Tree Mafia [GAME OVER]

[a2thezebra]

You asked me to summarize what I had already said, so I did.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You asked me to summarize what I had already said, so I did.

Right, I don't mean to crap on your summary. I'm just giving the only answer I can give, so you can judge accordingly.

[MacDougall]

motel room ISO

Spoiler: show

And the answer is...

BECAUSE HE'S SCUM!

woo!!

If you say so.

DrWilgy

what does he stand to gain by lying right here on Day 1? Or do you think he's bussing?

I mean no offense to motel room when I say that this question seems rather dense. Whether Wilgy is town or mafia, I think it's pretty clear what benefits he might potentially enjoy as a result of his lie. It looks a bit like filler.

Spoiler: show

We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

I think this post will be important later. Bookmark it.

Spoiler: show

zebra, care to place a bet on me being scum? If you win, name your prize

FZ

Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

I'm mildly fond of these. I think this manner of a'ight bro well here's some suspicion out of the blue is within motel room's town boundaries.

Spoiler: show

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

This is probably his worst post for me; I agree with Mac that it's not great. I could understand viewing Enrique's treatment of Doc and Diiny dubiously (I did), but I don't see why switching his vote between his suspects was a crime. Townies do this all the time. This might be a manufactured attack.

Spoiler: show

Probably gonna switch to FZ for self preservation soon

Moving to FZ for self prez and that.

Someone tell me why they're voting me when Wilgy is literally just lying and there's no such thing as a non vt peek

Pretty soon I'm gonna change my vote. Heeere goes, look..

This is a 48 hour day. Self preservation now?

Valid question.

Spoiler: show

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?

I like motel room adopting an "edgy" read because he's never been afraid to disagree with popular opinion -- it's one of his best town traits. His self-awareness is also appealing. My only question here is why motel room felt the need to announce the edgy read and its edginess.

Spoiler: show

in the second 24 hours of today we'll surely get a sober Wilgy and I think that'll be more enlightening than the current drunk, "depressing", self-vote Dr. I still think that cop gambit was towny.

Back in RYM land on pretty sure his first game with infodumping, MP tried a cop gambit which backfired on him but he made the move as town. A new game mechanic, town tries the tricks, imo.

so here, MP, while I think I agree with you, whats different about your gambit and his, because you were part of the reason I feel Wilgy was town but you are distancing from what he's done:

*snip huge quote*

I told you the reader to bookmark the earlier post because I knew this one was coming. I think they combine to evidence a pretty solid town-inclined mindset for motel room. He had this distinct thought in mind: that MP pulled a fake red peek in [maybe] his first open setup with legal infodumping. Let's return to the bookmarked post:

Spoiler: show

We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

On Day 1, when confronted with Wilgy's fake red peek maneuver, motel room had the presence of mind to ask him this specific highlighted question: "have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?" This means that in this moment motel room was recalling what MP did in RYM #89 (faked a red peek as a vanilla townie) and applying that memory to Wilgy's move in this game. This looks like a very real effort to get a read on Wilgy based upon real data in motel room's personal Mafia arsenal. I love it.

~~~

Overall, there are a few moments that I'd question but I think he looks good in light of the bookmarked point. I welcome any dissenting perspectives -- I'd really like to know what MP thinks of motel room in light of this. And Diiny, since he also played in RYM #89.

Hmmm ... it is a good look.

[Diiny]

You actually make a very good point here. With my inexperienced and (self-confessed) awful Mafia skills, I do tend to focus on myself. I've done it on other games as well, I know. Epi's played in the same games as me a couple of times, so he's picked up the style of my generally awful play.

What I'm about to explain can prove Epi to be either town or scum, but what you decide it up to you.

You've got to pick up the easy meat with your eyes closed.

(I'm a Floyd fan, what do you expect?)

If Epi is scum, he's trying to rid of the easy meat (AKA me) to make a jump start on us.
If Epi is town, he's trying to rid of the easy meat (AKA me) as he assumes I'm an easy scum target.

Anyway, thanks for the compliment Diiny.

I know it can be hard to focus on things outside yourself and by all means if you're town you should be defending yourself when people vote for you, but you've still gotta find the scum after you save yourself. I need to see more of that, floyd, and I know it's hard (I remember my first game vividly) but you'll learn, and you'll learn by starting to question and interact with the content in the thread that doesn't necessarily concern you. Ask questions even if you're worried they'll make you look like an idiot, I definitely still do. I appreciate that paragraph, though. I had a similar moment... and I'm not going to say what that was until more people react to your paragraph.

Basically I think you're bad, but I've at least got a picture of what a town floyd looks like now. Make that picture more vivid if you're town. Question people. Post. Present evidence and findings. And most importantly, don't be afraid to take a stance. and goddamn tell me why it's suspicious that I voted enrique in self preservation. If you'd never considered what I posted in my rant, you can just admit as much.

If Epi is scum, he's trying to rid of the easy meat (AKA me) to make a jump start on us.
If Epi is town, he's trying to rid of the easy meat (AKA me) as he assumes I'm an easy scum target.

Yes, pushing the easy button is something scum like to do. What about how obviously he's been doing it, though? How does that make you feel? I'll say how I feel about it after you answer, because I have a fear that you've been piggybacking opinions this game which isn't good.

What does the second (epi town) option mean? "He assumes I'm an easy scum target so he's trying to take me out because he's town." Does easy scum target mean someone the scum would try to sell as bad? In this case I have no idea what you mean.

[Diiny]

Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

This game is getting worse by the minute

I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.

How much do you want to bet that one or both of these posters are scum

Why?

I explain this, but yeah it's insincere and posts like that (oh man this game eh) have a history of netting scum. You don't agree? I also just recently saw FZ's "Wanna make a bet" post in an iso and that gives me the heebie jeebz hard.

[a2thezebra]

You asked me to summarize what I had already said, so I did.

Right, I don't mean to crap on your summary. I'm just giving the only answer I can give, so you can judge accordingly.

I feel you, bad guy

[Diiny]

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

this is floyd's best post.

I wouldn't have been happy with anything but a similar response thing to Epi's comment about being called Epi, and he questions epi's stance on him as you'd expect. I'd like to see a bit more ferocity, but going on a per-post makes it better. Not that I'm condoning his low post count and that he seems to still be focusing almost entirely on himself. I doubt he'd have questioned epi if he wasn't crusading against him.

Still a scum read.

I don't understand why this is Floyd's best post. Care to talk with me about this?

Makes an argument that makes sense for the first time, reasonable reactions to epi's assault.

[DrWilgy]

So I'm still out of town and don't have time to catch up before EOD. I have suspicions towards Diiny and FZ still. I don't feel comfortable with how close I am to being lynched, Diiny would you be willing to change off me to FZ? I will as well

[a2thezebra]

ugh DrWilgy

[DrWilgy]

ugh DrWilgy

Lol why?

[DrWilgy]

If my logic is flawed in what im doing let me know

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd like more feedback on that motel room ISO. I think I found meaningful evidence that he is town. I made a similar point about bcornett in Talking Heads and nobody seemed to listen. It's nice to remove people from the pool.

I like the Mac was receptive to it despite his prior stated strong suspicions. He seems appropriately willing to re-assess, though his vote hasn't moved.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny would you be willing to change off me to FZ? I will as well

You pretty much did the same thing on Day 1. "If y'all change to Enrique I'll do the same". FZ wants you dead just like Enrique did. What say you?

[DrWilgy]

Also, I don't have alot of time. Got a movie to catch in an hour.

Linki I find them suspish. Them voting me hasn't affected who I vote.

[Marmot]

Reminder to all you fine woodland folks. The day period ends in just under 2 hours. Get your votes in!

[DrWilgy]

[DrWilgy]

I am becoming increasingly concerned... Maybe it has something to do with my current alcohol intake... but regardless.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

[MacDougall]

I'd like more feedback on that motel room ISO. I think I found meaningful evidence that he is town. I made a similar point about bcornett in Talking Heads and nobody seemed to listen. It's nice to remove people from the pool.

I like the Mac was receptive to it despite his prior stated strong suspicions. He seems appropriately willing to re-assess, though his vote hasn't moved.

Gotta have somewhere to move it to Jimmy. There is time.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

[DrWilgy]

My phone will die soon. Who do I move my vote to to not die as well?

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

[MacDougall]

I say we lynch DFaraday.

[DrWilgy]

Mac, bro, plz save me. I'm asking for a bro favor, I wouldn't propose that unless it was to save a civ, me. I swear.

Linki - Will that actually happen?

[MacDougall]

Mac, bro, plz save me. I'm asking for a bro favor, I wouldn't propose that unless it was to save a civ, me. I swear.

Linki - Will that actually happen?

Wilgy I don't think you are bad, but I'm not going to just vote a random to save you. I will vote for a person I think is bad. If you vote Faraday I will vote Faraday and he will be on 3 votes. But I also don't want you to self preservation vote yet. I want you to scum hunt and prove that my read is founded.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

I don't agree that I was being rude. I don't use sarcastic orange because if you have to explain the joke, it isn't funny. Moreover, I find value in how seriously some people took what I said. Getting reactions over something that (to me) was obvious nonsense, I think, provides something to look back upon, no?

[MacDougall]

Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

Still waiting for the follow up on this.

Metalmarsh where are you currently at with mod killing DFaraday for not voting/posting? Can you find a replacement? This game is too short for him to be not contributing. 3 posts in this game so far is not good enough. I checked and he has not been online since at all, so he's clearly just got life in the way. Can you find a replacement quickly? Anyone observing want in?

[DrWilgy]

My FZ suspicion hasn't faded. Recent events have me suspish of Diiny, FZ > JJJ > Dfaraday, Epi > everyone else

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

I don't care about it, but I can understand why the person being told that -- particularly Floyd -- would respond the way he did. How the hell should he know whether you're being serious.

[Tangrowth]

/ wild sock appears!

[Tangrowth]

ISO me and Diiny MP, and I dare you to still have Diiny higher than me on your list when you're finished.

I'd love to this, time permitting. Let me catch up and engage in current conversation first; if I can get to it, you got it.

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

I don't agree that I was being rude. I don't use sarcastic orange because if you have to explain the joke, it isn't funny. Moreover, I find value in how seriously some people took what I said. Getting reactions over something that (to me) was obvious nonsense, I think, provides something to look back upon, no?

You sound like an unrepentant bully. Even if it was an attempt at humour it was mean spirited. You don't have to add to it with arrogance. It was only obvious nonsense to you. I think it's a good look for those who called you out on it and tbh it's a bad look for you.

I can see where Jimmy is getting the idea that you and Floyd are teammies. You came straight out of the gate with what can be construed as strong distancing, and your inability to understand that it appeared hurtful is possibly coming from the fact that you know full well that he isn't upset by it because you've talked in BTSC. You've also managed to get Floyd top town read by a range of players by putting him in the position of the victim.

[Tangrowth]

That's posturing. If Floyd goes down as bad, you would have already called dibs on the theory that I was throwing a teammate under the bus.

Perhaps a better term than "strong desire to defend Floyd" would be "strong inclination to town read Floyd". Yes, I did defend Floyd to some degree because I didn't think his attacker could justify his attacks. I never called him a town read though. I never gave any actual read of him, because on Day 1 having a read on Floyd would have been bullshit.

As for dibs, you're damned right. You said the same thing about me. If he's bad, see you then.

If you think this, then what do you make of Diiny's read of Floyd on Day 1? I remember him expressing a mafia Floyd read before EoD D1.

[Tangrowth]

Me too. Why can't you talk about the potential baddie influence on lynching the cop AND be interested in floyd?

Why "can't?"

Is there some restriction on me?

I'll talk about what I like. I have nothing to say about it.

I want to lynch FLOYD.

What is wrong with you? Seriously, tell me.

Anyway, another needless "last minute lynch switch" (it's got another name, I know, I can't be bothered remembering it). Diiny

Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

Floyd, I don't recall any thoughts you've made on Diiny to explain your vote here or previously. Care to provide some insight?

Voted Enrique, inconsistent chat (my reason for voting on day one is an example).

Floyd, sorry, I'm confused. What do you mean by inconsistent chat?

[MacDougall]

Tinfoil hat on...

Jimmy, Epi and Floyd are the bad guys.

[Tangrowth]

Tinfoil hat on...

Jimmy, Epi and Floyd are the bad guys.

Elaborate.

[MacDougall]

Tinfoil hat on...

Jimmy, Epi and Floyd are the bad guys.

Elaborate.

What would you expect the in game play to look like with this team wearing the black hats?

I would expect it to look exactly like it is.

[Marmot]

Metalmarsh where are you currently at with mod killing DFaraday for not voting/posting? Can you find a replacement? This game is too short for him to be not contributing. 3 posts in this game so far is not good enough. I checked and he has not been online since at all, so he's clearly just got life in the way. Can you find a replacement quickly? Anyone observing want in?

You may or may not have a new player in his place come Day 3.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

I don't agree that I was being rude. I don't use sarcastic orange because if you have to explain the joke, it isn't funny. Moreover, I find value in how seriously some people took what I said. Getting reactions over something that (to me) was obvious nonsense, I think, provides something to look back upon, no?

You sound like an unrepentant bully. Even if it was an attempt at humour it was mean spirited. You don't have to add to it with arrogance. It was only obvious nonsense to you. I think it's a good look for those who called you out on it and tbh it's a bad look for you.

I can see where Jimmy is getting the idea that you and Floyd are teammies. You came straight out of the gate with what can be construed as strong distancing, and your inability to understand that it appeared hurtful is possibly coming from the fact that you know full well that he isn't upset by it because you've talked in BTSC. You've also managed to get Floyd top town read by a range of players by putting him in the position of the victim.

So motel room ain't working out for you, so you've got to go to "unrepentant bully" angle, eh, old man?

I told Floyd he was bad because he called me Epi. Oh God, I'm such a bully.

And *I* "managed to get Floyd top town read by a range of players by putting him in the position of the victim." I must be amazing. I bet you wish I was on your team.

[MacDougall]

Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.

[MacDougall]

You literally did that though. The question is whether you did it as town by accident despite being genuine about him or as scum for some ulterior reason.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's posturing. If Floyd goes down as bad, you would have already called dibs on the theory that I was throwing a teammate under the bus.

Perhaps a better term than "strong desire to defend Floyd" would be "strong inclination to town read Floyd". Yes, I did defend Floyd to some degree because I didn't think his attacker could justify his attacks. I never called him a town read though. I never gave any actual read of him, because on Day 1 having a read on Floyd would have been bullshit.

As for dibs, you're damned right. You said the same thing about me. If he's bad, see you then.

If you think this, then what do you make of Diiny's read of Floyd on Day 1? I remember him expressing a mafia Floyd read before EoD D1.

I'm ISOing Diiny right now and just commented on this. You'll see it shortly.

[Tangrowth]

JJJ, thanks for this ISO of FZ.

I have a few comments:

First, I've seen FZ. regardless of alignment exhibit the following two behaviors for which you gave her a bad look:
1) Vocalize dismissing back-and-forth arguments she doesn't feel are productive.
2) Vocalize staunch discomfort with her own vote.

So while I do think that "squashing discussion" and vocalizing can be mafia indicative in general, if one were to consider FZ.'s meta, I would be tempted to give her a neutral look for such comments.

Second, I appreciate that you made the point that FZ.'s logic regarding DrWilgy is at least consistent, because when I read through her drastic flop it initially struck me as an incredibly bad look. Now I don't feel so badly about it, though it still bothers me.

Third, I'm intrigued that you called your analysis a "mixed bag", because it seemed to me like you gave her significantly more negative points than positive ones. What's making you hesitate to declare her a stronger read?

Lastly, unfortunately I didn't play Dune, and am only mildly aware of the events of the game, so I cannot provide insight with regards to those observations.

I'm really glad you did this because I actually walk away after reading your ISO and typing all of this feeling slightly better about FZ., which I didn't expect, but she's still pretty low on my rainbow. I hope, if she is civilian, she can get her head into the game more properly soon and address some of my (and others') concerns.

[Tangrowth]

If you're still taking requests for ISOs, JJJ... DFaraday...

The one post I made imploring him to follow through on his pledge to catch up and comment was my DFaraday ISO. There are three posts in there, I can't do anything with that read unfortunately. He'll be dead neutral until I have more.

I could GTH him -- it'd be town. Only because town is more likely than mafia and he has a history of lurking.

I see... that's a good point. :P

How do you suppose we approach evaluating him going forward? I'm reminded of the Vompatti situation in Economics; let's say DFaraday is mafia. What do you think is the best way to handle that scenario?

[MacDougall]

I actually think DFaraday's posts make him look like a scum lurker more than a civ lurker. Civ lurkers pop in and toss votes around when they know they can't be sure to be around. He hasn't. He's popped in and said a dude was bad and a dude was good but he didn't vote.

[Tangrowth]

Mac, let me finish catching up first and I'll review over your recent posts. Just want you to know I'm not ignoring you.

[MacDougall]

Yeah whatever dude.

Epi do you really think I'm old.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.

What a crock of shit. You don't know what you would expect of me if I was on a Mafia team with them. You aren't qualified to say that, because you've never even seen me play as Mafia.

If I were on a team with a new or inexperienced person, I would not throw that person under the bus for credibility. That's unsportsmanlike. My goal, especially in a skirmish with no banner or GoC qualification, would be to help the player refine his skills and enjoy the BTSC company. I wouldn't give a damn about winning a game like this at the expense of helping someone gain experience and nurture a potential future relationship. Inexperienced players would be less likely to want to continue playing if their experienced team uses them as fodder and doesn't let them experience the game.

And, just to drive home the point that you know stuff-all about me as Mafia: In all the games I have ever been in from the beginning, having been Mafia many many times, how many times did I throw a teammate under the bus before, say, Day 4?

I'll see if you know the answer to that.

[Epignosis]

You literally did that though. The question is whether you did it as town by accident despite being genuine about him or as scum for some ulterior reason.

I literally did not do that. I am not to blame for people saying Floyd is good. They are.

[Tangrowth]

JJJ, re: your ISO of Floyd, I'm torn, and I don't think I feel any differently about Floyd after reading it. It all comes down to whether one belives Floyd's consistently indignant tone is indicative of a particular alignment; I'm not convinced one way or the other, since Talking Heads was Floyd's first game, was completely massive, and from what I can recall I thought (1) he took more stances in Pet Sounds than he has here and (2) he seemed less indignant. But then both of those could easily be a result of Pet Sounds being a very different (and slower) game than this, and the fact that he's catching heat from Diiny and Epi here, and not his alignment.

The observation regarding Floyd's "Usually if I notice something I want to make noted, someone already beats me to it" sentiment was something I hadn't thought of... I'm not sure how to reconcile that with a town look over a mafia look though. Can you elaborate on that for me?