FZ. wrote:Whoa, you people managed to talk a lot while I was sleeping. It's a good thing it's internet pages and not real paper. So many trees would die...
I have no idea what the hell Diiny wants from zebra. At some point, I lost interest in that conversation. I'm not sure I find Diiny suspicious for that, but this whole Wilgy Diiny craziness is interesting.
DrWilgy wrote:Also, for those of you who think I wouldn't use my check on Diiny vs someone else, Diiny killed me in TH. That was my reason for the check.
Ok Diiny. Since you can't get the fact that I checked you, what do you think of MP's plan?
Last game I was the cop and MP didn't ask me who I wanted to target on day 0, I just got a name and alliance. This is a MM game, so I'm not sure they work the same though.
But if Wilgy is the cop, I can't see him outing himself so blatantly, unless he figures that one in the bag is worth the risk, and if he tries to hint with subtlety, the mafia will know who he is anyway. This way, if there's a doctor out there, he'll know who to protect.
Not sure I buy this theory myself, but the other possibility is that Wilgy is just trying to stir the game and encourage conversation. In any case,
I like it a lot better than the Diiny-zebra back and forth
Somewhat belabored first post. I've yellow-highlighted a couple bits in which FZ was vocally dismissive of the Zebra/Diiny interaction of Day 1 because I don't understand why she felt this way. Why was that interaction of less interest to you than anything else that had been posted to that point? It's an odd thing to emphasize, particularly when one of the players involved is also involved in a different dynamic that
did tickle her fancy.
I also orange-highlighted FZ casting doubt on Doc's cop claim. This is more intuitive so y'all may or may not agree, but I think the mafia team were more likely to feel the need to cast public doubt on Doc's cop claim than townies were. They're the ones under pressure to get that right ASAP and have a personal motive to cop hunt -- even if blatantly (there'd been no mafia BTSC yet).
FZ. wrote:DrWilgy wrote:I did say he is my night 2 check didn't I?
Sorry, I missed that. I'll be voting Diiny for now. It sucks to go out this way, so I feel for him if he's really mafia, but I think this is a chance we need to take.
Not a great post. She clearly had doubts about Doc's honesty as the real cop, and apparently has town read Diiny elsewhere in the thread. This is not an inspiring vote.
FZ. wrote:Diiny wrote:I'm not going to be able to post any more and I really shouldn't be posting this because I have a deadline in four and a half hours and I'm not done yet. But basically Wilgy's up to no good. He's left it too late for this to be some kind of ruse with the intention of seeing how fast people bandwagon onto me. That said, it's probably telling how quickly some people bandwagoned onto me. Bottom line: I'm town, and wilgy's trying to get me killed.
I agree that he's kept it for too long too, so what would he have to gain if he were bad? That's why I think he's telling the truth.
Zebra, last time ignored an obvious hint I almost saved a baddie. Trying to correct that and figure out what's going on. If Wilgy tells me he was faking it, I'll take my vote off, no matter how it makes people view me. As of now, my vote is staying put.
This highlighted portion is something Sorsha brought up a couple of times. I believe it's a reference to the Dune game? Anyone else who participated in that game that hasn't already commented on this matter really ought to do so. FZ apparently got some reads wrong in that game, seemingly reads that were apparent to other players, and she refers back to those mistakes to justify her willingness to vote for Doc's red peek in this game.
Zebra, Mac, Epi, anyone else from Dune... what do you think of this?
FZ. wrote:Enrique wrote:Diiny was going one way or another, as far as I can tell you're the only one voting for him because Wilgy said so.
He's hooking the doctor. That's true. You don't need to be good to do that. If the Doctor protects a scummie, that gives them free reign to kill whoever they want that night, plus the cred of a claimed role.
DrWilgy is definitely lying.
Not sure I get what you're saying.
If Diiny is not bad, the doctor, assuming there is one, does not protect Wilgy, and
we all know Wilgy is bad. What the hell did he gain from that other than getting a civ lynched on the first day which is most likely to happen anyway with the odds. Don't see it.
Unless you're saying he's bad and Diiny is bad too, and they're trying to make Wilgy look better and gain credit. Again, why?
Yellow: These statements are separated in the language but go together in the logic -- and it's bad logic. Perhaps manipulative. Diiny flipping town would not immediately imply that Wilgy is mafia. If Wilgy is town
and Diiny is town, then I'd imagine the mafia team was salivating at the chance to get them both lynched in succession. If.
Orange: I don't get it. This bit ends with "why?", but FZ answered her own question in the preceding sentence. Is it beyond belief that Wilgy might hard bus a mafia mate to gain significant credit?
FZ. wrote:And yes, I admit that other than Diiny's weird back and forth with zebra, which I just didn't get where he was coming from with it, but wasn't nearly enough for me to think he's bad, the only reason I'm voting him is Wilgy's word. What's wrong with that?
The answer is rather obvious, I should think. Placing enough trust in another player on Day 1 to vote along with him despite having otherwise town read the target of his crusade is a big pill to swallow.
FZ. wrote:Wilgy, I think that if you're lying and you're not bad, it is seriously fucked up to lynch someone like you're doing now.
I was waiting for FZ to acknowledge a possible town angle for Wilgy's behavior. This is it, and it's emotive. A feel a little tug of town in my gut, like she'd be less likely to deliver this sort of
scold if she were posting from a position of deception.
FZ. wrote:DrWilgy wrote:FZ. wrote:Wilgy, I think that if you're lying and you're not bad, it is seriously fucked up to lynch someone like you're doing now.
Even if I did think Diiny was bad?
You never gave any reason to why you thought he was bad, and I'd get it if it went just so far, but most of the day has revolved around this issue. I think it's coloured every decision made in the game. If you were lying as a civ, and a civ is lynched, the next people to get lynched are civvies as well, I'm pretty sure about it, and we end up getting 3 civvies dead by the end of next day. I think that's a lousy risk.
Please tell me if you were lying. I think the "scheme" has been going long enough.
I don't follow why
three civilian lynches would be the likely product in this situation (I'd understand two). Apart from that specific number though I am somewhat appreciative of FZ's frank assessment of Wilgy's methods. I think she's wrong about the strategy here, but that doesn't mean she's bad.
FZ. wrote:linki: Yeah, I'm an eager to buss baddie, you caught me
*involuntary eye twitch*
FZ. wrote:Out of all the votes on me, Sorsha's seems the most opportunistic. I said that the exact reason I'm choosing to trust Wilgy's information is the fact that in the game she's talking about, I almost saved the baddie because I was looking anywhere but the obvious information. It was a bad game on my part, but in my defence, the roles weren't as simple as this game. The fact that Sorsha chose to ignore my post and just latch on my other posts, makes me
her big time.
Another reference to Dune. I reiterate my call for players in that game to report on her play in it and how they feel about her references to it in this game as justification.
FZ. wrote:Wilgy, I think that's a shit ass way to get to the end of the day.
If you're not lying now, you should have ended up this fiasco way sooner. I think it twisted things, but hopefully, something good will come out of it eventually. I didn't think Diiny is bad before you came along with your gambit, and it coloured everything for me, so I'm taking my vote off. If it comes down to me against him in terms of votes, I'll put it on him again, but if not, I won't be voting him. The way he's handled everything today makes me feel good about him, and you were the real reason I voted for him.
Now, looking back at everything that has transpired, the person that worries me the most is Epi. At the risk of alienating the only person that seems to defend me this game, there was something about his defence that felt like he knew defending me might come handy later on, while not really getting involved in the Diiny lynch either way. I also think the Floyd lynch is too easy, but I was too engrossed in the Diiny debacle to pursue another line.
So for now, I'm moving my vote to Epi.
I can't fault her for reading Epi similarly to me. The highlighted bit is a pretty distinct read though, I am not sure how she could have this sort of intuition about Epi's defense. FZ, what made you feel this way?
FZ. wrote:This game is getting worse by the minute
I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.
Epi, why are you so focused on Floyd? Was he bad in the game you hosted or was it another game?
Perhaps the most dramatic reaction to the cop lynch aside arguably from Floyd's.
FZ. wrote:Sorry for the lack of contribution this day. I have a sick child at home with a very high temperature.
I read back and will try to say something at least.
I still don't think Diiny is bad.
I think I'm starting to agree with Epi on many things. FIrst, Floyd, why is he voting so early every day? This is something I think baddies, especially new players tend to do more often to not have to deal with consequences later. Second, though I said the game was getting worse, it didn't feel real to me coming from Floyd.
Then there's Epi's case on JJJ. It looks quite compelling. Not to mention jjj seemed to misunderstand me a lot yesterday, which I thought was weird, but let it go (mostly because I thought it was me not being clear enough).
Finally, while I'm not sold on this, I think it needs to be brought up:
I think Wilgy can easily be scum. Who had the most to gain from his stunt? He did.
It makes him look like the civviest of civs. First, he's "baiting" others with his gambit. Then he did the analysis of who said what. That is priceless if you're a baddie. You get the credit for doing such a thorough job trying to find baddies. Everyone replied in some way, didn't they? Now, all he had to do was find things he could use.
Not to mention, this was a great way to draw out the real cop, like someone else mentioned.
Notice, he moved his vote from Diiny to Enrique even though he said he prefers to vote for Diiny. Enrique was the one who was the most suspicious of him.
Yellow: I dunno, I may have misunderstood you a lot. I don't think that ought to be suspicious. It doesn't have to mean you weren't clear either. Sometimes meanings just aren't understood.
Orange: Valid observation. I am skeptical that Doc had any inclination that Enrique was the cop (by "drawing him out"), but it could still be seen as a measured move to eliminate his most vocal foe. We'll have to re-examine Doc's stated reasons for getting off of the Diiny train to gauge that theory.
FZ. wrote:Sorry, this is a bad "day" for me.
Look, I'm not bad, nor have I played an easy game, zebra. If you want to lynch me, do it. I have to much in RL now to defend myself, and won't be back until the end of the day.
I've explained too many times why I followed Wilgy and why I unvoted Diiny after I realized it was fake. If you don't believe me, there's nothing I can do about it. I think when it comes to trying to understand what Wilgy was doing, and progressing the discussion around that, I did more than anyone here to try to figure it out (but that's my opinion).
I'm voting for Wilgy, because now that I know he was faking, things have changed for me. I don't have time to engage in discussion with people to come up with someone I fee strong enough to be bad. I'm back and forth on Floyd and JJJ, and I feel that Wilgy is the best choice. Go back and find the post where I explained why and don't say something which isn't true.
Wilgy basically had nothing to lose from his gambit as mafia. He took no risk at all. He came out looking really good from it, and he said he'll answer my points but he hasn't. Since I don't have time to wait any longer, I'm voting him. If he does answer and his answers feel legit, don't vote for him, so he'll only have my vote. I can't do better than this.
I'm out
FZ's entire game has largely been DrWilgy-centric, begrudgingly trusting him on Day 1 and staunchly opposing him on Day 2. While her Day 1 willingness to work with him is hard to understand, I wouldn't call her stances inconsistent -- she spent the whole of Day 1 saying she thought Doc was bad if he was lying. So it makes sense for her to have tunnel vision on him right now.
The highlighted portion is not ideal though. I rarely like it when people are willing to vocalize their own voting discomfort quite like this (there's a memorable incident with scum Sloonei doing this on RYM). I can understand
being uncomfortable, and some part of me felt the same way when I left my vote on Enrique before having to bail the thread way early on Day 1. But I still endorsed his lynch because it was my biggest suspicion, as it appears to be for FZ. One has to decide whether her hesitation is caused by a mafia-inclined unwillingness to take responsibility for a strong stance, or a town-inclined uncertainty in a game she seems to have been struggling with at various points.
~~~
Overall, I'm annoyed to have such a mixed bag. There are numerous negatives here and a few things that make me feel better about her too. I don't think she's the clear cut Best Lynch that some others seem to be branding her to be, but I also don't think she can be a town read. If I were to rainbow, I think she'd be orange.
[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]
in this post that I think can be associated with an indignant townie. It's a small point though.