[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[DrWilgy]

Guys!! I'm busy. I'm trying my best to stay upto date, but I don't have time for a mega post. I'm going to the gun range later and may be able to afterwards.

The biggest thing that I think is relevant to the points of view that see me as baddie. Do y'all see me as a baddie based more so upon my actions, or do you see them based upon the more so actions of confirmed baddies?

If y'all are willing to lynch me based upon actions of baddies, then I see little hope for us.

I will try very hard to be here before you depart JJJ.

[Marmot]

Let's go worst case situation. Nine players. Three Mafia, five civilians, and one serial killer. We mislynch, and two civilians die at night (Mafia kills on odd nights, correct?)
Three Mafia, two civilians, one serial killer. The Mafia can forcibly tie the vote at the last moment, if worst comes to worst. It's not far-fetched to suggest that today could be lynch-or-lose.

Metalmarsh, in a world where a wagon of your strongest town read has one more vote than the wagon of your second strongest town read, what do you do?

J3, as an aside, I find it amusing how I thought we were very similar at first but are proving to be very different. Simple things, such as vote ideology and pressure tactics.

If the phase is going to end in 5 minutes, tough call. If I had reason to believe that one player was civ for reasons no one else knows, I would vote accordingly to save that player. Otherwise, I would not vote on that wagon. Asking someone to vote for their strongest town read is a high price.

[Marmot]

Jay: his most suspicious behavior has come on Day 2, and Day 6, two of the days we've lynched mafia. I've read his Day 2 material which looks inconsistent and questionable. Though he defended a flipped baddie hard on Day 6, his content looks better.

I think people have made this assertion about my Day 2 because they're misinterpreting me treating the matter of LC like a townie is supposed to treat it. I was never certain of him, and I put a lot of suspicion out there for him to address. To his credit, I thought he addressed that suspicion pretty decently, and it did give me pause. Eventually though when the wagons were bcornett vs Long Con, I made my decision between them, thankfully it was the right one. I almost always vote on-wagon -- I don't like it when my vote is meaningless.

I understand some of this. I have more to say on this topic that I just haven't posted yet. Sorry that I've gotten lazy in that department.

[Marmot]

I don't think DrWigy's "information" stems from his role.

If it doesn't stem from his role, where do you think it stems from, and why would you consider it not credible?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will try very hard to be here before you depart JJJ.

I don't demand a big post. I demand something.

Here's a start: what is your read on me right now, and why?

[Ricochet]

I'm going to catch up now and hopefully contribute soon!

Diiny, you recently called my projections of "lurker baddies playing the lurk card" or "high poster baddies playing the high post card" as whole lotta nothing. How do you feel about Bullzeye here? Genuine civ who truly can't catch up or baddie who won't?

Same question, anyone else.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think DrWigy's "information" stems from his role.

If it doesn't stem from his role, where do you think it stems from, and why would you consider it not credible?

I can't answer that.

[Bullzeye]

I'm going to catch up now and hopefully contribute soon!

Diiny, you recently called my projections of "lurker baddies playing the lurk card" or "high poster baddies playing the high post card" as whole lotta nothing. How do you feel about Bullzeye here? Genuine civ who truly can't catch up or baddie who won't?

Same question, anyone else.

I deserve to die yadayadayada.

I genuinely haven't been able to catch up. I don't see why I wouldn't try to if I was a baddie. I know I said I'd do it yesterday but I went out instead, my life doesn't revolve around mafia and I'm under no obligation to be here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, you recently called my projections of "lurker baddies playing the lurk card" or "high poster baddies playing the high post card" as whole lotta nothing. How do you feel about Bullzeye here? Genuine civ who truly can't catch up or baddie who won't?

Same question, anyone else.

It's difficult to reconcile his play with a townie role. I've given him fair advice repeatedly about how he can get involved without having to catch up with the entire thread, and most recently he has pledged to give it a shot.

Still waiting.

[Ricochet]

I don't think DrWigy's "information" stems from his role.

If it doesn't stem from his role, where do you think it stems from, and why would you consider it not credible?

I can't answer that.

I told you to pick me as CEO assistant, you guys, I would have told you everything I would have found out!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm under no obligation to be here.

There is no obligation, but there is a pledge. You've said you'll try. You're here again the moment someone criticizes you.

I think you're paying much more attention than you let on.

[RadicalFuzz]

Let's go worst case situation. Nine players. Three Mafia, five civilians, and one serial killer. We mislynch, and two civilians die at night (Mafia kills on odd nights, correct?)
Three Mafia, two civilians, one serial killer. The Mafia can forcibly tie the vote at the last moment, if worst comes to worst. It's not far-fetched to suggest that today could be lynch-or-lose.

Metalmarsh, in a world where a wagon of your strongest town read has one more vote than the wagon of your second strongest town read, what do you do?

J3, as an aside, I find it amusing how I thought we were very similar at first but are proving to be very different. Simple things, such as vote ideology and pressure tactics.

If the phase is going to end in 5 minutes, tough call. If I had reason to believe that one player was civ for reasons no one else knows, I would vote accordingly to save that player. Otherwise, I would not vote on that wagon. Asking someone to vote for their strongest town read is a high price.

So you would tie the vote, then? Attempt to save your strongest town read by giving your second strongest town read a chance at death?

[Bullzeye]

I'm under no obligation to be here.

There is no obligation, but there is a pledge. You've said you'll try. You're here again the moment someone criticizes you.

I think you're paying much more attention than you let on.

I literally just got back here. I have the thread open in one tab where I've been catching up, and the front page of the syndicate open which I refresh every so often to see if there are new posts here or in the other game I'm in. I don't see why anyone would think I'm pretending to be behind in order to avoid suspicion. That would be a stupid tactic. I'd definitely deserve to die if that was my goal. I guess part of me doesn't see the point in trying when I'm likely to get lynched regardless at this point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I guess part of me doesn't see the point in trying when I'm likely to get lynched regardless at this point.

Why don't you take a look at the tally?

[DrWilgy]

I will try very hard to be here before you depart JJJ.

I don't demand a big post. I demand something.

Here's a start: what is your read on me right now, and why?

SK, based upon Fuzz's answer and your interactions with an unresponsive SK. Also, the "I'm not focused on SK" banter from earlier. The whole "information" not stemming from my role also makes me believe you are SK. I thought I had caught SK with my info based play, but you had stated that you didn't understand it, until now. I think that you being the other ACEO should understand it more so than Matt F and Fuzz, and they seemed to understand what I was doing.

Fuzz vouch for by business based on my steam activity plz. My Dota ratio to offline ratio should be 0-100

Linki: Rico, I'm sharing as much as I can. I still believe that you had some influence on last night's actions. Just a hunch though. I think if anyone can clear someone as not being the SK it's you.

Ok... G2g now. I will still be reading.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also: "I'm not going to try because I'll probably get lynched" is a TERRIBLE mindset for a townie to have. Your posts and your presence both have value if you're town and to just quit is BULLSHIT.

I'm sorry I'm sick of this crap.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will try very hard to be here before you depart JJJ.

I don't demand a big post. I demand something.

Here's a start: what is your read on me right now, and why?

SK, based upon Fuzz's answer and your interactions with an unresponsive SK. Also, the "I'm not focused on SK" banter from earlier. The whole "information" not stemming from my role also makes me believe you are SK. I thought I had caught SK with my info based play, but you had stated that you didn't understand it, until now. I think that you being the other ACEO should understand it more so than Matt F and Fuzz, and they seemed to understand what I was doing.

No, I still have no idea what you're talking about. I do know things which are relevant to the ACEO positions, but you know that you and I are not permitted to discuss those things here. So for you to keep asking me to read into vague content that you have said yourself is not relevant to the ACEO positions is bullcrap.

Give me a straight answer or die. Thinking I'm the SK because I've focused on mafia analysis is totally weak too, and frankly it's in your interests to wonder about that if you're mafia too.

[Ricochet]

Linki: Rico, I'm sharing as much as I can. I still believe that you had some influence on last night's actions. Just a hunch though. I think if anyone can clear someone as not being the SK it's you.

da fek, this is the first time I'm hearing you say something about me having anything with Night 10 stuff. I have nothing in my power to clear anyone of.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Moreover Wilgy, there is absolutely nothing about my comment on your "information" and its relevance to your role which should indicate that I am the SK. That is a nonsense connection -- unless you have an explanation. Hurry up and give me one.

[Marmot]

I'm going to catch up now and hopefully contribute soon!

Diiny, you recently called my projections of "lurker baddies playing the lurk card" or "high poster baddies playing the high post card" as whole lotta nothing. How do you feel about Bullzeye here? Genuine civ who truly can't catch up or baddie who won't?

Same question, anyone else.

He could also be a baddie who doesn't have time to catch up or he could be a civvie who has not interest in catching up.

Linki: I meant to say either wagon, not "that" wagon.

Linki 2: Sorry, laptop crashed.

[Bullzeye]

Also: "I'm not going to try because I'll probably get lynched" is a TERRIBLE mindset for a townie to have. Your posts and your presence both have value if you're town and to just quit is BULLSHIT.

I'm sorry I'm sick of this crap.

I haven't said I've quit. What I'm saying is I don't want to waste what little free time I actually have by going to a huge amount of effort for absolutely no personal gain. I think you are taking this too seriously and I'm sorry if my not treating the game like a matter of life and death is upsetting to you but I have better things to be doing with my time than trying to force myself to read a game I no longer understand for the benefit of people who largely won't care what I say.

I deserve to die etc.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He could also be a baddie who doesn't have time to catch up or he could be a civvie who has not interest in catching up.

Pick one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also: "I'm not going to try because I'll probably get lynched" is a TERRIBLE mindset for a townie to have. Your posts and your presence both have value if you're town and to just quit is BULLSHIT.

I'm sorry I'm sick of this crap.

I haven't said I've quit. What I'm saying is I don't want to waste what little free time I actually have by going to a huge amount of effort for absolutely no personal gain. I think you are taking this too seriously and I'm sorry if my not treating the game like a matter of life and death is upsetting to you but I have better things to be doing with my time than trying to force myself to read a game I no longer understand for the benefit of people who largely won't care what I say.

I deserve to die etc.

BULL. SHIT.

You're not in my head. You don't know what I care about. Stop making these assumptions and do something.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everyone not named Bullzeye, what is your read on his newest content? GO.

[Ricochet]

What was the meta evoked on Bullzeye? Does he bark when civvie or bark when baddie - or whenever?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What was the meta evoked on Bullzeye? Does he bark when civvie or bark when baddie - or whenever?

Epi suggested he tends to fight hard when he is faced with suspicion. I'll see if I can find that and whether he supported it with any historical evidence.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He referenced these two games for Bullzeye while granting that they were unconventional. I know nothing about those games though -- and I don't like to rely very much on meta reading on Day 11.

Flash was unconventional, but Bullzeye and I had a good back and forth (I was "bad", but I don't consider Flash a true Mafia game).

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 2&sr=posts

Last Man Standing was another unconventional one (again, not a true Mafia game), but:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 5&sr=posts

My point in all this is that Bullzeye seemed perfectly fine with MacDougall calling him bad.

That's unlike him if he's a civilian, from my experience.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

BULLZEYE

[Ricochet]

IDK, overall I was leaning town with the no grip on the play no more, strictly regarding his apologetic claims, but I'll admit this question I posed has stirred some particular reactions. Overall, I'm not sure I'd be inclined to make a vote over how spooked I am by someone's grumpy reaction, rather than on someone who looks solid suspect rather on the facts (alas, who among us really does? whooo, whooo is it whooo, whoo is it...).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

IDK, overall I was leaning town with the no grip on the play no more, strictly regarding his apologetic claims, but I'll admit this question I posed has stirred some particular reactions. Overall, I'm not sure I'd be inclined to make a vote over how spooked I am by someone's grumpy reaction, rather than on someone who looks solid suspect rather on the facts (alas, who among us really does? whooo, whooo is it whooo, whoo is it...).

Is there a single point you'd make in Bullzeye's favor in terms of the evidence?

You've been King Waffle lately, make a choice.

[RadicalFuzz]

MM can you reiterate your answer to my question, I don't understand the linki.

I don't know about Bullzeye's meta, but publicly giving up reads anything but SK. In the meta I'm used to it's usually a scum-oriented thing to do, but I'm not sure about here, particularly with the record-setting post count. I'd prefer Wilgy or MM because I've been following them for longer, but if Bullzeye isn't going to play then that ties our hands somewhat. It's the objectively worst choice as civilian, so for that alone I'd have to assume he's scum.

[Diiny]

Oh man, that was all we got from wilgy?

J, why didn't you let him answer the glorious wall of read related shit we'd piled up for him and instead ask him what you asked him? :/

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's the objectively worst choice as civilian, so for that alone I'd have to assume he's scum.

You have to? His non-action assumes total command of your brain and forces you to do something that you might not believe in doing?

[Ricochet]

I'm King Toast Brain. I'll decide when I'll decide.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh man, that was all we got from wilgy?

J, why didn't you let him answer the glorious wall of read related shit we'd piled up for him and instead ask him what you asked him? :/

He said he doesn't have time for a huge post. I'm not going to ask him for a huge post. He has to have a fair opportunity to put something in this thread that can be judged.

So instead I poked him for his vague reads on me. Something smaller and simpler.

His response does not inspire me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bullzeye, tell me how I am supposed to see this:

I'm going to catch up now and hopefully contribute soon!

followed by this:

Also: "I'm not going to try because I'll probably get lynched" is a TERRIBLE mindset for a townie to have. Your posts and your presence both have value if you're town and to just quit is BULLSHIT.

I'm sorry I'm sick of this crap.

I haven't said I've quit. What I'm saying is I don't want to waste what little free time I actually have by going to a huge amount of effort for absolutely no personal gain. I think you are taking this too seriously and I'm sorry if my not treating the game like a matter of life and death is upsetting to you but I have better things to be doing with my time than trying to force myself to read a game I no longer understand for the benefit of people who largely won't care what I say.

I deserve to die etc.

and think anything other than "this man is slow-rolling us by promising content which he never intends to provide"?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Bullzeye is mafia.

This is the most tense and exciting time of the game so far and he is a part of it. He has put up over 100 posts in this game. He has an opportunity to play this thread right now and make his mark on this exciting scenario.

Instead, he makes promises that he doesn't live up to, and he states his disinterest in playing -- despite continually being present in the nick of time to respond to accusations from Epi then me then Rico (perhaps among others) over the last few cycles.

[Marmot]

He could also be a baddie who doesn't have time to catch up or he could be a civvie who has not interest in catching up.

Pick one.

I made a similar assertion about Choutas yesterday, and you found the decision to do so uninspiring. Why the fuck would you ask me to do the same thing again today?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He could also be a baddie who doesn't have time to catch up or he could be a civvie who has not interest in catching up.

Pick one.

I made a similar assertion about Choutas yesterday, and you found the decision to do so uninspiring. Why the fuck would you ask me to do the same thing again today?

I don't remember what you're talking about re: Choutas (unless you mean your actual vote?). I'm asking you for a gun to head read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We have two players who've faced significant suspicion this phase and not done much to answer for it:

DrWilgy (been busy and he has explained why)

Bullzeye (has better things to do)

I think the latter is more suspicious. I endorse this lynch. If someone thinks I am wrong, please say so and be loud about it.

I'm gone in 40 minutes.

[RadicalFuzz]

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt that their main go is to win. If I see something anti-town I reach the conclusion that the person responsible for that is anti-town. Do you think this is faulty?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt that their main go is to win. If I see something anti-town I reach the conclusion that the person responsible for that is anti-town. Do you think this is faulty?

Do you consider all of the variables or just that single "something anti-town"?

[Diiny]

We have two players who've faced significant suspicion this phase and not done much to answer for it:

DrWilgy (been busy and he has explained why)

Bullzeye (has better things to do)

I think the latter is more suspicious. I endorse this lynch. If someone thinks I am wrong, please say so and be loud about it.

I'm gone in 40 minutes.

If they were suspicious for the same reasons I'd go with Bully. But Wilgy has things that he's actually done that make me uneasy, wheras Bullzye's failure to produce content is his cause of suspicion.

[RadicalFuzz]

There's a technician here so it's possible my internet will cut at some point. I'll vote Bullseye to remove the tie.

Bullzeye

J3 in this case, Bullzeye choosing to stop playing does nothing bit hurt town by a large margin. If he is town he removes one townie from the game, which we can't afford at this point. If he's scum he skates by silently. Lynching him fixes both potential problems. I think him being town is unlikely due to the sheer strength of this action. If it was minor and there were counterweights, then there would be conflict present. But as it is, what is the alternative?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If they were suspicious for the same reasons I'd go with Bully. But Wilgy has things that he's actually done that make me uneasy, wheras Bullzye's failure to produce content is his cause of suspicion.

There have been multiple evidence-based cases mounted against Bullzeye.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There's a technician here so it's possible my internet will cut at some point. I'll vote Bullseye to remove the tie.

Bullzeye

J3 in this case, Bullzeye choosing to stop playing does nothing bit hurt town by a large margin. If he is town he removes one townie from the game, which we can't afford at this point. If he's scum he skates by silently. Lynching him fixes both potential problems. I think him being town is unlikely due to the sheer strength of this action. If it was minor and there were counterweights, then there would be conflict present. But as it is, what is the alternative?

How can these two highlighted statements coexist?

[Diiny]

I'm going to catch up now and hopefully contribute soon!

Diiny, you recently called my projections of "lurker baddies playing the lurk card" or "high poster baddies playing the high post card" as whole lotta nothing. How do you feel about Bullzeye here? Genuine civ who truly can't catch up or baddie who won't?

Same question, anyone else.

I feel like he's pushing it. He said he was catching up yesterday, then posted here saying nothing more than he's catching up. Not saying where he is, what he thinks so far, anything. Plus he's had time to interact with the Content of the Now, which doesn't demand a total knowledge of the whole thread. A townie wants to catch up so they can play mafia. A baddie wants to look like they're catching up so they can look like a townie who wants to play mafia. I think we're seeing someone who wants to look like they're catching up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, does it make you feel awkward and dirty to say "baddie"? It kind of does for me. :P

[Diiny]

If they were suspicious for the same reasons I'd go with Bully. But Wilgy has things that he's actually done that make me uneasy, wheras Bullzye's failure to produce content is his cause of suspicion.

There have been multiple evidence-based cases mounted against Bullzeye.

I was aware there was some suspicion of him previously but I feel like the main part is his frankly awful behaviour recently. Can you point me in the direction of some cases? I'm looking myself but this thread is a labyrinth and I ain't no Pan

linki: I've said baddie? didn't even realise... it's contagious.

[RadicalFuzz]

When I say "removes one townie from the game" I refer to him being literal dead weight. If it's Lynch-or-Lose and one civilian isn't willing to cooperate, then that's just Lose. This is, assuming, that my benefit of the doubt that he's attempting to win is unfounded.