Tree Mafia [GAME OVER]

#701

Sorry for the lack of contribution this day. I have a sick child at home with a very high temperature.

I read back and will try to say something at least.

I still don't think Diiny is bad.

I think I'm starting to agree with Epi on many things. FIrst, Floyd, why is he voting so early every day? This is something I think baddies, especially new players tend to do more often to not have to deal with consequences later. Second, though I said the game was getting worse, it didn't feel real to me coming from Floyd.

Then there's Epi's case on JJJ. It looks quite compelling. Not to mention jjj seemed to misunderstand me a lot yesterday, which I thought was weird, but let it go (mostly because I thought it was me not being clear enough).

Finally, while I'm not sold on this, I think it needs to be brought up:
I think Wilgy can easily be scum. Who had the most to gain from his stunt? He did.
It makes him look like the civviest of civs. First, he's "baiting" others with his gambit. Then he did the analysis of who said what. That is priceless if you're a baddie. You get the credit for doing such a thorough job trying to find baddies. Everyone replied in some way, didn't they? Now, all he had to do was find things he could use.
Not to mention, this was a great way to draw out the real cop, like someone else mentioned.
Notice, he moved his vote from Diiny to Enrique even though he said he prefers to vote for Diiny. Enrique was the one who was the most suspicious of him.

#702

It was Enrique himself who mentioned that it was a nice way to draw out the real cop, may he rest in peace.

#703

in the second 24 hours of today we'll surely get a sober Wilgy and I think that'll be more enlightening than the current drunk, "depressing", self-vote Dr. I still think that cop gambit was towny.

Back in RYM land on pretty sure his first game with infodumping, MP tried a cop gambit which backfired on him but he made the move as town. A new game mechanic, town tries the tricks, imo.

so here, MP, while I think I agree with you, whats different about your gambit and his, because you were part of the reason I feel Wilgy was town but you are distancing from what he's done:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Enrique wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Enrique wrote:I thought he was hinting at actually being the doctor, which he pretty much just straight up denied ("nonsense lyrics") and leaves me exactly where I was before. DrWilgy is a liar and he's bad.
DrWilgy seems to always say "I am most certainly (not) a doctor!" every game; is that what you're referring to?

I've never heard of a n0 peek being red, so I don't know why anyone would entertain Wilgy to be telling the truth.

I'm confused as to why FZ. followed it. I'm also confused as to why FZ. thinks I would put in more effort so far as mafia, despite her second post saying I've been "caught" posting too much as mafia before. My posting frequency is not indicative of my alignment.
No. Basically, I realized that DrWilgy being the Doctor was the only way his actions could make any sense while being a civvie. False claiming draws out the cop AND allows him to protect him, right? It's not a great plan but I literally can't think of any other reason a civ would lie so blatantly. He made some cryptic post about watching people in the night and I was like "huh, I get it." Turns out there was nothing to get.

Diiny wrote:Enrique

Diiny wrote:I want to understand what you think wilgy's plan/particular brand of scumminess is, help me out. Because his plan seems bizarre from any angle, scum or town.
The "crazy bastard" brand. Diiny, gonna be honest here, your reactions to Zebra on the first day looked bad as fuck to me. You took every single piece of bait anyone left, you had a pretty unsatisfying reaction to Wilgy's "outing" of you, and overall looked like a baddie that got got. You could be Wilgy's teammate and this could be some crazy tactic to get himself certified civ credit for the rest of the game, I don't know, but the only thing I'm sure about right now is that he's bad. I'm being very serious, and this goes out to you as well as MP, Sorsha and whoever else... if we can get enough votes on Wilgy, I guarantee you we will get a baddie.

linki- how?? How do Wilgy's actions make sense from a civvie perspective at all?
They don't make much sense to me personally; I would never pull such an obviously fake gambit, but that's just me. From what I've seen from hosting and playing with him, Wilgy likes to try new things, both as civilian and mafia.

So the gambit itself doesn't make me put him in one category or the other. Knowing that he purposefully has made such a gambit, GTH I see a genuine interest in Wilgy trying to solve the game, particularly when he was interacting with FZ. regarding his Diiny read.

I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm not rushing to condemn his actions as mafia. Old MP might have done that, but old MP learned a lesson the hard way earlier this year in Economics, where G-Man's behavior was so illogical (he posted only in pictures nearly the whole game, lied about being cursed to do so, finally stopped doing it and admitted he lied when I put enough pressure on him, but then continued to do it anyway, among other things). I branded him as 100% mafia and pursued him with the utmost confidence, only to find out he was civilian. My mind is still recovering from that crazy flip, and ever since it's made me hesitate to regard any crazy, illogical behavior as automatically mafia.

?

#704

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Diiny wrote:lmao is it confirmed that wilgy's bullshitting now? talking about a thought process that mechanically couldn't have happened?
No fuckin shit.
So, concession?

Coy.

#705

motel room wrote:in the second 24 hours of today we'll surely get a sober Wilgy and I think that'll be more enlightening than the current drunk, "depressing", self-vote Dr. I still think that cop gambit was towny.

Back in RYM land on pretty sure his first game with infodumping, MP tried a cop gambit which backfired on him but he made the move as town. A new game mechanic, town tries the tricks, imo.

so here, MP, while I think I agree with you, whats different about your gambit and his, because you were part of the reason I feel Wilgy was town but you are distancing from what he's done:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Enrique wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Enrique wrote:I thought he was hinting at actually being the doctor, which he pretty much just straight up denied ("nonsense lyrics") and leaves me exactly where I was before. DrWilgy is a liar and he's bad.
DrWilgy seems to always say "I am most certainly (not) a doctor!" every game; is that what you're referring to?

I've never heard of a n0 peek being red, so I don't know why anyone would entertain Wilgy to be telling the truth.

I'm confused as to why FZ. followed it. I'm also confused as to why FZ. thinks I would put in more effort so far as mafia, despite her second post saying I've been "caught" posting too much as mafia before. My posting frequency is not indicative of my alignment.
No. Basically, I realized that DrWilgy being the Doctor was the only way his actions could make any sense while being a civvie. False claiming draws out the cop AND allows him to protect him, right? It's not a great plan but I literally can't think of any other reason a civ would lie so blatantly. He made some cryptic post about watching people in the night and I was like "huh, I get it." Turns out there was nothing to get.

Diiny wrote:Enrique

Diiny wrote:I want to understand what you think wilgy's plan/particular brand of scumminess is, help me out. Because his plan seems bizarre from any angle, scum or town.
The "crazy bastard" brand. Diiny, gonna be honest here, your reactions to Zebra on the first day looked bad as fuck to me. You took every single piece of bait anyone left, you had a pretty unsatisfying reaction to Wilgy's "outing" of you, and overall looked like a baddie that got got. You could be Wilgy's teammate and this could be some crazy tactic to get himself certified civ credit for the rest of the game, I don't know, but the only thing I'm sure about right now is that he's bad. I'm being very serious, and this goes out to you as well as MP, Sorsha and whoever else... if we can get enough votes on Wilgy, I guarantee you we will get a baddie.

linki- how?? How do Wilgy's actions make sense from a civvie perspective at all?
They don't make much sense to me personally; I would never pull such an obviously fake gambit, but that's just me. From what I've seen from hosting and playing with him, Wilgy likes to try new things, both as civilian and mafia.

So the gambit itself doesn't make me put him in one category or the other. Knowing that he purposefully has made such a gambit, GTH I see a genuine interest in Wilgy trying to solve the game, particularly when he was interacting with FZ. regarding his Diiny read.

I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm not rushing to condemn his actions as mafia. Old MP might have done that, but old MP learned a lesson the hard way earlier this year in Economics, where G-Man's behavior was so illogical (he posted only in pictures nearly the whole game, lied about being cursed to do so, finally stopped doing it and admitted he lied when I put enough pressure on him, but then continued to do it anyway, among other things). I branded him as 100% mafia and pursued him with the utmost confidence, only to find out he was civilian. My mind is still recovering from that crazy flip, and ever since it's made me hesitate to regard any crazy, illogical behavior as automatically mafia.
?

You underestimate my ability to drink herh herh herh...

Nah you are probs right...

FZ you have good points. Ill address them l8r g8r <3

#706

When I told my new doctor what I drink, his eyes became shot glasses as he said, "A day?"

#707

I insist that the scum team identify themselves so we can just get this over with.

#708

JJJ, FZ, Diiny. Bam.

#709

#710

Diiny wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote:
Diiny wrote:Oh, I thought he was accusing me of that but I guess he was just saying what happened generally?

In which case floyd tell me which of these votes are the most suspicious. Five to choose from.
Epi voting for me, although I think he just has a problem with me which he won't mention.

Motel's vote for Dfaraday is the one the also perplexes me.
I mean of the five votes for enrique.

Epi mentioned the fact that Mac voted for Enrique, despite saying he was "confirmed scum".

Enrique
5
JaggedJimmyJay (11), DrWilgy (12), MovingPictures07 (13), MacDougall (15), Diiny (16)
31%

After that turnaround, after having agreed (er, not disagreed) with Mac's list of "confirmed townies," after witnessing Mac put the deciding vote on Enrique the cop, after all that, you don't have ONE thing to say about MacDougall?

Maybe I'm not so simple minded.

This actually perplexes me for two reasons.
1. What drew Mac to change his mind? (I may need to reread the thread for this).
2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

Epi, what makes you think that Triple J and I have any association with each other?

#711

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

#712

Epignosis wrote:3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

#713

Alright, I'm here. Catching up now.

#714

Epignosis wrote:3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

Dude that's a little bit confrontational and mean. I called you Epi from pretty much the first game and you never had a go at me.

#715

Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

#716

Phone at work.

When I read Epi's case against me, my gut tells me "wrong" and not "manipulative". I'll re-examine my suspicion and defend myself when time permits.

Zebra's reception of his case reads town to me. Some others seem receptive-but-tentative though, as I'd expect from those who know it'd be a lynch of town JJJ.

We'll see how I feel tonight.

#717

I'm barely going to be around today. After reading responses, I'm going to put my vote on Wilgy for now. If anything interesting happens by the time I have to leave, I'll consider changing it.

#718

Oops, I fell asleep not long after I started catching up.

#719

Epignosis wrote:3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

Personal theory confirmed.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Phone at work.

When I read Epi's case against me, my gut tells me "wrong" and not "manipulative". I'll re-examine my suspicion and defend myself when time permits.

Zebra's reception of his case reads town to me. Some others seem receptive-but-tentative though, as I'd expect from those who know it'd be a lynch of town JJJ.

We'll see how I feel tonight.

It's a bit convenient that only after someone other than Epi finds your vote/case/whatever against him suspicious, you backtrack and say it now reads more wrong than manipulative. It doesn't help that you had no response to me when I asked you what about his posts made him actually bad.

FZ. wrote:I'm barely going to be around today. After reading responses, I'm going to put my vote on Wilgy for now. If anything interesting happens by the time I have to leave, I'll consider changing it.

You're playing such an easy game. Not effortless by any means, but easy. You buy into a cop claim that could very likely be fake (and surprise, it turned out to be) to justify a vote against someone you otherwise have no suspicion of, then the following day you proceed to vote for the person that made that fake claim without providing any specific reason as to why. You bad.

#720

Well... as much as I would love to catch up now, I know that I work way better in the morning, so... I'm going to study for a little while, then I'll be back, then study, then I'll be back for EoD. This game will be my refuge today.

#721

Do ya thang MP

#722

Zebra, I'm pretty sure the very next post in this thread after you asked me what made Epi bad was me pointing out things that I found suspicious about Epi.

I absolutely don't care whether my timing appears convenient. I post reads when I have them without concerning myself with how I'll look as a result.

#723

You mean this post, JJJ? I didn't think it was addressed to me when you submitted it and I didn't think it was meant to be pointing out anything suspicious about Epi either. Because, you know, it doesn't.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Now let's examine why I think Epignosis is full of shit:

Epignosis wrote:And your vote for Enrique was the weakest maneuver I've ever witnessed you make.
You didn't care enough to say this until after I accused you of something. You stated awareness of my vote, but you literally did not give a shit:

Epignosis wrote:3J put his vote on Enrique first, and then wham bam no thank ya ma'am, Enrique's votes followed.

Epignosis wrote:I don't give a shit about the Cop lynch.

Still interested in FLOYD.
"the weakest maneuver I've ever witnessed [JaggedJimmyJay] make" isn't worth your time? Not until I attack you first?

Moreover, you've spent some time shitting in the Corn Flakes of those who contributed to Enrique's lynch while propping yourself up:

Epignosis wrote:
Enrique wrote:I'm dead and I was the cop and all of you suck.
I don't suck. Just sayin'.

Epignosis wrote:So the cop was of absolutely no use to anyone because people are morons. Gonna have to do this the old fashioned way.

Epignosis wrote:I don't see why you were saved and Enrique was obliterated.
So naturally we can assume Epignosis made a concerted effort to prevent this miserable moronic disaster.

*CTRL+F for "Enrique" in Epi's Day 1 posts*

*crickets chirping*

*tumbleweed blows over the thread*

Nothing whatsoever.

#724

I agreed (and still do) with each point you made, but again, it says nothing about Epi's alignment. That was what I wanted addressed, that's what you failed to address at the time, and that's what you changed your mind about when it resulted in some heat on you. Since you don't care about how convenient your timing looks, can you out yourself as scum already and we can make this a nice peaceful day that ends with your lynching?

#725

I don't feel very hot fams.

FZ. Why are you voting for me?

#726

Sorry, this is a bad "day" for me.

Look, I'm not bad, nor have I played an easy game, zebra. If you want to lynch me, do it. I have to much in RL now to defend myself, and won't be back until the end of the day.
I've explained too many times why I followed Wilgy and why I unvoted Diiny after I realized it was fake. If you don't believe me, there's nothing I can do about it. I think when it comes to trying to understand what Wilgy was doing, and progressing the discussion around that, I did more than anyone here to try to figure it out (but that's my opinion).

I'm voting for Wilgy, because now that I know he was faking, things have changed for me. I don't have time to engage in discussion with people to come up with someone I fee strong enough to be bad. I'm back and forth on Floyd and JJJ, and I feel that Wilgy is the best choice. Go back and find the post where I explained why and don't say something which isn't true.

Wilgy basically had nothing to lose from his gambit as mafia. He took no risk at all. He came out looking really good from it, and he said he'll answer my points but he hasn't. Since I don't have time to wait any longer, I'm voting him. If he does answer and his answers feel legit, don't vote for him, so he'll only have my vote. I can't do better than this.

I'm out

#727

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:While I wasn't around at EOD, I'm not sure I would have changed my vote if I had been. I can understand Enrique's late phase behavior making him look worse to the people who were present, but I do think it's important that he claimed cop two minutes prior to his death (with a two vote lead over Diiny) and there didn't seem to be much budging in response. One switch from him back to Diiny would have forced a tie and possibly rescued him.

DrWilgy wrote:I swear if you didn't counter claim earlier...
Doc, you seemed to be conscious of the possibility that he was being truthful. Please try to describe your mindset in those final moments and what prevented you from moving your vote.

I am pretty sure he claimed cop after the poll ended. Or at least I didn't see the post until the poll had ended.

#728

Diiny wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote: Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

FZ. wrote:This game is getting worse by the minute

I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.
How much do you want to bet that one or both of these posters are scum

FZ in particular. Good catch. That post is mad insincere. Floyd's feelings are probably quite genuine though.

#729

DrWilgy wrote:Who wants to box? I know... But had i reacted we wouldve at least had the chance to gibe a baddie

I want to be your friend so bad irl.

#730

FZ. wrote:Sorry for the lack of contribution this day. I have a sick child at home with a very high temperature.

I read back and will try to say something at least.

I still don't think Diiny is bad.

I think I'm starting to agree with Epi on many things. FIrst, Floyd, why is he voting so early every day? This is something I think baddies, especially new players tend to do more often to not have to deal with consequences later. Second, though I said the game was getting worse, it didn't feel real to me coming from Floyd.

Then there's Epi's case on JJJ. It looks quite compelling. Not to mention jjj seemed to misunderstand me a lot yesterday, which I thought was weird, but let it go (mostly because I thought it was me not being clear enough).

Finally, while I'm not sold on this, I think it needs to be brought up:
I think Wilgy can easily be scum. Who had the most to gain from his stunt? He did.
It makes him look like the civviest of civs. First, he's "baiting" others with his gambit. Then he did the analysis of who said what. That is priceless if you're a baddie. You get the credit for doing such a thorough job trying to find baddies. Everyone replied in some way, didn't they? Now, all he had to do was find things he could use.
Not to mention, this was a great way to draw out the real cop, like someone else mentioned.
Notice, he moved his vote from Diiny to Enrique even though he said he prefers to vote for Diiny. Enrique was the one who was the most suspicious of him.

Ok, sorry FZ. I didn't remember this post (sorry) I'll address point for point:
1. I don't think your mentality is an all encompassing civ mindset here. If I had everything to gain, I also had everything to lose. Putting myself out there as mafia isn't something that I think would be a very good long term strategy, plus the chances of catching a cop and putting myself out there arent worth the risk/reward. As far as gaining cred for half finishing an analysis for doing things that civs should do... Would you rather me have done nothing? Not put anything on the table after my shenanigans? I wasn't going to cause a great amount of chaos if I didn't think we would gain aything from it, and for you to discredit my work is rather sad. Finding this I could use is also a false. There is nothing I can use to push an angle that I generate. Enrique made it obvious that he was hiding something and didn't trust his team to sort through my confusion. Based on that, I thought he was hiding the fact that he was scum, only later I realized he was hiding himself. The fact that others voted for him as well means they too must've "found" something to use on him correct?
2. How was this a great way to draw out real cop? Tell me, because as far as I'm concerned this is just an opinion.
3.This is true, I wanted to vote for Diiny, but JJJ's responce to my ISO had made me waver on the thought process "Could JJJ be correct in that my judgement is based on coinflip perspective?" and that made me change my vote to the person activly hiding information.

Now that I'm slowly remembering events. Diiny, the reason why I was so concerned about Enriques claim is because I had thought that I still had time to switch. Because of that thought, I had a good amount of time during the night to regret and think about my reaction with the mentality of "I could've done something different."

Diiny for now, I would like to see how this develops.

Linki - <3

#731

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Diiny
DrWilgy
MovingPictures07
FZ.
TheFloyd73
Epignosis
motel room
DFaraday

For those you who think James is a badder. I give to you my revised scumlist. Aren't I a unique snowflake.

Yes, I have moved Diiny waaaaaaaaay up the list. His play so far today has felt really nice and genuine to me. He has been very discerning. Me likey. DrWilgy was my previous best town read but he's dropped a little bit, not because of that bit where he tried to justify why he didn't change his vote, when he couldn't have but his posts since. He's drunk posting, which is annoying, but he's also chaos posting which I feel like a drunk guy would do when they get caught doing something bad. But, the lions share of his ISO is good so he stays high, and linki: he's back doing decent stuff so I can chalk up his mini chaos mode to drunken embarrassment.

I am firmly on James's side when it comes to the conversation between he and Epignosis. I have literally no idea where/why Epignosis shot out of the gate at Floyd and why he's being so mean to him, and I feel it's more likely to be a scum picking an easy target to produce content around than a civ just taking pot shots at a 16 year old new guy for kicks right?

Motel Room continues to bug the shit out of me, not because his content is bad so much, but that it's so measured. He only posts when he notices things that he can comment about, so I feel like he is avoiding discussions on the tough subjects and his posts have been very ... mild? Very ... conscientious? It's just a strange look. On top of that I just don't read him as genuine at all. Motel Room if you want to shake my suspicions I suggest you get your hands dirty.

Now I am strong civ reading a ton of players in this game and for that reason I have DFaraday as bad as fuck because of his low content. That's it really. I am scum reading him because I am civ reading mostly everybody else.

Jimmy and Zebra are coming across the best to me. Their thoughts are clear. I can comprehend them. I am vibing. Big ups to both if they are bad though. Lolz at Zebra having her vote on James though. That'd be right.

MP drops a bit because he's busy, it's not he that's moved so much as others around him.

FZ ... is strange. Half the posts look good to me and then some... not so good. FZ could be a baddie working their way into the game. The post Diiny caught is a bad look for FZ if you're looking for insincerity it's about the worst in the game.

Floyd, man just surely not? He's looking scummy again now that he's made some posts but surely, just surely not. He can't be scum again. If we were playing roulette or blackjack I'd put all my chips on it. Chance cannot be that cruel? I think he'd have probably replaced out if he was bad again too. But, he really does look bad. Ick. Floyd please be civ and play like it if you are. Google some advice or something.

Unfortunately, I have no extremely strong feelings about anybody. My vote for now is going on Motel Room. It could go on Epignosis or DFaraday by days end unless I see a scum tell that turns out to be wrong with 15 minutes left to go and contribute to another civ lynch by lynching a town read.

#732

DFaraday wrote:Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

"more or less caught up"

Are you caught up? How can you be more or less? Did you start on page 3 instead of page 1? You've made three posts in a game where everyone else has made a ton. You need to post more or you're going to get lynched for lurking dude. If you're a bad guy that's going to suck for your teammates. If you're a bad guy, please reply to this with a promise of producing more content and then go back to lurking so we can lynch you tomorrow. If you're a civ, what do you think of motel room voting you? Pretty neat huh.

#733

Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?

#734

MacDougall wrote:
DFaraday wrote:Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.
"more or less caught up"

Are you caught up? How can you be more or less? Did you start on page 3 instead of page 1? You've made three posts in a game where everyone else has made a ton. You need to post more or you're going to get lynched for lurking dude. If you're a bad guy that's going to suck for your teammates. If you're a bad guy, please reply to this with a promise of producing more content and then go back to lurking so we can lynch you tomorrow. If you're a civ, what do you think of motel room voting you? Pretty neat huh.

As tired as I am of the "I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior" meme, I will point out that Dfaraday's activity is mirroring SWM... I dont know if it should be alignment indicative at this point.

#735

motel room wrote:
MacDougall wrote:I dispute that his opinions are genuine. Always saying the most obvious thing in an alien tone.
My opinions are genuine and my tone is i dunno my tone. I'm probably never going to trust you as much as I did in the Talking Heads game but if you're town your guts off this time.

MacDougall wrote:Room's posts are grey and they smell like ashes.
fucking what

If I am town, I am off my guts? What? You know that all my reads were wrong?

You're never going to trust me as much as you did in the game that was a bad guy? Are you just trying to say that I fooled you too good for you to town read me? Surely if I play differently to that game then you'll town read me right? Or are you just justifying turning your light OMGUS into full blown OMGUS later?

Your opinions are genuine I'm sure. When you say things like this...

It can be genuine if you are bad.

Spoiler: show

This can be genuine if you are bad.

When it comes to balls on the line scum reads. You've given us this...

motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:u first tiger
right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:
motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:Any other thoughts, motel room?
I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

Anything else? On, you know, anything that's being discussed.
you don't want to know why I'd be suspicious of you?

Your suspicion of enrique is strange because according to you, the only reason you had a scum read on him for having two scum reads and having trouble deciding which to vote for? How exactly is that scummy, like at all? I mean especially in hindsight, but your reason is the most obviously forced reasoning I can remember seeing in ages and would still be so if he flipped scum. If he flipped scum I'd expect you'd be bussing him. But speaking of bussing, or at the very least distancing your interactions with DFaraday are a little bit curious...

motel room wrote:
DFaraday wrote:The conversation really hit the ground running in this game. And here I thought tree Mafia would be more easygoing.
lets hope it gets a bit more breezy there fella.

Yeah cool we're all having fun here. I mean, both of you look to me like bad guys trying to blend in with the fluff posts but that's not much...

But where's your vote today? Oh it's on Mr 3 posts. Yeah I scum read him, but ... at least I made a point of why, and tried to question him relevant to his content. What's the point of asking him who he would have voted for yesterday? Your vote looks a hell of a lot like a scum putting a vote on a lurky teammate who is coming under no scrutiny. Is it going to stay there? Probably not now. But I reckon it would have had a good chance of staying there...

Speaking of questions Motel Room. About half of your posts are really pointed questions. Have you actually made any determinations with your questions. I haven't seen much follow up to the answers you received. Where's the goldmine of knowledge that has come about from your scathing questions? Are you sure you aren't just asking questions to feign contribution?

#736

a2thezebra wrote:Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?

JJJ has made numerous more recent posts so you're going to have to be specific. I haven't seen a thing from James to make me question his alignment. I often am guilty of trying to see what isn't there with him for the glory of the thing so I understand if that's happening but like, Epignosis is outright OMGUSing him and I can't really see fault in what James is saying about him and I have no idea what you apparently saw to vote for him. I swear I saw you basically call Epi's case on him Epi shit before so weren't you agreeing with him? So perhaps let's start with you explaining yourself and I'll see if I follow the logic hey?

#737

Here's a good reason that DFaraday is bad. He's been here but he hasn't pushed anybody for an actual reason despite being more or less caught up. He just stated two mild looks. Why wouldn't he at least ask a question in the minute he put in today so far? Why didn't he try to be civ at all?

#738

Even Floyd asked a question.

#739

TheFloyd73 wrote:
Diiny wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote:
Diiny wrote:Oh, I thought he was accusing me of that but I guess he was just saying what happened generally?

In which case floyd tell me which of these votes are the most suspicious. Five to choose from.
Epi voting for me, although I think he just has a problem with me which he won't mention.

Motel's vote for Dfaraday is the one the also perplexes me.
I mean of the five votes for enrique.
Epi mentioned the fact that Mac voted for Enrique, despite saying he was "confirmed scum".

Enrique
5
JaggedJimmyJay (11), DrWilgy (12), MovingPictures07 (13), MacDougall (15), Diiny (16)
31%

After that turnaround, after having agreed (er, not disagreed) with Mac's list of "confirmed townies," after witnessing Mac put the deciding vote on Enrique the cop, after all that, you don't have ONE thing to say about MacDougall?

Maybe I'm not so simple minded.
This actually perplexes me for two reasons.
1. What drew Mac to change his mind? (I may need to reread the thread for this).
2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

Epi, what makes you think that Triple J and I have any association with each other?

Floyd I already answered that and I stated it at the time. Enrique started to behave the same way that Enrique behaved in the other game he got lynched as a bad guy. That's why I flipped. My other scum reads weren't anywhere near as strong as the ping I got from him.

#740

a2thezebra wrote:I agreed (and still do) with each point you made, but again, it says nothing about Epi's alignment. That was what I wanted addressed, that's what you failed to address at the time, and that's what you changed your mind about when it resulted in some heat on you. Since you don't care about how convenient your timing looks, can you out yourself as scum already and we can make this a nice peaceful day that ends with your lynching?

How exactly does Epignosis throwing shade on those responsible for Enrique's lynch not indicate alignment. It's a hell of a thing for a guy to do to create a reaction. I actually give it a pretty bad look because the actual lynch of Enrique was the responsibility of at least some civilians due to the actual number on it, so for him to blanket state that we're all dumb for it isn't saying we're bad for it, so what exactly is it saying? You can take it both ways but it's an easy thing to invoke emotion out of so for you to say it says nothing about his alignment I don't agree with. Or are you saying that his posts aren't saying anything about Epi's alignment, not what Epi has actually done? If so, I actually tend to agree. But neither seem to be actually making points against each other that are alignment indicative so if it's bad they're both bad looks for it.

I must say I have now briefly entertained the idea that they are distancing from each other. Gosh an Epi + JJJ scum team is a scary proposition.

Now, Jimmy choosing to say that it was wrong rather than scummy indicates Jimmy thinks Epi is a civ I suppose. Which is, as you point out, an unusual backtrack for him.

#741

I gotta say, it all pales in comparison to what I just pointed out about Motel Room though. Specifically.

1. He has only blasted out one accusation and the reason for it didn't make any sense.
2. He has asked a lot of questions that he has done nothing with at all.
3. His vote is on a scummy looking lurker right now after having a fluffy interaction with the guy on day 1. An alignment of either a) distancing or b) putting his vote on an easy out.

#742

MacDougall wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?
JJJ has made numerous more recent posts so you're going to have to be specific. I haven't seen a thing from James to make me question his alignment. I often am guilty of trying to see what isn't there with him for the glory of the thing so I understand if that's happening but like, Epignosis is outright OMGUSing him and I can't really see fault in what James is saying about him and I have no idea what you apparently saw to vote for him. I swear I saw you basically call Epi's case on him Epi shit before so weren't you agreeing with him? So perhaps let's start with you explaining yourself and I'll see if I follow the logic hey?

Sure. First, I called Epi's post Epi shit primarily to show him the error of his ways and shocker, he didn't get the point. I also wasn't convinced that his reactionary vote to JJJ was nothing more than an OMGUS, at that point at least. I was in agreement with JJJ's criticisms of Epi but I didn't see how JJJ was reaching the conclusion that any of those criticisms were alignment-indicative, so I asked him what made him think that. He responded with more criticisms that, to me at least, also seemed just as likely to be Epi being Epi as any sort of manipulation. More likely, actually. Epi's next post responding to JJJ convinced me that he was in fact being opportunistic (manufactured, bullshit, etc) with Epi's actions and statements in the game so far, so I voted JJJ.

Fast forward a bit.

Now despite claiming to look forward to an argument, JJJ returned to the thread with this post, and this is the main one I was curious to hear your opinion about Mac.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Phone at work.

When I read Epi's case against me, my gut tells me "wrong" and not "manipulative". I'll re-examine my suspicion and defend myself when time permits.

Zebra's reception of his case reads town to me. Some others seem receptive-but-tentative though, as I'd expect from those who know it'd be a lynch of town JJJ.

We'll see how I feel tonight.

I think JJJ saw that his opportunistic attempts at turning town against Epi had been discovered, so he decided to back-track big time and say what a civ JJJ would have said in the first place; Epi's case is wrong but not manipulative. Ironically, JJJ's case is both wrong and manipulative. His promised re-examining of his suspicion is highly dubious, and when I call him out on it, he overreacts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra, I'm pretty sure the very next post in this thread after you asked me what made Epi bad was me pointing out things that I found suspicious about Epi.

I absolutely don't care whether my timing appears convenient. I post reads when I have them without concerning myself with how I'll look as a result.

#743

MacDougall wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I agreed (and still do) with each point you made, but again, it says nothing about Epi's alignment. That was what I wanted addressed, that's what you failed to address at the time, and that's what you changed your mind about when it resulted in some heat on you. Since you don't care about how convenient your timing looks, can you out yourself as scum already and we can make this a nice peaceful day that ends with your lynching?
How exactly does Epignosis throwing shade on those responsible for Enrique's lynch not indicate alignment. It's a hell of a thing for a guy to do to create a reaction. I actually give it a pretty bad look because the actual lynch of Enrique was the responsibility of at least some civilians due to the actual number on it, so for him to blanket state that we're all dumb for it isn't saying we're bad for it, so what exactly is it saying? You can take it both ways but it's an easy thing to invoke emotion out of so for you to say it says nothing about his alignment I don't agree with. Or are you saying that his posts aren't saying anything about Epi's alignment, not what Epi has actually done? If so, I actually tend to agree. But neither seem to be actually making points against each other that are alignment indicative so if it's bad they're both bad looks for it.

I must say I have now briefly entertained the idea that they are distancing from each other. Gosh an Epi + JJJ scum team is a scary proposition.

Now, Jimmy choosing to say that it was wrong rather than scummy indicates Jimmy thinks Epi is a civ I suppose. Which is, as you point out, an unusual backtrack for him.

I didn't interpret Epignosis' criticisms of the Enrique voters as throwing shade, just classic Epi shit-talking. You concede here that it looks more like he wasn't saying anyone was bad, but rather dumb. This is an Epi move that transcends alignment. So what I'm saying is that I wouldn't jump to conclusions that anything Epi has done in the game so far is alignment-indicative. Epi's more recent posts against JJJ definitely make a good case that JJJ is being opportunistic and manipulative, so I would say that Epi is making points against JJJ that is in fact alignment-indicative. I don't think their conflict is at a stalemate and I don't think they are teammates, but I won't rule out the possibility.

#744

a2thezebra wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?
JJJ has made numerous more recent posts so you're going to have to be specific. I haven't seen a thing from James to make me question his alignment. I often am guilty of trying to see what isn't there with him for the glory of the thing so I understand if that's happening but like, Epignosis is outright OMGUSing him and I can't really see fault in what James is saying about him and I have no idea what you apparently saw to vote for him. I swear I saw you basically call Epi's case on him Epi shit before so weren't you agreeing with him? So perhaps let's start with you explaining yourself and I'll see if I follow the logic hey?
Sure. First, I called Epi's post Epi shit primarily to show him the error of his ways and shocker, he didn't get the point. I also wasn't convinced that his reactionary vote to JJJ was nothing more than an OMGUS, at that point at least. I was in agreement with JJJ's criticisms of Epi but I didn't see how JJJ was reaching the conclusion that any of those criticisms were alignment-indicative, so I asked him what made him think that. He responded with more criticisms that, to me at least, also seemed just as likely to be Epi being Epi as any sort of manipulation. More likely, actually. Epi's next post responding to JJJ convinced me that he was in fact being opportunistic (manufactured, bullshit, etc) with Epi's actions and statements in the game so far, so I voted JJJ.

Fast forward a bit.

Now despite claiming to look forward to an argument, JJJ returned to the thread with this post, and this is the main one I was curious to hear your opinion about Mac.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Phone at work.

When I read Epi's case against me, my gut tells me "wrong" and not "manipulative". I'll re-examine my suspicion and defend myself when time permits.

Zebra's reception of his case reads town to me. Some others seem receptive-but-tentative though, as I'd expect from those who know it'd be a lynch of town JJJ.

We'll see how I feel tonight.
I think JJJ saw that his opportunistic attempts at turning town against Epi had been discovered, so he decided to back-track big time and say what a civ JJJ would have said in the first place; Epi's case is wrong but not manipulative. Ironically, JJJ's case is both wrong and manipulative. His promised re-examining of his suspicion is highly dubious, and when I call him out on it, he overreacts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra, I'm pretty sure the very next post in this thread after you asked me what made Epi bad was me pointing out things that I found suspicious about Epi.

I absolutely don't care whether my timing appears convenient. I post reads when I have them without concerning myself with how I'll look as a result.

Okay! Good stuff. I do follow. Gee you're a good look this game.

A defense of JJJ would be that, man it's very easy to get caught in the heat of the moment and start analysing shoddy content as shoddy and see scum for it. Him backtracking on it blatantly in the thread could very easily just be him approaching it with a refreshed perspective.

However, I do find it strange that he then said that the posts were his things he found suspicious when the actual posts he is referring to were him effectively civ reading Epignosis.

These are unusual inconsistencies from James, and I don't have much experience with a James who has been caught effectively lying... My gut says though that a scum James would not get caught like that. I don't even think a scum James would bother posting on his phone while distracted with work because he's too cautious to even risk the possibility.

But you have shaken my read somewhat.

Now tell me how you feel about my case on Motel Room.

#745

Sorry I was in da shower.

I like your case against motel room but I'm cautious about getting behind it for one reason and one reason only. He looks too bad. I know that's kind of a cop-out on my part, but I have trouble supporting the lynch of a player whose actions seem too dangerous and too overtly transparent for a baddie to make. I'm in kind of the same place with Wilgy, although in Wilgy's case his actions are pure WIFOM whereas with motel room I think I could be more easily convinced that he's more likely low-key scum than bizarre town. Time will tell.

#746

It doesn't help that I gut read (and I mean pure gut) motel room as scum in TH when he was town, so my confidence in reading him has been damaged to say the least.

#747

a2thezebra wrote:I agreed (and still do) with each point you made, but again, it says nothing about Epi's alignment. That was what I wanted addressed, that's what you failed to address at the time, and that's what you changed your mind about when it resulted in some heat on you.

That it "says nothing about Epi's alignment" is completely subjective, and I honestly don't know why you feel that way. I think the things I referenced are suspicious behavior for reasons that ought to be self-explanatory and my willingness to reconsider my read is inspired by his more thorough output against me, which I'll address shortly.

If you don't think those things are suspicious then fine, you're not required to. We disagree.

a2thezebra wrote:Since you don't care about how convenient your timing looks, can you out yourself as scum already and we can make this a nice peaceful day that ends with your lynching?

Right, well I think you'd better revisit this Day 1 strategy if you're willing to employ this kind of language.

a2thezebra wrote:Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.

#748

Okay so opinion one is that Motel Room is too bad to be bad.

Anyone else?

#749

To put it the most simply, Zebra: you seem to agree that if Epi is town, his initial approach to this game was a poor one.

I think Epi is a very capable townie and anything less than that is a valid reason to suspect him. I illustrated various examples of his play being beneath his standard, and that's frankly not very different from what he has insinuated about me at least once in this game. Neither of us seems to think the other is up to spec, and we're both casting suspicion for it.

#750

Moreover, if there is one characteristic of a town JJJ that you should all know by now it's a total willingness to change my mind with the wind. I don't tunnel and I won't tunnel.

What say you?