Okay, well. Here we go. As you all know, my whole case relies on Matt having been cursed by the Joker. This is the Joker's role description.
Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*
Now, with
made insane I usually would've assumed the hosts meant through LC's insanifier. I don't think that's the case anymore. Not only has no one been insanified (Bass, Bubbles, ekeknat, Equivocate, and sprityo still haven't shown up~ there's time to refute this), but Matt insists on posting
in knock knock jokes only. Is there another role that does anything like that? What makes more sense? These are the secret roles.
During the Day, Bruce Wayne conducts business. At Night, he is Batman. *Secrets*
Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*
Edward Nygma has questions that need answering. *Secrets*
Dr. Pamela Isley, ecologist and terrorist, can poison anyone each Night. A poisoned person will die unless he or she discovers the antidote. *Secrets*
Bane has a convoluted history with Batman. On Nightfall of the third phase, Bane must decide if he wants to support or oppose Batman. This choice will affect his win condition, which will be a secret until then even unto him. *Secrets*
Which of these do you think is the likeliest to make a player speak in fucking knock knock jokes? Fucking Batman? NO. You could
maybe make a case for the Riddler, but it'd be a shitty case. This is 100% the Joker's territory.
You know what Matt could do to prove he's not cursed by the Joker? He could fucking speak in anything other than knock knock jokes. It's not that hard!
So, okay, reading the Joker's role... how do you become cursed? You need to target the Joker.
Anyone who targets the Joker will be made insane. Okay, cool, now what roles could've possibly targeted him? There aren't that many roles in this game who do stuff at night, let's see which ones do.
Bruce Wayne
During the Day, Bruce Wayne conducts business. At Night, he is Batman. *Secrets*
"At Night, he is Batman." Great, we don't know anything about this role. This could conceivably Matt, but I have a few reasons for believing he's not.
Anyone who read the thread remembers when he got the idea that I was "painting a target on his back" and wouldn't shut the fuck about it for a whole page.
This is the post where a lightbulb switches and he starts accusing me of that. This is
after Nero first mentioned the idea that if Montoya did her fucking work at night then Matt MUST be her. Because only one player is allowed to use their power each night apparently. What Matt does here is basically take my argument against MP, and retroactively apply it to his case like he had any fucking clue where his defense was going in the first place.
You're outing me! You're painting a target on my back! Fuck off I'm trying to lynch you because you're bad as shit. No baddie is gonna touch you with a ten-foot pole when you're making yourself look so fucking bad in the thread.
Then he made this post, which really got my attention.
Matt wrote:juliets wrote:Matt, you've become a master at communicating through the knock knock jokes. Do you think you could tell us why you didn't respond to zebra's post yesterday (Friday)? Maybe you explained this somewhere and I missed it. If so, just refer me to your iso.
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Zebra
Zebra who?
Nah more like Zebra where?, but regardless, I've been busy but I suppose I promised I would answer her, so I will do that now in the form of knock knock.
Linki
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Enrique
Enrique who?
Enrique who I'm betting is partners with Nero, so if I do get lynched, DO NOT let him get away with saying "Oh I guess Nero is good then", because I'm betting that's exactly what he'll say when I flip and I'm not mafia.
"Zebra who? More like Zebra where?" Okay, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but to me it looks like he's
owning up to the Renee role. That line definitely gave me pause, because Zebra hadn't posted all day, and Matt had every reason to silence her if he could. But he didn't. She showed up just a little while later, and away went the chances that he was good.
I don't think he's Batman, because then why the hell would he claim another civive role? Not to mention, if he's a civ and not deliberately stirring shit, he's gotta be some sort of fucking moron to interpret my (and Zebra's on Day 1) posts the way he has. I have a higher opinion of Matty than that, so I'm sticking to him being bad.
Detective Harvey Bullock
I'm not letting this slide. There's like no fucking chance that he's Detective Bullock, but I'm going over every possibility just to show you how bad he is. This is Bullock's role.
Detective Harvey Bullock
Bullock tracks or kills someone each Night. He has just one kill. Better make it a good one.
Okay, so for Matt to be detective Bullock, he must have decided to use his kill
on the first night of the game, he must've been
blocked (or otherwise targeted Wilgy and the Mafia got blocked, which doesn't seem the least bit likely), and he must have a fucking good reason to claim Montoya instead. So yeah I don't have a lot to say about this one except I feel pretty comfortable ruling it out.
Detective Renee Montoya
I already went over this pretty much in the Bruce Wayne section. This is the role he tried to claim, didn't work out. But to add to it, his recent insistence that
wait maybe Nero is the Joker after all! hints that instead of Zebra he might've targeted Nero. Well, if he was Montoya, then that
obviously didn't happen because Nero has been posting like normal all day. He relies on us being completely stupid to believe his shit, and yeah, it's not working out well.
Victor Zsasz
Victor Zsasz
Kills on odd Nights. Blocks on even Nights. The bought cop inherits the kill first.
This guy killed Wilgy, so no. Unless, again, Zsasz got blocked and it was Bullock who killed Wilgy. A little beyond unlikely.
OR, actually, unless Wilgy was the Joker. I do still think there's a good chance the Joker was being the no-lynch yesterday, so it would make some sense. I still think this is a very unlikely option but the possibility is left open.
Tony Zucco
Tony Zucco
Kills on even Nights. Blocks on odd Nights. The bought cop inherits the kill first.
This one's a bit more interesting. Epig didn't want to answer, but in my experience, passive roles don't get blocked. Zucco could have blocked the Joker and got insanified as a result. Keep in mind, his team recruited last night as well. I've talked about this before, but I think it's possible Nero and Matt are teammates as of today. Just look at this post:
Nerolunar wrote:Renee(possibly Matt) targeted the Joker, becoming insane. I don´t know if the ability still works on the Joker or not, but if it doesn´t and nobody is silenced then Matt has to be Renee. It all depends on whether or not the Joker is still hit by the ability, but his role description doesn´t explain it.
This could go for any other role where the effect is easy to spot, though I don´t recall any other role where that is the case.
Im going to ask:
@Hosts: Is the Joker still hit by the ability that targeted him, even if he made the source insane?
Christ this linki.
Contrived bullshit. If no one is silenced (ha yeah we're gonna prove that), then Matt
has to be Renee? No.
(Small correction to a mistake I made somewhere: Nero didn't say that if Montoya used her role then she had to be Matt. He said if Montoya
didn't use her role, then she had to be Matt, because the Joker would've blocked her. This of course is ridiculous because we have no reason to assume the Joker is immune to all night powers.)
So, okay, back where I left off. I just ISO'd Matt and found that his obsession with
he who mentions the Riddler has got to be him! is something new to
after he got cursed. Their only interaction previous to that was Matt defending SVS to him. There's also
this which is Nero saying "eh idk about Matt" but it seems pretty harmless to me.
There may be something here, there may not be. Matt is playing a bullshit game when he says
oh but he was sure Nero was the Joker! No that he was Mafia! This is the post he's talking about:
Enrique wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Enrique wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.
I don't see anyone going after Scotty like... at all.
And what's your point? If I'm right, then
he almost died yesterday, and would have if it wasn't for Robin. Does that mean I shouldn't have said anything? I'm not running any risks. Civilians should lay everything out there; what good can we do if we keep everything to ourselves?
You of all people should agree with this, I would think.
I think the rest of us are just as capable of making connections, not to mention, Scotty only got 4 votes yesterday. That's a far cry from a majority
Nero, if Matt flips Mafia I'm gonna remember you.
Which very specifically
relies on Matt being Mafia and is based on that single defense only. I don't "have a case on Nero," I have a case on
Matt.
Rupert Thorne
Rupert Thorne
An independent crime boss who has little strength as yet, Thorne will decide on any given Night whom he wants to help. He will gain BTSC as a consultant with that person (and any co-conspirators) and share that person’s win condition.
This would make him the Joker's teammate. Bad.
Catwoman
Catwoman
An adept thief, Selena Kyle steals one person’s win condition. If her target ever votes for her, she becomes paranoid, and must choose someone else to steal from next.
The Joker's win condition, so essentially a BTSC-less team.
Bad.
The Scarecrow
The Scarecrow
Dr. Jonathan Crane uses his fear toxin to cause people to dread those they might otherwise trust. Using this toxin on one target per Night, that target will need the role the Scarecrow names dead in order to win. Crane can never target the same person more than once. If The Scarecrow is lynched, then he gives up the antidote and those new win conditions no longer apply. Over half of the living population must be hallucinating for The Scarecrow to be successful.
This guy makes it harder to win and turns us against each other.
Bad.
The Riddler
The Riddler
Edward Nygma has questions that need answering. *Secrets*
Who the fuck knows but Arkham are baddies anyway.
Bad.
(would line up with Dom's "baddies love to talk about their roles" as well when he's accusing Nero of being the Riddler out of fucking nowhere)
Two Face
Two Face
Two Face takes a hostage every Night. If someone targets Two Face with any negative action, a coin is flipped. Heads means that he takes it. Tails means that his hostage takes it. Harvey Dent wins with civilians on odd phases. Two Face wins with Mafia on even phases.
Jeez this would probably be the least surprising, given how he's acting like a maniac. This guy can win with (most) civilians, yes, but that's also a dangerous as fuck role and it's
bad.
Poison Ivy
Poison Ivy
Dr. Pamela Isley, ecologist and terrorist, can poison anyone each Night. A poisoned person will die unless he or she discovers the antidote. *Secrets*
Super bad.
Bane
Bane
Bane has a convoluted history with Batman. On Nightfall of the third phase, Bane must decide if he wants to support or oppose Batman. This choice will affect his win condition, which will be a secret until then even unto him. *Secrets*
This guy could actually be kinda good but also not, and his death is beneficial for at least four civvies. We don't even know if he does anything at night, so, a little less likely than the others anyway.
Mr. Freeze
Mr. Freeze
Dr. Victor Fries is researching a way to save his beloved wife, Nora from a terminal illness. Renee Montoya has the right genetics for him to save Nora. Using his freeze ray, Mr. Freeze blocks up to two targets each Night. Montoya must be frozen twice for him to win. If Montoya dies before Mr. Freeze completes his task, he goes cold, and becomes last man standing, killing each Night.
If Montoya dies,
super fucking bad. Otherwise kinda harmless, but let's not take that risk.
All of this added to the fact that he's acting like a fucking moron seals the deal for me. Matt is
BAD and I can't stress this enough. Zebra thinking he's genuine after he overshared gives me a little pause, but not enough. I think it's worth remembering that their whole thing was more about him being a dick than being a baddie. I think he's both.
I genuinely care about the guy a great deal. He's probably the player with whose playstyle I feel most familiar. I've been burnt that many times by him though in these games, I know just what he's capable of... 
