[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Marmot]

I figured out who you were in Zelda, for what it's worth.

[Marmot]

Does mafia inherit the PSK's nightkill?

[Ricochet]

Problem is, JJJ is still at work and I am still short of the 1K.

linki: MP answered that. No.

[Tangrowth]

Does mafia inherit the PSK's nightkill?

No.

[Tangrowth]

You guys think JJJ would be alright with ending Day 14 early?

[Ricochet]

Why is MM's vote the only one that matters?

Ohh, I think I get why now. If by accident I'm killed (although, honestly Russ, my death would absolutely bury you afterwards, on the following Day), Russ got to keep suss in his posts on JJJ, so that he can try to work out some final magic tomorrow and charm MM.

[Marmot]

Problem is, JJJ is still at work and I am still short of the 1K.

linki: MP answered that. No.

Feels like a murder but that's alright

[Ricochet]

You guys think JJJ would be alright with ending Day 14 early?

You should probably wait for a confirmation from him or text him at work, his boss, his girlfri- oh wait.

[Russtifinko]

You guys think JJJ would be alright with ending Day 14 early?

MP: I don't endorse an early end to the day. Not yet at least.

Not really, no.

[Marmot]

MP: I don't endorse an early end to the day. Not yet at least.

This was 24 hours ago, but I don't want to make assumptions for Jay.

[Tangrowth]

Once we receive his approval, I'll end Day 14.

[Marmot]

Ninja'd.

[Ricochet]

Problem is, JJJ is still at work and I am still short of the 1K.

linki: MP answered that. No.

Feels like a murder but that's alright

Post-game posts will surely get me there, but I think I finally get why TH felt it's not the same, if it didn't happen during the actual game.

[Ricochet]

Once we receive his approval, misa end da game.

[Marmot]

Just post Talking Heads lyrics Ricochet.

I need something to change your mind.

[Russtifinko]

Why is MM's vote the only one that matters?

Ohh, I think I get why now. If by accident I'm killed (although, honestly Russ, my death would absolutely bury you afterwards, on the following Day), Russ got to keep suss in his posts on JJJ, so that he can try to work out some final magic tomorrow and charm MM.

Again, not sure what you mean here. Maybe on this role deduction I'm actually ahead of you?

I can see why a baddie would be dead set on finding Blind but care less about the other roles, though.

Also, MP, when did Jar-Jar Binks show up! Begone, scoundrel!

[Golden]

Russti... forget mafia for a minute. Shouldn't you be writing something in the speakeasy?

[Ricochet]

Why is MM's vote the only one that matters?

Ohh, I think I get why now. If by accident I'm killed (although, honestly Russ, my death would absolutely bury you afterwards, on the following Day), Russ got to keep suss in his posts on JJJ, so that he can try to work out some final magic tomorrow and charm MM.

Again, not sure what you mean here. Maybe on this role deduction I'm actually ahead of you?

I can see why a baddie would be dead set on finding Blind but care less about the other roles, though.

Didn't understand a thing here.

You make it up as we go along.

[Russtifinko]

Russti... forget mafia for a minute. Shouldn't you be writing something in the speakeasy?

Huh?

[Marmot]

Again, not sure what you mean here. Maybe on this role deduction I'm actually ahead of you?

I've got it figured out. I've got it figured out.

[Ricochet]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

[Marmot]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

[Russtifinko]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

Too little too late, my friend. Rico has had the lyric thing locked down since like Day 2.

[Ricochet]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

Too little too late, my friend. Rico has had the lyric thing locked down since like Day 2.

You never know. MM did after all beat my two whole Days of crafting videos in Syndicate by posting a video of a llama kicking a man...

[Ricochet]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

Too little too late, my friend. Rico has had the lyric thing locked down since like Day 2.

You never know. MM did after all beat my two whole Days of crafting videos in Syndicate by posting a video of a llama kicking a man...

Oh wait, that was "MM".

[Marmot]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

Too little too late, my friend. Rico has had the lyric thing locked down since like Day 2.

No way! I've been doing it the whole time, just without the smileys.

[Tangrowth]

Maybe I should end Day 14 anyway.

[Marmot]

Russ, you and Jay have already taken the CEO position away from me with your votes. I won't let Ricochet take this from me.

[Ricochet]

Com'on, JJJ, pick up your phone!

Russ, you and Jay have already taken the CEO position away from me with your votes. I won't let Ricochet take this from me.

Don't get upset, it's not a major disaster.

[Russtifinko]

At least starting tomorrow, I'll finally be able to focus on real life issues, like studying, writing a PhD, reading Rimbaud, finding a new girlfriend, improve my omelettes... Oh and check out this Talking Heads this whole game has been about. Are they any good?

I ain't got no speakers, ain't got no headphones, ain't got no records to play.

Too little too late, my friend. Rico has had the lyric thing locked down since like Day 2.

You never know. MM did after all beat my two whole Days of crafting videos in Syndicate by posting a video of a llama kicking a man...

Whaaaaaat?? Must see!

Russ, you and Jay have already taken the CEO position away from me with your votes. I won't let Ricochet take this from me.

Haha my bad, man. I didn't catch yours as much. I didn't have anything to do with choosing ACEOs at any point, though.

[Marmot]

Oops, that was BWT, not you Russ.

[Tangrowth]

Who wants to rank Talking Heads albums from best to worst?

[Marmot]

I only know 3 of them. :P

1. Fear of Music
2. Remain in Light
3. More Songs about Buildings and Food

[Ricochet]

Who wants to rank Talking Heads albums from best to worst?

Remain in Light
'77
More Songs About Buildings and Food
Speaking in Tongues
Fear of Music
Naked
literal flip coin between Little Creatures and True Stories, considering how much they both suck

[Tangrowth]

My list would be:
1. Remain in Light
2. Fear of Music
3. Speaking in Tongues
4. More Songs About Buildings and Food
5. 77
6. Naked
7. True Stories
8. Little Creatures

[Ricochet]

My list would be:
1. Remain in Light
2. Fear of Misa
3. Speaking in Tongues
4. More Songs About Buildings and Food
5. 77
6. Naked
7. True Stories
8. Little Creatures

[Strawhenge]

[Marmot]

My list would be:
1. Remain in Light
2. Fear of Misa
3. Speaking in Tongues
4. More Songs About Buildings and Food
5. 77
6. Naked
7. True Stories
8. Little Creatures

Who said my name?

[Golden]

My favourite TH albums.

1. Won't you hurry up
2. JaggedJimmyJay
3. Will this day ever end?
4. Dead people are everywhere
5. No-one can wait to see
6. What happens next

That's all the ones I've heard.

[Tangrowth]

My favourite TH albums.

1. Won't you hurry up
2. JaggedJimmyJay
3. Will this day ever end?
4. Dead people are everywhere
5. No-one can wait to see
6. What happens next

That's all the ones I've heard.

Those are good ones.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 14 continues.

[Russtifinko]

Day 14 continues.

Alright, game on!

So what's the plan? You interested in hearing a Rico case? At this point my time is limited, since, I have to sleep and then tomorrow I work until at least 5 as usual, but I'm game to do what I can with what I have if you intend to keep an open mind and hear it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 14 continues.

Alright, game on!

So what's the plan? You interested in hearing a Rico case? At this point my time is limited, since, I have to sleep and then tomorrow I work until at least 5 as usual, but I'm game to do what I can with what I have if you intend to keep an open mind and hear it.

Make your case. I'm gonna be at work for a while yet though.

[Russtifinko]

Gonna keep it very brief, since I should really be asleep already. I'll try to be on around 5:15pm eastern tomorrow to answer any last-minute questions.

Assembling now.

[Marmot]

Hostmuffincakes: if Drugs targets the same player with his ability on two different night phases, would he give that player 4 extra votes each lynch?

[Tangrowth]

Hostmuffincakes: if Drugs targets the same player with his ability on two different night phases, would he give that player 4 extra votes each lynch?

No, drugs are not cumulative.

[Marmot]

That is wonderful news.

[Russtifinko]

The Case Against Rico

Voting Record:

He did vote Wilgy on Day 0, although that's an extremely minor point.

Day 2, he voted Wilgy alone. To me, that vote looks super bad for two reasons, and I'm surprised I didn't see it before. I wasn't looking all that closely at Rico, and it's looking to me now like I should have been. (1) It was obviously a nothing vote, in a very tight lynch where we ended up getting a baddie. That looks bad in and of itself, but (2) it was on Wilgy, which looks like one of the best chances for a meaningless distancing vote I've seen. If Wilgy got lynched later, he could say "Oh, look, I suspected him on D2, so it doesn't matter that I didn't vote for LC that day." It also doesn't match his apparent Day 0 trust of Wilgy. To be fair, it did come from this post:

Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.

I try to make myself clear. I didn't outright claim from the beginning how different I'll play, what I did was explaining myself after the differences were picked up on by others, both in the Day 0 thread and here. I don't know what was I supposed to declar before the beginning of the game, although even in sign ups I gave a first taste of this.

I can't comment on BWT's choice, so far he's not even too focused on this, pulling nothing more than a few quotes, from the same highly popular songs. Epigone, at best.

in which he doesn't like that Wilgy voted BWT on D1. However, he never pursues this further, never develops the suspicion, and it comes off slightly NO U-y, so it's reasonable to assume he never planned on trying to get Wilgy lynched for it. His D2 vote looks weak as a result, hence my theory that it was distancing.

Day 3 he self-preserved which, anyone would, so fair enough, but it was onto a train on Golden that included Mac and Wilgy.
Day 4, Devin - with Wilgy.
Day 6, early vote onto Macdougall - but so did Wilgy.

His Day 7 nothing vote onto Choutas could be construed as avoiding a civ-civ pair of lynches entirely, so laying low. (Wilgy made a nothing vote too that Day).

Day 8, he voted MM in a very tight lynch - with Floyd and Wilgy. This one is interesting, because barring any influence by Drugs (and it seems most likely Drugs had only managed to drag Devin at this point), those 4 votes look tied with Floyd for the lead but they really aren't, a point which makes his vote look somewhat less bad.

He voted with Wilgy again on Day 9, for sig, and then made a nothing vote for Wilgy on Day 11, when we got Bullzeye, which again looks very much like distancing. Day 12 he also voted with Wilgy, who was once again one of his top suspects, for MM, who we now know to be super important.

He did vote Diiny, and early, yesterday, but he's sure crowed about how civ it makes him a lot, hasn't he? Both baddies and civs wanted someone with 2 NK's dead - it'd be too much of a wild card (and have too high a chance of winning on its own) to be allowed to survive.

I realize it looks like I harped on the Wilgy thing a lot here. I realize that a connection to Wilgy in and of itself is not the strongest part of my case. However, I fixated on it a bit because it's just mind-boggling to me that his case on me is "You voted with Wilgy to get 3 baddies" when, if you count the one-off nothing vote as "with Wilgy", 6 times! (5 if you don't count it). He got one baddie, but again, he's awful proud of it. Two of the other times he voted for Wilgy, and not once did he voice any nervousness about voting repeatedly with a guy who ostensibly remained a suspect all game long but was never pursued. To reiterate, his case is "Russ voted with Wilgy to kill baddies 3 times and has no other similarities with Wilgy", while his own votes show a relation to Wilgy a remarkable 75% of the time Wilgy was alive.

This behavior sets an important pattern of interaction that carries through to his treatment of Mac, too, which is in my next post.

[Russtifinko]

Day 4, Rico had Mac and Wilgy as his top two town reads.

4:21am on Tesday, Oct 13, soft defense of Mac from Golden (and a criticism of a towered of JJJ thrown in for good measure):

Linki - I have no idea if JJJ is civvie or scum, but if he is able to post the billions of posts he's posted this game, while also having the time to plan with a team, then kudos to him.

That's pretty weak townreading. Why wouldn't JJJ, of all people in fact, be able to cultivate his persona to seem like everything is in check and he's posting the way he always does?

What do you think about my take on him, in my LC spreadsheet? Worth thinking about or not?

voting macdougall.

sup. Why?

1:19pm on Tuesday, Oct 13th, suspects Macdougall, or at least the point I brought up about Mac saying lynching townies is ok:

For all the green skittles I've handed him, I must say MacDougall's tactical lynch suggestion is worth a grimace even from me. Maybe it's a culture difference thing, but no, I'd never try to improvise a potential mislynch only to garner info from it rather than focusing on voting my top mafia lead. Besides, he speaks of comfort in doing this move at this stage, but I'm not so sure. Unless Memories Can't Wait was already offed by the mafia or the SK, a mafia lead would give us the best outcome: 0 civilian losses throughout an entire cycle (with the N being skipped). The opposite of this result is that, unless the mafia clips the SK or the SK is good/lucky at taking out mafia players, a mislynch would be followed by 2 more civilian victims, throughout a phase. Right now, I'm not saying the civ cause is either doing well or in a bad situation (so-so, I'd say), but again, unless Memories was toast during the Night, 0 civilian losses and 1 mafia burn is the maximum good result town can achieve, so it should naturally be the mentality to follow the most.

Less than an hour later, 2:01pm Tuesday, Oct 13th, soft defends Mac from Golden again:

On a scale of 1 to 10 of thinking MacD is scum, Golden...

3 =

Yet thou has thy vote on him?

Day 5, he spent a lot of time defending Mac from Matt F's theory, which I think we can now all agree was baloney but was actually getting some amount of heat onto Mac.

Day 6, however, he was suddenly second to hop on the lynch train.


So, to reiterate, according to Rico Wilgy was good Day 0, bad Days 1-2, his second highest skittle civ read Day 4 and at least good enough to vote with 6 of the next 7 days, and then bad from that point on, when other people, led by JJJ, were starting to eye Wilgy pretty hard. Mac was not commented on until he was Rico's top skittle civ read on Day 4 (again, see the link), but over the next 24 hours Rico both said he was kinda suspicious and defended him (softly) from Golden. He kept defending him (again, softly), through Day 5 from Matt, but then voted to lynch him early on Day 6. Both of these interactions to me read absolute textbook baddie: lightly distance when possible, without creating any real pressure, defend without drawing attention to yourself when a buddy takes any heat, and when things start to look like they're headed the wrong way, bus, and do it fast and hard.

[Russtifinko]

Maybe "do it fast and hard" is a bit dramatic there, since Rico only actually truly bussed once. I got a little caught up in the case, and I rescind it. To clarify, I think he lightly bussed Wilgy and truly bussed Mac when it was clear Mac was going to go down within the next 1-2 days for the credit.

Keep in mind, Rico also only voted a baddie who had an actual chance to be lynched on one even Day. If he's Drugs, that makes good good sense.

Sorry -- in general those are not my best posts ever and they're probably too wordy, but I meant to do a 10-minute case and itstead spent over an hour reading all of Rico's stuff through Day 6 and analyzing his votes. It's now past 1am and I have to be up for work in the morning, so I'll try to summarize. I think there's plenty to go on here, but if I had more time I'd do a more extensive analysis of his recent stuff, like how I think he's using credit from the Diiny lynch to present himself as civ and win your trust so he could have a shot at winning in exactly this lylo situation. Further evidence he's trying to ride the cred wave: his case on me is about as lazy and weak as you can get for a guy who's written 25 pages of stuff in a game.

I'm gonna close here because I desperately need to sleep, but I'll say this to JJJ and MM as a final point: You both know Rico and I to some extent as mafia players. To me this comes down to one of 2 theories: (1) I played the worst baddie game in history, bussing teammates left and right when it stopped me from using my role power and made no sense to do so. Rico also played a pretty terrible game as a civ. Or (2): Rico played a prototypical baddie game where he bussed teammates only when he thought it was absolutely necessary, and did an damned impressive job keeping us guessing up until this point. I played a pretty solid civ game with a few notable holes (e.g. tunneling motel and missing Floyd). You guys can decide which is more likely.