Grimm's Fairy Tale Mafia - Day 13

[Perd Hapley]

1. Gobnait, a lie detector, has been gunning for you pretty much all game.
2. What are your thoughts on Carmen? Would you be willing to put a lynch vote on her tomorrow?
3. As far as I remember, you were one of the three players who voted Gobnait yesterday. Considering the lynch divert, wouldn't it be reasonable for the town to assume that you are one of the Rumpel gang, and therefore had to switch only four votes to get a majority?

1. I can't deny that, but I can't think of anything I've said that would be a lie big enough to warrant constant aggression.
2. I would put a vote on her, as I'm convinced at this point she's part of the party that set me up.
3. I made a huge case on Gobnait, and I believe it would have been a dick move not to vote for her, given the case I presented. It would have made me look 100% more suspicious if I voted for Carmen instead of going with the case I myself presented, and I'm sorry but I'm not the sort of player to do something underhanded like that.

Linki - It's cowardly to limit discussion to one day just because you're afraid Rumplestiltskin will have free run if you actually play the game and discuss things for 48 hours.

There is a difference between giving up and being clever. Being clever is using words that don't make sense, or devising a code that changes every night so it's impossible for Rumple to steal votes. Clever is not "You know what lets just shut up and vote."

To me, you just sound like an angry, caught baddie. Insulting us isn't going to change our minds. And voting Carmen again for the 9000th time is not a better alternative in my opinion.

[Operator]

Thank you for responding Queran. I am really trying to look at it with an open mind, but I am having a hard time being convinced. Sorry, I know it's not easy for you to defend since many people, including me, seem to have made up our minds about you. The case against you is just too strong.

Also, I don't think anyone can accuse the town of being afraid of old Rumpie. The fact that so many of us are talking openly at night without fear of death is testimony to that. I think this is one of the bravest townie teams I have seen.

[Saito]

But if we decide the code at night Rumpel can just use one of the words we decide on since he picks the word at night, unless you had something else in mind.

Oh, I just thought of something. Rumpel has to pick a word. What if we substitute smilie faces for some of the more common words we want to use like civvs, baddies, vote, suspicion, etc.

[Young Lady]

1. Gobnait, a lie detector, has been gunning for you pretty much all game.
2. What are your thoughts on Carmen? Would you be willing to put a lynch vote on her tomorrow?
3. As far as I remember, you were one of the three players who voted Gobnait yesterday. Considering the lynch divert, wouldn't it be reasonable for the town to assume that you are one of the Rumpel gang, and therefore had to switch only four votes to get a majority?

1. I can't deny that, but I can't think of anything I've said that would be a lie big enough to warrant constant aggression.
2. I would put a vote on her, as I'm convinced at this point she's part of the party that set me up.
3. I made a huge case on Gobnait, and I believe it would have been a dick move not to vote for her, given the case I presented. It would have made me look 100% more suspicious if I voted for Carmen instead of going with the case I myself presented, and I'm sorry but I'm not the sort of player to do something underhanded like that.

Linki - It's cowardly to limit discussion to one day just because you're afraid Rumplestiltskin will have free run if you actually play the game and discuss things for 48 hours.

There is a difference between giving up and being clever. Being clever is using words that don't make sense, or devising a code that changes every night so it's impossible for Rumple to steal votes. Clever is not "You know what lets just shut up and vote."

To me, you just sound like an angry, caught baddie. Insulting us isn't going to change our minds. And voting Carmen again for the 9000th time is not a better alternative in my opinion.

I am frustrated. But I am not bad.

Not like it matters anyway. When I am lynched by the silent majority, you guys will see the truth in that you allowed the baddies to force you into a tight, volatile space and make a stupid cowardly decision.

[Young Lady]

But if we decide the code at night Rumpel can just use one of the words we decide on since he picks the word at night, unless you had something else in mind.

Oh, I just thought of something. Rumpel has to pick a word. What if we substitute smilie faces for some of the more common words we want to use like civvs, baddies, vote, suspicion, etc.

If nobody knows the code until the very end of the night Rumple will not be able to send in a PM. If we elected a codemaster, whose responsibility it was was to post a link to the code Every night at the end of the night, we would virtually eliminate Rumple from the equation.

"Using anagrams for common words that shift every night."

"Signu granamas ofr conmom dsorw hatt shtfi verye ginth" - Night 1

"gisun anamargs rof moncom sword ahtt fitsh revey thign" - Night 2

THAT is clever.

[Gunther]

What code? I plan on making a post saying "Queran" and then maybe posting in pictures, or in French or something. If we decide tonight, there is no need for chatter.

That is the point of deciding at night, right?

[Gunther]

I want to spend the night discussing suspicions and who to lynch, not codes and electing codemasters.

[Jack Shephard]

I am open to the possibility of a code.

[Golf]

But if we decide the code at night Rumpel can just use one of the words we decide on since he picks the word at night, unless you had something else in mind.

Oh, I just thought of something. Rumpel has to pick a word. What if we substitute smilie faces for some of the more common words we want to use like civvs, baddies, vote, suspicion, etc.

If nobody knows the code until the very end of the night Rumple will not be able to send in a PM. If we elected a codemaster, whose responsibility it was was to post a link to the code Every night at the end of the night, we would virtually eliminate Rumple from the equation.

"Using anagrams for common words that shift every night."

"Signu granamas ofr conmom dsorw hatt shtfi verye ginth" - Night 1

"gisun anamargs rof moncom sword ahtt fitsh revey thign" - Night 2

THAT is clever.

What if the codemaster is on Rumpy's team though? My friends Stan and Ollie are more clever than that.

[Young Lady]

The point of the codemaster is that

A) We elect someone we trust

B) If we elect someone on rump's team, they'd be outing themselves if the code is compromised.

@ Anchorete - Lol.

[Jack Shephard]

I want to spend the night discussing suspicions and who to lynch, not codes and electing codemasters.

No need for a codemaster. As long as the code is acceptable it's fine. It might be a hindrance to posting and understanding though. But needs must as they say.

[Saito]

I was thinking of all days when I suggested smilies for common words since they would not have to be changed every night. But if we continue this method it could work as well.

[Jack Shephard]

The point of the codemaster is that

A) We elect someone we trust

B) If we elect someone on rump's team, they'd be outing themselves if the code is compromised.

@ Anchorete - Lol.

We don't trust anyone do we? Don't understand a need for any codemaster.

[Young Lady]

If you're going to ask me to try and continue to contribute, Don't dismiss everything I contribute.

See you guys when the night post comes up.

[Operator]

Queran, I think there are two different issues, and in an attempt to divert attention from one, it seems to me you are giving too much importance to the other.

Issue 1. We think you are on team Rumpie. I, for one, and I think a few others too, are well near convinced that this is so.
Issue 2. How do we get around Rumple's superpower?

Talking of this latter, there are dozens of ways of continuing to chat in the thread, many of which were brought up on day one. Speaking in anagrams, using google translate, using smiley faces, so on and so forth. I am sure, if there's really a need for a townie to post during the day tomorrow, they can and will find a way. Let's not worry too much about that, it's trivial, and doesn't need much in terms of cleverness to find out a way.

The real point, though, talk or no talk, is you will most likely get the most lynch votes tomorrow. If we talk like we have been talking in the past, the votes will be moved over, and another townie will bite the dust.

[Ned Flanders]

I think we've tried it Rumpy's way, now we need to try it our way for a few days. By our way, I mean silent days.

[Jack Shephard]

Hang on. We were set on a plan and now we are being persuaded by the very person to be lynched to change that.

I think we should take a vote. Code or silence. Just post which and we'll make a count.

[Young Lady]

I vote for silent days.

[Jack Shephard]

I vote for silent days.

What???

[Young Lady]

I vote for silent days.

[Jack Shephard]

I vote for silent days.

Yeah...it wasn't a I-didn't-hear-you what.

[Young Lady]

If "silent days" is what it takes for you guys to see how incredibly idiotic this plan is, sure lets do it.

[Golf]

Queran, you were complaining about not having enough time to defend yourself, and now you are spending all your time dreaming up elaborate (and in my view unworkable) code systems and election procedures for a codemaster instead of using that time to defend yourself, which is what you claimed you wanted. It looks to me like you are just trying to be distracting and confusing, which is a classic baddie tactic. I have seen it employed to great effect by my very clever friends Bud and Lou.

linki: I vote for silence

[Ned Flanders]

I vote silent days.

[Young Lady]

Queran, you were complaining about not having enough time to defend yourself, and now you are spending all your time dreaming up elaborate (and in my view unworkable) code systems and election procedures for a codemaster instead of using that time to defend yourself, which is what you claimed you wanted. It looks to me like you are just trying to be distracting and confusing, which is a classic baddie tactic. I have seen it employed to great effect by my very clever friends Bud and Lou.

linki: I vote for silence

I gave a hypothetical alternative to "shut up and vote".

I also addressed the points Shand wanted me to address.

[Saito]

I vote for silence. And like I said, if I'm not here for night end know that i will go with the majority (which I hope is everyone except maybe Rumples team) on the vote.

[Jack Shephard]

I vote silent days also

[Operator]

Hang on. We were set on a plan and now we are being persuaded by the very person to be lynched to change that.

I think we should take a vote. Code or silence. Just post which and we'll make a count.

I prefer silence as much as possible. If we do feel the need to communicate, we can do so in any number of random ways. I think this is better than pre-deciding on the code. You could spell all words backwards, miss the first or last letter or each word, skip all vowels, swap the first and second letters of each word, basically misspell every word. Or simply pick a random language and use google translate. Re-translating in English would be easy since google auto-detects languages. Sure we may lose out on nuances, and it will be a tad inconvenient, but honestly I don't see what there is to talk about. Considering all our suspicions about Queran, and his responses today, is there anything left to discuss?

[Gunther]

I think a cod is just a way to trick us into talking, and wasting the night talking about the codebrather than about the lynch.

I want silence.

[Young Lady]

No Shand I don't think there is anything at all left to discuss. We should probably not even post for the rest of tonight, really.

I mean sure the whole point of the game is to post and talk and discuss suspects, and I mean, sure Roxy and Bea have been working super hard on the game and basically killing discussion for 48 whole hours is sort of defeating the point of the game and throwing it in the hosts faces, but, you know, Rumplestiltskin!

[Young Lady]

"Defend yourself Queran! But also we've all already pretty much decided we're going to bandwagon you without saying a word."

[Phoebe Buffay]

I wanted to pull some of Gobnait's quotes regarding Queran to illustrate why I think Queran is a good lynch option for catching a big bad baddie or wicked one.

Original quote here.

...snip to save space...

Now hooooooooooooold up! You, Queran Gloomsould, Dweller in the Deep, Sunderer of Ships, Weaver of Lies, are, well, lying! I never questioned the fact that Bronwyn (may her gypsy feet ever dance on soft grass) asked Caillic about his vote! That she certainly did, as you astutely pointed out in quoting her. What I said was that Bronwyn stated that she believed Ameerah to be bad, or at least highly suspicious. The bit of the quote (which in my original post was in a larger paragraph) is here:

I also noticed s/he did not respond to the vote placed for her earlier, giving us her side of the story. In gypsy land the innocent always defend themselves. As a member of the Table of Peace I look toward Caillic Lustroushair for a vote, unless the votes come in for me or do not come in before i have to vote from the two missing Table of Happiness voters.

The bolded is where she says it, and the bit after the bolded is where she says she'll vote Caillic anyway, despite the fact that she thinks he voted for someone she's suspicious of. Civvie behavior? I think not!

The fact that you pulled the wrong quotes in your defense so that you could misinterpret my argument makes me only more certain of your evil, and more certain that my argument was right. Bronwyn's unhesitating agreement with you, despite her knowing what she said, makes me nearly certain she is evil too.

Even disregarding the style of your posts (which I'm willing to throw out. As I admitted in my original case, it doesn't mean a thing by itself, and Shand makes a good point about why it should be disregarded), I believe we have found 2 baddies in you and Bronwyn. You, Dweller of Deep Waters, Tentacular Spinner of Lies, shall receive my vote today.

The first quote I pulled is one where twice Gobnait refers to Queran as a liar. The first time in the post it appears as if he's referring to how Queran twisted words of others, but if he had checked Queran by this point (Night 1) then this may have been a way for him to try to point out that he knows Queran lied.

Another post worth highlighting:

Wait, aren't you Carmen? Are we doing third person all of a sudden?

11.

Linki - WIFOM always gets on my nerves, not because of those who use it, but just in general the sort of infinite possibilities of bluffs, double bluffs, tripple bluffs etc ad nauseum. As it stands I have 3-4 really locked in suspects, and those would be in no particular order Mainchin, Carmen, Finnian, and Gobnait

Still 11.

Yeah Carmen can't be the word, it's a proper name.

And I was feeling really good about our candidates until this post. I'm certainly a civ, and I have been reading Mainchin as very civ as well. This worries me that neither Carmen or Finnian is on Queran's (evil) team. That doesn't stop them from being SKs or on the other team though, so I guess it's ok.

All things considered, I'm still ok with choosing either of them, but could we please save a bunch of time and just lynch Queran? Are people really still reading our ongoing debate as civ-civ? I just don't see how it's possible, we've been at each other's throats now for going on 3 days. No one else sees his posts as un-genuine?

3

Original quote for reference here

...also snipped to save space...

That's my case. I think his Day 2 posts are the most useful of what I have, besides his voting record. I guess you'll have to decide for yourselves who is telling the truth. If you want me to respond to anything let me know.

It seems Queran wants to win this little battle between us. If he does, at least please lynch him after me. I would be really depressed if he went for so long being so obviously evil and won.

These three quotes alone are enough to make me feel pretty certain that Gobnait checked Queran at some point (I think possibly as early as Night 1) and found that Queran lied.

Gobnait also maintained a suspicion of Carmen off and on during the game--he may have checked her too which is why he felt comfortable voting for her in place of Queran when few wanted to follow his Queran case.

[Operator]

That's brilliant Ameerah. That removes the last shred of doubt!

[Young Lady]

That first quote, I was actually telling the truth, Gobnait did misread.

[Young Lady]

Wait why am I still talking you've all decided to lynch me anyway.

[Phoebe Buffay]

That first quote, I was actually telling the truth, Gobnait did misread.

Right, which is why I also mentioned this might have been his way of trying to build a case against you based on thread evidence, but also try to get his info (if he had any by that point) into the thread.

[Young Lady]

[Ned Flanders]

I am not in favor of an utterly silent Day period. Is there no middle ground between complete silence and the explosive verbosity we have witnessed?

Can you say why you're not in favor of this, or did I miss it?

[NurseWilgy]

Honestly, I'm fine with discussion now and silence during the day. I think it's the only surefire way to make sure Rumpy doesn't manipulate any more lynches on us. And considering he's already manipulated at least half of them so far, I think we could consider this being a taste of his own medicine. I'm fine with voting Queran as well. I was on the fence about him, but his discussion from tonight as well as what Ameerah just quoted pretty much seals it for me. I still think Carmen is bad as well, and I disagree on her being an unlynchable role. I think more than likely, she has a limited number of protections (either from her role, prizes, or a combination) or she requires another role to die before she becomes vulnerable. So I think a few people should pin some votes on Carmen in case something goes wonky with Queran. That way I think we can assure that a baddie will get lynched next time.

Linki: I missed that quote from Rhinfrew. I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation as to why you disagree with the current plan.

[Young Lady]

I have a question for everyone:

How much wood do you all think a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Follow up question:

Do these jeans make my tentacles look fat?

Follow up question:

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise?

Follow up question:

Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

Follow up question: Where's Waldo?

Follow up question: When this whole "lets cut out 90% of discussion and just lynch whoever." strategy blows up in your faces, who will you blame? The people that came up with the strategy? Or the sheep that followed it.

Follow up question: If you're not going to take me seriously why should I?

[Operator]

I see Gobnait is checking the thread. I hope he's pleased to see his death hasn't been in vain.n Hats off to you, good sir. I admire how calm and rational you were this whole time when lesser players like me would most likely have lost it.

[NurseWilgy]

I have a question for everyone:

How much wood do you all think a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Follow up question:

Do these jeans make my tentacles look fat?

Follow up question:

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise?

Follow up question:

Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

Follow up question: Where's Waldo?

Follow up question: When this whole "lets cut out 90% of discussion and just lynch whoever." strategy blows up in your faces, who will you blame? The people that came up with the strategy? Or the sheep that followed it.

Follow up question: If you're not going to take me seriously why should I?

If it's really frustrating you that much, I would step away for a bit to calm down. It's just a game dude.

[Quokka]

I vote for silent day.

[Young Lady]

I have a question for everyone:

How much wood do you all think a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Follow up question:

Do these jeans make my tentacles look fat?

Follow up question:

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise?

Follow up question:

Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

Follow up question: Where's Waldo?

Follow up question: When this whole "lets cut out 90% of discussion and just lynch whoever." strategy blows up in your faces, who will you blame? The people that came up with the strategy? Or the sheep that followed it.

Follow up question: If you're not going to take me seriously why should I?

If it's really frustrating you that much, I would step away for a bit to calm down. It's just a game dude.

If you think I'm frustrated, you know nothing John snuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

[Young Lady]

Well, I mean, I am frustrated that nobody seems to want to hear the defense they demand I bring forth, but What can I really do about it?

You have all decided to
A) Lynch me no matter what.
B) Cut out 90% of the game.

So anything I bring forth is "oh you're just saying that because your bad." and anything I don't bring forth is "why aren't you saying anything????".

So really, the only thing left is to sit back and let the civs amongst you fall right into the trap that the baddies have set. Lynch me, and lose a civvie without so much as an iota of effort from Rumples team. I honestly don't want to participate seriously at this point. Participating non-seriously is the next best thing.

[Jack Shephard]

I count six actual votes (not including comments and Queran, just I vote for....)

Silence = 6
Code = 0

[Young Lady]

Why does my vote not count?

[Jack Shephard]

Why does my vote not count?

I didn't take it seriously but I can add it if you want:

Silence 7
Code 0

[Young Lady]

Why aren't you taking me seriously?

[Gunther]

Didn't you just say you were participating non seriously?