Tree Mafia [GAME OVER]

#1251

Diiny wrote:
motel room wrote:There's about 24 hours left
I like that aokiji is exploring his options. this is LYLO. There's no reason not to give everyone a bit of pressure for anything that bugs you. Although yeah I'd be mad if it was as near the deadline as you thought

EBWOP: should have a plus at the beginning of my para

#1252

Diiny wrote:
motel room wrote:There's about 24 hours left
I like that aokiji is exploring his options. this is LYLO. There's no reason not to give everyone a bit of pressure for anything that bugs you. Although yeah I'd be mad if it was as near the deadline as you thought

Yeah sorry that certainly changes things.

Then again I have had a motel room neg read forever.

I have to admit I dunno shit.

#1253

motel room and sig just having a chat in btsc about scum related stuff

#1254

this is some softcock shit. No movement in hours. yeahh this is how we'll turn it around.

Ok I'm trying on the pants. ISOs.

#1255

lol actually no, just got a msg - pub first. Then this.

#1256

motel room wrote:this is some softcock shit. No movement in hours. yeahh this is how we'll turn it around.

Ok I'm trying on the pants. ISOs.

Lol yeah right.

#1257

MacDougall wrote:motel room and sig just having a chat in btsc about scum related stuff

I was in mourning my untimely demise in Star Wars.
I'm hesitant to vote for Diiny I was wrong about JJJ, so I'm not going to rush into a vote.

What does everyone think of Epi?

#1258

sig you've said fuck all of any significance this lylo do speak up any time. who's bad.

Also as happy as I am for MP for his exam smashery I'd like it if he did what he resolved to do. So much of his content is making excuses and I'm annoyed that now that his exams are over there's been no increase in drive from him. It felt to me like he was doing a pretty good job of keeping up so I don't know what's stopping him anymore unless I've missed something. Anyway, MP, who's bad.

Floyd STILL NOT FUCKING telling us why I'm bad. I'm getting happier with his lynch every second.

linki: lol hi sig. Gimmie some stances. Hopefully epi will come back and actually finish explaining his stance on me with reference to my content and flip on floyd because as it stands I'm pinged out.

#1259

Sorry for the absence, was up all night finishing off final grades for my students. But now I'm done.

Going to get some breakfast and start tearing it up.

#1260

motel room wrote:there's a lot of little separate shit going on that I want to get my head around but I'm somewhere like this right now:

MacDougall
MovingPictures07
Epignosis
sig
a2thezebra
TheFloyd73
JaggedJimmyJay
Diiny

If this is the case, then why isn't motel room voting for Diiny right now, and why for his 3rd top read?

#1261

Diiny wrote: linki: lol hi sig. Gimmie some stances. Hopefully epi will come back and actually finish explaining his stance on me with reference to my content and flip on floyd because as it stands I'm pinged out.

Like I said reading over the thread I thought 3J was bad and was saving you. Finding out he was a civvie makes me hesitant to vote for you.

3J thought you were scum which doesn't help you, he also had a GTH mafia read on MP, right know I'm leaning towards a Diiny vote, but it seems like that vote won't work out. I'll need to think it over some more. I'll come back after school, and I'll read over Epi and MP. I would like everyone's opinion on Epi and motel room please.

#1262

Regardless of whether Diiny is civilian, he's the easy button lynch right now, since he's been in the hot seat for days. I'd rather put some pressure votes elsewhere, then switch to Diiny if that's what you all decide is best (since it's LYLO, gotta keep unanimous in the end).

I have to say though, catching up I am not reading any bad vibes from Diiny. I'm struggling to understand the case. Someone help me out.

#1263

Regarding JJJ's posts about me, he's wrong. I was distracted by RL and Star Wars during Day 3, and I really thought JJJ was bad, based more so on my gut. I asked him questions and his answers made sense, but they didn't really convince me he was civilian. I thought that lynch would crack open the game. If anyone wants me to address any concerns, I'd be happy to, but otherwise I want to focus more on catching mafia.

#1264

I'd like to lynch sig today.

#1265

MovingPictures07 wrote:Regardless of whether Diiny is civilian, he's the easy button lynch right now, since he's been in the hot seat for days. I'd rather put some pressure votes elsewhere, then switch to Diiny if that's what you all decide is best (since it's LYLO, gotta keep unanimous in the end).

I have to say though, catching up I am not reading any bad vibes from Diiny. I'm struggling to understand the case. Someone help me out.

Hardly shocking, since you voted against lynching Diiny two of three times. Now he's the easy button? He's been saved at least twice and here it is Day 4, with you coming in here calling off the dogs "regardless of whether Diiny is civilian." I'd hardly call that "easy."

My vote stays.

#1266

sig has gotten many townie points for his contributions since FZ. replaced out, but reading them over again, many of the connections he makes re: JJJ are not due to his own behavior but others' behavior, implying JJJ is a teammate of other players. sig also says he's "very confident" in his read of JJJ. I think some in this thread, even including myself, were too easy to give sig a pass when he subbed in just because he said a lot of stuff. But I was alarmed by FZ. for several good reasons. Yes, obviously RL was a distraction for her, so she subbed out, but since then sig hasn't really been on the table. I think that may be a mistake. I'm going to put a pressure vote on him now.

I'll keep discussing though, and I want to do some investigative digging.

#1267

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Regardless of whether Diiny is civilian, he's the easy button lynch right now, since he's been in the hot seat for days. I'd rather put some pressure votes elsewhere, then switch to Diiny if that's what you all decide is best (since it's LYLO, gotta keep unanimous in the end).

I have to say though, catching up I am not reading any bad vibes from Diiny. I'm struggling to understand the case. Someone help me out.
Hardly shocking, since you voted against lynching Diiny two of three times. Now he's the easy button? He's been saved at least twice and here it is Day 4, with you coming in here calling off the dogs "regardless of whether Diiny is civilian." I'd hardly call that "easy."

My vote stays.

What is the reason for your vote exactly? Mind you, I still need to read the last two pages (working on that now).

#1268

And yeah, I voted against lynching Diiny because all I see is him trying to figure out who is mafia. Where the hell are these votes coming from?

#1269

Epignosis wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I would prefer a Diiny lynch over JJJ because I think that JJJ is more likely to be misunderstood (and extremely unlucky) this game, but I'm content with either lynch and I'm willing to switch to JJJ if there's a CFD on a player I'm less confident about than the two currently leading the votes.
I don't see how 3J is more likely to be misunderstood. Diiny has been in the hot seat for a while now. I understand 3J a hell of a lot better than I understand Diiny. You were, after all, comfortable enough a moment ago to call 3J Diiny's teammate, yet you'd only switch to 3J under certain circumstances?

That has me wondering about you now.

#1270

Epignosis wrote:I have 50% shot at being right at this point. No one will lynch Floyd. So motel room it is.

Why motel room?

#1271

I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.

#1272

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.

I didn't fight against the 3J lynch? I called for the 3J lynch.

You're bad.

#1273

Here, have a rainbow.

MacDougall

Diiny
motel room

TheFloyd73

Epignosis
sig

#1274

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.
I didn't fight against the 3J lynch? I called for the 3J lynch.

You're bad.

That's my point.

Now you're baselessly accusing me after failing to mention me all game? Bullshit you believe that.

#1275

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.
I didn't fight against the 3J lynch? I called for the 3J lynch.

You're bad.
That's my point.

Now you're baselessly accusing me after failing to mention me all game? Bullshit you believe that.

Baselessly?

Get your facts together, cowboy.

#1276

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.
I didn't fight against the 3J lynch? I called for the 3J lynch.

You're bad.
That's my point.

Now you're baselessly accusing me after failing to mention me all game? Bullshit you believe that.
Baselessly?

Get your facts together, cowboy.

That says nothing about whether I'm mafia. It also says nothing about Diiny being mafia.

#1277

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm starting to think I'm wrong about Epi. He begins throwing some shade on zebra for going after Diiny over JJJ, then right out of the gate Epi votes motel room (with no explanation), now he's shifted his vote to Diiny after throwing out a few questions at him.

Scenario: Epi is mafia, and he's kept me alive because I've been town reading him, and he didn't fight against the JJJ lynch because JJJ was his accuser.
I didn't fight against the 3J lynch? I called for the 3J lynch.

You're bad.
That's my point.

Now you're baselessly accusing me after failing to mention me all game? Bullshit you believe that.
Baselessly?

Get your facts together, cowboy.
That says nothing about whether I'm mafia. It also says nothing about Diiny being mafia.

What does say something about whether or not someone is Mafia then?

#1278

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
That says nothing about whether I'm mafia. It also says nothing about Diiny being mafia.
What does say something about whether or not someone is Mafia then?

You're putting the cart before the horse and saying I'm bad because I've voted against someone you think is bad. I don't think Diiny is mafia, and I've been vocal about that all game, so how does me not voting for him indicate that I'm mafia?

Voting records can say that, but you're taking them in this case to develop a theory that you didn't even state forthright in that post. Then you wait for me to come at you to proclaim that I'm bad. I don't understand why.

#1279

And, again, why exactly do you think Diiny is bad? I haven't gotten a response on that. Just because someone has survived three lynches doesn't make them bad. I'm feeling an Economics-type scenario here where Diiny is G-Man, and I don't want to lose this game without catching a single mafia thank you very much.

#1280

Diiny, talk to me about why we should lynch Floyd over anyone else.

#1281

motel room wrote:lol actually no, just got a msg - pub first. Then this.

Paging motel room

#1282

Epi, where you'd go, bud? I wanted to talk with someone.

#1283

MovingPictures07 wrote:Epi, where you'd go, bud? I wanted to talk with someone.

I'm at work. It's Leo DiCaprio time.

#1284

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Epi, where you'd go, bud? I wanted to talk with someone.
I'm at work. It's Leo DiCaprio time.

Enjoy.

#1285

I think I'm going to try my hand at an Epignosis ISO. Stay tuned.

#1286

Diiny, I see you!

Thoughts? Want to answer my question about Floyd?

#1287

Diiny OR DEENY.

PAGING DEENY.

#1288

The tree puns from Epi to start the game...

#1289

Okay, I'm going to post this Epignosis ISO in chunks, since it'll be easier to read and I will be busy this afternoon because I have a few meetings.

#1290

Epignosis - ISO

Day 1: We all know it as "The Floyd Crusade"

Spoiler: show

Which I can't help but give an inconclusive look. I gave Epi townie points for this earlier because I argued he was genuinely shaking the tree. That was my gut interpretation, and I'm still inclined to think it is correct. But I could just as easily see a mafia Epi shaking the three with Floyd (as a civilian). I still can't really see the Epi/Floyd teammates connection, but I guess it's possible.

Epi has some other posts that indicate he's busy, some insights / observations regarding the paradigm setup, nothing worth anything other than a null look I think. Feel free to look through his posts yourself if you're interested though. Since there are currently 82, I'm not going to include them all.

Spoiler: show

Epi is throwing some shade at Diiny here for turning his question back at him. I'm not sure what to make of it... I forgot this post even existed. If you all think there's something here, let me know; otherwise, null.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Okay FZ, I was reluctant to call you out on misrepresenting my argument when it comes to what exactly I think Wilgy is doing in this game in the last post I made, because I feel like I call people out on that too often when it's not true and/or warranted. But this is just too much. Let me go back and take a look at your magnificent concoction of assumptions and straw man arguments.
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:And I need to make it clear and more vocal that there's a difference between being wrong for being wrong and being wrong for being bad.
WTF does that supposed to mean?
You're only trying to justify your Diiny vote as being based on Wilgy's claim because it's easier to pull off as genuine than faking a reason why you think he is actually bad or at least inconspicuously parroting everyone else that does.
This is ridiculous. Either Wilgy is telling the truth or not. If he is, then I find trusting him to be the best thing to do. Since you're not voting Wilgy, I'm assuming you think he's lying about knowing for a fact Diiny is bad. If that's the case, you should be a lot more worried about him than you are me, but don't let logic confuse you.
Alright, so your assumption (and you even admit, it is in fact an assumption) that I think Wilgy is lying stems from me not voting for him? I could write a piece that Ayn Rand fanboys would appreciate based on how illogical that assumption is, but I'll move on instead.
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:This is most likely because he's your teammate but it's still a valid hypothesis even if he's somehow not.
I must be really dense today, because I swear to god, I'm not understanding half the players this game.

Two options I've seen brought up:

1. Enrique: Wilgy and Diiny are bad. The former is throwing the latter under the bus by fake claiming something that the real cop knows is not true.

2. Zebra: Wilgy is lying, and taking the most stupid risk I've ever seen someone take (it's not like he can use some excuse that his actions got redirected or whatever) which will be discovered the minute Diiny is lynched, and I'm following him because it's easier to show I'm trusting him instead of finding a real reason to suspect someone.

I'd like to call at least one of you bad, but these theories seem so far fetched that I can't possibly think a baddie would be that crazy to try and pin them on people.
So to recap, you've gone from an assumption about one of my hypotheses based on me not voting for a particular player, to representing that assumption that you have made as an "option" that you've seen me brought up. Calling this misrepresentation wouldn't even do this justice anymore. This is lying, plain and simple. I don't think Wilgy is lying and I don't think he's telling the truth either. As I've already made clear earlier, what Wilgy is doing is pure WIFOM to me that could go too many different ways to make any assumptions about, which makes it all the easier for baddies such as yourself to use a fake perspective on what he is doing to your advantage. And you are not following him, you are faking following him. If you can't see that aspect of my argument then that means you've most likely been caught red-handed, because bottom line, that IS the argument itself.
This post is biggest bunch of zebra shit I've ever seen.

Epi calls zebra out on bullsuit. More on this in a bit.

Spoiler: show

Epi explains that he will consider changing from Floyd if his chronic non-participation changes. Pointed question at zebra. I'd say this is a good look; it genuinely shows an Epi that is interested in engaging zebra on something he views as a logical fallacy, and then he shows a willingness to budge re: Floydgate.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:This post is biggest bunch of zebra shit I've ever seen.
I'm reminded of your prophetic "This is horseshit" in Talking Heads in response to a Russ post about Black Rock (both mafia). For that reason I'm especially interested in Epi abruptly calling posts some manner of shit. Could you point out the moments in that Zebra post which inspired this reaction from you? Maybe I'll agree.

a2thezebra wrote:Okay FZ, I was reluctant to call you out on misrepresenting my argument when it comes to what exactly I think Wilgy is doing in this game in the last post I made, because I feel like I call people out on that too often when it's not true and/or warranted. But this is just too much. Let me go back and take a look at your magnificent concoction of assumptions and straw man arguments.
"Magnificent concoction of assumptions and straw man arguments"

This phrase to be over the top and unwarranted. It's Day 1. I would think a civilian a2z would be welcome of such things, not be suspicious of them (not that I agree of this caricature of FZ.'s contributions).

It's especially ironic, since zebra said this about my intentions:

a2thezebra wrote:Your "suspicion" of Floyd is personal and at least you're more or less admitting it here, but that doesn't change the fact that you are advocating a policy lynch over many other town-preferable options. If you don't like his participation in the site, then there are other ways of handling it besides dragging down our chances of winning.
My vote for Floyd isn't personal, and it isn't a policy lynch over "many other town-preferable options." How would a2z know which options were in the civilians' best interest? Unless a2z is a cop (and I have no reason to believe that is the case), then this comment, too, is unwarranted. Far too many times have I witnessed Mafia coast to endgame by staying out of it. If Floyd is Mafia, then I have no intention of letting him coast. If he's a civilian, then he's not contributing and wins if he's dead anyway (from what I understand).

But marinate on the "many other town-preferable options" for a moment. Note that a2z never specified which options those were.

a2thezebra wrote:My work here is done. If the rest of town doesn't see the value in your lynch, that's their problem at this point.
Of what value is this post?

Finally, in the end of the zebrashit post, FZ. lays out a pair of scenarios and a2z calls her a liar. I don't understand that at all.

When asked for elaboration by JJJ, Epi responds with this. I'd call it a good look, as he expands on why he's interrogating zebra, and it still reads genuine to me.

Then zebra, JJJ, and Epi talk about policy versus personal, nothing of significance there, IMO.

Spoiler: show

Epi's last post of Day 1. Null read from me. Questions JJJ's assessment of Epi's vote/behavior and a little bit of interaction with FZsig.

Despite having obvious pings from zebra, he didn't move his vote from Floyd. Consider that fact a bad look.

Overall, I'm not sure what to make of Epi Day 1. I'm definitely reminded why I was town reading him, and I think I'd lean town based on Day 1 behavior... but it's difficult to assess whether Epi's Floyd Crusade was a genuine town gambit or a way to avoid committing to an inevitably falsified suspicion if on the mafia team.

#1291

Oh my god, I'm so slow at these. Fuck.

#1292

Epignosis - ISO

Day 2: "Doubling Down"

Spoiler: show

Doubling down.

I just picture Epi with sunglasses at a blackjack table saying this.

A bit of a back and forth ensues between Epi and Diiny after Epi says:

Spoiler: show

this to Diiny. The back and forth is later construed to be a misunderstanding, and Epi returns to his FLOYD kick.

I don't understand where Epi's train of thought is here, because other than his one post re: Diiny where he thought his turning the question back at him to be "pointless", I didn't see Epi say anything regarding Enrique, or really express any substantive suspicion of Diiny.

If I recall correctly, JJJ says something similar in his exchanges with Epi. I'll see if I get to it here.

Meanwhile, Epi makes several posts aggressively pursuing a Floyd lynch...

Spoiler: show

and then starts a back and forth with JJJ regarding it:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I don't need a lecture about being inspiring and playing for lucky breaks from a guy who voted out the cop Day 1.
Horseshit ad hominem is beneath you. You're bad.
That's not an ad hominem, nor is it horseshit.
You ignored my accusation and attacked my credibility. Ad hominem.

My part in yesterday's lynch is irrelevant, and I did not lecture you.

I'm going to level with you. If you're town, you stink. You've done shit all and pretend to have high ground because shit all is better than a vote for the cop.

You're bad.
Attacking your credibility is not an ad hominem. If you are bad, then you should have no credibility.

Now, the underlined, THAT's an ad hominem, Chuckles.

Presently, I have done more for the civilians than you have. You are, as of now, a liability to the civilians. If we had voted out Floyd Day 1 and even then he turned out to be a civilian, that STILL would have been a superior play than what transpired. And your vote for Enrique was the weakest maneuver I've ever witnessed you make. Observe:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Doc's review of Enrique brought me to this post.

Enrique wrote:
motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:u first tiger
right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.
I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

The highlighted bits seem a bit inflated to me -- as in they assign importance and seriousness to something that I don't think needs to be viewed that way. Why is lynching DrWilgy a "big risk" by comparison to lynching the guy he claimed to red peek when most of us thought it was a lie anyway?

Moreover, Enrique has been entertaining the notion that Doc and Diiny are both Mafia, which makes me wonder what he thinks Diiny's lynch would reveal about Doc that he hasn't already implied. If Diiny flips town, his suspicion of Doc can persist for obvious reasons (he lied about a red peek and pushed hard for an errant lynch). If Diiny flips mafia, then his suspicion of Doc can still persist based on his own exploration of the bussing possibility.

So I'm not sure this post aligns nicely with Enrique's own stated mindset.
According to this post, you define "seems a bit inflated to me" as "[assigning] importance and seriousness to something [you] don't think needs to be viewed that way." Aside from the hedged phrasing there ("seems a bit"), the definition of "inflated" you provided is now discredited. You then ask a question that Enrique answered in the post you quoted (it's risky to lynch Wilgy before learning where he was going with his cop claim...bear in mind that it's the cop allowing WIlgy's antic).

In the second section, you preemptively cast suspicion on Enrique based on a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. That is a rotten tactic, and, ironically, it allows YOU to maintain an Enrique suspicion if Enrique survives Day 1 and Dinny is lynched either way.

So 3J, if you are the arbiter of who is stinking as a civilian, I'm not at all bothered with the insult. But you're not the arbiter of who stinks as a civilians- Mafia don't get to decide that.

I'm calling 3J and Floyd as teammates.

This becomes a running theme going into Day 3. In the last post, Epi calls JJJ and Floyd teammates; with JJJ's flip, we know that's not true.

I could see a scenario in which a mafia Epi manufactured this suspicion against JJJ on Day 2, especially since that first post "I don't need a lecture" and similar posts to start the day from Epi were confrontational; he could have been baiting JJJ into an argument.

Which is interesting... given Epi had seemingly bad vibes from zebra during Day 1, he does little to engage or pursue it re: zebra during Day 2. See below:

Spoiler: show

Instead, he continues fighting with JJJ:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Now let's examine why I think Epignosis is full of shit:

Epignosis wrote:And your vote for Enrique was the weakest maneuver I've ever witnessed you make.
You didn't care enough to say this until after I accused you of something. You stated awareness of my vote, but you literally did not give a shit:
Epignosis wrote:3J put his vote on Enrique first, and then wham bam no thank ya ma'am, Enrique's votes followed.

Epignosis wrote:I don't give a shit about the Cop lynch.

Still interested in FLOYD.
You are SO WRONG. I literally did give a shit about 11:00 this morning, thank you very much.

And I didn't look back at anybody's reasoning for voting Enrique until this afternoon, when I continued my participation (i.e., after work). That you accused me of something moments before is coincidence. And, really, you didn't accuse me of anything I wouldn't freely admit:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epignosis's crusade against Floyd is based upon what strikes me as close to nothing, so I view it dubiously. Regardless of Floyd's alignment, I don't understand Epi's conduct as a town approach -- he is shouting his desired target and apparently doesn't care much at all about anything else happening in the game. That's not inspiring, and even if he is right about Floyd it would strike me as luck at best and calculated at worst. Epi doesn't strike me as the guy that plays for a lucky break.

I don't know how one can have any conviction in reading Floyd as town or mafia right now. There's not enough there.
I'm crusading against Floyd based upon close to nothing? Check.
You don't understand my conduct as a "town approach?" Join the ever-growing club who have said that about me many times and been wrong (FZ. is the newest inducted member there).
Shouting my desired target? Yep.
Not being inspiring? It's not my job to be inspiring- it's my job to lynch Mafia.

So go ahead and make a big scene about how you came at me first and therefore my suspicion of you is contrived. I don't care. People can scream NO U or OMGUS at me, and anyone who has played with me knows I don't give a damn about that.

++++

To others:

I don't think 3J was being genuine with his vote on Enrique. 3J's vote was out of the way at the time. When the biggest discussions were Diiny and FZ., 3J casts the first vote for Enrique based on flimsy reasoning.

Therefore, I don't think 3J was expecting Enrique to get lynched. I think he played it safe and then tried to set up Enrique by preemptively commenting on a Dinny lynch, which looked like the most likely scenario at the time:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Moreover, Enrique has been entertaining the notion that Doc and Diiny are both Mafia, which makes me wonder what he thinks Diiny's lynch would reveal about Doc that he hasn't already implied. If Diiny flips town, his suspicion of Doc can persist for obvious reasons (he lied about a red peek and pushed hard for an errant lynch). If Diiny flips mafia, then his suspicion of Doc can still persist based on his own exploration of the bussing possibility.

So I'm not sure this post aligns nicely with Enrique's own stated mindset.
To those who know 3J better than I do, would a civilian 3J make this kind of "damned if Diiny flips good / damned if Diiny flips bad" against someone Day 1?

Spoiler: show

Contrast again with Epi's dealings with zebra:

Spoiler: show

What do you all make of this, now that we know JJJ was civilian? Does Epi's back and forth seem genuine or manufactured? I'm leaning more toward the latter.

Epi continues to engage JJJ on the subject:

Spoiler: show

It is notable that Epi finds JJJ suspicious for "posturing" that Floyd and Epi are teammates, yet he is doing the same to JJJ and Floyd, based on little content from the latter.

Spoiler: show

WIFOM alert.

Tinfoil hat: If Epi and Mac are teammates, then we're probably fucked.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.
What a crock of shit. You don't know what you would expect of me if I was on a Mafia team with them. You aren't qualified to say that, because you've never even seen me play as Mafia.

If I were on a team with a new or inexperienced person, I would not throw that person under the bus for credibility. That's unsportsmanlike. My goal, especially in a skirmish with no banner or GoC qualification, would be to help the player refine his skills and enjoy the BTSC company. I wouldn't give a damn about winning a game like this at the expense of helping someone gain experience and nurture a potential future relationship. Inexperienced players would be less likely to want to continue playing if their experienced team uses them as fodder and doesn't let them experience the game.

And, just to drive home the point that you know stuff-all about me as Mafia: In all the games I have ever been in from the beginning, having been Mafia many many times, how many times did I throw a teammate under the bus before, say, Day 4?

I'll see if you know the answer to that.

Spoiler: show

Now a back and forth between Epi and Mac begins. What do you all make of this?

I can see this being a distancing tactic, especially considering Epi and Mac have said very little to each other since (from what I can recall, I'll find out soon). I'm not going to call either of them bad by association unless we had a mafia flip from one of them first though.

Spoiler: show

Epi votes for Mac, despite bad pings from zebra, and a significant back and forth with JJJ (going so far as to call him and Floyd teammates).

Spoiler: show

Epi, what do you think of this behavior from Mac now?

Spoiler: show

JJJ had a problem with this post by Epi.

At the time, I didn't think much of it, since I was town reading Epi and mafia reading JJJ. Reading it again now, I'd be inclined to see merit in JJ's point, and call that post by Epi a bad look.

Spoiler: show

I could see a civilian or mafia Epi with this attitude; I've seen him aggressively pursue suspicions regardless of alignment.

That raps up Day 2. I'd call this a mafia look for Epi, though I can see it being compatible with a town perspective. What do you all think?

#1293

I have to leave for campus now, unfortunately. My meetings will probably be complete in about 3 hours. I'll head home and pick this up at that time. I'll continue the Epi ISO, because I really want to analyze his Day 3 behavior in light of his interactions particularly with zebra, Mac, and JJJ. Meanwhile, if you all have thoughts on what content I've highlighted so far, that'd be great, because I find myself torn between differing interpretations of his behavior.

I'd also love to ISO MacDougall, motel room, sig, and revisit JJJ's Diiny and FZ ISOs... but we'll see how it goes.

#1294

MP voted for me, I'm going to revert to my tried and true baddie hunting strategy.
The first person to push my lynch/vote for me is scum.
So who wants to cfd MP with me?

#1295

On a more serious note I'll read over MPand Epi.

#1296

I'm convinced no one here knows what "throwing shade" is.

#1297

MovingPictures07 wrote:The tree puns from Epi to start the game...

Intreeging

#1298

Alright, I'm here. Who's around?

#1299

MacDougall wrote:
motel room wrote:this is some softcock shit. No movement in hours. yeahh this is how we'll turn it around.

Ok I'm trying on the pants. ISOs.
Lol yeah right.

Priorities.

shaddup.

#1300

sig wrote:MP voted for me, I'm going to revert to my tried and true baddie hunting strategy.
The first person to push my lynch/vote for me is scum.
So who wants to cfd MP with me?

I hope you're kidding.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
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Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

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