[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Golden]

Hey Wilgy - answer me this. Treat it like a Wilgy game. If you are bad/cop, what would be a good reason for you to propose the Don strategy you did at the start of the game?

[Golden]

DId you suddenly theorize me and SVS being on the same mafia team just because we both voted for you?

Yeah, I didn't much like that either.

[Spacedaisy]

So guys, I get that mafia is a game we get emotionally invested in and I get that sometimes things happen that bug you to the point it carries into other games. However, if you have a personal issue with what someone did in another game, then act like the grown ups that you all are and deal with it. Either deal with it person to person by PM, or get over it. But if I see all this pissy whining about personal grudges from previous games, I'll shut you up myself. We will have fun this game, or else!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Eh... I hope I haven't offended anyone with my accusations. If I have, you can tell me and I'll apologize. I'm only being agressive in the context of the game, I don't hate any of you.

[DrWilgy]

Don't misrepresent me, wilgy. I'm not voting for you for starting that discussion per se. I didn't go YOU'RE BAD FOR STARTING DISCUSSION. Golden can read for himself and see that you were playing really dumb with why it would be advantageous for you to do so as scum, which doesn't help. You also did fuck all else BUT discuss the setup. You didn't use it to scumhunt. And your votes so far have been bad. Just read my posts. Will hopefully be back before the deadline but I put trust in golden's ability to click on the diiny's posts button

Oh, if that's the case, I really don't understand. Why would that be advantageous for me to do as scum? I feel like it'd be more beneficial to scum to halt discussion altogether. What makes you think I didn't use it to scumhunt? I gauged reactions from it. Fuzz is one of my prime suspects and that was reaction to mechanic discussion... so?

Even my want to vote Enrique or Fuzz? or just my Golden vote? specifics Dennis!

[Golden]

Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

Gleam - what is the difference between sussing out the police and minimising civilians deaths? How do you propose to minimise civilian deaths?

[sig]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

[Golden]

Eh... I hope I haven't offended anyone with my accusations. If I have, you can tell me and I'll apologize. I'm only being agressive in the context of the game, I don't hate any of you.

Except me. He hasn't forgiven me for bussing him in Guess Who

[Golden]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

Unfortunately that doesn't narrow things down much.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Eh... I hope I haven't offended anyone with my accusations. If I have, you can tell me and I'll apologize. I'm only being agressive in the context of the game, I don't hate any of you.

Except me. He hasn't forgiven me for bussing him in Guess Who

That makes no sense. We won the game because of that.

What I haven't forgiven you for is beating me in Economics.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My god, this poll is a mess.

[Epignosis]

MrWilgy, what did you learn about me from Zodiac?

[sig]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

Unfortunately that doesn't narrow things down much.

Not by much, but it does by a bit.

I switched my vote to diiny I've already given some reasons before, DDL made some good points and I've also got a bad gut read of him. He seems to be playing the same way he did in West Wing when we where mafia together.

[Golden]

At this point I'm heading off and hoping to be back before poll ends, but no guarantees (in fact I'm thinking I probably won't be, unfortunately, as I've just been told my meeting is off site).

I'm tossing up between Wilgy and gleam, but the tie breaker for now is I don't know gleam, although I find his behaviour more than just dodgy. The stuff about not scum hunting, while connecting his voters as though they are on a team out to get him, doesn't sit well with me. Actually I've talked myself in to changing to gleam. So I'll go there.

[Diiny]

Playing from the train station because im a sociopath. Have you ever played a game with me as town?

Wilgy your vote for fuzz and golden were both bad. Brought out of nowhere.

[Diiny]

That first bit was directed at sig

[Black Rock]

I am mostly caught up. I'm going to put a vote om Turnip Head for now. I don't have a strong suspicion for anyone at the moment but I don't like a Turnip that's forgettable.

[agleaminranks]

I'm voting Diiny, but not because I specifically side with Wilgy or Enrique. To be honest I have no idea what the flying fart is going on in that circle.

Glad your vote is well informed.

I think Luffy made a good point against your favor. As much as I don't want to say that for how fervently he is attacking me at the moment.

Read my response.

I did, it just also feels to me that you really just sort of chimed in rather than giving further explanation for your votes.

[Golden]

Waiting for my manager to stop talking so I can go to my meeting... guaranteed not to be back in time now.

[agleaminranks]

Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

Gleam - what is the difference between sussing out the police and minimising civilians deaths? How do you propose to minimise civilian deaths?

That's a good question. It's really hard to do because someone has to be lynched the first day. Mongoose has attempted to do so by spreading the votes thinner, that's certainly at least one way to abstain personally. I think the best thing to do is to really try not to fly off the handle with suspicions so early. That's the most common way that civs end up getting lynched.

At this point I'm heading off and hoping to be back before poll ends, but no guarantees (in fact I'm thinking I probably won't be, unfortunately, as I've just been told my meeting is off site).

I'm tossing up between Wilgy and gleam, but the tie breaker for now is I don't know gleam, although I find his behaviour more than just dodgy. The stuff about not scum hunting, while connecting his voters as though they are on a team out to get him, doesn't sit well with me. Actually I've talked myself in to changing to gleam. So I'll go there.

[quote="agleaminranks"=You know what big, bold, brazen, and unbacked claims result in? Good guys getting lynched.

Dragon, you were seemingly on board with what I was saying and then all of a sudden decided to flip a vote on me. Am I sensing some camaraderie between you and S~V~S? How's that for a bold claim? [/quote]

I thought that by making this point and then following up with something ridiculous like that would make it clear that this was supposed to be parody. But I guess you guys didn't catch that. I'm not endorsing that theory at all, lol. It was more trying to point out what sort of reasoning Luffy's play tactics would lead to.

[agleaminranks]

Crap, that last quote got messed up. Sorry. But you can go back through my posts if you don't believe me.

[DrWilgy]

Playing from the train station because im a sociopath. Have you ever played a game with me as town?

Wilgy your vote for fuzz and golden were both bad. Brought out of nowhere.

Lies!

Fuzz:

Refusal to elaborate on a lynch vote isn't enough for a lynch? I disagree, Luffy. Saying "X should be dead" and not explaining the why is either poor play that needs to be pruned or intentional manipulation of mob mentality to keep motives for X's death hidden. I don't like it.

Wilgy you knew perfectly well that your voting plan wasn't going to work before you posted it.

Scotty you didn't put me on that list of people who hadn't checked in. If you made the list off the top of your head why are those 3 on your mind, and if you went down the list how did you miss me?

So both the green from this quote is standard civvy Fuzz. Makes a point to express his feelings regarding a subject he brings up, or expresses curiosity in the things he feels like he doesn't have enough information on.

The not colored post isn't a civ Fuzz post. He didn't offer opinions based upon his interpretation of my plan, nor did he ask or inquire anything regarding it. I explained this before. What about it was bad?

[Long Con]

@LC

So your idea is to basically dump the whole traitor thing under a pile of WIFOM so big nobody can draw any conclusion from it?

I like it.

I like it too

LC is the first person to get a colour on my rainbow. It's very lightly green.

I'm a few pages behind but I'm feeling the crunch of the lynch end. This post by Golden roughly tells me where I am in the read, and I'm going to put a vote down on him for buddying me, and putting a green coloured target on my back. Golden

And if it's genuine and not buddying... well then thanks man! I also liked it. And I laughed with the pink 'S' thing.

[Long Con]

I wasn't aware that would tie him up with two other candidates at three votes apiece. Interesting.... more interesting at least than Golden with 1 vote that doesn't matter.

[Long Con]

Some one liners that pinged me:

Day zero is for policemen!

linki-that is in fact, and idea, that is good, yes

I will bet my [hopefully] unborn child that the 30 person coordinated vote will not work out. There will be too many no-shows. There always is in these games.

No-shows could get replaced. I see no harm in trying Wilgy's plan. For science!

Both those guys only posted that. Nothing wrong with speculating on Wilgy's plan, but they haven't posted anything else yet. Could be a very easy way to blend in.

I agree with this point.

[Epignosis]

DrWilgy, what did you learn about me in Zodiac?

[agleaminranks]

Actually yeah Wilgy, what did you learn about Epignosis in that mafia game? He's asked you three times during your peak activity and you've completely ignored him. That's pretty suspect.

[Quin]

@Gleam

Did you actually post civ reads on anyone though? Other than me? Please show because I think I missed those.

I didn't. I don't have solid reads on people apart from how they normally act in other games.

I think Matt is being a bit more quiet than normal, I think I remember him being a little more pandering for discussion than usual. But I have no reason to suspect him as being bad.

Scott and Epignosis are both acting pretty typical, even if they're somewhat low posters for the game right now.

The only other people I have played games with before (Mongoose, llama, zebra) have all been pretty inactive in the game right now. I'm inclined to say civilian just because their contributions seem normal.

I think S~V~S has a false read on me but I don't have reason to suspect her as bad.

Agreeing with what you are saying doesn't equal reading you as a civ.

SVS and Sloonei pointed out something I hadn't yet noticed. I then read your posts and concluded that indeed, you were saying a lot without actually getting yourself involved in the actual game (hunting baddies).

When we're this early in the game and far more likely (statistically) to lynch a good guy, I'm more focused on minimizing civilian deaths than actively trying to suss out the police. That's just my strategy. You can agree with it or not, but that's what makes the most sense to me. Granted, once a day or two goes by and we have some patterns to examine, then the baddie hunt needs to become the main focus. If I'm still being noncommittal at that point, you can criticize me of not getting involved all you want. But I've certainly been participating in the discussion. Going all gung-ho and throwing accusations left and right isn't the only way to get involved.

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying you'd prefer not to lynch anyone today?

Ideally, I think it would be best if no one got lynched the first day.

Think of this mathematically. I'm of the firm opinion that no one has enough concrete evidence on anyone else to make more than, say, a 10 or 20% educated guess on alignment. We're close to lynching at random here. It's no different from a first day lynch. Statistically then we are more likely than not to lynch someone good. Then we wait for the results of the night actions to formulate more solid theories.

These are the two scenarios at this point:

1. The lynch vote ends up being civilian. The night phase happens, the Police Chief (unless they target the Don) is probably going to succeed in arresting someone. We're down two noble mafiosos/mafiosas.

2. The lynch vote ends up being police. Unless the Chief is lynched (a one in thirty chance), some mafia is probably going to be arrested. One baddie is down, we're down one good guy.

The first scenario is more likely to happen by a factor of 5. I agree that if a baddie is lynched this early, yes, it will go a long way towards helping the mafia teams in the long run. But. You risk civilian death as well. Some people might argue that it's worth the risk of killing a civvie if the chance of taking down even one baddie is there, I just don't agree with that strategy. Maybe it's a matter of personal taste to want to be more restrained. If we were able to somehow avoid lynching someone Day 1 then we would most likely be down one civvie but we also wouldn't be down two, probably. But that's not part of the rules, so I have to come up with my best educated guess.

I'd like to hug you. No lynches are fantastic.

I'm on page 12 right now and so far there's nothing that has convinced me to change my vote. We'll see how it goes. I think there's like, 30 minutes of day left so I'll be fast.

[Long Con]

Scotty always votes automatically for the most inactive player on day 1.

Anyone with a comfortable tradition for their Day 1 vote automatically pings me. The reason for this is because they may do it when Civ, but it gives them a free pass for Day 1 as Mafia. The rest of us have to explain our votes and reasons, and he gets to coast because of tradition? That's lame. I may change to Scotty, I have twenty minutes.

[S~V~S]

OK< I am back & just finished getting up to date, and my vote is OK where it is. The other two people with three votes have not struck me as more bad; I felt pretty OK about Golden, and the concerns I had with that one post of Diinys were addressed.

I want to see where ika/SW goes, I believe TH is away for the weekend, I thought I have been seeing Recruitment Wilgy, and I had forgotten about chaindeaths writng his posts in the third person, but he has not said anything too alarming. And all the single voters are so spread out that moving to one of them would make no difference.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Scotty always votes automatically for the most inactive player on day 1.

Anyone with a comfortable tradition for their Day 1 vote automatically pings me. The reason for this is because they may do it when Civ, but it gives them a free pass for Day 1 as Mafia. The rest of us have to explain our votes and reasons, and he gets to coast because of tradition? That's lame. I may change to Scotty, I have twenty minutes.

You could be right, but I've seen enough Scotty mislynches in my life so I will pass.

[Quin]

I've decided to change my vote to Enrique. I'm going to take sig's word for it that ika's actions are simply a cultural thing, but I've got my on him.


How much information we have determines who wins a game. That's one of my philosophies. That, and ask a shitload of questions and assume everything until proven otherwise. Enrique hasn't been able to provide the amount of information that I'd expect from a townie. The accusation I made of ika on how he ignored the traitor/don situation completely without justifying himself applies to Enrique in the same manner. On top of that, I found one of his latest posts (I'll find it as soon as I post this and explain myself) extremely scummy.

[DrWilgy]

DrWilgy, what did you learn about me in Zodiac?

Muh bad, I saw it and forgot to respond.

I'm not sure really.... I feel like I was onto your baddie vibe but it's hard to describe. You are a man of fluff, but there's a point where it's dangerous. There's also your actions, you were very volatile and hard to lynch. You also were very sassy when it came to my suspicion of you.

[Golden]

I'm back. I can see I may have to use my vote self-defensively. I'm surprised about that.

[DrWilgy]

DrWilgy, what did you learn about me in Zodiac?

Muh bad, I saw it and forgot to respond.

I'm not sure really.... I feel like I was onto your baddie vibe but it's hard to describe. You are a man of fluff, but there's a point where it's dangerous. There's also your actions, you were very volatile and hard to lynch. You also were very sassy when it came to my suspicion of you.

Not to mention that it was originally false suspicion I threw towards you because Bullzeye, the person I accused you of saving was on my team. I feel that there's a way you react to pressure that will help show your scumminess.

[Golden]

I wasn't aware that would tie him up with two other candidates at three votes apiece. Interesting.... more interesting at least than Golden with 1 vote that doesn't matter.

Yeah, well I've been gone in that time and come back to find I'm tied for the vote... but I also see you voted half an hour ago and you might note no-one is rushing in to save me... or anyone else who is in the tie vote, interestingly.

I don't feel very good about any of the people who are tied at three. Right now I'd be in a position where I'd have to vote diiny to save myself, but despite my early vote on him I felt like he's responded to pressure well.

[Golden]

Went back to Wilgy. I think this is a better chance of saving me, and still a decent chance of catching a cop.

[DrWilgy]

Actually yeah Wilgy, what did you learn about Epignosis in that mafia game? He's asked you three times during your peak activity and you've completely ignored him. That's pretty suspect.

Why is that suspect? is it possible I missed it?

[Quin]

Hey folks I'd like to remind you that there are six friggin cops so manipulation of tight lynches should be easy. I suggest y'all get your shit together and join me in voting Diiny because he's clearly the right choice

Or come to a consensus yourselves. It's been a way hectic past couple days for me and I'm not really following the game as well as I could be, and I can't say I have many reads besides being freaked out by Diiny's over-eagerness (supatownin?) and general vagueness to his actions.

jeez dudes the game just started why are you being so demanding already

btw wilgy's plan is terrible and the don would have to be a silly billy to go through with it

I hope I'm not alone in seeing this as though it was written extremely half-assed. He's pushing for a Diiny vote, yet advocating that we should be lynching whoever we want to lynch. On top of that, he immediately goes to present some weak justification to go with his hardcore push. It just seems extremely contradictory. He says that he's 'the right choice' but he's not said anything of value in the thread that might lead me to think that. Same with Wilgy's plan. There's absolutely nothing in the thread by him that would explain why he disagrees.

[Diiny]

NEARLY voted gleam you bastard. Now I might die

[DrWilgy]

Saved muhself

[Enrique]

I've decided to change my vote to Enrique. I'm going to take sig's word for it that ika's actions are simply a cultural thing, but I've got my on him.


How much information we have determines who wins a game. That's one of my philosophies. That, and ask a shitload of questions and assume everything until proven otherwise. Enrique hasn't been able to provide the amount of information that I'd expect from a townie. The accusation I made of ika on how he ignored the traitor/don situation completely without justifying himself applies to Enrique in the same manner. On top of that, I found one of his latest posts (I'll find it as soon as I post this and explain myself) extremely scummy.

I ignored the situation? I said it was a terrible idea that each Don would try to avoid at all costs anyway.

[DrWilgy]

damn you sloon!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

HAMMER

Tie between Wilgy and Dinny.

[Diiny]

Sloonei my boy. good vote.

[Golden]

Saved muhself

Sloonei un-saved you

[Sloonei]

Sneak attack last second vote for Wilgy. Hi bye

[DrWilgy]

If I die, well... Oh well. Did what I could.

Beware Enrique, Diiny, Fuzz!

Sneak attack last second vote for Wilgy. Hi bye

*Wilgy falls over... Stricken down by the sneak attack by Sloon...*

[Diiny]

If I die pursue wilgy and gleam. Gleam's vote for me was bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sneak attack last second vote for Wilgy. Hi bye