Dune [ENDGAME]

#1351

Golden wrote:I would strongly advise against an Eloh lynch at this stage. I don't think Mac is correct. It was Eloh's conduct yesterday which led me to realise sig could be bad. There is a lot of stuff Eloh said yesterday that seems both unnecessary and actively hurtful to her own team if she was sig's teammate.

I agree with this.

I'd like to look at TH today for sure. Others as well but I haven't had a chance to review anything in light of sig turning up bad.

#1352

TH is my number one for today too. I think he has a high chance of being bad. His positioning in both lynches has been far worse than FZ's, in my opinion.

I'm going to do a read back on him and have a look at his various opinions.

#1353

Matt F wrote:Looking at the polls, I see both FZ and Turnip Head voted for Floyd on the days that MM and sig are lynched (both days these votes helped push Floyd into a tie with the Harkonnen folk).

Certainly looks suspicious, perhaps we should be more cautious of what they post and who they vote for.

#1354

Golden wrote:I would strongly advise against an Eloh lynch at this stage. I don't think Mac is correct. It was Eloh's conduct yesterday which led me to realise sig could be bad. There is a lot of stuff Eloh said yesterday that seems both unnecessary and actively hurtful to her own team if she was sig's teammate.

Like what?

#1355

Sorsha wrote:
Golden wrote:I would strongly advise against an Eloh lynch at this stage. I don't think Mac is correct. It was Eloh's conduct yesterday which led me to realise sig could be bad. There is a lot of stuff Eloh said yesterday that seems both unnecessary and actively hurtful to her own team if she was sig's teammate.
I agree with this.

I'd like to look at TH today for sure. Others as well but I haven't had a chance to review anything in light of sig turning up bad.

Yes well I have. Contary to Golden I think that a scum sig and a scum metalmarsh look terrible for eloh. How he has a different opinion is odd.

#1356

Without Eloh, I wouldn't have had an inkling sig could be bad.

I'm looking at eloh's posts more than MM's and sigs.

Also, the fact that Sorsha backs me up makes me feel more confident in the read as well.

#1357

Elohcin wrote:I agree with you that the reasons you find me suspicious are in fact the actions of others. I am not sure what I have done, ME!!!, to make you think I am mafia. Also, why would I be the vote forcer as golden said AND be a part of the baddie team that redirected the vote forcer onto one of their own. That is silly.

Aside from a pingy post or two nothing. Evidently Zebs feels otherwise so we will see what she says on the subject. You know as well as I do that other people's behavior towards players often tells more about that player than their own.

I feel like TH and or FZ probably need to be held accountable for their vote behavior but both have been quite town in their post contributions. It's easy to say they are viable candidates but if I don't see valid reasons aside from their votes they will not be receiving one from me. To think a scum player would place votes so blatant two days running is to accuse that scum player of either idiocy or serious balls out wifom mind fuckery. Neither FZ or TH strike me as idiots and I have found both of them quite genuine, so are they reckless enough scum players to use their vote so callously? I do not know.

Linki: Yes great please explain how.

#1358

MacDougall wrote:
I feel like TH and or FZ probably need to be held accountable for their vote behavior but both have been quite town in their post contributions.

Maybe they are tricksy baddies

But seriously...I halfway agree with this. I feel FZ has seemed town, but not so much with TH.

#1359

Epignosis wrote:
No one has been killed.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

bea, does this outcome surprise you? Who do you think was targeted, if anyone?

#1360

Here we are folks.

#1361

The return of matt f and his oddly specific questions

@Mac - it's not that I want to be unhelpful, but I look at your post and feel like you are asking me to repeat what I've been saying for the last 24 hours. So - this is my attempt to sum it up, and after that if you don't understand what I'm getting at I'm not sure I can say much more. I think there is sufficient thread evidence for me to feel as though Eloh had a role in sig getting four votes yesterday, and I think her specific part of that is not consistent with her being bad with sig.

I think the baddie team probably has a redirector and redirected (person x's ability) to sig.
I think Eloh had some kind of role yesterday. Either she IS person x, or she also targetted person x, and had some impact on what went down. Regardless of whether Eloh is person x or just targetted person x, the impact of Eloh's role was negative for sig, and the baddies would have been able to see that risk. So it just doesn't make logical sense to me that she would be bad.

Add to that, her thread content yesterday was significant and important in me identifying that we should not assume sig to be civilian. Explain to me why it would be so in her interests to keep talking about a redirection role when, from the baddie perspective, it would have been much more helpful for saving sig for the baddies to pretend that sig WAS the intended target of the vote manipulation, and therefore was probably good.

Eloh being bad... just doesn't make sense to me. She would have to be some master busser who was hoping to shed shade on sig for cred if he got lynched, and I just don't think that is Eloh's style at all. In fact I'm certain it isn't.

#1362

Golden wrote:The return of matt f and his oddly specific questions

#1363

I believe I can see where what you are suggesting makes some sense. I will have to ponder on it.

Elo did you have a scum read of sig yesterday and if so why didn't you vote for him?

#1364

I see I can't vote Golden today, bummer.

#1365

Hey, neat, thanks poll person!

#1366

I agree that my voting record looks scummy as hell. I have no intentions of disputing that fact.

I have no idea what's going on in this game.

#1367

What are your current reads? Like all of them?

#1368

Looking over the polls...

bea self voted Day 1. If I'm correct, the only confirmed meta we have on Bea, re: self voting, is a game where she was bad, right? I believe Mac asked her for a game where was civ and self voted, and bea said...

bea wrote:I honestly feel like my time would be better spent looking at this game than searching all the games I've played to find an example.

On Day 1, the leading candidates were Zebra 1.0 (civvie), Eloh (currently Golden/Sorsha believe her to be civ aligned, correct?) with three votes a piece, and sig with two votes. So, one civvie, one potential civvie, and one baddie were bea's choices. She self-votes instead.

On Day 2, bea missed the vote completely. This is the day that MM was lynched. In response to missing the vote...

bea wrote:I'm very sorry I missed the vote. My sunday got away from me in a storm of football and pizza.

Did anyone challenge bea on this? The day phase after she self votes, she misses a vote where Mafia is successfully lynched. Because of the football/pizza storm. I know this is going to sound crazy guys, but believe it or not, I have actually used my computer, eaten food, AND watched TV at the same time. I know it sounds wild, but it's true.

On Day 3, bea pushes Floyd into a tie with sig. But I'm not surprised, after all, this is what bea had been saying about sig all day...

Spoiler: show

The above looks like a bea who really does not want sig lynched. Like, really bad doesn't want him gone. Before hearing "Why would bea cry so hard over a teamie?", can I at least get an agreement that this looks like a bea who really does not want sig lynched?

You know what else interests me about bea, btw?

After our convo last night, where bea was telling me how I crossed the line "target painting" Sorsha, I found this post...

NOVEMBER 3RD, 3:44 AM

bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but it stands out to me.
Why do you think Sorsha has a lie detector role?

Am I dreaming? This looks like bea asking me why I think Sorsha has a lie detector role. She even apologizes if it's already been addressed, but in case it hasn't, she'd like to know why I think Sorsha has a lie detect role. By asking me that, I'm assuming she expected me to answer and give her the reason why I thought that?

What a weird question from someone, who two days later would tell me I "crossed the line" in regards to Sorsha. I mean, you would think, bea would not have asked me to dive further into my reasoning regarding Sorsha and having a lie detect. Right?

Anyway, the self-vote Day 1, the no vote Day 2 because of pizza/football storms, and the push tie vote for Floyd Day 3 really make me wonder where bea stands.

Tomorrow I will look up ISO's on sig and MM to see where they were on bea, unless someone would like to help me with that? Anyway...

Toodles!

#1369

@Matt F, I was thinking through where I stand on each player a bit earlier. Putting together a mental rainbow list. And I realised that bea was floating back up to the higher end of my suspect list as well.

I don't think bea's vote missing is at all unusual for her, though, as a civilian or a baddie, in that she is often busy at the wrong times. But I do think your case is really strong, and I'm willing to consider a bea vote today.

PS, bea, a football/pizza storm sounds kind of amazing.

#1370

Matt my ISO on Metalmarsh concluded with neg on bea and elo fwiw.

#1371

Golden wrote:@Matt F, I was thinking through where I stand on each player a bit earlier. Putting together a mental rainbow list. And I realised that bea was floating back up to the higher end of my suspect list as well.

I don't think bea's vote missing is at all unusual for her, though, as a civilian or a baddie, in that she is often busy at the wrong times. But I do think your case is really strong, and I'm willing to consider a bea vote today.
]

I am not.

And hooray for no death

#1372

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:@Matt F, I was thinking through where I stand on each player a bit earlier. Putting together a mental rainbow list. And I realised that bea was floating back up to the higher end of my suspect list as well.

I don't think bea's vote missing is at all unusual for her, though, as a civilian or a baddie, in that she is often busy at the wrong times. But I do think your case is really strong, and I'm willing to consider a bea vote today.
]
I am not.

And hooray for no death

OK SVS. I'm going to trust you on this one. I sense that there is truth in what you are saying. I'm willing to hold off on a bea vote.

#1373

What do you think of TH, SVS?

#1374

Matt F wrote:I know this is going to sound crazy guys, but believe it or not, I have actually used my computer, eaten food, AND watched TV at the same time.

Right, but have you ever felt obligated to?

#1375

FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:I don't think you are my top suspect, you've just gone from 'town read' to more middle of the road.
You know how when you make too many bad decisions, you don't feel like playing? That's where I'm at now. I'll get over it. I doubt I'll be NK, so I'll probably have to defend myself at some point.

This lynch was different. I did feel good about Sig, whereas with MM, I just couldn't decide between him and Floyd. Naturally, I'm feeling a lot better about Floyd now. Taking the risk and trying to save Sig would have worked much better for the baddies than saving MM because MM was "caught" while Sig had everything going for him. So I think baddies took the risk and joined the Floyd bandwagon. I'm not going to be the one pointing fingers because I feel I should just shut up now. Funny, how everyone is looking at me now, when other than you, no one really considered that Sig could be bad. At least as someone who thought he was good, I was trying to take responsibility, even if it was the wrong decision.

You reacted in an incredibly hostile way to me not holding my vote in order to save sig. I think if you HAD succeeded in saving sig, you & he would be leading lynches on any of us who deviated from the party line you created. That would be an extremely bold baddie gambit, but not totally unfeasible. Had I not been lame and our host not been gracious about letting me change my vote, I think you might have pulled it off. You were already setting me up for the next lynch with you "I don't like SVS' vote one bit" post. If that is what it is, a baddie gambit, even having failed it will be something people refer to. Had it been a baddie success it would have been legendary.

And Golden, I have a hell of a hard time reading TH. He is one of those people I have no opinion on until he is killing me, lol. But I will reread him.

And I feel very strongly that Bea is not on a baddie team.

#1376

S~V~S wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:I don't think you are my top suspect, you've just gone from 'town read' to more middle of the road.
You know how when you make too many bad decisions, you don't feel like playing? That's where I'm at now. I'll get over it. I doubt I'll be NK, so I'll probably have to defend myself at some point.

This lynch was different. I did feel good about Sig, whereas with MM, I just couldn't decide between him and Floyd. Naturally, I'm feeling a lot better about Floyd now. Taking the risk and trying to save Sig would have worked much better for the baddies than saving MM because MM was "caught" while Sig had everything going for him. So I think baddies took the risk and joined the Floyd bandwagon. I'm not going to be the one pointing fingers because I feel I should just shut up now. Funny, how everyone is looking at me now, when other than you, no one really considered that Sig could be bad. At least as someone who thought he was good, I was trying to take responsibility, even if it was the wrong decision.
You reacted in an incredibly hostile way to me not holding my vote in order to save sig. I think if you HAD succeeded in saving sig, you & he would be leading lynches on any of us who deviated from the party line you created. That would be an extremely bold baddie gambit, but not totally unfeasible. Had I not been lame and our host not been gracious about letting me change my vote, I think you might have pulled it off. You were already setting me up for the next lynch with you "I don't like SVS' vote one bit" post. If that is what it is, a baddie gambit, even having failed it will be something people refer to. Had it been a baddie success it would have been legendary.

And Golden, I have a hell of a hard time reading TH. He is one of those people I have no opinion on until he is killing me, lol. But I will reread him.

And I feel very strongly that Bea is not on a baddie team.

Your imagination is great. Your baddie hunting is apparently off as mine is.
I wasn't hostile, but since I honestly thought Sig was a civ, I was quite pissed that people just went and voted without talking about it and trying to reach an understanding that would save him. It turned out for the best, and I'm glad it did, but other than Golden, I don't remember anyone thinking Sig was bad. And if people didn't think he was bad, then saving him should have been in their interest. I wasn't setting you up for anything. I didn't like your vote.

#1377

I think we should look at Blooper and Luke today and not only TH.

If you look at those who were NK the first two nights, they were both people who voted Sig on day 1. On day 2, Blooper voted Sig, when she was the only one and he wasn't close to being lynched, while Drac didn't, yet Blooper didn't die night 2, but Drac did.

In addition, I don't have time to quote all of Blooper's post from before last day's lynch, but if you go read back you'll see that she starts off saying it seems Floyd's name is being thrown around but people are hesitant to vote him. The, she give a few reasons why Floyd might not be the baddie, but then gradually starts shifting her opinion. She still says she's a little suspicious of Sig, but the 3 vote manipulation is making her hesitate.
If anyone can do an ISO of her, that would be great.

As for Luke-
Why is Luke so afraid to take a stance? He keeps voting for people who are not going to be lynched and like zebra said, his "don't know" posts are getting old. That's all he's done. Oh no, wait, he also said Floyd doesn't look bad to him only after the deadline which brought a tie between MM and Floyd. Was he setting himself to look good if Floyd was the one lynched? Because right now, it looks as though Floyd is good, which makes Luke look worse in my opinion. Notice he didn't make any comment on MM, just Floyd.

TH-
His record is bad, but so is mine. Like I said before, if I had to guess, I'd say TH is a third party. He's involved, but not as I expect. Yet his statements seem rather genuine.
But hell, what do I know, right?

#1378

Day 1, niju votes for me (the most overtly disingenuous vote of my 1.0 mislynch in hindsight) despite stating before that she was suspicious of those jumping on the very same bandwagon.

nijuukyugou wrote:Whew; I thought I had a lot of catch-up to do, but I had a blessedly short two pages. Commentary on what I've read and general thoughts:

1) I don't care much for policy lynches except for their amusement factor at times (as in, some of the reasons people use amuse me, but the voting itself isn't helpful for mafia-hunting).
2) It's weird to say this as a low-poster myself, but I don't like voting for people who are outspoken on Day 1, and would like to look at people avoiding posting in the thread. I find voting outspoken weirdos on Day 1 encourages baddies to keep low and quiet for half the game, only to screw the civs over behind the scenes for days. I'll be happy to vote an outspoken, contributing weirdo later with more evidence
3) I find none of the "major pings" people are having to be much of anything to go off of so far.
I agree with BR's stance on policy lynches, so there's that.
From what I remember of Zebra's gameplay, her reaction to being accused doesn't ping me and looks pretty normal. I am, however, keeping an eye on who chooses to jump on this "suspicion." It seems too easy.
I agree that while Mac's stated reasons for policy-voting Matt are sound (gauging reactions, starting conversation), I also agree with FZ that the execution of said reasons has not allowed those reasons come to fruition, and has only resulted in our discussing policy lynches in general and not much baddie hunting.

Damn! I always underestimate how long these posts take to write! I have to shower and get ready for trivia, but I figured I'd at least share my thoughts so far, as incoherent/incomplete as they may be. As far as voting, I'll likely either vote someone jumping on a tenuous suspicion without contributing to it with their thoughts, or someone who I believe is hiding in the shadows for far too long by tomorrow. I'll attempt to keep up via phone and whatnot.

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou wrote:More thoughts.

I'm torn, frankly. I said before that I believed Zebra's reaction to be genuine and didn't agree with the suspicion, but I liked Golden's long post regarding both the reasons for going after an overreactor, and also reiterating the specific reasons why Zebra should be voted. As Zebra's suspicion of Golden was broken down in the thread, I disagree that Golden would have "no civ reason" to suspect and question Mac's behavior, and think that Golden's initial suspicion of Mac was sound until he was questioned further (in other words, I either see Zebra's suspicion of Golden at this point as very misguided or fabricated). That, to me, was questioning a suspicion as it should be, then changing one's mind based on the responses. People don't do that often enough. So, based on the big post and these thoughts, part of me is inclined to vote Zebra, despite my initial reaction.

BUT.

Too often, I see, as others are saying, one big argument between two people, often civs, that distracts everyone from the baddies' hiding, so the baddies don't even have to discuss any of their teammates. Like FZ, I'm also pinged by Eloh, especially what appeared to me to be an immediate jumping on Zebra's reaction, and her responses to suspicion aren't making me feel any better (except that I totally believe her regarding comfort level in speed/side games, because I'm the same way and feel I can get involved earlier). sig's jumping on the Zebra suspicion pings me in the same way, like a baddie just waiting for something to jump on.

BUT. DAMMIT.

I am suspecting both a suspicious individual, based on a big argument and Day 1 case, and the people "suspecting" her (in quotations depending on what happens today, I suppose), and god that's making my head hurt. I find Golden's points compelling, there's more info to go on for Zebra than for my other suspicions at this point, and I think it will be telling if the lynch goes through in many ways. I've literally got to run (while the sun's still out ), and I don't want to agonize over this choice for any longer. Voting Zebra.

She addresses the inconsistency in her vote post, but it's quite elaborate and comes off as convoluted and perhaps even rehearsed.

On Day 2, she attempts to vote for Eloh in a post that comes off as even more staged, but whoever the vote-changer person is took Eloh off the poll that day. So she votes sig.

Spoiler: show

FZ just recently made light of how bizarre this vote seems when up against the other voters of sig in the first two days who wound up dead. On it's own, I don't think it's that much of a ping and could fairly easily be chalked up to coincidence, but in the greater context of niju's ISO it's a lot more damning of her alignment to me.

Spoiler: show

All I have to say about the post above is, how convenient. The rest of her ISO that I would consider suspicious has also already been covered by FZ. It's not as much content as I would like but right now (along with Luke) it seems like the most agreeable lynch.

#1379

a2thezebra wrote:
Matt F wrote:I know this is going to sound crazy guys, but believe it or not, I have actually used my computer, eaten food, AND watched TV at the same time.
Right, but have you ever felt obligated to?

Listen, I'm not saying bea does not have the right to a pizza/football storm. We all have that right. It just seems curious that the day after she self votes, she doesn't vote at all. Also, I'm very much leaning civ on SVS right now, but considering she was absolutely wrong on me, I'm not inclined to simply trust her on bea.

For real.

On top of that, does nobody think it odd that bea was asking me to divulge more information regarding Sorsha/lie detector ("Why do you think she has a lie detector?"), then a day or two later infers I was "crossing a line" ?

Anyway, not gonna get crazy on this. I really feel like I want to, but then Mac might have an aneurysm. I've laid out my case. I would like bea to respond to it.

#1380

MacDougall wrote:I believe I can see where what you are suggesting makes some sense. I will have to ponder on it.

Elo did you have a scum read of sig yesterday and if so why didn't you vote for him?

I didn't.

Turnip Head wrote:I agree that my voting record looks scummy as hell. I have no intentions of disputing that fact.

I have no idea what's going on in this game.

I can sympathize with the first part of this port. I have had a scummy voting record before while civ and it is frustrating as hell. The second part of the this post concerns me though. Why would Turnip Head not know what is going on. He is a good mafia player. Can you explain, TH?

@Matt - your case on Bea is very convincing. I hadn't reread her alone yet and seeing all her posts together like that seems pretty damning. I could get behind a bea vote today.

#1381

And I see no mention of MM in her posts whatsoever.

#1382

Rereading SVS "I am not" (considering a bea vote) and "I feel very strongly bea is not on a baddie team"

If you are basing that on more then a hunch, then I will listen to reason (I know, unheard of right?). If you are basing that on me making a case on her, and you thinking I'm bad, then I would ask that you reconsider.

Which one?

#1383

Elohcin wrote:And I see no mention of MM in her posts whatsoever.

At one point, I believe she "channels MM" and asks a player (forget which one) if they are bad or not. Otherwise, no, she didn't mention him to my knowledge either. And was also conveniently absent all day for his lynch.

Eloh - Why do Golden and Sorsha vouch for you?

#1384

Matt F wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
No one has been killed.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.
bea, does this outcome surprise you? Who do you think was targeted, if anyone?

I'm pretty happy about no kills. I'm not sure why you ask if that suprises me? It's not completely uncommon for a pm to not get sent in or for a kill to get blocked. Are you asking who I think was targeted for a kill? I have no idea.

#1385

bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
No one has been killed.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.
bea, does this outcome surprise you? Who do you think was targeted, if anyone?
I'm pretty happy about no kills. I'm not sure why you ask if that suprises me? It's not completely uncommon for a pm to not get sent in or for a kill to get blocked. Are you asking who I think was targeted for a kill? I have no idea.

I would think the target is Sorsha. How could it not be? Especially after all of the target painting.

Looking forward to your thoughts on my case. Why does SVS vouch for you?

#1386

Matt F wrote:
Elohcin wrote:And I see no mention of MM in her posts whatsoever.
At one point, I believe she "channels MM" and asks a player (forget which one) if they are bad or not. Otherwise, no, she didn't mention him to my knowledge either. And was also conveniently absent all day for his lynch.

Eloh - Why do Golden and Sorsha vouch for you?

They both seem to understand my alignment because of the Sig votes and lynch. I will tell you the the same lynch confirmed my read on you, him, and Mac.

#1387

Btw, Happy Birthday dudette

Okey dokey. Subtlety is a word I've yet to find in my dictionary, but I will reread to see what's up. I do believe I remember you predicting there would be more votes for sig later in the day, and then SVS comes in with the vote change, so there's that.

#1388

What are your current thoughts on Blooper and Luke, Eloh?

#1389

Matt F wrote:Looking over the polls...

bea self voted Day 1. If I'm correct, the only confirmed meta we have on Bea, re: self voting, is a game where she was bad, right? I believe Mac asked her for a game where was civ and self voted, and bea said...

bea wrote:I honestly feel like my time would be better spent looking at this game than searching all the games I've played to find an example.

On Day 1, the leading candidates were Zebra 1.0 (civvie), Eloh (currently Golden/Sorsha believe her to be civ aligned, correct?) with three votes a piece, and sig with two votes. So, one civvie, one potential civvie, and one baddie were bea's choices. She self-votes instead.

On Day 2, bea missed the vote completely. This is the day that MM was lynched. In response to missing the vote...

bea wrote:I'm very sorry I missed the vote. My sunday got away from me in a storm of football and pizza.
Did anyone challenge bea on this? The day phase after she self votes, she misses a vote where Mafia is successfully lynched. Because of the football/pizza storm. I know this is going to sound crazy guys, but believe it or not, I have actually used my computer, eaten food, AND watched TV at the same time. I know it sounds wild, but it's true.

On Day 3, bea pushes Floyd into a tie with sig. But I'm not surprised, after all, this is what bea had been saying about sig all day...

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Golden wrote:@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.
And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?
I asked why sig when he was talked about day 1. Sig and Eloh's names were flying all over the thread in the 12th hour and no one would answer me. So yea, eloh - I'd like an answer to "why sig" too.

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:I still don't understand why sig was getting votes at the late hours of day 1 and NOONE has explained it to me.

Then BR was killed N1 - when she suspected sig. Then I talked to sig and felt ok about him - now this.

Day 2 they lost Marrmot. That has to be a huge hit to their team. So they NK N2 Drac/devin who also suspcted sig early on because you know - deflection and junk.

So yea, I'm pretty leary that the 3 peeps were force voted and NOONE can still give me a decent case about why sig is so bad.

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:I think whatever put sig in the position he is currently in was redirected. I think the votes were forced probably in conjunction with the redirect to sig to get rid of him. I don't know why, but it seems like people have been trying to get rid of sig since day 1.

And again, no one can tell me why.

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:I think 3 votes at the start of the day with no explanation is a super sign of forced votes don't you?

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:I think golden flat out saying "I"m sorry I'm on this train" is a signal.

I think eloh's constant talk about redirect roles is a signal.

Don't you?

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:and I will ask this again LOUD AND IN CAPS SO NO ONE CAN IGNORE ME - WHAT IS THE CASE ON SIG? WHY IS HE BAD???

Spoiler: show
bea wrote:re: sig - I think that's just it though, there's been a vauge nondescript steady lynch pull for sig since br died. By Marhsmellow's hand - but no one who actually mentions his name or suspects him can articulate why he is bad in any way outside of how you just did.

I've tried to find a case and I can't. If I missed it - someone please link me back.

That just REAKS of set up to me.
The above looks like a bea who really does not want sig lynched. Like, really bad doesn't want him gone. Before hearing "Why would bea cry so hard over a teamie?", can I at least get an agreement that this looks like a bea who really does not want sig lynched?

You know what else interests me about bea, btw?

After our convo last night, where bea was telling me how I crossed the line "target painting" Sorsha, I found this post...

NOVEMBER 3RD, 3:44 AM

bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but it stands out to me.
Why do you think Sorsha has a lie detector role?
Am I dreaming? This looks like bea asking me why I think Sorsha has a lie detector role. She even apologizes if it's already been addressed, but in case it hasn't, she'd like to know why I think Sorsha has a lie detect role. By asking me that, I'm assuming she expected me to answer and give her the reason why I thought that?

What a weird question from someone, who two days later would tell me I "crossed the line" in regards to Sorsha. I mean, you would think, bea would not have asked me to dive further into my reasoning regarding Sorsha and having a lie detect. Right?

Anyway, the self-vote Day 1, the no vote Day 2 because of pizza/football storms, and the push tie vote for Floyd Day 3 really make me wonder where bea stands.

Tomorrow I will look up ISO's on sig and MM to see where they were on bea, unless someone would like to help me with that? Anyway...

Toodles!

I haven't voted great for sure.
I'm often floundering around with my thoughts and opinions. I was not blessed with any kind of info this game and I'm indecisive as hell.
I did self vote day 1 because I got done working literally 15 minutes before the poll ended. All that stuff that happens late in the poll end? I'm working during them. All the time. 8pm est is smack in the middle of dinner rush. Regardless of the shift I work (open or closing) I'm busy then. The storm of pizza and football sounds like fun to everyone except the PEPLE WHO HAVE TO MAKE ALL THE PIZZA. That would be me. You all get to sit around and have a good time. I work my ass off to get you dinner as quickly as possible. I'm not trying by any means to hid behind my job but it's a very real factor in my levels and times of participation. It is my first priority.

Sure. I voted sig. I thought it was unlikely that he was bad given the force votes. I did the best I could. I'm sorry it wasn't good enough.

I asked why you thought Sorsha was a lie detector specifically because I was wondering why you would assign her a particular role. As I have said, there is more than one way to gain info in mafia games and while it may be obvious that she has some sort of info role, why would you want to assign her a role? That was the target painting I was talking about. That was my whole point. I am sure I didn't do a good enough job explaining it. This is my fault entirely.

I'm not bad. I do not have btsc. I'm doing the very best I can. I will not go through the many, many games I've played on here, Rev, Hedville, and LP to find you an example of when I self voted as a civ. Again, you are welcome to do it. I know they exist. But that is a herculian task Matt and I do have better things to do with my time. I have just enough time to play the game to keep caught up and try to remember to vote.

#1390

I didn't realize...did you mean you were working via "pizza/football storm" ? I took that to mean you were chillin' out at home, watchin' football and eatin' pizza.

Be back in a bit.

#1391

FZ. wrote:I think we should look at Blooper and Luke today and not only TH.

If you look at those who were NK the first two nights, they were both people who voted Sig on day 1. On day 2, Blooper voted Sig, when she was the only one and he wasn't close to being lynched, while Drac didn't, yet Blooper didn't die night 2, but Drac did.

In addition, I don't have time to quote all of Blooper's post from before last day's lynch, but if you go read back you'll see that she starts off saying it seems Floyd's name is being thrown around but people are hesitant to vote him. The, she give a few reasons why Floyd might not be the baddie, but then gradually starts shifting her opinion. She still says she's a little suspicious of Sig, but the 3 vote manipulation is making her hesitate.
If anyone can do an ISO of her, that would be great.

As for Luke-
Why is Luke so afraid to take a stance? He keeps voting for people who are not going to be lynched and like zebra said, his "don't know" posts are getting old. That's all he's done. Oh no, wait, he also said Floyd doesn't look bad to him only after the deadline which brought a tie between MM and Floyd. Was he setting himself to look good if Floyd was the one lynched? Because right now, it looks as though Floyd is good, which makes Luke look worse in my opinion. Notice he didn't make any comment on MM, just Floyd.

TH-
His record is bad, but so is mine. Like I said before, if I had to guess, I'd say TH is a third party. He's involved, but not as I expect. Yet his statements seem rather genuine.
But hell, what do I know, right?

Your thoughts on blooper, luke and TH make sense to me FZ. I tried to ask Luke somewhere if this was his first game or not, but I'm sure it slipped through the cracks.

I *think* Luke and Nannarbobaner are the two friends Floyed talked into playing. I'd like to hear more from them both in general, but if they are new to the game, the floundering would make more sense.

#1392

Matt F wrote:I didn't realize...did you mean you were working via "pizza/football storm" ? I took that to mean you were chillin' out at home, watchin' football and eatin' pizza.

Be back in a bit.

I am the GM of a pizza shop. I'm the boss. Which means, I always get the short end of the stick. Someone calls in sick? I have to stay over. Some one's car breaks down? I have to stay over. I work roughly 60 hours a week - not counting meetings - in a job that is physically and mentally demanding and has VERY limited free time for interpreting. If you look at the times I'm around you will see they are consistently later in the est time zone. Subtract the 2 hour difference and it's roughly usually after 9 pm my time. Unless I close - which sometimes can mean I'm getting done with work at 3 am my time and enjoying a few well earned beers as you all are waking up in the am. My posts are often franticly made from my phone at work and sometimes not well explained. I'm sorry for that, again, the fault is mine.

Today is a weird day. I have a wifey obligation tonight with my hubby so we are enjoying a VERY rare friday off together and I'm sneeking in some mafia with coffee while he does his football stuffs.

#1393

Matt F wrote:Btw, Happy Birthday dudette

Okey dokey. Subtlety is a word I've yet to find in my dictionary, but I will reread to see what's up. I do believe I remember you predicting there would be more votes for sig later in the day, and then SVS comes in with the vote change, so there's that.

Yes, and the host confirmed that he allowed it~ he had to change the poll options to allow it

#1394

Matt F wrote:
bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
No one has been killed.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.
bea, does this outcome surprise you? Who do you think was targeted, if anyone?
I'm pretty happy about no kills. I'm not sure why you ask if that suprises me? It's not completely uncommon for a pm to not get sent in or for a kill to get blocked. Are you asking who I think was targeted for a kill? I have no idea.
I would think the target is Sorsha. How could it not be? Especially after all of the target painting.

Looking forward to your thoughts on my case. Why does SVS vouch for you?

How would she know? I read back through her posts and sorted through them, and I thought she was sincere, and she does not appear to me to have BTS.

#1395

S~V~S wrote:
Matt F wrote:Btw, Happy Birthday dudette

Okey dokey. Subtlety is a word I've yet to find in my dictionary, but I will reread to see what's up. I do believe I remember you predicting there would be more votes for sig later in the day, and then SVS comes in with the vote change, so there's that.
Yes, and the host confirmed that he allowed it~ he had to change the poll options to allow it

Lol. i wasn't suggesting anything nefarious on your part. Just stating Eloh's "prediction".

bea - I knew you were in the restaurant biz, but it didn't register with pizza/football storm. M'bad.

bea - Do you have reason to believe your target was protected last night? Do you have reason to believe that someone may be blocking you?

#1396

Matt. I have no reason to believe any of those things because I have no nefarious intentions. If I was blocked last night, that wasn't the reason there weren't any kills.

In the case you seem to be implying (that I am a killer who was blocked - let's not dance around it k? I like plain, clear and simple.)
A + B does not = C.

If you believed I was blocked, maybe I was. The host did not inform me if I was or not. But my potential blocking has nothing to do with the lack of kills last night.

#1397

bea wrote:Matt. I have no reason to believe any of those things because I have no nefarious intentions. If I was blocked last night, that wasn't the reason there weren't any kills.

In the case you seem to be implying (that I am a killer who was blocked - let's not dance around it k? I like plain, clear and simple.)
A + B does not = C.

If you believed I was blocked, maybe I was. The host did not inform me if I was or not. But my potential blocking has nothing to do with the lack of kills last night.

Who's dancing around? I feel I'm being pretty straight forward.

Anywho, your willingness to answer my inquiries is cool beans. I did not take into consideration that you were working the pizza/football storm.

Who are your top suspects today?

Besides you, I like FZ, zebra, TH in that order.

#1398

I wouldn't be a big fan of a ninja vote today. I really didn't like her day one vote, but since then I've felt like I'm seeing civ ninja.

#1399

That kind of felt out of the blue, but I just did an iso.

#1400

Elohcin wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I agree that my voting record looks scummy as hell. I have no intentions of disputing that fact.

I have no idea what's going on in this game.
I can sympathize with the first part of this port. I have had a scummy voting record before while civ and it is frustrating as hell. The second part of the this post concerns me though. Why would Turnip Head not know what is going on. He is a good mafia player. Can you explain, TH?

I've just been wrong about almost everything so far and it's making me doubt my reads.

I think Luke looks bad for his vote outside the wagons yesterday. He had previously defended Floyd so I don't think he could have voted there, but he also didn't vote for sig. In a tie vote between a baddie and the one person he's felt was civ, Luke threw his vote away and left it up to chance.

I still have my eye on Floyd and ninja but not as much as I did previously. Floyd has been the second wagon against two baddies in a row and has voted for both of them out of necessity, but he also isn't contributing, so it's a wash. Ninja's Day 1 and 2 votes still stand out as seeming off, but I think the fact that she switched from Elo to sig on Day 2 looks a little better for her, because she had expressed suspicion of sig earlier.

Bea sounds genuine to me.

Who killed S~V~S?