[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

That´s a little far-fetched. We are supposed to catch baddies here, and in that moment Chaindeath seemed to me like the most scummy player. I was not happy with any of the major wagons, so I went with him. Do you believe both me and Ika(and the other players with two votes) are cops then? If so, why didn´t you vote for any of us?

I do agree with some of the above posters that Slooneis vote did seem like an act to save a teammate.

Another one? Jeez. Have any of you guys ever seen a baddie ever make such a brazen last second vote to save a teammate like I did? Because I've never seen anything like that happen in any game of mafia ever. I've seen lots of townies do it to prevent what they see as a mislynch, though. In fact, this is the third consecutive game I've done it as a townie on Day 1. Not that anyone's counting.

Last game I played with you. Watchmen. You were mafia. Espers showed up at the last second to save you. He was your partner.

[Sloonei]

Answering some quick q's before we move on to the next day:

@Sloonei, I'm still confused by your response to the concerns people were voicing about your vote for me. I remember you hounding me right up until the last minute, then you said that you had read me as town, but in that post you said now you would probably have voted for me?? What's up?

@Scotty, I legitimately was just joking by making that insinuation. You should know that British parody is the most subtle of them all anyways.

Your memory is incorrect. I did not hound you, or anyone else, "right up until the last minute". I was not even here for the final 3 hours of the day, and I only spent a little bit of time casing you. I came out of thay feeling a little better about you and, since we've never played together before, I figured I'd chalk my doubts up to unfamiliarity and labeled you a town read. Then, while at work, I voted Wilgy at the very last moment without reading anything from those last 3 hours because everyone else he was tied with (you, golden, diiny) was a town read. When I got home from work, I was able to read everything I had missed, and you looked really shaky to me. The tone of your responses and the things you were saying seemed frantic and scattered, like a scum who was desperately trying to explain away everything he'd been called out on. I'll elaborate more during the day if we both survive the night.

[Sloonei]

SVS makes a good point on Sloonei, his flip-flopping is weird.

Flip-flopping? Am I not allowed to change my opinion at any point? I guess I'll just stick with my initial gut reads and ride them out til the end of the game.

No, but the way you showed up at the last second to hammer Diiny pings me.

Let's talk about your read on gleam then. You said you read him as a civ (as opposed to Diiny being a neutral read). It feels like for him to move from a lynch vote to a civ read is a very steep climb. Do you remember what exactly about gleam made your view on him change so radically?

I've answered this question like three times now. And also, diiny went from my top suspect to town read as well, but no one seems to be taking note of that (Wilgy was my neutral read, not Diiny, hence the vote for Wilgy). It was Day 1. Suspicious rise and fall.
I showed up at the last second to change my vote because I was at work and couldn't do anything else. I didn't really even have time to do that, but I did it anyway.

[thellama73]

So my main conclusion from catching up is that Dragon is most definitely a cop. He gave himself away early by complaining that it is too hard for the cops to win.

I'm comin' for you, Dragon. Prepare yourself.

When did this happen Llama? I'll double check when I'm less busy, but if you site the source that would be helpful.

It starts here, and continues with an increasingly testy exchange. Reeks of frustration.

I explained it in the same page you linked, but since you apparently didn't understand, let me explain again:

I will take every chance I get at understanding what our enemies are doing. It's how I like to play the game. The more info we have on the cops, the better.

I noticed, by looking at the setup, that the cops don't have a reliable way of killing the dons. I see two explanations for that:

1- The game is unbalanced and the hosts fucked up.
2- There is some game mechanic the hosts are hiding from us, which allows the cops or someone else (like the opposing dons) from disposing of the dons.

I never assume the game is unbalanced. Because it probably isn't, and if it is, this discussion it's pointless. Therefore, it's probably 2. And if that's the case, I want to seculate on what 2 might be.

If you wanna lynch me for that, go ahead. But know that what you're doing is basically a witch hunt: you are lynching people for seeking information. I will not accept ignorance just for the sake of looking less like a cop.

And saying my post about Sloonei is a cop out is ridiculous. If that logic applies, any accusation from anyone to anyone could be considered a cop out. I'm perfectly capable of dealing with multiple problems at once, including hunting scum and responding to your accusations.

Well, you might as well call me St. George. Because I'm huntin' dragons.

[agleaminranks]

Also, can we discuss the fact that Socky used his one-time power last night? I see a tie between Wilgy and Diiny, and yet only Diiny gets arrested. I'm wondering if Socky's power was the ability to save a teammate, or to manipulate the votes in such a fashion that Diiny was the one to get arrested.

Diiny was the Sockface famiglia traitor. I'm wondering if Sock saw that one of his two of his underlings were about to get lynched, and chose the one who could possibly defect to take the fall.

I'm thinking about it more, and I think in that case, Wilgy is a civ, and a SockCiv at that.

Also, I see you lurkin, Turnip Head. What's up?

[Sloonei]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

That´s a little far-fetched. We are supposed to catch baddies here, and in that moment Chaindeath seemed to me like the most scummy player. I was not happy with any of the major wagons, so I went with him. Do you believe both me and Ika(and the other players with two votes) are cops then? If so, why didn´t you vote for any of us?

I do agree with some of the above posters that Slooneis vote did seem like an act to save a teammate.

Another one? Jeez. Have any of you guys ever seen a baddie ever make such a brazen last second vote to save a teammate like I did? Because I've never seen anything like that happen in any game of mafia ever. I've seen lots of townies do it to prevent what they see as a mislynch, though. In fact, this is the third consecutive game I've done it as a townie on Day 1. Not that anyone's counting.

Last game I played with you. Watchmen. You were mafia. Espers showed up at the last second to save you. He was your partner.

I forgot about this, Watchmen was the worst game I've ever played. Do you sincerely think I'm bad because of that vote?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I think it's a possibility. I was reading you as solid civ before looking at the vote, now I'm having my doubts.

[S~V~S]

SVS makes a good point on Sloonei, his flip-flopping is weird.

Flip-flopping? Am I not allowed to change my opinion at any point? I guess I'll just stick with my initial gut reads and ride them out til the end of the game.

No, I change my mind constantly. I was just curious when you changed your mind. I did not see a post about it when I read your ISO. I noted it becasue when I got back home, I checked the poll, and looked to see if you had voted for Gleam, and you had not. I did not think much of it until you posted this morning that you had a town read on him.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sloonei, what do you think of gleam now?

[Marmot]

So my main conclusion from catching up is that Dragon is most definitely a cop. He gave himself away early by complaining that it is too hard for the cops to win.

I'm comin' for you, Dragon. Prepare yourself.

When did this happen Llama? I'll double check when I'm less busy, but if you site the source that would be helpful.

It starts here, and continues with an increasingly testy exchange. Reeks of frustration.

I explained it in the same page you linked, but since you apparently didn't understand, let me explain again:

I will take every chance I get at understanding what our enemies are doing. It's how I like to play the game. The more info we have on the cops, the better.

I noticed, by looking at the setup, that the cops don't have a reliable way of killing the dons. I see two explanations for that:

1- The game is unbalanced and the hosts fucked up.
2- There is some game mechanic the hosts are hiding from us, which allows the cops or someone else (like the opposing dons) from disposing of the dons.

I never assume the game is unbalanced. Because it probably isn't, and if it is, this discussion it's pointless. Therefore, it's probably 2. And if that's the case, I want to seculate on what 2 might be.

If you wanna lynch me for that, go ahead. But know that what you're doing is basically a witch hunt: you are lynching people for seeking information. I will not accept ignorance just for the sake of looking less like a cop.

And saying my post about Sloonei is a cop out is ridiculous. If that logic applies, any accusation from anyone to anyone could be considered a cop out. I'm perfectly capable of dealing with multiple problems at once, including hunting scum and responding to your accusations.

I believe the hosts have a one-time use ability to use to impact the game whenever they please. Maybe this is the mechanic you are talking about?

[Sloonei]

for those who find my vote suspicious: Here's me doing the same thing (fourth post from the bottom of the page) in an RYM game two weeks ago. I also did it on Day 1 in both Rocky and Bullwinkle and Arrested Development in the last month here on the Syndicate. R&B is still ongoing and I'm still alive, so you'll just have to take my word for it that I'm town there as well.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, what do you think of gleam now?

Are you reading my posts?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sloonei, what do you think of gleam now?

Are you reading my posts?

Yes, but I'm confused by them. Can you give me a GTH?

[Sloonei]

What do you think of Gleam, DDL?

What do you think of DDL, Gleam?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, what do you think of gleam now?

Are you reading my posts?

Yes, but I'm confused by them. Can you give me a GTH?

He's bad. He'd be orange on my rainbow list.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What do you think of Gleam, DDL?

Still my strongest scum read, but I'm having second thoughts at some of his defenses that make my think he might be sincere. Some of his opinions suck, but that's not necessarily related to alignment.

The problem is that every time I try to rationalize one of my scumtells on him, he comes and gives me another one.

[Marmot]

What do you think of Gleam, DDL?

Still my strongest scum read, but I'm having second thoughts at some of his defenses that make my think he might be sincere. Some of his opinions suck, but that's not necessarily related to alignment.

The problem is that every time I try to rationalize one of my scumtells on him, he comes and gives me another one.

So if he is continually looking worse and worse, why are you feeling less sure?

[agleaminranks]

I think Dragon was hounding me pretty furiously, but only because he genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy. I've played with him acting similarly in a civ role. I said before that I think he's a civ (or rather, I don't have reason to believe he's a bad guy) but I think I'm leaning a bit more towards civ.

Same with S~V~S, who also voted for me.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What do you think of Gleam, DDL?

Still my strongest scum read, but I'm having second thoughts at some of his defenses that make my think he might be sincere. Some of his opinions suck, but that's not necessarily related to alignment.

The problem is that every time I try to rationalize one of my scumtells on him, he comes and gives me another one.

So if he is continually looking worse and worse, why are you feeling less sure?

Gut.

I've had my fair share of mislynching people who looked terrible at every possible way when they were just that, terrible. It makes me feel uneasy.

[Sloonei]

I think Dragon was hounding me pretty furiously, but only because he genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy. I've played with him acting similarly in a civ role. I said before that I think he's a civ (or rather, I don't have reason to believe he's a bad guy) but I think I'm leaning a bit more towards civ.

Same with S~V~S, who also voted for me.

Who are yourntop suspects? Also, you spent most of the day advocating your philosophy that townie deaths should be avoided on Day 1 and then you cast a vote for the player who ended up being lynched. Care to comment on this?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Basically my perfect 100% loss rate as a civ after 4 games in the Syndicate makes me afraid of tunneling hard on anyone, I've come to the conclusion my tells just aren't that trustworthy.

Of course, if no better suspect appears, I might vote for gleam again.

[agleaminranks]

I think Dragon was hounding me pretty furiously, but only because he genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy. I've played with him acting similarly in a civ role. I said before that I think he's a civ (or rather, I don't have reason to believe he's a bad guy) but I think I'm leaning a bit more towards civ.

Same with S~V~S, who also voted for me.

Who are yourntop suspects? Also, you spent most of the day advocating your philosophy that townie deaths should be avoided on Day 1 and then you cast a vote for the player who ended up being lynched. Care to comment on this?

Yeah. I voted for someone who at the time only had one other vote (I believe. The votes were changing a lot). He was the only one I had any sort of minor suspicions against. The people who were voting against me I didn't have enough of a solid case on. I was hoping my vote wouldn't contribute to the one who was getting lynched, to avoid contributing to the very problem I was hoping to avoid, but I failed. I should have taken the Mongoose path and opted for a vote trade.

[Sloonei]

I think Dragon was hounding me pretty furiously, but only because he genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy. I've played with him acting similarly in a civ role. I said before that I think he's a civ (or rather, I don't have reason to believe he's a bad guy) but I think I'm leaning a bit more towards civ.

Same with S~V~S, who also voted for me.

Who are yourntop suspects? Also, you spent most of the day advocating your philosophy that townie deaths should be avoided on Day 1 and then you cast a vote for the player who ended up being lynched. Care to comment on this?

Yeah. I voted for someone who at the time only had one other vote (I believe. The votes were changing a lot). He was the only one I had any sort of minor suspicions against. The people who were voting against me I didn't have enough of a solid case on. I was hoping my vote wouldn't contribute to the one who was getting lynched, to avoid contributing to the very problem I was hoping to avoid, but I failed. I should have taken the Mongoose path and opted for a vote trade.

I checked your post history to see when you were here. You posted 20 minutes before and 20 minutes after the deadline. Were you just not able to be here for those 40 minutes in between? I can't pretend to know what the tally looked like 20 minutes before the deadline. Still, on the surface the timing of your posts looks a bit convenient. I don't like accusing people for reasons like this, but you cast a vote that contributed to the lynch despitr advocating against that and you were clearly here near the deadline, if not right at it.

Also you didn't answer my question about your suspects.

[DrWilgy]

Dragunu D. Ruffey-san

Psst, DrWilgy-san. You can't vote for players at night.

Ninja'd. What's up, Wilgy? You're all over the damn place.

What categorizes me as such?

[Nerolunar]

I see RadicalFuzz is online. What are your suspects and general thoughts on what happened at EoD and from there on?

[Golden]

I'm not going to jump on Sloonei so fast for his vote. I doubt a cop would so overtly try to save a teammate at that late stage. He had to know that casting the vote there was going to get attention. The obvious potential beneficiary of the save is diiny and he flipped and wasn't cop. The other person sitting closest at 3 is me and I know I'm not a cop (to be sure, noone else does). So it is difficult for me to read it as a 'save'.

[Sloonei]

I'm not going to jump on Sloonei so fast for his vote. I doubt a cop would so overtly try to save a teammate at that late stage. He had to know that casting the vote there was going to get attention. The obvious potential beneficiary of the save is diiny and he flipped and wasn't cop. The other person sitting closest at 3 is me and I know I'm not a cop (to be sure, noone else does). So it is difficult for me to read it as a 'save'.

How do you feel about the people who have been calling it suspicious?

[Golden]

I'm not going to jump on Sloonei so fast for his vote. I doubt a cop would so overtly try to save a teammate at that late stage. He had to know that casting the vote there was going to get attention. The obvious potential beneficiary of the save is diiny and he flipped and wasn't cop. The other person sitting closest at 3 is me and I know I'm not a cop (to be sure, noone else does). So it is difficult for me to read it as a 'save'.

How do you feel about the people who have been calling it suspicious?

I haven't figured out who they all are yet (no time to read up), but I feel better about someone like SVS who points out your odd shift about gleam back and forth, which I think is a reasonable suspicion of you, and worse about anyone who jumps to 'its a save'.

[Matt]

I say we listen to Matt next time and get that Golden!

Also, yeah, Sloon's vote was interesting. Any way you cut it, he said he saw gleam as a "town read" when in fact, he did not.

[Sloonei]

@ golden: That sums up how I feel as well. SVS brought it up, not really as a suspicion so much as being confused about my read on Gleam. Then DDL and Nero jumped on the "looks like a save" angle. Gleam's questions about it were more vague, which is another thing I didn't like. He was basically just asking me to repeat things I'd already said without really offering a thought one way or the other.

Linki: Whoa, Matt's a mind reader? Why aren't we listening to him?

[Sloonei]

My questions will turn into more substantive reads if I'm given the time, but I have a tendency to die early in every game on the Syndicate. I did address Epi's vote for me here. The vote, as far as I can tell, was just based on me voting for Mongoose, so I don't know what else there is to address. Other than that, I can respect your thoughts on me and I don't think I'll be keeping my vote on you today. But I need to make a decision in the next 45 minutes.

Here is where I softly announced my non-scum read on Gleam yesterday, by the way everyone.

[agleaminranks]

I think Dragon was hounding me pretty furiously, but only because he genuinely thinks I'm a bad guy. I've played with him acting similarly in a civ role. I said before that I think he's a civ (or rather, I don't have reason to believe he's a bad guy) but I think I'm leaning a bit more towards civ.

Same with S~V~S, who also voted for me.

Who are yourntop suspects? Also, you spent most of the day advocating your philosophy that townie deaths should be avoided on Day 1 and then you cast a vote for the player who ended up being lynched. Care to comment on this?

Yeah. I voted for someone who at the time only had one other vote (I believe. The votes were changing a lot). He was the only one I had any sort of minor suspicions against. The people who were voting against me I didn't have enough of a solid case on. I was hoping my vote wouldn't contribute to the one who was getting lynched, to avoid contributing to the very problem I was hoping to avoid, but I failed. I should have taken the Mongoose path and opted for a vote trade.

I checked your post history to see when you were here. You posted 20 minutes before and 20 minutes after the deadline. Were you just not able to be here for those 40 minutes in between? I can't pretend to know what the tally looked like 20 minutes before the deadline. Still, on the surface the timing of your posts looks a bit convenient. I don't like accusing people for reasons like this, but you cast a vote that contributed to the lynch despitr advocating against that and you were clearly here near the deadline, if not right at it.

Also you didn't answer my question about your suspects.

I cast my vote a little more than two hours before the poll was up, and truthfully, I didn't change it because I'm used to playing in games where the votes aren't changeable. It was more of a personal oversight than anything.

Can I get back to you on the suspects? I've been focusing on a select group of people who I think I can slightly more confidently than not attribute as civilian. I will need to re-read the posts from yesterday looking at people outside of this group.

I'm a bit concerned about the non-posters at the moment, or people I expect a larger presence from normally. Like Matt and Epignosis. But I have no reason to suspect them for anything else. It's just different than normal is all. I've participated in this game far more than I normally do in most.

[agleaminranks]

Dragunu D. Ruffey-san

Psst, DrWilgy-san. You can't vote for players at night.

Ninja'd. What's up, Wilgy? You're all over the damn place.

What categorizes me as such?

It's just your votes were all over the place yesterday, and today you acted like you were voting for someone when it's the night phase. You just seem real aloof.

But, if you read what I posted afterwards, I think I have reasonable thoughts about your civilian alignment.

[S~V~S]

My questions will turn into more substantive reads if I'm given the time, but I have a tendency to die early in every game on the Syndicate. I did address Epi's vote for me here. The vote, as far as I can tell, was just based on me voting for Mongoose, so I don't know what else there is to address. Other than that, I can respect your thoughts on me and I don't think I'll be keeping my vote on you today. But I need to make a decision in the next 45 minutes.

Here is where I softly announced my non-scum read on Gleam yesterday, by the way everyone.

Oh, I see, I thought that was aimed at DDL, as there was between 5 and 10 minutes between Gleams last post prior to this, and this post, with several posts by DDL in between. Plus you had voted for DDL and you said you would not be KEEPING your vote on the person you were addressing, which would imply that you had voted for this person.

[Epignosis]

I don't like Nero's vote what so ever. It seems like he picked a player who already had two votes. I think one of the other people with two votes is a cop, and Nero switched his vote to save them.

That´s a little far-fetched. We are supposed to catch baddies here, and in that moment Chaindeath seemed to me like the most scummy player. I was not happy with any of the major wagons, so I went with him. Do you believe both me and Ika(and the other players with two votes) are cops then? If so, why didn´t you vote for any of us?

I do agree with some of the above posters that Slooneis vote did seem like an act to save a teammate.

Another one? Jeez. Have any of you guys ever seen a baddie ever make such a brazen last second vote to save a teammate like I did? Because I've never seen anything like that happen in any game of mafia ever. I've seen lots of townies do it to prevent what they see as a mislynch, though. In fact, this is the third consecutive game I've done it as a townie on Day 1. Not that anyone's counting.

Yep. I've done it myself multiple times.

I thought he was implying that, here we go, we already have people saying they are not caught up to the thread and it is only halfway through day one.

Nah. I was just amazed that I vote the guy and he shows up and posts.

Is he your mafia partner? Did you happen to bump into him somewhere else beforehand?

Mafia partner? Maybe. He's not my cop partner though.

If humans were perfect, this game would be impossible.

I'm perfect. Are you?

Epiiiiii!!! Why were you so concerned with what I know about you from Zodiac? Are you hiding anything from me?

Also, did you vote me based on suspicion or based on me simply not responding?

I'm always hiding something from you.

To your second question, the former, buttressed by the latter. Your "research," if you want to call it that, reminded me of INH's Media bullshit from the first GoC. In a nutshell, he made it sound like he had built some spreadsheet that would help him determine who was bad. Acting as though you have special insight because of a single heist game in which 75% of the players were bad smells just as fishy to me. You were trying to manufacture something on S~V~S.

For my own part, you mentioned that your observation of me in Zodiac was that I post "fluff" more often when bad. While I would not call it "fluff" ("role-playing" is more accurate), you didn't bother looking at Lost Again, in which I was a civilian and did exactly the same thing there.

That you took so long to respond only strengthened my opinion that you were making stuff up.

[thellama73]

If humans were perfect, this game would be impossible.

I'm perfect. Are you?

Well, I'm sick right now, and I consider that apersonal moral failing, so I guess not.

Who is a cop, Epi? Is it Dragon? (hint: yes)

[Marmot]

I thought he was implying that, here we go, we already have people saying they are not caught up to the thread and it is only halfway through day one.

Nah. I was just amazed that I vote the guy and he shows up and posts.

Is he your mafia partner? Did you happen to bump into him somewhere else beforehand?

Mafia partner? Maybe. He's not my cop partner though.

The cops are baddies. I'll stick with them being mafia.

[Epignosis]

If humans were perfect, this game would be impossible.

I'm perfect. Are you?

Well, I'm sick right now, and I consider that apersonal moral failing, so I guess not.

Who is a cop, Epi? Is it Dragon? (hint: yes)

As of this point, I'd say Wilgy, and if Wilgy is bad, gleam is with him after that wild speculation in defense of Wilgy.

[thellama73]

If humans were perfect, this game would be impossible.

I'm perfect. Are you?

Well, I'm sick right now, and I consider that apersonal moral failing, so I guess not.

Who is a cop, Epi? Is it Dragon? (hint: yes)

As of this point, I'd say Wilgy, and if Wilgy is bad, gleam is with him after that wild speculation in defense of Wilgy.

I agree that that gleam post is really suspect. It's extremely wild speculation for no good reason, and improbable to boot. It seems unlikely to me that Sockface would use his one time power to choose which of his people to let die, when he might be able to use it at alater point to prevent the death of one of his people altogether. Gleam assumes a lot, and you know how I feel about assumptions.

[RadicalFuzz]

I'm writing this as I'm reading, so if some points have already been addressed then ignore me.

Spoiler: show

Quin the assumption that anybody acting strange, presumably to perform a task, should be a town read is something I find odd.

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?

Quin Wilgy does as Wilgy is. While I don't know what he's doing, in my experience that's somewhat the norm for him. I feel like the amount of conjecture we could do regarding the tasks is nearly infinite, so I'd rather not focus on that line.

Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.

Enrique others might not share this sentiment but it irks me when votes are explained away with "it was a joke" statements. I also attain an irked state when defenses consist of "I'm town" and nothing else. Statements like those showcase both zero credibility and zero effort.

Ika usually having a working knowledge of the roles in a given game can help you determine motivations and possible underlying intentions behind certain statements or actions. A game without any night protections whatsoever would have to be played differently than one with several. And this could just be me again, but I have personally never seen anything remotely fruitful come of asking the question "are you town" and I doubt I ever will. The only answer that question provides is that the one asking it is attempting to appear inquisitive.

Wilgy I can safely assume it was to gauge reactions, or I can dangerously assume it was to evoke a specific one.

Matt the implications of light green on a rainbow and not voting for someone aren't the same. As I understand it rainbow lists usually only have 5 colors, but a thinking person doesn't have only 5 states of suspicion they put the other players into.

Diiny I like your sense of humor.

Luffy regarding Tranq & spirityo I agree with you. Voicing support for something is fine, but to have the only thing to your name be a "linki- yeah let's do that" isn't a good thing.

Sloonei that cop-out pun was horrible. Thank you.

At the risk of appearing as if I'm defending Golden, I feel like Luffy & Sloonei are both putting words in his mouth after Matt's post. His only non-null read (he said, specifically, color on the rainbow so I might be misinterpreting) was Long Con and then shortly after said he didn't want to vote for 7 players. He didn't say he thinks they're town, necessarily. I can see where they don't like Golden's actions but there is a distinction between town read and "rather not vote X" that is being ignored.

Wilgy, I see that your ping is ponged. Would you mind circulating it my way?

Gleam I disagree with you on the point that pointing out how people are acting in this game as opposed to previous is "literally" all you can do on the first day. It doesn't take a precedent of action Y in previous games to determine that action X in this game doesn't look good.

Matt both Luffy & Sloonei used your points to pressure Golden but you missed it. After having played a game with you I was under the impression you would be on the lookout for anyone supporting you, but that's not the case here.

Gleam the problem of minimizing civilian deaths in this format is that we're "outnumbered" from the beginning. While it's preferable to dispose of scum first, each individual team from the beginning has more enemies than allies. Statistically speaking, trying to save civilians on day 1 when you yourself act as if there's very little information on day 1, is a poor decision.

Wilgy the irony of your avatar combined with "getting the heebee jeebees from [me]" is not lost on me. Also going to reiterate your statement, what are everyone's thoughts on me? And again, I informed you that my presence would be scarce this weekend so if you're in any way surprised that I was missing for a long period of time then that's on you.

Diiny being cautious about one's appearance isn't scum in and of itself.

"People like yourself are a pretty common trope in movie bad guys. They have some ideal that may even be morally sympathetic to the viewer, but you still use the end to justify your means of sacrificing a few innocent lives along the way. I think that is the wrong attitude."
Gleam this isn't some life-or-death survival game where he's sacrificed your crippled sister to better his odds of winning. Mislynches are going to happen, statistically. I guarantee you the number of games won without mislynches is smaller than the number of games won with them. And, again, this game in particular there are three teams and only one can win, so that makes the logic hole in your mission statement even larger.

Wilgy just because I didn't put a question at the end of that statement doesn't mean I wasn't looking for an answer. With what I know of you I assumed you would respond to that statement as is, and sure enough you did. What's the problem? Also I have to thank you for reminding me that Scotty never answered my question. Scotty made a small list of 3 players that hadn't checked in, but didn't include my name when at that point I hadn't said jack. Why or how did he miss me?

Gleam makes a good point. The normal result of players tying for a lynch vote would be both of them dying, no?

That's better.

[Epignosis]

I'm writing this as I'm reading, so if some points have already been addressed then ignore me.

Spoiler: show

Quin the assumption that anybody acting strange, presumably to perform a task, should be a town read is something I find odd.

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?

Quin Wilgy does as Wilgy is. While I don't know what he's doing, in my experience that's somewhat the norm for him. I feel like the amount of conjecture we could do regarding the tasks is nearly infinite, so I'd rather not focus on that line.

Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.

Enrique others might not share this sentiment but it irks me when votes are explained away with "it was a joke" statements. I also attain an irked state when defenses consist of "I'm town" and nothing else. Statements like those showcase both zero credibility and zero effort.

Ika usually having a working knowledge of the roles in a given game can help you determine motivations and possible underlying intentions behind certain statements or actions. A game without any night protections whatsoever would have to be played differently than one with several. And this could just be me again, but I have personally never seen anything remotely fruitful come of asking the question "are you town" and I doubt I ever will. The only answer that question provides is that the one asking it is attempting to appear inquisitive.

Wilgy I can safely assume it was to gauge reactions, or I can dangerously assume it was to evoke a specific one.

Matt the implications of light green on a rainbow and not voting for someone aren't the same. As I understand it rainbow lists usually only have 5 colors, but a thinking person doesn't have only 5 states of suspicion they put the other players into.

Diiny I like your sense of humor.

Luffy regarding Tranq & spirityo I agree with you. Voicing support for something is fine, but to have the only thing to your name be a "linki- yeah let's do that" isn't a good thing.

Sloonei that cop-out pun was horrible. Thank you.

At the risk of appearing as if I'm defending Golden, I feel like Luffy & Sloonei are both putting words in his mouth after Matt's post. His only non-null read (he said, specifically, color on the rainbow so I might be misinterpreting) was Long Con and then shortly after said he didn't want to vote for 7 players. He didn't say he thinks they're town, necessarily. I can see where they don't like Golden's actions but there is a distinction between town read and "rather not vote X" that is being ignored.

Wilgy, I see that your ping is ponged. Would you mind circulating it my way?

Gleam I disagree with you on the point that pointing out how people are acting in this game as opposed to previous is "literally" all you can do on the first day. It doesn't take a precedent of action Y in previous games to determine that action X in this game doesn't look good.

Matt both Luffy & Sloonei used your points to pressure Golden but you missed it. After having played a game with you I was under the impression you would be on the lookout for anyone supporting you, but that's not the case here.

Gleam the problem of minimizing civilian deaths in this format is that we're "outnumbered" from the beginning. While it's preferable to dispose of scum first, each individual team from the beginning has more enemies than allies. Statistically speaking, trying to save civilians on day 1 when you yourself act as if there's very little information on day 1, is a poor decision.

Wilgy the irony of your avatar combined with "getting the heebee jeebees from [me]" is not lost on me. Also going to reiterate your statement, what are everyone's thoughts on me? And again, I informed you that my presence would be scarce this weekend so if you're in any way surprised that I was missing for a long period of time then that's on you.

Diiny being cautious about one's appearance isn't scum in and of itself.

"People like yourself are a pretty common trope in movie bad guys. They have some ideal that may even be morally sympathetic to the viewer, but you still use the end to justify your means of sacrificing a few innocent lives along the way. I think that is the wrong attitude."
Gleam this isn't some life-or-death survival game where he's sacrificed your crippled sister to better his odds of winning. Mislynches are going to happen, statistically. I guarantee you the number of games won without mislynches is smaller than the number of games won with them. And, again, this game in particular there are three teams and only one can win, so that makes the logic hole in your mission statement even larger.

Wilgy just because I didn't put a question at the end of that statement doesn't mean I wasn't looking for an answer. With what I know of you I assumed you would respond to that statement as is, and sure enough you did. What's the problem? Also I have to thank you for reminding me that Scotty never answered my question. Scotty made a small list of 3 players that hadn't checked in, but didn't include my name when at that point I hadn't said jack. Why or how did he miss me?

Gleam makes a good point. The normal result of players tying for a lynch vote would be both of them dying, no?

That's better.

No, that's better.

[indiglo]

I voted Bullzeye. I feel he got replaced way too fast after his vote. He took the time to catch up, vote for me, said he'll ask to be replaced, and got replaced 4 minutes after that. Feels like the arrangements to get him replaced were already set in motion before he posted and voted.

Wow. Everyone checked in. I'm impressed.

I will bet my [hopefully] unborn child that the 30 person coordinated vote will not work out. There will be too many no-shows. There always is in these games.

No-shows could get replaced. I see no harm in trying Wilgy's plan. For science!

Of the low posters, Tranq's only post here seems very bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Will continue to scan the thread but he's going to get my vote right now.

Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed? I haven't heard that one before. What do you mean by that?

I am still catching up, but saw this sort of directed at me I guess, so I thought I'd respond.

I was actually contacted BEFORE the game began, and told there was a player that probably wouldn't even be able to play at all. I said ok, I'm game to sub in from Day 0. Then I was contacted again saying that wasn't needed after all, said player was going to play. Shortly thereafter I was contacted AGAIN and told I was still needed after all, so I was plugged in before I even got the role info, etc. My replacement status was posted in the thread before I had even seen my PM inbox or gotten my role, because I was kind of on standby.

I have no idea if the original player I was going to replace from Day 0 was Bullz, or another player. But at any rate, my replacement status was locked in pretty early, apparently because someone (Bullz or not, I wasn't told) thought they wouldn't be able to play from the get go.

Hopefully this makes sense.


Linki...

[Scotty]

Yo Fuzz. On your last point there:
I just totally missed you. I read and reread everyone in the post history and tried to do it on my phone between scenes backstage while doing my show. Sorry!

Also, as a more or less serious note, my very first online Mafia game someone suggested we lynch you day 1, and I helped accomplish that. Didn't work out too well. Maybe it's an unconscious thing that I missed you?

[RadicalFuzz]

I'm writing this as I'm reading, so if some points have already been addressed then ignore me.

Spoiler: show

Quin the assumption that anybody acting strange, presumably to perform a task, should be a town read is something I find odd.

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?

Quin Wilgy does as Wilgy is. While I don't know what he's doing, in my experience that's somewhat the norm for him. I feel like the amount of conjecture we could do regarding the tasks is nearly infinite, so I'd rather not focus on that line.

Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.

Enrique others might not share this sentiment but it irks me when votes are explained away with "it was a joke" statements. I also attain an irked state when defenses consist of "I'm town" and nothing else. Statements like those showcase both zero credibility and zero effort.

Ika usually having a working knowledge of the roles in a given game can help you determine motivations and possible underlying intentions behind certain statements or actions. A game without any night protections whatsoever would have to be played differently than one with several. And this could just be me again, but I have personally never seen anything remotely fruitful come of asking the question "are you town" and I doubt I ever will. The only answer that question provides is that the one asking it is attempting to appear inquisitive.

Wilgy I can safely assume it was to gauge reactions, or I can dangerously assume it was to evoke a specific one.

Matt the implications of light green on a rainbow and not voting for someone aren't the same. As I understand it rainbow lists usually only have 5 colors, but a thinking person doesn't have only 5 states of suspicion they put the other players into.

Diiny I like your sense of humor.

Luffy regarding Tranq & spirityo I agree with you. Voicing support for something is fine, but to have the only thing to your name be a "linki- yeah let's do that" isn't a good thing.

Sloonei that cop-out pun was horrible. Thank you.

At the risk of appearing as if I'm defending Golden, I feel like Luffy & Sloonei are both putting words in his mouth after Matt's post. His only non-null read (he said, specifically, color on the rainbow so I might be misinterpreting) was Long Con and then shortly after said he didn't want to vote for 7 players. He didn't say he thinks they're town, necessarily. I can see where they don't like Golden's actions but there is a distinction between town read and "rather not vote X" that is being ignored.

Wilgy, I see that your ping is ponged. Would you mind circulating it my way?

Gleam I disagree with you on the point that pointing out how people are acting in this game as opposed to previous is "literally" all you can do on the first day. It doesn't take a precedent of action Y in previous games to determine that action X in this game doesn't look good.

Matt both Luffy & Sloonei used your points to pressure Golden but you missed it. After having played a game with you I was under the impression you would be on the lookout for anyone supporting you, but that's not the case here.

Gleam the problem of minimizing civilian deaths in this format is that we're "outnumbered" from the beginning. While it's preferable to dispose of scum first, each individual team from the beginning has more enemies than allies. Statistically speaking, trying to save civilians on day 1 when you yourself act as if there's very little information on day 1, is a poor decision.

Wilgy the irony of your avatar combined with "getting the heebee jeebees from [me]" is not lost on me. Also going to reiterate your statement, what are everyone's thoughts on me? And again, I informed you that my presence would be scarce this weekend so if you're in any way surprised that I was missing for a long period of time then that's on you.

Diiny being cautious about one's appearance isn't scum in and of itself.

"People like yourself are a pretty common trope in movie bad guys. They have some ideal that may even be morally sympathetic to the viewer, but you still use the end to justify your means of sacrificing a few innocent lives along the way. I think that is the wrong attitude."
Gleam this isn't some life-or-death survival game where he's sacrificed your crippled sister to better his odds of winning. Mislynches are going to happen, statistically. I guarantee you the number of games won without mislynches is smaller than the number of games won with them. And, again, this game in particular there are three teams and only one can win, so that makes the logic hole in your mission statement even larger.

Wilgy just because I didn't put a question at the end of that statement doesn't mean I wasn't looking for an answer. With what I know of you I assumed you would respond to that statement as is, and sure enough you did. What's the problem? Also I have to thank you for reminding me that Scotty never answered my question. Scotty made a small list of 3 players that hadn't checked in, but didn't include my name when at that point I hadn't said jack. Why or how did he miss me?

Gleam makes a good point. The normal result of players tying for a lynch vote would be both of them dying, no?

That's better.

No, that's better.

Rude.

And Scotty, it's all good, mostly just curious as to if you had missed me or were intentionally avoiding me.

And that must've been JTM. I'm the Day 1 lynch-ee of choice there.

[Scotty]

I'm writing this as I'm reading, so if some points have already been addressed then ignore me.

Spoiler: show

Quin the assumption that anybody acting strange, presumably to perform a task, should be a town read is something I find odd.

Luffy are you concerned about getting heat for unfamiliarity, is that why you're calling Soneji to the stand to testify to your behavior?

Quin Wilgy does as Wilgy is. While I don't know what he's doing, in my experience that's somewhat the norm for him. I feel like the amount of conjecture we could do regarding the tasks is nearly infinite, so I'd rather not focus on that line.

Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.

Enrique others might not share this sentiment but it irks me when votes are explained away with "it was a joke" statements. I also attain an irked state when defenses consist of "I'm town" and nothing else. Statements like those showcase both zero credibility and zero effort.

Ika usually having a working knowledge of the roles in a given game can help you determine motivations and possible underlying intentions behind certain statements or actions. A game without any night protections whatsoever would have to be played differently than one with several. And this could just be me again, but I have personally never seen anything remotely fruitful come of asking the question "are you town" and I doubt I ever will. The only answer that question provides is that the one asking it is attempting to appear inquisitive.

Wilgy I can safely assume it was to gauge reactions, or I can dangerously assume it was to evoke a specific one.

Matt the implications of light green on a rainbow and not voting for someone aren't the same. As I understand it rainbow lists usually only have 5 colors, but a thinking person doesn't have only 5 states of suspicion they put the other players into.

Diiny I like your sense of humor.

Luffy regarding Tranq & spirityo I agree with you. Voicing support for something is fine, but to have the only thing to your name be a "linki- yeah let's do that" isn't a good thing.

Sloonei that cop-out pun was horrible. Thank you.

At the risk of appearing as if I'm defending Golden, I feel like Luffy & Sloonei are both putting words in his mouth after Matt's post. His only non-null read (he said, specifically, color on the rainbow so I might be misinterpreting) was Long Con and then shortly after said he didn't want to vote for 7 players. He didn't say he thinks they're town, necessarily. I can see where they don't like Golden's actions but there is a distinction between town read and "rather not vote X" that is being ignored.

Wilgy, I see that your ping is ponged. Would you mind circulating it my way?

Gleam I disagree with you on the point that pointing out how people are acting in this game as opposed to previous is "literally" all you can do on the first day. It doesn't take a precedent of action Y in previous games to determine that action X in this game doesn't look good.

Matt both Luffy & Sloonei used your points to pressure Golden but you missed it. After having played a game with you I was under the impression you would be on the lookout for anyone supporting you, but that's not the case here.

Gleam the problem of minimizing civilian deaths in this format is that we're "outnumbered" from the beginning. While it's preferable to dispose of scum first, each individual team from the beginning has more enemies than allies. Statistically speaking, trying to save civilians on day 1 when you yourself act as if there's very little information on day 1, is a poor decision.

Wilgy the irony of your avatar combined with "getting the heebee jeebees from [me]" is not lost on me. Also going to reiterate your statement, what are everyone's thoughts on me? And again, I informed you that my presence would be scarce this weekend so if you're in any way surprised that I was missing for a long period of time then that's on you.

Diiny being cautious about one's appearance isn't scum in and of itself.

"People like yourself are a pretty common trope in movie bad guys. They have some ideal that may even be morally sympathetic to the viewer, but you still use the end to justify your means of sacrificing a few innocent lives along the way. I think that is the wrong attitude."
Gleam this isn't some life-or-death survival game where he's sacrificed your crippled sister to better his odds of winning. Mislynches are going to happen, statistically. I guarantee you the number of games won without mislynches is smaller than the number of games won with them. And, again, this game in particular there are three teams and only one can win, so that makes the logic hole in your mission statement even larger.

Wilgy just because I didn't put a question at the end of that statement doesn't mean I wasn't looking for an answer. With what I know of you I assumed you would respond to that statement as is, and sure enough you did. What's the problem? Also I have to thank you for reminding me that Scotty never answered my question. Scotty made a small list of 3 players that hadn't checked in, but didn't include my name when at that point I hadn't said jack. Why or how did he miss me?

Gleam makes a good point. The normal result of players tying for a lynch vote would be both of them dying, no?

That's better.

No, that's better.

Rude.

And Scotty, it's all good, mostly just curious as to if you had missed me or were intentionally avoiding me.

And that must've been JTM. I'm the Day 1 lynch-ee of choice there.

Yessir!

[thellama73]

Gleam makes a good point. The normal result of players tying for a lynch vote would be both of them dying, no?

[/quote]

Um... no. In what universe has that ever been true?

[RadicalFuzz]

Apologies llama, I'm not very familiar with the way ties are handled on other sites. What is the normal result of two players tying for the lynch?

[Golden]

Matt "Golden is bad because he generated reads in 11 minutes"

Golden "Yes, because Diiny posted asking for my reads and so I went down the poll list and figured out who I had reads on."

Matt "We can discuss this later tonight"

Matt: Cone of silence

Matt "Lets lynch golden today!"

@Matt - how about you respond to this:

I think that's odd.

Why? Diiny asked me to think about my reads, so I did. Putting LC on my list was reactionary to a specific post. The rest were me putting thought into the vibe I was getting from people.

C'mon dude, like I said, within 11 minutes or less you went from having your first rainbow read to declaring seven players you wouldn't vote for.

Just a small ping, but it's there.

Anyway, thanks for responding. Nobody else commented on my brilliant case

Well, I went down the entire poll list figuring out who I had reads on in those 11 minutes. Don't say come on... why is it suspicious?

It's suss because at one point, you were just entering the first player on your rainbow list, and then suddenly you felt good enough about 6 other players that you wouldn't vote for them. And in between, you were making suss face joke posts and talking off topic about Canada, so I don't know exactly how you developed those reads.

Derp. Anyway, gotta go. If we're both still around, we can discuss this later tonight.

Do you know exactly how anyone else developed their reads? If you genuinely found any of them suspicious and wanted to test how I generated them, why not do as sloonei did and ask about the specific reads, instead of pointing out the timing to the world and just calling it 'odd'? I could have told you why I had a slight town lean on any of them.

Your suspicion of me feels to me way more like trying to get others to see me in a strange light, and far less like you actually found something suspicious.

[Golden]

Apologies llama, I'm not very familiar with the way ties are handled on other sites. What is the normal result of two players tying for the lynch?

It can be handled different ways, but usually all of those ways are about determining which of them are lynched (or sometimes, no lynch at all). I don't think I've ever played a game here where both are lynched. Most games ties are determined by simple coin flip. Sometimes how ties are decided is found in the game rules.

[thellama73]

Apologies llama, I'm not very familiar with the way ties are handled on other sites. What is the normal result of two players tying for the lynch?

At the Syndicate, most of the time it is decided randomly between the two players with the most votes. I have also seen no lynches happen in case of ties once or twice, but that seems to have fallen out of fashion. I don't remember ever playing a game where both parties were lynched.