I wouldn't have defended him"
-- fun post about something about Sorsha and him, despite still voting for Sorsha
-- in reply to Sorsha, infers that LC has a history of pulling gambits, considering his TS defenders
-- begins LC interaction reads: brian looks slightly better, reads bea as having been smeared by LC, reads BR decent town, no improvement on Bullzeye, Choutas decent, Devin bad, Diiny problematic, Wilgy super, Elohcin null, Epignosis solid (despite GTH bad), pings on espers, mixed on FZ, BTOD on Golden defending LC, Mac is town and everyone should follow him, mixed on Mac, negative on MM, motel is good, RF/reywas null, zebra is town, Rico wolf, minor negative on Roxy, nothing helpful on RDW, Russ is decent, seaside good look, positive on sig, positive on Sorsha, cautiously town on Straw, negative lean on Floyd, bad vibes on Llama

-- N3 reconsiders stance on Rico, despite having a good hunt precendent on this

-- D4 rebutall to Rico on tinfoiling his interaction with LC: reiterates how he dissected LC's claim, ruse, arguments
-- rebuttal to Fuzz on whether he's holding on to his LC analyses or not (processing new information)
-- in reply to Matt, didn't place important on LC saying D0 is irrelevant, but points to his point of view reflecting his own

-- N4 in reply to Golden doubts LC would have come up with an "exit" lynch plan

-- D5 doesn't get Wilgy's beef with him, based on liking his (JJJ's) LC vote
-- scumreads espers based on his statement that LC doubters shouldn't be trusted no more
-- offers to Rico his inspired reads on LC, bea and Sorsha as credentials for trusting him in lynching espers
-- does not care (underline by him) when Rico tin foils his LC interaction into gradual bussing, calls for team civ effort

-- N5? in reply to Matt, disconsides the LC having "exit lynch plan" theory, or at least the likelihood of that

-- D7 in reply to Matt, talks about LC replying to everything he cased him or not

-- D9 talks about b24 counterwagon and possible teammate maneuvers

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- Du0 votes for MacDougall, calling him one of his biggest influences or inspirations
-- D1 asks seaside to make a portrait of Mac as an SK
-- in reply to seaside, doubts that Mac's first Day activity is a deliberate low key one, finds validity in motel's suspicions, but doesn't find validity in Mac's posts that he might be SK
-- rebuttal to Mac's suss on him supertowning (cheerleading) as scum

-- D2 answers to a Mac suss on Llama
-- banter talk with Mac

-- D3 cases Golden based on a sound point made by Mac (about Golden encouraging the Golden-JJJ kerkuffle to solidify into wagons)
-- reads him good in D3 GTH
-- reads him townie in D3 LC interaction reads
-- tells Mac he ain't casing Rico based on TH lyrics, asks him to go take a look; rebuttal on bringing up or not the TH theme in Rico's case

-- D4 questions Devin on what he saw of value in LC's case against Mac; then what did he find of value in Mac's defense to make him doubt LC
-- not planning to lynch Mac, based on his reads; asks players to check his analysis and point counterargument; calls Mac lynch a potential "awful lynch"

-- N4??? in reply to Russ, says that he hasn't reviewed new Mac content, but that mainly he hasn't been bothered, finds Mac probably goofing around for reactions and entertainment
-- in reply to Epig, considers Mac's Sorsha policy lynch understandable and common on RYM
-- rebuttal to Epig on highlighting something in Mac's posts, with possible intent to lure readers away from other content
-- in reply to Epig, can't tell if LC's meta points at him OMGUS'ing civilians (regarding Mac)
-- doubtful of LC futher gambits, including possible LC-Mac theatre play; more stuff in reply to Epig, just check page 16 for full take on it
-- questions Mac when he claims that people are making huge reaches in their hunts
-- in reply to Wilgy's question on who he sees bad, should Mac flip, refrains from wanting to build team theories; humors him afterwards, though

-- D5 wants an yes or no input from Matt on whether he had seen Mac as SK before the N4 reveals
-- considers Mac's idea that a rogue would talk about rogues
-- open conversation with Mac about Epig being rogue. mixed stance
-- shares Mac's fear that N5 kills maximum would be, again, three
-- questions Eloh on why she's pinged by Mac's reactions or whether she finds merit in Mac theory
-- in reply to Epig, considers his read on Mac much like TSers read on LC, also sees general tendency in him (those who know him don't bother with the case, those who do no know him are most bothered)
-- picks up Mac's idea to look into south poll players, including BR

-- N5 picks on Rico "noticing" Mac's and JJJ's mutual town endorsement of each other

-- N5 or D6?? rebuttal to Rico on reading Mac town. loudly.
-- inquires Mac about how much his rogue gameplay is intentional in TS environment
-- cautionary inquiry of Mac whether his vouching for him will end up blowing in his face
-- rebuttal to MM on how much he balanced meta and analysis in his defense of Mac
-- asks Russ for a Mac read, regardless of what he (JJJ) brought up on him
-- pressures Mac to reply to Rico's case on him
-- rebuttal to MM on why he didn't place Mac on his town list, despite townreading him
-- pressures Mac to expand on his Epig is SK theory
-- well, it's D6 so rebutts galore. check pages 11-12 for full overview (...saying this as if anyone will actually give a f)
-- big counter-talk with Rico on his Mac case: finds some things plausible, others not at all
-- highlight to Mac his read on BR
-- more confident than ever that Mac is town; reiterates later how bad a lynch Mac would be, and how good a lynch BR would
-- creates a scenario in which the mafia finds Mac easily lynchable, maybe even drug victim
-- rebuttal to MM on how hard he townreads Mac, not worried about how it reflects on him
-- questions Rico why won't he acknowledge Mac having a good reason to snap at Epig
-- reply to Rico on what angles he finds worthy of pursuing in LC's lynch and why Mac doesn't fit in any, for him
-- questions Mac on why he voted Llama on D2 yet read him good in D3 GTH; doesn't approve of his rebuttal; asks Mac why he finds it unlikely LC and counterwagon were both mafia
-- calls Epig's wagon on Mac "shit"
-- clairvoyancy (or not) in why six players want Mac lynched
-- finally picks a bit of scumtell post in Mac
-- rejects Mac's idea that Epig intentionally missed an PM to hide as SK; keeps being unapproving
-- rebuttal to MM on distancing from Mac
-- shrugs off Choutas accusations of his tardiness in starting a counterwagon to help Mac (??)
-- some conflict with Choutas about voting Diiny properly to save Mac

-- D7 (102 results on page 9; 81 on page 8 :fml:) (everything from here on is post-lynch)
-- ahem so D7: well hey u foold me Macs
-- rebuttal to Epig's case on him
-- rebuttal to Rico on ever waffling or not on Mac
-- comments on Mac's GTHs not overlapping
-- begins Mac interaction reads: b24 B-, Black Rock D, Bullzeye D, Choutas C,
-- muses on possible Mac-Epig coordination
-- continues reads: Wilgy B, Elohcin B, llama/fingersplints D+, Matt A-, MM B+,

-- N7 barks a bit at sig and OMGUS's him for suggesting JJJ was saved D7, just like Mac D6

-- D8 assesses sig bad in relation to Mac and BR
-- rebuttal on townreading Mac so loud and constant

-- D9 reads Fuzz in interaction with every LC-Mac-BR trio: feels worse
-- researches into Mac ever bussing a D1 teammate

Interactions with Black Rock
-- what... the fuck
-- if this was bloody freaking banter in the open between teamies, Imma set someone's car on fire
-- N2 reads BR limited in content, but digging it; also digging her read of him being a lunatic
-- reads her good in D3 GTH
-- reads her with decent town tell in D3 LC interaction reads
-- in reply to BR, reiterates opinion on BR
-- D5 intends to read BR
-- N5 reads her, finds her top suspect
-- D6 votes her several times
-- calls her a good lynch, points at his ISO on her
-- GTH reads her bad, pushes for her lynch, votes her, returns with a vote on her
-- talks about trying to generate a BR lynch and that not working out - defends that against Strawhenge and Choutas
-- D7 awards her a D in Mac interactions checks
-- reads her bad in D7 GTH
-- N7 sigh relief at BR flipping mafia
-- comments on pursuing BR starting his D6 analysis of her, before her being in modkill zone

Interactions with Floyd
-- N1 in reply to HamburgerBoy, points to personal meta in which he's been teammates with lurkers and has never demanded of them to sub out
-- D2 questions seaside why he finds floyd town
-- in reply to Zebra, doesn't find Floyd's content more suspicious than b24, despite understanding why it would come off as suspicious; finds that there is nothing to assess "beyond a vote"
-- reads Floyd bad in D3 GTH
-- reads Floyd neutral in D3 LC interactions reads
-- D4 questions Floyd's vote for llama; questions Floyd's sanity after his flip to Eloh
-- questions Floyd's bemusement to him being suspected
-- picks on Floyd's remark about fearing MP's wrath for posting four times in a row
-- Floyd: "you missed MP's message"; JJJ: "show me"?? show me the message?? what... the fuck
-- ISO on Floyd. sees potential baddie
-- OT post on how he recruited Floyd on RYM
-- in reply to Matt, doubtful that Floyd slipped with the "rivals" statement; also discredits Floyd having read Straw as scum, because of not voting his way
-- doesn't understand Floyd's "sorry dude" vote for him
-- reads Floyd bad in D7 GTH
-- mentions to MM about finding Floyd's gross and calling him out on that
-- comments on Diiny possibly flipping on Floyd stance (?)
-- baddie Floyd asks JJJ what he has on BR
-- asks Epig to give input on Floyd lynch
-- not that thrilled about Floyd lynch because of lack of content to analyse properly
-- N7 (oops I fucking lost the day count) doesn't understand why Floyd voted for him for MM's case against seaside
-- D8 considers Floyd lynchworthy
-- has Floyd bottom red in rainbow list
-- doesn't like [whose?] approach that Floyd should be lynched for not being helpful
-- D8 rebuttal at Matt for blowing his mild suspicions of Floyd out or proportion
-- input on how BR read Floyd
-- endorses a lynch of either Marsh or Floyd, but would like thoughts on Marsh
-- later endorses a lynch of either sig or Floyd

everything from this point is (post-lynch)... page 5 has 154 mentions of floyd -_-
-- D9 begins Floyd interaction reads: b24 genuine, not feeling his lynch; bullzeye not feeling it; Choutas = naw; holds judgement on Diiny; reluctant on Wilgy; no on Eloh; could be convinced to vote MM; could be convinced to vote motel; would totally lynch Fuzz today; could be convinced to vote Russ; could be convinced to vote sig; would not lynch Straw;
-- comments on Fuzz picking on Floyd's possible thread-topic slip, yet delaying judgement on it for 2 phases
-- D10 points out that listening to Choutas on D7 would have helped with a Floyd lynch

Disclaimer: the baddies reappear a lot on page 1, because of JJJ doing re-assessments, but I won't go over those individually. they're reads, they're still at handy

============================

Stray observations (just so it be clear, these are reaction-like comments, whilst doing the ISO in real time; these are the equivalent of being startled/pinged; they're not full fledged charges...yet...):

Choutas D3 read as good... based on nothing between him and LC??? Hmmm

Never picked this up at that time, but after reading bea and seaside possible smear victims of LC, he then proceeded to disbelieve in me being just as much that and create a case and influence a serious wagon on LC's linking between me and bea meaning anything other than a smear, in my case. Hmmmm :eyeball:

If JJJ is bad, he gave us an "if Mac is mafia, so are" list in which 5 out of 6 are right now confirmed civs. His "if b24 is mafia" list has one confirmed baddie and only one confirmed civilian, with three players still alive.

Oh, look, N5 or D6 BR is suddenly suspicious. BR was soon after one missed voted away from modkill. Hmmmm.

I don't recall JJJ bringing this "b24 could have been mafia counterwagon" angle until D6. Hmmm.

Despite pushing a Black Rock lynch, he openly tells motel room to "keep his finger on the trigger" in case that wagon goes nowhere. :eyeball:

Ok, it's not like I don't get what he's saying right here, but somehow this "I'd lynch Diiny over Mac over Doc" correlated with townreading Mac still doesn't make too much sense to me. If you townread someone, you shouldn't put him in such a sentence. You should put him in "I don't think Mac should be lynched" sentence. Which JJJ did for a long time. Hmmmmm

Calling out Floyd, finding him bad, not being thrilled about the lynch due to lack of proper analysis and "sure, fuggit" jumping on seaside, all during D7, don't bode too well. Hmmm

Calls Floyd to talk on D8, Floyd just picks on his Pink Floyd vocaroo reference and doesn't give a damn about an actual response. I don't understand how could a baddie have made such indifferent gestures, on his lynch Day. Unreal. 10% of me feels like Floyd was just wassup'ing teamie JJJ.

=======================================================================

Vote record currently stands at two baddie lynches (LC, Floyd), one mislynch (seaside), three votes on ultimately confirmed civilians (Sig, Devin, espers) and two unconfirmed (Rico, Fuzz).

Timing and position of votes is considerably variable, but more towards the second half of every phase.

Entourage-wise (unconfirmed players only):

-- D1 in company of motel room
-- D2 did-he-or-didn't-he Man on LC lynch, together with Choutas, motel, Wilgy
-- D3 in company of Diiny on my wagon
-- D4 in comapny of Bullzeye, Rico, Wilgy on Devin
-- D5 in company of russ, motel, RF, MM, Diiny and Rico on espers
-- D6 in company of motel, choutas on Diiny counterwagon
-- D7 in company of motel, MM, Diiny, Russ on seaside
-- D8 in company of choutas, Diiny on floyd
-- D9 in company of MM and Diiny

To my surprise, greatest recurrence is not motel anymore (as discussed previously in the game), but Diiny. Choutas and Wilgy also follow a few times afterwards. Makes me real interested if any of Diiny, motel and JJJ are baddie(s?), blending in with the others in lynches that would automatically gain more traction this way. Again, I can't conceivably suspect Diiny because of that D6 counterwagon. Maybe motel? Still to check him. A Choutas-JJJ relationship makes me interested because of that D3 good read on Choutas based on thin air.

As for what I can conceivably suspect JJJ for, well let me tell you folks, I think this is one for the history books, regardless of how JJJ will flip (or be revealed). If he is civilian, some of his faux pas are just staggering; stuff like:

-- his friendly banter with Mac AND BR early on, which can now only look like a stinker
-- hounding me and almost getting me lynched D3 for a charge (linking made by LC) for which he exonerated earlier players like bea and seaside.
-- his Mac townreadum ad infinitum, with such a pallette of indifference (early on D4), sturdiness, convinction, counter-offensive, loudness, strong language (dat moment when he openly called the Epig's wagon on mac "shit" lolozaurs) etc.
-- his D6 "if I can't lynch BR, then I'd rather it be Diiny > Mac > Wilgy" with his townread Mac seriously part of that equation at all
-- his D7 seaside jump

I also may have to re-read (so basically re-re-read) his D2, because that LC vote comeback is, in itself, way flakier than I remembered it. The reasoning certainly must be retroactive (everything he called LC on), but the sequence leaves his vote return a bit dry, in context of having gone, in detail, from suspecting LC to waning based on LC's rebuttals. The words "back on LC, I suspect him [again] / [the most, after all] / [anything else]" are simply not there. Independent of all his previous processing (which, if he's bad... well, just read the next paragraphs), it could still be a last-minute grasp at a wagon. I'm currently feeling it around 25-75 on this [the latter angle, that is].

If he's bad...

But first, a bit of meta consideration. I've just had JJJ as my mafia teammate, back in Syndicate. I am not entirely sure if the following can be attributed to JJJ the player or his embodiment of SVS (which was nothing short of splendid), but the feeling I got most of the time is that a baddie JJJ can do things the "right way" (for the baddie cause, that is), if he has time to prepare them and to make sure everything looks good. With enough time to cook some interactions that would later look good, some bussings to considers, he would probably manage to do them. When I was technically in the shitter (a civilian lynch blowing my seemer cover up), he was till the very last minute with his finger an inch away from the buss button.

...now, if he's bad, everything he did is a work of art. Let the tin foiling commence:

-- The LC interaction would be doctored down to every right moment when to attack, every right thing to say, every read which to look inspired in retrospect.

-- What about Mac; why in his right mind ever risk such a dangerous vouching for a teamie? Well, my tin foil version of this would have to do with the shock and timing of D6 turning into a decisive Mac lynch day. At that point, any backtracking (god forbid switcherooing and bussing) would have been out of the question for someone like JJJ, if bad. So the solution? Push the pedal all the way down. The Day was far from settled, so hope wasn't lost until the last moment.

-- The BR switch is the strongest thing that makes me think of the meta I mentioned. One might say JJJ's case on bea pre-dates the moment when BR missed a second vote and entered modkill contention. But let's not forget that BR's D5 was a one-moment coming-to-vote I-don't-feel-in-the-mood-for-mafia-anymore moment. She never recovered from that mood. Correlate that with the following Days leading to her modkill and it stands that her teammates must have been en garde earlier than D6. JJJ's case can, in theory, stand as such. To his credit, the moment he changed his mind is based on an overall ISO, not something related just to mafia interactions. But it's still in dissonance with everything posted prior, which can read like cozy townreading of a teamie. I'm not 100% sold on JJJ never creating at least a couple of suss clouds on her, for safety, but I'm not 100% sold on his BR stance being the real deal either.

BUT RICO. What about his D6 push for BR? He definitely pushed for it, despite not achieving it. Weeellll, between a BR with probably no more desire to play and in looming danger of modkill and a fiery Mac in need to be rescue, whose save could influence the future of the game considerably, I'm not 100% sold that a BR sacrifice wouldn't have been plausible to attempt. Feed the civs a baddie from a different direction, make them sniff elsewhere the following Day.

-- the Floyd interactions is in a way the most null of the four for me, and here's why: a civvie JJJ would have kept in check and under suspicion a player like Floyd, given the way Floyd played; a baddie JJJ would have kept in check and under suspicion a player like Floyd, given the way Floyd player (and JJJ knowing it's a baddie play). JJJ's Floyd mix of huh?s, pings, suspicions are consistent and in constant crescendo

BUT RICO. Dat Floyd D8 deciding vote. (How dare you challenge that? You suck ass at deciding votes!!!) Yes, yes, I'm not going to be that much of a tin foil maniac...I'm going to be only a little bit: Floyd as sacrificial material; JJJ not minding getting some cred back. Boom!

So... in conclusion?

I ... wow.

I don't want this to sound too jackassy, but I'm genuinely terrified, as a civilian, for LYLO being reached with JJJ in it. If he is not mafia, I am almost certain the mafia will not touch him until then, for this exact value. Maybe the SK might, but I don't know exactly under what rationale (maybe only he'd sense JJJ being too much a danger for him?). If he's mafia, he has been through this before; he has won a Champions freaking final this way.

Do I have enough evidence to lean on JJJ being the mafioso mastermind? No. I can project a civvie JJJ would got into some major pickles with his game just as much as I can give in to the tin foil temptation. Often during this ISO my brain signal was "yeah I could lynch JJJ", but now upon final revision, the evidence is still down to that. Probably to 60-40 or 50-50. As I've said, I don't want to be a jackass and want to lynch JJJ for the sake of releasing any pressure. I don't see myself as that kind of a player, in general. But...given all this history, I personally find that the dillemma surrounding him is downright burdensome.

[Ricochet]

OT, I was planning to joke about MP not being top poster here, due to hosting but...



128 hosting posts?!

[Sloonei]

I have a lot of work to do.

[Marmot]

I'm on Day 6 now of Jay's posts.

At first I was going to do just vote counts.

Then I started keeping track of my thoughts on some things.

Then I started tracking his thoughts.

Then it became a full on ISO before I knew it.



I just hope it will prove helpful to other people. I should have it done by the deadline, seeing as that's still almost 9 hours away.

[Marmot]

MovingPictures07 had 488 posts in Death Note.

Also, I believe that (in most cases) every living player should at least have more posts than the hosts.

[Ricochet]

MovingPictures07 had 488 posts in Death Note.

Also, I believe that (in most cases) every living player should at least have more posts than the hosts.

I had four pages of PMs with MP in Death Note, that's how hyperactive it was.

One page of that was him asking me if I want to kill myself. Do I? Huh? Huh? Just let me know. Let me know and it'll be done.

[Choutas]

I didn't see MM wasn't available my bad.
So who are we lynching today?

[Ricochet]

imma take a 30-minute break first

make that 37

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Home early tonight.

Going to bed early tonight too, gonna miss the deadline.

Rico and MM: I appreciate you both for trudging through my post history. Whatever the product you come up with, and whatever the read you arrive at, I recognize the immensity of the task and I apologize for making it seem necessary.

Rico: in your analysis, I think you have done nicely to review the evidence against me (and I acknowledge that it exists in a significant quantity) with one eye on the potential baddie motives and another on the townie motives. I can understand why you'd get through all of that and still feel torn. I'm going to try to resonate with you now on a personal level, in a way that we two players in this game can share and understand better than our peers by virtue of common ground:

There is substantive evidence against Ricochet too. You might not like all of it, but it's there and I do think Matt F did a nice job of compiling it in a way that isn't beyond rationality. Do I suspect you a great deal?

No.

Because the evidence doesn't tell the whole story of Ricochet in this game, RYM Mafia #90/The Syndicate Talking Heads Mafia/Crossover special. I have absolutely given myself up to this game -- I belong to it, and to all of you. An incredible portion of my time has been lost to this very thread. Of all the players still with me, only one other person has come close to doing the same: you. That's no slight on the rest of the players, I think all of you have given a strong effort and I love that. But Rico has given an immense effort. If Rico is mafia, then this is the strongest effort I've ever seen in a mafia player.

And I have 1,009 posts. My ISO is a textbook.

I'm going to be frank here: none of you have ever seen a bad guy play like I have played this game. You just haven't. When this game is over, you still haven't. I haven't either.

One day I will be mafia, and people are going to associate this game with my meta. And I am going to fall short of it. Because it's beyond me.

[Marmot]

I didn't see MM wasn't available my bad.
So who are we lynching today?

Who do you want to lynch today?

Your last rainbow list has me at the top. Did you change your mind?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do think there is one sector of my post history which evidences strongly my town allegiance.

It isn't my early aggression against Long Con. It isn't my fervent WIFOMy defenses of Mac. It isn't my attempt to lynch Black Rock on Day 6 instead of Mac. It isn't my lynch-deciding vote to eliminate Floyd. All of those moves are mafia-compatible. What have I done that is not?

Day 7.

I was dead in the water on Day 7. At one point the tally read 5 votes for me and I believe no more than 1 for anyone else. I thought this game was over for me. How I treat that scenario? With total acceptance. I didn't openly resist my lynch. I didn't openly pursue a lynch of someone else. A large part of me even though it would be in town's best interests to be rid of me then, because I pose a danger to us all late in the game when the tin foiling will be at its most frequent.

I believed I was going to be lynched, and I decided to stow my self-defense efforts in favor of total focus on scum hunting. I wanted to leave the townies who'd outlive me with ample material that could benefit their cause. I reassessed everyone in light of the Mac scum flip and their voting records. I made every effort to leave behind a legacy -- not only because it was the best thing for town, but also because I owed it to town in light of my gaffes with the way I'd read Mac.

You might not believe me at face value, but that Day is a very different story if I'm mafia. Period.

[Choutas]

I didn't see MM wasn't available my bad.
So who are we lynching today?

Who do you want to lynch today?

Your last rainbow list has me at the top. Did you change your mind?

Bullz.
I think you're town or the rogue. I wouldn't lynch you no, i don't want you dead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've been thinking something about recent Bullzeye content: he's been responsive, but not productive. By that I mean he has made the effort necessary to address points about him and in some cases about general discussion -- but it's been a while since he has produced something truly original in this game.

I counted his posts since the start of Day 7 and categorized them.

Responsive posts: 10 (5 self-defensive)

Original content: 3 (3 low content)
--- When I say "low content", I mean he provided a pseudo-original thought in the form of a sentence or two.

Neutral posts about his own circumstance external to the game: 5

It's possible I miscounted or categorized a post in a way that would be controversial. Anyone can just glance at his ISO and decide for themselves though. On Day 6 he was more involved, but even then it was mostly a matter of throwing shade a bcornett24 while I was giving reasons that Brian might have meaningful evidence in his favor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I dint recall you ever explicitly wanting to reset your reads or going for a blank slate thing. Of course you go over shit and ISO like mad but my emphasis is on the reset. By all means show me you have done it before as town and I'll stop worrying.

When you ask JJJ for a specific example of something, he delivers.

RYM #71: I was alive the night prior to LyLo after a mislynch. I decided it was no longer viable to trust my prior reads and reset my trust level of everyone left to 0. I then proceeded to review everything in full detail to determine how good a candidate each player was to be the last mafioso and the rogue. Does that look familiar?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In reviewing Bullzeye's content more thoroughly I am finding that he is failing the eye test and the evidence test. His interactions with Mac were lacking in energy despite seeming to warrant it. He arrived too late to make a difference re: LC. There's nothing whatsoever about Black Rock in his posts. I gave him a lot of credit before for a solid Day 7 vote (Floyd over me), but looking back that actually came before the Seaside wagon got rolling when I still had a solid lead in the tally over Floyd (I think 6/7 to 4). I am sure the mafia team wasn't expecting the CFD there.

BULLZEYE

[Ricochet]

Seaside third wagon was a CFD? Doesn't a CFD mean to throw your votes around and provoke chaos?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Seaside third wagon was a CFD? Doesn't a CFD mean to throw your votes around and provoke chaos?

In my experience, it refers to a last-minute change from one bangwagon to another -- a large number of people moves to one target. It has town and mafia applications.

For townies, the idea is to generate a pressure-cooker scenario at EOD in which mafia members have to react in real-time to an unexpected exodus from a bandwagon they may have been counting on.

For mafia, the idea is to make people look stupid should the player lynched flip town.

[Bullzeye]

To be honest I've completely given up on this game. I'm several days behind and have no chance of catching up since the pace has been so stupidly fast. Bandwagon me if you must but you're wrong to do so and I will be voting to save myself if I can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be honest I've completely given up on this game. I'm several days behind and have no chance of catching up since the pace has been so stupidly fast. Bandwagon me if you must but you're wrong to do so and I will be voting to save myself if I can.

This frankly reads to me like a concession. I feel better about my vote than I did before you said this.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Strawhenge, I'd like for you to check out the role named Crosseyed and Painless and tell me what thoughts it inspires.

[Bullzeye]

To be honest I've completely given up on this game. I'm several days behind and have no chance of catching up since the pace has been so stupidly fast. Bandwagon me if you must but you're wrong to do so and I will be voting to save myself if I can.

This frankly reads to me like a concession. I feel better about my vote than I did before you said this.

Because a civ would never give up? I'm not John Cena.

I've said all I can in my own defence and can't offer anything else. I don't see much point in trying because I'm several thousand posts behind where I should be and barely know what's happening. What would you do in my situation? Why is giving up such a bad thing to do?

[Ricochet]

To be honest I've completely given up on this game. I'm several days behind and have no chance of catching up since the pace has been so stupidly fast. Bandwagon me if you must but you're wrong to do so and I will be voting to save myself if I can.

This frankly reads to me like a concession. I feel better about my vote than I did before you said this.

What makes it sound like a baddie concession as opposted to a civvie concession?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What would you do in my situation?

I faced this scenario on Day 7. I didn't throw in the towel. I made an effort to give the townies behind me substantial content to work with.

Why is giving up such a bad thing to do?

I absolutely do not care how far behind you are. That doesn't mean you can't be useful now. Even if you read exactly none of whatever posts you've missed, your presence still has value if you're town. I think a town mindset recognizes that, barring an established meta for quitting, and tries to do something with it.

You're here now after all, talking to me. You're aware of this thread. You noticed me attacking you again, as you've noticed others attacking you since Day 7. At no point have you made any effort to truly involve yourself in a meaningful way. You've only sought to prolong your existence with defensive posts and are doing the same now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be honest I've completely given up on this game. I'm several days behind and have no chance of catching up since the pace has been so stupidly fast. Bandwagon me if you must but you're wrong to do so and I will be voting to save myself if I can.

This frankly reads to me like a concession. I feel better about my vote than I did before you said this.

What makes it sound like a baddie concession as opposted to a civvie concession?

It is lazy. When townies quit, they tend to do so in a fit of frustration and exasperation. They don't just say "I don't care about this game, whatever".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DrWilgy:

I'd really like to hear what you think about this with regard to RadicalFuzz. You know him better than anyone else, so please share your perspective and be thorough about it.

Spoiler: show

There is one key moment where he fails the eye test though, at least for me, and it continues to be a massive hangup in my ability to read him as a townie:

I'd like to hear what everyone thinks of Fuzz in light of a specific point. When asked why he didn't pursue Floyd after his "thread text" slip (which occurred in a conversation between Floyd and Fuzz), these were Fuzz's answers:

Diiny I didn't push him because I didn't want to lynch him in his first game for that. It was emotion-driven ignorance. I thought he might become engaged in his defense, but that was not the case. I don't regret not pushing him, I'd do it again every time.

Diiny you are correct. I thought I made that abundantly clear at the time. I posted that I found it objectively scummy but wasn't going to personally pursue it. I attempted to be clear that I was aware my decision was an illogical one.

It's not being nice, it's wanting to give him a chance to fail. My first game I was Mafia and made a comeback for the win. I have a large ego and enjoy it when other people fail things I succeeded at. It falls under "illogical" all the same. I'm curious though, are you going to vote me for it?

He has made a claim that must either be taken or left at face value. I'm going to leave my own perspective on the matter at the door for now. I just want to hear what the rest of you think when you read these responses.

It isn't immediately alarming to me that Fuzz did not mention Floyd's scumslip as a slip until two day phases after the fact. I didn't mention it as a scumslip when it happened either and I was active in the thread. The problem here is his explanation for why he didn't mention it.

If he'd said: "Well, J3, I honestly didn't register it as a scumslip until later. It didn't really occur to me in the moment."

I might be okay with that. Instead, he said that he knew it was a bad-looking potential slip, and that he declined to mention it as a nice gesture to Floyd the new player.

I don't know how I am supposed to believe that at face value. That sounds like a lie. And a lie in this scenario is not a good look. The only other moment in this game that made me feel this way was when Black Rock claimed she was only throwing shade at Roxy to "get her in the thread". This just a dubious way of explaining away a point of suspicion that I don't think fits inside a townie mindset. How could it? Heck, if it is to be believed, then I would sooner attribute the maneuver to the serial killer than to a townie.

If I can't reconcile this problem, I can't be anything but suspicious of RadicalFuzz. Even for all of the town-inclined gut reads I've had on his exploratory/investigative posts, this problem is too significant for that to change my perspective.

[Ricochet]

I will skip MetalMarsh because he is the SK anyway... err I mean because he is off the poll today anyway!

motel room

Start up position in relation to LC

-	LC with others	others on LC
motel room	Mixed	Negative

Votes according to Marsh

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - sig (1st of 4) (3rd of 31)
Day 2 - Long Con ---> Choutas ---> Long Con (5th of 8) (22nd of 29)
Day 3 - Epignosis (1st of 1) (1st of 26)
Day 4 - Sorsha (5th of 9) (10th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (2nd of 8) (11th of 23)
Day 6 - Choutas ---> Diiny ---> Black Rock ---> Diiny (4th of 6) (17th of 19)
Day 7 - seaside (2nd of 8) (11th of 18)
Day 8 - Russtifinko (1st of 3) (4th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (2nd of 5) (5th of 16)

Motel - Black MacCon - Motel

Spoiler: show

Interactions with LC
-- finds LC's flip from bea to sig "pressured and gross", backpedalling
-- comments to FZ on finding LC suss, on his D1 mention of him, on Choutas voting for him...
-- suss's LC based on a comment to lynch seaside, votes him
-- doesn't find the lynch status bad, compared to Epig calling it ""cliquish"
-- defends against Sorsha calling him flip-flopping between LC and Choutas (calls them both suspicious)
-- votes back LC, not feeling b24 wagon, considering Llama
-- comments on tight EoD
-- (post-lynch) questions Choutas voting LC
-- (post-lynch) calls LC defenders dodgiest
-- (post-lynch) creates scenarios in which bea might be teammate or not
-- (post-lynch) questions Matt's read of Choutas being civvie
-- (post-lynch) D6 finds theory on LC setting up a planned bussing far-fetched
-- (post-lynch) rebuttal to Rico on switching between LC and Choutas
-- (post-lynch) rebuttals to Matt

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- votes MacBaddie for CEO
-- doesn't get seaside's suspicion of MacBaddie, questions him what Mac did on D0
-- in reply to Llama, reads Mac genuine
-- questions his switch from Sorsha D4, calls it bandwagon; finds his tactics further muddy
-- D5 finds Mac towny and his theory about Epi most likely
-- D6 still finds Mac town, despite buss theory
-- D6 discusses voting tactics with Mac: joining him on Epig lynch
-- doesn't get why JJJ has Mac higher than Wilgy on his to-be-lynched options
-- in reply to Choutas, would vote to save Mac
-- fends off Rico's thought that him defending Mac makes him look bad
-- doesn't see why he should vote Wilgy, at Mac's request
-- reiterates seeing townmac
-- confused about Strawhenge not voting in any way for Mac or Diiny
-- (post-lynch) rebuttals to Matt on pressuring Strawhenge

Interactions with Black Rock
-- D6 doesn't get why BR is lynch contender
-- suddenly considers BR wagon
-- "could do a black rock vote" and then does
-- reads her bad in D7 GTH

LC interactions with motel
-- accidentally includes motel in his suss'ing of players who talked about Flowers
-- fends off motel's suspicion at his comment on lynching seaside

MacBaddie interactions with motel
-- D2 questions why motel switched to Choutas
-- reads him good in D3 GTH
-- banter vote and reaction to him about switching D4 votes
-- makes an analysis of D5 devin voters, but doesn't bring up motel
-- D6 calls for reads on metal, for being remarkably subdued
-- puts motel room in his final D6 scumlist
-- asks motel to vote Wilgy instead of Diiny
-- appreciates motel's effort to save him, albeit finding them useless, once Russ added a 7th vote

Black Rock interactions with motel
-- only interested in a correction in my reads of him or Mac
-- inquired by him about Choutas, never gives a serious answer

Votes
D1 votes sig for his verbosity and possible slipping
D2 votes LC for suspicions, switches to Choutas for him to explain his LC vote, votes back LC
D3 votes Epig as possible LC teammate defender, keeps it there
D4 votes Sorsha for placeholding, never returns with more reasons
D5 votes espers, only relates to seaside's trio pick from D4
D6 votes on Diiny counterwagon
D7 pursues Russ for being the least brought up by Mac (?); susses seaside and Choutas, votes seaside

Read
So I imagine that I'd eventually have to churn between the LC bussers, unless the remaining mafia is really comprised of nothing but them (which sounds unlikely or just damn foolish); previously, I felt a few details in motel's ISO (such as timing and context of D2 vote) placed him slightly better than the others, but this last revision doesn't make him look good overall. Suspects LC's flip-flop D1, but votes for the same player as LC, partly suspecting sig for the same issues. I actually like him sussing Choutas on his D2 vote - and in fact I am becoming very interested in how a motel - choutas relation would read, upon one of these player's flip - but his own switches can still read like LC early placement and detachment on a left field candidate whilst the wagon was at a halt; I'll keep his comeback on LC still under debate: it can be, like he said, a good read on the LC wagon waning and wanting to stress his preference in that direction; it can be safe, prompt bussing, under a tin foil version. Mac townreading reads as perpetual as JJJ's; his counterwagon moves aren't too great, of course. On the other hand, Mac reads overall quite distant from ever interacting much with motel, up until, what do you know, motel's suddenly suss and scum on D6. Black Rock switcheroo from "what why suss BR" to "yeah let's BR" is just bananas. For some of his other votes I can't find proper reasoning and they look dreadful, given timing and complacency to never elaborate on them. Lynch candidate.

Something extra. Motel through the bussing LC lens

Spoiler: show

Also quick to tell that LC's case on bea comes off as too strong, but this is in reply to llama's questionnaire on whether bea reacted in a genuine way to LC's vote and case on her.
Starts picking on several things sig said afterwards. Quite insistent on it.
Invites, however, at one point sig to join him on a LC wagon. Ironically, neither ever do.
Calls out LC's flip on sig as "pressured and gross, backpedalling".
DAY ENDS. His vote remains on sig from early banter with him. Not only did he reacted strongly to LC's case and counter-case, along the way, but also invited to a LC wagon, yet nothing from this made him put the stamp on LC.
Incresingly suspicious of every move by LC. Votes him.
Switches to Choutas (for his unexplained vote on LC?). Also considers JJJ lynch.
Goes back to LC, picking him over b24.
DAY ENDS.

Well if LC clearly instructed his teammates to take a stance against him, to the point of bussing when things get totally serious, it's simply unnerving. Don't know what to make of MR. His LC sussing looks so on point, but his D1 flipping is, to put it in his words, "gross" and the vote switches during D2 feel a bit as if he was testing the waters for alternatives or for distancing, but then returned to LC, almost as if shit got serious and he was aware he previously sussed LC enough not to do a stupid move and get out of orbit.

Onwards
> First thought of D3 is that people who defended LC's meta are most suspicious: Sorsha and Epi. Goes with Epi.
> Still wants to hear from Choutas' LC vote.
> Sig is suddenly good.
> JJJ lynch being considered no more.
> Also brings an LC-bea link theory.
DAY ENDS. His vote stayed on Epi all along.
> D4 votes Sorsha for placeholder, oh oh!
> Talks other topics, including Mac potentially bandwagoning on Sorsha.
DAY ENDS. His vote remained on Sorsha.

It's 5am and I don't want to die from exhaustion, so I'll stop here and resume later. I've left enough for now, anyway. I should in theory do JJJ as well and might just do him in full, but you have my crazy gut read on him. I'll grant him this though, compared to what I've revisited above on the other "LC critics", he has been rather more inquisitive and going through all the questioning/analysing stages by comparison. Overall, it'd be a sheer craftsman work, unlike anything I've seen, if he truly bussed LC. Gonna mull on this further.

I was searching for my Floyd interaction read on him, but forgot I never managed to posted it in time. Luckily, I had it saved on an rtf file.

Motel - Floyd - Motel

Spoiler: show

Interactions with Floyd
-- D2 excuses Floyd as overwhelmed debutant
-- D6 only curious if Floyd got PMs to discuss RL; further banter/bait about Floyd saying he didn't receive PM's on that topic
-- asks Floyd to give thoughts on who should be lynched between Mac and Diiny
-- acknowledges baiting Floyd with the PM topic, but wary of having lynched only townies before with this tactic
-- D7 asks Matt why he's so certain about Floyd
-- defends against Matt's case on him; re never pursuing his bait on Floy further and other posts
-- reads Floyd good in D7 GTH
-- not confident about a Floyd lynch; continues to say he feels Floyd will flip town

Read
This being the same motel who townread/counterwagoned another confirmed mafia in MacBaddie, it makes me quite interested to find out if he didn't keep the same stance on Floyd as well, as a teamie. Him baiting Floyd, acknowledging Floyd's answer wasn't good, acknowledging that he's wary he'd catch a town with this tactic (like many times in the past), yet then reading Floyd town feels a bit like a jump in ideas. "I'm doubting myself that my bait always brings good results" doesn't really sound the same as "I'm townreading this player because of my doubts that my bait always brings good results"

Vote record stands at one confirmed baddie (LC), three mislynches (Sorsha, seaside, sig), one vote on an ultimately confirmed civilian (sig) and three unconfirmed (Epignosis, Diiny, Russ). Interesting ratios, compared to others, I'll say.

Timing and position wise, very variable. Late return on LC, first shooter on Epig D3 (can it be that he wanted to avoid any of the following hot topics: Golden vs JJJ, Sorsha, Rico, Rico vs Golden vs Sorsha?). Not too early, not too late on Sorsha and espers. Late (and twisty, as interactions with JJJ show) on Diiny counterwagon. Rather eager to hop on the seaside wagon soon. Early voter again on Russ. Early-ish on sig.

Entourage-wise, he's in a lot of entourage. A freaking lot. Even on that Epig vote on D3 that looks wild (yeah, I remember his sussing Epig for defending LC, just saying how it looks in the frame of the whole D3 events) he has Russ besides him. I don't think recurrent common voters would create any genuine pings here, tbh.

So here's the deal, I'm currently at 1-1 in my "LC bussers" campaign and whilst catching Mac was sweet, sig hurt like hell and made my confidence in the angle drop a fair bit of amount. If I'm to insist on this path and one or two more candidates (motel, JJJ, Choutas even) would result in mislynch, it would basically mean driving the game into lylo. What if the rest of the teamies are actually more in the neutral camp of interaction; after all Mac, for all the antagonism, didn't vote to send LC to his. Black Rock and Floyd hardly reacted to much of anything about him. Then again, if we are to abandon the LC buss zone completely, what remains of the many LC voters remaining? Are they all civ? Did the rest of the mafia really go on completely different paths that Day?

Motel's currently appearing to have been part of a lot of mislynches, a lot of wagons that are still enigmatic and one baddie lynch. Curiously, the only tiny thing that I'm leaning genuine is exactly something motel said about his action to come back on LC on D2: seeing the other wagons (b24 and llama) take over LC and deciding he doens't like those and that he is go back to his. It puts me in doubt that a mafioso would punish his teammate when hope is on the horizon. But it's only a minor doubt.

Then again, how to interpret that regarding Mac's counterwagon D6? If he's really civvie, it means he got dragged up in that wagon by other players (erm which leaves Choutas and JJJ). And he flippy-floppied a lot on that wagon.

So first read of him under my "LC busser" angle made me feel wary of him - say, weakest among Mac and sig. Full interaction reads only made me feel worse. Gut right now tells me to pursue the prospect of voting for his lynch - despite the caution thought in the back in the head about how the LC bussing record stands right now.

What do others think of motel, at this point in this game? Or of what I'm reading on him?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no problem with you lynching me I am cool with that. Really. It's just hilarious everyone bothered to case me on Day 10(some did the previous day, it isn't directed to everyone). I wanted out of the game anyway. The only sad thing about my lynch is that town will get fucked and most likely lose the game.

By all means guys lynch me. Call my reads laughable, bully me and spit on me and lynch me like Jesus.

Then Choutas said, "MP, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

F*** you're doing it too Choutas. Buck up and play the game. I know it's lasted an eon but I don't give a crap. IrritatedJimmyJay.

[Ricochet]

Which one of the laze-ers would you be leaning on, then?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Which one of the laze-ers would you be leaning on, then?

The one who has generated nearly no original content in three game cycles. I still think Bullzeye is more suspicious than Choutas.

[Choutas]

I have no problem with you lynching me I am cool with that. Really. It's just hilarious everyone bothered to case me on Day 10(some did the previous day, it isn't directed to everyone). I wanted out of the game anyway. The only sad thing about my lynch is that town will get fucked and most likely lose the game.

By all means guys lynch me. Call my reads laughable, bully me and spit on me and lynch me like Jesus.

Then Choutas said, "MP, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

F*** you're doing it too Choutas. Buck up and play the game. I know it's lasted an eon but I don't give a crap. IrritatedJimmyJay.

I don't give a crap either. This game has drained my life force. If I survive this day phase I'll seriously consider modkilling myself to not be asked to contribute again.

[Marmot]

I have no problem with you lynching me I am cool with that. Really. It's just hilarious everyone bothered to case me on Day 10(some did the previous day, it isn't directed to everyone). I wanted out of the game anyway. The only sad thing about my lynch is that town will get fucked and most likely lose the game.

By all means guys lynch me. Call my reads laughable, bully me and spit on me and lynch me like Jesus.

Then Choutas said, "MP, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

F*** you're doing it too Choutas. Buck up and play the game. I know it's lasted an eon but I don't give a crap. IrritatedJimmyJay.

You call Bullzeye's situation a concession, but you cheer Choutas on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You call Bullzeye's situation a concession, but you cheer Choutas on.

That's right. There are significant contextual differences that are readily apparent to anyone who merely clicks on their ISOs.

[Bullzeye]

Which one of the laze-ers would you be leaning on, then?

The one who has generated nearly no original content in three game cycles. I still think Bullzeye is more suspicious than Choutas.

Just to point out - I've had no time to play, no time to get caught up, and no time to generate content. It has no bearing on my role. I've barely been able to play at all for almost a fortnight. So call me lazy if you like, but if producing original content is the only way to get people off my back then you may as well get MP to start the lynch post now because it's not going to happen. It's okay for you, you've been on top of things the whole game making 1000s of posts all the time. I have other priorities.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Which one of the laze-ers would you be leaning on, then?

The one who has generated nearly no original content in three game cycles. I still think Bullzeye is more suspicious than Choutas.

Just to point out - I've had no time to play, no time to get caught up, and no time to generate content.

You've had time to answer to criticism every time it has been directed at you, sometimes thoroughly.

[Bullzeye]

Which one of the laze-ers would you be leaning on, then?

The one who has generated nearly no original content in three game cycles. I still think Bullzeye is more suspicious than Choutas.

Just to point out - I've had no time to play, no time to get caught up, and no time to generate content.

You've had time to answer to criticism every time it has been directed at you, sometimes thoroughly.

Like twice. Maybe three times. Answering posts that directly relate to me and facts I know because I'm me is much easier than reading through hundreds of posts and forming in-depth views based on careful analysis. I'm not even trying to defend myself from being lynched here, I'm just defending against the idea that my having been quiet and uninvolved is in any way related to my alignment.

[Ricochet]

RadicalFuzz

Start up position in relation to LC: none

Votes according to Marsh

RADICALFUZZ

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 2 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 3 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 4 - JaggedJimmyJay (2nd of 2) (11th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (4th of 8) (14th of 23)
Day 6 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (8th of 19)
Day 7 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (4th of 18)
Day 8 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (8th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (3rd of 5) (13th of 16)

Fuzz - Black MacCon - Fuzz

Spoiler: show

Interactions with LC
-- (post-lynch) suspects JJJ of Jesus toast analysis post-LC-lynch, without including new info

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- D4 asks Mac to vote JJJ with him
-- suss's Mac N4 on offer to step up the game (context?)
-- D5 disbelieves parts of Matt's theory on Mac
-- second time around, finds Matt's explanation logical
-- disapproves of Mac's behaviour
-- further conversation with JJJ including his reads on Mac
-- says that he sees what Mac is "putting down", without deciding what he thinks about it
-- D6 considers Mac lynch for his Sorhsa lynching policy
-- questions sig's "mislynch trend" comment on Mac
-- calls Wilgy scummier than Mac

Interactions with Black Rock
-- reads her bad in D7 GTH

LC interactions with RadicalFuzz
Unavailable due to death.

MacBaddie interactions with RadicalFuzz
-- banter on N4 with RF sussing him; repeatedly, in fact
-- D6 doesn't follow on something RF said
-- starts sussing RF for asking weird questions and not doing actual reads
-- cheers on RF sussing Wilgy
-- calls RF scum; retracts afterwards, calls him town

Black Rock interactions with RadicalFuzz
-- meany emoji at something RF said about dealing with low posters

Votes
D4 votes JJJ for finding his reads jesus-toasty
D5 votes espers...??
D6 votes Wilgy, case
D7 votes Wilgy again

Read
Awfully breve. A few recurrent pings as with others (sussing Mac but never considering to vote him; a vote for espers for which I can't find the reasoning; and my favorite is that GTH baddie read on BR a Day before her modkilling; it's like everyone had psychic powers or something about her, without any previous mention), but not much else. MacBaddie pretty much told him to take a hike with his sussing most of the times and attempted a bit of smear, which he then corrected. Strictly from the interactions POV, this is as close to a neutral read as it can get. I don't know why he recurrently asks to be read, kept in check or even found bad (unless I imagined this...?!), but I actually have him in mind as someone.

I wrote down the stats on Fuzz - Floyd - Fuzz

Spoiler: show

u]Interactions with Floyd[/u]
-- D4 asks Floyd how up to date with the thread he is
-- D6 comments on most of his posts being scumslips, but won't lynch him because of finding him equally overwhelmed and in need of a chance (acknowledges this being "illogical" and "unpopular")
-- rebuttal on not making Floyd get involved, saying he doesn't have questions from which to learn anything
-- reiterates stance
-- reads him bad in D7 GTH
-- would rather lynch JJJ over Floyd D7

But only had written down a thought, by EoD on D9.

"The one excerpt I'm real confused about is

The logical conclusion if he looks objectively bad is that he is most likely bad. I will not be voting for him for illogical reasons.

If him being bad because he looks objectively bad is the logical conclusion, why did he say he won't vote Floyd for illogical conclusions? Aren't the logics ones right there, a sentence earlier?"

Vote record currently stands at one mislynch (sig), one drumming (Wilgy) and one unconfirmed (JJJ). Timing and position wise, most of his votes are midway, except a very early on on D7. T'was in fact the day he did say he prefers JJJ over Floyd...yet voted Wilgy.

Yet again I must ask if others find most of these votes drifting with non-nefarious purpose, drifting with nefarious purpose or just...drifting?

Black MacCon interactions made me feel neutral about him and Floyd interaction pointed to some undoubtedly bad stuff, but for instance not worse that motel's. I may genuinely have to go back and read JJJ's ISO or other thoughts on him, to filter through a different viewpoint than mine.

Plus, I still don't understand a bit of what happened yesterday in a few players' stances towards him. For instance, did Wilgy call for his save late on D9, or am I hallucinating in recalling such a thing?

[Choutas]

I have no problem with you lynching me I am cool with that. Really. It's just hilarious everyone bothered to case me on Day 10(some did the previous day, it isn't directed to everyone). I wanted out of the game anyway. The only sad thing about my lynch is that town will get fucked and most likely lose the game.

By all means guys lynch me. Call my reads laughable, bully me and spit on me and lynch me like Jesus.

Then Choutas said, "MP, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

F*** you're doing it too Choutas. Buck up and play the game. I know it's lasted an eon but I don't give a crap. IrritatedJimmyJay.

You call Bullzeye's situation a concession, but you cheer Choutas on.

He only thinks I look better than Bullz that's all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Like twice. Maybe three times. Answering posts that directly relate to me and facts I know because I'm me is much easier than reading through hundreds of posts and forming in-depth views based on careful analysis. I'm not even trying to defend myself from being lynched here, I'm just defending against the idea that my having been quiet and uninvolved is in any way related to my alignment.

The idea here isn't that quiet Bullzeye = bad Bullzeye. It's that maintaining an interest in responding to accusations and very little else for days and days is rather fundamental scumtell in Mafia. You fit the mold. Here's the problem: you're insisting that affecting this game in any other way is impossible without "forming in-depth views based on careful analysis". That is not the only option a townie has at his disposal. Most townies never even bother to perform "careful analysis". You've done close to nothing.

Various others were never caught up full with this game and still tried to provide something meaningful. bcornett is an example who comes to mind -- constantly behind the pace of the game, but when he was around he'd put something of value in the thread.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He only thinks I look better than Bullz that's all.

A lot of that is based upon your conduct during the seaside lynch. Maybe I should reconsider that perspective: you vehemently opposed the lynch of a townie when a likely alternative was a lynch of a mafioso. Maybe you knew too much.

[Marmot]

Here's a compilation of everyone's votes throughout the game (aside from myself and Jay). Links are included for each vote to the post in which that player voted, except where the player did not post in the thread for their vote (which was only trackable via the final polls).

Also, the primary number next to each final vote shows that player's location on the wagon they voted that day. The second number shows their overall vote placement among all active players who voted that day. These numbers only correspond to the final votes, as there's no way in hell I am going to track the location of each vote separately.




BULLZEYE

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - No Vote (not replaced in for sanmateo yet)
Day 2 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1) (13th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Russtifinko (3rd of 4) (13th of 26)
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient(4th of 9) (14th of 24)
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient (4th of 6) (17th of 23)
Day 6 - bcornett (1st of 1) (11th of 19)
Day 7 - TheFloyd73 (4th of 4) (7th of 18)
Day 8 - Russtifinko (2nd of 3) (12th of 17)
Day 9 - Russtifinko (1st of 1) (10th of 16)

CHOUTAS

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - rundontwalk ---> MacDougall ---> DrWilgy (1st of 1) (10th of 31)
Day 2 - Devin the Omniscient ---> Long Con (1st of 8) (6th of 29)
Day 3 - Ricochet ---> Sorsha (3rd of 4) (8th of 26)
Day 4 - Sorsha (1st of 10) (1st of 24)
Day 5 - Devin the Omniscient (2nd of 6) (7th of 23)
Day 6 - sig ---> Diiny (5th of 6) (18th of 19)
Day 7 - TheFloyd73 (1st of 4) (2nd of 18)
Day 8 - TheFloyd73 (1st of 5) (6th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (1st of 5) (1st of 16)

DIINY

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - bcornett24 ---> birdwithteeth (6th of 7) (21st of 31)
Day 2 - seaside ---> thellama73 (2nd of 3) (20th of 29)
Day 3 - Ricochet (3rd of 6) (18th of 26)
Day 4 - Golden (1st of 1) (23rd of 24)
Day 5 - JaggedJimmyJay ---> Devin the Omniscient ---> espers (6th of 8) (21st of 23)
Day 6 - No Vote
Day 7 - JaggedJimmyJay ---> seaside (7th of 8) (17th of 18)
Day 8 - TheFloyd73 (2nd of 5) (7th of 17)
Day 9 - sig ---> RadicalFuzz (4th of 4) (15th of 16)

DRWILGY

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - birdwithteeth (1st of 7) (5th of 31)
Day 2 - Long Con (4th of 8) (11th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Golden (4th of 7) (21st of 26)
Day 4 - bcornett24 ---> Devin the Omniscient (8th of 9) (22nd of 24)
Day 5 - bcornett24 (1st of 1) (1st of 23)
Day 6 - MacDougall (1st of 7) (1st of 19)
Day 7 - bcornett24 (1st of 1) (12th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (4th of 4) (16th of 17)
Day 9 - Choutas ---> sig (4th of 5) (14th of 16)

MOTEL ROOM

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - sig (1st of 4) (3rd of 31)
Day 2 - Long Con ---> Choutas ---> Long Con (5th of 8) (22nd of 29)
Day 3 - Epignosis (1st of 1) (1st of 26)
Day 4 - Sorsha (5th of 9) (10th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (2nd of 8) (11th of 23)
Day 6 - Choutas ---> Diiny ---> Black Rock ---> Diiny (4th of 6) (17th of 19)
Day 7 - seaside (2nd of 8) (11th of 18)
Day 8 - Russtifinko (1st of 3) (4th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (2nd of 5) (5th of 16)

RADICALFUZZ

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 2 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 3 - No Vote (not replaced in for reywaS yet)
Day 4 - JaggedJimmyJay (2nd of 2) (11th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (4th of 8) (14th of 23)
Day 6 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (8th of 19)
Day 7 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (4th of 18)
Day 8 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (8th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (3rd of 5) (13th of 16)

RICOCHET

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - bea (1st of 1) (30th of 31)
Day 2 - DrWilgy (1st of 1) (16th of 29)
Day 3 - Golden (7th of 7) (25th of 26)
Day 4 - Devin the Omniscient (6th of 9) (17th of 24)
Day 5 - espers (7th of 8) (22nd of 23)
Day 6 - MacDougall (2nd of 7) (4th of 19)
Day 7 - sig ---> Choutas (1st of 1) (9th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (3rd of 4) (15th of 17)
Day 9 - sig (5th of 5) (16th of 16)

[/quote]

RUSSTIFINKO

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - Matt F (2nd of 2) (29th of 31)
Day 2 - Sorsha ---> Long Con (8th of 8) (26th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha (4th of 4) (22nd of 26)
Day 4 - Sorsha (10th of 10) (21st of 24)
Day 5 - espers (1st of 8) (9th of 23)
Day 6 - Black Rock ---> MacDougall (7th of 7) (16th of 19)
Day 7 - motel room ---> seaside (6h of 8) (16th of 18)
Day 8 - motel room (1st of 2) (2nd of 17)
Day 9 - motel room (2nd of 2) (11th of 16)

STRAWHENGE

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - seaside (1st of 1) (25th of 31)
Day 2 - seaside (2nd of 2) (5th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha (2nd of 4) (7th of 26)
Day 4 - Sorsha (4th of 10) (6th of 24)
Day 5 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1) (2nd of 23)
Day 6 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1) (10th of 19)
Day 7 - TheFloyd73 (2nd of 4) (5th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 4) (1st of 17)
Day 9 - Metalmarsh89 (1st of 1) (9th of 16)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All of you bystanders watching me yell at Bullzeye and Choutas have some obligation to state your own perspectives instead of just bugging me about my own posts.

What do you think about them right now based on these exchanges? Out with it.

[Marmot]

Like twice. Maybe three times. Answering posts that directly relate to me and facts I know because I'm me is much easier than reading through hundreds of posts and forming in-depth views based on careful analysis. I'm not even trying to defend myself from being lynched here, I'm just defending against the idea that my having been quiet and uninvolved is in any way related to my alignment.

The idea here isn't that quiet Bullzeye = bad Bullzeye. It's that maintaining an interest in responding to accusations and very little else for days and days is rather fundamental scumtell in Mafia. You fit the mold. Here's the problem: you're insisting that affecting this game in any other way is impossible without "forming in-depth views based on careful analysis". That is not the only option a townie has at his disposal. Most townies never even bother to perform "careful analysis". You've done close to nothing.

Various others were never caught up full with this game and still tried to provide something meaningful. bcornett is an example who comes to mind -- constantly behind the pace of the game, but when he was around he'd put something of value in the thread.

This is a very good point, actually.

Linki: that's what I'm doing right now. Get out of my head.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is a very good point, actually.

Linki: that's what I'm doing right now. Get out of my head.

Why is it a good point? What about this point resonates with Metalmarsh89?

[Ricochet]

I have two more to read, but of the wagons so far, which incidentally include Bullzeye and Choutas, in this very moment, no re-evaluation of a re-evaluation of a re-evaluation, I'd say slight lean on Choutas. Bullzeye's time issues in playing are documented. Meanwhile, not sure what to opinion to formulate on Choutas' burn out; could be just as genuine, for all we know. It's not like I'm feeling fresh as a daisy or anything...I just happen to be mad...and that's a fact.

However, I'd trump so far all these wagons with a motel vote, I feel. So again, what have you all on motel (except Choutas, whom I already asked) or feel on him atm?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

However, I'd trump so far all these wagons with a motel vote, I feel. So again, what have you all on motel (except Choutas, whom I already asked) or feel on him atm?

Hardest read of the game for me because of The Mac Incident. One of the most important components of evidence against him is the same one that still has people terrified of me (defending Mac vocally and consistently). I grant the objective validity of that suspicion, but I struggle to adopt it because it would be so clearly hypocritical. Indeed to even get a fair gauge on motel room I feel like I have to completely remove the matter of MacDougall from my mindset.

I think his language has been agreeable in terms of meta, but on Day 10 I don't care about meta. His willingness to traverse the bandwagon spectrum with me on Day 6 from Diiny to Black Rock and back to Diiny is disconcerting. His recent content has been lacking. It's a case I think I can support.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rico, immediate thoughts on Russ?

[Choutas]

He only thinks I look better than Bullz that's all.

A lot of that is based upon your conduct during the seaside lynch. Maybe I should reconsider that perspective: you vehemently opposed the lynch of a townie when a likely alternative was a lynch of a mafioso. Maybe you knew too much.

You can never know too much
This way or another I won't be playing tomorrow. Unless something extraordinary happens. Henceforth I'll only play 16 player games with newbies and low posters.

linki: Motel Room is one of strongest town reads all game. As good as JJJ imo.

[Marmot]

This is a very good point, actually.

Linki: that's what I'm doing right now. Get out of my head.

Why is it a good point? What about this point resonates with Metalmarsh89?

The whole salami.

Your comparison of Bullzeye to bcornett, in that brian complained about keeping up, but still managed to state his opinion at times. Strawhenge has been acting similarly, but you have a townread on him, as do I.

But my question to you is, what is your read on Choutas?

[Ricochet]

Rico, immediate thoughts on Russ?

Not so immediate as more like, upcoming.