Dune [ENDGAME]

#1001

Matt F wrote:
sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?
What do you think of FZ and Turnip? Have you already said?

How about this, do you think Elohcin knew that Niju would be taken off the poll today? Elohcin was taken off the poll the day before right?

I noticed Harkonnen killed again. So the other factions aren't killing (as of yet).

#1002

bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but it stands out to me.
Why do you think Sorsha has a lie detector role?

Obviously she learned something N1 that lead her to D2, but there are all sorts of roles that could gain "info." Allignement checks and other things - that could have given her info too. Jumping right to lie detector feels oddly specific just like your question to svs felt oddly specific.

A post of Sorsha's made towards the host lead me to believe her role was lie detect, after we all learned she has an info role of some kind. Don't take my word for it, ISO Sorsha.

S~V~S wrote:It is possible. Although in Mafia structure, the Emperor could be another baddie, since he was against both Atreides & Harkonnen. It actually makes more sense, now that I am thinking about it, for him to be bad than for him to be indy. Although both night kills were house Harkonnen. Gah.

I am going to skate on thin ice here and hope not to annoy Skeletor~ based on his role, and based on something I know about my own role, , and based on my knowledge of the book, I think MMs power was as a poisoner. Based on my knowledge of Metalmarsh, I would not be at all surprised if he tried to poison me Night One. And I think Matt knew about it, based on his question to me about feeling safe. And I think he is target painting with both of those questions, the one to me and the one to Sorsha. I had not seen that question he posed to Sorsha, I am glad you pointed it out Bea. One question of that nature, OK, but two?

I overslept and will have to devote time to the other game when I get home tonight, so I am going to vote now.

*Votes Matt F*

For real? There is a day and a half to go, the vote is unchangeable, and you don't give me a chance to defend? I noticed you did the same exact thing to MM, vote him without a chance to defend. In his case, good job, in mine, not so much. Either way, hopefully this isn't a recurring pattern the rest of the game where SVS just plops her vote down before asking her accused a single question.

The comment towards Sorsha about my quotes was to get Golden off my back. Again, if you read all of Sorsha's posts, you might see something that I saw and also assume lie detect. Also, did I sign up for The Twilight Zone Mafia? Where every obvious thing I say gets funny looks and suspicions from players??? First from Golden and Mac, now SVS.

As for my question to SVS, it was a question I was curious about and wanted to get an answer. That you believe you suddenly have me pegged as Indy or baddie or good town aligned indy or EVEN town...simply from that question (which I admitted was weird when I asked it)...boggles my mind.

And again - To anyone who has played an Epignosis game (and I'm sure several of you have), please answer - Does he include failed NK attempts in his night posts? If he DOES, then hopefully we can get past this silly "Matt tried to kill/poison/whatever SVS and then asked her about it straight up in the thread". I mean, c'mon, I know I'm not the best player, but really now?

#1003

bea wrote:TH said he remembered me doing it as a civ and I welcome svs, golden and sorsha to chime in their two cents on the matter as well.

Long story short. I know I've done it and been civ. No I can't provide an example. I know this doesn't help my case. It is what it is.

I really can't remember you self voting any other time, so I concur that it's very rare. I don't see it specifically as a sign that you are bad (or that you are civ).

#1004

bea wrote:
Golden wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?
If I hadn't voted sig, and I had a binary choice between voting either zebra or voting mac, I would choose to vote zebra. I could not be induced to vote mac today.

Zebra isn't at the top of my list though. And I'd rather not assume sig must be good... he could still be bad, despite the three votes he already has.
If you didn't have a binary choice between zebra and mac who would you have maybe thought about voting if you hadn't voted sig?

With Ninja off the poll, I'm not sure who my first choice would have been. Probably TH, although it almost seems too obvious, but he and MM have been so linked the entire game. I hadn't decided for sure.

My point in terms of the binary choice between zebra and mac is... I think zebra is wrong.

#1005

bea wrote:
MacDougall wrote:It's not tied to the emoticon
more blank stares then. I thought it was completely tied to the win con. It was when both you and golden said he freeked out by the emoticon that I thought that.

I know my win con it's for Harrkeranourous to be dead.

I assume that everyone else is civ alligned till they prove me otherwise.

Bea, for me that convo was entirely the win con (the fact it appeared he didn't have the same as me) and nothing to do with emoticons or anything.

#1006

I'm not happy with SVS' vote one bit. If Sig has 3 votes, and we believe he's a civ, those of us who actually don't want a civ lynched should decide together who to vote for, so Sig doesn't end up being lynched.

SVS, why did you vote so early? And why didn't you talk about it with anyone?
In addition, you were really sure Eloh was bad. What happened to that? I didn't see you say you felt better about her.

Zebra, what happened to your Golden suspicion?
Am I the only one who feels that Zebra's back and forth with Mac as well as her accusations of Eloh a little forced? It's like she's trying too hard to look like she did as zebra 1. but something isn't coming through as she did then.

#1007

I agree with you FZ. I think Zebra sounds disingenuous. I fear TH is stalling as well on the matter of Zebra and if Zebra turns out to be bad, I think TH may be the next best lynch.

#1008

FZ. wrote: Zebra, what happened to your Golden suspicion?

You're kidding, right? Let me show you what happened to it. Golden

FZ. wrote:Am I the only one who feels that Zebra's back and forth with Mac as well as her accusations of Eloh a little forced? It's like she's trying too hard to look like she did as zebra 1. but something isn't coming through as she did then.

At least I have something to work with now, but it's not much more than a vibe read that relies on a hypothetical.

#1009

Gimme your thoughts on sig Zebra. A quick scan doesn't doesn't show anything from you toDay, and I think FZ *just* made a great point about not voting impulsively today

#1010

Elohcin wrote:I agree with you FZ. I think Zebra sounds disingenuous. I fear TH is stalling as well on the matter of Zebra and if Zebra turns out to be bad, I think TH may be the next best lynch.

I'm not stalling on anything, I said I would try to make an informed opinion about Zebra and I'm going to do that when I have time to sit down and consider her posts and your case. I have been focusing on my own suspicions because they're what have stood out to me personally.

#1011

Turnip Head wrote:Gimme your thoughts on sig Zebra. A quick scan doesn't doesn't show anything from you toDay, and I think FZ *just* made a great point about not voting impulsively today

sig is civ in this game. 90%. The votes on him, as I said before, were obviously not chosen by the voters. We could speculate about what exactly happened all day but the main point is that none of the people that voted for him actually think he's bad here.

#1012

There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.

#1013

Golden wrote:Host - what is the correct interplay/interpretation between these two rules?

Epignosis wrote:The Rules

3. No role outing of yourself or anyone else.

14. This is a closed setup. Any claims a player posts in the thread will not be confirmed or contradicted by the host.
I assume this means, for instance, I could not claim to be "Gurney Halleck" (using that because we know its zebra 1.0) but I might be able to claim other things such as my ability or win con?

You can't say, "I'm Gurney Halleck" or "I found out Epignosis is Mafia." Claims other than that are fair and subject to rule 14.

#1014

a2thezebra wrote:There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.

I'm sure there isn't, you've suspected me all game.

However, I am House Atriedes (thanks for clarifying what can be claimed epi), I've already provided plenty of evidence that I have the same win con as zebra 1.0, and your vote for me will not help the civilians win the game.

#1015

I found out Epignosis is Mafia.

Just kidding, I'm House Fremen.

#1016

Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.
I'm sure there isn't, you've suspected me all game.

However, I am House Atriedes (thanks for clarifying what can be claimed epi), I've already provided plenty of evidence that I have the same win con as zebra 1.0, and your vote for me will not help the civilians win the game.

Interesting. Matt, Mac, do you care to share what house you belong to?

#1017

SVS is voting Matt I see her reasons but I don't agree with them. B
esides that my opinions are much the same as the ones I made the last night phase. I'll look over Drac and BK could there be some sort of connection we are missing.

#1018

BK 16 posts, lasgun. Not much content here or many reads.

Drac 13 posts Gom Jabber, same as BK read wise.

So this could have something to do with their items, but I think it is more the lack of context. I would from these two kills they are targeting people who haven't posted much so won't lead back to them.

Know for the item argument they know now what the lasgun is but when BK was killed they didn't.
I guess it depends what the Gom Jabber does but I'm thinking they are going after potentially good items and low posters, this is a combination of the two based around the two kills.

What does everyone think of Floyd right know? Potential MM teammate or no.?

#1019

I am not sure house claiming isn't going to break the game? Especially if what FZ just asked is legal. That being said I am Atriedes.

#1020

Faction claiming is fine. "Give me a word to prove you are not lying" is game-breaking. You might as well copy and paste your role PMs into the thread.

Relevant posts deleted.

I also want to add that, just because you are on the same faction does not mean you have the same win condition.

#1021

FZ. wrote:I'm not happy with SVS' vote one bit. If Sig has 3 votes, and we believe he's a civ, those of us who actually don't want a civ lynched should decide together who to vote for, so Sig doesn't end up being lynched.

SVS, why did you vote so early? And why didn't you talk about it with anyone?
In addition, you were really sure Eloh was bad. What happened to that? I didn't see you say you felt better about her.

Zebra, what happened to your Golden suspicion?
Am I the only one who feels that Zebra's back and forth with Mac as well as her accusations of Eloh a little forced? It's like she's trying too hard to look like she did as zebra 1. but something isn't coming through as she did then.

Well, sorry you don't like it one bit, I am fairly sure I have not liked any of your votes this game one bit, either.

I did not vote for Eloh as my thoughts on Eloh are more vibe than anything; I hated her vote for Zebra.01 and her reasoning felt disingenuous at best. She has not done much since then to make me feel WORSE about her.

And I voted since I will not have much time for here tonight since I spent all of my AM Mafia time here, and I don't particularly trust you and you are the person trying to decide who we bandwagon to save sig. I feel that, based on the posts he made, that Matt F had knowledge of baddie targeting. So I voted for him.

Linki @ Mac in light of Epis post~ me too

#1022

Elohcin wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.
I'm sure there isn't, you've suspected me all game.

However, I am House Atriedes (thanks for clarifying what can be claimed epi), I've already provided plenty of evidence that I have the same win con as zebra 1.0, and your vote for me will not help the civilians win the game.
Interesting. Matt, Mac, do you care to share what house you belong to?

No, not really. I am civ aligned, though, I assure you.

Linki - SVS - I have no knowledge of baddie targeting. Thank you for allowing me to express that before voting for me. Have you expressed the reason why, two days in a row now, you vote for someone without questioning them first? Can we expect that the rest of the game as well?

#1023

I should add that faction claiming is legal for a reason- because it doesn't mean it's good for your health.

#1024

S~V~S wrote:
FZ. wrote:I'm not happy with SVS' vote one bit. If Sig has 3 votes, and we believe he's a civ, those of us who actually don't want a civ lynched should decide together who to vote for, so Sig doesn't end up being lynched.

SVS, why did you vote so early? And why didn't you talk about it with anyone?
In addition, you were really sure Eloh was bad. What happened to that? I didn't see you say you felt better about her.

Zebra, what happened to your Golden suspicion?
Am I the only one who feels that Zebra's back and forth with Mac as well as her accusations of Eloh a little forced? It's like she's trying too hard to look like she did as zebra 1. but something isn't coming through as she did then.
Well, sorry you don't like it one bit, I am fairly sure I have not liked any of your votes this game one bit, either.

I did not vote for Eloh as my thoughts on Eloh are more vibe than anything; I hated her vote for Zebra.01 and her reasoning felt disingenuous at best. She has not done much since then to make me feel WORSE about her.

And I voted since I will not have much time for here tonight since I spent all of my AM Mafia time here, and I don't particularly trust you and you are the person trying to decide who we bandwagon to save sig. I feel that, based on the posts he made, that Matt F had knowledge of baddie targeting. So I voted for him.

Linki @ Mac in light of Epis post~ me too

Snarky much?
I'm quite sure we voted for the same person on day 1, so I'll just keep my snarky comments on that to myself.

And I asked about Eloh, because after zebra 1's lynch, you were so positive Eloh was bad, you even accused Bea and Floyd of self voting to stay out of that lynch. You also ignored my question back then about why you concluded Eloh had to be bad, and couldn't see it as a civ vs. civ lynch.

Questioning people's actions is part of the game, I don't see why you have to be snarky about it.

#1025

I don't think the early votes on sig automatically make him good. Reverse psychology 101. This almost feels too obvious. Just a random thought.

#1026

Matt F wrote:I don't think the early votes on sig automatically make him good. Reverse psychology 101. This almost feels too obvious. Just a random thought.

The votes themselves don't. I just felt good about him before. But you're right that we shouldn't automatically trust him. But if he's going to get lynched, I think it should be if people find him suspicious, not because he had too many forced votes

#1027

@Epi - one further clarification, because I feel this is within the rules but I just want to check.

I would be allowed to say 'my power is x and I targetted y with it last night.' - as long as this was not claiming an ability like 'I check if people are mafia'

#1028

Golden wrote:@Epi - one further clarification, because I feel this is within the rules but I just want to check.

I would be allowed to say 'my power is x and I targetted y with it last night.' - as long as this was not claiming an ability like 'I check if people are mafia'

Claim what you want without breaking the rules.

#1029

@Eloh - I think it is possible for you to be less cryptic about things you are hinting at, in light of epi's rulings, should you want to be.

#1030

I've changed my opinion.

Stop talking about your damn powers. If you can't catch Mafia the old-fashioned way, then we'll just start having vanilla games. My intention was to fashion this like timmer's Liar's Club (loads of fun), but what I've created won't fit that paradigm.

Carry on.

#1031

Golden wrote:@Eloh - I think it is possible for you to be less cryptic about things you are hinting at, in light of epi's rulings, should you want to be.

Looks like I cannot. I will stop hinting as well since the rules have changed. I still think we need to lynch Zebra 2, and then perhaps TH after that. In fact, I will vote Zebra now. Follow me if you like.

#1032

If I had not already voted for sig, I would consider a vote for zebra. I still think floyd isn't a bad idea, though.

#1033

Elohcin wrote:I agree with you FZ. I think Zebra sounds disingenuous. I fear TH is stalling as well on the matter of Zebra and if Zebra turns out to be bad, I think TH may be the next best lynch.

Just read through zebra and don't find her suspicious. It seems like you initially found her suspicious for her vote for Floyd yesterday and then later called her defense to your suspicious as over defensive. Over defensiveness is subjective.

Still looking at TH and fz for the vote today. I need to go back through fz' posts and point out what I find suspicious. The summation would be it looked like she was looking to vote fora tone but MM yesterday, she kept him in her list of players she would vote for, told me she would maybe follow my vote for him but in the end she didn't.

I have a migraine today... Not sure how much I'm going to be around.... I'll do what I can.

#1034

FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:Sig, I see you found the things on Loyd yourself.

So here are my options:

1. MM, just because this seems like more than a pure case on Sorsha's behalf.

2. Floyd, for giving very weak explanations for his actions

3. Ninju, because I have to agree with both Matt's analysis of her posts and how she voted last day.

4. Eloh, because I find it so out of character for Eloh to go read all the players individually, like she claims to have done. I'm seeing a very different Eloh than the one I'm used to. Maybe it's a new thing, or I just haven't played enough games with her, but I just don't know how to cope with this

TH, what do you think?

Mac, where the hell have you been all day? Is there a silencer in the game? I think I saw Mac read the thread earlier. Has he posted at all since the day started? I need to go check
I was leaning Ninju, but after her recent post I think I want a little more time to think it over. I'm leaning toward a vote for Floyd right now. Sorsha's sureness re: MM means nothing to me, I don't even understand what the case on him is.
Do you still think Eloh is good? Did you not find her explanation of how she ended up voting for Ninju suspicious at all? First, it's the part where she allegedly went and read all the people individually. Can you recall a time she did that? It's Eloh.
Second, the fact she felt the need to say it at all, felt forced to me. Like she needed to make sure we all understood she came to this conclusion on her own, it's not because someone else said something, but because she was doing the work herself.

I'm seriously leaning Eloh, but I don't want to waste a vote.

The MM case, well, I don't think it's a case. If I'm wrong, I'll be very surprised, but if I'm right and Sorsha is on to him, she'll need a body guard during the night. Lynching him would educate us. Then again, maybe we shouldn't because it wouldn't be fair. And maybe, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

As for Floyd, he's a nice option, and maybe Eloh voted for Ninju to avoid voting Floyd or even MM. But it can't be that easy.

linki: Why vote Sig, who isn't getting any votes and not someone who might actually get votes. Seems like a coward vote that didn't make you look so good

What are you meaning here FZ saying that lynching MM wouldn't be fair?

#1035

Golden wrote:If I had not already voted for sig, I would consider a vote for zebra. I still think floyd isn't a bad idea, though.

Was your vote forced?

#1036

Gone fishen

#1037

doh I thought the poll ended last night. Still OK with my vote, but need to catch up.

#1038

Sorsha wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:Sig, I see you found the things on Loyd yourself.

So here are my options:

1. MM, just because this seems like more than a pure case on Sorsha's behalf.

2. Floyd, for giving very weak explanations for his actions

3. Ninju, because I have to agree with both Matt's analysis of her posts and how she voted last day.

4. Eloh, because I find it so out of character for Eloh to go read all the players individually, like she claims to have done. I'm seeing a very different Eloh than the one I'm used to. Maybe it's a new thing, or I just haven't played enough games with her, but I just don't know how to cope with this

TH, what do you think?

Mac, where the hell have you been all day? Is there a silencer in the game? I think I saw Mac read the thread earlier. Has he posted at all since the day started? I need to go check
I was leaning Ninju, but after her recent post I think I want a little more time to think it over. I'm leaning toward a vote for Floyd right now. Sorsha's sureness re: MM means nothing to me, I don't even understand what the case on him is.
Do you still think Eloh is good? Did you not find her explanation of how she ended up voting for Ninju suspicious at all? First, it's the part where she allegedly went and read all the people individually. Can you recall a time she did that? It's Eloh.
Second, the fact she felt the need to say it at all, felt forced to me. Like she needed to make sure we all understood she came to this conclusion on her own, it's not because someone else said something, but because she was doing the work herself.

I'm seriously leaning Eloh, but I don't want to waste a vote.

The MM case, well, I don't think it's a case. If I'm wrong, I'll be very surprised, but if I'm right and Sorsha is on to him, she'll need a body guard during the night. Lynching him would educate us. Then again, maybe we shouldn't because it wouldn't be fair. And maybe, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

As for Floyd, he's a nice option, and maybe Eloh voted for Ninju to avoid voting Floyd or even MM. But it can't be that easy.

linki: Why vote Sig, who isn't getting any votes and not someone who might actually get votes. Seems like a coward vote that didn't make you look so good
What are you meaning here FZ saying that lynching MM wouldn't be fair?

I thought you were trying to hint to us that you had information, and since I thought that was like info dumping, I felt bad for him. I come from a place where info dumping is allowed and it was always part of the game, but here it's different. Judging by how I was wrong both about this and about asking zebra to prove her home, I guess I'm still trying to figure out what exactly is fair here and what isn't.

I'm not bad, and I think we need to stick together to make a good decision.

#1039

I never said I had info on MM, I questioned him, felt from his answers that my hunch on him was correct so I voted him and encouraged others to do the same. I think his team has sour grapes about it but oh well.

#1040

How do you feel about a TH vote fz?

#1041

Sorsha wrote:How do you feel about a TH vote fz?

I go back and forth on him. TH is a player who I consider to be similar to me, so when he's bad, I usually catch on pretty fast. I haven't yet, but I get mixed feelings about him. That said, I would definitely feel better about him being lynched than I would Sig, but I think TH might be the independent role

#1042

... And from your posts it Lois like you agree with Elohs zebra suspicion?

I'm not really seeing it but I'd go with that over a sig lynch. So I'm at sig or TH now I guess

#1043

Sorsha wrote:... And from your posts it Lois like you agree with Elohs zebra suspicion?

I'm not really seeing it but I'd go with that over a sig lynch. So I'm at sig or TH now I guess

You mean zebra or TH, right? That's what I said coming into this day.

I would like to hear both zebra and TH before we make up our mind.

#1044

Yes... Zebra or TH I meant lol I need sleep

#1045

S~V~S wrote:doh I thought the poll ended last night. Still OK with my vote, but need to catch up.

Still OK? You haven't even addressed me.

Do you, SVS, think that I would try to kill you, and then say in thread "So say SVS, did you know my NK on you the other day totes wouldn't work? Unbelievable right didja know that would happen?"

I blame myself

#1046

Until SVS addresses me, asks me a question, maybe just a simple "Hey there Matt", I will assume her vote has been tampered with. Yes, that would be a whole lotta vote manip, but whatevs.

In the meantime, here is my case on FZ

Spoiler: show

Two posts after the Night phase is over, Sorsha dives in against MM. Immediately FZ is "pinged" by Sorsha simply asking MM questions.

Side note - Sorsha, what did you mean there by "sig/his team". I noticed MM eventually responded to you, being very careful about by saying "I think A team had something to do with it..." (paraphrasing). Do you believe sig could be bad?

Spoiler: show

Now check this out. The underline is interesting because here, FZ seems to know that MM is being more jokey then his usual civ self, but earlier in the game, it looks like she's not an expert on this at all...

FZ. wrote:Is jokey Marsh a good Marsh?

The following quotes show, IMO, FZ trying to sway the thread from voting MM... (the second quote only emphasizes what she's trying to do in the first and third quote, IMO)

Spoiler: show

Below, we see FZ getting annoyed at Floyd voting for MM

Spoiler: show

Here she's still questioning Sorsha on her case...

FZ. wrote:linki: Can you see a way you could be wrong about him Sorsha?

Here she... lol. Here MM has just admitted to btsc, and FZ says...

Spoiler: show

Then, at the end of the day phase, before the poll is over...

Spoiler: show

And finally...

Spoiler: show

She really was out too. After spending the day defending MM, then pushing a tie at the last minute, she bails and doesn't stay to see what happens.

Yeah yeah, I can already hear "But why would I do all that as a baddie???" I dunno, but she did do all that, and it doesn't make her look good IMO.

If I was able to change my vote today, it would go FZ.

#1047

FZ. wrote:
Sorsha wrote:... And from your posts it Lois like you agree with Elohs zebra suspicion?

I'm not really seeing it but I'd go with that over a sig lynch. So I'm at sig or TH now I guess
You mean zebra or TH, right? That's what I said coming into this day.

I would like to hear both zebra and TH before we make up our mind.

What exactly do you want me to defend? Neither you nor Elohcin have given any reason to suspect me.

#1048

At least with my Day 1 lynch there was something I could work with not just "hmmmm disingenuous methinks" nonsense.

#1049

Matt, I see your case on me. I'm not going to quote it because it's too long. I guess I can see your case. It's wrong.

Like I said, I didn't know if what Sorsha did was legit, so I kept asking about it. If I were a baddie, I'd just go to Epi and tell him it didn't feel legit, and he would either tell me I was wrong or right, and I'd have to deal with my frustration.

I then asked if there was a chance Sorsha could be wrong because MM admitted to having BTSC. I thought maybe he wasn't trying to hide anything and the role that Sorsha had found out he had BTSC but couldn't know if it was bad or not. She replied after I voted, and yeah, I left because it was way way past my bed time. Believe me I wanted to know how it ended. I hoped that no matter what, it would end good.

As for my question on jokey MM in the beginning, and then me saying he was way more jokey than his usual civ persona, I don't see what's wrong about it. I noticed him being too jokey, and I asked if it's a good thing. Later, I still said he's way more jokey than his civ persona. If you notice, I still wasn't sure that meant he was a baddie. I felt the same way in both cases- wondering.

#1050

Zebra, all you've done this day is show Mac you were suspicious of him as zebra 1, then when I asked you what happened to your Golden suspicion, you said nothing happened and voted for him. Didn't try to help the civvie cause in any way or get to the bottom of things.
I don't buy your actions today. They don't feel genuine. It's like it was a good thing for you I asked about Golden, because it gave you an excuse to vote for him.

I'm ready to vote for zebra.

Who killed S~V~S?