motel room wrote:Fuzz, the posts I quoted were before and during you casting the vote. Like remember Long Con's eventual vote for Sig early on where he had to backpedal the Bea thing and find a more compelling reason to place his final vote? Reminds me of that. Too-heavy display of reasoning.
I wasn't around then and haven't read it. My vote was more complex than a simple "He said X, X is scum talk, lynch him" so that's why I had exposition about my vote. Would you have preferred me gloss over my reasoning?
MM as I've said all game I have done scummy things. Soft defense of Mac, illogical reasons for not voting Floyd, I'm aware of this. There is no defense to what I did, simply put. What could I possibly say that would make me look better with those moves?
Eh don't worry, he flipped scum. I was concerned you were fluffing "sensible" reasoning to fall back on in case he flipped town.
MovingPictures07 wrote:If somehow Sloonei and I receive all Night PMs within the next couple of hours and you all are OK with it, we will proceed to Day 12 and I will extend that period to 72 hours.
I understand moving the game along, but I'm against this.
Fine with me, just note that Night 11 will last 23 hours, and Day 12 will last 48 hours as normal.
motel room wrote:Fuzz, the posts I quoted were before and during you casting the vote. Like remember Long Con's eventual vote for Sig early on where he had to backpedal the Bea thing and find a more compelling reason to place his final vote? Reminds me of that. Too-heavy display of reasoning.
I wasn't around then and haven't read it. My vote was more complex than a simple "He said X, X is scum talk, lynch him" so that's why I had exposition about my vote. Would you have preferred me gloss over my reasoning?
MM as I've said all game I have done scummy things. Soft defense of Mac, illogical reasons for not voting Floyd, I'm aware of this. There is no defense to what I did, simply put. What could I possibly say that would make me look better with those moves?
Oh damn, my vote for Choutas yesterday looks a lot worse now.
Now you can't accuse me of this because I've already admitted it. :P
By the way, while I'm gloating already, your vote is a one-of off-wagon vote Metalmarsh. The day we lynched scum. Looks like you missed out on all those brownie points, shame.
RadicalFuzz wrote:Excuse me, I'll just be over here gloating in the corner.
Did anyone disagree with you?
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
RadicalFuzz wrote:By the way, while I'm gloating already, your vote is a one-of off-wagon vote Metalmarsh. The day we lynched scum. Looks like you missed out on all those brownie points, shame.
If there was a close lynch between someone else, I would have tied it. A unanimous lynch is a different story. Again, you've misunderstood me.
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Day 6 was when Fuzz started asking players to read him scum. The timing of that is convenient, fwiw.
In the most technical sense this is true, but he actually was challenging other players on their town reads of him as early as Day 4 with JJJ.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I disagree in that it is automatically a savejob if Bullzeye is mafia. I got it wrong. That doesn't mean I am mafia, it just means I make mistakes.
For what it's worth, you did not make this observation in the Day 9 lynch, when Ricochet broke a tie and helped lynch a civilian sig. Almost the exact same scenario, just between RadicalFuzz and sig instead of Choutas and Bullzeye.
Regarding the second part of your post, good point. The difference for me is that I think motel room is likely bad, whereas I had a gut read on Fuzz as civ. However, you're correct that I may be unfairly giving Rico a pass. I'll put him high up on my To Read list.
More importantly to me, the first part: MM, this post was about motel room, not Bullzeye. I'm glad I got to this after today's result, though, because I think you confusing the two of them looks pretty weird given your votes the past 2 days.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Diiny wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Diiny wrote:Who are you voting, rico?
Tell me what you think of this radfuzz bullzeye thing too
Come lynch RadicalFuzz with me.
Is this to rico or me?
either way: why not bullzye; why not wilgy?
I don't agree with the case on DrWilgy.
I'm not opposed to lynching Bullzeye. He's my second option.
But you're asking Rico what he thinks of RadicalFuzz/Bullzeye. I want to know what you think.
Tinfoil Russti says: MM says he wasn't against a Bullzeye lynch, but still stopped a potential Bullzeye lynch yesterday in favor of Choutas and tried to change to a Fuzz lynch today. Based on the counts we have, if MM had somehow managed a CFD onto Fuzz today and Fuzz is good, civs cannot win this game. Baddies potentially could if they managed to drug and/or kill the SK, even if some or all of them got outed in the play. And speaking of motel room:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:When I say "removes one townie from the game" I refer to him being literal dead weight. If it's Lynch-or-Lose and one civilian isn't willing to cooperate, then that's just Lose. This is, assuming, that my benefit of the doubt that he's attempting to win is unfounded.
Lynching a townie in a potential LyLo scenario fixes exactly zero problems -- indeed it is the worst possible outcome.
You've just given a justification for lynching a townie i.e. Mac and Sorsha.
And motel room!
Ricochet wrote:Remember who proposed liability lynches and lynches for sake of info?
Mac
But also motel room!
Diiny wrote:I don't think that's fuzz's reasoning here. There's no info to be gained. I really don't understand fuzz's reasoning here.
But motel room did the same thing while not saying anything about gaining info from it!
Seriously, why am I the only person talking about the fact that motel room said lynching civs for literally no reason is ok?!?!?!?!?! This is getting extremely frustrating.
motel room wrote:woken up specifically on my day off for this.
"woken" up, as opposed to "woke"? Who woke you?
motel room wrote:I know there has been chatter about these since but yes eww these read as trying really hard to rationalise the appearance of your vote Fuzz.
And oh look, motel room throwing shade at Fuzz. Hmm...
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
Not necessarily, but it's nice to be right after screwing the pooch the last two times scum was lynched.
"Mac looks a bit better after that outburst, I think"
*Engage in awkward banter*
Scum.
"I know Floyd looks objectively bad, but I'm not voting him due to personal illogical reasons"
*Two days late*
Scum.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:By the way, while I'm gloating already, your vote is a one-of off-wagon vote Metalmarsh. The day we lynched scum. Looks like you missed out on all those brownie points, shame.
If there was a close lynch between someone else, I would have tied it. A unanimous lynch is a different story. Again, you've misunderstood me.
So, just to make sure that I don't misunderstand you, you would've tied the vote if you could've?
And to be abundantly clear the quote I have below, about not being able to declare a winner until the clock hits zero, is what I was referring to with the one-of off-wagon vote comment. After the clock hit zero and town won, you were officially on an off-wagon by yourself.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:His desire has amounted to "vote RadicalFuzz with me" so pardon me if I'm not impressed.
If one vote to four at 45 minutes till deadline isn't an off-wagon, then at what point does it become one?
When the lynch is over and the votes are official. You can't declare a winner until the clock hits zero.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:By the way, while I'm gloating already, your vote is a one-of off-wagon vote Metalmarsh. The day we lynched scum. Looks like you missed out on all those brownie points, shame.
If there was a close lynch between someone else, I would have tied it. A unanimous lynch is a different story. Again, you've misunderstood me.
So, just to make sure that I don't misunderstand you, you would've tied the vote if you could've?
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:His desire has amounted to "vote RadicalFuzz with me" so pardon me if I'm not impressed.
If one vote to four at 45 minutes till deadline isn't an off-wagon, then at what point does it become one?
When the lynch is over and the votes are official. You can't declare a winner until the clock hits zero.
I've only been talking about it for....holy shit, 4+ days now....but I'm so glad someone's finally interested that I'll oblige:
Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:I'm happy to see JJJ lynched to remove the doubt but I think he did the same thing I did w/r/t mac.
motel room wrote:I actually feel like JJJ and Floyd will flip town.
Please esplain.
Which part? I wont be surprised if they were both town, but I'm not sold so hard as to defend them and they are both potential distractions now at this point and if not lynched now will probably ride on as lynch contenders until the end of the game is all.
To be more precise: esplain the part where you think JJJ will flip town, but you're happy to remove the doubt by lynching him. I recall Mac saying something very similar, I think about Sorsha. (Would quote, but have you seen that dude's post history?)
His response is below. (I decided against clipping, since I think the whole thing is relevant. Sorry for the big post.)
Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:To be more precise: esplain the part where you think JJJ will flip town, but you're happy to remove the doubt by lynching him. I recall Mac saying something very similar, I think about Sorsha. (Would quote, but have you seen that dude's post history?)
Nah you should quote it cos I don't like you dropping into the thread after no content and trying to drum up shit without context.
I'm not sure how I can further explain it. I think JJJ may be town and made the same mistaken judgement on mac as I did. I'm not confident enough to fight his lynch and can see benefit from him as a lynch contender being removed from further chatter. He has even said the same thing himself. Why is me thinking this so suspicious to you, specifically?
MacDougall wrote:I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.
Fine. Found it. Not sure why you felt the need to have me do that. (It's near the top of page 9 of his post history, btw.)
This response is terrible imo. You're really debating the point that Mac expressed a willingness to vote Sorsha even if she was civ? It's right there in the thread! And then you say I'm "trying to drum up shit" when, again, Mac's point was well documented as a major point of suspicion that Day.
Finally, you double down on your "JJJ is civ, but we should still lynch him anyway" idea. It's this simple: lynching civs is NOT worth it. We're losing! Someone (Rico?) said we have 4 days to get at least one baddie, or game over. Wasting one of those days lynching someone you think is good should be repulsive to you. At least Mac made up some bullshit about wanting info! You don't even say we'd get anything out of JJJ being lynched. You want someone you say is civvie to die so that we can stop discussing him as a potential lynch candidate??? The POINT of the game is to discuss people as potential lynch candidates!
I am overreacting, or is this the least civ mindset all game? I'm down to vote motel room again, with Matt this time. I'm more sure about him than JJJ.
Great. Yes I knew what you were referring to, what I objected to was you coming in out of nowhere and pretending to be certain about something. Going and actually doing it now seems like busywork but ok do you see the difference between what I'm suggesting and what Mac was suggesting? Mac thinks lynching Sorsha will leave behind all these clues he's super eager to get into, I'm suggesting lynching JJJ crosses him off the list the end. No more bickering about whether he's scum or town or what because look it's happening again today "JJJ should still be on the table for a lynch", "what do we think about JJJ?" over and over.
I'm not debating anything about Mac's Sorsha thing, not sure why you think that.
"Pretending to be certain" about verifiable facts? I wasn't pretending, I was certain. I do see the difference, and Mac's reason is actually BETTER than your reason. Which is major point against you.
Day 1 - civ mislynch
Day 2 - ultimately deflated third wagon
Day 3 - second wagon (spoilers: civ wagon)
Day 4 - out of orbit banter civ voter
Day 5 - technical first wagon
Day 6 - no vote
Day 7 - civ mislynch
Day 8 - confirmed baddie
Day 9 - second wagon
Day 10 - out of orbit vote
Day 11 - second wagon
Wilgy
Day 1 - civ mislynch
Day 2 - confirmed baddie
Day 3 - civ mislynch wagon
Day 4 - civ second wagon
Day 5 - out of orbit civ voter
Day 6 - confirmed baddie
Day 7 - out of orbit civ voter
Day 8 - second wagon, first wagon was confirmed baddie
Day 9 - civ mislynch
Day 10 - civ mislynch, second wagon was confirmed baddie
JJJ
Day 1 - secondary wagon
Day 2 - confirmed baddie
Day 3 - second wagon (spoilers: civ wagon)
Day 4 - second wagon
Day 5 - technical first wagon
Day 6 - second wagon, counterwagon to confirmed baddie
Day 7 - civ mislynch
Day 8 - confirmed baddie, decisive vote
Day 9 - second wagon
Day 10 - vote on baddie, second wagon
Day 11 - confirmed baddie
MM
Day 1 - secondary wagon
Day 2 - out of orbit civ voter
Day 3 - no vote
Day 4 - out of orbit vote
Day 5 - technicaly first wagon
Day 6 - confirmed baddie
Day 7 - civ mislynch
Day 8 - third wagon
Day 9 - second wagon
Day 10 - civ mislynch, decisive vote
Day 11 - solitary vote
motel
Day 1 - secondary wagon
Day 2 - confirmed baddie
Day 3 - out of orbit vote
Day 4 - civ mislynch
Day 5 - technical first wagon
Day 6 - second wagon, counterwagon to confirmed baddie
Day 7 - civ mislynch
Day 8 - third wagon
Day 9 - civ mislynch
Day 10 - second wagon, on baddie
Day 11 - confirmed baddie
Fuzz
Day 1 - none
Day 2 - none
Day 3 - none
Day 4 - out of orbit vote
Day 5 - technical first wagon
Day 6 - out of orbit vote
Day 7 - out of orbit vote
Day 8 - out of orbit vote
Day 9 - civ mislynch
Day 10 - civ mislynch
Day 11 - confirmed baddie
Russ
Day 1 - out of orbit vote
Day 2 - confirmed baddie
Day 3 - third wagon
Day 4 - civ mislynch
Day 5 - technical first wagon
Day 6 - confirmed baddie
Day 7 - civ mislynch
Day 8 - third wagon...ish
Day 9 - out of orbit vote
Day 10 - out of orbit vote
Day 11 - confirmed baddie
So I went back to read Wilgy expecting to basically see a whole lot of nothing. My gut read of him said it was a guy who tried really hard to start the game (see: ACEO campaign) and has been dropping off steadily since. I was pleasantly surprised, though. He's contributed a lot more substantive content than I thought.
I do see a few points against him, most of which have been brought up already:
- As Diiny mentioned (yesterday?), he has been fairly floppy floppy on RadicalFuzz, even though they read each other well.
- He was mentioned a lot by baddies (JJJ covered this in his scum spew analysis).
- He has posted large graphs and charts with little analysis to accompany them. (A number of people have discussed this already.)
Things I personally don't like are his declining contributions the past Day period or two, and the fact that he keeps asking people to infodump. I'm given to understand that info is cool on RYM, but RadicalFuzz has said that Wilgy knows the rules here. He seems determined to stretch them to their limit.
I actually feel moderately positive on Wilgy now, despite the shade he's getting. I don't really see him as a super likely SK either, since he's taken enough hard stances (Choutas and bcornett) to get some negative attention.
That's it for me tonight. I'll get to Diiny tomorrow to firm up my read on him.
I'm glad the Halloween thing worked out, but I owe you guys more advance notice on this since it won't be a similar situation (I'm the only one busy):
My girlfriend is visiting me this weekend, and I'm planning on proposing to her. I basically want her weekend to be perfect, so it's more likely than not that I'll have little to no participation from Friday evening to sometime Monday (she leaves Monday morning, but I work during the day). I apologize in advance that I'll be gone during such an important time in such an intense game. However, I (hopefully) only get one chance to get this proposal right. That just has to be my priority, so as much as it sucks for you guys, you should fully expect me to do a VERY quick read on Sunday and basically drive-by vote.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
Wilgy, the last few flips have only been making J look better and better. Why is he scum now, despite being 55% before?
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
I stated that when I was pretty sure Mac was scum, but hadn't flipped yet. I didn't want to call JJJ a teammate pre flip, but his defense of Mac had me put him on my baddie dar.
The thing is, I don't think he is Mafia. I think he's SK. I haven't had the time to look a current relationships, or judge who the remaining baddies are.
Linki: oh...
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:56 pm
@DrWilgy don't post any more k
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
Did willy really go offline and leave that at that?
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy's vote is an enigma of science. Philosophers are known to throw their tomes across the auditorium in a fit of frustration after failing to solve its mystery.
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:50 pm
WTF was up with Wilgy's entire deal?
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
"I'm not 100% sure that Diiny isn't the last scum playing the best scum game of anyone's career " --Job "sleepystalinist" May
"The serial killer has made it clear that he doesn't want to win this game at all and is instead interested in killing town reads exclusively. Whoever he is, he has no idea what he's doing and is probably going to blow the game for himself." --JaggedJimmyJay
Lemme have it Wilgy. I need to see that you really have investment in reading me as the SK.
All: the progression of Day 11 might be especially conducive to analysis. The mafia team probably expected DrWilgy (whether on their team or not) to be lynched before today's late mass-move to Bullzeye.
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
Russtifinko wrote:So I went back to read Wilgy expecting to basically see a whole lot of nothing. My gut read of him said it was a guy who tried really hard to start the game (see: ACEO campaign) and has been dropping off steadily since. I was pleasantly surprised, though. He's contributed a lot more substantive content than I thought.
I do see a few points against him, most of which have been brought up already:
- As Diiny mentioned (yesterday?), he has been fairly floppy floppy on RadicalFuzz, even though they read each other well.
- He was mentioned a lot by baddies (JJJ covered this in his scum spew analysis).
- He has posted large graphs and charts with little analysis to accompany them. (A number of people have discussed this already.)
Things I personally don't like are his declining contributions the past Day period or two, and the fact that he keeps asking people to infodump. I'm given to understand that info is cool on RYM, but RadicalFuzz has said that Wilgy knows the rules here. He seems determined to stretch them to their limit.
I actually feel moderately positive on Wilgy now, despite the shade he's getting. I don't really see him as a super likely SK either, since he's taken enough hard stances (Choutas and bcornett) to get some negative attention.
The case against him has been about things that other people have said (MacDougall mainly), not what he's said.
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
Diiny wrote:How do you know it's a misconception?????
I am confused as to how serious this is, but I'll attempt to answer it.
I know it's a misconception because I know that I don't necessarily read Wilgy that well and have said as much. Other people are saying that I do read Wilgy extremely well. That's not true, therefore a misconception? It's wrong, either way, is my point. We play off each other very well, yes, but interestingly enough that doesn't include the ability to read him, at least from my end.
Fiddler on the Roof
" --Job "sleepystalinist" May
[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]
