STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Marmot]

No dead people?

Cool beans.

[DharmaHelper]

Heck yeah I got the poll right first try.

[Marmot]

Mishimeals is off the poll.

[DharmaHelper]

Mishimeals is off the poll.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAH SECOND TRY

[a2thezebra]

No dead people?

Cool beans.

Agreed, but what's up with this Matt F stuff?

[Marmot]

No dead people?

Cool beans.

Agreed, but what's up with this Matt F stuff?

Episode V - Revenge of the Sith Boba.

[Epignosis]

All PMs have been sent. If you were expecting one and didn't get it, let us know.

[Enrique]

No dead people?

Cool beans.

Agreed, but what's up with this Matt F stuff?

Whatever it was it was damn creepy.

My guess is it has something to do with the Imperial secret roles? IIRC Palpatine tempts Anakin with the ability to "cheat death" through the Dark Side of the Force, which fits right into Vader and Sidious' secret roles. Then there's the issue that they failed to kill tonight, maybe meaning they could only use one power or the other?

Speculation: The Empire can recruit deadies into their BTSC for... some purpose, but that would explain the "And you're going to help me!" in the post.

[MacDougall]

Epignosis is a huge dick
He has played a very cruel trick
Because I failed to vote
That's why I wrote
This stupid fucking limerick

[Tangrowth]

I'm only here for a second to say:

Yay no death!

And to reiterate that I'm in crunch time for my other big Monday deadline, so Day 2 has rough timing for me. I'm banning myself from this thread until I feel I've made substantial progress on this thang. I'll respond to everything since my last post at that time, since I've only checked the result.

[sig]

So either the Empire didn't kill tonight or instead of killing did something to Matt. I'm wondering if the Matt thing isn't an Empire power, but instead the Empire team or the player responsibly for submitting the kill is inactive.
Thoughts on this?

[DharmaHelper]

A very friendly reminder that you should expect a game hosted by myself in particular to be stringent on participation scores.

[Epignosis]

A very friendly reminder that you should expect a game hosted by myself in particular to be stringent on participation scores.

But you're not hosting by yourself.

[DharmaHelper]

A very friendly reminder that you should expect a game hosted by myself in particular to be stringent on participation scores.

But you're not hosting by yourself.

A game of which I am a host? Is that better?

[Epignosis]

A very friendly reminder that you should expect a game hosted by myself in particular to be stringent on participation scores.

But you're not hosting by yourself.

A game of which I am a host? Is that better?

"A game I am hosting" would have been ideal. No need for a reflexive pronoun, as it creates potential confusion, and "hosted by me" involves a clumsy passive-voice clause.

Ahem.

"I must remind you that you should expect a game I am hosting will be stringent on participation scores. Vote, therefore, ye bitches."

[Marmot]

I think the baddies tried to kill Matt a second time to make sure he was dead.

[DharmaHelper]

A very friendly reminder that you should expect a game hosted by myself in particular to be stringent on participation scores.

But you're not hosting by yourself.

A game of which I am a host? Is that better?

"A game I am hosting" would have been ideal. No need for a reflexive pronoun, as it creates potential confusion, and "hosted by me" involves a clumsy passive-voice clause.

Ahem.

"I must remind you that you should expect a game I am hosting will be stringent on participation scores. Vote, therefore, ye bitches."

Much like the Bard, I enjoy flowery language

[Glorfindel]

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others.

Are you able to provide an accurate list of the sequence of the votes on Matt F's bandwagon? I for one would be interested to see it. I don't recall there were so many votes on it when I voted. And AGAIN (because I obviously didn't explain it sufficiently well the first time...) I was at work on Friday and I'd lost track of the deadline. I think when I voted it was only about an hour and a half to go and I simply didn't have the time to detail the explanation for my vote on him - not that there was one - I just thought he came across as suspicious from the tone of his posts. I'm struggling enough with this game thank you very much! I'd appreciate it if you'd grant me the courtesy of cutting me just a little bit of slack as a consequence

[Enrique]

I think the baddies tried to kill Matt a second time to make sure he was dead.

That'd be hilarious tbh.

[Roxy]

Yay about Matt and no death at night. Though the talk about Matt in DH's post leaves e thinking that Matt may have some role in the game even though he is dead.

Will work on reading today as best I can.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Good job with Matt everyone .

[bcornett24]

I'll be cathing up with readingg tonight, only 1.5 pages, then going to iso somebody.

[bcornett24]

I forgot to typo check. -_-

[Dom]

I'll be cathing up with readingg tonight, only 1.5 pages, then going to iso somebody.

You don't even read the thread.

[DrWilgy]

So... I have been relieved of my life in pet sounds mafia and am now catching up. What exactly happened to Matt?

[Canucklehead]

So... I have been relieved of my life in pet sounds mafia and am now catching up. What exactly happened to Matt?

Wilgy, you seem supremely disinterested this game. Why?

[Roxy]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

That's...convenient. And Dom's vote was lazy. If anything's going to persuade me to vote for someone besides Matt it's these strange Matt votes.

Damn zebra things do happen outside of this forum. I have a family and work. Right now both are total chaos. I did say my thoughts prior to my vote sorry if you do not like the way I play. But if I want to play (and I do) I am going to play when I have time and will post and vote according to the suspicions I have.

Yep this is how far back I am I bet you will have something to say about this as well

[DrWilgy]

So... I have been relieved of my life in pet sounds mafia and am now catching up. What exactly happened to Matt?

Wilgy, you seem supremely disinterested this game. Why?

Not disinterested, just behind. I didn't expect it to start as soon as it did expect full force wilgy-ing as soon as I'm caught up. Also... Im not a doctor!

[Roxy]

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

Already painting people as bad before the lynch is even over. Sounds like someone wants the ball to roll at Matt voters vs the others. Why? You did not even know Matt''s alignment yet.

Well not bad for Day 1, though I don't like how quickly Matt's wagon developed and the amount of low posters who voted for him.

linki: No he isn't Golden read the EU

Too bad so sad.

Nicely done all you Matt voters.

However this doesn't really give us any information on who the baddies are as he was alone/no btsc.

I think it could give us info, if not now later.

I am now caught up.

If people want to find me suspicious bc my random landed on Matt F so be it. Can't really defend against that suspicion - but maybe thats your point.

[Golden]

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

[Roxy]

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

Yes it was her opening post followed by a really weird reading explanation post of her first post. The whole thing read quite odd and I am not sure why she felt it necessary to make a huge post about the planets since several people already had - one was sufficient to determine where one wanted to go we did not need 10 of them. hers was one of the last ones and I felt it was done only to look like she was contributing.

[sig]

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

I'm tone reading Roxy post's as slight civ, I also am unsure if a mafia Roxy would actually say her vote was decided at random. This puts the spotlight on her and I think a mafia Roxy would be less likely to do this and would instead come up with a different reason.

I would at this point rather not lynch a Matt voter based only around the argument that they are lurking.

I could lynch Enrique again today as my opinion of them hasn't changed and in fact him calling me two faced makes me more suspicious of him.
I would like other players opinions on Enrique.

[a2thezebra]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

That's...convenient. And Dom's vote was lazy. If anything's going to persuade me to vote for someone besides Matt it's these strange Matt votes.

Damn zebra things do happen outside of this forum. I have a family and work. Right now both are total chaos. I did say my thoughts prior to my vote sorry if you do not like the way I play. But if I want to play (and I do) I am going to play when I have time and will post and vote according to the suspicions I have.

Yep this is how far back I am I bet you will have something to say about this as well

I don't have anything to say about you being behind, but I do have something to say about you trying to make it look like my issue with your vote was that you hadn't caught up in the thread when that clearly had absolutely nothing to do with it. My issue was that I did not believe your Matt vote was randomized, and now my issue is that you claim to have said your thoughts prior to vote as if to imply that it was in fact NOT randomized. Please explain.

[a2thezebra]

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

I'd prefer that you take a while to catch up and not miss anything crucial to your arguments than try to catch up quickly and say uninformed things like this. I only said that I wanted to wait for Bass to respond because at that time I thought there was much more time left in the day than there actually was. And yes, the Matt votes bothered me. In fact, they still do. Your especially. Sue me. Tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden? That's not how Golden himself reacted to it, he seemed to understand where I was coming from. I said that it was Golden's fault that Bass wasn't a viable lynch candidate because he was the one taking issue with people not voting for the viable lynch candidates of that day. And again, your praising of how consistent and on-point my suspicion of Matt was does not help the idea you seemed to be pushing earlier that your Matt vote was randomized.

[a2thezebra]

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

Yes it was her opening post followed by a really weird reading explanation post of her first post. The whole thing read quite odd and I am not sure why she felt it necessary to make a huge post about the planets since several people already had - one was sufficient to determine where one wanted to go we did not need 10 of them. hers was one of the last ones and I felt it was done only to look like she was contributing.

So why didn't you say this then instead of just saying the hilariously vague and cryptic "Sorsha day 0"?

[Enrique]

Sig, this is gonna sound like bullshit, but I definitely misread one of your Day 1 posts as saying that I was looking less Mafia to you, not more. So when I saw you'd voted for me hell yeah I was surprised. I'm sorry if "two faced" came across as an insult, I'm not that petty (and really this is a game where we call each other "scum" all the time). But from an in-game perspective that's exactly what it would've been. I take it back now. You were consistent (ly misguided) when talking about me. I was looking at it wrong.

Zeeb is doing a fine interrogation job with Roxy, I must say. The fact that she's trying to justify her vote for Matt, which she originally said was random... doesn't bode very well. Zebra showcases Roxy's other attempts at misrepresenting her, such as the tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden. I think Roxy is looking very worthy of some eyes here.

A few scattered thoughts:

I've found myself agreeing with BC and Golden a lot so far. Like I was talking with Alex earlier, maybe it's a playstyle thing, maybe it comes from a shared perspective, I can't know for sure. But for now I'm inclined to trust them.

I don't want to let Russ off the hook, but you know what I suspect? That he's indie. I don't think a Hutt would immediately come into the thread and publicly link his name to the team right now. If you're a Hutt and one of your first posts is bullshit logic about why you want to go to Jabba's palace (or wherever the hell he lives), then that's just extremely silly and way risky. And despite that, I can't make myself believe him! I'm convinced there was an ulterior motive there, the original reasoning didn't quite cut it in the first place and his subsequent posts have read a lot like bullshit to me. Give me a bit and I'll deliver on some troublesome ideas he's had.

[Sorsha]

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

Yes it was her opening post followed by a really weird reading explanation post of her first post. The whole thing read quite odd and I am not sure why she felt it necessary to make a huge post about the planets since several people already had - one was sufficient to determine where one wanted to go we did not need 10 of them. hers was one of the last ones and I felt it was done only to look like she was contributing.

If I put effort into something I'm not going to not post it just because someone else posted something similar.

Plus, my list was better

[Enrique]

Okay, whether Russ is indie or bad I don't know. I don't think he's up to any good, regardless.

Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

This is the controversial first post that got people talking about him in the first place. We've already gone over how problematic the first point is, but the first time this post was brought to attention was in regards to the second point. I'm talking about MP's infamous softball.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?

Reading this whole thing over again FINALLY allowed me to understand what was happening Russ and Zebra both look at DDL thinking "well, that's one way to appear civvie, but revealing this in the thread only helps the baddies avoid falling into that pattern." See, my problem with this would be the fact that the knowledge would be more useful to the baddies in their BTSC than sharing it with the thread, but this is caked under so many layers of WIFOM I won't bother making and argument for or against it. It just is.

Then there's this:

zebra, I'm actually NOT pinged by DDL's logic here. He's right - if Tarkin chose one planet that gets blown up, the baddies know which one it is, so you can be damned sure they'll avoid voting last at that planet and only that planet. The rest of us will try not to vote last on EVERY planet. So if DDL hadn't said anything, we could've looked hindsight to see if anyone who normally votes late voted early on the day the planet blew up.

What pinged me was that he blew this angle by explaining it, and then went hyper-meta with it. And I'm also slightly pinged that you were so quick to join me here, but with a different point.

"That pings me, this pings me." This confuses me, because as far as I can tell, that's Zebra's main issue with DDL as well. Yet he's playing it as if sharing that opinion is a bad thing?

I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?

Yeah, right? As far as I can tell, all Zebra did was agree with him. I don't think she had a problem with DDL's logic as much as she just didn't understand it, and that's very fair, but it was not her issue.

Russ looks very civ to me

I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

His (Enrique's) response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.

Mac, c'mon, man. You can't say twice that I look really civ to you and then give two examples where you'll be sure of someone's alignment if I flip bad. You're setting me up for one of your "I don't think he's bad but we should kill him anyway" lynches.

Russ really doesn't like having friends in this game. Pings all over the place, especially for the people vouching for him. Not a word on MP and his softball, however. (Keeping in mind this whole discussion came from the post MP first pointed out, but not from the "civ-ish or baddie vs slightly pinged" aspect that MP focused on the entire time).

Then this happens? His first ever mention of MP.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

Huh? That's a nice WIFOM covered in sarcastic orange but I don't understand the point of this vote.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.

Not much to it, really. You're a troublesome sort, and it's a Day 1 vote. I had like 3 minutes and didn't know if I'd be back before the deadline.

For what it's worth, Enrique looks worse than Matt to me. But if I'm being honest, that's probably almost entirely because he voted me and Matt didn't, so my thoughts there might not be worth much.

Linki: Sorry Matt!

"No reason!"

Oh, okay, fair enough I suppose. Let me know if you have any concerns that I can address.

"Fair enough!"

Wait, what? What the hell is this interaction? Am I missing something?

No, seriously. What? Everything about the way they play it off confuses me. "How's that for baddie distancing?" It's so in-your-face I almost have trouble believing it happened. I would have bought a scenario where Russ was trying to get MP's name linked to him, but then MP is just like "hmm, okay!" and I just have no idea of anything anymore.

[Roxy]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

That's...convenient. And Dom's vote was lazy. If anything's going to persuade me to vote for someone besides Matt it's these strange Matt votes.

Damn zebra things do happen outside of this forum. I have a family and work. Right now both are total chaos. I did say my thoughts prior to my vote sorry if you do not like the way I play. But if I want to play (and I do) I am going to play when I have time and will post and vote according to the suspicions I have.

Yep this is how far back I am I bet you will have something to say about this as well

I don't have anything to say about you being behind, but I do have something to say about you trying to make it look like my issue with your vote was that you hadn't caught up in the thread when that clearly had absolutely nothing to do with it. My issue was that I did not believe your Matt vote was randomized, and now my issue is that you claim to have said your thoughts prior to vote as if to imply that it was in fact NOT randomized. Please explain.

Liar! Below you say (or insinuate) that I did not actually read the thread.
I do not know what to say about my random vote only what I said earlier - it is an easy way to toss suspicion my way bc there is no way for me to defend against it. It was random idc whether you or anyone else believes it. I cannot defend against this accusation and you know it, its why you are doing it

Besides your original suspicion is far from being clear. You just say how convenient. You did not elaborate what was convenient - my random vote or the fact I had not caught up.

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

I'd prefer that you take a while to catch up and not miss anything crucial to your arguments than try to catch up quickly and say uninformed things like this. I only said that I wanted to wait for Bass to respond because at that time I thought there was much more time left in the day than there actually was. And yes, the Matt votes bothered me. In fact, they still do. Your especially. Sue me. Tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden? That's not how Golden himself reacted to it, he seemed to understand where I was coming from. I said that it was Golden's fault that Bass wasn't a viable lynch candidate because he was the one taking issue with people not voting for the viable lynch candidates of that day. And again, your praising of how consistent and on-point my suspicion of Matt was does not help the idea you seemed to be pushing earlier that your Matt vote was randomized.

What are you insinuating here Zebra? That I did not really read or catch up? Rude tbqh! I seen what you posted when I read but I must say it felt fake. Gave Matt plenty of time to respond and post then made the excuse that you did not like others voting for Matt. Which is silly imo bc you made a strong case against him then completely threw away your vote on Bass knowing full well he would not be lynched. You wasted something that is precious to any civ - their vote. Its all we have to get rid of baddies. But instead of actually following through you just thought why be accountable for your vote?

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

Yes it was her opening post followed by a really weird reading explanation post of her first post. The whole thing read quite odd and I am not sure why she felt it necessary to make a huge post about the planets since several people already had - one was sufficient to determine where one wanted to go we did not need 10 of them. hers was one of the last ones and I felt it was done only to look like she was contributing.

So why didn't you say this then instead of just saying the hilariously vague and cryptic "Sorsha day 0"?

Bc at the time Sorsha had a handful of posts if you really wanted to know why not take a look yourself? Oh wait you did in your 3 hour iso craze lol. Jk, I posted what I had time for I had no time to add until now.

[Roxy]

I never much like votes that are off the viable lynch options. At this point, it seems to me that only votes for Matt or Enrique are meaningful. But I guess some people may have sold their votes.

I'll say right now I did not sell my vote, and you're part of the reason why Bass ended up not being a viable lynch option in the first place. I get that you're satisfied with a Matt lynch (and not an Enrique lynch) as well but at this point Matt just got too WIFOM-y to me. None of his actions in the past 24 hours make sense from a scum perspective as well as town, and that combined with so many lazy votes for him is why I didn't go for him.

linki @ Matt - "Consider it ignored." Whichever alignment you are, if you don't want to be lynched so quickly and easily again, don't ignore other players while constantly acting like they are ignoring you. It's nothing short of disrespectful.

linki @ flip - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Again I will ask why it was Goldens fault Bass was not lynched? Also see your blazing gun comment to golden highlighted hugely for you as well as your excuses for not making your vote count or worthwhile.

[Roxy]

Sig, this is gonna sound like bullshit, but I definitely misread one of your Day 1 posts as saying that I was looking less Mafia to you, not more. So when I saw you'd voted for me hell yeah I was surprised. I'm sorry if "two faced" came across as an insult, I'm not that petty (and really this is a game where we call each other "scum" all the time). But from an in-game perspective that's exactly what it would've been. I take it back now. You were consistent (ly misguided) when talking about me. I was looking at it wrong.

Zeeb is doing a fine interrogation job with Roxy, I must say. The fact that she's trying to justify her vote for Matt, which she originally said was random... doesn't bode very well. Zebra showcases Roxy's other attempts at misrepresenting her, such as the tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden. I think Roxy is looking very worthy of some eyes here.

A few scattered thoughts:

I've found myself agreeing with BC and Golden a lot so far. Like I was talking with Alex earlier, maybe it's a playstyle thing, maybe it comes from a shared perspective, I can't know for sure. But for now I'm inclined to trust them.

I don't want to let Russ off the hook, but you know what I suspect? That he's indie. I don't think a Hutt would immediately come into the thread and publicly link his name to the team right now. If you're a Hutt and one of your first posts is bullshit logic about why you want to go to Jabba's palace (or wherever the hell he lives), then that's just extremely silly and way risky. And despite that, I can't make myself believe him! I'm convinced there was an ulterior motive there, the original reasoning didn't quite cut it in the first place and his subsequent posts have read a lot like bullshit to me. Give me a bit and I'll deliver on some troublesome ideas he's had.

Enrique- Where and how am I supposed to defend against a random vote? I can't which has been my point. Its an easy suspicion to make bc I cannot defend against it.

[a2thezebra]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

That's...convenient. And Dom's vote was lazy. If anything's going to persuade me to vote for someone besides Matt it's these strange Matt votes.

Damn zebra things do happen outside of this forum. I have a family and work. Right now both are total chaos. I did say my thoughts prior to my vote sorry if you do not like the way I play. But if I want to play (and I do) I am going to play when I have time and will post and vote according to the suspicions I have.

Yep this is how far back I am I bet you will have something to say about this as well

I don't have anything to say about you being behind, but I do have something to say about you trying to make it look like my issue with your vote was that you hadn't caught up in the thread when that clearly had absolutely nothing to do with it. My issue was that I did not believe your Matt vote was randomized, and now my issue is that you claim to have said your thoughts prior to vote as if to imply that it was in fact NOT randomized. Please explain.

Liar! Below you say (or insinuate) that I did not actually read the thread.
I do not know what to say about my random vote only what I said earlier - it is an easy way to toss suspicion my way bc there is no way for me to defend against it. It was random idc whether you or anyone else believes it. I cannot defend against this accusation and you know it, its why you are doing it

Who's insinuating things? I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from with these responses. You know what would be a good way to defend against your vote? Not back it up and act like it was intentional all along. Your vote was convenient. If I had randomized my vote (not that I would ever do that in the first place, but I digress) and gotten Matt, I honestly would've randomized it again just to avoid this situation, regardless of my alignment. You left your vote up to fate and now, assuming it was in fact random, you're facing the consequences. You claim to not care if me or anyone else believes it, so why are you defending it so aggressively? If you sold it or something I don't see why you couldn't tell us that either.

Besides your original suspicion is far from being clear. You just say how convenient. You did not elaborate what was convenient - my random vote or the fact I had not caught up.

It could not be more obvious what I meant and you're the only one that interpreted it differently to insinuate that I was suspicious of you just for not being caught up. I wonder why.

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

I'd prefer that you take a while to catch up and not miss anything crucial to your arguments than try to catch up quickly and say uninformed things like this. I only said that I wanted to wait for Bass to respond because at that time I thought there was much more time left in the day than there actually was. And yes, the Matt votes bothered me. In fact, they still do. Your especially. Sue me. Tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden? That's not how Golden himself reacted to it, he seemed to understand where I was coming from. I said that it was Golden's fault that Bass wasn't a viable lynch candidate because he was the one taking issue with people not voting for the viable lynch candidates of that day. And again, your praising of how consistent and on-point my suspicion of Matt was does not help the idea you seemed to be pushing earlier that your Matt vote was randomized.

What are you insinuating here Zebra? That I did not really read or catch up? Rude tbqh! I seen what you posted when I read but I must say it felt fake. Gave Matt plenty of time to respond and post then made the excuse that you did not like others voting for Matt. Which is silly imo bc you made a strong case against him then completely threw away your vote on Bass knowing full well he would not be lynched. You wasted something that is precious to any civ - their vote. Its all we have to get rid of baddies. But instead of actually following through you just thought why be accountable for your vote?

This is both illogical and hypocritical. First off, please don't play the "rude" card. I wouldn't object to someone calling me out for not seeming like I fully caught up whether I did or I didn't. Second, I have already gone over multiple times why I did not vote for Matt and why I did vote for Bass. If you're not convinced by my reasoning then fine, but at least go to the effort to address the specific posts where I explained that reasoning and attempt to dissect what seems "fake" about them. That would easily prove my "insinuation" wrong, after all. Third, it's silly to accuse me of throwing away my vote when you randomized it, something that I have never done in the history of playing this game. If I'm not caught up and it's time to vote I at least try to make an educated guess. And just to be clear I'm not criticizing you for "randomizing" in itself, I'm criticizing you for claiming to randomize yet having the nerve to say I threw my vote away. That's absurd. And do you really think I'm dumb enough to make a decision like that to avoid accountability? I knew full well that I would get crap for not picking one of the two main options but I did it anyway because at the time I simply did not like the two main options, and I fully explained why to help whoever took issue with my decision get a better understanding of where I was coming from. Sorry for having integrity.

Hey @ Roxy

I don't remember you addressing this.

In one of your early posts you said 'Sorsha day 0' - do you remember what that was supposed to mean and if there was more to the thought that you didn't get out?

Yes it was her opening post followed by a really weird reading explanation post of her first post. The whole thing read quite odd and I am not sure why she felt it necessary to make a huge post about the planets since several people already had - one was sufficient to determine where one wanted to go we did not need 10 of them. hers was one of the last ones and I felt it was done only to look like she was contributing.

So why didn't you say this then instead of just saying the hilariously vague and cryptic "Sorsha day 0"?

Bc at the time Sorsha had a handful of posts if you really wanted to know why not take a look yourself? Oh wait you did in your 3 hour iso craze lol. Jk, I posted what I had time for I had no time to add until now.

What poor reasoning. What if I said something like "Epignosis Day 2" and I expect everyone else to just figure out what on earth I meant by that for themselves by going through everything Epignosis said Day 2? Sure it's nice to draw attention to something but it's a lot better to elaborate on it from the get go so others aren't left wondering what exactly I was trying to point out in the first place. In the same post where you gave us other thoughts besides "Sorsha Day 0" you at least gave a good enough summary of how you felt to know what you meant. You can't expect me to believe that you were too short on time to give "Sorsha Day 0" the same treatment of a single sentence rather than a phrase to help everyone out a bit. These responses you're giving me come off as nervous and fabricated at best.

[a2thezebra]

I never much like votes that are off the viable lynch options. At this point, it seems to me that only votes for Matt or Enrique are meaningful. But I guess some people may have sold their votes.

I'll say right now I did not sell my vote, and you're part of the reason why Bass ended up not being a viable lynch option in the first place. I get that you're satisfied with a Matt lynch (and not an Enrique lynch) as well but at this point Matt just got too WIFOM-y to me. None of his actions in the past 24 hours make sense from a scum perspective as well as town, and that combined with so many lazy votes for him is why I didn't go for him.

linki @ Matt - "Consider it ignored." Whichever alignment you are, if you don't want to be lynched so quickly and easily again, don't ignore other players while constantly acting like they are ignoring you. It's nothing short of disrespectful.

linki @ flip - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Again I will ask why it was Goldens fault Bass was not lynched? Also see your blazing gun comment to golden highlighted hugely for you as well as your excuses for not making your vote count or worthwhile.

They're not "excuses", they're reasons. An excuse is an attempt to justify a poor action, and I still do not believe that what I did was the wrong thing to do. I did the best I could at the time, and I gave my reasons for doing so. And again I will clarify that I did not say it was Golden's fault Bass wasn't lynched, I said that Golden was part of the reason Bass wasn't a viable lynch candidate. It may be invisible to you but it makes all the difference, and I still stand by what I actually said. Golden is one of the more prominent posters so far, so considering that Bass was his strongest scum read I felt if he had put more effort into giving Bass more attention, he could've gotten some of the people who ended up hopping on Matt's bandwagon to vote Bass instead. Again, as I already said in the very post you are quoting to make me look bad, I understand where Golden was coming from since he didn't mind a Matt lynch as much as I did at the time. And given the result, now I myself don't mind either. But at the time I think my actions were completely justified. I find it funny that you've emphasized my actual statements by enlarging the font yet still have the nerve to completely misrepresent them in your post.

[MacDougall]

Okay, whether Russ is indie or bad I don't know. I don't think he's up to any good, regardless.

Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

This is the controversial first post that got people talking about him in the first place. We've already gone over how problematic the first point is, but the first time this post was brought to attention was in regards to the second point. I'm talking about MP's infamous softball.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I want everyone to discuss this.

How are these two statements compatible?

Reading this whole thing over again FINALLY allowed me to understand what was happening Russ and Zebra both look at DDL thinking "well, that's one way to appear civvie, but revealing this in the thread only helps the baddies avoid falling into that pattern." See, my problem with this would be the fact that the knowledge would be more useful to the baddies in their BTSC than sharing it with the thread, but this is caked under so many layers of WIFOM I won't bother making and argument for or against it. It just is.

Then there's this:

zebra, I'm actually NOT pinged by DDL's logic here. He's right - if Tarkin chose one planet that gets blown up, the baddies know which one it is, so you can be damned sure they'll avoid voting last at that planet and only that planet. The rest of us will try not to vote last on EVERY planet. So if DDL hadn't said anything, we could've looked hindsight to see if anyone who normally votes late voted early on the day the planet blew up.

What pinged me was that he blew this angle by explaining it, and then went hyper-meta with it. And I'm also slightly pinged that you were so quick to join me here, but with a different point.

"That pings me, this pings me." This confuses me, because as far as I can tell, that's Zebra's main issue with DDL as well. Yet he's playing it as if sharing that opinion is a bad thing?

I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?

Yeah, right? As far as I can tell, all Zebra did was agree with him. I don't think she had a problem with DDL's logic as much as she just didn't understand it, and that's very fair, but it was not her issue.

Russ looks very civ to me

I think Russ, has by and large come across quite well, except for the point that bcornett swiftly pointed out, and that you did not point out despite apparently being onto him as scum.

It looks to me like you are scum and you are day 1 distancing a scum teammate. Your case on him has all the hallmarks of it. You have confirmation bias when it comes to his posts.

His (Enrique's) response to bcornett's Russtifinko suspicion looks genuine and should Russ be scum, he would not be in my opinion.

Mac, c'mon, man. You can't say twice that I look really civ to you and then give two examples where you'll be sure of someone's alignment if I flip bad. You're setting me up for one of your "I don't think he's bad but we should kill him anyway" lynches.

Russ really doesn't like having friends in this game. Pings all over the place, especially for the people vouching for him. Not a word on MP and his softball, however. (Keeping in mind this whole discussion came from the post MP first pointed out, but not from the "civ-ish or baddie vs slightly pinged" aspect that MP focused on the entire time).

Then this happens? His first ever mention of MP.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

Huh? That's a nice WIFOM covered in sarcastic orange but I don't understand the point of this vote.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.

Not much to it, really. You're a troublesome sort, and it's a Day 1 vote. I had like 3 minutes and didn't know if I'd be back before the deadline.

For what it's worth, Enrique looks worse than Matt to me. But if I'm being honest, that's probably almost entirely because he voted me and Matt didn't, so my thoughts there might not be worth much.

Linki: Sorry Matt!

"No reason!"

Oh, okay, fair enough I suppose. Let me know if you have any concerns that I can address.

"Fair enough!"

Wait, what? What the hell is this interaction? Am I missing something?

No, seriously. What? Everything about the way they play it off confuses me. "How's that for baddie distancing?" It's so in-your-face I almost have trouble believing it happened. I would have bought a scenario where Russ was trying to get MP's name linked to him, but then MP is just like "hmm, okay!" and I just have no idea of anything anymore.

I totally see what you're saying yo
Particularly how MP just let's it go
When you look closer you can see
How this tactic came out of BTSC
It just doesn't have any flow

[Golden]

Plus, my list was better

True, but my list was funnier

[Golden]

I'm feeling pretty ok about Roxy right now. Not at the top of my civ vibes list, but a slight civilian read.

@Mac - sorry to make you write another limerick, but given the MP/Enrique stuff on day one, why do you now see them in a team. Do you think it is all distancing? It seemed to me that MP wanted to lynch Enrique yesterday.

[Enrique]

Golden, the proposed BTSC pairing would be MP and Russ, not me. I think there's a lot pointing towards something going on there, but I'm also hesitant to say they're in a team because if they are then every move related to each other has been so sloppy. It shouldn't be this easy to draw connections, and they should know better than that. The way they interact with each other is so bizarre.

[MacDougall]

Golden, the proposed BTSC pairing would be MP and Russ, not me. I think there's a lot pointing towards something going on there, but I'm also hesitant to say they're in a team because if they are then every move related to each other has been so sloppy. It shouldn't be this easy to draw connections, and they should know better than that. The way they interact with each other is so bizarre.

Perhaps the answer that you seek
Lies in the role cards, take a peek
Not all btsc
Is made equally
Perhaps they are just meek

[Dom]

BAss-- what are you thinking?

[MacDougall]

It annoys me that this thread
Appears to now be dead
Me being limited
Should not have restricted
Finding out who we should pump full of lead