Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Ricochet]

Internet connection! Stay determined! Don't make me mobile on my phone...

[Long Con]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

Can anyone really answer such a question? What's the purpose of this question?

Just curious I guess. There's no real purpose, just trying to find out more info about the game. Your role was an LMS role turned Civ, Roger Rabbit went from Civ to bad.

[Ricochet]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

Can anyone really answer such a question? What's the purpose of this question?

Just curious I guess. There's no real purpose, just trying to find out more info about the game. Your role was an LMS role turned Civ, Roger Rabbit went from Civ to bad.

No it wasn't. Jacob Donner was a mustached pleb civ I killed in that game. huhuhuuu

There's no real purpose or gain from anyone claiming anything regarding that questions. Former civ roles with different alignment this time won't reveal it, for obvious suicidal reasons. And even former bad/indy roles turned civ this time could be eyeballed. So asking this feels like "baddies pls raise your hand"/witchhunt 101.

[DharmaHelper]

Wait, you guys got roles?

[Ricochet]

Wait, you guys got roles?

Role 2015 GOC: Dharma Helper

You are

Pleb
You need Epignosis dead to win the game.

[DharmaHelper]

Aint that the fuckin' truth.

[Epignosis]

Wait, you guys got roles?

Role 2015 GOC: Dharma Helper

You are

Pleb
You need Epignosis dead to win the game.

DH is losing.

[Long Con]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

Can anyone really answer such a question? What's the purpose of this question?

Just curious I guess. There's no real purpose, just trying to find out more info about the game. Your role was an LMS role turned Civ, Roger Rabbit went from Civ to bad.

No it wasn't. Jacob Donner was a mustached pleb civ I killed in that game. huhuhuuu

There's no real purpose or gain from anyone claiming anything regarding that questions. Former civ roles with different alignment this time won't reveal it, for obvious suicidal reasons. And even former bad/indy roles turned civ this time could be eyeballed. So asking this feels like "baddies pls raise your hand"/witchhunt 101.

I think you're overanalyzing it. As I said, I was just curious to see what people would say.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

1. What civ minded person would participate in the lynching of someone they FULLY ADMIT THEY BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE CIV

In which DH pretends civilian-motivated preferential votes don't exist. "Two people are likely to be lynched. Any other vote would be pointless. I am going to vote for the bigger suspect of the two". This is not outlandish at all and there's no way you really believe it is.

2. What civ minded person says "Sure JJJ *could* be bad, and if he flips bad, don't look at the people that saved him, look at the people that voted to lynch him"

In which DH pretends to be incapable of grasping the an extremely basic concept within FZ's mindset. "If JJJ is mafia and his lynch was prevented by his team, then there was no immediate reason for his team mates to rush collectively to his rescue in the tally instead of some hiding on his own wagon in some mixture or another".

Since I know with 100% certainty that I am not on any mafia team with FZ, I can see her perspective pretty easily. I think DH can too. Instead of truly showing any interest in engaging FZ on her thought process, he just grabs a few points and shits all over them for their surface appearance. This is textbook mafia behavior in my experience (literally, I've done it many times). A failure to think critically and instead just scream about the most obvious shit is not at all civilian and DH looks so much worse than FZ as a result.

None of you may care about my perspective now, but you should after you kill me.

What a joke that is.

I laughed when you didn't make any valid points but presented the invalid ones as loudly as you did.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In which Mac makes himself the authority on meta reading me, and then makes the same erroneous b/s comments about my play he was patently wrong about in Trees Mafia in this game. I don't think he just forgot that I wasn't playing to his perception of my tryhard meta merely one game ago -- he is conscious of it and is still casting this suspicion.

Trees Mafia (in which JJJ was lynched and flipped town):

I would prefer a Diiny lynch over JJJ because I think that JJJ is more likely to be misunderstood (and extremely unlucky) this game, but I'm content with either lynch and I'm willing to switch to JJJ if there's a CFD on a player I'm less confident about than the two currently leading the votes.

I'm the other way. Jimmy is the scummiest player in the game and he hasn't even bothered answering to his sins. For a civilian Jimmy I find that incredibly hard to take. Civilian Jimmy would be supatowning on his phone trying to hunt the real scum in the toilet at this point imo.

Champions 2015 (in which JJJ will be lynched and flip town):

And you're going to sleep on a day where you are looking like a good chance to get lynched and you haven't left us with a legacy post either which is totally unlike you. You've picked a candidate to hang your counterwagon on and expect it will work. That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilian JJJ.

[DharmaHelper]

1. What civ minded person would participate in the lynching of someone they FULLY ADMIT THEY BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE CIV

In which DH pretends civilian-motivated preferential votes don't exist. "Two people are likely to be lynched. Any other vote would be pointless. I am going to vote for the bigger suspect of the two". This is not outlandish at all and there's no way you really believe it is.

2. What civ minded person says "Sure JJJ *could* be bad, and if he flips bad, don't look at the people that saved him, look at the people that voted to lynch him"

In which DH pretends to be incapable of grasping the an extremely basic concept within FZ's mindset. "If JJJ is mafia and his lynch was prevented by his team, then there was no immediate reason for his team mates to rush collectively to his rescue in the tally instead of some hiding on his own wagon in some mixture or another".

Since I know with 100% certainty that I am not on any mafia team with FZ, I can see her perspective pretty easily. I think DH can too. Instead of truly showing any interest in engaging FZ on her thought process, he just grabs a few points and shits all over them for their surface appearance. This is textbook mafia behavior in my experience (literally, I've done it many times). A failure to think critically and instead just scream about the most obvious shit is not at all civilian and DH looks so much worse than FZ as a result.

None of you may care about my perspective now, but you should after you kill me.

What a joke that is.

I laughed when you didn't make any valid points but presented the invalid ones as loudly as you did.

I don't think you understand anything you just said.

[Ricochet]

In which-

[Ricochet]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

What kind of fuckboy wagon is this?

I voted JJJ cause it's clear to me this fucking guy has some ballsy teammates.

What kind of fuckboy wagon is this?

Which one?

Because honestly, I'd agree with you that the JJ wagon is.

Bruh if you can't look at these LoRab votes and see some kind of fuckery, I can't help you.

In which DH acts soooo surprised and perturbed by the LoRab wagon, as if it was somehow inherently more suspicious than the Boomslang wagon or the llama wagon. Again he is only interested in touching the observable surface of the thread and not actually think about anything. It's transparent bullshit.

Spoiler: show

I am taking the position that Tranq is not silenced. I mean, who would silence him he's been silent all game. Now he comes in and votes for Lorab after being in no conversation about the dynamic of this lynch. I am voting him.

Or you could vote for his teammate, for whom your vote is likely to matter more.

Sorsha FZ Tranq confirmed mafia goml

Tranq and Sorsha and FZ and JJJ confirmed mafia

No

Yes tho.

Not posting = not playing tho, and based on seeing Tranq both as a townie and a recruited scum, I can't imagine this is normal for him.

I don't think he was recruited in WR.

Killcruited or whatever right? Wasn't he a zombie recruited by juliets?

Yes he was. I think quiet tranq is normal especially early but I don't like that he voted and didn't post.

Dat teammate distancing tho 1/10

In which DH asserts literally four mafia team mates coordinated a mass exodus from one counterwagon to another for the sole purpose of rescuing me, because apparently my survival is more important to the team's chances than oxygen. This is absolute crap; the kind of suspicion I would expect to see from someone playing in their first or second game ever.

Spoiler: show

Can we all agree that the FZ/Tranq votes both look scummy as fuck? Forget Sorsha and Motel Room for now and just focus on how totally baffling those two votes in particular are. What civ minded person makes those decisions?

Oh, but the motel room vote is cool though. Somehow he doesn't fit into the narrative. That's not arbitrary.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think you understand anything you just said.

Good talk, I'm glad you're so interested in critical thinking. Don't respond to me again unless you have something valuable to contribute.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

FRUIT

uh... tangerines.

[DharmaHelper]

1. What civ minded person would participate in the lynching of someone they FULLY ADMIT THEY BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE CIV

In which DH pretends civilian-motivated preferential votes don't exist. "Two people are likely to be lynched. Any other vote would be pointless. I am going to vote for the bigger suspect of the two". This is not outlandish at all and there's no way you really believe it is.

2. What civ minded person says "Sure JJJ *could* be bad, and if he flips bad, don't look at the people that saved him, look at the people that voted to lynch him"

In which DH pretends to be incapable of grasping the an extremely basic concept within FZ's mindset. "If JJJ is mafia and his lynch was prevented by his team, then there was no immediate reason for his team mates to rush collectively to his rescue in the tally instead of some hiding on his own wagon in some mixture or another".

Since I know with 100% certainty that I am not on any mafia team with FZ, I can see her perspective pretty easily. I think DH can too. Instead of truly showing any interest in engaging FZ on her thought process, he just grabs a few points and shits all over them for their surface appearance. This is textbook mafia behavior in my experience (literally, I've done it many times). A failure to think critically and instead just scream about the most obvious shit is not at all civilian and DH looks so much worse than FZ as a result.

None of you may care about my perspective now, but you should after you kill me.

What a joke that is.

I laughed when you didn't make any valid points but presented the invalid ones as loudly as you did.

Except that's not at all what occured. You were likely to be lynched. Not two people, just you buddy. FZ actively participated in saving you by bussing onto someone she FULL ADMITTED she thought was being genuine. Civs do not bus other civs to save other civs. The math on that does not compute any way you try to spin it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Except that's not at all what occured. You were likely to be lynched. Not two people, just you buddy. FZ actively participated in saving you by bussing onto someone she FULL ADMITTED she thought was being genuine. Civs do not bus other civs to save other civs. The math on that does not compute any way you try to spin it.

Except I absolutely do that all the time. So you're full of shit.

Not all civ reads are the same. Some are stronger.

[Ricochet]

FRUIT

uh... tangerines.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

FRUIT

uh... tangerines.

[DharmaHelper]

Spoiler: show

What kind of fuckboy wagon is this?

I voted JJJ cause it's clear to me this fucking guy has some ballsy teammates.

What kind of fuckboy wagon is this?

Which one?

Because honestly, I'd agree with you that the JJ wagon is.

Bruh if you can't look at these LoRab votes and see some kind of fuckery, I can't help you.

In which DH acts soooo surprised and perturbed by the LoRab wagon, as if it was somehow inherently more suspicious than the Boomslang wagon or the llama wagon. Again he is only interested in touching the observable surface of the thread and not actually think about anything. It's transparent bullshit.

Spoiler: show

I am taking the position that Tranq is not silenced. I mean, who would silence him he's been silent all game. Now he comes in and votes for Lorab after being in no conversation about the dynamic of this lynch. I am voting him.

Or you could vote for his teammate, for whom your vote is likely to matter more.

Sorsha FZ Tranq confirmed mafia goml

Tranq and Sorsha and FZ and JJJ confirmed mafia

No

Yes tho.

Not posting = not playing tho, and based on seeing Tranq both as a townie and a recruited scum, I can't imagine this is normal for him.

I don't think he was recruited in WR.

Killcruited or whatever right? Wasn't he a zombie recruited by juliets?

Yes he was. I think quiet tranq is normal especially early but I don't like that he voted and didn't post.

Dat teammate distancing tho 1/10

In which DH asserts literally four mafia team mates coordinated a mass exodus from one counterwagon to another for the sole purpose of rescuing me, because apparently my survival is more important to the team's chances than oxygen. This is absolute crap; the kind of suspicion I would expect to see from someone playing in their first or second game ever.

Spoiler: show

Can we all agree that the FZ/Tranq votes both look scummy as fuck? Forget Sorsha and Motel Room for now and just focus on how totally baffling those two votes in particular are. What civ minded person makes those decisions?

Oh, but the motel room vote is cool though. Somehow he doesn't fit into the narrative. That's not arbitrary.

I hope you're sitting down.

In which DH acts soooo surprised and perturbed by the LoRab wagon, as if it was somehow inherently more suspicious than the Boomslang wagon or the llama wagon. Again he is only interested in touching the observable surface of the thread and not actually think about anything. It's transparent bullshit.

Yeah you're right I guess looking back on it now, the complete shift in thread momentum with less than an hour and a half to go totally makes logical sense. I can see now how a literal bloc of votes shooting LoRab into first place on the lynch totally has civvie written all over it. Makes complete sense.

If you wanna get a little history lesson, know that I absolutely hate that kind of blatant B.S train bandwagon crap. Look at MP's Avant Guarde mafia for a great example of that, maybe it was AG 2. I saw what I believe (and what the evidence suggests is) a shifty bandwagon forming and pumped the breaks on that shit. Not in my house.

In which DH asserts literally four mafia team mates coordinated a mass exodus from one counterwagon to another for the sole purpose of rescuing me, because apparently my survival is more important to the team's chances than oxygen. This is absolute crap; the kind of suspicion I would expect to see from someone playing in their first or second game ever.

Lol. I dunno what I find more funny, the idea that you think insulting me is going to accomplish....anything? Or the idea that you think Any of the 4 players I mentioned aren't foolish enough to try to save a teammate in such an obvious way.

Oh, but the motel room vote is cool though. Somehow he doesn't fit into the narrative. That's not arbitrary.

Is that what I said? What I said was "Pay particular attention to the most suspicious of the voters, setting aside *****FOR NOW**** the less suspicious."

[HamburgerBoy]

Also, if Jimmy is scum, by doing this they also managed to devalue this narrow gap. If they know the lynch doesn't count, they know that anyone voting for Jimmy could have just as easily been bussing without a worry. It's also therefore expected that someone from Jimmy's scumteam would have been around in the last hour or two as the bandwagons built. The results of this don't make Dharma look good, at least.

How so? Humor me for needing it spelled out like I'm a 3 year old. DH read remarkably well reasoned to me and my new eyes today. (not remarkable for DH - DH is an awesome player- just that I've not always followed his line of thought easily recently and I was shocked at how much what he said made sense to me.)

I'm saying that if Jimmy is scum and was saved by a scummate cancelling the lynch, it means a couple scummates could have easily piled on and voted Jimmy, because they knew the lynch wouldn't count. In effect, it makes it very difficult to get information on who is good and bad on each bandwagon. I'm really starting to consider switching to Mac right now.

When I was upto date I thought she was slightly scumdoodle but I don't remember what triggered that thought process.

I voted JJJ the otherday simply because I agreed with HBB and LC, they are also the civviest to me so far.

What do you think of FZ. Marmot?

Why me? You had me sussed earlier in the game.

[Ricochet]

FRUIT

uh... tangerines.

Was your answer serious? I shall not be asking again, mind you...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll expand on why I felt Burger seemed more genuine. I think his conversation with Golden just prior to and after my lynch evidences a lot of conviction for his suspicion -- to the point that he falls into confirmation bias. I associate that fallacy with town more than mafia, though the potential for multiple mafia teams in this game does lessen that effect some. Examples:

Spoiler: show

But JJ already had suspicion of llama. Why ignore the viable counterwagon that already exists and completely be consistent with JJJ's stated suspicions, instead turning it around in a completely different direction which risks his own lynch more?

I'm not sure I follow that logic from a baddie mindset.

Weaken both wagons a little, so that the new target comes out ahead? Especially since now you publicly said that you'd unvote llama and vote Boomslang just to protect JJJ.

Voting Jimmy now.

re: golden, people on the llama bandwagon are generally going to be those more won over by Jay than llama; in effect, he's just re-consolidating an old power base with a new target.

That really doesn't answer the reason why Jay would shift from suspecting llama to going after Boomslang.

Jay didn't consolidate anyone around boomslang. It failed.

If Jay was bad, he had literally no reason to shift from suspecting llama, to start seeing him as good. He could have continued to consolidate his 'old power base' around llama and make sure he himself didn't get lynched.

I don't follow your logic at all. I want to understand your vote for Jay but I don't.

@sorsha - on a gut based level, you feel like the sorsha I trusted in world reborn, yes.

Matt and Draco haven't changed their votes yet, so it's premature to say it failed. In any case, I think an appeal to the middle-ground against someone like LoRab is the easy way to go to move things in a new direction.

I'm doing it mostly because I think the case on JJ holds no merit at all and I have no idea how he is one of the two people even in the frame.

How about JJJ played super safe day 2 when people were considering that he could be Zebra's scumpartner, only got more aggressive day 3 when he really realized his life waas on the line, and made a giant case against Boomslang that didn't hold at all to scrutiny?

In fairness Jimmy's vote for self-preservation is obvious, and FZ at least seemed favorable towards Jimmy prior to the LoRab rush. If Jimmy is scum, though, I think it means FZ was definitely a partner and distancing herself from the Boomslang thing just a little bit, maybe because they thought Boomslang's lynch was going to happen and come back town. Tranq is super massive scum though if he isn't silenced.

Super safe = he didn't want to step on anyone's toes, and while he posted a lot, he didn't make significant targeted attacks from my viewpoint.

Plenty of possibilities for why he wouldn't vote llama. Maybe llama and Jimmy were partners and forced into bussing because of the circumstances of Zebra's death. Maybe Jimmy worried that if Syndicaters saw a Jimmy-llama tie, that they wouldn't vote for one of their own. Maybe he thought llama interest was dying down, but knew that I was getting more skeptical of Jimmy. Etc.

And Boomslang was hardly a desperate counterwagon, a lot of people were considering him until I came out against it, followed by Mac (whose intent I'll admit I do not trust), and then you bringing up the curse thing. It could have happened.

Also, if Jimmy is scum, by doing this they also managed to devalue this narrow gap. If they know the lynch doesn't count, they know that anyone voting for Jimmy could have just as easily been bussing without a worry. It's also therefore expected that someone from Jimmy's scumteam would have been around in the last hour or two as the bandwagons built. The results of this don't make Dharma look good, at least.

[/quote]

Each of these posts in some way or another shows Burger rationalizing my behavior from a mafia mindset in just about every way he can think of. I think a number of them are too specific to be realistic for anyone, but Burger is often one to generate highly specific theories like these. He's wrong, and Golden was absolutely right about nearly everything he said as the day ended. But I don't read wrongness as malevolent.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Was your answer serious? I shall not be asking again, mind you...

Tangerines are my favorite fruit. This question is strangely ominous.

[Long Con]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

[Ricochet]

Was your answer serious? I shall not be asking again, mind you...

Tangerines are my favorite fruit. This question is strangely ominous.

Ok. Carry on.

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

They'd better.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah you're right I guess looking back on it now, the complete shift in thread momentum with less than an hour and a half to go totally makes logical sense. I can see now how a literal bloc of votes shooting LoRab into first place on the lynch totally has civvie written all over it. Makes complete sense.

If you wanna get a little history lesson, know that I absolutely hate that kind of blatant B.S train bandwagon crap. Look at MP's Avant Guarde mafia for a great example of that, maybe it was AG 2. I saw what I believe (and what the evidence suggests is) a shifty bandwagon forming and pumped the breaks on that shit. Not in my house.

It doesn't have to have civvie written all over it. It has "bangwagon" written all over it, and it's a common component of any active end of day sequence. If your resistance was purely a matter of your perspective, I think you're wrong. I don't get a vibe of resistance from your posts as much as "Haha, these people are doing something that I can easily capitalize on, I'd better start yelling."

Lol. I dunno what I find more funny, the idea that you think insulting me is going to accomplish....anything? Or the idea that you think Any of the 4 players I mentioned aren't foolish enough to try to save a teammate in such an obvious way.

The point is that I don't think you really believe in the points you're making. So it isn't an insult of your ability, it's an assertion that you're full of it. You strike me as a capable player, and that is not a capable suspicion. No, I don't think those players are that foolish individually or collectively -- or me for that matter. I'm supposed to be on their team right? Am I a fool too for allowing that or endorsing it?

Is that what I said? What I said was "Pay particular attention to the most suspicious of the voters, setting aside *****FOR NOW**** the less suspicious."

Great, so it is suspicious? Is motel room also on my mafia team?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

Refer me to the inquiry and I'll give some thoughts.

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah you're right I guess looking back on it now, the complete shift in thread momentum with less than an hour and a half to go totally makes logical sense. I can see now how a literal bloc of votes shooting LoRab into first place on the lynch totally has civvie written all over it. Makes complete sense.

If you wanna get a little history lesson, know that I absolutely hate that kind of blatant B.S train bandwagon crap. Look at MP's Avant Guarde mafia for a great example of that, maybe it was AG 2. I saw what I believe (and what the evidence suggests is) a shifty bandwagon forming and pumped the breaks on that shit. Not in my house.

It doesn't have to have civvie written all over it. It has "bangwagon" written all over it, and it's a common component of any active end of day sequence. If your resistance was purely a matter of your perspective, I think you're wrong. I don't get a vibe of resistance from your posts as much as "Haha, these people are doing something that I can easily capitalize on, I'd better start yelling."

Lol. I dunno what I find more funny, the idea that you think insulting me is going to accomplish....anything? Or the idea that you think Any of the 4 players I mentioned aren't foolish enough to try to save a teammate in such an obvious way.

The point is that I don't think you really believe in the points you're making. So it isn't an insult of your ability, it's an assertion that you're full of it. You strike me as a capable player, and that is not a capable suspicion. No, I don't think those players are that foolish individually or collectively -- or me for that matter. I'm supposed to be on their team right? Am I a fool too for allowing that or endorsing it?

Is that what I said? What I said was "Pay particular attention to the most suspicious of the voters, setting aside *****FOR NOW**** the less suspicious."

Great, so it is suspicious? Is motel room also on my mafia team?

Aren't you supposed to be laying down and taking it today?

[DharmaHelper]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

If you mean the Alignment Question, no I don't think that's fair to discuss. IMO it cuts too close to role/alignment hinting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Aren't you supposed to be laying down and taking it today?

Absolutely not. I'm supposed to be telling DharmaHelper he's mafia-aligned as the guillotine is being set u[, and seconds after my head is removed I might even manage a wink.

[Ricochet]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

Refer me to the inquiry and I'll give some thoughts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets has been a model of carefulness all game long, and has conveyed a desire to communicate with people before she condemns them. When she communicated with me, the results were positive.

Then, with nothing but a meta read from MacDougall, she participates in my attempted murder -- after resisting the case against me consistently before I went to bed.

I am taking the position that Tranq is not silenced. I mean, who would silence him he's been silent all game. Now he comes in and votes for Lorab after being in no conversation about the dynamic of this lynch. I am voting him.

Place it where it matters, vote Jimmy to negate Tranq's vote.

Hmmmm - Mac who has played with Jimmy in over 50 games see's his behavior as scum. I said I wasn't going to vote for JJJ but Mac is pretty persuasive. And I don't mind changing my mind at the last minute so ok - I will negate Tranqs vote by voting Jimmy.

This looks like opportunism. I'd like to hear from juliets before I condemn her though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

Refer me to the inquiry and I'll give some thoughts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

This looks like it would be against the rules, or at least the intended spirit. I say so because of what happened in Economics Mafia when the roles had to be reshuffled and players weren't allowed to even say as much as "I was mafia before and now I'm town".

Hosts?

Sorry if this has already been addressed.

[Matt]

Aren't you supposed to be laying down and taking it today?

Absolutely not. I'm supposed to be telling DharmaHelper he's mafia-aligned as the guillotine is being set u[, and seconds after my head is removed I might even manage a wink.

Rico - What do you think of MM? Nobody is talking about the Marsh Man!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rico - What do you think of MM? Nobody is talking about the Marsh Man!

We could do that. What's your concern?

[Matt]

Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

Is anyone going to pay any attention to the Confirmed Civ? These are dark times, Rico.

Refer me to the inquiry and I'll give some thoughts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

This looks like it would be against the rules, or at least the intended spirit. I say so because of what happened in Economics Mafia when the roles had to be reshuffled and players weren't allowed to even say as much as "I was mafia before and now I'm town".

Hosts?



Kidding, SVS!

Linki - 3J, Marmot is obvi the second baddiest baddie after Epig. Do you get civ vibes from Marmot? I'm still kind of hung up on the "which team" thing. And last night, when ISOing Zeebs, I saw she and MM were frequently having back and forths. Of course, that could've also been Zeebs just buddying up. What do you think?

Sorry if this has already been addressed.

[Matt]

Well that was an unfortunate quoting disaster.

My comments start at my joke towards the host with the "back out of the room" smiley.

Derp.

[DharmaHelper]

It doesn't have to have civvie written all over it. It has "bangwagon" written all over it, and it's a common component of any active end of day sequence. If your resistance was purely a matter of your perspective, I think you're wrong. I don't get a vibe of resistance from your posts as much as "Haha, these people are doing something that I can easily capitalize on, I'd better start yelling."

Patently false. With an hour and a half to go I come into the thread to see that the 3rd place (if even that?) vote option has been propelled into first place, and I'm supposed to do what exactly? Let this spontanious bandwagon lynch someone I don't suspect? Am I supposed to ignore that the votes couldn't be more suspicious if they came attached to confessions? Am I supposed to see Tranq and Motel Room literally vote for LoRab for zero reason and think "Ah heck that's fine." Fuck that noise. End day bandwagons are common components? Maybe where you come from. Where I come from, if someone goes from the position LoRab was in before to the position she was in after, under the circumstances that occured, something's fucked up with that. There is no innocent way to explain that. At all. Zero. None. So when I see that, I'm not going to NOT point it out in the thread, am I? I'm not going to sit quietly and let a civvie get lynched. That's the kind of stunt people pull when they expect no resistance, they expect no one to be in the thread hollering and pointing out the bullshit. Not in my house.

The point is that I don't think you really believe in the points you're making. So it isn't an insult of your ability, it's an assertion that you're full of it. You strike me as a capable player, and that is not a capable suspicion. No, I don't think those players are that foolish individually or collectively -- or me for that matter. I'm supposed to be on their team right? Am I a fool too for allowing that or endorsing it?

I mean you can back track all you want but you literally said that I was playing as if this was my first game, which is word for word an insult of my ability. Which is not going to have any effect regardless, because I'm a grown ass man, but it speaks I think to the veracity of what you're saying that "Neener neener" is affixed to the end of just about everything you say.

[img]Great,%20so%20it%20is%20suspicious?%20Is%20motel%20room%20also%20on%20my%20mafia%20team?[/img]

I wouldn't be shocked if any or all of them flipped bad alongside you. Or if they flipped bad independent of you. Their votes were clearly not civ minded.

[Matt]

And "Sorry if this has already been addressed" is part of 3J's original quote.

Derp a derp.

[DharmaHelper]

Oops on that last quote :/

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Linki - 3J, Marmot is obvi the second baddiest baddie after Epig. Do you get civ vibes from Marmot? I'm still kind of hung up on the "which team" thing. And last night, when ISOing Zeebs, I saw she and MM were frequently having back and forths. Of course, that could've also been Zeebs just buddying up. What do you think?

Sorry if this has already been addressed.

I didn't find the "which team" thing suspicious. I thought he was just asking me a little pressure question for the sake of doing it. I do think his interactions with Zebra were suspicious -- much of the WIFOM looks too blatant to be accidental. He did answer to that accusation decently when I presented it to him though. Do you have any more recent concerns about him? I think he's a mild suspect, but I couldn't give you much more without a more substantive case elapsing the full game.

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm going to try and re-analyze what could have happened. First, the fundamental assumption:

1. Jimmy almost certainly didn't realize he was building a case against someone cursed (Boomslang). If he did, then it would mean risking that someone (golden in this case) would discover the curse, which would definitively kill the wagon.
2. Assuming Zebra's team doesn't have a second curse-caster, it means the person that cursed Boomslang was not on Jimmy's team.
3. Therefore, if Jimmy is scum, it means he is either on Zebra's team, or some kind of smaller third-party team/indy thing.

I feel about 99% confident about the above, because it would be a big waste when Jimmy could have just as easily cased some other quieter poster, or doubled-down on LoRab to start things off, or stuck with llama, or whatever else.

Now, a few points of consideration:

1. If Jimmy is on Zebra's team and stopped that lynch, it didn't buy him much time, and surely they'd know it. If that team only had a single lynch stop, it would seem wasteful to use it now rather than later. If Zebra's team wanted bussing points, they would have cashed that check on the first lynch (especially since the cancellation voids bussing points even if Jimmy does flip scum today).
2. If Jimmy (of any alignment) isn't on Zebra's team, why would the other scum team stop the lynch? If the other team had a strong feeling that Jimmy could/would survive a narrow lynch, then
a) LoRab was protected by scummates
b) The other team seriously feared another day/night cycle of Jimmy enough to guarantee a huge anti-Jimmy landslide
c) The person stopping the lynch feared immediate 3.5 retribution for a town Jimmy flip
Noting those three aren't mutually exclusive.

The thing that really throws a wrench into all of it is if a civvie canceled the lynch just because they trusted Jimmy and/or LoRab. Even if that is the case, and it very well could be because both alternatives above seem a little weird to me, it would mean that it's fallacious to suspect Jimmy because it failed. It also means that whoever stopped the lynch was working solo, however, which would mean the votes cast during 3.0 still hold value (i.e. scum didn't know the lynch would be cancelled), which is a good thing.

I really want someone to tell me what parts of the above they buy/don't buy. I'm far from sold that Jimmy is 100% scum, and taken all together I think Mac could easily be on the team responsible for stopping the lynch.

[Turnip Head]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Roger Rabbit was not a scum in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, so the fact that Duncan was civ is irrelevant.

My role was a Civ role in the game it came from, and it is a Civ role now. How many people have received a role whose alignment is different from the original game it came from? Is this a dangerous question to ask?

This looks like it would be against the rules, or at least the intended spirit. I say so because of what happened in Economics Mafia when the roles had to be reshuffled and players weren't allowed to even say as much as "I was mafia before and now I'm town".

Hosts?

Sorry if this has already been addressed.

I'll refer you to two relevant rules:

*No reproducing or paraphrasing host PMs, or direct discussing of night results or of if you were targeted or with what.
*This game is closed set up. This allows for limited role claiming. But be careful about that, and do NOT involve other people in your claim.

We're not going to stop anyone from saying "I have a civ role", and we're not going to stop anyone from saying "My role was civ in another game", either.

[Golden]

Hb I don't buy that Jj was on zebras team. Possible but unlikely.

Sorry posting from phone only now. Very few, short posts. I would still prefer not to lynch jj, but also recognise at some point that if opinion is so determined in one direction, it may need to happen just to move on. Under protest, from my perspective.

[HamburgerBoy]

My thoughts don't require Jimmy to be on Zebra's team. What do you think about the alternatives?

In which DH acts soooo surprised and perturbed by the LoRab wagon, as if it was somehow inherently more suspicious than the Boomslang wagon or the llama wagon. Again he is only interested in touching the observable surface of the thread and not actually think about anything. It's transparent bullshit.

I have to side with DH on this one. I think it was inherently more suspicious because she was being mentioned as a minor case since early in the game, and I had definitely warned about that long before the LoRab wagon suddenly built. By day 3 it was seemed it had fizzled out, Epi still on it but most people looking elsewhere, and then suddenly it happens all over again with almost no new discussion. Granted, Sorsha had been a major voice against LoRab as well, and golden was at least transparent in his reason for moving things there, but beyond that it was definitely on the shady side. For a player like DH, who may not know how often we have rapid lynch changes like that on RYM, I could especially see his suspicion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll refer you to two relevant rules:

*No reproducing or paraphrasing host PMs, or direct discussing of night results or of if you were targeted or with what.
*This game is closed set up. This allows for limited role claiming. But be careful about that, and do NOT involve other people in your claim.

We're not going to stop anyone from saying "I have a civ role", and we're not going to stop anyone from saying "My role was civ in another game", either.

Oh hey, I can claim my role.

I was immune to my first death, lynch or night kill. I tried to evade the lynch because stopping a night kill is much more productive. I knew if this happened I'd just get lynched again and here we are. Oh well, ship's sailed. I also thought talking about this would be taboo before, I'm not used to having this freedom here.

Now stop theorizing about crazy things. There's your answer.

[DharmaHelper]

Are you fucking kidding me right now.

[Ricochet]

lolololololol