STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[a2thezebra]

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

How is exploring intention behind in thread play insignificant nonsense Zebra?

But the disagreement has no effect on the intention. The disagreement is about what a post was referring to, and either way you interpret it the intention is the same: undefined.

[Golden]

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!

[a2thezebra]

If you two were arguing about what MP's actual motivations would be for making any given statement then it would be fine.

linki - Because it's annoying, pointless, and distracting.

[a2thezebra]

This is basically how I feel right now:

[MacDougall]

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!

Okay I don't it's fair to say that it's ridiculous. Firstly, my accusing you of taking it out of context was an accusation of you being at best lazy with your choice of where to start looking into this swathe of content that has been presented since you were last here, yes at worst I am accusing you of having ulterior motives. I'm sorry but I don't see how anything I have said is illogical.

MP quoted and agreed with the point I made that enrique failed to address my suspicions of him on day 0.

You said that was disingenous because enrique addressed subsequent suspicions on day 1.

I think you are the one who is being illogical. I know you are headstrong bordering on bullish Golden but if you fail to see my point then it is another poor reflection on you.

[Golden]

If you two were arguing about what MP's actual motivations would be for making any given statement then it would be fine.

linki - Because it's annoying, pointless, and distracting.

Hey, thats how I felt about your endless case on me in Dune

@Mac - I don't think MP is a caught baddie. I think he is a sick guy who isn't keeping up with the thread well. I get your point now, though, but I think you should reread MP's post... he doesn't put it in the context of your post which he quoted, he says 'Enrique HAS failed to address your suspicion whatsoever'. Not just that he did fail to when you asked.

[MacDougall]

If you two were arguing about what MP's actual motivations would be for making any given statement then it would be fine.

linki - Because it's annoying, pointless, and distracting.

This sort of stuff is why you get lynched on day 1 and day 2 all the time Zebra. You are interrupting valid discourse simply to sling shit at both of us for what end? Because it's white noise to you? It's not white noise. It's valid discourse. If it's white noise to you, try a little harder to get to the heart of the matter rather than dismissing both of us as annoying, pointless and distracting. We appear to be attempting to get the heart of MP's motivations, you appear to be serving only the goal of suppressing discourse. For what gain?

[a2thezebra]

And for the record, I'm not saying shut down your dispute with Mac, Golden. I'm just saying switch it up to something of substance.

linki - This is valid discourse to you?

[Golden]

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!

Okay I don't it's fair to say that it's ridiculous. Firstly, my accusing you of taking it out of context was an accusation of you being at best lazy with your choice of where to start looking into this swathe of content that has been presented since you were last here, yes at worst I am accusing you of having ulterior motives. I'm sorry but I don't see how anything I have said is illogical.

MP quoted and agreed with the point I made that enrique failed to address my suspicions of him on day 0.

You said that was disingenous because enrique addressed subsequent suspicions on day 1.

I think you are the one who is being illogical. I know you are headstrong bordering on bullish Golden but if you fail to see my point then it is another poor reflection on you.

Whoah, whoah. What do you mean 'lazy with my choice of where to start'. If I see ANYONE who I think has missed stuff, I will point it out to them. I was giving MP context for HIS suspicion, because someone having a suspicion for reasons that I see are incorrect is not something I will let stand without me mentioning it. Thats the opposite of lazy... I could have just let him think he had read the thread properly. I can't see any reason at all for ulterior motives to what I did. Where are you even coming from on that? I was HELPING mp, and you are making out like I'm misrepresenting him... I wasn't even saying anything about MP. I never made out it was disingenuous. You are reading a hell of a lot in to that.

[Golden]

@zebra - I will talk to whomever I want about whatever I want, and will not look fondly on anyone who tries to shut it down. Conversation is how you figure people out.

[a2thezebra]

Speaking as someone that has been in many pointless civ vs. civ brawls (not saying that's what this is but it kind of looks like it since neither of you are discussing ACTUAL LEGITIMATE PINGS, usually the people that are actually at the heart of the matter are the ones not partaking in the back-and-forth. I'm not flinging shit at you I'm just saying that it's disappointing for these long silences to only be interrupted by discussion that doesn't seem beneficial to town. Call me kooky call me crazy.

linki - Surprise! I will too.

[Enrique]

Oh jeez. OK, here's my issue with this whole thing: everyone's talking as if I didn't provide any reason for my vote when I did, from the beginning! I'm on mobile right now so finding it is a bit of a hassle, I'm gonna get on my laptop ASAP and quote the post because really it isn't hard to find. From my first mention of Yavin, before I voted for it, I mentioned what a blatant civvie option it looked like. Mac went on to press me as to why I hadn't voted for it yet, and I said hey I don't know why nobody else has. There's not much to that beyond me making up my mind.

I'm reading the whole thread but honestly I'm not very good at absorbing things from mobile, so I have very little to comment on right now. I will be back with my thoughts on some more things not directly related to me. This whole argument is just silly. I shouldn't have to defend myself here.

[Golden]

Ive been in many civ vs civ fights too. Also many civ vs baddie fights. You don't get to decide whether or not the conversation is 'beneficial to the town'.

Right now, Mac and I both appear to find each others conduct in this affair to be disingenuous. I felt he was target painting on me. It seems he thought I was trying to make MP look bad. These are genuine pings. Why do you not think we should be talking about that?

[sig]

This is basically how I feel right now:

I could policy lynch Zebra for the above right know :P

[sig]

I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

[a2thezebra]

Ive been in many civ vs civ fights too. Also many civ vs baddie fights. You don't get to decide whether or not the conversation is 'beneficial to the town'.

Right now, Mac and I both appear to find each others conduct in this affair to be disingenuous. I felt he was target painting on me. It seems he thought I was trying to make MP look bad. These are genuine pings. Why do you not think we should be talking about that?

Correct, I don't get to decide. The players of the game as a whole do. I do get to express my thoughts, and I think you two are tunneling each other big time. There are many times when I regret heated back-and-forths because the more the person I'm arguing with disagrees with me and doesn't seem to properly understand what I'm saying or where I'm coming from, the easier it is (in the heat of the moment) to convince myself that they are doing so deliberately because they are trying to misrepresent my actions, therefore they are scum. I have done this TONS of times and what's going on here is giving me flashbacks.

And ONCE AGAIN, I'm not saying don't talk about it. I didn't say stop talking, I said who gives a shit (you know, voicing my opinion...the thing you claim that I'm trying to get you not to do). By all means, proceed. All I'm saying is that the least you could do is take a step back and think about how rational you are being.

[Enrique]

I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

Yeah that seemed really obvious once somebody pointed it out. To be fair, when I think of Tattooine I always associate it with those raider shits stealing the droids, Anakin coming back to kill them, etc. I haven't watched a Star Wars film since I was 10, and though yes I know the Hutts are based there, it just kinda went over my head when I made that post.

[a2thezebra]

I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

Yeah that seemed really obvious once somebody pointed it out. To be fair, when I think of Tattooine I always associate it with those raider shits stealing the droids, Anakin coming back to kill them, etc. I haven't watched a Star Wars film since I was 10, and though yes I know the Hutts are based there, it just kinda went over my head when I made that post.

Hmmm...I don't buy it.

[Enrique]

I think there's a bit much attention on me trying to make up my mind for Day 0. I looked at Tattoine, I looked at Endor. For Endor I looked both ways, and even the Tattooine question wasn't a lot more than "wouldn't this benefit independents? What's the deal with them?"

Maybe I didn't lay out my whole thought process, but I commented on what I found worth commenting. Tattooine got a bunch of votes, and I doubt all of them stopped to consider "wait, isn't that where Jabba is based?"

[Marmot]

So if MM can get away with anything how are we supposed to catch him if he is scum? Again I ask, if his actions are meta-proof, what is his normal scum behavior?

If you played Dune, you'd probably have an idea.

[Marmot]

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Initially I assumed it was a joke vote and that he hadn't noticed that there were no vote changes, but...

Votes are not changeable in this poll.

So actually what the hell did you vote for me for Metalmarsh?

I already explained it to zebra.

Zebra saw me vote. Zebra commented on it, but nobody else did. Zebra brought it up again, and now it is suddenly a topic of conversation.

Placing a vote so early in the day phase should be a topic of conversation. It's the most exciting thing to happen so far. Why did nobody else consider it so until zebra had to bring it up again?

[a2thezebra]

Thank you for bringing up MM's bizarre early vote and how it's fucking weird that no one is talking about it...MM.

[sig]

I assumed MM sold himself cheaply, or MM is just being MM it really didn't ping me at all.

[a2thezebra]

Also for the purposes of observance.

In hindsight...point taken. Also I'm sorry for ridiculing your "gauge reactions" idea, which I didn't realize at the time was very hypocritical of me to say.

[Elohcin]

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Just what I was thinking.

You guys are posting so much lol. I'm reading now but am tried so I might take a nap before I post.

Or wait until your teammates get back into BTSC so you can agree on what you should say? :P

am current on the thread, yes, but I'm still trying to get a hold on everything, since I've been catching up in spurts in between sleeping/feeling sick and doing PhD work.

Are you going to make us call you Dr. MP?

Elo, you said you believe the people talking the most are civilian. Why? Also, you brought up mafia lying about real life; is there something specific in this thread that you are referring to, or was this just a commentary on what you've seen in general? I got a bit lost there.

I think so b/c they haven't done anything to ping me thus far. Except for Mac bringing up Matt's out of character behavior. The real life comment was only referring to previous games. I was only expanding upon the conversation on off-topic posts and whether they should be considered when suspecting someone.

well, lots of linki as I was all ready to post this and then Epi came in here to distract me for a little while. I'll read more after dinner.

[Golden]

lots of linki as I was all ready to post this and then Epi came in here to distract me for a little while.

Too much information, Elo!

[Epignosis]

lots of linki as I was all ready to post this and then Epi came in here to distract me for a little while.

Too much information, Elo!

I showed her my lightsaber and then used the Force.

[a2thezebra]

Oh snap

[Marmot]

Here is where zebra brought it up the first time, directly after I placed my vote.

Here is where zebra brought it back up for discussion, about 12 hours or so later.

Golden and MP chimed in immediately with regards to my vote in response to zebra's comment. MacDougall did too, but he was the victim, and this wasn't his first mention either.

Golden - Well Golden had one post in between when the vote happened and when zebra recently brought it up. Also his response read sincere to me.

MP - On the other hand, MP had 7 posts after it happened and before zebra brought it up. Not only that, but this was MP's response. He didn't comment on it before (not until zebra brought it up saying she was bothered by it). MP agreed he was also bothered by it, though admitted to not knowing how to handle it. But he also awkwardly used the word "also" twice at the very beginning of this post. It looks like sentence restructuring, meaning MP was trying to pick his words.

[Elohcin]

lots of linki as I was all ready to post this and then Epi came in here to distract me for a little while.

Too much information, Elo!

Hey, boys on here say vulger things all the time and when I just give an innuendo, I get chastised? I can't say those kinds of things on facebook b/c there are too many people to offend. And I have to sing Epi's praises somewhere .

[a2thezebra]

I certainly did not expect to say this recently, but consider MM my first moderate town read.

[a2thezebra]

Preach it Eloh!

[Marmot]

Where's Simon?

[Golden]

Oh, this is what I thought you said, Elo...

[Elohcin]

Where's Simon?

Simon lost tablet privileges today for killing his sister in Minecraft after several warnings not to. I was just about to call him and let him use my computer. Is that cheating as a mom?

[Bass_the_Clever]

MM is one of the hardest people to read it usually takes a few phase for me to even to form an opinion on him.
MP is really good at being bad but I don't think he is bad this game only because I don't think he would walk away from his computer when he is being talked about if he was bad.

[Simon]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

[Golden]

Talking of quiet, I'm not sure that mishimeals (who is a new player) has checked in at all.

[a2thezebra]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

[a2thezebra]

You know what...give me five minutes.

[Simon]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

[a2thezebra]

This is everyone's post history in order of how soon they posted from the game's beginning. This is just Page 1, so I assume more on the way.

sig
Golden
MovingPictures07
Bass_the_Clever
MacDougall
Sorsha
DrWilgy
The Sexiest Player in the History of Mafia
Matt F
Enrique
Bubbles
Dom
TheFloyd73
Luke11646
bcornett24
Glorfindel
DFaraday
Dragon D. Luffy
Roxy
Elohcin
Simon
Black Rock
Canucklehead
nijuukyugou
Metalmarsh89

Hosts, feel free to copy this on to the front page.

[a2thezebra]

Yikes that was 12 minutes. Well, whatever. Anyway here's more:

NANANANANANA_BANANA
Savage
Russtifinko

This is everyone from the second page (less than I remembered). I'm assuming no one else showed up on Pages 3 or 4, so that leaves, just as I thought, only Mishimeals who hasn't posted yet.

[a2thezebra]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm interested in why you picked Russ first to ask.

[a2thezebra]

Pasta time but I'll go through those ISO's when I return. Yes, all of them. Yes, I know it's Day 1 and for most of these players there is little content to properly analyze. Yes, I don't care.

[Russtifinko]

OMG, you guys are already posting at TH levels. Kill me now....

Why only that planet? You agree with DDL's logic and he himself said that they are viable to imitate the actions of everyone else by avoiding voting last every day.

First of all, "so quick"? Second, how is partial agreement a ping for you?

Not necessarily only that planet. But IF only that planet then I think it would've been a super good indicator.

My experience of DDL is that he always seems suspicious early on. I thought he was bad day one in economics and he wasn't.

Thanks for pointing this out, I haven't played with him much.

Okay I'll admit I kind of made a mistake there. I said what was on my mind, then I realized saying it might have ruined it, so I tried to find a silver lining by talking about the metagame thing, which admitelly I still think might work.

Thanks. Not sure i 100% buy this, because the post where you fully explained the idea and the one where you said fully explaining it might not be the best idea were the same post. However, you had at least given the major point in the previous post, so I suppose the cat was out of the bag anyway at that point.

I agree that it might still work, but I think you've severely decreased our chances.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?

Yeah, I don't see your point. To me those two statements say almost exactly the same thing. I basically reworded it the at the end because "I can't decide" sounds waffly.

[Russtifinko]

Russ looks very civ to me

I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

His (Enrique's) response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.

Mac, c'mon, man. You can't say twice that I look really civ to you and then give two examples where you'll be sure of someone's alignment if I flip bad. You're setting me up for one of your "I don't think he's bad but we should kill him anyway" lynches.

[Russtifinko]

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

So if MM can get away with anything how are we supposed to catch him if he is scum? Again I ask, if his actions are meta-proof, what is his normal scum behavior?

He always does this, and no, his wonkiness knows no bounds. If he finds one he promptly breaks it. It's actually working out really well for him, although probably less so for his teammates in games where he's civ.

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm interested in why you picked Russ first to ask.

No.

[Marmot]

Where's Simon?

Simon lost tablet privileges today for killing his sister in Minecraft after several warnings not to. I was just about to call him and let him use my computer. Is that cheating as a mom?

I don't know, but my young niece and nephew went through this exact same process when I visited them last summer: killing each other in Minecraft. :P

[Black Rock]

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Fixed that for you.