Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[thellama73]

I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

[Marmot]

I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

Sometimes < half the time ==> more often then not, players that almost get lynched multiple times in one game turn out to be civilian.

[thellama73]

I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

Sometimes < half the time ==> more often then not, players that almost get lynched multiple times in one game turn out to be civilian.

That's fair. I confess that I have no statistics to back up my observation.

[Black Rock]

I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

Sometimes < half the time ==> more often then not, players that almost get lynched multiple times in one game turn out to be civilian.

That's fair. I confess that I have no statistics to back up my observation.

I can't even remember things that accurately.

[DrWilgy]

Something that's interesting is that you and Lorab had the same number of votes day 1 Llama.

Would what you said about her also apply to you?

[bcornett24]

Missed my second vote in a row. Been busy with teaching stuff with the start of the new year and all. I've been reading periodically. I have currently read pages 1 through 16, skimmed pages 17 through 24, and read pages 30 through 38. I don't recall half of what has happened to be honest. Mind you, my pages are grouped in 50s.

I recall Rico acting strangely which was clearly intentional based upon his role. This generated a lot of content from zebra who was night killed as mafia. Based on what several other people said this ended up making a lot of the day/night 1content useless to some degree with exception of creating an ISO.

As i read through pages 30 through 38, i didn't find anything that really stuck out to me. Then again I don't recall much either. I'm going to start rereading everything after night 1. Is there anything that I should pay attention to as i go over this?

[bcornett24]

Looks like I will be starting on page 38 a d reading through 45.

[bcornett24]

Err... 35 through 45 I meant.

[thellama73]

Something that's interesting is that you and Lorab had the same number of votes day 1 Llama.

Would what you said about her also apply to you?

Obviously not because I know I am civ.

[Long Con]

I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

Sometimes < half the time ==> more often then not, players that almost get lynched multiple times in one game turn out to be civilian.

That's fair. I confess that I have no statistics to back up my observation.

Ok, well that pings me a bit.

Something that's interesting is that you and Lorab had the same number of votes day 1 Llama.

Would what you said about her also apply to you?

Obviously not because I know I am civ.

A comma would have help this statement go from suspicious lie-detector tricking to a more reasonable read.

[Ricochet]

Oh, man, this role was a godsend for me; I worked all late afternoon today and I'm beat; I'll work all afternoon tomorrow, so I'll be beat again. Soooo let's say we reconvene here on Thursday. k thx

[Ricochet]

ALSO BADDIES DIAL THE NUMBER BELOW I GO TO SLEEP VERY LATE SO NO PROBLEM ANSWERING ANY OF YOU

[Spacedaisy]

I wanted to let everyone know that I requested a replacement but it doesn't sound like it is likely to happen. I have been trying to catch up at the same time as trying to catch up on some mod duties and in the midst of a migraine which is making everything difficult. I'm sorry to not be able to give this game the attention it deserves. I would invite mafia to kill me. I would say lynch me but that is hardly fair to my civ teammates, but should the mafia kill me it would be welcome reprieve for me and they would benefit from having my role eliminated...

[S~V~S]

We got a replacement

We were going to announce it after the post, and still will. So no worries Daisy feel better

[Spacedaisy]

Thanks guys and I'm sorry for adding confusion to the mix! I'm now going to go relax in the dark for a while...

[juliets]

OK, I finally got re-started though I'm disheartened on the BR iso. I'm doing the backhalf first because I just can't do that first half over again right now.

Here are the things BR said about Ricochet early in the game. Note these posts were interspersed with the posts about Lorab:

Spoiler: show

Oh, and I picked Xander Crews. I hope if that role is in the game that whoever has it finds more luck than I did with it. I never found a single xticle or whatever the hell they were.

The only Xander voter so far. Either there's a reward for the top choice(s) and Timmer's trying to stay away from it, perhaps distance himself from teammates, or there's something to gain from every option and he's trying to get his share. Confirmed baddie.

Cute.

I was just thinking how I wasn't going to vote for you day one because of the banner you're sporting, I may have changed my mind.

Ricochet
DharmaHelper
MacDougall
thellama73

DharmaHelper

a2thezebra
bcornett24
Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
Boomslang
dfaraday
DharmaHelper
Dom
Dr. Wilgy
Draconus
Elohcin
Epignosis
Golden
Hamburger Boy
JaggedJimmyJay
Juliets
Long Con
LoRab
Matt
Metalmarsh
nijuukyugou
RadicalFuzz
sig
Sorsha
Spacedaisy
Timmer
Tranq

How can you have one of these already? Can you explain your reasonings for rainbow list placements?

The nose knows.

By your list the game must be off balance.

A current update of my rainbow list, hopefully less bloated and arbitrary this time.

Ricochet

DharmaHelper

MacDougall

thellama73

DharmaHelper

JaggedJimmyJay

Epignosis	a2thezebra	Hamburger Boy	Bass_the_Clever
Boomslang	bcornett24	Spacedaisy	Draconus
dfaraday	LoRab	Sorsha	nijuukyugou
Metalmarsh	Juliets	RadicalFuzz	Dom
sig	Matt	Tranq	Dr. Wilgy
Golden	Timmer	Elohcin

Black Rock

Long Con

DharmaHelper

Cute

What happened? I left off on page 8 and I just got back to page 20. Most of me does not want to read all of that.

In short: you're bad, three of your teamies have also been caught.

By me, the great Papryco.

Oh my, what is a girl to do.

That can be read in monotone.

What I was looking for was more the specific instances of his behavior. I did see your early day 0 poll post concerning his dismissal-yet-concern over the results, so I'll acknowledge that as a reasonable point, especially since I'm not in a position to discuss previous roles on the Syndicate (except Xander I guess). That one aside, and that he's now apparently given up, what is so unfathomable? So he cherry-picked some stuff involving Zebra's day 0 meta, not great, but arguments with Zebra always end up long and impassioned. I don't see it as unfathomable that he might get caught up in some silly argument as a town player.

Rico is not making poor arguments.

He isn't making arguments at all.

He is merely spouting nonsense and being a distraction. He says he is trying to catch baddies, but he has put literally zero effort into it. Not one of his cases demonstrates any attempt at any critical thought. The only thing he is putting effort into is being a distraction.

I see no civ motivation for that, and despite all of your defences of rico, and saying you think my question is manipluative or whatever, you (and anyone else) still haven't actually been able to present any sensible objective civ theoretical motivation for that behaviour.

In all seriousness, I'm beginning to be sorrowed by your willignness to put me down for the same reason you were lynched in Recruitement so badly - playing the game your way, to the best of your powers, with full confidence in being on the right path of exposing baddies. That's, frankly, what's unfathomable.

You can't understand where everyone is coming from? Maybe my opinion is shaded by knowing what alignment my role is, but it seems like you're just randomly accusing people and sometimes making statements that seem jokey and based on nothing. I don't see where you are catching baddies to the best of your ability, I see most (not all) of your posts more of a distraction. If you aren't a baddie you just made yourself an easy vote target that baddies can hide behind. In that case you just wasted a whole day of baddie hunting.

[quote="Back Rock]Now that I have quoted the post deleted the twirls and previewed it I can be satisfied.

Interesting back and forth between Rico and LoRab.

I haven't read the 11 pages before page 20, and I won't be unless I think I missed something important. Ricos posts don't count.

My opinion is all though Rico has been distracting and posting a lot of crap (all the way up to page 8) I don't find him that suspicious. Would he really want that much attention? I was thinking he had a neutral role, if those exist in this game.

He did have a point about LoRabs original post. Seemed easy and even her Matt points were wishy washy at best. Not the best example of LoRabs mafia play. Is she bad? or just not that into it? [/quote]

I'm voting for you because you're using your post count to control the direction of the thread, and you're using your attitude as an excuse for any suspicious things you might happen to say. Your wrap-up post above seems like a genuine effort, but in the greater context of your ISO it can't be trusted as genuine. And your gimmick seems to have even fooled some of the players. Black Rock for instance made the point that as a baddie you wouldn't have a decent reason to call so much attention to yourself. I know the reason. To get as many people as possible to think just that, that you wouldn't be so "reckless" as a baddie to perform the way you have. I'm not perfect but I like to think I'm pretty decent at being able to tell the difference between civ WIFOM and mafia WIFOM, and you reek of the latter.

I was trying to stay out of the WIFOM of it all, your point is valid and maybe I shouldn't just chalk it up to crap non-baddie behaviour. He does make me want to vote him for his crap posts.

I'll stop here for a minute just to say it appears BR didn't take Ricochet seriously from the beginning. She didn't change her opinion of him and didn't vote him (she voted Lorab of course). Her reactions to him appear normal to me. This section does not include all her responses to Rico but is a good sampling.

Here BR expresses what I would call a ping against Sorsha. I don't know what to think of this - I include it in case anyone else sees it as important:

Spoiler: show

Thoughts on you posting a lot around the time of these deaths, actually.

I post when I have time to post. "These deaths?" Do you just mean DF? Or are you accusing me of killing zebra the baddie?

Sorry Sorsha, I do not like this post. Just because a baddie is killed doesn't mean another baddie didn't do it. So, what's your point?

I believe BR was the first to sniff that something was up with zebra's talk of cursers:

Spoiler: show

I'm fairly certain there are two curse roles, even if Draconus and/or JJJ is faking their curse.

That's a funny thing to say, what makes you so sure?

Spoiler: show

Hamburger Boy posts a rainbow list with BR in dark orange at the very bottom of the list. BR says WTF. Hambuger answers: I did mention you briefly a couple times but I'll list my grievances more formal-style now:

1. You specifically called out LoRab wanting to see what she'd say, and then (the following day) accused her of not answering questions when she had in the time between. Also, you never went back and addressed things with her after saying you'd read them.
2. Your reason for voting seemed to mostly follow Epi and Sorsha's case, the latter I especially didn't buy.
3. Aside from Rico, who you ultimately declared yourself undecided on regardless, you haven't seemed to look anywhere outside of LoRab

It is true that I can't find a time when BR went back and addressed Lorab's answers. I haven't compared BR's case to Epi and Sorsha - maybe BR could tell us whether she was bouncing off of their cases. True BR's comments about people have been mostly limited to Lorab and Rico though she did at least make comments about others (Tranq, zebra, JJJ though I'm not sure she asked questions of them prior to HB's list). To me the most compelling of these items is she didn't address Lorab's responses so that gives me another ping.

Spoiler: show

Lorab says to BR "No, she is not. If you could make a case on me, so that I can explain my actions and defend myself, please do. If you think you have info on me, it isn't accurate. I'm not bad, and I'd like to be able to defend." BR responds "You've played with me before right? I do not have info or access to info." So we are led to believe that BR's opinion of Lorab is based strictly on Lorab's posts and tone.

In this quote BR indicates that she agrees with Long Con about zebra cursing a member of her own team JJJ.

Spoiler: show

I think you are on zebra's team.

I think you're a crackpot.

I think, especially in a Champions Game, a baddie curser role on the first night would not target someone who they want to silence.

Why does it matter at all that this is a champions game? That's irrelevant.

I believe that zebra targeted her teammate JJJ with the curse, because they saw an opportunity to frame Llama.

That makes no sense. First of all, if that's the strategy then the person being emoji'd has no viable method to pursue that framejob. I couldn't bloody talk! Second, Zebra made no effort herself to pursue that end, and she even pooh-poohed the notion that llama was responsible. Now we know that's because she was responsible. There's no value in trying to frame somebody if it can't actually turn into a case constructed of legible words. People did end up voting for llama, but many of them didn't actually give a reason why. They just did it.

JJJ was very sure that Llama was the one that cursed him.

I absolutely was not "very sure" llama was the one that cursed me. You've made that up. I literally said something else when Zebra herself asked me post-curse:

Cool well as long as llama willfully ignores me I'm gonna go ahead and continue trying to guide him to the guillotine.

Could you clarify why you thought/think that he cursed you?

I don't know whether llama did that. Maybe llama has team mates.

I was a threat to nobody on Night 0, being so vocally detached and lazy as I was. I made exactly one case against someone that was remotely substantive, that being llama. Llama addressed some posts in the general vicinity of that case, but never responded to anything I said. At any point. The next day I was posting in emoticons. Maybe there's a connection. Even if not, his ignorance of me is clearly deliberate at this point and I don't think town llama has any reason to ignore me. I've done nothing to insult him in any prior game, and I have not been a significant part of this game's torrent pace -- so I haven't annoyed him either. All I've done is cast suspicion upon him, both in the form of Night 0 text and Day 1 emojis.

He hasn't given me the time of day. I think he should become dead as soon as possible.

I believe they would try to pull a frame-up job.

Has he even considered that it might be an attempt to frame Llama?

Sure I have. It's not a theory I've viewed as the best theory because llama was so difficult to engage with at all -- multiple long phases of complete ignorance of everything I posted (text or emoji). It's a possibility. So is the idea that llama is on Zebra's team and she used her ability against someone threatening him. That's not at all farfetched.

It's also possible that Zebra cursed me because she could tell I didn't feel like dealing with Mafia and it'd be a fun break from the norm. If that's the case, thanks Zebra. It was fun.

I thought LC's opinion was interesting. This response just made me think he was right.

I don't agree with this opinion of LC's which gives me a slight ping about BR but I also know two civs can disagree with each other on someones guilt.

This is the next quote on the subject. I believe she is talking to JJJ:

Spoiler: show

"To be more specific

calling him a crack pot really attempts to invalidate what he is saying.

So you say you didn't say you were exactly sure (hmmm..) and stated so to Zebra (of all players) but your exact words were "I don't know whether llama did that. Maybe llama has team mates." Problem with that whole process of thinking is that LC DIDN't make that all up, you made it very clear to the thread and it seems you are back tracking now that we all know Zebra cursed you."

And then:

Spoiler: show

*alarm* BR defending LC alert!

In all seriousness though, my thoughts on BR is that she has been way more active than usual, and I've found her contributions generally positive, helpful and unique. I have a moderate town read based on the content. I'm not sure if there is anything to be read into the frequency.

I do genuinely find her defending LC slightly disconcerting, though. Not just because I am slightly suspicious of LC, but also because I think I remember BR saying something like she prefers to stay away from opinions about LC's affiliation. BR, what is it about LC that you think warrants you giving an opinion?

I think I could probably do a rainbow now if I put my mind to it. DH will love that.

That is not all together true. I'm not defending LC. I (at this point of my catch up) didn't think he needed defending. I'm agreeing, and disagreeing with players. Quite different. I hate that if I agree on an opinion LC shares it gets chalked up to BR defending her husband. I think in my 7 years of playing that we have proven otherwise.

I personally have not seen BR defending her husband that I can remember. I tend to think she is genuine in believing his point about JJJ.

BR's thoughts on Tranq: "Tranqs behaviour is starting to give me uncomfortable tingles. When Tranq plays a game he invests himself. If he's not investing in the thread it makes me think he's invested in BTSC." From playing with Tranq i know this is true and I too am having some doubts about him.

BR Question to Hamburger Boy: "Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?" Just shows how she is thinking recently.

Thats the back half of BR's Iso. Though I had two pings one was small and I don't feel like there is enough there for me to vote for her. I could not include every quote but i don't think I left out anything significant. Her latest suspicions I agree with one (Tranq) but disagree with the other (JJJ). I decided back before the first vote that Lorab sounded sincere to me when she answered the questions asked of her so I don't agree with BR there either. After a short rest I will do the front half of this iso that includes all the Lorab stuff.

[juliets]

voted nuclear fallout from war

[thellama73]

Something that's interesting is that you and Lorab had the same number of votes day 1 Llama.

Would what you said about her also apply to you?

Obviously not because I know I am, civ.

A comma would have help this statement go from suspicious lie-detector tricking to a more reasonable read.

Better?

[Long Con]

Something that's interesting is that you and Lorab had the same number of votes day 1 Llama.

Would what you said about her also apply to you?

Obviously not because I know I am, civ.

A comma would have help this statement go from suspicious lie-detector tricking to a more reasonable read.

Better?

What makes you think Wilgy is Civ?

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?

linki: We did! *high five*

Definitely not certain, but I just don't find the case on her compelling. I think Epignosis has been the most thorough and to me looks the most genuine in his case on her, but it's still for tone/wording (sorry Epi in this case they're interchangeable to me ) reasons. Saying "seem" to neutralize an accusation somewhat, and an accusation against someone that flipped town, doesn't ping me super heavy. In the sense that it could show a scum distancing from an inevitable town flip, maybe, but then you could much more easily accuse me of worse, being that I actually defended Rico's early posts and said they looked useful to me. If people stay on LoRab for this, we may as well just do a tally of every player and the number of times they tried to soften an accusation.

Maybe you could update your case on her? I don't think you responded to my points about your case here, only the parts about Jimmy's suggestion of a connection between you and Zebra. Just from general experience, it never seems to be good when the popular early-game candidates just keep getting mentioned over and over, and landslide lynches are almost impossible to get meaningful information from unless it's against scum.

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh, and for the record, just checking LoRab's post history in A World Reborn, she used "seem"/"seemed"/"seems" 6 times just in day 0/1. You could argue that Rico's posts merited use of the word less than the things discussed there, but come on, this + a couple of gut feelings isn't selling me. I mean, people voting for her by all means do so if you still feel it's the best case in the game, but I really don't want to see some mild/tie lead suddenly turn into a 9-vote lead near the deadline again just because of an undercurrent of murmuring and suspicion.

[nijuukyugou]

Well, shit. Sorry, sig.

All of this talk about the end of the world and the universe is both fascinating and depressing. I'll go with meteor impact - quick and least painful? Maybe?

[Turnip Head]

How will humanity as we know it come to an end?

Poll ended at Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:23 pm


Meteor/asteroid impact
5
DharmaHelper (5), MacDougall (10), HamburgerBoy (11), Dom (12), nijuukyugou (27) 19%
Aliens wipe us out
2
Draconus (6), Tranq (20) 7%
Zombie outbreak
4
thellama73 (1), Black Rock (7), Sorsha (9), Long Con (17) 15%
Super volcano eruptions/ natural disasters
4
Metalmarsh89 (14), Boomslang (18), Spacedaisy (24), motel room (26) 15%
Nuclear fallout from war
7
Golden (4), RadicalFuzz (8), timmer (15), Epignosis (16), FZ. (19), JaggedJimmyJay (23), juliets (25) 26%
Gluten (h/d/n)
5
S~V~S (2), MovingPictures07 (3), Turnip Head (13), Typhoony (21), bcornett24 (22) 19%
Total votes : 27

[Turnip Head]

Turnip gnawed at his roots as he pondered his latest problem. He turned to S~V~S. “So, they’re not supposed to know who is killing them, right? That’s like the whole point, they don’t know?”

S~V~S was a patient one indeed. “Yes, that is the point. They’re supposed to try and figure it out.”

“But won’t they know who’s killing them, like they’ll see their faces?”

“Dead men tell no tales, Turnip.”

“Okay, but if I might go meta for a second, we have to write this stuff. How do I write about killers without describing them?”

“Have you ever done this before?”

A lightbulb clicked in Turnip’s head and he sprang to action. “I have an idea. I must consult the dark one.”

*************

Turnip Head approached the throne of his master, quivering slightly. “Master, I have an idea for my mafia game, but I need your help.”

His master sighed. “Listen, I’m balls deep in academic work right now, and I’m about to leave on a trip for Scottsdale, and I’m busy running video game matches of cartoon robots fighting each other. But please, tell me how I can help you.”

“Well, I need to disguise the identities of the players, so no one will know who is who, because I’m told that is the point of mafia. I was told you have some servants who fit this bill. They’re like not real accounts, they’re just disguises. I believe you call them shadowpuppets.”

His master was confused. “Do you mean... sockpuppets?”

“Hmmm, no, I really felt like shadow was the operative word there. Shadowsocks?”

“Ah yes, the shadowsocks, my most powerful minions. Do you need them?”

“Tonight, I need a lot of them.”

**************

And so throughout the night, the shadowsocks were unleashed to do their master’s bidding. Massive shadowy sock-like figures they were, with bulging sock muscles and terrible sock teeth. They approached the champions as they slept.

In RadicalFuzz’s tent, a shadowsock tickled his face with a feather before devouring him whole.

Spoiler: show

RadicalFuzz has died. He was Ghost Illyria, a civilian.
Ghost Illyria - Last Woman Standing
Kills on odd nights, and uses the power of her victims on even Nights. Can choose at any time to give up her kill and permanently gain the power of her victim.

In timmer’s tent, a shadowsock peed on his nightstand before ripping him to shreds.

Spoiler: show

timmer has died. He was Michael Bay, a civilian.

Michael Bay - Film Directors
A hack director known for explosions and getting his way. Every time two baddies are lynched consecutively, Bay may force the game into the Position of his choice. If he is lynched, there will be two Nights in a row. If he is killed at Night, there will be two lynches in a row.

In bcornett24’s tent, a shadowsock contemplated the purpose of its existence, and why this fate had been chosen from him, and the meaning of free will, before tossing bcornett24 into a woodchipper.

Spoiler: show

bcornett24 has died. He was Weather Wizard, a civilian.

Weather Wizard - The Flash
Once in the game, if a player has 6 or more votes, Weather Wizard may end the Day immediately and that player will be lynched.
Once in the game, Weather Wizard may extend a Day phase for an extra 24 hours.
Once in the game, Weather Wizard may end the Night early.

Turnip Head was pleased with the solution to his problem.

It is now Day 3.0. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[HamburgerBoy]

Wait, were these modkills? I'm confused.

[juliets]

Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?

linki: We did! *high five*

Definitely not certain, but I just don't find the case on her compelling. I think Epignosis has been the most thorough and to me looks the most genuine in his case on her, but it's still for tone/wording (sorry Epi in this case they're interchangeable to me ) reasons. Saying "seem" to neutralize an accusation somewhat, and an accusation against someone that flipped town, doesn't ping me super heavy. In the sense that it could show a scum distancing from an inevitable town flip, maybe, but then you could much more easily accuse me of worse, being that I actually defended Rico's early posts and said they looked useful to me. If people stay on LoRab for this, we may as well just do a tally of every player and the number of times they tried to soften an accusation.

Maybe you could update your case on her? I don't think you responded to my points about your case here, only the parts about Jimmy's suggestion of a connection between you and Zebra. Just from general experience, it never seems to be good when the popular early-game candidates just keep getting mentioned over and over, and landslide lynches are almost impossible to get meaningful information from unless it's against scum.

HB are you talking to me? I did respond to the points you made in my BR iso.

oh no I was linkied with the night results. RIP Fuzz, timmer, and bcornett. Three civs down, too many for one night. I look forward to playing with you three again.

[DharmaHelper]

That's a pretty intense night.

[Tangrowth]

Shadowsocks.

[Turnip Head]

Nobody has been modkilled... yet

In unrelated news, bea will be replacing SpaceDaisy. Please welcome bea! She cannot be voted for today.

[HamburgerBoy]

HB are you talking to me? I did respond to the points you made in my BR iso.

No, just Black Rock, although I've already forgotten any points I made involving your BR ISO, so I'll check in on that to make sure I didn't miss anything.

[Long Con]

Oh my! RIP all three of you... three-for-three Civvie killcount last night, that sucks. So Radicalfuzz was the killer of bcornett or Timmer, I assume.

Those shadowsocks were very evil, but I also appreciated the finer points of their personalities. Once unleashed, can the shadowsocks ever truly be contained?

[Long Con]

Also, welcome bea!

Wait, were these modkills? I'm confused.

Baddie kill, Ghost Illyria kill... and some sort of Indy kill? I don't know if the mods would use a shadowsock to modkill someone.

[Long Con]

Also, more references to Positions. Do YOU have Positions in your role?

Probably best to not answer that.

[HamburgerBoy]

So Radicalfuzz was the killer of bcornett or Timmer, I assume.

Based on what? I don't understand any of this shadowsock business, but I see no reason to believe Fuzz was anti-town.

[Long Con]

So Radicalfuzz was the killer of bcornett or Timmer, I assume.

Based on what? I don't understand any of this shadowsock business, but I see no reason to believe Fuzz was anti-town.

Based on this:

RadicalFuzz has died. He was Ghost Illyria, a civilian.
Ghost Illyria - Last Woman Standing
Kills on odd nights, and uses the power of her victims on even Nights. Can choose at any time to give up her kill and permanently gain the power of her victim.

Except I see now that it's an even night, so it wasn't Ghost Illyria after all. My mistake. So yeah... this game is full of death. As you were.

[Long Con]

Maybe Fuzz killed DFaraday then? Maybe DFaraday was a killer role, and Fuzz used that kill last night on bcornett or Timmer?

And, Hamburg, I wasn't saying Fuzz was anti-town - his role kind of says the opposite of that, and I tend to believe it. I was just saying that maybe he thought Timmer or bcornett were baddies, so took them out.

[Long Con]

Argh, never mind. DF was Barry Allen. For some reason I thought we didn't get his role when he died.

[HamburgerBoy]

I just searched and this is the only thread I can find about shadowsocks. I just want to make sure this isn't some kind of exotic role from a previous game or an in-joke or something because I feel like I'm missing something with "I don't know if the mods would use a shadowsock to modkill someone."

[S~V~S]

So yeah... this game is full of death. As you were.

[Turnip Head]

I just searched and this is the only thread I can find about shadowsocks. I just want to make sure this isn't some kind of exotic role from a previous game or an in-joke or something because I feel like I'm missing something with "I don't know if the mods would use a shadowsock to modkill someone."

They're simply a storytelling device. I hoped this would be clear in the context of the post Sorry for the confusion.

[Long Con]

I just searched and this is the only thread I can find about shadowsocks. I just want to make sure this isn't some kind of exotic role from a previous game or an in-joke or something because I feel like I'm missing something with "I don't know if the mods would use a shadowsock to modkill someone."

You've never heard of shadowsocks? Vile creatures, abhorrent to Civilian and Mafia alike to be in their presence. Dark magics were wrought the day they came into existence!

[Epignosis]

Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?

linki: We did! *high five*

Definitely not certain, but I just don't find the case on her compelling. I think Epignosis has been the most thorough and to me looks the most genuine in his case on her, but it's still for tone/wording (sorry Epi in this case they're interchangeable to me ) reasons. Saying "seem" to neutralize an accusation somewhat, and an accusation against someone that flipped town, doesn't ping me super heavy. In the sense that it could show a scum distancing from an inevitable town flip, maybe, but then you could much more easily accuse me of worse, being that I actually defended Rico's early posts and said they looked useful to me. If people stay on LoRab for this, we may as well just do a tally of every player and the number of times they tried to soften an accusation.

Maybe you could update your case on her? I don't think you responded to my points about your case here, only the parts about Jimmy's suggestion of a connection between you and Zebra. Just from general experience, it never seems to be good when the popular early-game candidates just keep getting mentioned over and over, and landslide lynches are almost impossible to get meaningful information from unless it's against scum.

That's not the only reason I suspect Lorab. I also suspect her because Black Rock came out early against her, which I would not expect if Black Rock were bad and trying to set Lorab up. Her suspicion of Lorab would be subtler, and as I said if you are reading the thread and paying attention to people's posts, please take the opportunity to include a number, whether spelled out or not, in your next post- I would appreciate that very much. As I said, if Black Rock is bad and setting up Lorab, I would be surprised, because I don't see her doing that if she is bad.

[Long Con]

*votes Boomslang*

Boomslang was the first vote I cast in the game, as I recall, because he made me suspicious back then:

Spoiler: show

Tranq's slip of calling Finn McMissile mafia (the role was part of a second civ team) is too easily fact-checkable to be intentional, imo.

It wasn't a slip. It was Tranq being a nub. Hence my opening post.

What I'm seeing here is, on the surface, a possible Boomslang-Tranq baddie teamup. That's just surface though, and I don't really think that's what's going on here.

However, my ideal civ-mindset would hold back and wait to see if anyone jumps on Tranq opportunistically, rather than defuse the situation with some textbook "let's not get too finger-pointy" sanity. Short-term "obvious Civ" statements can be long-term "don't worry about me, I'm cooler than being cool" baddie groundwork.

And recently his sig vote twanged me in the twingiest of ways. So, Day 3 starts with a vote on him, foremost of my suspicions.

Never thought too much about it before, but Boomslang is a pretty kick ass handle.

[Golden]

Three civilians in a night?

that is not good.

I wonder if Ghost Illyria is responsible for the death of DF.

And, Bea welcome!

[juliets]

Black Rock ISO con't. part 1

Here are BR's Lorab posts:

Spoiler: show

Now that I have quoted the post deleted the twirls and previewed it I can be satisfied.

Interesting back and forth between Rico and LoRab.

I haven't read the 11 pages before page 20, and I won't be unless I think I missed something important. Ricos posts don't count.

My opinion is all though Rico has been distracting and posting a lot of crap (all the way up to page 8) I don't find him that suspicious. Would he really want that much attention? I was thinking he had a neutral role, if those exist in this game.

He did have a point about LoRabs original post. Seemed easy and even her Matt points were wishy washy at best. Not the best example of LoRabs mafia play. Is she bad? or just not that into it?

I am going to vote for LoRab for now. Her posts reek of her mafia self. I look forward to seeing what she has to say to Epig.

When I was doing this last night it wasn't as apparent to me how few posts there were about Lorab before BR voted her. I now understand why Ham Boy in his post said it appeared she was basing her decision on Epi's case. If that is true, which it appears to be, I don't understand why she just didn't say so which is what I did. There is one compelling point though and thats that BR says "her posts reek of her mafia self". BR has played with Lorab since time began and I tend to trust her read here. When I iso Lorab I'll see if there is anything comparable in what Lorab says.

More Lorab:

Spoiler: show

Ugh. Just got home from a long day at work during which I had no time to mafia--so just read through everything since last night. Waiting for dinner to get here and will then answer the points made about me. In short, I'll say I'm not bad. I have nothing to hide. Eye me all you want. *twirls*

But, yeah, I'll go back and quote posts and make an actual defense when I'm on a full stomach.

Oh good, I've been waiting on you all day. I look forward to seeing what you have to say, the twirl stopped meaning anything to me years ago.

Btw, everyone going after Lorab for her twirl is awkward. Lorab's twirl is fun, IMO, whether she's good or bad. I've never once thought she was good or bad because of it, but it's fun, you meanies!

Good luck making a case on her, then. I'd literally pay money to watch.

She is building the case herself. As far as I'm concerned she is making excuses and avoiding answering anyone's questions or concerns. That sounds like baddie LoRab to me.

Although I enjoyed your twirlaholic funs, LoRab. I'm not impressed that you didn't address anything last night. It's been a long time since I have had such strong baddie vibes from you.

[quote="Black Rock]Now I see you have posted. I have run out of time to give your posts my full attention. When I get home I will read them all.[/quote]

I read your response LoRab (not quoting because it is so huge) you always have a way of making things seem so rational and I usually can be swayed to see things how you see them. I'm going to stick with my gut for today though and vote for you.

I've not had enough time (and won't before poll closes) to catch up over the past few pages but I'll be able to over the weekend and hopefully have some stronger suspicions then.

votes LoRab

That's how I feel. Her responses are so clear and convincing. I have myself questioning my gut. I have been fooled by this LoRab before. I am leaving my vote where it is for right now while I finish my catch up.

I still don't get why you're voting LoRab over me, if I have wasted your precious day of baddie hunting. Has she?

I should explain why I am voting LoRab over you. I think she is bad. I do not think you are. Zebra might be right about you but I still think you are more likely neutral and having fun with it. I find you a distraction but I still like you and if you are good you should be in the game.

AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY

Now I feel bad for voting you.

Actually no I don't.

I just voted for LoRab... because she is bad. I see you have switched your vote to yourself. I hope in my future reads I see a damn good reason.

I'm still on Lorab. I said she cracked under pressure. I applied pressure. She disappeared. When she came back, she was sweet as sugar. I think her twirly behind got the jitters when I called her out so early.

*thumbs up*

If you have a problem with people showing up at the last minute, voting, and then fucking off somewhere else, you have a problem with the people showing up at the last minute, voting, and then fucking off somewhere else.

Yes, I do.

Considering LoRab was hardly even around for day 2, and that most of the case against her seems based on day 0 tone stuff, I think there are more interesting avenues to explore.

Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?

linki: We did! *high five*

As i said before I don't see anyplace where BR addressed Hamburger's points about her. She didn't add anything to the Lorab case but remained steadfast in her opinion that Lorab is bad. This does not make her bad, in fact to my way of thinking she remains consistent. She does have some other people she is looking into so I don't think she's tunneling. The only thing I question is does she have enough to base a "Lorab is bad" case. Her assertion that Lorab "reeks of her mafia self" is the strongest point BR makes about Lorab but is this good or bad? It makes me want to look at Lorab more closely. BR, it might be beneficial for you to address Hamburgers points about you to close that loop and let us know what your reaction is.

[thellama73]

Jesus, that was bloody. RIP, everyone.

[timmer]

rip me!

[Long Con]

Metalmarsh has voted for JaggedJimmyJay without posting, so maybe he's silenced.

That's also a lynch I would be happy to support.

[MacDougall]

3 kills on night 2 is weird. Surely the scum don't have 3 kills on a single night? The flavour makes it sound like one role was responsible for all three kills. What kind of role would be able to kill three people in a single night this early in the game? I've played with the demo man role before but that wouldn't have been able to kill that many people yet.

I wonder if those three players all did something to trigger their demise. I will take a look.

[MacDougall]

Black Rock ISO con't. part 1

Here are BR's Lorab posts:

Spoiler: show

Now that I have quoted the post deleted the twirls and previewed it I can be satisfied.

Interesting back and forth between Rico and LoRab.

I haven't read the 11 pages before page 20, and I won't be unless I think I missed something important. Ricos posts don't count.

My opinion is all though Rico has been distracting and posting a lot of crap (all the way up to page 8) I don't find him that suspicious. Would he really want that much attention? I was thinking he had a neutral role, if those exist in this game.

He did have a point about LoRabs original post. Seemed easy and even her Matt points were wishy washy at best. Not the best example of LoRabs mafia play. Is she bad? or just not that into it?

I am going to vote for LoRab for now. Her posts reek of her mafia self. I look forward to seeing what she has to say to Epig.

When I was doing this last night it wasn't as apparent to me how few posts there were about Lorab before BR voted her. I now understand why Ham Boy in his post said it appeared she was basing her decision on Epi's case. If that is true, which it appears to be, I don't understand why she just didn't say so which is what I did. There is one compelling point though and thats that BR says "her posts reek of her mafia self". BR has played with Lorab since time began and I tend to trust her read here. When I iso Lorab I'll see if there is anything comparable in what Lorab says.

More Lorab:

Spoiler: show

Ugh. Just got home from a long day at work during which I had no time to mafia--so just read through everything since last night. Waiting for dinner to get here and will then answer the points made about me. In short, I'll say I'm not bad. I have nothing to hide. Eye me all you want. *twirls*

But, yeah, I'll go back and quote posts and make an actual defense when I'm on a full stomach.

Oh good, I've been waiting on you all day. I look forward to seeing what you have to say, the twirl stopped meaning anything to me years ago.

Btw, everyone going after Lorab for her twirl is awkward. Lorab's twirl is fun, IMO, whether she's good or bad. I've never once thought she was good or bad because of it, but it's fun, you meanies!

Good luck making a case on her, then. I'd literally pay money to watch.

She is building the case herself. As far as I'm concerned she is making excuses and avoiding answering anyone's questions or concerns. That sounds like baddie LoRab to me.

Although I enjoyed your twirlaholic funs, LoRab. I'm not impressed that you didn't address anything last night. It's been a long time since I have had such strong baddie vibes from you.

[quote="Black Rock]Now I see you have posted. I have run out of time to give your posts my full attention. When I get home I will read them all.

I read your response LoRab (not quoting because it is so huge) you always have a way of making things seem so rational and I usually can be swayed to see things how you see them. I'm going to stick with my gut for today though and vote for you.

I've not had enough time (and won't before poll closes) to catch up over the past few pages but I'll be able to over the weekend and hopefully have some stronger suspicions then.

votes LoRab

That's how I feel. Her responses are so clear and convincing. I have myself questioning my gut. I have been fooled by this LoRab before. I am leaving my vote where it is for right now while I finish my catch up.

I still don't get why you're voting LoRab over me, if I have wasted your precious day of baddie hunting. Has she?

I should explain why I am voting LoRab over you. I think she is bad. I do not think you are. Zebra might be right about you but I still think you are more likely neutral and having fun with it. I find you a distraction but I still like you and if you are good you should be in the game.

AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY

Now I feel bad for voting you.

Actually no I don't.

I just voted for LoRab... because she is bad. I see you have switched your vote to yourself. I hope in my future reads I see a damn good reason.

I'm still on Lorab. I said she cracked under pressure. I applied pressure. She disappeared. When she came back, she was sweet as sugar. I think her twirly behind got the jitters when I called her out so early.

*thumbs up*

If you have a problem with people showing up at the last minute, voting, and then fucking off somewhere else, you have a problem with the people showing up at the last minute, voting, and then fucking off somewhere else.

Yes, I do.

Considering LoRab was hardly even around for day 2, and that most of the case against her seems based on day 0 tone stuff, I think there are more interesting avenues to explore.

Do you have a stake in LoRabs survival? Are you absolutely sure she won't flip bad? I'm not, in fact I think she will flip mafia. I am interested in other avenues though, like JJJ and Tranq. What avenues do you want us to explore?

linki: We did! *high five*

[/spoiler]

As i said before I don't see anyplace where BR addressed Hamburger's points about her. She didn't add anything to the Lorab case but remained steadfast in her opinion that Lorab is bad. This does not make her bad, in fact to my way of thinking she remains consistent. She does have some other people she is looking into so I don't think she's tunneling. The only thing I question is does she have enough to base a "Lorab is bad" case. Her assertion that Lorab "reeks of her mafia self" is the strongest point BR makes about Lorab but is this good or bad? It makes me want to look at Lorab more closely. BR, it might be beneficial for you to address Hamburgers points about you to close that loop and let us know what your reaction is.[/quote]

Thank you for doing these btw.