[END] Pikmin Mafia

[FZ.]

RIP Sig.
Wow, this sucks. I was really hoping this day ended better. Sorry, I should have trusted my initial gut.

Epi, a big part of your suspicion of Simon was based on the fact that when you asked him if he was on Sig's team, he said he thought so. You interpreted that as him forgetting he wasn't supposed to say who his team was, and then it all snowballed from there. I know I asked you before the day ended, but knowing he didn't make that mistake when saying he thinks they are on the same team, does it change your perception of him?

I don't know that Simon didn't make that mistake (the mistake being that he's on a team but didn't look up who his teammates were when he responded).

When I read Simon's reply, it looks like maybe he was just meaning the same group as in the good guys, and him thinking both Sig and him were good, while later on he starts doubting it. Why is that not an option in your mind? Or is this more about the behaviour between you two that we're not privy to?

I thought about that possibility, but dismissed it because it doesn't make sense- if Simon is a civilian, then he does not know if sig would be on his team. If he had said, "I don't know," that would have looked pretty good to me. If he had said, "I hope so," that would have looked pretty good to me. But what he said was, "I think so," which raises the possibility of not remembering who is on his team (as opposed to not knowing).

Still here. That's a good point. But Simon has played before, hasn't he? Do you really think it's possible he forgot something so basic? Not to mention, if he had BTSC with players, wouldn't they tell him how to react to his "slip"?

[FZ.]

And now I really do need to go. Bye.

[Epignosis]

RIP Sig.
Wow, this sucks. I was really hoping this day ended better. Sorry, I should have trusted my initial gut.

Epi, a big part of your suspicion of Simon was based on the fact that when you asked him if he was on Sig's team, he said he thought so. You interpreted that as him forgetting he wasn't supposed to say who his team was, and then it all snowballed from there. I know I asked you before the day ended, but knowing he didn't make that mistake when saying he thinks they are on the same team, does it change your perception of him?

I don't know that Simon didn't make that mistake (the mistake being that he's on a team but didn't look up who his teammates were when he responded).

When I read Simon's reply, it looks like maybe he was just meaning the same group as in the good guys, and him thinking both Sig and him were good, while later on he starts doubting it. Why is that not an option in your mind? Or is this more about the behaviour between you two that we're not privy to?

I thought about that possibility, but dismissed it because it doesn't make sense- if Simon is a civilian, then he does not know if sig would be on his team. If he had said, "I don't know," that would have looked pretty good to me. If he had said, "I hope so," that would have looked pretty good to me. But what he said was, "I think so," which raises the possibility of not remembering who is on his team (as opposed to not knowing).

Still here. That's a good point. But Simon has played before, hasn't he? Do you really think it's possible he forgot something so basic? Not to mention, if he had BTSC with players, wouldn't they tell him how to react to his "slip"?

Well, it isn't like we don't have a response from him. He came back and said:

I'm not SIG's teammate. I was confused before. But I know now.

That can only be interpreted one of two ways: Either Simon was genuinely confused when he said he thought he and sig were on a team, or he is bad and still being honest about it (notice that, since we know sig is good, Simon's statement here is not a lie even if he is bad).

By the way, I almost never see coaching in BTSC.

[Enrique]

Epi how do you feel about not talking to me? :/

Could it be that when Simon said "I think so" he meant "I think he's a civilian as well"? I think it's just too big of a stretch especially when sig turned out civ.

[Typhoony]

Epi, the problem I have with you thinking Simon is bad is that I feel it is based on something that happened outside of the game.
Him giggling like a school girl led to you thinking something was up, like him being bad. Everything you've said since then about it has been based on that which makes it harder to swallow for me since it requires me trusting you that your read is correctly and I don't like doing that.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Spacedaisy]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

Yes. 2+2=4 therefore since sig is civ, and if Simon is bad, then Glorfindel needs to go.

But I'm also cool with skipping straight to lynching Glorfindel if everyone else is up for it.

Also, Enrique, what do you think of Boomslang's "I'm not down for lynching Simon...yet" Ha!

I didn't ask you to repeat yourself I asked you to explain it. I am willing to listen to any case, and if there is some logic there I might be swayed, but simply saying if this person is bad and this person is civ then this other person must be bad. I need to understand what you used to draw these conclusions. Because Glorfindel did not vote Simon?

Been there done that. I make up huge cases, they subsequently get ignored.

Spacedaisy, is there a reason you do not want to lynch Glorfindel? I'm beginning to think your readiness to lynch an 8 year old yet your continuing momma bearing of Glorfindel is suspish.

I don't not want to lynch Glorfindel. I didn't want to lynch him Day 1 for no reason considering how his last game went for him. What I do want is to understand why you have drawn the conclusion he must be bad. I'm all for voting someone who might be bad, including Glorfindel. Asking for an explanation does not equal defending him. I want to hear your case, but you aren't really giving me one and I don't understand your reluctance to explain to me what it is I must be missing that you say is as simple as 2+2=4.

[Epignosis]

Epi, the problem I have with you thinking Simon is bad is that I feel it is based on something that happened outside of the game.
Him giggling like a school girl led to you thinking something was up, like him being bad. Everything you've said since then about it has been based on that which makes it harder to swallow for me since it requires me trusting you that your read is correctly and I don't like doing that.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

My reason for thinking he is bad has nothing to do with him laughing. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I only mentioned it to emphasize that I don't have outside interactions or observations about the game with him. That was my point: That the only thing I know that no one else does was that he was laughing aloud (when he was laughing it up in the thread).

I have two reasons for thinking he is bad, and one of them has been shown to be false. So now I'm down to one reason.

[Typhoony]

It was how I read your early interactions with him. They didn't make much sense to me otherwise.

[Glorfindel]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

He can't Spacedaisy because there isn't any... I am not Mafia.

@Matt, perhaps you could remind us all again (for the fourth time) about how you are a sweet innocent little Pikmin - because frankly, I'm having an increasingly hard time believing that...

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

He can't Spacedaisy because there isn't any... I am not Mafia.

@Matt, perhaps you could remind us all again (for the fourth time) about how you are a sweet innocent little Pikmin - because frankly, I'm having an increasingly hard time believing that...

While I agree Matt has yet to explain his suspicion on you, it doesn't bode well for you to reply to his accusation with a "NO U" and also fail to explain it.

[Glorfindel]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

He can't Spacedaisy because there isn't any... I am not Mafia.

@Matt, perhaps you could remind us all again (for the fourth time) about how you are a sweet innocent little Pikmin - because frankly, I'm having an increasingly hard time believing that...

While I agree Matt has yet to explain his suspicion on you, it doesn't bode well for you to reply to his accusation with a "NO U" and also fail to explain it.

I should think that his continual baseless accusations against me are sufficient provocation for me to question where his allegiance lies. As if he were making such accusations against yourself without explanation you wouldn't find that suspicious?

[Epignosis]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

He can't Spacedaisy because there isn't any... I am not Mafia.

@Matt, perhaps you could remind us all again (for the fourth time) about how you are a sweet innocent little Pikmin - because frankly, I'm having an increasingly hard time believing that...

While I agree Matt has yet to explain his suspicion on you, it doesn't bode well for you to reply to his accusation with a "NO U" and also fail to explain it.

I should think that his continual baseless accusations against me are sufficient provocation for me to question where his allegiance lies. As if he were making such accusations against yourself without explanation you wouldn't find that suspicious?

Not especially, no.

[Epignosis]

It was how I read your early interactions with him. They didn't make much sense to me otherwise.

You should understand that if I had an out-of-thread interaction with Simon that told me he was any alignment, I would ask MP to replace me.

[Boomslang]

b) If he is bad and lynched later in the game, I'm someone his teamies (or townies even) can say "Hey look Epi didn't have any interaction with Matt whatsoever"

It amazes me how your mind works. Here's a list of people I don't have any on-topic interactions with:

agleaminranks
Boomslang
Enrique
Glorfindel
kneel4justice
Matt
Soneji

Not for lack of trying. While I suppose I didn't call you out directly, I did mention you:

@MM: Some good points. The distancing Epi performs after the lynch result is pretty astounding, especially given his vote changes, especially especially given that he did that vote change out of necessity.

However, I'm curious what you think about the timing of the sig-Epi interactions. Especially the leap sig makes from "lynching Zebra is a waster of time" to "a Zebra lynch is good too" in the span of roughly 30 minutes.

[Epignosis]

b) If he is bad and lynched later in the game, I'm someone his teamies (or townies even) can say "Hey look Epi didn't have any interaction with Matt whatsoever"

It amazes me how your mind works. Here's a list of people I don't have any on-topic interactions with:

agleaminranks
Boomslang
Enrique
Glorfindel
kneel4justice
Matt
Soneji

Not for lack of trying. While I suppose I didn't call you out directly, I did mention you:

@MM: Some good points. The distancing Epi performs after the lynch result is pretty astounding, especially given his vote changes, especially especially given that he did that vote change out of necessity.

However, I'm curious what you think about the timing of the sig-Epi interactions. Especially the leap sig makes from "lynching Zebra is a waster of time" to "a Zebra lynch is good too" in the span of roughly 30 minutes.

Well, since you've seen fit to bring it up, what about my "distancing" I performed after the lynch result was "pretty astounding?"

What distancing? And what was pretty astounding?

Also, the Bengals are fucked now.

[Marmot]

Also, the Bengals are fucked now.

Oh no you didn't!

[Boomslang]

Also, Enrique, what do you think of Boomslang's "I'm not down for lynching Simon...yet" Ha!

Ok, that's a gross misinterpretation. Actual quote:

I'm gonna tie this up based on the backpedaling of sig, which strikes me as a really bad move, and because I don't think Simon deserves the lynch quite yet.

No ellipsis, and the word "deserves" is meant to suggest I don't think there's sufficient evidence to make that lynch call. In other news, I share Spacedaisy's confusion as to why you think lynching Simon will clue us in to Glorf.

Linki w/Epi: See MM's discussion of your post "Weakest Day 1 I've ever seen. Get your heads out of your underwear." In summary, you played a not insignificant role in Day 1, and instead of owning your mistake you assigned generalized blame to the rest of the playerbase. And ok, "astounding" is probably a bit rhetorical of a flourish, but your own rhetorical turn of disowning the Zebra lynch seems clear-cut to me.

Also, RIP Dalton Steelers are all FEBs, every last one of them.

[Tangrowth]

Night 2 has ended.

[Tangrowth]

Night 2

The Burrowing Snagret tormented the helpless creatures once more! This time it managed to take the life of Sorsha! The group began to mourn her death... only for the snake-bird hybrid to attack once more! Thankfully, ????? survived the evil creature's relentless attack.

Meanwhile, the protagonists ventured into caves, eager to find treasure. Fortunately, they were successful, and not a single pikmin fell victim to enemies lurking in the caverns.

Despite some good fortune, this was the first time the group had lost one of their own at Night. A sense of urgency grew among the explorers. They knew they had to find and destroy these bosses... and quickly.


Night 2 has ended.

Sorsha has been killed by Burrowing Snagret.
????? has survived a kill attempt by Burrowing Snagret.

It is now Day 3. You have 24 hours to lynch a boss!

[Sorsha]

RIP me

[Epignosis]

Burrowing Dingaling tried to kill a Sorsha Pikmin and a Rock Pikmin. That's how I read it.

[Marmot]

By the way, I almost never see coaching in BTSC.

What about in these circumstances? You've made it clear that Simon has never been mafia before. If he is bad, then I believe he would be receiving some assistance.

Linki: well bye Sorsha.

[Epignosis]

By the way, I almost never see coaching in BTSC.

What about in these circumstances? You've made it clear that Simon has never been mafia before. If he is bad, then I believe he would be receiving some assistance.

Linki: well bye Sorsha.

In these circumstances, I don't agree with you.

[Marmot]

By the way, I almost never see coaching in BTSC.

What about in these circumstances? You've made it clear that Simon has never been mafia before. If he is bad, then I believe he would be receiving some assistance.

Linki: well bye Sorsha.

In these circumstances, I don't agree with you.

I don't agree with me either.

[Epignosis]

I only recommend a Simon lynch at this point if you all interpret his "I think so" to mean "I don't remember who is on my team."

For my part, I'm going to start sniffing elsewhere. Someone tried to kill two of us and only nabbed one. I recommend we look at that beautiful Day 0 poll again.

[Epignosis]

DAY 0

Which is the cutest Pikmin?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:24:34 pm


Red
1
Metalmarsh89 (4) 5%

Blue
4
Typhoony (5), Enrique (8), kneel4justice (9), Boomslang (11) 20%

Yellow
5
a2thezebra (6), Sorsha (7), Glorfindel (17), FZ. (19), Simon (20) 25%

Rock
2
Epignosis (2), Dragon D. Luffy (10) 10%

Winged
2
sig (14), Matt (15) 10%

Purple
2
Spacedaisy (16), agleaminranks (18) 10%

White
2
DrWilgy (12), Scotty (13) 10%

Why isn't there Green? (host, deadies, non-players)
2
MovingPictures07 (1), S~V~S (3) 10%

Total votes : 20

[Epignosis]

Since a2z wasn't yellow and sig wasn't winged, I'm started to distrust my conclusion regarding DDL.

[Epignosis]

*starting

[Marmot]

Since a2z wasn't yellow and sig wasn't winged, I'm started to distrust my conclusion regarding DDL.

This doesn't apply to everyone.

[Marmot]

Matt.

How are you doing today?

[Boomslang]

I only recommend a Simon lynch at this point if you all interpret his "I think so" to mean "I don't remember who is on my team."

For my part, I'm going to start sniffing elsewhere. Someone tried to kill two of us and only nabbed one. I recommend we look at that beautiful Day 0 poll again.

What exactly do you hope to gain from the Day 0 poll? I doubt anyone listed his or her favorite Pikmin as the one he or she actually was. Which, now that I think about it, would suggest neither you nor Luffy were Rock Pikmin, and thus slightly more likely to be bosses because we're pretty sure a Rock was targeted last night.

[Enrique]

I only recommend a Simon lynch at this point if you all interpret his "I think so" to mean "I don't remember who is on my team."

For my part, I'm going to start sniffing elsewhere. Someone tried to kill two of us and only nabbed one. I recommend we look at that beautiful Day 0 poll again.

What exactly do you hope to gain from the Day 0 poll? I doubt anyone listed his or her favorite Pikmin as the one he or she actually was. Which, now that I think about it, would suggest neither you nor Luffy were Rock Pikmin, and thus slightly more likely to be bosses because we're pretty sure a Rock was targeted last night.

[Epignosis]

I only recommend a Simon lynch at this point if you all interpret his "I think so" to mean "I don't remember who is on my team."

For my part, I'm going to start sniffing elsewhere. Someone tried to kill two of us and only nabbed one. I recommend we look at that beautiful Day 0 poll again.

What exactly do you hope to gain from the Day 0 poll? I doubt anyone listed his or her favorite Pikmin as the one he or she actually was. Which, now that I think about it, would suggest neither you nor Luffy were Rock Pikmin, and thus slightly more likely to be bosses because we're pretty sure a Rock was targeted last night.

Indeed.

[Boomslang]

What? Epi, you just said you believed a Rock Pikmin to have been targeted last night. Or are you reacting to something else? I'm honestly confused.

[Epignosis]

What? Epi, you just said you believed a Rock Pikmin to have been targeted last night. Or are you reacting to something else? I'm honestly confused.

Honestly confused?

Is there a time when you are falsely confused?

[Boomslang]

What? Epi, you just said you believed a Rock Pikmin to have been targeted last night. Or are you reacting to something else? I'm honestly confused.

Honestly confused?

Is there a time when you are falsely confused?

Quit dodging questions, which seems to be a pattern for you (cf. earlier refusal to answer "are you Mafia" and "are you a boss"). What about my previous post strikes you as worthy?

[Epignosis]

What? Epi, you just said you believed a Rock Pikmin to have been targeted last night. Or are you reacting to something else? I'm honestly confused.

Honestly confused?

Is there a time when you are falsely confused?

Quit dodging questions, which seems to be a pattern for you (cf. earlier refusal to answer "are you Mafia" and "are you a boss"). What about my previous post strikes you as worthy?

Quit dodging questions? Did I dodge the questions or did I answer them? I'd like an answer to that, and if you think I dodged them, HOW did I dodge them?

You dodged my question. If there are a time when you are falsely confused?

[Epignosis]

*If there was a time when you were falsely confused

[Epignosis]

I just learned that, in addition to my troubles, I require a new keyboard.

[Boomslang]

What? Epi, you just said you believed a Rock Pikmin to have been targeted last night. Or are you reacting to something else? I'm honestly confused.

Honestly confused?

Is there a time when you are falsely confused?

Quit dodging questions, which seems to be a pattern for you (cf. earlier refusal to answer "are you Mafia" and "are you a boss"). What about my previous post strikes you as worthy?

Quit dodging questions? Did I dodge the questions or did I answer them? I'd like an answer to that, and if you think I dodged them, HOW did I dodge them?

You dodged my question. If there are a time when you are falsely confused?

This is clearly not a productive interchange. Are there times when I am falsely confused? Sure, feigning ignorance is something I do on occasion for effect. But not at this juncture.

Previously, you dodge the question of "Are you Mafia?" by reframing it in the terms of the game (bosses). You dodged the question of "are you a boss" by posting a picture of what appears to be a 19th century political boss.

Most recently, you dodged the question that follows: "What about my post regarding the Day 0 poll struck you as suspicious?"
Answer that, and we're getting somewhere.

[Scotty]

Well that sucks. I'm sorry you were the Dragnet's breakfast, Sorsha.

It's almost time for me to look at voting patterns to get a better read on several people. Just gonna pick 3 people. Still a tad early to draw worthwhile conclusions, but whatever. I'll make pizza out of waffles.

1) Typhoony.
Day 1: votes zebra toward the end of phase
Reason: She looked like she was getting the most votes so...bye, felicia!

Day 2: vows to be more informed, was pinged by me (but doesn't push it), and votes sig.
Reason: thinks it's a bad idea to siphon the votes out. Doesn't buy sig's claim that he intentionally dug his own grave.

I'm saving my vote to create the biggest distance possible between Simon and Sig. I'd very much prefer a Sig lynch fwiw, but a close lynch is a useless lynch in this game imo.

He again pushes the idea that more votes need to be stacked on one player. He votes for sig when he has 6 votes- a margin of 3 with Simon- no mention of Simon before this.

Now he has doubted the validity of Epi's suspicion of Simon because he would have to trust Epi. This makes him uncomfortable.

The guy has latched onto the big trains in the first few votes here. His reads have been minimal (he still has less than 20 posts) and so far his reads have been wrong.

My read: He is playing a blendy game so far, and I don't like his reads/voting thus far. I've got my eye on him.


2) MetalMarsh
Day 1: votes zebra, then changes to DDL
Reason: picks zebra because...uhm...because. Votes DDL as a NO U for voting him, I guess? He has about as much reason behind his votes on this day 1 as Santa would have substituting for the tooth fairy.

Day 2: Asks people questions:

I'm still catching up myself as well.

Are you a member of mafia Matt?

Epignosis, are you a member of mafia?

Are you on sig's team Scotty?

Votes Epignosis, and follows it up with a wall o text outlining Epi's apparent distancing, finding it odd that he voted for Simon while simultaneously saying he won't get lynched day 1.

My read: His read on Epi is backed up and he has stepped up his sniffing the past day, I feel. I'm leaning civ on him right now. But it is MM...I'm not yet at the point where, if we were on a date and I left to go to the bathroom, I would trust that he wouldn't casually slip rat poison in my whiskey ginger.


3) SpaceDaisy

Day 1: Votes Enrique
Reason:

I voted Enrique when he came and put a random vote on Glorfindel who I would like to see get a chance to enjoy a good game, so I didn't want him to be a random lynch victim on Day 1.

Day 2: Votes Simon
Reason:

Because I think Epi is civ who truly believes his son is bad. And I think there is some merit to his reasoning. And I also have mild suspicion of sig, so either way I think we might learn something.

She ties up the vote between Simon and sig.

My read: She's very good at summarizing why she votes the way she votes and her reasoning behind it has logic. She rattles off Soneji, Typhoony, and Matt as her day 1 mafia reads, but gets on a high horse when people are looking to vote out Glorf. Now that we have advanced a few days, I'm wondering if she is going to lean Simon again or set her sights on either Matt or Enrique, the former of whom she is peeved at currently for getting on her case of being buddies with Glor.
I have a neutral read on her right now, maybe a slight civ. I tend to agree with her opinions so far this game, but think she is putting too many eggs in the Epi basket. Does she still trust him as much as she did on Day 2?


In other news, when kneel4justice comes out of his slumber, I'm wondering if he has any new thoughts on the happenings of the last 24 hours.

[Marmot]

Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

[kneel4justice]

RIP Sorsha.

Sorry for not being active throughout these last 24 hours, Scotty.
I just tried to catch up - noticed I had missed your response to my vote. To clarify, your explanation for voting Simon over Epi did not put me at ease, because I feel Simon is the much easier option. If you had actually trusted Epi, that would be another thing. However, you voted for Simon (partially) because of Epi's sureness, meanwhile you thought he could be scum. I do not follow that logic.
Also, your comments about tunneling do you no good in my book. It is like when people tell me I am not giving them a chance, when I am. If you give me things that make me feel better, then I will feel better, but if you give me things that I find suspicious, I will continue to be suspicious. And last day phase your vote for Simon was only adding onto my previous D1 suspicion, as I have explained.

As for comments on the new things...
Would like to hear from Matt about his suspicion of Glorfindel because I have no idea what he is talking about. I thought it was odd, but he's promised to prepare a case, so we will see. I do think his questioning of Spacedaisy was odd, like are we not supposed to wonder about a baseless suspicion?
Spacedaisy's posts have come across rather genuine to me. Trying to get to the bottom of things by asking questions. She also doesn't seem to back down in her actions (like when she voted for Simon).
I feel like people are not giving Simon any credit at all for thinking that he would slip up like that when asked about Sig being on the same team (originally I did read it like, he thought sig was good, but then his response seemed like not) but seriously, I feel like the suspicion of him implies he does not understand the concept of the game. And he's played before, so, I'm sure he would know not to admit to having teammates. Yes the word choice could have been better, but again he is younger.

Will go see if there is anything else that I missed.

[kneel4justice]

Well that sucks. I'm sorry you were the Dragnet's breakfast, Sorsha.

It's almost time for me to look at voting patterns to get a better read on several people. Just gonna pick 3 people. Still a tad early to draw worthwhile conclusions, but whatever. I'll make pizza out of waffles.

1) Typhoony.
Day 1: votes zebra toward the end of phase
Reason: She looked like she was getting the most votes so...bye, felicia!

Day 2: vows to be more informed, was pinged by me (but doesn't push it), and votes sig.
Reason: thinks it's a bad idea to siphon the votes out. Doesn't buy sig's claim that he intentionally dug his own grave.

I'm saving my vote to create the biggest distance possible between Simon and Sig. I'd very much prefer a Sig lynch fwiw, but a close lynch is a useless lynch in this game imo.

He again pushes the idea that more votes need to be stacked on one player. He votes for sig when he has 6 votes- a margin of 3 with Simon- no mention of Simon before this.

Now he has doubted the validity of Epi's suspicion of Simon because he would have to trust Epi. This makes him uncomfortable.

The guy has latched onto the big trains in the first few votes here. His reads have been minimal (he still has less than 20 posts) and so far his reads have been wrong.

My read: He is playing a blendy game so far, and I don't like his reads/voting thus far. I've got my eye on him.

Typhoony's votes are definitely pinging me. I understand wanting to make sure that votes are set up in a way where manipulation will less likely to come into effect, however it feels like this has taken priority over actual suspicions and I don't like that. Granted he was suspicious of Sig, but I do think the votes have been following the majority wave a bit too much/conveniently. Also it is strange how he felt your (Scotty's) vote for Sig D1 was weird, but still voted for Sig...despite being suspicious of you. Being suspicious of some of the Sig voters (such as you) is one reason I could not get behind the suspicion

[Spacedaisy]

Scotty, regarding what you have to say about me:

1. I was simply throwing out a random three name guess, no real suspicion of those three, thus the reason I wasn't voting them. I was being silly, seeing how close to right I might be once the game is done and we know who the baddies are.

2. I will say this one last time. I reacted the way I did to the Glorfindel votes because he nearly quit the site the first game he played because of difficult interactions. I wanted his next attempt to be more enjoyable for him so I hated to see him get lynched right off the bat for no freaking reason.

3. The reason I trust Epi is because I remember him saying a long time ago in an off topic thread how honest Simon is. And a stickler for following the rules. And I believe Epi knows his son well enough to catch little things the rest of us would be inclined to ignore because we would write it off as. Oh he's only 8, oh he was just confused, etc. I grilled Epi on it because I wanted to gauge just how strongly he felt about it, because I don't relish voting for an 8 year old, especially one as awesome as Simon. If Epi were to tell me right now he isn't as sure, I'd be willing to back off another vote of Simon.

3. I'm not peeved at Matt for being on my case about being buddies with Glorfindel. I'm not peeved at him for anything. I'm frustrated with him for making a declaration of someone's guilt as though it were obvious information with no real explanation. Clearly I'm not the only one who is missing the connection either. It has nothing to do with it being Glorfindel. If it were you I would be having the same reaction.

4. Regarding Matt, I am feeling very bad about him currently. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy he is one of my all time favorites, for real. But the fact that he declared someone bad, then when asked to explain why he refused to give an explanation saying everyone ignores his cases anyway (though in fairness he said he would later) then said the people who were questioning him on why he came to that conclusion are bad. I really I look forward to his explanation because it may be what helps me decide what I think about his alignment. Either I'm going to see and understand his logic, or I just don't know...

5. Regarding Enrique: I don't have any suspicion of Enrique beyond a day one vote. I didn't like his day 1 vote so I voted to show how I felt about it. That's about it. I can't say anything he has done since then has been particularly shady seeming to me, I don't foresee voting him today unless something drastic happens.

Linki @k4j: I agree with all your thoughts but one. I did not vote Simon because I think he has a lack of understanding. I think what Epi was saying is he knows his son, and knows he has a hard time lying because he takes things and speaks literally so he seemed to be saying he thinks Simon's wording indicated his confusion was due to that side of him, which would seem to say he was likely bad. I don't think Simon's grasp of the game is in question, he's a sharp kid.

[kneel4justice]

Can you please explain the reasoning there?

Yes. 2+2=4 therefore since sig is civ, and if Simon is bad, then Glorfindel needs to go.

But I'm also cool with skipping straight to lynching Glorfindel if everyone else is up for it.

Also, Enrique, what do you think of Boomslang's "I'm not down for lynching Simon...yet" Ha!

I didn't ask you to repeat yourself I asked you to explain it. I am willing to listen to any case, and if there is some logic there I might be swayed, but simply saying if this person is bad and this person is civ then this other person must be bad. I need to understand what you used to draw these conclusions. Because Glorfindel did not vote Simon?

Been there done that. I make up huge cases, they subsequently get ignored.

Spacedaisy, is there a reason you do not want to lynch Glorfindel? I'm beginning to think your readiness to lynch an 8 year old yet your continuing momma bearing of Glorfindel is suspish.

Oh, I forgot that Glorfindel was the player that Daisy did not want to be randomly lynched D1. So this comment makes a bit more sense taking into account that. Still, don't find Daisy suspicious. Why openly defend a teammate like that? Perhaps if the numbers were actually looking bad for Glorfindel. But still, asking to hear your thoughts on this connection to Simon is not suspicious to me, because it seems a very random thought.

[Spacedaisy]

I was doing my best MP impression for that last post.

[Scotty]

Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

??? Are you playing tennis with a cricket bat?

I was doing my best MP impression for that last post.

Not enough rainbow

RIP Sorsha.

Sorry for not being active throughout these last 24 hours, Scotty.
I just tried to catch up - noticed I had missed your response to my vote. To clarify, your explanation for voting Simon over Epi did not put me at ease, because I feel Simon is the much easier option. If you had actually trusted Epi, that would be another thing. However, you voted for Simon (partially) because of Epi's sureness, meanwhile you thought he could be scum. I do not follow that logic.
Also, your comments about tunneling do you no good in my book. It is like when people tell me I am not giving them a chance, when I am. If you give me things that make me feel better, then I will feel better, but if you give me things that I find suspicious, I will continue to be suspicious. And last day phase your vote for Simon was only adding onto my previous D1 suspicion, as I have explained.

I agree that Simon was the easier option- but easier doesn't always = wrong. I do continue to find myself swaying in the Trusting Tree (tm) in regards to Epi's innocence. I don't trust the guy- it would be unwise to do so to anyone in the game right now- but it doesn't mean I don't see his logic and am willing to run with it. If Epi is wrong, then he will have been wrong about 2 people, and I would be more willing to vote him. To make such a brash statement as his son is bad early game, I expect a result.

Sorry I'm a tunneler. I've been to an AA meeting, but no tunneler one as of yet.
I'd give you things to make you feel better, but I don't know your symptoms. You just reminded me to take my Multivitamin today! Thanks man!

As it stands right now, our logic isn't synching. And I dunno if it will. But I'm willing to work to get there if possible.

[Glorfindel]

My observations:

Spacedaisy: I'm not going to lie - irrespective of who she votes for, I consider her one of the most transparently 'Towny' players in this game right now. Admittedly, my judgement could be coloured by the fact that she seems to me to be a genuinely lovely person but if I'm wrong for holding such a view, so be it. Vote for me Spacesdaisy, don't vote for me - my opinion of you won't change - although I believe that you are smart enough to know the truth and not have your opinion distorted by deliberate untruths and half-truths.

Typhoony: I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and say that to me, this guy is NOT leaning Mafia. I'll admit that some of his posts have seemed a little 'flaky' but from his tone, I'm not reading any kind of malice.

Matt: Matt confuses me a lot. I thought he seemed really nice and rational but now he claims to have some conclusive case that proves my guilt (which as I've said before simply cannot have any basis in fact) and I feel like there's something to his constant, repetitive claims of being a Pikmin that I should be picking up but I'm not getting it. Thinking it over, I'm not remotely certain that he is Mafia but his behaviour this game just seems a little peculiar.

More to follow later...

[Matt]

This game is a hoot! Whatever the result, Epi goin' after Simon is a special Christmas Mafia memory to remember.

As for Glorfindel, I'm mostly goin' after him for the funsies. But in a jiffy here's my "case"...Early in the game Glorfindel specifically gave Simon a big hug and said "glad to play with you again!". Then when Epi started getting on Simon's case, I remembered that post from Glorfindel. Then sig starts getting attention for whatever god awful reason you people came up with, and Glorfindel goes after sig. sig, who btw is the only player who has any kind of meta on Glorfindel, states he believes Glorfindel to be bad as well. Therefore if sig is good and Simon is bad let's lynch Glorfindel! Duh best case ever.

Anyway, I'm havin' fun sparring with Glorfindel, doesn't mean I'm bad. As Glorfindel himself notes, I'm just a cute, little, innocent Pikmin!

Anyone iso Daisy? To whom it may concern, of course Daisy protecting Glorfindel doesn't mean they're teamies. However it's possible Daisy is mafioso and happens to know Glorfindel is good, hence the "let's protect the civvie" card. Therefore suspish. Especially since she was willing to lynch Simon of all people. I dunno, doesn't add up.

Is everyone havin' a grand Pikmin time? I know I am!