Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[FZ.]

Two more things:

1. Mac asking Sorsha to "protest" vote with him, when we were lynching one of his teammates- motel room. Note that Sorsha voted for motel room the day after when MM already had 5 votes and motel room only 2.
2. On day 10, If I was bad and had vote manipulation, why did motel room end up getting lynched that day? Wouldn't I make sure he was saved? Do you not believe that I left for the day? Anyone who has ever played with me here knows that on Friday early afternoon (my time), I close my computer and don't check in until Saturday. I voted and didn't know what went on from there on.

[FZ.]

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

[FZ.]

Two more things:

1. Mac asking Sorsha to "protest" vote with him, when we were lynching one of his teammates- motel room. Note that Sorsha voted for motel room the day after when MM already had 5 votes and motel room only 2.
2. On day 10, If I was bad and had vote manipulation, why did motel room end up getting lynched that day? Wouldn't I make sure he was saved? Do you not believe that I left for the day? Anyone who has ever played with me here knows that on Friday early afternoon (my time), I close my computer and don't check in until Saturday. I voted and didn't know what went on from there on.

The first point refers to day 9, where she protest votes with Mac for Drac. Then, on day 10, she votes for motel room.


Also, Matt, Sorsha said in the previous day she thinks it's you and Mac. By killing Bea she hoped I would think you did it and we'd all vote you. What would I have to gain from NK Bea when she was my top suspect? She wasn't Sorsha's was she? Another way to make us trust her more. And if I'm right, it means they actually did target her and saved her at the same time

[Matt]

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

Fuck it. I'll temp vote Sorsha until MM returns with his thoughts.

Given how one of our hosts says silencing is his least favorite game mechanic, I'm finding it hard to believe that Sorsha is silenced at LYLO when there hasn't been a silenced person all game (again, as far as we know).

[FZ.]

One last thing, I think we can all agree Sorsha wasn't really being Sorsha this game. A lot of people said it more than once. We just let her slip for various reasons. Stupid us.


linki: Thanks Matt. I swear you won't regret it!!!!!

[Matt]

Also, UNLESS bea did target me last night, I have NO IDEA how it's even possible that Sorsha is silenced. Only MM knows what I mean, but wtf.

[Ricochet]

DAY 6

Wilgy... cautious about MM's newtclaim, but won't vote for him; (either banter or for real) counter-vouches to Boom that LC is good; misses out on vote
motel... zero farks given
Mac... votes Matt for JJJ legacy; suss's Boom; calls LC civ; suss's Juliets, Dom, Boomslang; banter with Matt; resuss's Tranq; calls FZ. civ; changes read on Dom to civ; pinged by Draconus, votes him; save LC movement

-----

FZ... vexed by LC's suss on her; criticises Dom for asking reasoning from his hunters; sees LC and Dom in bad light together; wary of Boom's claim; doesn't like DH's contribution drop; considers LC vote, even at the risk of NO U; does so; hmm, something about JJJ's vote value; further clarification; keeps suss and vote on LC
Matt... vexed by Mac's vote; pits LC vs. Mac; misses out on pretty much everything else!
Sorsha... HB talk; suss's juliets; drops vote on LC

===

Well this is better stuff to analyse. Confirmed baddies either wanted nothing to do with LC being lynched, most likely because they knew who he was based on Wilgy having had BTSC with him. Doesn't mean they weren't cheeky about it, too. Two out of three derped on voting, Mac "fought" for his save. Such nobility. Also trend is pretty much kept @ Mac covering all bases, whilst others covering little to none.

Now... what would the fourth have chosen. FZ's Day 6 would look like sticking her head in the oven, the way she attacked, distrusted and ultimately helped LC get lynched. She has interesting roleclaims, that I finally think I notice. Matt would look good taking a fighting stance against Mac (they've been adversarial before), but then, lol, that activity cut-off just makes you wonder... was he the third derper in the team. Sorsha could get the point out of the three, because she looks most non-committal, with a vague, pointless suss on juliets (seriously, why did people have to go back at juliets all the time). Then again, she voted LC, with no strong background; which is a pretty awful move, given the other three baddies' moves seeming slightly more careful.

Dunno what verdict to give here, but I think it's a Day worth revisiting. Will anyone please effing do that?! I'm dying here in my own ISO sweat.

[Ricochet]

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

Fuck it. I'll temp vote Sorsha until MM returns with his thoughts.

Given how one of our hosts says silencing is his least favorite game mechanic, I'm finding it hard to believe that Sorsha is silenced at LYLO when there hasn't been a silenced person all game (again, as far as we know).

I know you like making these crazy connections, but Hosts' dislike for something and them creating a silencer, that could, in principle, silence someone on Lylo Day has little to nothing to do with each other. What, you're suggesting SVS or TH simply forbid the player to silence anymore on Lylo? Well, what has the silencer done until now, then?

Also, don't resort to outside meta. Keep it in this game or in relevant meta from past games, not from "what's your favourite mafia pasttime" forums.

[Ricochet]

If Sorsha is indeed the last baddie, I still get MVP for bottom scumreading her, like a thousand years ago, right?

[FZ.]

I can't believe we're at this point. I wanted to trust you because like I said to you when we lynched Mac, I didn't want to vote you, but you coming into this day so sure of yourself and being so stubborn made me think there's no way you could be a civ and you were just trying to frame me. I thought it would come down to me or you. I'm so glad you're considering this, and if you're the baddie, I will hunt you down. I can't wait for endgame to learn what you think you know about Sorsha.

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.
linki 2: You can get whatever you want as long as we win.

[Ricochet]

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.

Yeah, ok, you do that. I don't have the vote priviledges (or pressure), I can only provide assistance and this is what I choose to do. You are the actors in this endgame.

Granted, if I reach the end of these reads and there's something I can interpret in yours and Matt's stances, claims, pleads, I'll do so.

[Marmot]

Actually, more importantly than Sorsha being silenced is that she hasn't voted yet.

Makes me think she's waiting until day's end.

[FZ.]

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.

Yeah, ok, you do that. I don't have the vote priviledges (or pressure), I can only provide assistance and this is what I choose to do. You are the actors in this endgame.

Granted, if I reach the end of these reads and there's something I can interpret in yours and Matt's stances, claims, pleads, I'll do so.

Fair enough. I would still like your thoughts on who we should lynch.

[FZ.]

Actually, more importantly than Sorsha being silenced is that she hasn't voted yet.

Makes me think she's waiting until day's end.

I think there's a good reason for it.

[Ricochet]

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.

Yeah, ok, you do that. I don't have the vote priviledges (or pressure), I can only provide assistance and this is what I choose to do. You are the actors in this endgame.

Granted, if I reach the end of these reads and there's something I can interpret in yours and Matt's stances, claims, pleads, I'll do so.

Fair enough. I would still like your thoughts on who we should lynch.

The last baddie, please.

If you're not going to use my recap to, on one hand, defend (or redefend) your stance and faults or, on the other, focus on which of the other two looks the worse, then resort to what you're already doing, figuring out via live talk what to do.

linki: Which is?

[Marmot]

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

Fuck it. I'll temp vote Sorsha until MM returns with his thoughts.

Given how one of our hosts says silencing is his least favorite game mechanic, I'm finding it hard to believe that Sorsha is silenced at LYLO when there hasn't been a silenced person all game (again, as far as we know).

I know you like making these crazy connections, but Hosts' dislike for something and them creating a silencer, that could, in principle, silence someone on Lylo Day has little to nothing to do with each other. What, you're suggesting SVS or TH simply forbid the player to silence anymore on Lylo? Well, what has the silencer done until now, then?

Also, don't resort to outside meta. Keep it in this game or in relevant meta from past games, not from "what's your favourite mafia pasttime" forums.

Well I doubt they would let that be a result of a nightpoll option. Having that role in the game is one thing, but randomly punishing someone to be silenced at this stage would be rude and unlikely.

[FZ.]

I tried reading your recap. It just confuses me more. It's not like I can really get something from it. For me, everything can be viewed in many ways. All I have to rely on is my gut and the best way for it is to talk to people live, which is what I was doing with Matt.

Am I really allowed to spell it out loud? I think I left enough crumbs.

[Marmot]

On the other hand, a silencer would balance out zebra's curse-type role to give both baddie teams a similar type role ability.

[Matt]

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.

Yeah, ok, you do that. I don't have the vote priviledges (or pressure), I can only provide assistance and this is what I choose to do. You are the actors in this endgame.

Granted, if I reach the end of these reads and there's something I can interpret in yours and Matt's stances, claims, pleads, I'll do so.

Fair enough. I would still like your thoughts on who we should lynch.

Seconded.

Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switcheroo?

[Marmot]

But if there actually is a silencer, it's not Matt, and it's not FZ either.

[Matt]

Lol. I thought FZ was quoting MM there.

But sure, Rico can answer as well, if he wishes.

[Ricochet]

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

Fuck it. I'll temp vote Sorsha until MM returns with his thoughts.

Given how one of our hosts says silencing is his least favorite game mechanic, I'm finding it hard to believe that Sorsha is silenced at LYLO when there hasn't been a silenced person all game (again, as far as we know).

I know you like making these crazy connections, but Hosts' dislike for something and them creating a silencer, that could, in principle, silence someone on Lylo Day has little to nothing to do with each other. What, you're suggesting SVS or TH simply forbid the player to silence anymore on Lylo? Well, what has the silencer done until now, then?

Also, don't resort to outside meta. Keep it in this game or in relevant meta from past games, not from "what's your favourite mafia pasttime" forums.

Well I doubt they would let that be a result of a nightpoll option. Having that role in the game is one thing, but randomly punishing someone to be silenced at this stage would be rude and unlikely.

Ah ok, I get that. Yes, I probably wouldn't insert such night power effects for a subsequent lylo phase. Heck, sometimes in previous games (prolly THM), I even remember pleading with whoever had such powers to consider taking a break from them, near endgame, as to not accidentally inflluence the outcome in a random, negative way.

linki:

Am I really allowed to spell it out loud? I think I left enough crumbs.

w.h.e.r.e. (I mean, besides Day 6. Already picked up on that)

linki:

On the other hand, a silencer would balance out zebra's curse-type role to give both baddie teams a similar type role ability.

Fair enough.

linki:

Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switcheroo?

Could sound fair enough. Then again, zebra could not have canceled out Dom's power, if Dom could only read the "description" (this hasn't been confirmed or debunked and prolly never will). So a godfather in the opposite mafia would make this particular team stronger than zebra's.

Also, same answer I gave to FZ. You don't have anything to take out of my reads, you just do you.

linki:

But if there actually is a silencer, it's not Matt, and it's not FZ either.

Ah, so Sorsha silenced herself.

[Ricochet]

I just don't get a silencer that never silenced. If it were motel, I'd understand, but it can only be one of three active players. What's the point in never using that throughout an entire game?

[Marmot]

Sorsha silencing herself is a conclusion I came to. If it is a baddie role power (which is possible), it has been recognized around these parts that such a power is not very useful for baddies, especially because baddie teams tend to silence themselves to excuse themselves for talking for a day phase. It's going out of style. That would be a reason as to why no one has been noticeably silenced this game.

[Marmot]

^^^Post #8,000 wotwot.

[Ricochet]

Sorsha silencing herself is a conclusion I came to. If it is a baddie role power (which is possible), it has been recognized around these parts that such a power is not very useful for baddies, especially because baddie teams tend to silence themselves to excuse themselves for talking for a day phase. It's going out of style. That would be a reason as to why no one has been noticeably silenced this game.

You can silence civs. Or y'know, people not you or your team, in general.

^^^Post #8,000 wotwot.

TH record still safe though.

[Marmot]

Sorsha silencing herself is a conclusion I came to. If it is a baddie role power (which is possible), it has been recognized around these parts that such a power is not very useful for baddies, especially because baddie teams tend to silence themselves to excuse themselves for talking for a day phase. It's going out of style. That would be a reason as to why no one has been noticeably silenced this game.

You can silence civs. Or y'know, people not you or your team, in general.

^^^Post #8,000 wotwot.

TH record still safe though.

True.

What if Jay was simultaneously silenced and smiley-cursed on the same day?

[Ricochet]

Sorsha silencing herself is a conclusion I came to. If it is a baddie role power (which is possible), it has been recognized around these parts that such a power is not very useful for baddies, especially because baddie teams tend to silence themselves to excuse themselves for talking for a day phase. It's going out of style. That would be a reason as to why no one has been noticeably silenced this game.

You can silence civs. Or y'know, people not you or your team, in general.

^^^Post #8,000 wotwot.

TH record still safe though.

True.

What if Jay was simultaneously silenced and smiley-cursed on the same day?

He would then have had to shaddap Not being allowed to post trumps not being allowed to write actual words, methinks.

[FZ.]

Does anyone really believe she was silenced at this point?

[Matt]

Does anyone really believe she was silenced at this point?

Again, unless bea targeted me, I'm having serious doubts she was.

[FZ.]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

[Matt]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

That's what I'm thinking. bea thinks I'm the last baddie and targets me, my power gets redirected, and then and only then, is it possible Sorsha is even silenced.

[Ricochet]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

That's what I'm thinking. bea thinks I'm the last baddie and targets me, my power gets redirected, and then and only then, is it possible Sorsha is even silenced.

So you're the silencer or wtf am I reading?

[Matt]

Rico - No, I'm not the silencer. And no, you're not supposed to know what I mean, FZ either. Only MM. Sorry that's the way it's gotta be.

[FZ.]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

That's what I'm thinking. bea thinks I'm the last baddie and targets me, my power gets redirected, and then and only then, is it possible Sorsha is even silenced.

So you think she could potentially redirect your power and you would target yourself? Because if not, if you're going to kill, what does it matter who you kill? Why target you?

[Marmot]

Just processing the events that took place last night.

FZ is bad: It does not make sense for FZ to kill bea. She couldn't have killed Sorsha (double-targeting), but she had Matt and myself as options. Bea was the easy lynch choice going into today. Why would she put her own credibility on the line and nightkill the obvious lynch choice? Had she successfully killed myself or Matt, and bea was lynched, then this game would be almost over. FZ has hinted at her role already, so the silencing of Sorsha goes unexplained.

Matt is bad: If he is, I believe he would have killed bea, because he knew he had no other option. But unfortunately, this does not explain the Sorsha silencing phenomenon either.

Sorsha is bad: This is not an unlikely scenario. Before Sorsha survived the nightkill, she was taking heat. Her survival gave her a lot of cred. But one thing we have to remember now is that Mac was a Protector role, and I don't see another obvious reason that Sorsha survived. Like FZ, bea was not her only night kill option. She could have targeted anybody else and let bea get lynched. But there is her silencing today, which doesn't seem right. For all we know, there could be no silencer role, and she's faking it. Either way, it just doesn't look good for her, because she is the only one who could be a silencer if there is one.

[Marmot]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

That's what I'm thinking. bea thinks I'm the last baddie and targets me, my power gets redirected, and then and only then, is it possible Sorsha is even silenced.

How in the world could you silence someone though? Bea would redirect your ability, not an ability targeted at you.

[Ricochet]

Rico - No, I'm not the silencer. And no, you're not supposed to know what I mean, FZ either. Only MM. Sorry that's the way it's gotta be.

Tranq a conjuring. Never playing a game with you ever again.

linki:

[quote="MM'"She couldn't have killed Sorsha (double-targeting)"[/quote]

wot

[Marmot]

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

I doubt it. She spammed the off-topic forums last night, which is a tell-tale sign of a player being silenced.

She also posted in the Arkham signups last night too.

[Marmot]

Rico - No, I'm not the silencer. And no, you're not supposed to know what I mean, FZ either. Only MM. Sorry that's the way it's gotta be.

Tranq a conjuring. Never playing a game with you ever again.

linki:

[quote="MM'"She couldn't have killed Sorsha (double-targeting)"

wot[/quote]

Sorsha was targeted for nightkill Night 10. So she couldn't be targeted again Night 11.

[Ricochet]

Nvmd. Yeah, I could sort of see protect+NK, then silencefake shenanigans piling up a bit too much on Sorshy's side.

Granted, if she does break out of silence and speak, she's as good as dead right now.

linki: yeah I said nvmd, if you would only LET ME POST

[FZ.]

I think we solved it, but if you need to discuss more, then go ahead. I know I'm not bad. I want to believe Matt is good too. The only reason I was that suspicious of him in the first place was his sureness and unwillingness to look at more angles. Since he's done that, and everything he's saying in addition, I think we made the right decision.


linki: MM, while Sorsha could kill anyone else as well, she said she thought Matt was the last baddie, not Bea, so killing Bea would make her "right" on Bea and give more credit to the notion Matt is bad because Bea was suspicious of Matt.

Let me post

[Matt]

Matt is bad: If he is, I believe he would have killed bea, because he knew he had no other option. But unfortunately, this does not explain the Sorsha silencing phenomenon either.

That's not true. I mean, I completely understand what you mean by "no other option" obviously, but check it. If I were bad, I think it's likely I would've targeted you. You then think "It can't be Matt cuz he knows what I got", and then you use your extra ability on someone other then me the following night, after bea is lynched.

Again, I didn't kill bea. Nearly everyone in thread was saying it was either me or bea that's the last baddie. To take her down would be suicide if I were bad.

Linki - Good call, FZ. That makes way more sense then me killing bea. Seriously.

[FZ.]

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

[Marmot]

I think we solved it, but if you need to discuss more, then go ahead. I know I'm not bad. I want to believe Matt is good too. The only reason I was that suspicious of him in the first place was his sureness and unwillingness to look at more angles. Since he's done that, and everything he's saying in addition, I think we made the right decision.


linki: MM, while Sorsha could kill anyone else as well, she said she thought Matt was the last baddie, not Bea, so killing Bea would make her "right" on Bea and give more credit to the notion Matt is bad because Bea was suspicious of Matt.

Let me post

Well, that is a good point.

This coupled with Sorsha's late contributions. Even after she became confirmed-civ, she didn't have much to offer.

Also, I checked and nobody was silenced on Day 1. So methinks Sorsha is faking it (or the hosts gone and pulled a fast one on us).

[FZ.]

Can I go to sleep soon or will crazy stuff happen when I'm gone?

[FZ.]

Let's just say that if Sorsha comes in after I go to sleep then she sure as hell is going to say I'm the baddie...

[Ricochet]

Hosts: can a baddie send in the kill and also perform its usual ability, during a Night phase?

[Marmot]

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

Yes, because reasons.

If he's bad, he would have been a fool to try to nightkill you or myself last night, which is why the kill choice points to him.



But this silencing bizness Matt is talking about, I don't understand. He says I should, but I don't.

[Marmot]

Oh, and I believe that if is Sorsha is civ and actually silenced, she would have placed her vote on her top suspect already. She has not done that yet.

Being silenced is one thing. Being silenced and vote-blocked at this stage would be fucked up.