Dune [ENDGAME]

[Black Rock]

MetalMarsh89 has been lynched and was Piter De Vries.

It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to submit your PMs.

I see you MM

[Luke11646]

Yay, we got a bad guy.

[MacDougall]

Luke you aren't meant to celebrate when your team lose a player.

[Luke11646]

Luke you aren't meant to celebrate when your team lose a player.

Oh, I thought I was.
Boohoo I lost a teammate.

[a2thezebra]

Luke you aren't meant to celebrate when your team lose a player.

Oh, I thought I was.
Boohoo I lost a teammate.

No thanks, I don't drink wine.

[sig]

I'd like opinions on whether both Floyd/MM could be mafia.
Either way I don't think FZ is mafia if both were mafia it still would avoid less attention to justvote MM if mafia with MM tying it would be bad if he flipped, if Mafia with floyd vote makes no sense, if mafia with both going with MM would have been easier. Unless mafia has a judge role and this was done in an attempt to clear FZ but that is very risky, doesn't make much sense, and highly unlikely for a role.

four players didn't vote I'd say at least one is mafia. I'll post more tomorrow but to burnt out right know. Right know I'm reading both Sorsha and FZ as not scum.

[S~V~S]

SVS - This is going to sound weird, but I have a question.

Were you secure in the knowledge that you wouldn't be killed on Night 1 or did you fear for your safety as the rest of us did?

I almost never "fear for my safety"; no guts no glory. But if you are asking if I had reason to think I was more likely to live that night than anyone else, no, I did not.

[FZ.]

Oops, LOL. Good job Sorsha. I'm sorry I made the lynch go to a tie. I still don't know if Floyd is civ, but I'm glad it went that way.
No, I'm not bad. Just didn't know where to put my vote.

Sorsha (or anyone) - Do you still see MM's day one vote for Turnip a distancing vote?

Also, I think FZ deserves a re-read after her pushing the tie that may have saved a baddie.

I guess I have it coming.
If I were bad (and nobody knows this because you haven't played with me as bad, so don't take my word for it), I would have been the second one to vote for MM after realizing Sorsha was on to him.

MetalMarsh89 has been lynched and was Piter De Vries.

It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to submit your PMs.

I see you MM

Damn, I swear to god, that the first thing that came to mind when I saw you dead was that MM killed you because when I started playing you two had this vendetta against each other. But then I thought you were over it, so it couldn't have been him.


Like I said, if I were bad, I would recognize MM was busted and would vote him early on, so I think it's also worth looking at his voters. But other than Floyd, none of them really look suspicious to me. Maybe SVS. All others feel civ to me.



Luke, why did you wait until after deadline to say that you thought Floyd was not bad? Before that, you just kept saying you had no idea who to vote for, and wanted to not influence the lynch. You said nothing about MM or Floyd before deadline.

[FZ.]

Is SVS the kind of player to buss a team mate if she thinks someone is on to them?

[MacDougall]

Is anyone not?

[Luke11646]

Oops, LOL. Good job Sorsha. I'm sorry I made the lynch go to a tie. I still don't know if Floyd is civ, but I'm glad it went that way.
No, I'm not bad. Just didn't know where to put my vote.

Sorsha (or anyone) - Do you still see MM's day one vote for Turnip a distancing vote?

Also, I think FZ deserves a re-read after her pushing the tie that may have saved a baddie.

I guess I have it coming.
If I were bad (and nobody knows this because you haven't played with me as bad, so don't take my word for it), I would have been the second one to vote for MM after realizing Sorsha was on to him.

MetalMarsh89 has been lynched and was Piter De Vries.

It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to submit your PMs.

I see you MM

Damn, I swear to god, that the first thing that came to mind when I saw you dead was that MM killed you because when I started playing you two had this vendetta against each other. But then I thought you were over it, so it couldn't have been him.


Like I said, if I were bad, I would recognize MM was busted and would vote him early on, so I think it's also worth looking at his voters. But other than Floyd, none of them really look suspicious to me. Maybe SVS. All others feel civ to me.



Luke, why did you wait until after deadline to say that you thought Floyd was not bad? Before that, you just kept saying you had no idea who to vote for, and wanted to not influence the lynch. You said nothing about MM or Floyd before deadline.

I re-read over the posts after I voted and that's what I came up with.

[FZ.]

Is anyone not?

You'd be surprised

[S~V~S]

Is SVS the kind of player to buss a team mate if she thinks someone is on to them?

Not that hard, Lol. And if I had been on that team I would have tried VERY hard to talk him out of a BR kill since I don't care for that kind of thing.

You keep making feints at me and keep not telling me why.

[FZ.]

Is SVS the kind of player to buss a team mate if she thinks someone is on to them?

Not that hard, Lol. And if I had been on that team I would have tried VERY hard to talk him out of a BR kill since I don't care for that kind of thing.

You keep making feints at me and keep not telling me why.

I'm not. I actually like this answer. That's how I play mafia. I'm not "making feints" at you. I see something, I ask, I decide if I like it or not.

[FZ.]

SVS, do you think Floyd is good?

[S~V~S]

How specific. Not particularly. What do you think of Eloh?

[FZ.]

How specific. Not particularly. What do you think of Eloh?

What? to the first question.

I think there's a good chance she's bad. I think her vote for Ninju was bad. I don't buy her reading everyone individually. It's just not something Eloh does, especially so early in the game. Even she admits it. But then there are moments when her defence makes me hesitate.

What do you think about TH?

[FZ.]

Wait, was it even a question? Maybe it was a comment on me being specific with you. I feel dumb, but I didn't get what you said

[S~V~S]

It was a comment; normally people ask "do you trust so and so", rather than specifically ," do you think so and so is good". It was a very specific question. Sorry, it was not intended to be confusing.

To me you were asking if I trusted Floyd, which I do not.

And no specific opinion on TH; I neither actively trust nor distrust him. I have found that one of the reasons TH generally has long legs in a game is that, IMO, he cultivates a middle of the road game. Once I had BTS with him I paid more attention to his game specifically. I am not actively alarmed at this time, but as always I am paying attention.

[FZ.]

It was a comment; normally people ask "do you trust so and so", rather than specifically ," do you think so and so is good". It was a very specific question. Sorry, it was not intended to be confusing.

To me you were asking if I trusted Floyd, which I do not.

And no specific opinion on TH; I neither actively trust nor distrust him. I have found that one of the reasons TH generally has long legs in a game is that, IMO, he cultivates a middle of the road game. Once I had BTS with him I paid more attention to his game specifically. I am not actively alarmed at this time, but as always I am paying attention.

Ah, okay. I was just wondering what you thought of those voting for Floyd, which would stem I guess, from what you thought about him.

Thanks for the answers. I have to go. Have a nice day

[S~V~S]

So you suspect the people who were on the same "save MM" train as you were on?

I doubt the whole bad team was on that wagon, at least one of this is likely to be a civ. We know MM wasn't lol.

[MacDougall]

SVS - This is going to sound weird, but I have a question.

Were you secure in the knowledge that you wouldn't be killed on Night 1 or did you fear for your safety as the rest of us did?

Matt, now that Metalmarsh is deceased can you please explain what your line of thought here was? I will note that he chose not to answer your question.

[MacDougall]

I'm just looking through Metalmarsh's ISO. It's really quite unusual how little he fought against his lynch.

Here are some of the more interesting posts:

Floyd's description of my posts thus far is pretty accurate, and I think he's behaved differently than in his first game on this site, and I mean that in a good way. I know I've voted him, but I can't really endorse lynching him.

Elohcin on the other hand, looks to be in the same boat as me, just not really caught up. I don't think there are anything in her posts to call her good or bad.

I feel like here we have him actually telling us that Floyd is not scum. I don't think Floyd has behaved differently at all so for him to say that he has is weird. I would be inclined to think that his Floyd read is in the case of Floyd being lynched (which to him would be a likely thing to have happen) and him flipping town, Marsh would be able to pull an I told you so. If Floyd was scum, and both were up for lynch with no decent town wagon I would bet cold hard cash that the scum would bus Floyd over Marsh.

Perhaps a little bit intentionally unclear in his read on Elo? If Elohcin was town it would probably be prudent for him to be more decisive on his read on her, yet he chooses to not participate in that line of thought at all. A slight negative read on Elo from this.

Marmot barely posted in this thread for days, and then suddenly appeared when people said it was suspicious. I don't think lynching him would be unfair - that's very odd behaviour for a marmot.

Do you have a problem with my impeccable timing?

Engaging in some bantz with Golden, which was a recurring theme.

Do you guys really think I'm bad? like really?

I don't think that this is quite what either of us said

But I do really think you could be bad. I just haven't figured you out yet.

Could be bad?

Well, anyone could be bad, whether you think it or not . :P

I'm busy knitting a stillsuit.

I'm calling bullsuit.

Also, votes are not changeable in this poll.

Or any other poll.

Oh hi Golden, long see, no time.

I see Golden put the last vote on Metalmarsh which at the time put him ahead on the vote count 5 to 3 and votes from Turnip Head and FZ tied it up. At face value this would appear to make Golden a hero of the lynch but considering the lynch almost got overtaken by the Floyd lynch at the last and these bantz posts rub me the wrong way, I'm going to have a bit more of a look at Golden's Metalmarsh posts after this.

Voted Turnip Head because I owe him one.

It would be so easy to say that Turnip Head tried to get Metalmarsh unlynched at the end of the day (because he did) and that this vote from Marsh on day 1 is quite clear scum distancing. A little too easy though. It'd be hard to argue that Turnip be put on trial hard for this but something about it feels wrong.

Conclusion:

Due to the fact that the lynch ended up tied I would say that it's unlikely there would be more than at most 1 scum on his bus, likely actually 0 and if there was it'd be someone who got their vote on him early and couldn't get it off, but even then that would just be something to consider later in the game because we can really only applaud them at face value. Out of all of them I'd say it'd be most likely to be S-V-S and I say that at risk of being accused of tunneling. I can't knock the fact that she voted on the lynch wagon of a scum and if she is civ I applaud her for it, just that if there were a bus on here it would be her and likely her alone.

It's probably prudent to point out that Marsh and I had quite a bit of interaction on day 1 and I think it reflects pretty well on me.

As for Turnip and FZ's votes. It's hard to look past them for certain. At 5-3 scum players embarking on a rescue mission is damn near suicide though, especially since they failed. I can't see Turnip or FZ as scum doing that without being sure they'd have the numbers to get it over the line and since there was no later votes on Marsh than there was on Floyd I find it hard to rationalise them as scum trying to save a scum buddy.

I feel like Metalmarsh has actually not communicated with most or all of the scum. I think we can probably make some headway looking for situations where Marsh appeared to actually avoid talking about or to players when he had cause to. This would bring bea and Elohcin heavily into calculations.

[Elohcin]

So I just wrote a paragraph about who I think is bad and why from looking at the poll. Then I remembered, its night...I am not posting this yet. So...I am saving it in a document and will share it with the morning sun.

[MacDougall]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

[Draconus]

Ugh, I'm sorry everyone. I wasn't thinking yesterday when I said I'd be back before the end of the Day period. My new house won't have internet until Wednesday

Great job on getting MM! For the record, I would have voted Floyd if I had internet. I still think he will be a good candidate for the next lynch.

[FZ.]

So you suspect the people who were on the same "save MM" train as you were on?

I doubt the whole bad team was on that wagon, at least one of this is likely to be a civ. We know MM wasn't lol.

I you want to call those votes for Floyd a save MM train, it's your prerogative. I honestly couldn't decide who was the better vote. To be fair, if not for Sorsha, MM wouldn't have been lynched. At least in my opinion. He wasn't contributing much, but it wasn't like he was on the chopping board without Sorsha's input.

It's not that I thought Sorsha was lying. I just thought she could have gotten something wrong and even if not, MM was basically outed by something that I thought was looked at badly here. Since my top suspect was Eloh, who wasn't going to be lynched, I went with Floyd who didn't put up any fight at all. I felt MM deserved a chance just for trying a little at the end, so I made it a tie and let the gods of mafia (AKA Epi) decide and hoped it would be a win win situation.


Turns out, I'm not sure about Floyd, and if he's not bad, then maybe one of his voters, other than MM, is bad. I know it's not me. I feel pretty good about Sig and Zebra, so it's down to TH. That's why I want to know people's opinion of him.

[FZ.]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

They do it because you can't win if you die here, so they prefer to survive instead of actually helping those left behind.


That said, every post Eloh makes sets of crazy alarm bells for me. Why even bother telling us she made a list? First of all, I doubt that if she's a civ, she's in any danger of being NK, because she's one of the top suspects.
Second, if you threat with a list, it might make the baddies afraid, and want to kill you. Why not just shut up and wait for the next day? Why let us know about it at all?

[Turnip Head]

I think it's possible that MM's teammates saw the writing on the wall and knew they had to give him up. I'm sure they paid close attention to Sorsha's posts, and who was following her lead.

I also think it's possible that Floyd is bad and that, given the choice between the two, the other teammates decided it was better to vote for MM over Floyd because of Sorsha's certainty. Especially considering that MM did not put up much of a fight.

[Elohcin]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

[FZ.]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

First of all, I can't look away from your avatar. Did you make that too? It's killing me

Now to the content itself, what does the first part have to do with Zebra 2?
Second, I have considered zebra working with MM, because as a baddie, I've always went for leading a lynch and not bandwagoning on one. You always look better. So it's an option. The thing is, she felt genuine to me. I guess I'll have to reread her.

[S~V~S]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

The way we used to play it, and some hosts still do, was that you had to be alive to win. So being alive pwns being helpful. It is just kind of ingrained in us. I have no problems talking in the night for the most part, but I have no problems with others not doing so if they prefer.

And yeah, you're tunneling. Or at least, you're wrong. It could well be as FZ says and none of the FLoyd voters were bad. But regardless of the affiliation of the others, I am a civ, and you can take that to the Guild Bank

[sig]

What is the likely hood that there are two mafia teams?
From reading Dune the Empire wasn't exactly good but with a smaller game I'm not sure there would be two teams.

I'll read over TH and Zebra I'm confident that FZ isn't on MM team. I doubt Zebra is she was the first vote on Floyd and had strong reasoning for her lynch imo.
TH reasoning isn't great but it isn't horribly for a floyd lynch it doesn't seem like a scum vote to save a teammate and I liked his last post and am inclined to agree.

So House Harkonnen had four people, know three, correc? With so few would they risk voting to save MM just in case he lynched and it put them in the spotlight? I'd think no, instead I'd think one scum joined MM wagon to get civ credit, one didn't vote, and one voted for another person. I'm much more inclined to think this after looking over the Floyd voters none seem that scummy to me the worst would be TH and he doesn't even look bad just worse then the others if that makes sense.

Thoughts on this and the potential two scum team?

I'd still like to see Floyd lynched tomorrow, but would be willing to vote elsewhere. The other players I'd like to lynch are Blooper and if not her then maybe Elohcin.

To a previous point about Blooper not voting Elohcin I saw Elohcin point out she wasn't on the poll so that point is void but I still find Bloopers reasons for voting to be weird, almost like she wanted to vote but avoid both wagons and randomly picked someone on weird reasoning. She didn't mention BK which wouldhave made more sense for her to lynch me but instead pointed to zebra who she also voted for.

[sig]

The thread at the longer version of this post so it is slightly shorter did an ISO of Zebra/Th reason for voting FLoyd

Zebras case was strong imo and earlier in the phase, pushed a Floyd lynch. Looks good

TH has some progression on Floyd he leans for a floyd lynch before he actually votes for floyd.
He has some suspicions of Floyd it appears weaker then Zebras, but interestingly enough he repeatedly said he didn't see the case on MM between the two wagons he remained consistent with his posts. Know out of the four people on Floyd's wagon he is the most likely to be mafia in my mind but the chance he is mafia is still very slim. He was outspoken that he didn't like the MM case but didn't try to convince others away from it, and followed through with his vote on floyd. Know if MM wasn't mafia this would be quite pingy he doesn't endorse the MM case but doesn't really fight it either he keeps an almost neutral position and if MM was to have flipped civ he could have linked back to his posts to defend himself. This is null though since MM was mafia and being on the same team as MM but not really supporting him would seem odd. He got attention with the way MM flipped but didn't do much to stop MM from flipping besides voting for floyd.

[bea]

I am the worlds suckiest person. I'm very sorry I missed the vote. My sunday got away from me in a storm of football and pizza.

I promise hosts and players that I will not let that happen again.

[Matt]

SVS - This is going to sound weird, but I have a question.

Were you secure in the knowledge that you wouldn't be killed on Night 1 or did you fear for your safety as the rest of us did?

Matt, now that Metalmarsh is deceased can you please explain what your line of thought here was? I will note that he chose not to answer your question.

The question was directed to SVS, and she answered...

I almost never "fear for my safety"; no guts no glory. But if you are asking if I had reason to think I was more likely to live that night than anyone else, no, I did not.

[MacDougall]

SVS - This is going to sound weird, but I have a question.

Were you secure in the knowledge that you wouldn't be killed on Night 1 or did you fear for your safety as the rest of us did?

Matt, now that Metalmarsh is deceased can you please explain what your line of thought here was? I will note that he chose not to answer your question.

The question was directed to SVS, and she answered...

I almost never "fear for my safety"; no guts no glory. But if you are asking if I had reason to think I was more likely to live that night than anyone else, no, I did not.

Oh my bad I was confused because he actually answered the question I think.

[sig]

Floyd
Not much here some things I find interesting he doesn't vote MM for preservation but because he posts are baseless.
He self voted after bea day 1 making it so he wasn't the first self voter know his choices for leading lynches were Elohcin or Zebra, Zebra flipped civ, so Elohcin could be potential teammate or neither could be teammate and he wanted to avoid both. With someone already self voting he could have done so in hopes to not garner attention over his vote and for his lack of contribution/input of the leading wagons.
He also asked Zebra why she was so motivated but doesn't answer her questions or really try to convince people not to vote for him.
Which leads me to think this lynch was scum/scum so a lose either way.

@Floyd some questions
What does your item do?
What do you think of Elohcin?
What do you think of MM flip?

Golden

So not much on Golden for his MM lynch, he likes Sorsha argument and dislikes some of MM's behavior.
The only thing that is giving me a small ping is this.

I felt pretty good about an MM vote anyway, but Sorsha's case makes me feel even more better (unlike Matt, I don't respect epi enough to use proper grammar when he is hosting).

I would also feel pretty good with a Floyd vote, which before the MM thing flared up was probably where my vote would have gone, so I like the way this day seems to be going.

Said he would feel good about either vote leaving his options open, leaving him to vote for either wagon if needed. This is slightly pingy but not that much, he ends the day putting MM further in the lead this could've been done to gain civ credit but I'm not sure.

I already had some suspicion from golden this didn't increase or decrease it. Would rather lynch someone else tomorrow.

@Golden what do you think of Floyd right know would you still consider voting him with MM flip?

Matt

The MM case, well, I don't think it's a case. If I'm wrong, I'll be very surprised, but if I'm right and Sorsha is on to him, she'll need a body guard during the night. Lynching him would educate us. Then again, maybe we shouldn't because it wouldn't be fair. And maybe, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Per the underline, I 100% agree with this. I feel like Sorsha knows something, and if SVS is right in that Sorsha never acts like this as a baddie, then I'm inclined to go that way.

Golden's point about MM not being around (despite him just showing up) even though he's been on the site is interesting too.

I'd rather vote for Turnip today, and I'm still lookin' at Golden and the Zeebs, but I want to see what happens when MM is lynched.

Metalmarsh

Linki - Luke, vote MM! Let's see what happens!

Was the fourth vote on MM this seems like a genuine reason for voting MM. Would not lynch based on this, slight civ read.

Sorsha
Strong town lean.

SVS
She believes sorsha and votes for MM based on this.
WIth MM flipping scum and SVS voting second this looks good for her.

So assuming one mafia team these are my reads, if there are two teams then these aren't people on MM's team.

for the MM voters from most to least suspicious. As off right know I'd only like to lynch Floyd, wouldn't lynch SVS or Sorsha this phase. Would most likely not lynch Golden or Matt today.
1.Floyd
2. Golden
3. Matt
4. SVS
5. Sorsha

The non voters
Banana
Bea
Draconus
Mac

Banana

Dam it I just missed out on the vote ;-;

no vote from bea, draconus, banana...

I really am ok with this however it goes.

@banana - who would you have voted for?

Honestly I have no idea since I was gonna quickly read over the conversation since I haven't been active. But When I saw that it was the last min to vote I would had voted Metal only because his name was closet ti the top on the poll

So he missed both days of voting.
Know the second post of course he would say MM since MM fliped mafia. The reasoning he gives seems so weak that it appears to be true in fact when I was first reading it I accepted it.
Though. MM flipped mafia this makes him look slightly clean while at the same time not making him look scummy for saying he would lynch MM when he didn't. Banana also missed the vote by such a small margin could he have been in BTSC saw them telling him to vote last minute but came to late?
This all depends on if we believe he really missed the vote and if he would have really voted for MM. Even missing the vote could've been done on purpose better a warning and leaving it to a tie then a suspicious last minute vote.

Could lynch but would prefer not to if he starts posting more, if he doesn't then I'd be fine with lynching him.

Bea
If lynching a non voter she'd be at the bottom. I'm just tone reading her as town.

Draconus

Why did you vote for me what was your ping?
Do you plan to vote for Floyd today?
On MM alone this post makes me think he isn't scum. Still have an ever so small scum ping on him though.

Ugh, I'm sorry everyone. I wasn't thinking yesterday when I said I'd be back before the end of the Day period. My new house won't have internet until Wednesday

Great job on getting MM! For the record, I would have voted Floyd if I had internet. I still think he will be a good candidate for the next lynch.

Mac

Didn't vote at all, didn't comment on it. No information regarding the MM lynch.

Out of these four based on MM I'd rather not lynch any today. If I had to pick one though I'd go with Banana

I'll be back later with my reads on the players who voted elsewhere. Top two lynches are
Floyd
Blooper

[Golden]

What is the likely hood that there are two mafia teams?

Zero

[Golden]

I felt pretty good about an MM vote anyway, but Sorsha's case makes me feel even more better (unlike Matt, I don't respect epi enough to use proper grammar when he is hosting).

I would also feel pretty good with a Floyd vote, which before the MM thing flared up was probably where my vote would have gone, so I like the way this day seems to be going.

Said he would feel good about either vote leaving his options open, leaving him to vote for either wagon if needed. This is slightly pingy but not that much, he ends the day putting MM further in the lead this could've been done to gain civ credit but I'm not sure.

I already had some suspicion from golden this didn't increase or decrease it. Would rather lynch someone else tomorrow.

@Golden what do you think of Floyd right know would you still consider voting him with MM flip?

Very quickly.

If not for Sorsha, I probably would have voted Floyd. I was keeping both options open because I actually intended to create some late interest and do something along the lines of what FZ did - tie it up and see what people after me did. I thought it would be a good opportunity to learn. As Floyd was behind at the time, he was the likelier candidate. I went MM and abandoned that plan only because Sorsha was very convincing.

In that sense, Mac has talked about looking like the 'hero of the lynch', but I only look like the hero of the lynch because of what came after me. I didn't know or expect a tie (in fact, after what Sorsha said, I expected all the votes after me to come in on MM too). None of these things are necessarily points in favour of me being civ, but they are the truth.

As for still considering voting Floyd... yes, he will still be on my radar for a vote today, although others will be too. The vote gave us stuff to work with.

[MacDougall]

The way those votes struck me was this; one of the two of you, possibly both, are bad. And the lynch was tied between a baddie & a civvie. And the self voters did not want to vote for a teammate, and they did not want to be the tie breaker final vote on a civ. I have done similar things when bad, tangent voting, and self voting is a tangent vote.

I could totally be wrong, but that was how it struck me at the time.

I'm asking you SVS - I don't care about other people's opinions righ now. Your post convinced me we are on the same side. I care what you think of me.

Which S-V-S post convinced you she was a civ bea?

Nope. Because I don't have bts with anyone.

and also fyi - other's that have played with me can contradict me if they think I'm misrepresenting myself, but I don't self vote often. I've only done it if I literally don't know what's going on in the thread and I can't make a decision. I've only ever done it day one. It's something I reserve for when I feel even random feels like I could hurt someone.

I adore Floyd and we've had some completely nongame related conversations, but IDK why he did what he did. I look forward to the day we are teammates, but today is not that day.

this was my respnose to that quote.

I'm sorry I effed it all up.

I'm sorry if I was redundent in explanation.

There is a little bit of flavour to this one. Rather than outwardly saying you aren't scum you just mention that you aren't teammates.

Bea can you please show me other examples where you've self voted on day 1 as a civ?

[MacDougall]

I think it's possible that MM's teammates saw the writing on the wall and knew they had to give him up. I'm sure they paid close attention to Sorsha's posts, and who was following her lead.

I also think it's possible that Floyd is bad and that, given the choice between the two, the other teammates decided it was better to vote for MM over Floyd because of Sorsha's certainty. Especially considering that MM did not put up much of a fight.

I don't think you really believe this.

[TheFloyd73]

@Floyd some questions
What does your item do?
What do you think of Elohcin?
What do you think of MM flip?

If you're referring to the poll where we recieves that stuff on Day 0, I got a poison snooper. It pretty much protects me from being poisoned.
On Elo, I don't find him/her either civ or Mafia. They're observant, ask I'll keep a close look on them. I'm interested as to what this "paragraph" will state.
All I can say about the MM lynch is that I'm lucky that I won the coin toss (or however they decide these ties).

[MacDougall]

I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

The way we used to play it, and some hosts still do, was that you had to be alive to win. So being alive pwns being helpful. It is just kind of ingrained in us. I have no problems talking in the night for the most part, but I have no problems with others not doing so if they prefer.

And yeah, you're tunneling. Or at least, you're wrong. It could well be as FZ says and none of the FLoyd voters were bad. But regardless of the affiliation of the others, I am a civ, and you can take that to the Guild Bank

I'm not tunneling, truly. I am just trying to rationalise how and why it would be a bus. I don't think it was and I can't see how a civ minded person would think it was. If there is scum on the wagon it would have been from an early vote getting stuck, and you fit that bill better than others. I think it's more likely that the entire wagon is civs, because there are only 5 on there. I'm not used to seeing scum busses that don't succeed overhwhelmingly. That's why I'm also inclined to think that the last two Floyd votes were townies. When scum make actions around votes they need to be efficient and successful. This lynch doesn't feel scum influenced at all.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Epignosis]

You have one hour to submit your PMs.

[Draconus]

Responding to Sig: I voted for you because of something that you said early on. I quoted it and asked you a question about it that you never responded to. I have since let that go because of better pings. I plan on either voting for Eloh or Floyd in the next Day. I need to do more reading to decide for sure, though.

Why does my "Great job" comment re: MM ping you?

Wish I could stick around, but I'm on borrowed time and... internet

[MacDougall]

Caught up, at least with reading. Nothing thorough.

Welp, rest in peace BR.

I'm looking at Floyd and Blooper right now. I think Dracondevin made an astute observation about Floyd's vote and subsequent explanation so I want to hear Floyd's response. And I think Blooper is doing that pop-in pop-out thing where she just comments on the thread goings-on and scrams. Her zebra vote didn't feel genuine to me.

This is...how I play all the time?

Okay, so I haven't finished catching up. I still have to read all of page 16, but I have spent a good amount of time this afternoon reading players individually. I'm a pretty easily convinced mafia player so I decided that reading players individually and forming my own opinion for today would be better than reading the last page of the thread and listening to others' opinions. Anyway....all this to say, I am voting for niju. Her lack of input pings me. Although she is normally a low poster, she is still a helpful, influential low poster. The way she is acting now seems like her baddie self. Niju

My input has been pretty lacking in this game, I agree. I don't agree that I'm influential - I feel, by and large, that my posts go ignored unless they're used as fodder for lynching me (which may be a result of most of my posts' being recaps for the benefit of gathering my thoughts, but still). This suspicion appears contrived.

There are tons of things to talk about, but I would like to make dinner and I've given myself an hour limit for catch-up and posting, and that hour is running out. I want to vote for Eloh (and of course that looks NO-U'ey as hell after she votes me :P ) But her name has been thrown around by several people without much action. I feel like her posts have been snippier in nature than I remember in...well, any game, really, but it doesn't read civ to me (it could be a result of being sick, so sorry if it's that!). There's a gut feeling I can't shake about her, and I've felt like that since this post, where she latches quickly onto what might become a Zebra train but lets it fade away into nothingness and doesn't vote.

So, I'm voting Eloh. Now, time to experiment with quinoa for the first time ever!

This post is a little bit of Gold. Niju ended the day with the only vote on Eloh and Eloh ended the day with the only vote on Niju. Neither reasons look great.

Elohcin's vote looks bad because it seems to me to be scum vote 101. It could easily be scum distancing from another scum, or voting on a wagon that she knows is not going to take off.

Niju's vote reason is just totally weird. Snippier in nature?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is two scum distancing from one another.

[Golden]

@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

[MacDougall]

@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

Niju tried to vote for her though right?

[Golden]

@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

Niju tried to vote for her though right?

Yes, but if they were teammates together do you think ninja would have had more awareness that she wasn't on the poll and not made that post, or do you think the 'trying to vote for her' would have been part of the ruse?