Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

#2751

Sorsha wrote:No i didnt. I've discussed things and I've discussed players up for vote right now. I've been suspicious of LoRab and I've stated why.

This is in response to fz

#2752

Dom wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Golden wrote: I literally cannot conceive of any game scenario where calling people a civ is detrimental to my chances of winning as a civ.
In a game with multiple mafias, their night kills have a chance of taking out each other, making the civs' jobs easier. If instead they are able to target people they know are civs, that possibility goes away, making the civs' jobs harder. You literally cannot conceive of that? I literally don't believe you.
Why would any Mafia team avoid taking out an opposing voting bloc that also stops them from killing every night?

That's a good question, but I think it happens a lot in the early game. It's usually beneficial for mafias to cut down the number of civilians and wait to go after each other once there is a nice cushion, and then turn on each other in the mid to end-game.. Remember that lynches are still happening, so the presence of a competing mafia acting like mafia makes for good lynch competition. At least that's my experience.

#2753

Voting Jimmy now.

re: golden, people on the llama bandwagon are generally going to be those more won over by Jay than llama; in effect, he's just re-consolidating an old power base with a new target.

#2754

Switching my vote to Lorab because I'm more familiar with the case on her than with Boomslang and because Epi's instincts are usually good.

#2755

FZ. wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
FZ. wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.
If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched
LoRab?
After Sorsha's vote, maybe her?

Just the first in a wave of late drive-bys, I imagine. Doesn't really make me feel anything about Sorsha. I'll go LoRab. Okay really now, sleepy time.

#2756

Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?

#2757

Sorsha wrote:
Sorsha wrote:No i didnt. I've discussed things and I've discussed players up for vote right now. I've been suspicious of LoRab and I've stated why.
This is in response to fz

But right now there are 3 people who have votes. Do you have opinion on any of them? are you interested to see any of them lynched? If not, are you interested to save one of them that might be lynched of you keep your vote that way? Discussing before and discussing now, during the money time are two different things.

linki: Fine

#2758

as for llama - jjj asked and I tend to associate civ llama as death note llama as it was the most recently impactful time he was a civ for me. I agree with your read of the thing between him and golden as feeling genuine on both ends.

Of course, read svs as genuine when she was after golden in recruitment as well and I was wrong about that making svs civ. Still they both read like they are not manufacturing their argument and legitly believe that they are correct in what, to me, has mostly become a pedantic argument.

jjj - you asked about JC's game play earlier. I tend to assocciate her with someone who tries very hard to look at every side of an argument and give every player every chance to defend as possible. I agree with epi that it's not usually JC's style to ISO a player and play that sort of game. If she is doing it to prove something to mac, well, I don't know. I could see it. What I think of as typical JC can often be seen as waffly. I can relate to that as I try to see all sides as well.

I thought your iso on boom was good, but I'm troubled by the ease in which people are ok with it. His curse also puts a wrench into my following along this train of thought atm.

Quiet tranq always makes me edgy, but I think that's more because tranq than quiet. Like LC, he is one I like to keep one eye on all the time and never really 100 percent trust. Even if we are civs. Even in civ bts.

Speaking of LC, he makes some interesting points and I've agreed with some of them. His inter actions with Golden felt particularly good to me. That said, LC.

Oh - lorab. I can confirm that she does buddy to people she percieves as civs when she's bad. She managed to fool LC through most of that game. Then he figured it out and our baddie victory was tossed squarely into his baddie teams hand.

I don't have a lot to go on in developing a read on lorab atm. I have not done any back reading so my impressions are pretty much based on this last phase alone. I would need a lot more time with her.

#2759

I need to go too. I'll go with Lorab

#2760

sorsha - I'm playing catch up - could you explain why you are suspicious of lorab please?

#2761

Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.

#2762

Sorsha wrote:
Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.
So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?

Not really. Just that I'm not really getting a civ Sorsha vibe this game.

Of course, I'm not exactly known as being good at reading you.

#2763

Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.

Pretty disgusting counter-wagon, isn't it? Just when things were getting interesting, it's right back to the same ole.

#2764

Golden wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.
So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?
Not really. Just that I'm not really getting a civ Sorsha vibe this game.

Of course, I'm not exactly known as being good at reading you.

Like last game

So you think I'm playing like I did in a world reborn?

#2765

I have to be honest and say that despite my accusations of Lorab the past day, her response to me seemed a lot more genuine, even if flawed. It made me hesitate.

But if it's between jjj and her, I'll go with her.
It does bother me that both Mac and HB, who know jjj better than us, think he could be bad. Why is that?

#2766

Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.

Do you think some one is being saved? And who?

#2767

Sorsha wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.
Do you think some one is being saved? And who?

Everyone seems to be putting down their guns after pointing them at each other for 48 hours.

#2768

bea wrote:sorsha - I'm playing catch up - could you explain why you are suspicious of lorab please?

Search my in topic posts for lorab

#2769

HamburgerBoy wrote:Voting Jimmy now.

re: golden, people on the llama bandwagon are generally going to be those more won over by Jay than llama; in effect, he's just re-consolidating an old power base with a new target.

That really doesn't answer the reason why Jay would shift from suspecting llama to going after Boomslang.

Jay didn't consolidate anyone around boomslang. It failed.

If Jay was bad, he had literally no reason to shift from suspecting llama, to start seeing him as good. He could have continued to consolidate his 'old power base' around llama and make sure he himself didn't get lynched.

I don't follow your logic at all. I want to understand your vote for Jay but I don't.

@sorsha - on a gut based level, you feel like the sorsha I trusted in world reborn, yes.

#2770

Im thinking JJJ is jenuine. Not gonna vote him today so happy for my vote to help save him maybe.

I think Golden feels good too and

Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

thought Sorsha was ok so not sure why you're anti-her?

#2771

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.
Pretty disgusting counter-wagon, isn't it? Just when things were getting interesting, it's right back to the same ole.

You think that isn't interesting?

#2772

Among the players still to vote: Black Rock (who last said she feels better about LoRab), Boomslang and Tranq, so it should be interesting. Also, has Bloopers posted at all toDay? I don't have her in my spreadsheet as such.

#2773

Ricochet wrote:I want a writer's name, too, once I start ISO'ing.

Rick Coché.

#2774

Ricochet wrote:Among the players still to vote: Black Rock (who last said she feels better about LoRab), Boomslang and Tranq, so it should be interesting. Also, has Bloopers posted at all toDay? I don't have her in my spreadsheet as such.

Enter Tranq.

#2775

Mac, did you see my question in that rush of votes?

#2776

My internet is being wonky as hell, which is a bit ironic, given the content of this post and what’s been discussed about “emotional appeals.” I’m writing this on freaking Notepad while checking the thread on my phone and trying to fix whatever’s wrong with my connection (this means I’m skimming the last few pages because I really just want to post, vote, and eat). Also I’m hungry and, therefore, more irritated than usual with technology. Apologies if this comes off in my writing.

So, some comments about what I’m reading.

I think I’ve seen a couple of comments about how the kills were “weird” and that perhaps a deal was made with hosts to kill those particular people, or that they were modkilled? I will echo the sentiment of preposterousness on this line of thinking. But I don’t think people who said it are bad for saying it. I just wanted to express my incredulity on having this idea at all.

I’m able to look back and understand what’s being said about LoRab a bit better now (I’ve been wondering about the suspicion on her for a while, but am just now getting to it). Very gut-related on BR’s part (although she said she feels slightly better after LoRab’s comments on HB’s buddying up to her), and then tone-based and BR-trust based on Epi’s part, then someone else (this switching back-and-forth from computer to phone is annoying, so some of you may become “someone” unspecific, sorry) commented that she got very defensive at first, then went all IDGAF with the swirly smileys, and has since dropped the hyper-defensiveness. So, it’s tone based, mostly. Possibility. What gets me is BR’s comment that LoRab (who I haven’t played with much, as far as I can remember) does an excellent job of evading suspicion and votes, and is doing just that right now - gets talked about, and then the discussion gets derailed or pulled away to another more noticeable candidate. I’ll come back to this.

llama’s always hard for me to read, but it’s kinda funny to me that Golden jumped on llama for jumping on people for painting Fuzz as SuperCiv and immediately called him bad for it. This comment of llama’s doesn’t make me think he’s bad; rather, I also agree with it, at least in some cases. I (and other even better, more talkative SuperCivs) were NK’ed by baddies in Watchmen; we were put at the top of people’s damned Rainbow Lists early on, and the mafia picked us off one by one. Now, granted, this was a rather inexperienced and disorganized (from what I hear) mafia team, so perhaps it’s only that sort of combination that causes that to happen, but it’s not unheard of, and is one of the reasons why I also don’t like these rainbow lists, at least early on in the game (mostly I just…gahhh how the hell do you even make a prediction of so many people so early?! My eyes…) Anyway, I’m not inclined to think llama’s bad because of saying that. Maybe other reasons that I have yet to look more deeply into, but not that.

I’m finding JJJ to be floundering a bit under pressure. Of course, I said this about sig, and I was so very wrong, but I don’t think I’ve seen this side of JJJ, which makes me think (I’ll go back to that). I think LC’s made good points about him, and JJJ’s especial emotional reaction to two things pings me greatly: a) the accusation of his going after llama for being cursed (which he first backtracked and said he “was absolutely not sure it was llama” when he sure seemed it from his post) and b) the “accusation” that he was using an emotional defense to gain sympathy by saying he’d be gone from the thread (overreaction, for reasons others have said, that what JJJ wasn’t the kind of emotional appeal that JJJ is “morally against,” but rather a way to pull suspicion off of him subtly. Funny, too, that the reaction he’s having to this accusation is a rather emotional appeal). But I’m torn two ways with this. His reactions stand out to me so strongly that I can’t ignore them, but like I said before, I’ve also never seen this before from him. When I’ve played in games with his being bad, he’s rather calm and collected the whole time, which gives me pause, because I feel like I’m going after the easy candidate again like I have the last two lynches.

Aaaaaand since I've been writing this and checking back and forth, the votes have...changed. Quite drastically. Hmm. But the two highest vote-getters (JJJ and LoRab) are people I'm willing to vote, so...Hmm. UGH DAMN YOU PEOPLE I REQUIRE SUSTENANCE decisions decisions...Guess I'll make it interesting, then. I do so enjoy people's reactions when I'm able to get them, and it seems JJJ not as easy a vote as I thought. Let's see what happens.

#2777

I voted Lorab. Don't see any other options. Let's hope it's the right decision. Good night

#2778

Golden wrote:That really doesn't answer the reason why Jay would shift from suspecting llama to going after Boomslang.

Jay didn't consolidate anyone around boomslang. It failed.

If Jay was bad, he had literally no reason to shift from suspecting llama, to start seeing him as good. He could have continued to consolidate his 'old power base' around llama and make sure he himself didn't get lynched.

I don't follow your logic at all. I want to understand your vote for Jay but I don't.

@sorsha - on a gut based level, you feel like the sorsha I trusted in world reborn, yes.

Matt and Draco haven't changed their votes yet, so it's premature to say it failed. In any case, I think an appeal to the middle-ground against someone like LoRab is the easy way to go to move things in a new direction.

Golden wrote:
HamburgerBoy wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.
Pretty disgusting counter-wagon, isn't it? Just when things were getting interesting, it's right back to the same ole.
You think that isn't interesting?

Oh, it will definitely be interesting to see the flip no matter what it is, especially since we've got 3.1 to look forward to, but I was looking forward to something more fresh.

#2779

I like prepping my posts on Notepad/Wordpad as well.

#2780

Ricochet wrote:Dem switcheroos.

LoRab just received four votes in the last 10 minutes.

Yep, Boomslang wagon was spooked. I really think we need to stick to the two main contenders here because all this late day shuffling stinks to high heaven like a mislynch push.

#2781

So now there's no Boomslang votes after everyone seemed to eye each other off about that wagon.

#2782

Golden wrote:
HamburgerBoy wrote:Voting Jimmy now.

re: golden, people on the llama bandwagon are generally going to be those more won over by Jay than llama; in effect, he's just re-consolidating an old power base with a new target.
That really doesn't answer the reason why Jay would shift from suspecting llama to going after Boomslang.

Jay didn't consolidate anyone around boomslang. It failed.

If Jay was bad, he had literally no reason to shift from suspecting llama, to start seeing him as good. He could have continued to consolidate his 'old power base' around llama and make sure he himself didn't get lynched.

I don't follow your logic at all. I want to understand your vote for Jay but I don't.

@sorsha - on a gut based level, you feel like the sorsha I trusted in world reborn, yes.

I reckon the Boomslang push would have worked if HB and I didn't scare all the vultures looking for an easy out into not voting for him.

#2783

juliets wrote:Mac, did you see my question in that rush of votes?

Yes, I do believe Matt is bad, but nobody else does so fuck it. I will be making my vote count but I am waiting to see where to put it.

#2784

LoRab has received six votes in 30 minutes. Tranq has 0 mentions of her and I'm getting slightly pissy at players telling me I should wait for this guy to "warm up his game".

#2785

Golden wrote:
HamburgerBoy wrote:Voting Jimmy now.

re: golden, people on the llama bandwagon are generally going to be those more won over by Jay than llama; in effect, he's just re-consolidating an old power base with a new target.
That really doesn't answer the reason why Jay would shift from suspecting llama to going after Boomslang.

Jay didn't consolidate anyone around boomslang. It failed.

If Jay was bad, he had literally no reason to shift from suspecting llama, to start seeing him as good. He could have continued to consolidate his 'old power base' around llama and make sure he himself didn't get lynched.

I don't follow your logic at all. I want to understand your vote for Jay but I don't.

@sorsha - on a gut based level, you feel like the sorsha I trusted in world reborn, yes.

I think maybe you should go over my posts from early in that game if you have time and refresh yourself because I don't feel like I'm playing anything like that.
I remember you suspecting me early and then trusting me after we interacted. The only difference here is that I suspect you, so now you suspect me. Maybe you should try putting aside the fact that I have a suspicion of you in this game and see how you feel then.... Because this just seems like a no u.

#2786

Ricochet wrote:LoRab has received six votes in 30 minutes. Tranq has 0 mentions of her and I'm getting slightly pissy at players telling me I should wait for this guy to "warm up his game".

Tranq had better post right now if he isn't silenced.

#2787

The fact that Golden, Llama and JJJ all now have their votes on Lorab is absolutely fucked in my view. After what went down today it's completely bullshit.

#2788

HamburgerBoy wrote: Matt and Draco haven't changed their votes yet, so it's premature to say it failed. In any case, I think an appeal to the middle-ground against someone like LoRab is the easy way to go to move things in a new direction.

But Jay didn't shift it to LoRab. Sorsha and I did.

And Matt and Draco are on llama, not Boomslang. I said the push to lynch boomslang failed.

And you still haven't really provided any answer to the fundamental question, which is why JJ wouldn't just look to lynch llama? Why change his opinion on llama in the heat of me coming in with a completely separate case? For me, that is probably about the biggest civ tell you could get...

I mean, baddies set up their suspicions, and then they look good when they stay on target and get them lynched. JJ switched target when voting llama could have been what saved his life.

I really don't get it. I was feigning a greater confidence in JJ than what I had before that, but that choice alone seems overwhelmingly civilian-minded to me.

@Sorsha - no, your suspicion of me has literally zero to do with it. When I engaged with you yesterday, you satisfied me pretty well on that point.

#2789

Ricochet wrote:LoRab has received six votes in 30 minutes. Tranq has 0 mentions of her and I'm getting slightly pissy at players telling me I should wait for this guy to "warm up his game".

Absolutely, this counterwagon is fucked as all get out.

#2790

MacDougall wrote:The fact that Golden, Llama and JJJ all now have their votes on Lorab is absolutely fucked in my view. After what went down today it's completely bullshit.

Heaven forbid that I should be able to both suspect llama and have a suspect in common with him at the same time.

#2791

If JJ is lynched and comes back civ, I'm holding HB and Mac responsible.

#2792

But you specifically said you wouldn't vote for Jay, and Jay said he was cool with a LoRab lynch (I think he had her low on his rainbow too), so the outcome should have been obvious. And Sorsha is one of my least townie reads this game, so that doesn't make me feel any better.

#2793

HamburgerBoy wrote:
Ricochet wrote:LoRab has received six votes in 30 minutes. Tranq has 0 mentions of her and I'm getting slightly pissy at players telling me I should wait for this guy to "warm up his game".
Tranq had better post right now if he isn't silenced.

I may vote for him. I think he needs some votes so he doesnt just float through this game.

#2794

Golden wrote:If JJ is lynched and comes back civ, I'm holding HB and Mac responsible.

If Lorab gets lynched and comes back civ I am holding you responsible.

If you can't see that Lorab getting 6 votes in record time one after another is fucked in all the wrong ways you are confirmed scum and we should CFD you. You fucking know better.

#2795

MacDougall wrote:
Golden wrote:If JJ is lynched and comes back civ, I'm holding HB and Mac responsible.
If Lorab gets lynched and comes back civ I am holding you responsible.

If you can't see that Lorab getting 6 votes in record time one after another is fucked in all the wrong ways you are confirmed scum and we should CFD you. You fucking know better.

Fair cop. If LoRab is lynched, I think I am mostly responsible.

I'm doing it mostly because I think the case on JJ holds no merit at all and I have no idea how he is one of the two people even in the frame.

But its hardly 6 votes in record time. People were discussing and agreeing a mutual target in the thread, and then those people all voted that way. It's not hard to follow. Making it out like its everyone just driving by is highly suspect, in my view.

#2796

HamburgerBoy wrote:But you specifically said you wouldn't vote for Jay, and Jay said he was cool with a LoRab lynch (I think he had her low on his rainbow too), so the outcome should have been obvious. And Sorsha is one of my least townie reads this game, so that doesn't make me feel any better.

The outcome was obvious. It's why I voted LoRab. You think I voted her thinking that the votes wouldn't come in behind me?

I voted LoRab because I feel sure it was the best bet to see Jay survive.

#2797

Golden wrote:I'm doing it mostly because I think the case on JJ holds no merit at all and I have no idea how he is one of the two people even in the frame.

How about JJJ played super safe day 2 when people were considering that he could be Zebra's scumpartner, only got more aggressive day 3 when he really realized his life waas on the line, and made a giant case against Boomslang that didn't hold at all to scrutiny?

#2798

Golden wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Golden wrote:If JJ is lynched and comes back civ, I'm holding HB and Mac responsible.
If Lorab gets lynched and comes back civ I am holding you responsible.

If you can't see that Lorab getting 6 votes in record time one after another is fucked in all the wrong ways you are confirmed scum and we should CFD you. You fucking know better.
Fair cop. If LoRab is lynched, I think I am mostly responsible.

I'm doing it mostly because I think the case on JJ holds no merit at all and I have no idea how he is one of the two people even in the frame.

But its hardly 6 votes in record time. People were discussing and agreeing a mutual target in the thread, and then those people all voted that way. It's not hard to follow. Making it out like its everyone just driving by is highly suspect, in my view.

Speak for yourself. You may have come up with a reason for voting Lorab but FZ, Tranq, Jimmy himself... all tossed their vote on Lorab with barely a thought about doing so and in Tranq's case, not even a comment. Jimmy himself has spent most of the day NOT discussing Lorab, tossed up Boomslang as a desparation counterwagon and has now jumped on yours because he's seeing an out.

#2799

What kind of fuckboy wagon is this?

#2800

In fairness Jimmy's vote for self-preservation is obvious, and FZ at least seemed favorable towards Jimmy prior to the LoRab rush. If Jimmy is scum, though, I think it means FZ was definitely a partner and distancing herself from the Boomslang thing just a little bit, maybe because they thought Boomslang's lynch was going to happen and come back town. Tranq is super massive scum though if he isn't silenced.

Finish It