[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

#8501

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Diiny wrote:What else was the SK doing on night 5? Probably not missing his PM.
As Jay pointed out, he still kills nightly.

Clearly not.

linki J: I'm going to the station to pick up my girlfriend, then we're having dinner. That should all be done in about an hour and a bit. I'll post what I've come up with on the two Rs.

#8502

We have proposals and we have nice dinners with girlfriends. Meanwhile I have eight billion posts in a Mafia game. I have got to find a life.

#8503

WAIT IT'S FUCKING OBVIOUS

IF I WAS SK WHY WOULDN'T I JUST NO KILL LAST NIGHT TO MAKE MYSELF LOOK BETTER

THAT'S SOME RISKY FUCKING SHIT FOR A DOUBLE BLUFF

Okay seriously going now but chew on that

#8504

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:We have proposals and we have nice dinners with girlfriends. Meanwhile I have eight billion posts in a Mafia game. I have got to find a life.

I'd probably have more than seven billions posts if I didn't miss Days 2 & 3. :P

#8505

Diiny wrote:WAIT IT'S FUCKING OBVIOUS

IF I WAS SK WHY WOULDN'T I JUST NO KILL LAST NIGHT TO MAKE MYSELF LOOK BETTER

THAT'S SOME RISKY FUCKING SHIT FOR A DOUBLE BLUFF

Okay seriously going now but chew on that

Riiiight, now you come with this bluff, when you're at the end of pulling out arguments.

I called the SK inconsistent for leaving his N5 hole stick out instead of improvising a no kill pattern hours ago. You ain't convincing me.

#8506

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:We have proposals and we have nice dinners with girlfriends. Meanwhile I have eight billion posts in a Mafia game. I have got to find a life.

I'm taking a break from girlfriends excepting nice dinners and especially proposals (still not over the suffering tbh...), but I should also take a break from Mafia, which I will.

#8507

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Alternative theories to consider and my immediate thoughts:

MM is the SK -- would have to mean that there are tally-affecting mechanics in the SK's *secrets* which would seem to make that role immensely powerful. That doesn't mean it isn't the case, but it forces us to speculate in a completely unknown realm. I do think his recent behavior is suggestive of a player who's role has been correctly identified too.

MM would have died last Day, if the SK. I cannot fathom the SK not being able to be lynched. It's too OP - in fact, it'd be broken as fark. Think of it: the SK gets to kill three or four players during two Nights, but we wouldn't be able to lynch him during a Day? Implausible.

Besides, the D12 lynch wasn't a technical failure ("nobody has been lynched"), someone other than MM was lynched.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: MM is mafia -- This would likely mean that Drugs is still alive and the motel room lynch was coordinated accordingly. His team mate could easily be either Rico or Russ in this scenario. If this is the case though, the game is essentially over for the townies barring some really lucky breaks. It's also possible Wilgy was Drugs and MM is the last mafioso. The lasting concern for me is that when his lynch seemed imminent he vanished from the thread in such a way that it made me feel really good about how he'd flip. I again reiterate though that in this phase he has behaved like a player whose role has been figured out (without outing himself). While my concerns persist, I don't know if we can afford to rely on a theory this complex.

It's true your Drugs theory can match with my And She Was theory - and I also can tell that you have personal feelings causing you to do a Drugs + Blind equation, but I'm confident of what happened being related to my theory.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Rico is the SK -- The possibility exists only if the Night 5 problem can be resolved somehow, but if it can be then sure it's there. The primary issue I have is Rico's consistent immense effort throughout the game which would invite night kill attention from the mafia team and doesn't quite seem like self-aligned play. It could be that the *secrets* involve night kill protection of some kind which would be a bit less overpowered than lynch protection.

The N5 problem can't be solved from my angle. I wouldn't miss out on sending such a power, if I were SK, and I would not abstain from sending the kill in order to trick the community. Plus, I already said that, if by any absurd stretch of the imagination, I would have abstained, I would later have replicated the pattern to keep tricking the community, not goof around chaotically, like the real SK did.

I cannot say why my efforts have not costed me my life until now, but I can tell you for sure that any attempt on my life going through would have terminated me. Maybe I was protected during a Night (I did ask for it, after sinking Mac, I think). Maybe my killer was blocked. I don't know and can't tell, but I am most certainly not bulletproof on my own.

#8508

Diiny wrote:It has to be the case. I'm not the SK and the SK didn't kill. Either the SK missed a PM, which is unlikely, or PSK **can** kill every night but doesn't **have to**.

Also, if this were the case and the idea that I was the SK (which emerged pretty early) was formed because I was away, I'm sure the PSK found it within his interest to not substitute his kill for whatever the fuck he was doing on night 5.

Why is SK missing a PM unlikely? Why is it unlikelier than abstinence.

Plus, I said I'm open to suggestions on what can explain the SK's behaviour, but then you keep circling around missing action or abstinence, and insist on refuting the very thing that incriminates you and tell us to look elsewhere.

Nah.

I don't understand what you mean with the second paragraph.

Diiny wrote:OR. PSK tried to kill ??? from night 4 again, not realising that there's a double targeting rule until it was too late?

Something like this has to have happened, because I'm not the sk. As much as you all believe it. Gah

Highly unlikely. Plus, would the Hosts actually strip him of his kill if he'd make a double-target error? Do Hosts here do that?

I studied a theory of Swamp being killed on Night 4 and causing the SK to be paralysed on N5, but I am certain Golden was not Swamp (it's still pretty obvious who he was, after all) and Swamp would have still been killed, so it couldn't have been "????".

More replies after dinner.

#8509

The Swamp role specifically says it's triggered by a mafia night kill target. It shouldn't have any bearing on the SK.

#8510

Diiny wrote:I'd also like to point out that during my discussions with rico, we disagreed over what SK-ish behaviour is like, he suggested 'not finding things to be able to grasp onto' as SKish. I'm reminded of the night bullzeye was lynched (I think?) when he had his meltdown and looked very much as if he was struggling to find things to grasp onto.

Now, when we discussed this I said I didn't think being publicly lost and ambivalent was something the SK would do, but who knows Rico's SK game better than Rico?

I referenced an indy game of mine, not an SK game of mine. I was never SK so far, nor am I now. "Who knows better my SK game than me?" Heck, not even me. :P

My Bullzeye meltdown was due to a horrible Day phase in terms of activity, research and reflecting on a vote choice. It's all in there.

linki: Even better. Swamp couldn't have had anything to do with SK not killing.

#8511

Diiny wrote:I'm also reminded of Rico being SUPER defensive AND wifommy on that day where I voted for him early on, and I'd expect the SK to be even more defensive than mafia. Also, his frustration of putting scum as a green skittle (his defence of which is the subject of said wifom) as the SK makes perfect sense. My gut is telling me Rico SK at this stage.

You do remember that confrontation was about me being mafia, right?

The subject of said wifom was that I would never put a teammate as a green skittle, knowing it can blow in my face, not that I was frustrated to have given green skittle to a scum.

Nice spin on what happened, though, I'll give you that.

Anyway, people of all alignments should be able to figure out already who I might be. My D6 tirade against Mac speaks for itself, admist other phases where I wobbled or not like jello. In fact, it speaks for itself especially considering the other phases in which I was jello man. My jump on you and the others on N12 should also speak for itself, in this regard.

I'm Deduction Man.

The SK is not Deduction Man. He's Everybody Please Drop Dead Man.

#8512

I'll be gone until after the deadline. Hopefully night lasts at least a few hours, but we'll see what MP wants to do I guess.

My vote stays on Diiny.

#8513

Dinner's in the oven. Pudding in the fridge.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'll be gone until after the deadline.

Town loses. MM's votes are worth too many to counter, right?

#8514

MM, dude, if you're reading this you need to find a way to come back a tad before the deadline, even on a phone or something.

#8515

Diiny wrote:Dinner's in the oven. Pudding in the fridge.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'll be gone until after the deadline.
Town loses. MM's votes are worth too many to counter, right?

MM's vote is worth 1.

#8516

I thought it was worth like one billion

Or is that negative votes on him? ?

#8517

Diiny wrote:I thought it was worth like one billion

Or is that negative votes on him? ?

Aye.

#8518

Swell

#8519

You should vote MM, btw.

#8520

#8521

Oh, good joke

#8522

Might change my vote to Rico.

#8523

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Might change my vote to Rico.

You still want to win this, after 37 days and 1400 posts, right? 'Cause then, you should do anything but vote for me.

Did you solve the N5 dilemma or what am I missing?

#8524

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Might change my vote to Rico.
You still want to win this, after 37 days and 1400 posts, right? 'Cause then, you should do anything but vote for me.

Did you solve the N5 dilemma or what am I missing?

Diiny is showing earnest emotion. You're showing snark.

#8525

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Might change my vote to Rico.
You still want to win this, after 37 days and 1400 posts, right? 'Cause then, you should do anything but vote for me.

Did you solve the N5 dilemma or what am I missing?
Diiny is showing earnest emotion. You're showing snark.

Where is the snark? Diiny is coming with more and more illogical, grasp-at things. It's my duty to make sure the last baddies don't lure the other civs into not finishing them.

It's why I sent Russ' girlfriend over at his place.

And, again, you're suddenly judging tone instead of logic, after the above amount of days and posts you've invested focusing on the second, because...?

#8526

Ricochet wrote:And, again, you're suddenly judging tone instead of logic, after the above amount of days and posts you've invested focusing on the second, because...?

People tend to be the most revealing in crunch time.

#8527

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:And, again, you're suddenly judging tone instead of logic, after the above amount of days and posts you've invested focusing on the second, because...?
People tend to be the most revealing in crunch time.

If that would be always the case with handling defenses and rebuttals, civs would never win a game ever.

And yes, before I'm being pointed at myself, I can get very intense, but I also counter with trying to make people understand why I don't look the way people wrongfully accuse me to.

What are you getting from Diiny, in this regard, right now? Your last impressions was that you don't get what his trying to say with his PSK N5 theories and that you'd rather let him finish his cases, rather than keep conversing on the same cliffnotes.

#8528

Ricochet wrote:What are you getting from Diiny, in this regard, right now?

Not much. I was lying about changing my vote.

#8529

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:What are you getting from Diiny, in this regard, right now?
Not much. I was lying about changing my vote.

You never tricked me for a second.

#8530

The truth is that my vote is not etched in stone, but I need to be sold on a better option than Diiny. There's still time Diiny but you have to hurry if you have something substantial. You might even want to post whatever you might have in fragments so there's time to talk about it.

#8531

There's more ways to interpret that first bit of your paragraph.

#8532

I have nothing substantial. I haven't come up with a theory that explains no, I haven't found any damming gem on Rico or Russ. As ever, all I have is my reads.

I think Rico is the SK. Compare his responses to me to J's. J looks like someone who has an opinion on the SK and is in touch with the evidence, but still attempts to understand and give a chance to that person he suspects because he's not trying to force the SK label onto anyone; rather, he's doing the opposite: looking for who the SK is. I don't blame him for thinking it's me at this point. But Rico's responses to me today don't look like he's even trying to tell whether I'm SK or scum, as he's claiming is the only possible alignments for me. Reading his responses you'd forget there was another player in his book that could be the SK. Nothing strikes me here as indicative of a viewpoint that's *looking for the sk*, it feels he's more interested in just dismissing me as if he knows I'm the sk. He's tunneling. He's not looking for the sk because he is the sk, he's just projecting the label as hard as he can onto me. That, plus the stuff I mentioned about his game previously. (Also his teliance and heavy use of neutral detail.)

I'll be on my laptop again soon to actually reference my thoughts.

I'm not the sk, and by my thinking a mislynch loses town the game

#8533

And and I'm voting appropriately rico

#8534

I've tried to look at you as mafia, Diiny, but, although in the recap that I did up to D6 there were some signs to be interpreted (particularly D2 and D3), I cannot find it in any way likelier than you being SK, because of D6. And since you and Russ have to be the last baddies, of which I'm certain, this further deduction follows as such.

I did do an effort (incomplete, no doubt, because of my limited time) to filter again your history through the SK lens, but as far as the latest responses go, they're responses to what you are puttting up for discussion. Which I find it to be ideas you can't entirely clarify, that don't make too much sense or that you're using to wiggle or to throw it all back on me.

#8535

I will note that a SK role wouldn't preclude Rico from the privilege of drawing the deductions this phase that he has drawn. Even if he makes a concerted effort to confirm MM and I, one mislynch is probably all he'd need to win. So the potential for a setup job by Rico does exist.

#8536

Hi Russ. Everyone knows you're mafia and your lynch is imminent and inevitable.

I hope it's been a good weekend for you though!

#8537

Oh wow, there's 8 pages. You guys are awesome, for real.

I warned you guys ahead of time I would do this, so please don't hate me, but I'm gonna write a SUPER fast post here, vote, and leave to spend time with my new fiancée!!!!! I skimmed one of the 8 pages you guys wrote while I was out this weekend.

I agree with the assessment that Diiny is likely the SK. On my previous reread, he looked less like it than I had thought originally, but since then a lot of people have died and of the remaining he fits the profile best to me. I think we have to get the SK today, so I support the vote on him.

I sill don't know whether JJJ or Rico is more likely to be bad. I'm inclined to think the SK did us a favor with Wilgy, so it seems reasonable to hope only one of them is. I will be back to fully active tomorrow evening, and I look forward to finding whoever it is and taking him out.

Linki: Hi JJJ. You're wrong, but even if you were right, getting the SK is clearly more important today, so if you think I'm mafia you shouldn't lynch me until tomorrow. Diiny seems most likely SK to me, although tinfoil does say Rico could be. If we're wrong we're fucked, so I hope my tinfoil is just that. It has been the best weekend ever!

#8538

Russtifinko wrote:I warned you guys ahead of time I would do this, so please don't hate me, but I'm gonna write a SUPER fast post here, vote, and leave to spend time with my new fiancée!!!!!

It has been the best weekend ever!

#8539

Congrats Russ!

#8540

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I will note that a SK role wouldn't preclude Rico from the privilege of drawing the deductions this phase that he has drawn. Even if he makes a concerted effort to confirm MM and I, one mislynch is probably all he'd need to win. So the potential for a setup job by Rico does exist.

Whilst true that simply by knowing myself not being bad doesn't exclude me to others from the equation, but, again, my deduction and confirming efforts should point at something that a SK could not be truly invested with. The mafia's process of elimination, so to speak, is everyone not part of them. The SK's process of elimination is everyone but him. This is not the process I have been doing.

Congratulations, Russ!!

Did you use drugs or thanked her for sending an angle into your life?

#8541

Issue with Diiny's language today:

He's asserted that elements of the casing against him, primarily the group adherence to Night 5, makes him "uneasy".

If he's town it should make him burn with the fire of a thousand dragons.

#8542

two linkis and I still didn't correct that typo:

angel*

#8543

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I will note that a SK role wouldn't preclude Rico from the privilege of drawing the deductions this phase that he has drawn. Even if he makes a concerted effort to confirm MM and I, one mislynch is probably all he'd need to win. So the potential for a setup job by Rico does exist.
Whilst true that simply by knowing myself not being bad doesn't exclude me to others from the equation, but, again, my deduction and confirming efforts should point at something that a SK could not be truly invested with. The mafia's process of elimination, so to speak, is everyone not part of them. The SK's process of elimination is everyone but him. This is not the process I have been doing.

Solving the game is a crucial element of appearing a part of the town cause. I think any SK would make an effort to do that in this phase.

#8544

I know they're bad j, and I'd love to go dragon mode. Trust me. But I need to find the sk specifically, and as much as I'd love there to be in haven't been able to find something that makes me sure enough that one of them is 100% SK. I still HAVE to play this day like any other or we'll lose by not lynching sk

#8545

Russtifinko wrote:Linki: Hi JJJ. You're wrong, but even if you were right, getting the SK is clearly more important today, so if you think I'm mafia you shouldn't lynch me until tomorrow. Diiny seems most likely SK to me, although tinfoil does say Rico could be. If we're wrong we're fucked, so I hope my tinfoil is just that. It has been the best weekend ever!

Now I'm scared.

#8546

And yeah, my fear is that Rico wins tomorrow so he can just pin me as sk

#8547

Feel my fear
I have no rage, just FEAR

#8548

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I will note that a SK role wouldn't preclude Rico from the privilege of drawing the deductions this phase that he has drawn. Even if he makes a concerted effort to confirm MM and I, one mislynch is probably all he'd need to win. So the potential for a setup job by Rico does exist.
Whilst true that simply by knowing myself not being bad doesn't exclude me to others from the equation, but, again, my deduction and confirming efforts should point at something that a SK could not be truly invested with. The mafia's process of elimination, so to speak, is everyone not part of them. The SK's process of elimination is everyone but him. This is not the process I have been doing.
Solving the game is a crucial element of appearing a part of the town cause. I think any SK would make an effort to do that in this phase.

Make the distinction, then. It's in your interest, as town, to figure out what tools I might have and am using in "solving the game". If I were SK, I would have no such tools and would rather be bluffing, both about myself and the one(s) I'm trying to paint as bad.

I have not yet been caught cheating with the town in such a manner, to such a huge extent, either by being bad or rogue and this game won't be the day it happens, either. I am town and I am giving it all that I have.

#8549

Diiny wrote:And yeah, my fear is that Rico wins tomorrow so he can just pin me as sk

If you flip mafia instead of SK, I'd very likely have to put up with hell tomorrow, so that MM and JJJ won't pick me over Russ and crash the whole town game into ashes. How is that "winning tomorrow"?

#8550

Someone I played with in both champs games by the username of Achromatic had a huge influence on me in just those two games by his ability to accurately read players at face value.

He was always looking for the "town spark", something he asserted is the most difficult thing to mimic as an anti-townie. True enthusiasm to play for town interests at all times.

In this game I've seen it from Rico and perhaps even MM. I've not seen much of it from Russ and it's been sporadic from Diiny.

I hope I'm right.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
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2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

How would you rate Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)?