Dune [ENDGAME]

#1251

I find that veeeery hard to believe, but I will take a closer look at Eloh's ISO.

#1252

So sig was bad...

#1253

Very nice result.

S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:And, I think the last two (there are two left, right?) Are Zebra and TH. Just sayin'.
Not FZ? She pretty much was in charge of the Save Sig committee.

And the Save MM committee.

Golden wrote:Fair enough. I doubt you'll take my word for it. I know mine was forced, and I have good reason to feel sure that SVS and Mac's were as well. I don't have the same level of certainty on Matt F, but how much more unlikely is 4 than 3. I think if anyone was a cop role, they likely would have pushed harder on the 'despite votes being forced, lets not rule sig out as civ', which at times it felt like I was the only one with any actual suspicion on him and I'll admit that even so I doubt I would have voted for him if not for the event.

I also think there is clear evidence from the person responsible that all the votes were legitimately forced. Do you see what I'm referring to?

Per the underline, I also have good reason to believe SVS was forced, considering the admitted mistake by Epi. What gives you reason to assume that Mac's vote was forced more then mine?

MacDougall wrote:I reckon Matt is the solo rogue and is the vote manip.

Believe me, I wish I could take credit for this. Ironically, I never even suspected sig until today's events transpired. I actually begin to think he was bad because of the manip.

Anyway, right now...

SVS thinks I'm Harkonnen. Golden thinks I'm civ aligned indy. And I really don't know what Mac thinks.

Regardless, happy for the result. It was a good one.

Linki - Really Zebra? Why? Give me your case. In fact, Mac, give me your case. Please.

#1254

sig wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Golden, I say that I must truly suck at reading sig.

@MM yeah guess we didn't pray to the god of tie's enough or not sacrifice enough sheep

Keep it off-topic bruh, I already said I don't take wine from the dead and these posts from you and MM seem to be implying something about Floyd's alignment. Almost too much.

#1255

Matt, I may have moved to civ-aligned civ on you now.

#1256

Elohcin wrote:
MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?
If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

Elo. Do you now have Zebs as civ?

#1257

Golden wrote:Matt, I may have moved to civ-aligned civ on you now.

What are you trying to say here? Civ-aligned indy?

If that's what you're saying, I thought you already had me down as that. Anyway, if that's what you wanna think, go for it. Better then what SVS is thinking.

As a matter of fact, Golden, while you're here, would you agree that SVS' case on me has a few holes?

#1258

No, civ-aligned civ. CIV. Not indy. Not bad. It's just a maybe, but I'm upgrading you. Pending other things happening. Mac's idea could have merit too, I suppose.

SVS case might be wrong, but I thought it was pretty decent. I don't blame her for feeling the way she does about you. You have done odd things in respect of her and I assume you and she have more info about whatever it is that your questions and responses pertain to than I do.

#1259

Matt F wrote:Very nice result.

S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:And, I think the last two (there are two left, right?) Are Zebra and TH. Just sayin'.
Not FZ? She pretty much was in charge of the Save Sig committee.
And the Save MM committee.

Golden wrote:Fair enough. I doubt you'll take my word for it. I know mine was forced, and I have good reason to feel sure that SVS and Mac's were as well. I don't have the same level of certainty on Matt F, but how much more unlikely is 4 than 3. I think if anyone was a cop role, they likely would have pushed harder on the 'despite votes being forced, lets not rule sig out as civ', which at times it felt like I was the only one with any actual suspicion on him and I'll admit that even so I doubt I would have voted for him if not for the event.

I also think there is clear evidence from the person responsible that all the votes were legitimately forced. Do you see what I'm referring to?
Per the underline, I also have good reason to believe SVS was forced, considering the admitted mistake by Epi. What gives you reason to assume that Mac's vote was forced more then mine?

MacDougall wrote:I reckon Matt is the solo rogue and is the vote manip.

Believe me, I wish I could take credit for this. Ironically, I never even suspected sig until today's events transpired. I actually begin to think he was bad because of the manip.

Anyway, right now...

SVS thinks I'm Harkonnen. Golden thinks I'm civ aligned indy. And I really don't know what Mac thinks.

Regardless, happy for the result. It was a good one.

Linki - Really Zebra? Why? Give me your case. In fact, Mac, give me your case. Please.

I already had a hunch you were a separate non civ faction because of the shenanigans that Golden and I put you through. You also have been making posts that seem like you have a separate line of thought. Specifically the assumption that there is more than one enemy, and that they would have kills. Your sig vote was made with less surprise.

I think your role allows you to force a player from each faction to vote a player of your choice. Or not vote at all.

What are your reads on Golden and SVS?

SVS do you happen to be House Fremen?

#1260

Well I went through Eloh's ISO of Day 3. She asks a lot of questions about the roles but even near the end she seems pretty clueless as to what's actually going on, so I don't see how she "cracked" anything. It doesn't help that she suspects me the most and had a town read on sig, but then immediately says "WOOT WOOT" as if that was the lynch she was vouching for the entire time. Really, re-reading all of her Day 3 posts in light of sig's flip just made her look worse to me.

#1261

I think sig's ISO is damning for Elo.

He had soft suspicions of her with no case. Always read her with another player who he said was more suspicous and never voted her.

#1262

So Golden could you care to share with me what jaw-dropping reveal is hidden in the fine print of Eloh's posts because I'm failing to pay close attention to them? Is it opposite day and I just didn't get the memo? Because that would make her look a lot better.

#1263

MacDougall wrote:I think sig's ISO is damning for Elo.

He had soft suspicions of her with no case. Always read her with another player who he said was more suspicous and never voted her.

Their ISOs are damning of each other, in hindsight.

#1264

Good theory Mac, except I think you and I are the same house.

@Zebra - you have to be kidding me. You noticed nothing? Nothing that she banged on about over and over again?

SHE IS THE VOTE MANIPULATOR

#1265

Although, I just realised that post is probably against the new rules, if so please delete epi. Sorry. I forgot.

That's also not something eloh ever said outright, so it's just my assumption.

#1266

An assumption, in all-caps. Nice. Yeah I do not buy it at all.

#1267

I wouldn't bother deleting that post Epi, if Golden is civ then he must be smoking something fierce.

#1268

If that's the case then why is my theory good?

Golden you think sig was accidentally targeted for the votes right? Can you explore this thought with me?

You said Floyd would be a good lynch but that you also felt that sig was possibly bad at some point too. If you felt like sig was possibly bad and that a bad vote manip had his role redirected why would Floyd as scum be put into the lynching position again. When according to you in light of your newfound read of Matt as civ, Sig had four town votes on him and a scum read of yours self pres voting him?

Floyd what is your house?

Do you still think Floyd is bad in light of him surviving two coin flips with scum?

#1269

Golden wrote:No, civ-aligned civ. CIV. Not indy. Not bad. It's just a maybe, but I'm upgrading you. Pending other things happening. Mac's idea could have merit too, I suppose.

SVS case might be wrong, but I thought it was pretty decent. I don't blame her for feeling the way she does about you. You have done odd things in respect of her and I assume you and she have more info about whatever it is that your questions and responses pertain to than I do.

Oh, my bad. I thought you had a typo when saying "civ aligned civ".

I approve of your upgrade!

SVS' case is wrong. I understand where she's coming from, it was a weird question, and also I had no idea that she had been poisoned. But I did not target her with a kill or poison, and I do not know if anyone else did either.

What really gets me is, I asked her about feeling secure about Night 1 specifically. Then she turns it around, saying that I knew she was poisoned, which would according to her take a few days to kill her. So how does that correlate with me asking about Night 1 specifically? That is the biggest hole, IMO. Waiting on her answers to my questions, though, in case she decides to pursue.

Anywho, I may be back, but I'm gonna go check up on the other game for a sec.

Linki - Mac, I don't know how many enemies there are in the game, I know of one group for sure that needs to be eliminated, and thankfully we''ve already lucked out getting two of them. Also, are you seriously telling me that you never once assumed a different faction besides Harkonnen might have kills?

Again, you're wrong about my role. Wish I could take credit for today, but I can't bub.

Golden - I've been suspicious of him since way back on Day 1, when he said he'd pull back on the Zebra hunch day 2 if it didn't pan out Day 1. Surprised the heck outta me because he was doing everything in his power to get her lynched, if I recall.

SVS - I find it suspicious that she latched onto the MM case without giving him a chance to answer. Yes, before you ask, I realize we caught a bad guy with that one. Then today, before she realizes her mistake I guess, she again votes for someone (me!) without giving them a chance to defend. That doesn't look good, no matter how you cut it. However, she seems to think I was target painting her for the bad guys, and with that defense, I feel she might be civ or civ aligned.

Either way, her case is wrong. Your case is wrong. Golden is the only one who is correct, civ aligned civ.

I'd like to remind people that I voted MM giving Sorsha the BOTD. I also encouraged several players (among them Luke and FZ) to also vote MM.

Today, despite being forced, I also questioned whether sig was even a good guy despite the forced votes. If I recall, the player who called that idea silly was Zebra, who I also still find suspicious btw.

Linki linki linki

#1270

I think a mass house claiming is a good move. I know Epi said that it's not good for health but if we all do it then we are all equally at risk of whatever he is referring to. We can then use maths to pool liars together.

#1271

I get it now. You're not closely reading the posts Golden, you singled out this one post...

Elohcin wrote:
sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?
Whose got the redirection role Idiot!

...and interpreted it to mean Eloh was referring to herself. Because all of her other posts throughout the day strongly contradict that interpretation.

linki - We can't now, Mac.

#1272

Good theory, but wrong theory, Mac.

This is why. Also what zebra is missing in eloh's ISO. First three times this word was mentioned in the game were very early on day three, just after three votes for sig came in...

Elohcin wrote:
sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?
Whose got the redirection role Idiot!

Elohcin wrote:Poor Sig. Sorry this is happening to you bud.

linki....Niju is off the poll today? Who else has been off the poll so far? I am interested in who has this role and the redirection role. Suspicious things are among us and I don't like it.

Elohcin wrote:
sig wrote:Matt shouldn't come back until the day ends

I see Elohcin know on the poll I'll review her but as I said I'm reading Blooper as much more scummy. Blooper isn't available to lynch today though, and I've yet to do my ISO on Elohcin.

Know I'm interested in who did this to me, I'm thinking if not the mafia then the Empire, notice this all happened when I mentioned two mafia teams? Might be acting alittle paranoid but it is worth discussing imo.
I am interested as well. Stupid redirection role.

Who do you think would have done this?

The only thing smoking is a smoking gun.

#1273

Matt I never thought of any non Hark faction as having kills no. They aren't my enemy so I wasn't even thinking of them.

Linki: dang. So we are left with it hanging out and nobody else. Oh well.

Right now I have Elo as a Sig teammie. The idea that she is the vote manip based on that post is interesting because I doubt she would skirt her husbands rules that closely. Elo did you mean what Golden took you to mean?

Golden if you think she is the vote manip. Didn't you also have the vote manip as a bad guy who had their ability shifted. If that's the case then how is she a town read based on that?

#1274

No. I never had the vote manipulator in a particular affiliation. The redirector I think could be bad.

#1275

@Mac - there would have been no rule skirting in the slightest. At that point, epi had made no ruling about role powers. You were free to role claim. Epi also didn't delete them, nor mine.

#1276

Golden that is reaching at best. Also, assuming you're right, are you trying to get her killed?

#1277

Elohcin wrote:Poor Sig. Sorry this is happening to you bud.

linki....Niju is off the poll today? Who else has been off the poll so far? I am interested in who has this role and the redirection role. Suspicious things are among us and I don't like it.

I find the fact that you used this second post particularly amusing Golden for reasons that I have italicized.

#1278

a2thezebra wrote:Golden that is reaching at best. Also, assuming you're right, are you trying to get her killed?

Oh, ffs - everything is bad with you. Even trying to solve the game. I give in.

It's not a reach. You say her posts are inconsistent with it, but you should read them again. They are absolutely not. How certain does she sound that the role exists? Why does she suddenly bring it up three times just after sig takes three votes? (This all feels very biblical).

Oh, right, so you just want to use the fact that, despite the common thread in ALL THREE POSTS being SIG, and it happening JUST AFTER THERE VOTES CAME IN FOR SIG...

That that one quote about ninja means she is actually the person taking names off the poll?

Then why was she off the poll on day two. Have you asked epi if people can use their abilities on themselves? I have. You can't. That is not Eloh's role.

#1279

And it was clear in context the think about ninja being off the poll was because eloh wanted to vote/suspected ninja.

#1280

Golden, here's the points of my last two posts.

...

And here's your head...

WOOOSH

#1281

Luke11646 wrote:
FZ. wrote:Okay, I need to go, and I need to go now. Since no one is going to be the one to make the decision here, I'll do it. I'm going with Floyd. I think we learn more from lynching him, then we do Luke. If Floyd comes out civ, Luke looks worse in my eyes, for saying what he did after the deadline last day.

voting Floyd
What did I say that is so bad.

I think it's more the lack of what you have said. Luke what do you think about any players? Who do you think is most likely civ? Who do you think is lying?

I *think* you and bannanananner were peeps floyd talked into playing yes? so you are new? Have you ever played an online Mafia game before? Have you ever played the game IRL?

This is a game based on reading the thread and trying to figure out who is civ and who is bad. Bad people will lie to you. You have to figure out who you trust and who you think is lying.

You should talk lots about what you think is happening in the thread. Read it, respond to it. IDK if you are good or bad because all I ever see is "IDK what's going on"

If you don't understand something - ask questions. Be proactive!

linki - yes - I'm still this far behind. Thread catsup took a back seat to a phone call from one of my t-county besties. Sorry.

#1282

Golden, I want you to read those again with the context that I think you're more likely a cop than a bad guy now. You pay close attention, so pay close attention.

#1283

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, I want you to read those again with the context that I think you're more likely a cop than a bad guy now. You pay close attention, so pay close attention.

I'm not paying close attention to your stupid theory, because it's wrong.

Oh, by the way, ask epi about the self-targetting thing. Thing I want to self-target because I'm a cop, do you?

#1284

I also think its hilarious you accuse me of trying to get eloh killed while calling me a COP, of all things. What bigger target could anyone paint?

#1285

PS, if I was a cop, I wouldn't railroad my number one suspicion on day one. I'd have waited and got a check on you first.

#1286

Damn it Golden. I tell you you're missing the point so you continue denying my content based on the idea that you're reading it right when you're not. Even though I think I was wrong now, I'm glad I gave you a taste of your own medicine earlier with the tunneling.

#1287

@zebra - why don't you, as I did for you, stop being cryptic and make your point clearly, then.

But - don't make it for me to read through some predetermined lens like 'you think I'm a cop', because it's just not worth it for me if I know your starting premise is incorrect.

#1288

Forget that I think you're a cop, just remember that I think you're a civ, if it offends you so much that I would imply you're being deceitful as if civilians never do that (cough fucking cough). And I can't be open without breaking the rules. You can be open with Eloh because you're speculating, I'm not.

#1289

OK zebra - your point and my head are now aligned. I think.

#1290

God I hope so.

#1291

Well, at least it would explain why you completely missed my point the first time through the iso.

#1292

Golden wrote:@Eloh - how do you feel about Matt F?

His zaniness would make me question his alliance, however his sig vote (even while forced) puts him in the clear in my eyes. I see him as civ along with all the other sig voters. Except for Floyd that is. I think Floyd is civ but not b/c his vote for sig.

MacDougall wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.
Elo. Do you now have Zebs as civ?

I suppose her Day 2 vote makes her look pretty good now that sig has been proven as bad. They voted one after the other on Day 2 and I don't see that being normal baddie team behavior. My gut still nags me about it though. And if Zebra is civ, then I suppose TH is civ. I'd hate to be wrong on all my suspicions though.

@ Zebra. Woot Woot for the civs, not b/c I had anything to do with it.

MacDougall wrote:
Right now I have Elo as a Sig teammie. The idea that she is the vote manip based on that post is interesting because I doubt she would skirt her husbands rules that closely. Elo did you mean what Golden took you to mean?

Golden if you think she is the vote manip. Didn't you also have the vote manip as a bad guy who had their ability shifted. If that's the case then how is she a town read based on that?

Back then, the rules weren't as strict as they are now. When the rules got strict, I shut up. I believe Golden is saying that the vote manip rule and the redirection role are separate and that the redirection role is the bad role. B/c he said that when he was bad with MM once before, MM tried to get the team to agree to redirect something to another teammate.

And I see Golden assured everything I just said in later posts

#1293

Matt F wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Talking to me like I am an idiot does not help.

Personally, I think my theory is flawless. Based on what I know, that is. I don;t know what you may or may not know. The person who poisoned me would have known it failed. And with the semi closed set up, trying to put out feelers as to why could not hurt, right?

Why did you ask me if i felt safe that night?
I don't think of you as an idiot and never have, honest to goodness. If it comes across that way, I apologize.

So are you saying someone did poison you? Is that what I'm taking away here? I had no idea that you were when I asked that, for real.

As to why I asked you that question, I'm not going to answer that. Sorry. But I'm not MM's teamie and I'm a townie. Swearsies!

I can maybe believe that you had no idea that nefarious things were happening to SVS. But really svs is a pretty standard N1 target for like all SORTS of things. Civ and baddie alike.

That said, you asked her a specific question about her safety and you refuse to answer why you asked it of her. You ask her and everyone else to just believe and trust you. Can't you see why we might be a little suspicious of it?

I don't think you are so dumb as to have targeted her then asked her about it when it failed. BUT, I think pressing her about it, if it was a failed target - is trying to make her out herself in ways I'm not sure I'm comfortable wih - and if you wanted to know about failed targets - you prolly should have asked The Host - first. In the thread. So you had something to work with or not.

But - between your specific role assignment to sorsha and your specific questions to svs - I can't shake the feeling that you are asking for info neither of them prolly should give without breaking the game. And I can't see why anyone would do that.

If you are town aligned and you want to focus on someone - focus on people you have thread evidence you think might be bad. I swear I'll read it at least once and if I don't understand it I'll ask you questions.

#1294

Golden wrote:And it was clear in context the think about ninja being off the poll was because eloh wanted to vote/suspected ninja.

What's this? I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

Also, what is a "cop" in Mafia?

#1295

a2thezebra wrote:One would think that a player so distinctly doubtful that sig's situation today is a decent indicator that he's town-aligned would have been reading his posts more closely.

Please explain this post to me like I'm the drunk dumbass menality of a 3 year old I currently have.

Given the pre-lynch time you posted it - I'd like to know where your head space was when you posted it and also if your headspace changed when he flipped bad.

#1296

Golden, I think you got the first point but not the second. That's fine though, sleep it over and you'll be safe as milk with it in the morning.

Elohcin wrote:I suppose her Day 2 vote makes her look pretty good now that sig has been proven as bad. They voted one after the other on Day 2 and I don't see that being normal baddie team behavior. My gut still nags me about it though. And if Zebra is civ, then I suppose TH is civ. I'd hate to be wrong on all my suspicions though.

You are in fact wrong on all those suspicions (well maybe not TH, but if it's based entirely on him being my teammate then yeah) Eloh. It's okay, this flip has put me in the exact same position. What a roller-coaster of a game as far as reads go. I like it.

linki @ Eloh - A role that can acquire outside information often related to other players' roles on a regular basis throughout the game. And yeah, you and Golden should sort out that Niju thing.

linki @ bea - It seemed to me that Golden was being disingenuous with his repeated re-assurance that sig could in fact be bad, and that this conflicted with the fact that he did not know that sig couldn't vote on Day 3. But my mind has changed drastically in many factors since the flip.

#1297

Golden wrote:
sig wrote:I've got the same feeling if I survive I'm going on a Crusade and like the First one not the Fourth the fourth kinda failed.
I prefer the Last Crusade.

I hope that Floyd is lynched, because I think it is of value either way. If sig dies, it's just a whole lot of votes no-one wanted to cast etc. It tells us nothing.

we named the dog Indiana....

That said - given sig's baddie flip - do you really think we learned less?? FZ has hard defended two baddies in a row now. Doesn't that change at all how you see her? I'm personally not sure. Hence my asking.

linki - with zeeb - I'm still this far behind....so yea....

#1298

I mean the sig flip makes me look worse too because it means I've hard-defended one baddie (sig) and lite-defended and hard-ignored another (MM).

#1299

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:But then again I'm not sure if Golden is the one who should have asked me that.
Golden wrote: I hope that Floyd is lynched, because I think it is of value either way. If sig dies, it's just a whole lot of votes no-one wanted to cast etc. It tells us nothing.
Nothing? It tells us a hell of a lot more than MM's lynch.

linki - Oh I see. Yeah, I still do.
So you think Harkonnen were faking votes on their own teammate? Or do you think there is something else at play, and if so what?
I'm not sure. Could be The Smuggler, could be Harkonnen faking votes, could be one or two of you had a gut read or cop role that found out sig's alignment but couldn't form a case in-thread, there are many possibilities. I think all of them are more likely than there being four forced votes on a single day. Not positive, but it seems unlikely to me.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Please again explain it to me like the dumb drunk 3 year old I am. Are you saying the smuggler forced 4 votes? Are you saying some votes were forced, but the rest of the team bussed a teammate? IF that's the case, who were the teammates that bussed the vote?

How would a cop civ role be able to coordinate the votes needed to take down a scum they knew they had but couldn't prove?

I really don't understand and I want to understand.

#1300

MacDougall wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:FLOYD
That's twice now. How many passes do we give you?

This is a fair point. TH - what say you?

Who killed S~V~S?