[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Marmot]

I agree in the end that the lynch Blind tactic can be a tactic in itself. I said I'll wait to see what Russ plans to do with his vote.

I'm still confident things will work out, even if with shenanigan odds. I can't say why, though, but it doesn't have to do with me being any less civ than I am.

Plus, if by any chance today's lynch does fail, and Blind goes down, Drugs can't kill the following Night, so tomorrow we'll still be able to take him down, clear 2 to 1.

I don't see how you can suspect me of being Drugs, with my vote where it is. I don't even see the need to suspect me for making an obvious bored joke about voting elsewhere for a sec. It doesn't change how hard I pushed for the last baddies' lynch.

If you are Drugs, where else would you put your vote? :P

[Ricochet]

I agree in the end that the lynch Blind tactic can be a tactic in itself. I said I'll wait to see what Russ plans to do with his vote.

I'm still confident things will work out, even if with shenanigan odds. I can't say why, though, but it doesn't have to do with me being any less civ than I am.

Plus, if by any chance today's lynch does fail, and Blind goes down, Drugs can't kill the following Night, so tomorrow we'll still be able to take him down, clear 2 to 1.

I don't see how you can suspect me of being Drugs, with my vote where it is. I don't even see the need to suspect me for making an obvious bored joke about voting elsewhere for a sec. It doesn't change how hard I pushed for the last baddies' lynch.

If you are Drugs, where else would you put your vote? :P

If you "were", you must mean...

From an abstract, tactical point of you, I'd vote the player I drugged.

...Actually, that could well be "a" player I drugged, not "the". Keep in mind that Drugs had N10 and N12 to drug players. For all we know, he could have had two victims to choose from and picked wrong (or both players he had to pick from had survival odds). So in theory it could be any two of us three.

Question is, could Drugs (or Russ, specifically; or the mafia team, even broader) have foreshadowed this 2-1 or 3-1 endgame scenario in order to specifically drug Blind, if he (they) would have deduced who he might be from a previous failed attempt?

[Marmot]

Floyd stated that mafia's target on Night 7 was Blind, so I believe they know who it is, and have known for a while.

[Marmot]

The only thing that bothers me about this game is that I won't get a chance to participate in Spectator Chat.

I still haven't gotten to join one on RYM either.

[Ricochet]

Floyd stated that mafia's target on Night 7 was Blind, so I believe they know who it is, and have known for a while.

ture

[Diiny]

ty Rico! You know you have to make a vocaroo now right

[Ricochet]

Hell no. My voice (not that it wasn't trained or anything, I just never put it to good use) and spoken (or sung, heh) English are butts and my chords stem neither from any well-rehearsed logic nor from the heart, but from knowing beforehand how they sit on a score.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hi thread.

[Marmot]

How the hell are you Jay?

[Ricochet]

Hi hi hi hi hi

Hmm, that reminds me, I should symbolically reinsert some references. Although I certainly couldn't maintain this throughout a 39-day / 14-Day game, it'd be nice to cap it off the way I started.

[Russtifinko]

Oh hai guys. Sad to see you've all voted me already, but maybe I can change some minds.

"I'm gonna drug a player I can't night kill."

Sounds a bit counter-productive. He could have easily drugged And She Was and the role got lucky with the odds.

I'll be waiting to see how Russ behaves with his vote, at least.

linki: What Night 6?

Drugs has two options dude. He can drug a player to nightkill them, or he can drug a player and run the lynch-table. With as small as the game is now, Drugs does stand a chance at running the lynch, and we all need to be aware of that.

Drugs failed to nightkill somebody last night, so this is a plausible explanation.

Can someone run me by why we think Drugs (and only Drugs) is alive? It seems we're going on the assumption Wilgy was bad, which seems totally reaosnable to me, but why one role over the other?

I could read the previous 10 pages, but this seems faster.

[Ricochet]

Oh hai guys. Sad to see you've all voted me already, but maybe I can change some minds.

"I'm gonna drug a player I can't night kill."

Sounds a bit counter-productive. He could have easily drugged And She Was and the role got lucky with the odds.

I'll be waiting to see how Russ behaves with his vote, at least.

linki: What Night 6?

Drugs has two options dude. He can drug a player to nightkill them, or he can drug a player and run the lynch-table. With as small as the game is now, Drugs does stand a chance at running the lynch, and we all need to be aware of that.

Drugs failed to nightkill somebody last night, so this is a plausible explanation.

Can someone run me by why we think Drugs (and only Drugs) is alive? It seems we're going on the assumption Wilgy was bad, which seems totally reaosnable to me, but why one role over the other?

I could read the previous 10 pages, but this seems faster.

Uhm. Drugs tried to kill last night? He's literally in here with us.

As for why only Drugs, my deductions are clear. Blind is also here with us, due to his NK immunity, I think MM is And She Was and I'm good. That leaves only you.

[Russtifinko]

Honestly Rico reads the baddest of anyone still alive to me. He had yesterday and today's lynches planned out from before yesterday even started. He sounds like a baddie too eager to "close out the game" to me. And he suggested shenanigans:

I'm thinking of switching to JJJ for a bit, then on MM, then no nvmd, then get back on Russtifinko.

That's how bored I am right now.

You vote for me, and you're getting my vote.

Why, would ending with -5 instead of -6 piss you off that much?

Seriously though, if you're civ, leave your vote where it is.

The serious face in this marmot is strong.

Rico, could you clarify what you mean by Wilgy and I being inseparable? I don't see it that way at all.

Yeah, answering back to some of the questions posed on that EoD is meaningless now, at least for me. In hindsight, I also wished a baddie would have gotten hurt by these shenanigans.

The fact that WIlgy and Russ are hardly separable on three out of four baddie lynches is killing me right now. It really makes me wish the SK would show, at least once in this entire game, some anti-mafia moves (that we can know of or decipher, at least), even if eliminating the mafia could hurt his endgame chances. Alas, I suspect he'll off a civ, probably me.

Russ has been playing this game with a pretty consistent effort, and actually has been going stronger over these last few days. Do you think that is a sign of a baddie Russ?

This may sound like a weird observation on my part, but I had read Russ as bad all game up until Day 10 (I think), and his increase in activity happened right around the same time.

Also, it says you guys are bored. I apologize a final time and thank you all once again for being with me through a super busy but incredible weekend.

[Russtifinko]

Oh hai guys. Sad to see you've all voted me already, but maybe I can change some minds.

"I'm gonna drug a player I can't night kill."

Sounds a bit counter-productive. He could have easily drugged And She Was and the role got lucky with the odds.

I'll be waiting to see how Russ behaves with his vote, at least.

linki: What Night 6?

Drugs has two options dude. He can drug a player to nightkill them, or he can drug a player and run the lynch-table. With as small as the game is now, Drugs does stand a chance at running the lynch, and we all need to be aware of that.

Drugs failed to nightkill somebody last night, so this is a plausible explanation.

Can someone run me by why we think Drugs (and only Drugs) is alive? It seems we're going on the assumption Wilgy was bad, which seems totally reaosnable to me, but why one role over the other?

I could read the previous 10 pages, but this seems faster.

Uhm. Drugs tried to kill last night? He's literally in here with us.

As for why only Drugs, my deductions are clear. Blind is also here with us, due to his NK immunity, I think MM is And She Was and I'm good. That leaves only you.

And/or you.*

*But actually "or" because I'm not bad.

[Ricochet]

Honestly Rico reads the baddest of anyone still alive to me. He had yesterday and today's lynches planned out from before yesterday even started. He sounds like a baddie too eager to "close out the game" to me.

You know who painted me like that the other Day? Diiny. Psycho Killer.

I applaud the effort, but I know what I'm eager to close the game on. The last baddie.

And he suggested shenanigans:

I'm thinking of switching to JJJ for a bit, then on MM, then no nvmd, then get back on Russtifinko.

That's how bored I am right now.

You vote for me, and you're getting my vote.

Why, would ending with -5 instead of -6 piss you off that much?

Seriously though, if you're civ, leave your vote where it is.

The serious face in this marmot is strong.

Rico, could you clarify what you mean by Wilgy and I being inseparable? I don't see it that way at all.

What shenanigans did I suggest here and what do you mean by the Wilgy stuff?

Oh wait, this part:

Yeah, answering back to some of the questions posed on that EoD is meaningless now, at least for me. In hindsight, I also wished a baddie would have gotten hurt by these shenanigans.

The fact that WIlgy and Russ are hardly separable on three out of four baddie lynches is killing me right now. It really makes me wish the SK would show, at least once in this entire game, some anti-mafia moves (that we can know of or decipher, at least), even if eliminating the mafia could hurt his endgame chances. Alas, I suspect he'll off a civ, probably me.

Russ has been playing this game with a pretty consistent effort, and actually has been going stronger over these last few days. Do you think that is a sign of a baddie Russ?

This may sound like a weird observation on my part, but I had read Russ as bad all game up until Day 10 (I think), and his increase in activity happened right around the same time.

Also, it says you guys are bored. I apologize a final time and thank you all once again for being with me through a super busy but incredible weekend.

What I meant was that, in recapping my reads, it was hard to distinguish between how you and Wilgy behaved on three out of four baddies getting lynched.

Back then, Wilgy had not been eliminated from the Diiny - Russ - Wilgy equation that was putting me in a great amount of difficulty as to which of you three are the two remaining baddies (SK and mafia) - assuming there was a civ among you three, of course.

[Russtifinko]

Also, Blind does NOT have to be JJJ. You're only assuming that because he told you he thought he'd be around to endgame. That could also easily be because he and/or you are bad.

Linki: Provide evidence on the Wilgy thing, please, or at least list the baddies you're talking about. That's not a case, that's a baseless accusation.

[Russtifinko]

Also, the shenanigans you proposed were moving votes around willy-nilly. Granted, I support moving votes off of me, but in principle, moving votes just to move them does leave a lot of room for baddies to mess with the lynch, as MM pointed out.

[Ricochet]

I was "more civ than JJJ" yesterday, but now I'm the baddiest of the remaining bunch. Face it, it's the only card you can try to play. As I've said, Diiny did the same and he didn't succeeded.

[Ricochet]

Also, the shenanigans you proposed were moving votes around willy-nilly. Granted, I support moving votes off of me, but in principle, moving votes just to move them does leave a lot of room for baddies to mess with the lynch, as MM pointed out.

I didn't propose anything. I made a joke about current boredom making me flex a bit. I never implied moving my vote in any permanent way.

Also, Blind does NOT have to be JJJ. You're only assuming that because he told you he thought he'd be around to endgame. That could also easily be because he and/or you are bad.

Linki: Provide evidence on the Wilgy thing, please, or at least list the baddies you're talking about. That's not a case, that's a baseless accusation.

He fits the profile and answered my subtle questions the way I expected it.

What baseless accusation? I said they come from past reads. I can certainly go find the analysis for you, but they're certainly there. They're the base.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Of course things start actually happening right when I leave for work.

[Ricochet]

Here you go, Russ. Three out of four baddie lynches, I couldn't distinguish between your and Wilgy's vote placement.

[Russtifinko]

Double "Also..." post....my bad.

Linki: Pretty sure that was 2 days ago, before you started railroading me and before all the other possible suspects died. The fact that you're using reads of you from two days ago in a 4-man lylo is just more evidence that you're trying to end this game without letting us think through what's really going on, and that's because right now, in this precise moment, you are the shadiest of all of us.

To be frank, your base is worthless. First off, that entire post is bunk because it's just taking every vote I, Diiny, and Wilgy made with no context and interpreting it in the worst possible light. Again, more evidence you've been trying to railroad the game to a conclusion without giving time of thinking space for us to come to well-reasoned conclusions in lylo. You're saying Wilgy and I voted for baddies 3 times, and that's true, but it's also the entire extent of the similarities between our play all game. Your case is basically, "When we got a baddie, three out of four times, Russ made a good vote every time. So did Wilgy. Oh, they have nothing else in common at all? I rest my case: they're both bad." I'll remind you that:

(1) None of the other votes you bring up bear any similarity, according to your own analysis.
(2) Wilgy was on the Floyd wagon and I wasn't
(3) My votes put away all three of those baddies.
(4) I was the one to originally make a case on Mac, who was getting little to no suspicion at the time.

With Bullz, Floyd, and BR basically not playing, he was one of 3 active baddies. You're saying I'm Drugs; does it really make sense for me, myself, personally, to place the vote that killed teammates on THREE even Nights, denying myself the ability to use my power, AND to set one of my two active teammates on a remaining team of 6 up for death???

I mean, I've never claimed to be great at mafia, but even I am just not that dumb.


Double Linki: Sorry JJJ, I just got back from work.

[Russtifinko]

Also, very minor point here, but you're lurking. Been up to that all game? Why bother, if you have nothing to hide?

[Tangrowth]

As promised.



Yes, that is how you pronounce Qu'est-ce que c'est.

[Ricochet]

it was on Night 12 and I started making my projections on Night 12. that's before that read I referenced. Right after, Wilgy got killed by Diiny and you and Diiny remained the only logical baddies in my books. I'm using reads from Night 12 onwards, because that's when things cleared up for me. I am trying to end this game based on deductions which made you and Diiny the last baddies.

If you're going to call bunk a post out of multiple reads and analysis I did throughout 14 Days of mafia, that's just weak sauce accusation on your behalf.

That was also a post meant to try to distinguish between you, Diiny and Russ, which one could be the civ among the last two baddies (which was my dilemma at that time). I failed at that step. I did not use that to reach such a daft conclusion that you are both bad. The conclusion was I cannot tell which one of you are bad simply by disseminating the votes.

Yes, it makes perfect for you to act like top lyncher, when in fact you are King Busser. You put your vote on LC when there was no hope left for him, until Golden switched his vote and created some small hope for LC to try to save himself. You put your vote on Mac when the counterwagon (which, turns out, was civ fueled in its entirety) barely was taking shape. You put down Bullzeye due to perfect blending antagonism between the two of you (I wonder what that reminds me of...oh, right, LC and Mac).

You can do nothing to dissuade me, anyway, because I have my skills and my deductions. The former helped me deliver Mac, the latter helped me deliver Diiny as the SK (and that came true) and you as the last baddie (which will no doubt come true). You are even aware of this, which is why you're trying to shoot at me and lure the others to not eliminate you, rather than simply convince me you're not bad.

You are very good at mafia, no doubt about that.

[Ricochet]

Also, very minor point here, but you're lurking.

What?

Been up to that all game?

What?!

14 Days and your last resort is to call me a lurker. Me.

JJJ will probably regard this as snark again, but jesus almighty.

[Ricochet]

Slight correction on the Mac vote placement: Diiny counterwagon had three votes already, including Mac, but then JJJ and Motel switched to BR (erm another baddie!). You finally voted Mac, Mac made his WIFOMy comment "ooh no Russ killed me for good, all hope is gone" and your job was done. Still makes perfect sense to extinguish tracks on you by voting a teammate.

[Russtifinko]

You say you can't tell I m bad by simply disseminating votes, but again, though, your entire analysis is based on 3 votes in the entirety of a 14-Day game. You're ignoring gigantic swaths of evidence because it suits your purposes.

We can bicker all night, but frankly without MM here it's worthless. I say we get him in here, hash it all out once and for all, lynch the final baddie, and call it a game.

[Marmot]

Hi.

[Tangrowth]

Hello.

[Marmot]

I'm here Russ. What's up?

[Marmot]

Oh and hello MP

Hold on, because it's been taken care of.

[Ricochet]

You say you can't tell I m bad by simply disseminating votes, but again, though, your entire analysis is based on 3 votes in the entirety of a 14-Day game. You're ignoring gigantic swaths of evidence because it suits your purposes.

We can bicker all night, but frankly without MM here it's worthless. I say we get him in here, hash it all out once and for all, lynch the final baddie, and call it a game.

You're clinging on to one analysis, which was made at a justified stage when I was attempting to figure out of which one of you three players were at least the two baddies required to be eliminated, and you're just throwing everything up to the kitchen sink to discredit all my other efforts.

If the dilemma above I was trying to solve would have not been inadvertedly solved by Diiny killing Wilgy, I would have followed other paths to try to solve the dilemma. But since the dilemma was solved by night kill events...

My purposes are clean, because I have deducted the final baddies. Diiny was confirmed, you are all that's left.

MM's vote is currently on the final baddie, so...

Interesting you leave out JJJ of the picture. You only need MM's vote to "lynch the final baddie and call it a game"? Hmm.

[Russtifinko]

MM, yay!

What're your thoughts currently?

And Rico, obviously MM's vote is the only one that matters. Unless you've drugged me and plan to kill me regardless, in which case I need JJJ too.

[Marmot]

Yup, my vote's not moving. Russtifinko is definitely bad, and the final one.

I'm ready to end Day 14 when all votes are cast.

Linki: them's are my thoughts Russ.

[Ricochet]

Why is MM's vote the only one that matters?

[Tangrowth]

Pending JJJ and Russ's approval, I will be able to end Day 14 early any time within the next couple of hours.

[Russtifinko]

Yup, my vote's not moving. Russtifinko is definitely bad, and the final one.

I'm ready to end Day 14 when all votes are cast.

Linki: them's are my thoughts Russ.

Well, that's unsporting.

I think it shouldn't matter, assuming Wilgy is bad, since the baddies don't kill tonight. I'd rather you got a case from me on Rico and then made up your mind, but since we win if dead anyway, I'm cool with it as long as you swear to get him tomorrow.

Also, JJJ seems to think you are more suspicious than Rico. So we should probably remind him that it's literally impossible for you to be bad given the motel room result. My worst-case tinfoil says Wilgy wasn't bad, they both are, and this lynch decides it. That would explain JJJ giving Rico ACEO last night and the push to get me killed before I even get a chance to say anything today.

There's also this:

Russtifinko - Last visited: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:15 pm

Day 13 ended at Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:39 pm. Call me paranoid, but could Russ have even sent the nightkill in?

[Ricochet]

JJJ's at work and I doubt Russbadsky will agree to concede early.

[Ricochet]

There's also this:

Russtifinko - Last visited: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:15 pm

Day 13 ended at Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:39 pm. Call me paranoid, but could Russ have even sent the nightkill in?

Debunked as soon as MM posited it.

[Marmot]

Hey MM:

Since I have instructed all players with Night PMs to submit them early, the Night 13 post will come very shortly.

:P

Yeah Russ, that was debunked.

[Marmot]

I feel like we're right about you Russ. If for some reason we're wrong, I still feel pretty good about our chances tomorrow.

[Russtifinko]

Darn it. Didn't see that haha.

If you have even the slightest shred of doubt about me, MM, I'm begging you to let me case Rico so you can compare side by side and see who looks worse.

That all said, if you're dead set on lynching me and you don't want to hear a case, then my time in this game is done regardless. If that's the case, I'll place my vote and say I'm ok to end, but please swear to me you'll vote Rico tomorrow if the baddies don't win on my lynch.

[Russtifinko]

Fair enough, as long as there is a tomorrow. Just let me know your final answer - say the word and I'll get to work on the Rico case, or tell me I'm done and we can end.

[Ricochet]

Why is MM's vote the only one that matters?

[Marmot]

Nope I'm done and ready to go.

[Ricochet]

If you can tell MM is town (and which town) based on motel room results, then who is Blind in your conception, Russ? You're clearly not claiming him one bit and it's statistically too on the nose for you to have been that lucky on Days 2, 4 and 6 not to have changed the outcome of any of those lynches. You just said JJJ and myself could be last TWO baddies, so you're clearly misfiring your own deductions by leaving out a key town active player.

It's all hard logic to follow.

[Marmot]

Nope I'm done and ready to go.

EBWOP: *finished

[Ricochet]

So I'm drugged?

[Russtifinko]

I'm good to end the Day, then. Ricochet.

If you can tell MM is town (and which town) based on motel room results, then who is Blind in your conception, Russ? You're clearly not claiming him one bit and it's statistically too on the nose for you to have been that lucky on Days 2, 4 and 6 not to have changed the outcome of any of those lynches. You just said JJJ and myself could be last TWO baddies, so you're clearly misfiring your own deductions by leaving out a key town active player.

It's all hard logic to follow.

Not sure what you're getting at. I'm not claiming Blind - I don't role claim. Nor do I know that he's alive, unlike you seem too.

You are miles ahead of me on the role deduction game, which I have always been terrible at (see X-Men or Zelda for proof). All I know is you are suckering MM. I just hope JJJ isn't involved.