Arkham Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Bass_the_Clever]

Not to mention that I and others already have clarified that you were misunderstanding my game during that game but you're still under the impression that I'm known for lynching low posters anyway, when that's not the case at all.

Who are the others?

[a2thezebra]

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

[Bass_the_Clever]

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

They said something this game?

[Bass_the_Clever]

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's because you said "I was a baddie that game" that's what stuck out the most.

[a2thezebra]

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

They said something this game?

No, in Star Wars. They pointed out (MM before my flip, and MacDougall after my flip) that you were suspecting me for invalid reasons, even though you were right about my alignment.

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's because you said "I was a baddie that game" that's what stuck out the most.

I get that (at least I think I do), and I'm asking why you find that suspicious, why that stuck out.

[Bass_the_Clever]

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

They said something this game?

No, in Star Wars. They pointed out (MM before my flip, and MacDougall after my flip) that you were suspecting me for invalid reasons, even though you were right about my alignment.

But like I said, my response was only meta-based because your suspicion was meta-based. Why is me pointing out being a baddie in that game to explain why I find your logic in suspecting me for differing from that game flawed suspicious to you?

linki - Metalmarsh, for one. I think some others did too, perhaps MacDougall.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's because you said "I was a baddie that game" that's what stuck out the most.

I get that (at least I think I do), and I'm asking why you find that suspicious, why that stuck out.

Because people who point that out usually bad.

[a2thezebra]

In that case I think I understand what you're saying but you don't understand what I'm saying. The only reason I pointed out that I was bad in that game was because I feel that it was strange of you to suspect me for differing from a game where I was bad. Also, I don't see why responding to a suspicion based on meta with more meta is suspicious. How else would I respond to it?

[juliets]

Bass, what data or information have you got to support that people who point that out are bad?

linki zebra

[Bass_the_Clever]

In that case I think I understand what you're saying but you don't understand what I'm saying. The only reason I pointed out that I was bad in that game was because I feel that it was strange of you to suspect me for differing from a game where I was bad. Also, I don't see why responding to a suspicion based on meta with more meta is suspicious. How else would I respond to it?

Look I'm done talking about this. We are just going in circles.

[a2thezebra]

In that case I think I understand what you're saying but you don't understand what I'm saying. The only reason I pointed out that I was bad in that game was because I feel that it was strange of you to suspect me for differing from a game where I was bad. Also, I don't see why responding to a suspicion based on meta with more meta is suspicious. How else would I respond to it?

Look I'm done talking about this. We are just going in circles.

If you say so.

[juliets]

If you are still around bass I would appreciate an answer to my question before you go.

[S~V~S]

How would someone be able to bring up stats to back up an opinion like that? While I don't agree that that is always bad, I do know that a lot of people believe it since I know *someone* always says that to me when I contrast my bad and good games.

Do you suspect Bass for thinking this?

[Bass_the_Clever]

If you are still around bass I would appreciate an answer to my question before you go.

What question ?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Bass, what data or information have you got to support that people who point that out are bad?

linki zebra

I don't have data I just have past experience.

[Black Rock]

I'm way late to the game, And it's not going to get better till tomorrow. I'm at work and then going to work and I'm already exhausted. I missed the day 0 vote but I'll catch up to vote this lynch.

[Enrique]

Zebra seems fine to me for the most part but I'm concerned by the way she just suddenly decided to "play ball."

[juliets]

How would someone be able to bring up stats to back up an opinion like that? While I don't agree that that is always bad, I do know that a lot of people believe it since I know *someone* always says that to me when I contrast my bad and good games.

Do you suspect Bass for thinking this?

No I don't suspect him for saying that. I'm just questioning a broad sweeping statement that seems like it would be hard to back up. I've played a lot of mafia and I couldn't say that I've experienced that most people are bad who compare themselves to their baddiness in another game. Since he's saying zebra is bad because of it I would expect there to be something else behind the assertion. But thats not enough to suspect him.

[DharmaHelper]

Bizarro am ready to talk about his location.

[juliets]

Zebra seems fine to me for the most part but I'm concerned by the way she just suddenly decided to "play ball."

Enrique I don't understand what you mean by the way she suddenly decided to "play ball". Can you say a little bit more about that?

[Enrique]

With sig, re: location info. She vocally opposed it but then as soon as sig begins dropping info she joins in? I'm confused and I don't understand it.

[Enrique]

btw they loved me

[a2thezebra]

I vocally opposed town as a whole doing it, not me doing it.

linki - Awesome!

[Enrique]

Okay Zebra I had your back through the whole Matt thing but that doesn't make any sense to me. Aren't you the town?

[Enrique]

I understand the distinction between me the townie and the whole town, but what are you trying to achieve? Isn't that the direct opposite of what you wanted?

[Glorfindel]

I see Glorfindel and TheFloyd are here. Any current thoughts, gentlemen?

Indeed.

[Scotty]

Glad some people are giving the low post thing thought. But let me be clear- I will be voting for no-posters before low posters. That would be lovedelic right now unless he posts before EoD.

Let me make it clear right now that I refuse to support the lynch of a low poster.

Why?

Because in my experience that has never benefited the civ cause. Not once.

Do you think it is more common for the mafia to push for lynching low posters or to defend low posters?

It depends on the situation. You could have some mafia wanting to defend a low poster that they know is civ if everyone's going after them, and you can have some mafia wanting to lynch low posters if no one's going after them so that they can't really be blamed for the low posters flipping civ since there wasn't that much content to misinterpret. In a game like this with multiple factions and a ton of indys there's no telling, but in any case I don't think a low poster lynch will be beneficial. I think we want to go those who are talking more so that if we get a mafia there, we'll have lots of content to look for connections and create a domino effect for dead baddies. A low poster lynch, even if it's not a mislynch, only helps us with numbers slightly and always leaves us at square one for the scumhunt.

Okay I agree with you here, if a low poster has said something slightly suspicious then sure I'd be down for lynching them, but if they haven't it is a waste imo. If the player is completely inactive and never post they will either be mod killed or replaced so say lynching none posters is a waste.

I seem to remember Scotty pushing this in past games regardless of alignment?

@Scotty if you could choose which low poster got lynched today which one would it be and why?

Equivocant is the only person I won't vote for day 1, because I think he's new here and I ain't gonna crack an egg before it's ripe.

Everyone else is fair game. Will look closer at them if lovedelic doesn't show.

[MacDougall]

But lovedelic is also new.

[a2thezebra]

I understand the distinction between me the townie and the whole town, but what are you trying to achieve? Isn't that the direct opposite of what you wanted?

I feel like based on Epi's wording of what the consequences for talking about the map will be, it will be potentially harmful to the individual discussing it and not to their cause in the long run. So because I strongly suspect that sig has ulterior motives for encouraging discussion about the map and what's being investigated, I figure playing ball with him by telling him what I know might produce something to chew on for town as a whole later. Does any of that make sense?

[a2thezebra]

It's hard to talk about it explicitly because part of my playing ball with sig involves him not knowing what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm going to go walk my dogs and purchase some potato wedges. I will return later.

[a2thezebra]

Not knowing what I hope to achieve with it, I should say.

[sig]

It's hard to talk about it explicitly because part of my playing ball with sig involves him not knowing what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm going to go walk my dogs and purchase some potato wedges. I will return later.

You should play ball with it to (the dog). Also I call into question her buying potato wedges who actually buys those things.

@Scotty I'd disagree with lynching lovedelic they simply might not be aware the game has started, so lynching them day 1 would be kind off mean?

@Glorfindel two questions. What do you think of zebra and what do you think of map discussion?

[Glorfindel]

I'm null on Glorfindel right now, but have been pinged by him.

Have you now, my friend? Whilst I may not be familiar with the playstyles of a lot of people in this game, I am with yours. By you own admission (on multiple occasions) you have stated that you prefer to play Mafia and feel that you perform far better in such roles. From my experience, that is undeniably true. Looking to a recent example (Pikmin Mafia) where you were a Townie your performance was awful leading you to an early lynching that game. I'm not getting those vibes from you this game - I feel a pervading sense of self-assurance about your posts that concerns me a little. I'm not quite sure what to make of you persistent push to discuss the map... I'd be curious about other's opinions on Sig's posts so far.

[S~V~S]

btw they loved me

Yay!

I'm null on Glorfindel right now, but have been pinged by him.

Have you now, my friend? Whilst I may not be familiar with the playstyles of a lot of people in this game, I am with yours. By you own admission (on multiple occasions) you have stated that you prefer to play Mafia and feel that you perform far better in such roles. From my experience, that is undeniably true. Looking to a recent example (Pikmin Mafia) where you were a Townie your performance was awful leading you to an early lynching that game. I'm not getting those vibes from you this game - I feel a pervading sense of self-assurance about your posts that concerns me a little. I'm not quite sure what to make of you persistent push to discuss the map... I'd be curious about other's opinions on Sig's posts so far.

Sig gets lynched day one like all the time. So far you are maybe the 4th person to bring him up as suspicious and it is only halfway through the day. I think this looks like civ sig to me :P

[Scotty]

But lovedelic is also new.

The biggest distinction here is that lovedelic has not yet exhibited the desire to play, where at least Equiv has. Though barely.

Also lovedelic is not new to Mafia. I played a game with him on RYM. I don't know Equiv's deal.

[Glorfindel]

It's hard to talk about it explicitly because part of my playing ball with sig involves him not knowing what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm going to go walk my dogs and purchase some potato wedges. I will return later.

You should play ball with it to (the dog). Also I call into question her buying potato wedges who actually buys those things.

@Scotty I'd disagree with lynching lovedelic they simply might not be aware the game has started, so lynching them day 1 would be kind off mean?

@Glorfindel two questions. What do you think of zebra and what do you think of map discussion?

I thought my previous posts would have made my opinions about Zebra quite clear. That said, I've read more of her posts and notwithstanding the fact that she possesses a level of expertise at these games far superior to my own, I'm inclined to see her as Town for the time being. I'm ambivalent about the whole 'low poster lynching' thing as there are arguments on both sides that appear relatively logical. Having said that, my experience aligns to the approach that Zebra outlined earlier and rightly or wrongly, I think that has strengthened my opinion of her.

I regards to the map discussion again, I'm in two minds. There are again, arguments to be made both ways but as is my nature, I'd prefer to adopt a more cautious approach to this question. From my perspective, I don't know that we'd gain a lot by discussing it right now but potentially, we could do ourselves considerable harm for later in the game.

My apologies too, should anyone find my posts too 'crafted'. I work in a relatively highly politicised environment and maybe that subconsciously impacts the way I post...

[S~V~S]

I didn't say "too crafted"; I said something along the line of "carefully crafted" which says a different thing, wouldn't you agree?

I enjoy reading someone who writes precisely without wielding that precision as a weapon. I hope you continue to write as you do.

[S~V~S]

Ebwop; I am not sure what I think of you in this game, but I rather like you in general

[MacDougall]

But lovedelic is also new.

The biggest distinction here is that lovedelic has not yet exhibited the desire to play, where at least Equiv has. Though barely.

Also lovedelic is not new to Mafia. I played a game with him on RYM. I don't know Equiv's deal.

Hmmm you're shifty.

[S~V~S]

Bizarro am ready to talk about his location.

Bizarro no like being ignored, I bet.

[sig]

I have never said I perform far better, slightly better yes, but that is mainly since the mafia isn't trying to get me lynched when I'm one of them. Having said that I find it interesting you are building a case against me based on what I've said outside of all games and in casual conversation that isn't something civ Glorfindel would be as likely to do. I've already been suspected this game and in several civ games I am just as self assured (which I don't even think I'm being in this game?) in fact I was more assured I was right in Pikimin then most games.

Though lets not bring up Pikimin my game play there should be forgotten.

It isn't a persistent push to discuss maps I've brought it up and am trying to create discussions around it, but I'm not hounding anyone to talk about it. Putting persistent in front of push is an attempt to make it seem like I'm being stubborn and anti-town, stop using evil adverbs on me :P .
I also find it odd you quoted the post where I said I had a ping of you? Then preceded to try and make a case against me.

[sig]

I voted City Hall for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I've no idea at all what the hell I'm doing in this game and being the 'outsider' I always seem to be, it seems appropriate for me to select such a location. At 13 pages, this game has gotten so far away from me now... I just can't...

Again Glorfidnel was I believe the only person to go to City Hall yet he doesn't want to share what he found out. This seems scummy to me and I know other people disagree however, my opinion on that won't change. Nothing much else here, I think him using the term outsider is strange, though I'm assuming he means from a lore point of view.

And I had such high hopes for this game... I'm sorry guys...

What instigated you to make this post Glorfindel? I'm just interested since you had the same sort of defeatist posts in Star Wars a game that you where mafia in. Also meta wise I know you hate to be mafia so this was an eyebrow raiser.

Well, 20 pages in and I'm not much the wiser. I don't know a lot of the players here (well, not well anyway) but from the time I have spent here, I'd draw one conclusion. I played with Zebra in Star Wars and I saw a really slick performance from a very confident operator who always seemed in control. In Pikmin, I saw Zebra as a very transparent Townie who was picked off early by the twin forces of evil and ignorance. This game, I'm getting Pikmin vibes from her again. She's playing demonstrably differently to how she did in Star Wars and while it's possible that she is simply using her extraordinary ability to pull the wool over my eyes, I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm simply not getting bad vibes from her at this stage.

Like, I don't articulate myself very well very often. Fine. But I fucking try. I try to get people to understand and if anyone has a concern no matter how many or how much, I try to address them, even if I feel like it's something I've already addressed and explained as many times in as many different ways as I can conceive of. But when I feel like the same isn't being done for me, it kills my motivation to keep putting in this effort. Because where is it getting me?

I don't understand how someone can spend an hour and a half writing a post addressed to someone to explain their suspicion of them and not only have it not acknowledged but then that person has the nerve to demand that the person that put in that effort start answering their questions as if they haven't already done that, while constantly misrepresenting that person.

I know this is probably a stupid thing to say but you sound really frustrated here Zebra. I understand why and try not to worry - not everyone is oblivious to your efforts. Whilst it'd be a disaster if you were Mafia, I think you're a huge asset to us if you're not and I for one would like to give you the the chance to help us win this

Some defense of Zebra here not much to go on otherwise. Seems like regular Glorfindel to me.

Yes. I'm sorry, so very sorry. The last few days haven't been good for me personally but it's amazing what a good night's sleep and som straight-talking can do. And thank you for your support I said I'd try and I don't want to let you guys down any more than I already have.

There seems to be a number of players (not unlike myself) that don't seem to have made much of an impression yet so I'd like to hear some more from them. The one person I'm looking closely at right now is Matt. Please don't get me wrong - he's a really lovely guy and I do respect him and his opinions a lot. I am concerned though - based on my (admittedly limited) experience of him in previous games, his performance this game appears uncharacteristicly rattled. I can accept that his judgement may be way off again like it was in Pikmin but his behaviour seems noticeably more 'hostile' than I've seen from him before...

I don't think you've let the players down Glor so no need to apologize.

I can't say off the top of my head if civ Glor is as likely to minimize how much he knows of a player, but the way he is doing it this game seems like an out in case said player gets lynched and flips civ, this might just be me nitpicking though.

Well, 20 pages in and I'm not much the wiser. I don't know a lot of the players here (well, not well anyway) but from the time I have spent here, I'd draw one conclusion. I played with Zebra in Star Wars and I saw a really slick performance from a very confident operator who always seemed in control. In Pikmin, I saw Zebra as a very transparent Townie who was picked off early by the twin forces of evil and ignorance. This game, I'm getting Pikmin vibes from her again. She's playing demonstrably differently to how she did in Star Wars and while it's possible that she is simply using her extraordinary ability to pull the wool over my eyes, I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm simply not getting bad vibes from her at this stage.

Like, I don't articulate myself very well very often. Fine. But I fucking try. I try to get people to understand and if anyone has a concern no matter how many or how much, I try to address them, even if I feel like it's something I've already addressed and explained as many times in as many different ways as I can conceive of. But when I feel like the same isn't being done for me, it kills my motivation to keep putting in this effort. Because where is it getting me?

I don't understand how someone can spend an hour and a half writing a post addressed to someone to explain their suspicion of them and not only have it not acknowledged but then that person has the nerve to demand that the person that put in that effort start answering their questions as if they haven't already done that, while constantly misrepresenting that person.

I know this is probably a stupid thing to say but you sound really frustrated here Zebra. I understand why and try not to worry - not everyone is oblivious to your efforts. Whilst it'd be a disaster if you were Mafia, I think you're a huge asset to us if you're not and I for one would like to give you the the chance to help us win this

So you read the whole thread? Awesome

Fresh eyes are a good thing. I see you have strong opinions on this one situation; do you have any thoughts on Enrique vs Golden? Golden played Star Wars. What about Mac & TH? Did it read like a slip to you? All of these things took over the thread for a time. You have commented fairly in depth on one; I would appreciate your thoughts on the others.

While I am still waffled on Zebra, I feel pretty much the opposite to you regarding Matt. Having just hosted him bad, I will say that him jumping out the gate and speaking his mind is very par for the course for civ Matt. He knows he may frustrate people, but he dowesn't just speak his piece, he OWNS his piece. He takes that piece andhe does the cha cha on it. Bad Matt was a bitmore cautious about going full out until endgame. Not seeing that here.

I was also fairly involved in that situation, at least at the beginning. Any opinion on me? My thoughts on Zebra were pretty much really similar to Matts. Since your one towen read, Zebra, and your one bad read, Matt, come from the same situation, I would be interested in hearing your opinion as well.

Taking a break was good, and the second half of Day Zero with my unchangeable vote already made seemed like a good time [/hissy]

I did not and do not find anything odd about THs word choices. I have seen people lambasted for "trying too hard" by saying "we", and also seen them attacked for saying "they", like, "Oh aren't you a civ, that you talk about 'them' in the third person?". And his reaction was more inline with what I would expect from him as a civ. He would have been smoother & shrugged it off more had he been bad, I think.

That said, I trust Macs tone reads, in the games I have played with him, I have seen him to have a good gut. So not particularly suspecting TH, but will keep more of an eye on him than I may have done. I am not one to discuss who I trust, but if I did have oneof those lists, while TH would not be the top name, hewould be very far from the bottom. Mac, too, really.

Now that you have done so, Glorfindel, I need to reread the thread some today to clear out my preconceived notions.

Thank you for replying to my post my friend . I acknowledge your opinion on Matt and that it appears to be different to mine. You may indeed be in a better position to judge than I but I can only speak from my experience. I agree with you on one point though, he DOES own his piece - even when he's wrong, which I feel at this point he is about Zebra.

As for Mac and TH, I really don't know. From the little I've seen of TH I think he's too experienced and capable to have made that kind of silly mistake. From my experience in these games on other sites (and I speak from first hand experience) I know precisely what it's like to be so convinced that someone is Mafia based on a 'slip' like that only on the vast majority of occasions to be proven wrong. Like the King of Siam in the King and I, I find myself second guessing myself a lot more these days. I may have missed the Golden/Enrique confrontation of which you speak and will go back and have a look. I'll admit I kinda like Golden (from my experience of them in Star Wars and so far here) but again, I need to review this matter. Please don't think I'm clearing people here with some kind of gay abandon - because I'm not. I'm not familiar with the playstyles of most of you and am not stupid enough to do that. My approach in these games is usually cautious as it is right now. I trust you can appreciate that.

He is usually cautious, but he seems more so this game then usually, not sure if it is an alignment indicator or not. Two things though
@Glorfindel WHat do you mean by TH is too experienced? Do you think it was a fake slip or something else?
Also have you reviewed the Golden vs Enrique argument if so what are your thoughts on it.

[Enrique]

sig if it wasn't for that last night I'd have no idea that you were talking to me. What's up? Actually I'm not sure you are because none of the other has anything to do with me... okay I'm confused.

FTR I was the only one to vote Blackgate (at your suggestion) and I'm not about to openly discuss what I found. I see this as the pro-town approach and you're not gonna convince me Glorfindel is bad because of it.

[DharmaHelper]

Bizarro am ready to talk about his location.

Bizarro no like being ignored, I bet.

Bizarro love being ignored.

[S~V~S]

Predictably bizarre.

[DharmaHelper]

I had a strange moment at the beginning of the game when I was reading one of TH's posts. I was confused. I thought to myself "Why is the host offering on topic thoughts on people lol" Then I remembered Game of Champions is over.

[sig]

sig if it wasn't for that last night I'd have no idea that you were talking to me. What's up? Actually I'm not sure you are because none of the other has anything to do with me... okay I'm confused.

FTR I was the only one to vote Blackgate (at your suggestion) and I'm not about to openly discuss what I found. I see this as the pro-town approach and you're not gonna convince me Glorfindel is bad because of it.

I was talking to Glorfindel in the last few posts, sorry for not making it clear.

@SVS What do you mean?

[S~V~S]

About what?

[a2thezebra]

It's hard to talk about it explicitly because part of my playing ball with sig involves him not knowing what I'm doing. Anyway, I'm going to go walk my dogs and purchase some potato wedges. I will return later.

You should play ball with it to (the dog). Also I call into question her buying potato wedges who actually buys those things.

http://postimg.org/image/ri1dfftj9

I just finished eating them too.

[Marmot]

Can I get an outsider's opinion on what I'm seeing in zebra's game.

I think that zebra is continually looking for a way to survive past Day 3 in a game, and that this is just another stepping stone on that path.

Zebra, you should read my book on this matter.

[a2thezebra]

I fail to see your point, MM.