Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Ricochet]

Questionne for everyonne:

Right now, if you could name a player you find most civvie but could potentially backstab you, who would that player be?

[Long Con]

Question(s) to the thread:

Who was it that first brought up the idea of Roger Rabbit corrupting the Kubrick flip? Who ran with that thought process?

That was not me, I never thought that made much sense.

Who was it that first theorized that there was only one baddie team?

I believe I have theorized this before. I don't know if I was first to do so. I also thought that a post from S~V~S seemed to hint at multiple teams for the baddies. I feel like something recently made me think one big baddie team was a possibility again, but I don't remember what made me think that. I think there are probably two baddie teams, but I don't think it matters very much what the setup is, if we're not going to know a thing until the game is over.

[Long Con]

Questionne for everyonne:

Right now, if you could name a player you find most civvie but could potentially backstab you, who would that player be?

My answer is you, Ricochet. This idea is pretty much guaranteed to be unpopular, but wouldn't it be diabolical to make a role like yours that has a Seemer element, in that your Day 1 lynch reveals you as a Civvie when you are actually a baddie, with continued BTSC with the other baddies?

I only think of these things because I tend to be an evil host like that when I can, and I think it's important to consider all possibilities.

[Ricochet]

Questionne for everyonne:

Right now, if you could name a player you find most civvie but could potentially backstab you, who would that player be?

My answer is you, Ricochet. This idea is pretty much guaranteed to be unpopular, but wouldn't it be diabolical to make a role like yours that has a Seemer element, in that your Day 1 lynch reveals you as a Civvie when you are actually a baddie, with continued BTSC with the other baddies?

I only think of these things because I tend to be an evil host like that when I can, and I think it's important to consider all possibilities.

Well...heh.

[Ricochet]

Oh, I also totally misinterpreted DH's question! I probably was the one who asked if Kubrick's role (powers) could be read as civvie just as much as they show up to be bad, but that was about it. I never implied Kubrick is actually the corrupted role (character).

[Sorsha]

I've always wanted a dolphin army

I see what you guys are saying about positions 1 & 4 though. I'll be around to change to 4 around poll close if it loses the lead or becomes tied.

I'd just like to have a dolphin army

[nijuukyugou]

Hmm, quite a result. Yay for getting rid of a killer!

I'll go with sexy people. Those are important on a deserted island

[S~V~S]

Black Rock stood at the edge of the clearing, watching all of her tiny little friends flutter about her head. Her eyes opened wide as,one by one, they shared their secrets with her. She knew that with their help, she could help bring the civvies to a big win!

She heard a voice call her, and she said, "Shhh! My friends, you must wait here". She looked over her shoulder,deeper into the woods. One of her friends said, "You shouldn't go alone! Take this!" and flew into her hand. She laughed, and placed it gently onto a flower.

"I will be fine, fear not. I shall return to you."She straightened her glass helmet and headed off.

They watched her head off into the forest, the clearing at their backs. They worried she was headed the wrong way, but she had picked her way through dangers before.



Days had turned to night and back to day again when they left to go look for her, but they never did find her.

Black Rock has been killed

She was:

Spoiler: show

Captain Olimar - Pikmin CIVVIE
Each Night, Olimar receives clues to a pikmin's location on the website. The more pikmin that he gathers, the more powerful Olimar becomes. Pikmin disappear once their ability is used by Olimar. Once Olimar dies, any Pikmin not gathered by Olimar can be found by anyone. Olimar will not be told what each pikmin does until he finds them, and some pikmin will gain power if used in conjunction with each other.

It is Day 5
You have 48 hours to avenge her.

[Long Con]

[juliets]

Damn. BR you provided a significant opinion about Lorab being bad and we all owe you for that. RIP and I look forward to playing with you again soon. The good news about this NK is there was only one kill, not that one kill is acceptable but at least it wasn't 2 or 3. But why BR?

[MacDougall]

RIP Black Rock. That role sounds super fun.

That result strongly indicates that we've ridded ourselves of those responsible for the additional two kills each night which is a positive.

[Long Con]

Hosts: Do failed nightkills show up in nightposts?

[DharmaHelper]

RIP BR

Placing my vote on JJJ.

[S~V~S]

Hosts: Do failed nightkills show up in nightposts?

Yes, they would show up. Not how they failed, or who tried to kill whom. But there would be a bit like, "X bent over to pick up a penny as the bullet flew over his head" type of thing.

[S~V~S]

[Marmot]

RIP Black Rock. That role sounds super fun.

That result strongly indicates that we've ridded ourselves of those responsible for the additional two kills each night which is a positive.

[Dom]

Looks like Epi and Llama were the ones killing.

Rip BR

[Long Con]

Let's not forget that HBoy's death was most likely by his own hand.

[Sorsha]

Voting for jjj

RIP BR

[Dom]

Let's not forget that HBoy's death was most likely by his own hand.

True... I forgot that.


Anyway.... LC, you thinking JJJ?

[bea]

RIP BR. Yet again you are taken too soon from a game I get to play. QUIT DOING THAT BADDIES!! :(

[Dom]

RIP BR. Yet again you are taken too soon from a game I get to play. QUIT DOING THAT BADDIES!! :(

Bea, since you're around-- who do you suspect?

[Long Con]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

[bea]

Ugh - I knew someone was going to ask me this soon.

I honestly could go back and forth on most players. It's easier for me to name who I don't suspect than who I do. Rico is likely ok (I don't think our hosts are as evol a host as LC, but I admit I could be wrong there.) I think Sorsha is ok - I think FZ is ok. DH has read oddly sypmatico to my thoughts this game which makes me want to trust him. Motel room feels like he is trying but working under time constraints which I get. Draconus feels like he's working under the same constraints and he's a tricky read regardless.

I've not seen enough of bad JC to make a call, but I get why people think she might be bad. Same reasons people think I could be bad. Looking back at vote history makes some tough calls in hindsite for sure, Just not sold that she's bad vs in a tough spot as a civ ya know?

LC, JJ, You, Marshy - are all completely capable of snowing me and with the exception of JJ have. At least once. I lean civ on you and jj - I'm not sure about lc and marshy at all. That's my preconcieved notions at play though more than anything.

mac feels like he's mostly in it for he luls - but he feels like that regardless.

tranq I really think was just bored at the beginning of the game. Kid is hard to amuse. srrsly. He's posting now more in content and I'd like to see more from him before I make up my mind.

ninja is a hard read for me too as she is always in terminal catch up mode. I get that too. I spend 90 percent of every game there. I think her vote for lorab helps her alot. Still not convinced there aren't 2 baddie teams.

Matt seems oddly quiet. not sure at all what I think of that.

everyone else is just kinda a ? for me.

linki - you are right - your stance on jj is pretty clear - if not him, where else would you look and why?

[Dom]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

[Sorsha]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

Maybe he has a team helping to reign in his aggressiveness this game?

I don't know if "aggressiveness" is the right word for it. His "Matt-ness" maybe?

[bea]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

I prollly effed up my phrasing. I'm sorry - I'm cooking dinner and hot toddying the FUCK out of my cold.

If there are two baddie teams, bloopies could be on the other baddie team.
If there is only one team, the she's likely good. Same theory as with sorsha and BR (the last of which we know was civ)

[Sorsha]

RIH LLama.

FZ - I was thinking that you were most likely Golden's Monopoly play buddy. But if that were true, then why the never ending defense of 3J? I don't think I've played with a civ LC since I came back for Mafia, but he seems pretty legit to me in this game. I think it's odd that he's simply asking people to talk about his case, and now people are calling him bad.

bea - Do you believe Sorsha/BR to be good this game?

Voting for Dolphin Army

Why are you asking Bea specifically about me?

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

Why are you asking LC specifically about me?

I have no problem with anyone looking at me/my posts, questioning me, whatever. But two players asking the same exact question about me to two different, specific players has my spidey sense tingling.

[bea]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

Maybe he has a team helping to reign in his aggressiveness this game?

I don't know if "aggressiveness" is the right word for it. His "Matt-ness" maybe?

That's a fair point.

That said, last time I was bad with matt, there was no containing his matt-ness. And also that was pre-his absense and return to the games. Like way back during homestar runner which was the first game that got me into the first champs game.

I'm sure he's grown and changed since then, just still....he's not quite to his meta and not quite talking about why he isn't. Can't figure out what's up with him yet.

As to why he asked me specifically about you? IDK - TBH - I thought he was asking me to gage my civness more than throw shade on you shorsha.

[Sorsha]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

I would agree.

LC, where do you stand on Sorsha? I'm neutral on her right now, but her name was brought up before and quietly has faded (discussion of her, not her).


Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

If you're not convinced ther aren't 2 baddie teams... then why is ninja's vote for LoRab good for her?

Maybe he has a team helping to reign in his aggressiveness this game?

I don't know if "aggressiveness" is the right word for it. His "Matt-ness" maybe?

That's a fair point.

That said, last time I was bad with matt, there was no containing his matt-ness. And also that was pre-his absense and return to the games. Like way back during homestar runner which was the first game that got me into the first champs game.

I'm sure he's grown and changed since then, just still....he's not quite to his meta and not quite talking about why he isn't. Can't figure out what's up with him yet.

As to why he asked me specifically about you? IDK - TBH - I thought he was asking me to gage my civness more than throw shade on you shorsha.

Why would asking you about me gauge your civness?

[Sorsha]

Or maybe it should be "How would asking you about me gauge your civness?"

[bea]

Or maybe it should be "How would asking you about me gauge your civness?"

dunno -matt's mind is matt's mind. But if I were to guess, it was because you came out so hard on lorab and I I was so resistant to it since it was my day 1 and 2.

And also - not sure yet still if there are two mafia teams. I think he was testing me to see if I'd pursue you being bad.

Of course, I can totes be wrong about that.

It was just the vibe I got when i read his questions.

[Ricochet]

RIP BR. Guess you weren't a confirmed baddie.

So do we have any Pikmin left to gather?

[Ricochet]

Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

Couldn't we say the same thing about you?

[Ricochet]

Oh look, early votes again on JJJ. Much exciting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

Which of my rebuttals did you find believable and reasonable?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm looking at players other than jjj today I think. I was feeling better about him yesterday and I'd hate to lose him if he's a civ.

Voting for jjj

What changed?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EBWOP

I'm looking at players other than jjj today I think. I was feeling better about him yesterday and I'd hate to lose him if he's a civ.

Voting for jjj

What changed?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Metalmarsh has gradually compiled the most damning case against me I've ever seen as the game has progressed:

The more I think about it, JJJ reminds me of my teamie back in Syndicate Mafia, who couldn't muster past 100 posts overall in the whole game. He could be bad after all. His unwillingness to lynch Zebra is food for thought.

Exactly!

I think Jimmy might be bad this game.

CFD JaggedCrypticJay

Metalmarsh here is the question I asked you. Note that I am not asking the same questions you already answered. I'm wanting to know what was in your head when you picked the word "which" when you framed the question.

MM, your question to him was "which team do you think he is on?". That sounds like you not only know there are two teams (i know you responded to this already) but that you knew what the team names were. What made you use the word "which"? And what did you expect in return from JJJ that would be an example of "which"? I hope you understand what I am asking. If not, let me know.

Sorry I never responded juliets. I've been playing much of this game so far on my phone, and just must be missing posts.

Anyway, to answer your questions.

• 1) I have no idea how many teams there are. That was an intentional "slip" to see how folks responded.
  2) I did not know that the mafia team(s) have names. Your suggestion of that is very suspicious imo. I did not imply that I knew it either.
  3) I expected Jay to be far more aggressive in his response, since the number of mafia teams is unknown, and I implied that I knew how many there were. Then again, Jay was acting apathetic before I asked the question, so I don't know what to make of it. Different Jay =/= mafia Jay.

And to add, Matt did propose the same case that you did, that I slipped, and must be mafia. But he took a pretty hesitant approach to it. The Matt I remember from Talking Heads would have dogged me all day and all game over something like that.


Juliets, where did you get the idea that the mafia team(s) have names?

No wonder Zebra was having the most fun observing my emoji frustration. :P

Should be some great opportunities for finding her team mates. She was highly vocal.

JaggedJimmyJay

I found one such instance. I don't know if this is enough to say that she was having the most fun with your emoji frustration.

Also, JaggedJimmyJay.

MM, tell me why you keep voting JJJ, first thing every Day, or I can't help you.

I have a gut feeling that he's mafia.

I also like seeing the poll and voting early.

When I was upto date I thought she was slightly scumdoodle but I don't remember what triggered that thought process.

I voted JJJ the otherday simply because I agreed with HBB and LC, they are also the civviest to me so far.

What do you think of FZ. Marmot?

All I've been able to take so far is that this is a different FZ than I saw in Pikmin. FZ never wavered in her stances in the thread, and played an excellent game. Then again, Pikmin was a much lower activity game, and FZ has also subbed in after this game started.

But I believe Jay is mafia.

And this raises some new questions. To be continued.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I never noticed this before. It's a huge crock.

Metalmarsh here is the question I asked you. Note that I am not asking the same questions you already answered. I'm wanting to know what was in your head when you picked the word "which" when you framed the question.

MM, your question to him was "which team do you think he is on?". That sounds like you not only know there are two teams (i know you responded to this already) but that you knew what the team names were. What made you use the word "which"? And what did you expect in return from JJJ that would be an example of "which"? I hope you understand what I am asking. If not, let me know.

Sorry I never responded juliets. I've been playing much of this game so far on my phone, and just must be missing posts.

Anyway, to answer your questions.

• 1) I have no idea how many teams there are. That was an intentional "slip" to see how folks responded.
  2) I did not know that the mafia team(s) have names. Your suggestion of that is very suspicious imo. I did not imply that I knew it either.
  3) I expected Jay to be far more aggressive in his response, since the number of mafia teams is unknown, and I implied that I knew how many there were. Then again, Jay was acting apathetic before I asked the question, so I don't know what to make of it. Different Jay =/= mafia Jay.

And to add, Matt did propose the same case that you did, that I slipped, and must be mafia. But he took a pretty hesitant approach to it. The Matt I remember from Talking Heads would have dogged me all day and all game over something like that.

Juliets, where did you get the idea that the mafia team(s) have names?

Marsh, you asked me which team I thought llama was on. How in the world would that provoke an "aggressive" response from me? Why would you ever have any reason to expect that? This reads to me like a complete b/s excuse for asking a filler question that drew a lot of suspicion to you.

You're bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Placing my vote on JJJ.

I expect returns on this pledge with plenty of time to spare for me to discuss it:

It's all WIFOM, but that's all I can give you in response to a case built around someone else's role.

That's HARDLY the crux of LC's suspicions against you.

He built a case earlier in the game based upon my treatment of llama, and I've already thoroughly addressed that. Now it's about the revealed Kubrick role, LoRab's revealed role, and my survived lynch. Those are all facts in this game, they cannot be disputed. I can only dispute the assumption that Kubrick's ability and my survival were not related -- something that cannot be done substantively or in an evidence-based way. I can only provide WIFOM based upon the truth of my mindset in this game and as a player. Whether anyone believes me isn't something I can control.

What else has he stated against me that you'd like to see me address? If it can be addressed I will do so. My time is very limited tonight, but I highly doubt I'm gonna die so I'll get around to it eventually.

T'was my understanding of LC's suspicion that the Kubrick reveal was just another tick in the evidence column, not that he's "built his case around it." I'm definitely going to revisit his earlier points and take a look at your posts myself in advance of this next lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MM taking full advantage of his meta for WIFOM:

Voted LoRab for no reason.

You know what, I think Rico wants to be lynched.

I don't think we should give that to him. Discuss.

You voted zebra and I followed. That was the only vote ever placed on a confirmed baddie during this phase. I'm sorry if that's the best I could do.

Put yourself in my shoes (wash your feet first, tho) and tell me what I should do right now. Vote properly and achieve a 1 vote on a confirmed baddie. Much achievement. You're a notorious self-voter. And known to like apples. Discuss.

Zebra is confirmed town though.

You know what, I think Rico wants to be lynched.

I don't think we should give that to him. Discuss.

You voted zebra and I followed. That was the only vote ever placed on a confirmed baddie during this phase. I'm sorry if that's the best I could do.

Put yourself in my shoes (wash your feet first, tho) and tell me what I should do right now. Vote properly and achieve a 1 vote on a confirmed baddie. Much achievement. You're a notorious self-voter. And known to like apples. Discuss.

Zebra is confirmed town though.

The fark he is.

I can confirm that in my proffesional mafia opinion, a2thezebra is civilian, I do declare.

That idea's worth noting, Mac. HamburgerBoy has replaced juliets on my list of the six to potentially be killed by me. Killed. KILLED.

linki - I'm not claiming to know how you play in general, only how you have played recently. Which is not this. Or at least, it wasn't.

linki - stop stop stop lemme post ugh

Confirmed town.

You better kill me tonight baddies because I'm hella motivated now.

Are you talking to me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Voting Dom so I can see the poll without clicking the dang button. Also I think he's bad.

[DharmaHelper]

Placing my vote on JJJ.

I expect returns on this pledge with plenty of time to spare for me to discuss it:

It's all WIFOM, but that's all I can give you in response to a case built around someone else's role.

That's HARDLY the crux of LC's suspicions against you.

He built a case earlier in the game based upon my treatment of llama, and I've already thoroughly addressed that. Now it's about the revealed Kubrick role, LoRab's revealed role, and my survived lynch. Those are all facts in this game, they cannot be disputed. I can only dispute the assumption that Kubrick's ability and my survival were not related -- something that cannot be done substantively or in an evidence-based way. I can only provide WIFOM based upon the truth of my mindset in this game and as a player. Whether anyone believes me isn't something I can control.

What else has he stated against me that you'd like to see me address? If it can be addressed I will do so. My time is very limited tonight, but I highly doubt I'm gonna die so I'll get around to it eventually.

I like LC's cases on you and your responses to them/me have felt like you are bad. The only other trains I would jump on are MM and Tranq

T'was my understanding of LC's suspicion that the Kubrick reveal was just another tick in the evidence column, not that he's "built his case around it." I'm definitely going to revisit his earlier points and take a look at your posts myself in advance of this next lynch.

[Long Con]

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

Which of my rebuttals did you find believable and reasonable?

The latest one, where you said you are confident in your ability to wriggle out of a lynch, so you wouldn't ask Lorab to make it Position 1, possibly denying teammates the chance to explore other Positions Of Power. That sounds both believable and reasonable.

[Long Con]

I also support a Metalmarsh lynch. That guy gets to la-dee-da his way through the game with crap, while Black Rock catches a baddie on Day 1 and gets executed for it?

[DrWilgy]

Who all has placed votes on you LC?

[Dom]

Bea, I also think Matt has been quiet. Maybe he's trying something new?

Couldn't we say the same thing about you?

I didn't indict Matt with my post. I just made an observation.

Anyway, that doesn't make sense either because you're saying I'm classic baddie game.

Voting Dom so I can see the poll without clicking the dang button. Also I think he's bad.

Also he isn't bad and any vote for me would be hugely bad for the Civs.
If I were bad why would I endorse your plan to lunch either Llama or myself? Why wouldn't I condemn it and just hop on a counter train?

TBH you don't have much reason to think I'm bad other than my interactions with Lorab. I don't think that is something that baddie Dom would do. Many of the cases against me have been NO Us and rather vapid.


Do not lunch me. I am a civ and am trying my best.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also he isn't bad and any vote for me would be hugely bad for the Civs.
If I were bad why would I endorse your plan to lunch either Llama or myself? Why wouldn't I condemn it and just hop on a counter train?

It's a valid question and it's one I'm considering. I don't think it's out of the question for a baddie to do what you've done in that scenario, though I did think it was less likely than the way llama responded to it (we've affirmed I was wrong about llama).

TBH you don't have much reason to think I'm bad other than my interactions with Lorab.

That's a great reason to suspect anyone. Interactions with confirmed mafia are the bread and butter of my Mafia strategy.

I don't think that is something that baddie Dom would do.

That could be. What specifically have I asserted in my analyses do you feel you wouldn't do as a baddie?

Many of the cases against me have been NO Us

Mine is not. Do not assert that it is, because that's plain wrong.

and rather vapid.

I've felt the same way about your suspicion of me for essentially the entire game. Well, I've felt that way about all suspicion of me the entire game until the more recent fact-based case built around the Kubrick drama. That's easier to understand.

[Marmot]

LC, JJ, You, Marshy - are all completely capable of snowing me and with the exception of JJ have. At least once. I lean civ on you and jj - I'm not sure about lc and marshy at all. That's my preconcieved notions at play though more than anything.

Do you want to build a snowman?