Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[DharmaHelper]

I just noticed MM hasn't posted this phase apart from this single thing:

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

Does this OT Bengals lamentation qualify as evidence that he can't be silenced? I don't know what's typical on The Syndicate. Do silenced players tend to post in OT? I don't remember seeing it.

I've never seen silenced players allowed to post in any capacity OT or otherwise.

[Ricochet]

Have the following players posted at all toDay: b24, Draco, bloopers, sig, Spacedaisy, Tranq? Didn't even have time to update my spreadsheets.

[Boomslang]

Boomslang, I find it unlikely that there are two curse roles in a game where there were up to 60 roles (and I'm assuming, role powers) originally but was cut to 30. No doubt our hosts have all kinds of cool shit planned for this game, so why would they keep two roles, one that curses in smilies and the other that curses in questions? Overkill for a champions game, I think.

As for positions, I dunno. I didn't play Recruitment and my role has nothing to do with positions, but I suppose it's possible given Zebra's flip.

Why are so many against looking at Draconus?

juliets, were you faking your confusion earlier or was it legit?

Important distinction: I'm not against looking at Draconus, I'm against the idea that he was faking the curse. Of course, with Draco having not posted today, there's not much more to go on than there was end of Day 1. Still looking for an answer to my question, Drac.

[DrWilgy]

Re timmer, gut/meta in the face of very little evidence. But you make good points, HB, about the World Reborn, and I had forgotten anything about engaging with him on day zero.
Re Doc, your iso is remarkably bare, even taking into account the DrWilgy stylistic flourish.

Gotcha, I don't really know why that puts me low on your list though (ISO-ing on mobile is hard, just adding pink text to quotes is a nightmare). What are your thoughts on Sig? He's in the same maroon that I am, and you've also never mentioned him outside a quote here and there.

[Marmot]

I just noticed MM hasn't posted this phase apart from this single thing:

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

Does this OT Bengals lamentation qualify as evidence that he can't be silenced? I don't know what's typical on The Syndicate. Do silenced players tend to post in OT? I don't remember seeing it.

I've never seen silenced players allowed to post in any capacity OT or otherwise.

Au contraire.

In Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia, I cursed SVS to make a minimum of 10 posts using the smiley in it (or something to that effect). She was silenced the same night. So llama comrpomised, and said SVS could post, but only in OT green with said smiley involved.

And no, I'm not silenced, just busy. And disheartened.

[Marmot]

Also, JaggedJimmyJay.

[sig]

Well I see I have five votes, I'll need to catch up on the thread and see why this is,but from my skimming early today it seems they are voting for me based around a connection with zebra? If this is the reason then it is silly that anyone who knows my scum game would think i'd so obviously buddy up to a fellow mafia member. When I usually have little to no interaction with them.

[RadicalFuzz]

I've been strong town reads on all the recent rainbow lists. Is there anyone that doesn't hold the opinion that I'm town? Because if so, I want to talk about it. If you, the person who thinks I'm not town, sees that I'm high on rainbow lists and says nothing then you're letting an opportunity slip away.

Mac I see that you're creating a league of SupaHotHeroes. Can I join?

Wilgy talk about me more. I require lots of attention. I'm evolving into a Tomodachi. Will you bury me after you neglect me and I die a slow, painful death?

Sig, I have an issue with your statement.

Well I see I have five votes, I'll need to catch up on the thread and see why this is,but from my skimming early today it seems they are voting for me based around a connection with zebra? If this is the reason then it is silly that anyone who knows my scum game would think i'd so obviously buddy up to a fellow mafia member. When I usually have little to no interaction with them.

You believe you're being lynched because you buddied Zebra, correct? And your defense is, essentially, "that's not how I play as scum, anyone who's ever seen me play as scum knows I don't do that," right? You are clearly a human being, and human beings have the ability to adapt to various situations.

Anyway, time for my question. Answer it honestly, you never know who's watching. Do you expect the defense of "I would never do X as scum, but in this game I have done X so I am not scum" to prove effective?

[DharmaHelper]

I just noticed MM hasn't posted this phase apart from this single thing:

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

Does this OT Bengals lamentation qualify as evidence that he can't be silenced? I don't know what's typical on The Syndicate. Do silenced players tend to post in OT? I don't remember seeing it.

I've never seen silenced players allowed to post in any capacity OT or otherwise.

Au contraire.

In Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia, I cursed SVS to make a minimum of 10 posts using the smiley in it (or something to that effect). She was silenced the same night. So llama comrpomised, and said SVS could post, but only in OT green with said smiley involved.

And no, I'm not silenced, just busy. And disheartened.

My original statement stands. I've never seen that personally :P

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy talk about me more. I require lots of attention. I'm evolving into a Tomodachi. Will you bury me after you neglect me and I die a slow, painful death?

Idk what you want from me bro, you have a knack for looking good and I have a knack for looking bad. It's always been that way, speaking of which... ...while playing Avalon at Forte we played with some new peeps, their response to me was the exact same as always "I don't trust this dude, he's fishy" It seems that's all I ever get lately.

If you want something to think about or discuss, what do you think about my thoughts on Sig? do you think they are flawed anywhere?

[FZ.]

So zebra was mafia, that most likely means JJJ wasn't on her team. I did see the idea that she picked him, but this makes little sense for day 1. I think it is worth looking into the players who after Rico flipped made comments, like saying how they hope he isn't as spammy or it would be better to have lynched a baddie. I find the first group to almost be trying to weaken Rico's credit thus giving him less of an opinion and basically neutering him, and the second group to just be scummy.

I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.

I don't have many civ or scum reads right know, but I do think Long Con is a civilian, and I'm leaning scum on Llama. Know here is my question do you think the early snipping that Llama and Zebra did was fabricated? It was only a little bit, but I'm curious what people think of it.

I think with Zebra's lynch it also makes it less likely that Mac is on her team.

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

Engaging in my catch up and I have to say this post really rings my bells.

1. I don't think it clears JJJ from being on Zebra's team at all. Mafia target in-house with those types of roles early very often.
2. I disagree. I think its good form for Rico to dial it back now that he's done what he wanted to do. I also can't fault anyone for thinking that however unlikely it would have been, lynching a baddie D1 would trump lynching a civvie.
3. Rico would have been a very easy vote to make late, I agree.
4. Several instances of your post (the suspecting people who thought it would be better to lynch a mafia, calling out Lorab and Llama) already indicate you suspect Llama, But you don't say why. Seems like a vendetta to me.
4. How?
5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

This feels so bad. I don't agree with any of it, or at least don't think any of it are good reasons to think Sig is bad. I don't know about Sig, but DH's reasons just feel like he's trying to find a post he can use to legitimize his vote. I don't buy it.

[HamburgerBoy]

Incomplete reply, haven't read everything past this post, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get to everything.

Aside from potentially llama, who are your biggest suspects right now? I'm really glad you did a comprehensive ISO on Zebra, but as you said here, you don't seem to have found any confident ones right now, and llama seemed to be what you found as the best connection regardless.

My top suspect right now might be MM. I'm also suspicious of sig, Long Con, and llama. I also compiled a "maybe" list for more speculative possibilities: sorsha, dharmahelper, mac, and boomslang.

Prior to this post I don't see much from you wrt Long Con except you saying he's inaccurately describing the day 1/silencing/llama stuff (and you already know I agree with him there).

Did you read my llama commentary in the Zebra analysis? His was special. I specifically expanded my exploration of his content beyond just Zebra to encompass my other suspicions, and I clearly stated that in the text.

The majority involved the llama-Zebra interactions, as it should have considering Zebra interactions were what you were focusing on. However, I'm not really seeing additional input beyond the not-engaging-you-day-0 thing regardless, so my point still stands.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. llama and sig aren't my only "top suspects", they're among the four I named. How does my suspicion of those two bring you to the conclusion you're reaching -- that I'm trying not to implicate a third team mate in the hypothetical Zebra/JJJ team dynamic. More importantly, if my desire is to make it harder for townies to figure out Zebra's team mates, then the worst thing I could do is provide a substantive analysis of every player in anticipation of my own lynch. Then all of that shit I just wrote would be used against me! I have confidence in my mafia-aligned skillset, but not so much that I'd willfully feed townies reviewable data -- unless I expect to survive. This flies in the face of your assertion. If I am mafia-aligned and I expect to be lynched, I don't do that. See the Champs finale for evidence -- I was outed and I stopped posting completely.

RYM #86 is a different game, and those analyses came under different circumstances with different players who had performed differently. If there's data available to me that inspires confidence in me, then I will exude confidence. I specifically stated that Zebra did a nice job of preventing her post history from implicating anyone else in a blatant, visible way. I did find some people that I was confident were not on her team, and that counts just as much. I've at least aided process of elimination.'

The highlighted bit makes me wonder about you. What exactly are you expecting of me? A mafia-aligned role was flipped, and I provided a thorough review of every interactive dynamic in the game with that player (excluding timmer for the moment). That's not "invigorated"? Sheesh! I don't know how this can be a serious accusation. Confidence and effort are not the same thing, but this seems to be making them the same thing.

You suggested Long Con, golden, myself, bcornett, Draconus, and Epi as non-teammates, but Draconus and golden are the only ones that read as confident, and considering the curse business of the former, that one is kind of a gimme. The rest didn't seem as confident, and in past games I know you don't like caveats and less confident statements. The non-teammate call on bcornett you admitted as based on very little due to his lack of activity this game, although I tend to agree with your view on Epignosis wrt Zebra. I mean, I know you aren't so threatened as to needing to drop out of the game. My case on you is mostly based on the luck of Zebra being nightkilled night 1, which I imagine she wasn't expecting, and you basically admit as much in your frustration over the curse business. If I am right, you obviously can't give up because there are still many other people that could get lynched (looks like things are building against sig right now), but long-term that doesn't mean you'll never flip. What if you flip scum in a few days or so, and then people decide to refer back to your Zebra reads?

All of that would be OK with me had you ultimately hammered down on your suspects, but from what I can tell you hadn't really done that beyond llama. Maybe invigorated was the wrong word, but what I mean is if I tried to find who you were going to vote for today prior to this post, I wouldn't have a clue past llama and sig. That reads like opportunistic scum, no matter that you're doing your supertown Jimmy thing by posting comprehensive ISOs.

[RadicalFuzz]

Re: your thoughts on Sig I don't know. I've been watching how people respond to the accusations but don't know how I feel about them myself.

[FZ.]

Mac I broke up your long posts into the chunks that are relevant for me to comment on.

JJJ how ironic that while you were reading mine and Zebra's interactions I was reading your posts to get a better handle on your suspicion of llama. I saw your case from Day 0 and then of course I saw all your references to him being bad during your curse where you couldn't articulate reasons, but the reasons I see for you to think he is bad don't seem as strong as your assertations that he is bad. Does that make sense? Consequently, I think I've missed some of your reasoning somehow and it would be helpful to me and maybe others if you just did a quick bullet point post on why you are convinced he is bad. Thanks in advance.

Oh and I don't see anything you want me to comment on regarding your comments about mine and zebra's relationship but I will say I think you read me better than Mac and what you think might be bias is just an understanding of a particular style. If you would like me to answer any questions I am glad to do so.

How can you say that he reads you better than me when:

1. You say you play the same way as scum and as civ. So you would be unreadable.

2. I have had the opportunity to read you in one game, and correctly read you as bad?

Would a more accurate comment be that he reads you as a civilian by default whereas I seem to read you bad by default? Ergo his reading of you is generally happier days for you?

I recognise buddying in this post.

I apologize that I cannot quote the post I am answering. It would not let me embed another post within the long string of posts. This is directed at Mac re: his last post about me:

Your evidence is I don't sound sincere or genuine - that I am verbose. Zebra made accusations against me but other than that I don't know what evidence you are talking about. Is it all about my sincerity? I still maintain you just don't understand how I communicate and thats why you question my sincerity and think I'm verbose. It happens, (the sincerity part, never has anyone called me verbose it's usually just the opposite) especially with people who haven't played with me much. But, we are just going to go around and around about that and I do not have any belief that I will change your mind. You could though point me toward this other "evidence" of my baddieness.

My suspicions of you are based on reading a non genuine tone, and yes it is probably because of your robotic way of replying and yes I expect you post the same way as a civilian so I am quite possible tone reading you wrong, and the way Zebra behaved in your interactions not you. So that sucks for you.

You could change my mind. You aren't suspicious enough to me to be of immediate concern. Right now I am far more convinced that sig is bad. Help me find the big bads.

Sig is primary candidate for Zebra teammate! Let's lynch him.

Now for me to go listen to Bowie and cry.

In your first comment you indicate it's possible that JJJ reads me good by default whereas you read me bad by default and might that not be the reason I think he reads me better. I think he reads me better than you in that he recognizes my style alone does not make me bad. That's not the same thing as reading me good by default. You on the other hand seem to be willing to convict me on style alone. I do recognize however that you just saw me as bad using the same style and think you caught me out as bad because on my style. JJJ's read - that i am not necessarily bad which is the truth - naturally feels better to me, I don't deny that at all. And I don't know what about that post makes you think I'm buddying.

I will be happy to help you catch the big bads. At this point in time we agree on something which may be a first: sig is bad and unless something else happens that is compelling I will vote for him today. My personal opinion is the best way to catch the baddies is to go through their posts and do an ISO (or maybe it's that other thing you guys talk about the GT something). I had thought I was going to do one on DH because his name is coming up a lot and I'm not seeing the case. But, he's not on the poll today. I tell you what, to show my good faith in trying to help if you tell me who you would like to see done I will do them, and I don't mean just one person. I'm not as good at this as Jimmy so expect me to be a bit slower.

I think Mac might be on to something. This post doesn't feel genuine. Especially the last paragraph. The Juliets I remember is more hesitant in calling people bad, so the "sig is bad" surprised me. Something about this post rubs me the wrong way.

[sig]

Lol the people votingfor me I'll answer their points but I can't help, but find them funny and very weak. You can even tell from my few posts that I'm not playing like my scum meta, I'm playing much more like the way I did in Frisky Dingo which is the game I survived until the end in.

Howdy everyone,

Spoiler: show

Music that you should listen to while reading this post, because it's playing in my head as I write this post

Sorry about my non involvement, the game was moving too fast for me to be too involved (also my dad's birthday just passed and we were partying ). Now that I have abit more time I figured I'd do an ISO or two and here's what I got:

SIG!

I want an apology also, I'm not sure what I want it for, but by God I want one!

So I read the back and forth between Ricohet, Mac, and Zebra and honestly most of it went in one ear and out the other. I think Llama raises an interesting point about Mac, Zebra seems to be acting like Zebra. Rico seems to be posting a good amount of stuff.

What does everyone think of JJJ? He posted those voice messages, but after I raised my concern of them I don't recall anymore of his posts.

Yes Ricochet is most certainly bullshitting hard. This is not my beautiful Ricochet.

Mac has a role from the TH game, or I'm getting my old people bands mixed up? :P

Zebra (who is a girl)

Zebra (who is a girl)

I think that you think that I take myself more seriously than I actually do. Yes, I identify as a girl, no, I'm not going to antagonize anyone that doesn't agree.[/quote
I'll be the judge of that.

Well I mean she hasn't threatened to sue you, or accuse you of using improper pronouns, or kidnap you, lock you in a hole, keep you there for about 3 to 5 days, hang you from her second story house when she tells you that she is taking you upstairs to get a shower, and then after hanging you skin you to make a man suit for her to wear. (I in no way mean to be offensive so I hope nobody takes it that way, I truly doubt Zebra is a Serial Killer, BUT if she is I just want you to know Zebra I wouldn't make a very good victim at all and I'd never turn you in to the police when Llama's skinned body turns up in a river with a cocoon shoved up his throat )

So I'd say she was okay.

So... First eye catch! the post that mentions Zebra from Sig happens to have way more smileys than what I'm used to from Sig. I know he splashes maybe one smiley into a post here and there, but this just feels unnatural to Sig. His reactions to Zebra seems non-committal, kinda there just to be there. I find it odd that his concern was raised, but he doesn't remember those concerns.

I'm glad it didn't catch both your eyes though maybe it did considering your less then stellar ISO of me?

How is my reaction to Zebra non committal here? The only portion that I mentioned her in was the fluff, which was basically done in regards to Llama, Zebra( who is a girl) posts? This seems like an attempt to link me to zebra and make it seem like I'm not committing to a read when in fact I didn't make any reads about her?

It depends on my mood how many smiles I use, sometime more sometimes less. I've done posts in the past with multiply smiles. I don't see how smiles prove anything, about alignment this is reaching.

You are misreading my portion about my concern, "but after I raised my concern of them I don't recall anymore of his posts."
Them being the audio posts, his posts being JJJ. I didn't recall any posts from him or any posts addressing my audio concern after I mentioned it.

I see three reasons here that don't make any sense, this is either a civ who is reaching very far, or a mafia player trying to be involved, but not wanting to put in any real work.

Nice fluff post here, broseph. (In reference to the post quoted above)

It is a good fluff post isn't it? I'm quite proud of it one of my better jokey/fluff posts.

Right now I want to vote for SIg though, for that obvious fluff I pointed out earlier, and DH is pointing out now.

So I didn't take Dh post that serious, however know llama has also brought it up. What is wrong with some fluff day 1? I see lots of fluff day 1 this is quite suspicious to me. If I were to vote I'd consider Llama.

Sig brushes off DH, stating that it is fluff but fluff is OK. Is this a NO U?

I see, I wouldn't' say it appears contributory at all, minus my one line about Llama. I mean the entire post was basically about Zebra and a book series. I have however, made a few on topic posts. Not many, but when I saw something worth pointing out I did. Which was mainly the video thing, besides that I can't think of anything else big. This phase has been fast with lots of pages, but a good portion doesn't seem to be note worthy. So the fact you point out one fluff post of myself when several people have fluff posts or almost no posts is strange.

Yes it was a NO U. It's interesting that at this point in the game (Day 1), all we had from Sig were two "I'll be suspicions of you if you are suspicious of me" conversation kill tactics, Zebra hunky pokeyness, and awkward fluff.

The reason they called me out was suspicious, to deny that it isn't would be interesting. I do have lower activity right know, but the above claim is false. I made a few other posts at this time. To ignore them makes me sad. You are purposely only taking my post that will make me look more guilty and ignoring my other posts. (maybe I shouldn't use two smiles it must prove I'm mafia or engaging in a secret code with another player!)
I don't know what hunky pokeyness is so I guess you mean fluff? I was bored thought it was funny so I did it. Also my fluff wasn't awkward.

and I'm not a fart YOU'RE A FART :P

Y'know... I'm tone reading this as bad. Yup, I don't care what others have to say about this point. Tone reading Sig as bad for this one.

Hmmm... interesting thing is, Sig hasn't used a font color for his jokes... He normally does if I recall correctly. Meh, probably being over speculatory at this point.

@BK I agree that my one post (not posts) wasn't contributory, however I disagree with DH and Llama that I purposeful did a post in this way to make it appear like I was contributing, thus looking scummy since I appear to be contributing but I'm not. Which I wasn't doing I was just being jokey to be jokey.

This is a lie, Sig wouldn't have asked about JJJ in the non contributory post if this were true.

Well he is voting for me isn't that enough?

Yeah, I'm voting for Sig after that crazy misrepresentation of my point.

I don't particularly want to see Ricochet lynched, but I guess it will at least make reading the thread easier.

I don't like his reasoning for voting for me, especially since it seems like he agrees with me here.

Stop with the vocaroo. This is not a vocaroo Mafia.

This. Some of us are in places where we can't play sound, and it's not fair to hide your content from us in that way. Very suspish.

Yet he doesn't mention my post about vocaroo, only my fluffy post. This is suspicious.

He mentions Mac once as suspicious yet hasn't mentioned it again and has said a few times he doesn't think Rico is mafia yet hasn't tried to defend him or switch his vote to himself to try and save Rico

These are all small reasons, but those along with my gut read makes me think he would be a better day 1 lynch then Rico.


linki: I'm pretty sure I mentioned being suspicious of you before, but maybe I didn't.

What are your current thoughts on Mac?

So... the part in pink is odd to me, why would he state that it seems someone agrees, rather than ask and have them agree with you directly or indirectly.

I can't defend myself against someone tone reading my fluff as bad so whatever. LLama already agreed with me no reason to directly ask, what it seems your ignoring is that I found it odd that Llama doesn't mention this, when he is calling me scum and he ignored my OT posts.

So zebra was mafia, that most likely means JJJ wasn't on her team. I did see the idea that she picked him, but this makes little sense for day 1. I think it is worth looking into the players who after Rico flipped made comments, like saying how they hope he isn't as spammy or it would be better to have lynched a baddie. I find the first group to almost be trying to weaken Rico's credit thus giving him less of an opinion and basically neutering him, and the second group to just be scummy.

I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.

I don't have many civ or scum reads right know, but I do think Long Con is a civilian, and I'm leaning scum on Llama. Know here is my question do you think the early snipping that Llama and Zebra did was fabricated? It was only a little bit, but I'm curious what people think of it.

I think with Zebra's lynch it also makes it less likely that Mac is on her team.

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

Where does the LoRab suspicion come from?

I am not Zebra or any other baddies teammate and I am not an indy or an SK.

I actually think this part is more important then the rest of juliets post, if we think there is a lie detector this would be quite a good statement to check. Know there might not be one, but the scum wouldn't know that and I doubt they would say something that could be checked so easily.

Roughly what percentage of Syndicate games have lie detector roles?

I would be surprised to see one in an SVS game. Can't guarantee it, but I think it is less likely.

Okay thanks, do you think Zebra is indeed scum or was it some form of trickery?
It just seems odd for a baddie to be shot on night 1, I don't recall something like that to ever happen. Unless she was just killed for her skill which also makes little sense, she is usually mislynched early to mid game. Know if she was killed by a mafia team for her skill then it could be she was onto something about that team. Thoughts?

link: Okay Epi thanks for clarification.
Mac right know they are both null, I think HB is being genuine in his defense of juliets, however, I guess he could be scum buddies and still be genuine.
What do you think of Llama?

Sig's insentience on seemers being in play seems silly. What would pondering this do? I need to check how often Sig states "What do you think of X?" as a civ...

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

I hit a mafia with my wii vigi gun on Night 1 in the Donner game (from which my role is).

Why would a non-mafia seemer role choose to show up as mafia? Besides, her role (powers) still sounded scummy. She would have been able to screw up with a (presumably cop's) alignment checks. The insanification part can usually be attributed to both town and anti-town (if the question-ifier is town, it makes sense for balance purposes), but her "position 4" is the biggest indicator that she was up to no good.

Or are you saying her killer can change how he shows up? Is this a reference to the Trickster or any other role this past year? What did the Trickster do in WR?

The only thing I don't get is how come zebra acted cognizant within minutes of her death. Night victims don't usually get told they're going down (except if you're watching footie at Epig's home while he's hosting). Strange near-death behaviour.

I was saying her killer might be able to change her role or alignment, I haven't seen a role like that on TS yet, but I've played on other sites that have such a role. I think the chances of it happening is low, but figured it was worth mentioning.

Sig, do you think that there are any roles in this game that are from outside TS?

To sum up my thoughts, I think Sig is scumdoodlin, but I don't have a point of reference due to... well... not paying attention for awhile. What do others think of this? I'm going to drop my vote on him, and look at some others.[/quote]


I don't see him asking anything here, but to sum up my responses I think all of Wilgy's reasons are weak, I think he slapped together a case on me to make it seem like he is contributing and that he doesn't actually think I'm scum.

[sig]

I think I did the quotes right I was having some trouble with them, to answer the last question. I think it is possibly for the hosts to incorporate roles or role abiliteis from outside of TS into the game or they could just come up with the ideas themselves as they switch up the roles.

[DrWilgy]

Re: your thoughts on Sig I don't know. I've been watching how people respond to the accusations but don't know how I feel about them myself.

That's kinda dangerous Fuzz, I understand playing a step or 2 deep is important, but what about the here and now? if you think someone's reactionary logic is flawed and accuse them for it, how would you react if it turns out to be correct?

Linki - That quote mess...

[Golden]

Re timmer, gut/meta in the face of very little evidence. But you make good points, HB, about the World Reborn, and I had forgotten anything about engaging with him on day zero.
Re Doc, your iso is remarkably bare, even taking into account the DrWilgy stylistic flourish.

Gotcha, I don't really know why that puts me low on your list though (ISO-ing on mobile is hard, just adding pink text to quotes is a nightmare). What are your thoughts on Sig? He's in the same maroon that I am, and you've also never mentioned him outside a quote here and there.

No, I hadn't. Sometimes when you stick everyone in a list and force yourself to write a read on them, you come up with things you hadn't said in the thread before on people you hadn't thought deeply about. This is why I personally think the rainbow list exercise is useful.

I've found a number of sig's contributions to be... I guess reaching and not overly contributory. I thought I didn't agree with llama's view on sig, but I think I've discovered that I do, after a longer period of time. Sig in West Wing was relatively quiet and not overly contributory, and he was bad. I find civilian sig is often getting lynched for putting his foot in it because he is trying hard to present ideas. I don't really get the same vibe here.

[HamburgerBoy]

Engaging in my catch up and I have to say this post really rings my bells.

1. I don't think it clears JJJ from being on Zebra's team at all. Mafia target in-house with those types of roles early very often.
2. I disagree. I think its good form for Rico to dial it back now that he's done what he wanted to do. I also can't fault anyone for thinking that however unlikely it would have been, lynching a baddie D1 would trump lynching a civvie.
3. Rico would have been a very easy vote to make late, I agree.
4. Several instances of your post (the suspecting people who thought it would be better to lynch a mafia, calling out Lorab and Llama) already indicate you suspect Llama, But you don't say why. Seems like a vendetta to me.
4. How?
5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

This feels so bad. I don't agree with any of it, or at least don't think any of it are good reasons to think Sig is bad. I don't know about Sig, but DH's reasons just feel like he's trying to find a post he can use to legitimize his vote. I don't buy it.

In what way don't you agree with it? E.g. would you say that Zebra silencing JJJ clears JJJ from being on the same time?

[RadicalFuzz]

Re: your thoughts on Sig I don't know. I've been watching how people respond to the accusations but don't know how I feel about them myself.

That's kinda dangerous Fuzz, I understand playing a step or 2 deep is important, but what about the here and now? if you think someone's reactionary logic is flawed and accuse them for it, how would you react if it turns out to be correct?

The here and now isn't what I'm concerned about, given my soon-to-be absence from the thread. If I think someone's logic is flawed and I use logic to point that out then one of us is either objectively wrong or trying to account for future human behavior, which is inconsistent.

[Golden]

5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

Also, this (re the speculation that zebra could be a seemer).

I bring speculation in to the thread all the time as a civ, so I don't agree with DH's premise so much. I think it depends what the speculation is.

Zebra's role:

Roger Rabbit - Who Framed Roger Rabbit~ A BADDIE
In position 4, Roger Rabbit can frame a player by making them appear bad to alignment checks.
In any other Position, he may target a player and force them to post using only emoticons for the next Day.

In what world does this role power say 'seemer'? For me this is probably the biggest strike against sig.

[sig]

Where does the LoRab suspicion come from?

This is a valid question. If sig is jumping on the Lorab wagon without his own reasons, then it's worth looking into. I do think that the Lorab suspicion was talked out by several people, and I must admit, she's on the baddie end of my hypothetical rainbow list because I read those opinions on her and agreed with some of them. I never delved into it and made my own case on her, but I still held suspicion based on what I read.

Rico didn't flip scum, I think there were to many people on his wagon who wouldn't even consider switching thus I think one of the other two is mafia. This made me suspicious of LoRab since in theory she could be the baddie. Since as I said I think there is a good chance one of the other wagons was a mafia member.

A rainbow, because why not:


Moderate baddie

sig
Dr. Wilgy
Long Con

Why am I a moderate baddie? I also find it funny you have LC and Wilgy both in the same class of reads. I can't recall you voicing suspicious on any of us especially me?

Aside from potentially llama, who are your biggest suspects right now? I'm really glad you did a comprehensive ISO on Zebra, but as you said here, you don't seem to have found any confident ones right now, and llama seemed to be what you found as the best connection regardless.

My top suspect right now might be MM. I'm also suspicious of sig, Long Con, and llama. I also compiled a "maybe" list for more speculative possibilities: sorsha, dharmahelper, mac, and boomslang.

Again why, barley any mentions of me before this, is this a no u from day 1?

You could change my mind. You aren't suspicious enough to me to be of immediate concern. Right now I am far more convinced that sig is bad. Help me find the big bads.

Sig is primary candidate for Zebra teammate! Let's lynch him.

No reason here, not even a weak case, and is his giant post that I snipped he didn't mention me once.

Linki:

Re timmer, gut/meta in the face of very little evidence. But you make good points, HB, about the World Reborn, and I had forgotten anything about engaging with him on day zero.
Re Doc, your iso is remarkably bare, even taking into account the DrWilgy stylistic flourish.

Gotcha, I don't really know why that puts me low on your list though (ISO-ing on mobile is hard, just adding pink text to quotes is a nightmare). What are your thoughts on Sig? He's in the same maroon that I am, and you've also never mentioned him outside a quote here and there.

No, I hadn't. Sometimes when you stick everyone in a list and force yourself to write a read on them, you come up with things you hadn't said in the thread before on people you hadn't thought deeply about. This is why I personally think the rainbow list exercise is useful.

I've found a number of sig's contributions to be... I guess reaching and not overly contributory. I thought I didn't agree with llama's view on sig, but I think I've discovered that I do, after a longer period of time. Sig in West Wing was relatively quiet and not overly contributory, and he was bad. I find civilian sig is often getting lynched for putting his foot in it because he is trying hard to present ideas. I don't really get the same vibe here.

Yes I am usually getting lynched for that, this is why I was trying to take more of a Frisky Dingo approach to this game. Looks like that isn't working so I can increase my activity and push ideas, only to get lynched after wasting at least one day with all the attention on me. I'd rather not do this so I'm presenting ideas as I see them. Also this game has been very fast paced so I haven't posted as much, however this in no way means I'm scum.

[Epignosis]

You seem bitter this game.

I'm not. I was annoyed at the time because Eloh couldn't enjoy this and replaced out.

I missed you mentioning me before and yet appear at the bottom of the orange list. WTF?

I did mention you briefly a couple times but I'll list my grievances more formal-style now:

1. You specifically called out LoRab wanting to see what she'd say, and then (the following day) accused her of not answering questions when she had in the time between. Also, you never went back and addressed things with her after saying you'd read them.
2. Your reason for voting seemed to mostly follow Epi and Sorsha's case, the latter I especially didn't buy.
3. Aside from Rico, who you ultimately declared yourself undecided on regardless, you haven't seemed to look anywhere outside of LoRab

Of course, all of that falls apart of it turns out LoRab is actually scum, and I only have meta from one game on her, but I feel a bit townier about her than you and Sorsha.

If Black Rock is bad and not genuine in her suspicion of Lorab this early, I will be surprised.

[HamburgerBoy]

Why am I a moderate baddie? I also find it funny you have LC and Wilgy both in the same class of reads. I can't recall you voicing suspicious on any of us especially me?

He did suspect you for your Zebra interactions; you should probably go back and reply to his case there.

[Golden]

If Black Rock is bad and not genuine in her suspicion of Lorab this early, I will be surprised.

I agree.

Of the people with multiple votes right now, I'm most likely to vote sig but could also vote LoRab. I'm not going to vote JJ.

Why am I a moderate baddie? I also find it funny you have LC and Wilgy both in the same class of reads. I can't recall you voicing suspicious on any of us especially me?

He did suspect you for your Zebra interactions; you should probably go back and reply to his case there.

I don't recall doing that. I have expressed my suspicion of LC a few times, though.

[Golden]

I mean, BEFORE I had him in my rainbow list.

[HamburgerBoy]

Sorry golden, botched quote, I meant "Again why, barley any mentions of me before this, is this a no u from day 1? " regarding JJJ's suspicions of sig.

[FZ.]

Engaging in my catch up and I have to say this post really rings my bells.

1. I don't think it clears JJJ from being on Zebra's team at all. Mafia target in-house with those types of roles early very often.
2. I disagree. I think its good form for Rico to dial it back now that he's done what he wanted to do. I also can't fault anyone for thinking that however unlikely it would have been, lynching a baddie D1 would trump lynching a civvie.
3. Rico would have been a very easy vote to make late, I agree.
4. Several instances of your post (the suspecting people who thought it would be better to lynch a mafia, calling out Lorab and Llama) already indicate you suspect Llama, But you don't say why. Seems like a vendetta to me.
4. How?
5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

This feels so bad. I don't agree with any of it, or at least don't think any of it are good reasons to think Sig is bad. I don't know about Sig, but DH's reasons just feel like he's trying to find a post he can use to legitimize his vote. I don't buy it.

In what way don't you agree with it? E.g. would you say that Zebra silencing JJJ clears JJJ from being on the same time?

It doesn't clear JJJ, but I don't find Sig suspicious for saying it. I find DH more suspicious for latching onto these kind of statements and using them to pain someone bad.

[Black Rock]

I just noticed MM hasn't posted this phase apart from this single thing:

And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

Does this OT Bengals lamentation qualify as evidence that he can't be silenced? I don't know what's typical on The Syndicate. Do silenced players tend to post in OT? I don't remember seeing it.

I've never seen silenced players allowed to post in any capacity OT or otherwise.

Au contraire.

In Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia, I cursed SVS to make a minimum of 10 posts using the smiley in it (or something to that effect). She was silenced the same night. So llama comrpomised, and said SVS could post, but only in OT green with said smiley involved.

And no, I'm not silenced, just busy. And disheartened.

Disheartened?

[sig]

So zebra was mafia, that most likely means JJJ wasn't on her team. I did see the idea that she picked him, but this makes little sense for day 1. I think it is worth looking into the players who after Rico flipped made comments, like saying how they hope he isn't as spammy or it would be better to have lynched a baddie. I find the first group to almost be trying to weaken Rico's credit thus giving him less of an opinion and basically neutering him, and the second group to just be scummy.

I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.

I don't have many civ or scum reads right know, but I do think Long Con is a civilian, and I'm leaning scum on Llama. Know here is my question do you think the early snipping that Llama and Zebra did was fabricated? It was only a little bit, but I'm curious what people think of it.

I think with Zebra's lynch it also makes it less likely that Mac is on her team.

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

Engaging in my catch up and I have to say this post really rings my bells.

1. I don't think it clears JJJ from being on Zebra's team at all. Mafia target in-house with those types of roles early very often.
2. I disagree. I think its good form for Rico to dial it back now that he's done what he wanted to do. I also can't fault anyone for thinking that however unlikely it would have been, lynching a baddie D1 would trump lynching a civvie.
3. Rico would have been a very easy vote to make late, I agree.
4. Several instances of your post (the suspecting people who thought it would be better to lynch a mafia, calling out Lorab and Llama) already indicate you suspect Llama, But you don't say why. Seems like a vendetta to me.
4. How?
5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

1. That is my thought process I might be wrong, but I don't see how this would be scummy?
2. I disagree here, the chances of lynching a baddie day 1 is so small, getting an unkillable confirmed civ is better then maybe possibly lynching a baddie day 1. I think it is scummy for people to say it would have been better to lynch a baddie.
3. Cool glad we agree here
4. I've given reasons against Llama? Calling it a vendetta is pingy to me, it is an attempt to make anything I say about Llama look like a grudge match thus making people less likely to believe my case.
4. part 2, Her and Mac's interactions, however I'm not as confident in that today as I was when i first made this post.
5. I deemed that it was something important to discuss, so I brought it up.

Oh also I'm voting sig for the moment. Not likely to change unless something really fucks me up in my catch up.

That big fluffy post of fluff was a total red flag, his defense of it was weak, and the post above is another flag for me.

Still going on about the fluff post, plus he calls my defense of it weak. First I shouldn't have even needed to defend a fluff post, second how does one defend a joky post? There is no way he would think I had a strong defense. All three reasons are weak. I think my initial suspicion of DH might be accurate and this is one of the reasons he is voting for me.

So zebra was mafia, that most likely means JJJ wasn't on her team. I did see the idea that she picked him, but this makes little sense for day 1. I think it is worth looking into the players who after Rico flipped made comments, like saying how they hope he isn't as spammy or it would be better to have lynched a baddie. I find the first group to almost be trying to weaken Rico's credit thus giving him less of an opinion and basically neutering him, and the second group to just be scummy.

I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.

I don't have many civ or scum reads right know, but I do think Long Con is a civilian, and I'm leaning scum on Llama. Know here is my question do you think the early snipping that Llama and Zebra did was fabricated? It was only a little bit, but I'm curious what people think of it.

I think with Zebra's lynch it also makes it less likely that Mac is on her team.

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

One thing I'm always wary of is Mafia buddying up to Civs, so this is one thing that I have to say toward the relatively popular idea that sig is bad. Why do you think I'm Civ, sig?

A combination of your tone and the fact that you're defending me, true you could be mafia doing this, but from the games I've played with you your more likely to push me as mafia and attempt to lynch me. I think you see other players doing this and recognize that it is what you would do as scum, and that is why you defended me.
You could be mafia defending me in reverse of what you usually do and to get civ points but I think that is less likely.

[FZ.]

5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

Also, this (re the speculation that zebra could be a seemer).

I bring speculation in to the thread all the time as a civ, so I don't agree with DH's premise so much. I think it depends what the speculation is.

Zebra's role:

Roger Rabbit - Who Framed Roger Rabbit~ A BADDIE
In position 4, Roger Rabbit can frame a player by making them appear bad to alignment checks.
In any other Position, he may target a player and force them to post using only emoticons for the next Day.

In what world does this role power say 'seemer'? For me this is probably the biggest strike against sig.

This might be a difference of cultures issue. I think a seemer is either a person who will look bad when checked or a person who can make someone look bad. Or did I misunderstand what you're asking here?

[sig]

I'm not a fan of sig's speculation of seemers. We have no reason to suspect that there are seemers yet.


Anyway, I'm gonna vote for sig now. I'm still busy guys and doing my best. Anyone who plays with me knows that I don't like phoning it in like this.

I seem to recall Mafia Dom making posts like this, but I've never seen his civ meta. I don't see anything wrong with discussing seemers since as I said I found it odd Zebra a scum was shot night 1. This is reason enough to think there might be a seemer.

I think this was all the points against me, and I'm not seeing any real case against me, it seems like cobbled together reasons that make no sense and is just something for people to latch onto.

[Golden]

This might be a difference of cultures issue. I think a seemer is either a person who will look bad when checked or a person who can make someone look bad. Or did I misunderstand what you're asking here?

Maybe. Sig didn't obviously 'speculate' that it could be someone who can make someone look bad, since the role said that outright. Sig was speculating that zebra was actually good. Further than that, he was speculating that Zebra really was the Roger Rabbit role, just that her affiliation was wrong.

But look at the role powers. They do not appear to be the role powers of a civilian. They appear to be the role powers of a baddie.

But, let me ask you something FZ, you seem quite passionate in your perspective that sig is civ. This is interesting, given you have recently subbed in and so bring a different perspective. I think you've explained well why you think some of the points made against sig are suspicious or unfair, but could you put into words why you think sig is good (if I am reading you right and you do).

[sig]

5. This is a big ping for me. A huge indication of mafia is their tendency to bring speculation into the thread.

Also, this (re the speculation that zebra could be a seemer).

I bring speculation in to the thread all the time as a civ, so I don't agree with DH's premise so much. I think it depends what the speculation is.

Zebra's role:

Roger Rabbit - Who Framed Roger Rabbit~ A BADDIE
In position 4, Roger Rabbit can frame a player by making them appear bad to alignment checks.
In any other Position, he may target a player and force them to post using only emoticons for the next Day.

In what world does this role power say 'seemer'? For me this is probably the biggest strike against sig.

This might be a difference of cultures issue. I think a seemer is either a person who will look bad when checked or a person who can make someone look bad. Or did I misunderstand what you're asking here?

I thought it was a role that would either make people appear as different roles, or flip alignments? So a civ would flip as mafia viceverse or a different role altogether.

[Golden]

I have to say one of the complicated things going on with me is my biggest suspects seem to be at odds.

But I will say sig saying he reads Long Con as civilian does not appear to me to be buddying up.

In fact, I hesitate to say anyone merely saying 'I read person x as civilian' without much more to it is buddying up. My own reads are not deterred simply because someone reads me a certain way (I don't stop thinking someone is civ because they think I'm bad. I don't stop thinking someone is bad because they think I'm good.)

Golden and I seem to be on a very similar wavelength so far this game, I can dig it.

THIS is what I call buddying up.

[Boomslang]

I'm running low on time before class, and I don't think I'll be able to vote after that. Quite disappointed in Drac's lack of posting today. I think the JJJ case is overblown; his effort with the smiley curse alone, when as a baddie he could have safely played it cool, makes me lean civ on him. Lorab's defense seems genuine, while sig is much more flippant. I don't like the games he played with smileys in a recent post, in particular; it's self-conscious, not natural. I'll put my vote *on sig* unless I find time on a class break to read more and change my mind.

Linki w/Golden: Good illustration of the difference between civ read/buddying. Worth keeping in mind, imo.

[sig]

I'm running low on time before class, and I don't think I'll be able to vote after that. Quite disappointed in Drac's lack of posting today. I think the JJJ case is overblown; his effort with the smiley curse alone, when as a baddie he could have safely played it cool, makes me lean civ on him. Lorab's defense seems genuine, while sig is much more flippant. I don't like the games he played with smileys in a recent post, in particular; it's self-conscious, not natural. I'll put my vote *on sig* unless I find time on a class break to read more and change my mind.

Linki w/Golden: Good illustration of the difference between civ read/buddying. Worth keeping in mind, imo.

Well this vote isn't opportunistic at all.

[DharmaHelper]

1. That is my thought process I might be wrong, but I don't see how this would be scummy?
2. I disagree here, the chances of lynching a baddie day 1 is so small, getting an unkillable confirmed civ is better then maybe possibly lynching a baddie day 1. I think it is scummy for people to say it would have been better to lynch a baddie.
3. Cool glad we agree here
4. I've given reasons against Llama? Calling it a vendetta is pingy to me, it is an attempt to make anything I say about Llama look like a grudge match thus making people less likely to believe my case.
4. part 2, Her and Mac's interactions, however I'm not as confident in that today as I was when i first made this post.
5. I deemed that it was something important to discuss, so I brought it up.

Still going on about the fluff post, plus he calls my defense of it weak. First I shouldn't have even needed to defend a fluff post, second how does one defend a joky post? There is no way he would think I had a strong defense. All three reasons are weak. I think my initial suspicion of DH might be accurate and this is one of the reasons he is voting for me.

First off, "Jokey" and "fluff" are two different things man. Your post was fluff, that is to say its intended purpose was to appear to contribute to discussion without actually doing so. Your response to the scrutiny of this post has amounted to "Oh guess anyone who looks at me is bad". Not gonna fly.

2. Well, in terms of "winning the game", lynching baddies trumps lynching civvies, regardless of how possible either outcome is.
4. Everything I've seen from you RE: Llama (and myself for that matter) has come on the heels of llama suspecting you. I have difficulty thinking that is genuine.

[sig]

I didn't think there was a difference between fluffy and jokey, I've always thought they meant the same thing. I responded to your and everyone's cases against me, however as I said how can I defend myself from posts that you can't defend yourself from? I don't think everyone who is voting for me is scummy however many of you give scummy or weak reasoning for your vote.

[FZ.]

This might be a difference of cultures issue. I think a seemer is either a person who will look bad when checked or a person who can make someone look bad. Or did I misunderstand what you're asking here?

Maybe. Sig didn't obviously 'speculate' that it could be someone who can make someone look bad, since the role said that outright. Sig was speculating that zebra was actually good. Further than that, he was speculating that Zebra really was the Roger Rabbit role, just that her affiliation was wrong.

But look at the role powers. They do not appear to be the role powers of a civilian. They appear to be the role powers of a baddie.

But, let me ask you something FZ, you seem quite passionate in your perspective that sig is civ. This is interesting, given you have recently subbed in and so bring a different perspective. I think you've explained well why you think some of the points made against sig are suspicious or unfair, but could you put into words why you think sig is good (if I am reading you right and you do).

I don't really think I've played with bad Sig, or at least I don't remember him as one. But I completely agree with what you said about him often being lynched as a civvie for managing to get his foot in his mouth. This is what I'm seeing here. Maybe the fact I've missed some of the early game discussion is preventing me from seeing something, but I just don't see anything that feels bad about him. He just feels like his normal self. The fact that a lot of people find him suspicious can mean two things in my opinion: 1. That he's bad and some of his team mates are throwing him under the bus, or 2. that he's good and he's an easy lynch to hide behind. The more people vote for him, the easier it is for a baddie to hide in the crowd

[DharmaHelper]

I didn't think there was a difference between fluffy and jokey, I've always thought they meant the same thing. I responded to your and everyone's cases against me, however as I said how can I defend myself from posts that you can't defend yourself from? I don't think everyone who is voting for me is scummy however many of you give scummy or weak reasoning for your vote.

A good start is by not immediately attacking anyone who finds you suspicious for doing a suspicious thing.

[FZ.]

Can someone tell me what is the case on Lorab?

Also, JJJ, why is MM your top suspect? Do you find Sig to be good? If not, why are you kind of wasting a vote (unless you think people will join you...not that I'm seeing you try to convince anyone)

[DharmaHelper]

This might be a difference of cultures issue. I think a seemer is either a person who will look bad when checked or a person who can make someone look bad. Or did I misunderstand what you're asking here?

Maybe. Sig didn't obviously 'speculate' that it could be someone who can make someone look bad, since the role said that outright. Sig was speculating that zebra was actually good. Further than that, he was speculating that Zebra really was the Roger Rabbit role, just that her affiliation was wrong.

But look at the role powers. They do not appear to be the role powers of a civilian. They appear to be the role powers of a baddie.

But, let me ask you something FZ, you seem quite passionate in your perspective that sig is civ. This is interesting, given you have recently subbed in and so bring a different perspective. I think you've explained well why you think some of the points made against sig are suspicious or unfair, but could you put into words why you think sig is good (if I am reading you right and you do).

I don't really think I've played with bad Sig, or at least I don't remember him as one. But I completely agree with what you said about him often being lynched as a civvie for managing to get his foot in his mouth. This is what I'm seeing here. Maybe the fact I've missed some of the early game discussion is preventing me from seeing something, but I just don't see anything that feels bad about him. He just feels like his normal self. The fact that a lot of people find him suspicious can mean two things in my opinion: 1. That he's bad and some of his team mates are throwing him under the bus, or 2. that he's good and he's an easy lynch to hide behind. The more people vote for him, the easier it is for a baddie to hide in the crowd

[Ricochet]

Zebra's role isn't a seemer. She would have framed a player to show up bad on checks. That's just manipulation. A seemer would show up as good when lynched.

The speculation plausibile would be if Zebra's killer would mess with zebra's role reveal, turning it into a bad flip.

[RadicalFuzz]

While it doesn't qualify as a "case" per se, you did overlook my question from a short while ago.

[sig]

DH used a smile he must be mafia case closed.



Kinda stupid isn't it? That is at least two people's reasons or a portion of their reasons for voting me.


linki: Yes that is what I'm saying a seemer did something to Zebra, they had a night 0 to preform actions so it is possibly that they set her up. If this is the case that means Zebra was most likely right about her mafia reads and they wanted to discredit them, or did it for an unknown reason.

linki: Me fuzz?

[RadicalFuzz]

Yeah Sig, it was on the last page.

[Golden]

Zebra's role isn't a seemer. She would have framed a player to show up bad on checks. That's just manipulation. A seemer would show up as good when lynched.

The speculation plausibile would be if Zebra's killer would mess with zebra's role reveal, turning it into a bad flip.

Yeah, but think it through.

The basis for sig's suspicion is that 'Roger Rabbit was a civ role last time' - coming from the fact that I was a civ as Roger Rabbit and said so.

So, is the idea that Zebra's role is true, but his role powers and affiliation are not?

Surely either only the affiliation would change and everything else would stay the same (in which case, the powers look bad and so I think there is no change to zebra's affiliation)... OR
Everything has changed.

Sig's theory doesn't check through, if you consider the fact his starting point was 'last time Roger Rabbit was civ'.

[sig]

Sig, I have an issue with your statement.

Well I see I have five votes, I'll need to catch up on the thread and see why this is,but from my skimming early today it seems they are voting for me based around a connection with zebra? If this is the reason then it is silly that anyone who knows my scum game would think i'd so obviously buddy up to a fellow mafia member. When I usually have little to no interaction with them.

You believe you're being lynched because you buddied Zebra, correct? And your defense is, essentially, "that's not how I play as scum, anyone who's ever seen me play as scum knows I don't do that," right? You are clearly a human being, and human beings have the ability to adapt to various situations.

Anyway, time for my question. Answer it honestly, you never know who's watching. Do you expect the defense of "I would never do X as scum, but in this game I have done X so I am not scum" to prove effective?

In my first post yes I thought that was the main reason, also that was part of my defense at that time. I think my answers to other players cases was better then this post, however I will point out nobody actually points out how I was budding up with Zebra. I'd also like to note that we didn't lynhc Zebra so it isn't like I defended her or started a counter wagon. It was a NK and almost nobody had voiced doubt about her before. This also plays into my manipulation thoughts. She happened to get killed and flip mafia this give people a good amount of material to make cases on. However, if she is civ it gives a good amount of mislynch cases and since it is still early people don't have many clear reads and wouldbe more likely to vote based around a weak interaction case then letter in the game.

linki: I've seen different changes sometimes only affiliation, sometimes both. I think it could be either, however I'd lean to saying just the players alignment would change. Is this likely, probably not but, I thought it was worth bringing up.

[FZ.]

Zebra's role isn't a seemer. She would have framed a player to show up bad on checks. That's just manipulation. A seemer would show up as good when lynched.

The speculation plausibile would be if Zebra's killer would mess with zebra's role reveal, turning it into a bad flip.

Yeah, but think it through.

The basis for sig's suspicion is that 'Roger Rabbit was a civ role last time' - coming from the fact that I was a civ as Roger Rabbit and said so.

So, is the idea that Zebra's role is true, but his role powers and affiliation are not?

Surely either only the affiliation would change and everything else would stay the same (in which case, the powers look bad and so I think there is no change to zebra's affiliation)... OR
Everything has changed.

Sig's theory doesn't check through, if you consider the fact his starting point was 'last time Roger Rabbit was civ'.

Do you have any idea why it seemed like zebra knew she was going to die before it was revealed? At least that was my impression.