[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

Oh great, it seems my computer has been itching to crash from too many tabs. Brb

[Ricochet]

On Russ, no objections to JJJ's reads I can think of and it leaves me just as unsure about Russ as it apparently left JJJ.

Long Con backing up Russ' biding time with posting is a null for me, especially since I don't believe RDW to have had a "good nose for scum behaviour" moment, given that he did jackshit otherwise in the game (no offence to RDW himself, just telling things how they are).

LC waffling on an inquiy on Sorsha makes me think more of LC who didn't talk one bit of b24, when the latter was his counterwagon, and probably didn't challenge any of his defenders or BTODers, but rather left them all deal with the backlash afterwards (and let's not forget, the "LC defenders begone" momentum was strong). So it reads more LC avoiding breadcrumbs that dismissing possible teamie trying to throw him a ball at the net.

I elaborated the above a bit too much, but I'm not actually planning a point-by-point interpretation. I still think the Mac and BR interactions make Russ wary. He's made solid efforts to pitch a read on both - especially on BR, which, apart from Epig and a few others, the majority of the players have been ignorant. His [Russ's] views on Mac took the most to solidify, so I'm 50-50 on whether he did some genuine work or mimickery.

Besides, the issue of his votes on LC and Mac still drive me nuts. Okay, I could temper my doubt of his vote on LC being unlikely bussing. Russ voted, then Golden voted b24 and LC suddenly had a valid shot. Without a sixth vote on b24, the teammates might have indeed thought there's no hope left.

I don't feel such mixed feelings about the Mac vote. Why go all the way to look into other player's cases, grow your own, vote Mac to put him at great distance and then get stuck on that vote (because otherwise it would look like horrible backsliding), all this as a teammate?

Oh, one more small point, the gut tells me the BR-Russ linking Mac did is spew. But I don't have more elaborate thoughts on this.

So I'd say Russ stays at wary camp.

[Bullzeye]

Guys, I deserve to die for missing the vote yesterday. I'm so ashamed I never miss votes! I was just so tired I forgot.

[Ricochet]

Lotsa typos in there, but fuggit.

Also, others should post, otherwise I'll make a 15-post chain in no time.

[Marmot]

Guys, I deserve to die for missing the vote yesterday. I'm so ashamed I never miss votes! I was just so tired I forgot.

Ok, Bullzeye. :P

[Bullzeye]

Guys, I deserve to die for missing the vote yesterday. I'm so ashamed I never miss votes! I was just so tired I forgot.

Ok, Bullzeye. :P

Just because I deserve to die (and I do) doesn't mean you should kill me. That'd be too obvious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guys, I deserve to die for missing the vote yesterday. I'm so ashamed I never miss votes! I was just so tired I forgot.

Ok, Bullzeye. :P

Just because I deserve to die (and I do) doesn't mean you should kill me. That'd be too obvious.

I kind of think we should though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

it must be said, your townread of motel is the strongest I can recall since...well, your townread of Mac

I'm going to clarify because I think there's a problem of perception: motel room is not my strongest town read (and nor was Mac at any juncture). He is a town read, as was Mac, but I am less confident in calling him that than yourself for example. I think it appears to be a stronger read than it really is because it's at odds with what most other people seem to think -- just like my Mac read was.

I'd like to think I won't be completely wrong about a controversial town read twice in one game.

[Bullzeye]

Guys, I deserve to die for missing the vote yesterday. I'm so ashamed I never miss votes! I was just so tired I forgot.

Ok, Bullzeye. :P

Just because I deserve to die (and I do) doesn't mean you should kill me. That'd be too obvious.

I kind of think we should though.

I kinda think I deserve to die only in the sense that I deserve to not have to suffer the heartbreak, trauma, and inevitable loneliness of immortality. Also because I missed the vote. But we all make mistakes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bullzeye, let's have a man-to-man.

If you're town and get lynched, I'm going to be really bummed -- not just because of the very negative effect it would have on town's chances to win, but because it was at least in part motivated by you throwing in the towel. If you have struggled to keep up with this game, I understand. It has moved very fast in nearly every phase. That's no reason to give up though. You'd really be letting a lot of people down, not just those of us still alive but also a lot of people who've already died. The biggest reason this thread has gotten so big is that a lot of people have put an immense effort into this game for nearly an entire month.

That's a huge investment for all of us. If you're town and you just wait for us to lynch you so you can be free of the obligation, that's really unfair to everyone who has put so much work into this game. I'm not asking you to change the world -- just give us something substantial that we have a fair ability to read and work with. Heck you might still get lynched, but if you're town at least we'd be left with your legacy.

I genuinely mean no offense.

[Bullzeye]

Bullzeye, let's have a man-to-man.

If you're town and get lynched, I'm going to be really bummed -- not just because of the very negative effect it would have on town's chances to win, but because it was at least in part motivated by you throwing in the towel. If you have struggled to keep up with this game, I understand. It has moved very fast in nearly every phase. That's no reason to give up though. You'd really be letting a lot of people down, not just those of us still alive but also a lot of people who've already died. The biggest reason this thread has gotten so big is that a lot of people have put an immense effort into this game for nearly an entire month.

That's a huge investment for all of us. If you're town and you just wait for us to lynch you so you can be free of the obligation, that's really unfair to everyone who has put so much work into this game. I'm not asking you to change the world -- just give us something substantial that we have a fair ability to read and work with. Heck you might still get lynched, but if you're town at least we'd be left with your legacy.

I genuinely mean no offense.

I deserve to die because I threw in the towel? My shame at having missed the vote will follow me to all my graves, in this game and all the games to come. In 100% honesty there were days where I voted without having read a single post and there are hundreds of posts in this game I still haven't read. I have no idea where my head is with this game any more and don't even know where to start.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no idea where my head is with this game any more and don't even know where to start.

How about you start right here? It isn't absolutely necessary to read every post. Maybe you can read the posts made so far on Day 11 and share your thoughts. If you don't understand something contextually speaking you can just raise your hand and ask.

[Bullzeye]

I have no idea where my head is with this game any more and don't even know where to start.

How about you start right here? It isn't absolutely necessary to read every post. Maybe you can read the posts made so far on Day 11 and share your thoughts. If you don't understand something contextually speaking you can just raise your hand and ask.

I'll deserve to die from lack of sleep if I stay up too much longer but sure, I'll have a go.

[Ricochet]

Nothing new I picked up on Fuzz - either that or I need to try again tomorrow fresh. If I am to strip down my read on interactions with baddies, then yes, I'd elevate the "sussing Mac but never considering to vote him" part to a full ping, to which the sudden prompt GTH bad read of BR and his possible waffling on Floyd can only add up.

I'm torn on the Mac interactions. There's so much banter and spewage to make me consider it could be of the same baddies trademark antagonism brand.

As for the purple post, yes, it looks very slippery of Mac, if he genuinely did a "ur scum. oh oops. just joking tee hee ur town" on a teammate. It's look fairly uncharacteristic. Then again, it's the only backtrack I can recall from Mac's spewfest, innit?

goddamn this analysis

JJJ, do you reckon Mac would repeat his ways of planting votes on teammates D1, knowing they could be picked up in his meta (which you did), or would make such a vote as bait for us?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, do you reckon Mac would repeat his ways of planting votes on teammates D1, knowing they could be picked up in his meta (which you did), or would make such a vote as bait for us?

I don't remember him ever being accused of doing that by anyone before. I know I hadn't prior to this game -- I only bothered to look into old games because someone asked me if it was a trend. I don't think that single point is the most important one anyway.

[Ricochet]

JJJ, do you reckon Mac would repeat his ways of planting votes on teammates D1, knowing they could be picked up in his meta (which you did), or would make such a vote as bait for us?

I don't remember him ever being accused of doing that by anyone before. I know I hadn't prior to this game -- I only bothered to look into old games because someone asked me if it was a trend. I don't think that single point is the most important one anyway.

Ok, so someone did, you checked, it turned out consistent.

Why would it not be that important, if it's a pattern Mac would either repeat (because it's in his blood, so to say, and it comes as handy for him waffling on any D1 strong committement - I mean, com'on: "let's lynch sum lurk, guys"... real original there) or would want us to believe that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ, do you reckon Mac would repeat his ways of planting votes on teammates D1, knowing they could be picked up in his meta (which you did), or would make such a vote as bait for us?

I don't remember him ever being accused of doing that by anyone before. I know I hadn't prior to this game -- I only bothered to look into old games because someone asked me if it was a trend. I don't think that single point is the most important one anyway.

Ok, so someone did, you checked, it turned out consistent.

Why would it not be that important, if it's a pattern Mac would either repeat (because it's in his blood, so to say, and it comes as handy for him waffling on any D1 strong committement - I mean, com'on: "let's lynch sum lurk, guys"... real original there) or would want us to believe that?

The person who asked me to check is not from RYM. Nobody has ever told Mac that he has this tendency (if he even does) to my knowledge, so I don't think he'd think to act on it in this game. I didn't check all of his scum games anyway -- I wasn't looking for a lasting trend, I only wanted evidence that he's done it before to validate the line of thinking.

[Marmot]

I've only skimmed your spews briefly Jay. I was actually planning on doing some myself (tomorrow), and comparing results.

This game got really intense the past couple of days for me, as in I put a ton into it, more then I'm used to putting into a mafia game. So I'm taking advantage of this extra-long day period to recharge a little bit.

That said, I'm here if anyone wants to "shove anything in my face", to quote a wise man who still lives in this game.

[Ricochet]

I've only skimmed your spews briefly Jay. I was actually planning on doing some myself (tomorrow), and comparing results.

This game got really intense the past couple of days for me, as in I put a ton into it, more then I'm used to putting into a mafia game. So I'm taking advantage of this extra-long day period to recharge a little bit.

That said, I'm here if anyone wants to "shove anything in my face", to quote a wise man who still lives in this game.

I still think you should get that face adjusted.

[Marmot]

I've only skimmed your spews briefly Jay. I was actually planning on doing some myself (tomorrow), and comparing results.

This game got really intense the past couple of days for me, as in I put a ton into it, more then I'm used to putting into a mafia game. So I'm taking advantage of this extra-long day period to recharge a little bit.

That said, I'm here if anyone wants to "shove anything in my face", to quote a wise man who still lives in this game.

I still think you should get that face adjusted.

[Tangrowth]

Guess what just started playing on my Tangerine Dream playlist?

[Marmot]

Believe it or not, I'm listening to Phaedra right now.

[Tangrowth]

Believe it or not, I'm listening to Phaedra right now.

I've been listening to them chronologically, so I've already had the pleasure of hearing that one again earlier this evening.

The early stuff is really great, but IMO you just can't beat the run of Phaedra, Rubycon, Ricochet, and Stratosfear. All of them are so amazing.

[Ricochet]

Guess what just started playing on my Tangerine Dream playlist?

never heard it

[Marmot]

Believe it or not, I'm listening to Phaedra right now.

I've been listening to them chronologically, so I've already had the pleasure of hearing that one again earlier this evening.

The early stuff is really great, but IMO you just can't beat the run of Phaedra, Rubycon, Ricochet, and Stratosfear. All of them are so amazing.

Yup.

I don't listen to them that much tbh, but Stratosfear is my favorite, partially because of the cover art.

[Marmot]

I almost forgot.

JaggedJimmyJay. My vote's back on you now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I almost forgot.

JaggedJimmyJay. My vote's back on you now.

What can I do for you?

[Marmot]

Just returning to the status quo, and taking the pressure of Bullzeye in the hopes that he respond to your request.

[Bullzeye]

Just returning to the status quo, and taking the pressure of Bullzeye in the hopes that he respond to your request.

I deserve to die because I intend to respond. Not necessarily tonight, maybe tomorrow during the day since there's plenty of time. I'm still reading and don't know how long it will take. I deserve to die for being tired and slow at reading as well as not psychic. My many failures are a great source of shame.

[Bullzeye]

Oh and not to mention I still deserve to die for missing that bloody vote!

[Marmot]

Guess what just started playing on my Tangerine Dream playlist?

If we're only counting pre-postgame posts, this post actually broke the Syndicate record. Way to go MP. You're the OT champ! :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just returning to the status quo, and taking the pressure of Bullzeye in the hopes that he respond to your request.

Do you have any thoughts to share about my new suspicion of DrWilgy? It's a bit of a theoretical thing and I am starved for feedback (I know you're getting there Rico, no rush :P)

[Marmot]

Just returning to the status quo, and taking the pressure of Bullzeye in the hopes that he respond to your request.

I deserve to die because I intend to respond. Not necessarily tonight, maybe tomorrow during the day since there's plenty of time. I'm still reading and don't know how long it will take. I deserve to die for being tired and slow at reading as well as not psychic. My many failures are a great source of shame.

You're not my number one lynch option, my vote for you was in jest.

I know you may not have caught up yet, but just know that though you did receive a few votes yesterday, you're not necessarily everyone's number one lynch option. Everybody (except motel room) is fair game today, and should be treated as such.

[Marmot]

Just returning to the status quo, and taking the pressure of Bullzeye in the hopes that he respond to your request.

Do you have any thoughts to share about my new suspicion of DrWilgy? It's a bit of a theoretical thing and I am starved for feedback (I know you're getting there Rico, no rush :P)

If you're talking about your spew conclusions, I'm intentionally not looking at those so that I can get a fresh perspective when (well if) I do my own tomorrow. I did read your post of mine, but I'm not going to spew-read myself.

If you're talking about something else, what might that be?

[Tangrowth]

Guess what just started playing on my Tangerine Dream playlist?

If we're only counting pre-postgame posts, this post actually broke the Syndicate record. Way to go MP. You're the OT champ! :P

Seriously? Awesome.

I mean... that was totally intentional.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you're talking about your spew conclusions, I'm intentionally not looking at those so that I can get a fresh perspective when (well if) I do my own tomorrow. I did read your post of mine, but I'm not going to spew-read myself.

If you're talking about something else, what might that be?

I am talking about that. If you'd prefer to wait until you've done your own that's groovy. I just hope we have enough time to field a substantive discussion before we get too close to EOD.

[Marmot]

If I don't feel up to doing my own tomorrow, I'll just read yours and respond. I do know Monday will be rather busy for most of the day for me. Having the deadline at 16:54 will do that, so tomorrow is going to have to be my big day.

[Tangrowth]

If I don't feel up to doing my own tomorrow, I'll just read yours and respond. I do know Monday will be rather busy for most of the day for me. Having the deadline at 16:54 will do that, so tomorrow is going to have to be my big day.

I'll leave now.

[Ricochet]

Guess what just started playing on my Tangerine Dream playlist?

If we're only counting pre-postgame posts, this post actually broke the Syndicate record. Way to go MP. You're the OT champ! :P

Truly no content would have been worthier of this accomplishment.

[Marmot]

If I don't feel up to doing my own tomorrow, I'll just read yours and respond. I do know Monday will be rather busy for most of the day for me. Having the deadline at 16:54 will do that, so tomorrow is going to have to be my big day.

I'll leave now.

[Marmot]

And Haappy Halloweeen ye silent ones.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've been here refreshing periodically hoping something might happen. I think I might have finally run out of things to say. :P

Happy Diabetes Awareness Day y'all.

[Marmot]

Has mafia done thi s to you? How do you stay uup so late.?

I'm on my way to bed, soon....

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My shift was changed again, so I am willfully adapting my sleep schedule to compensate. Tonight/this morning that means staying up for hours and hours.

[Marmot]

My shift was changed again, so I am willfully adapting my sleep schedule to compensate. Tonight/this morning that means staying up for hours and hours.

It's amazing that we sleep at almost the same time, even though you live like 7 or 8 hours east.

Actually, I might ieven go to bed beofre you do geneerally.

[Choutas]

Actually if you pierce JJJ with a knife there will be no blood coming out. A flow of electricity will hit you back(good conductor) and there will be oil spills everywhere. The best way to defeat a JJJ is to trick him into a steel mill like Terminator 2.(

[Tangrowth]

I totally slept an extra hour last night and didn't even remember about daylight savings until Epi's PM.

[Epignosis]

[Ricochet]

I've slacked up too much this afternoon. I'll try to do better in the evening.

For now, reviewing the spew on DrWilgy. I'm skipping Diiny because I refuse to believe in a world in which that D6 counter was mafia on mafia. He can return to SK contention, if there's enough evidence, although I also have him as a fairly strong certain someone candidate, to be honest.

LC - Wilgy direction is very sparse. Good point on LC calling Wilgy and JJJ voters "natural". From Wilgy's Dusk 0 voters, I still have my doubts about motel, of course, not sure I'm reading MM as teamie and I'm not it, so there could be minimal to no mafia pushing Wilgy to CEO status. Incidentally, your own tally has a baddie (Floyd) and a recurrent name (MM), as well as sig and Diiny, I think. Where's Matt to be the judge of this? ...oh.

The talk about sussing gameplay claims can be tinfoiled as distancing, sure. Let's not forget Wilgy went through with this, voting BWT, which LC wanted nothing to do with it. I'm open to tinfoiling this.

HOWEVER, we must review what Wilgy did to vote LC, eventually, which, according to my notes, was picking up on LC's bea case not sounding genuine. He didn't build the case right away, but returned with it later on. Is this a moment of hesitation and fine tuning from a baddie Wilgy or a genuine case making, nonetheless? JJJ, what do you think about this?

Moving on.

Mac spewing Wilgy's analysis efforts can be a possible #3 (discrediting someone by referencing a previous scummasterjob), but I remember not being satisfied with such analysis as well. That particular analysis by Wilgy simply didn't sound like anything grounded in opinions and also produced a worst result that proved, nonetheless, to flip civilian. If that analysis would be, alone in a vacuum, Wilgy's sole contribution, I'd suspect it very much myself - which would lead me to believe that MacBaddie took distance and threw shade. It doesn't make me lean on a conclusion, based on other facts, but this is my take on it, nonetheless.

Further spewing makes me wonder if Mac didn't just played the victim card, just like he did with Epig, Matt, me, etc. Slight lean in Wilgy's favor.

Mac cheerleading Fuzz suspecting Wilgy for "vague statements" and probably CEO hints makes me rather look back at Mac - Fuzz interactions with a certain eyeballin'. If Mac answered earnestly at Wilgy's questioning, why would he agree with Fuzz on Wilgy being suss for said questioning? It's different accusations (Mac accused Wilgy of bullsuit analysis, Fuzz of vague statements and hints), yet Mac feels the need to switch on to Fuzz's charge. Hmm. Feels like spew. JJJ, what do you think of this particular thing?

I don't understand the Mac vs Russ assertion by Wilgy, leading to the "strong stench of scum" Mac comment, either, but I agree the antagonism is by now settling in.

Unfortunately, the couple of posts you're interested in the most, JJJ, are the ones I don't have a clear viewpoint on. Mac pushing for Wilgy instead of Diiny, at the time of Diiny counterwagoning forming, could still have been Mac's way to seem genuine.

By genuine I mean that, should Diiny counterwagon have worked and Diiny would have flipped civ, Mac would have been able to say "don't look at me demanding any save through Diiny. I told you Wilgy, didn't I?"

Actually, wait, no, I think in theory he could have chosen either Diiny (he voted for him D5) and Wilgy (he had a long suss history)... Hmm, maybe this requires an analysis on whether Mac dropped the Diiny case visibly on D6, in order for his best shot at seeming genuine being push only for Wilgy, at least for the moment.

Mac's "ok I'll vote Diiny" shrug moment definitely makes me think Diiny is non-Mafia, at least, so Mac didn't gave a shit. However, the "Wilgy moment" still retains WIFOM inconclusive qualities.

This all is slighty more complicated and less eloquent than you've put it, JJJ, and I agree it could be tinfoiled. Not sure I can put my finger on it, though.

I'd really like to know, JJJ, if you feel just as bad about Wilgy based on how Wilgy developed his LC and Mac cases. I have my doubts that we can work solely with one-way sussings. Maybe we can indeed get lucky and confirm a tinfoil this way, like you're attempting to suggest, but luck is not what we need to count on here.

[Ricochet]

Typos and such again, but I can't be bothered.