[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

#1401

Matt wrote:Okey dokey, indiglo.

I've played a lot of games with Golden. He's a pretty spectacular hunter, if I may say so myself, but in this game...zilch.

My initial ping on him was the "quick reads" thing, then the omgus, and then he put a vote on me right when day started, hasn't said much since. Feels like he's layin' low cuz I know he's active in at least one other game.

Considering moving my vote to gleam. I have no idea if ika is good or bad, but he's new, and I feel like people are picking on him because of the aforementioned frolicking between himself and Silverwolf.

Linki - Hi Zeebs! We haven't sparred yet so far. What do you think of Supatown MVP Golden not having any suspects, omgusing me, then layin' low for the rest of the phase?

have you considted the point that he is simply very busy right now and doesn't have to the time to be as deeply as involved as normal, and that scum Golden is not in the habit of hanging back or being afraid to cast suspicions at any point? You seem to be stuck on a Day 1 read and tunneling it hard right now. I feel like you and Golden are both town.

#1402

Matt wrote:Okey dokey, indiglo.

I've played a lot of games with Golden. He's a pretty spectacular hunter, if I may say so myself, but in this game...zilch.

My initial ping on him was the "quick reads" thing, then the omgus, and then he put a vote on me right when day started, hasn't said much since. Feels like he's layin' low cuz I know he's active in at least one other game.

Considering moving my vote to gleam. I have no idea if ika is good or bad, but he's new, and I feel like people are picking on him because of the aforementioned frolicking between himself and Silverwolf.

Linki - Hi Zeebs! We haven't sparred yet so far. What do you think of Supatown MVP Golden not having any suspects, omgusing me, then layin' low for the rest of the phase?

have you considered the points that he is simply very busy right now and doesn't have to the time to be as deeply as involved as normal, and that scum Golden is not in the habit of hanging back or being afraid to cast suspicions at any point? You seem to be stuck on a Day 1 read and tunneling it hard right now. I feel like you and Golden are both town.

#1403

Turnip Head wrote:Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad

Said post was actually used to argue that Ika is not bad. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

#1404

Did I just double post? I didn't even know that was an option here. Oops

#1405

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad
Said post was actually used to argue that Ika is not bad. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

And I still don't get that, by the way

#1406

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad
Said post was actually used to argue that Ika is not bad. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

No I saw what you were saying. I didn't realize before your post that he's on record playing like this in a game where he's bad. I'm considering that for my own read independent of your read.

#1407

RadicalFuzz wrote:Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Thanks.

About your read on me, I have noticed this tendency of mine to try to reach to conclusions. I think it's because I'm an engineer and I'm used to deal with things as a combination of parameters that must be used to obtain a result. I try to rationalize and explain my decisions in order to justify my reads. That behavior has had underwhelming results over the past few games, so I'm actually trying to tone that down.

The way you play is atypical, but you don't seem malicious. I'm moving back to gleam.

#1408

Lol indi. Sorry, the supatown MVP thing was nothing from you, I believe Golden just won several awards @ Socky's, so that's why I keep saying that. Even without the awards, though, Golden is a supatown kinda player, so for him to have zilch with the exception of the "no u Matt" feels weird. If there were two mafia in this game, it wouldn't feel so bad, but considering there is only one mafia, yeah...I'm feeling Golden is having a tough time generating fake reads.

Anyway, I can see where you're coming from with "Matt is making shiz up" but it's really just how I feel. If that earns your vote, dat's cool though.

Nobody seems to wanna join a Golden train, switching to gleam for ika's sake.

Sloonei - Yeah, I know Golden's busy. Doesn't make me feel better that he's wasting his vote on me because he thinks I'm "generating my own town meta" or whatever. Also, if Golden really thought I was bad, I would expect him to be cheerleading my lynch, but nah, he's cool sittin' in the shadows till day is over apparently.

#1409

Voted RadicalFuzz. No reason.

#1410

@ Matt: You acknowledge that he's busy but then also accuse him of lurking and avoiding participation?

#1411

Too many votes spread out still, and some people haven't voted at all.

I go back and forth with the different factions of suspicion. I see legitimate cases that I feel like I want to gravitate to (llama's on DDL comes to mind) but I am all torn up with who I suspect more out of everyone.

Did ika just up and quit? I saw Silver coming back to defend herself, but no ika.

I'm gonna be honest and say I haven't had the inkling to ISO particular people because of timing on my part, and because this game is still so big and spread out.

I have a feeling Wilgy is good, I think that gleam has been pretty calm under circumstances, but then moved his vote around multiple times to essentially save himself without saying that he was saving himself. I'm still fine keeping it where it is and hope whatever comes of the lynch tonight is fruitful for mafia (that's so weird to say)

#1412

Sloonei wrote:@ Matt: You acknowledge that he's busy but then also accuse him of lurking and avoiding participation?

Yup.

#1413

Voting Epignosis for the time. I don't have much to go on, but I've got a bad gut read of him, I also don't see the gleam lynch what so ever. I think between Gleam and Ika, Ika is more likely to be bad.

#1414

Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad
Said post was actually used to argue that Ika is not bad. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
And I still don't get that, by the way

There are different ways a player can be scummy. The way he was in that game he played was borderline suicidal. He antagonized everyone and didn't answer anything. A player could be scummy by trying to look like town, he wasn't trying at all.

One possible explanation is that he was just not giving a crap because he was put in a desperate situation. That explanation was shot down by this game we are playing, where his situation wasn't desperate at start.

A second possibility is that is just the way he plays as scum.

The third possible explanation is that this is the way he always plays regardless of alignment, which differences not being that easy to spot.

And I feel like it's the third. The second would mean he is a terrible scum player, as that his scum meta would be very different from his town meta. I don't think that's the case, he seems good enough at the game.

#1415

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Ika a little less so after I saw a post from someone (Luffy, I think) comparing his style here to a game he was bad
Said post was actually used to argue that Ika is not bad. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
And I still don't get that, by the way
There are different ways a player can be scummy. The way he was in that game he played was borderline suicidal. He antagonized everyone and didn't answer anything. A player could be scummy by trying to look like town, he wasn't trying at all.

One possible explanation is that he was just not giving a crap because he was put in a desperate situation. That explanation was shot down by this game we are playing, where his situation wasn't desperate at start.

A second possibility is that is just the way he plays as scum.

The third possible explanation is that this is the way he always plays regardless of alignment, which differences not being that easy to spot.

And I feel like it's the third. The second would mean he is a terrible scum player, as that his scum meta would be very different from his town meta. I don't think that's the case, he seems good enough at the game.

Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. He is still a leading candidate to receive my vote today.

#1416

@Soneji:

Any more reads? I miss your walls of reads.

#1417

ika are you a baddie?

#1418

Matt wrote:Lol indi. Sorry, the supatown MVP thing was nothing from you, I believe Golden just won several awards @ Socky's, so that's why I keep saying that. Even without the awards, though, Golden is a supatown kinda player, so for him to have zilch with the exception of the "no u Matt" feels weird. If there were two mafia in this game, it wouldn't feel so bad, but considering there is only one mafia, yeah...I'm feeling Golden is having a tough time generating fake reads.

Anyway, I can see where you're coming from with "Matt is making shiz up" but it's really just how I feel. If that earns your vote, dat's cool though.

Nobody seems to wanna join a Golden train, switching to gleam for ika's sake.

Sloonei - Yeah, I know Golden's busy. Doesn't make me feel better that he's wasting his vote on me because he thinks I'm "generating my own town meta" or whatever. Also, if Golden really thought I was bad, I would expect him to be cheerleading my lynch, but nah, he's cool sittin' in the shadows till day is over apparently.

Thank you. This makes me feel significantly better. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. And with that additional knowledge, I can better understand where you are coming from.

Still pondering what to do with my vote. Leaving it on Matt seems like a throw away at this point, but I don't feel any of the other leading competitors.

Let me just guess... linki?

#1419

sig wrote:Voting Epignosis for the time. I don't have much to go on, but I've got a bad gut read of him, I also don't see the gleam lynch what so ever. I think between Gleam and Ika, Ika is more likely to be bad.

Before you were pinged by me, and now you vote for my accuser? Don´t get me wrong, Im happy that you don´t find me suspicious anymore, but this looks a tad opportunistic to me

#1420

Hmm... Opportunistic is not the word Im looking for. I don´t know. Sig did a 180-turn with that vote.

I feel handicapped by the fact that English isn´t my native language.

#1421

At this point I feel comfortable enough with voting either Epi or ika but will probably hold off on actually putting my vote on one of them so as to not influence the way other people vote. I assume the tally is going go come down between those two and Gleam, and I once again am compelled to vote for someone who's not Gleam, and I expect others to be voting to save one candidate or another (just like me) at the end of the day.
I'd rather see how other people decide before commiting my own vote. In a pre-emptive defense for when people accuse me of not being able to make up my mind and/or waffling/fence-sitting: yeah, you're absolutely right, but it's not for a lack of commitment. I am commited to the lynch of either one of those two, I just want it to be whichever one is more widely supported by everyone else.

#1422

Nerolunar wrote:Hmm... Opportunistic is not the word Im looking for. I don´t know. Sig did a 180-turn with that vote.

I feel handicapped by the fact that English isn´t my native language.

Don't be, you're doing great and have absolutely no trouble understanding you.

#1423

You know...

I think I'm going to switch my vote back to Golden. I don't want ika to die, but I have zero read on gleam and think it's unfair to sacrifice him for a noob.

Show of hands, who here has played with Golden in a game with only one mafia and has seen him only generate civ reads in that game and his only suss is a No U, and he was civvie at the time?

......

No takers?

Linki - Agree with Sloonei. Keep on keepin' on, Nero!

#1424

Sloonei wrote:At this point I feel comfortable enough with voting either Epi or ika but will probably hold off on actually putting my vote on one of them so as to not influence the way other people vote. I assume the tally is going go come down between those two and Gleam, and I once again am compelled to vote for someone who's not Gleam, and I expect others to be voting to save one candidate or another (just like me) at the end of the day.
I'd rather see how other people decide before commiting my own vote. In a pre-emptive defense for when people accuse me of not being able to make up my mind and/or waffling/fence-sitting: yeah, you're absolutely right, but it's not for a lack of commitment. I am commited to the lynch of either one of those two, I just want it to be whichever one is more widely supported by everyone else.

But of course I'm not taking anyone else off the table yet. I just don't see enough votes turning in any other direction to get anyone outside of that trio at this point, so that's where I'll likely be concentrating my vote.

#1425

Thanks. Im doing my best, but sometimes I have trouble coming up with words that fit. Im glad to hear that you understand what Im trying to say.

#1426

Nerolunar wrote:Thanks. Im doing my best, but sometimes I have trouble coming up with words that fit. Im glad to hear that you understand what Im trying to say.

that nevar stoiped mee

#1427

I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

#1428

Me neither.

Mafia is a great way of practicing English.

#1429

Matt wrote:You know...

I think I'm going to switch my vote back to Golden. I don't want ika to die, but I have zero read on gleam and think it's unfair to sacrifice him for a noob.

Show of hands, who here has played with Golden in a game with only one mafia and has seen him only generate civ reads in that game and his only suss is a No U, and he was civvie at the time?

......

No takers?

Linki - Agree with Sloonei. Keep on keepin' on, Nero!

what about epi?

#1430

Nerolunar wrote:Hmm... Opportunistic is not the word Im looking for. I don´t know. Sig did a 180-turn with that vote.

I feel handicapped by the fact that English isn´t my native language.

I think opportunistic is the right word, or at the very least I understand the point your making. Your right is it a little bit of a switch, however I no longer suspect you and I have voiced doubts about Epi for awhile. I don't really like either of the two leading lynches which also helped me make up my mind. However, the fact that Ike has vanished makes me more willing to vote for him.

Also dw Nero your doing fine English wise.

linki: Serge make sure you also vote in the poll.

#1431

Voted in the poll, thanks!

#1432

Yup no problem.

#1433

RadicalFuzz wrote:Do you disagree with their assessments?

I do.

#1434

a2thezebra wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Do you disagree with their assessments?
I do.

How so?

#1435

Matt wrote: Linki - Hi Zeebs! We haven't sparred yet so far. What do you think of Supatown MVP Golden not having any suspects, omgusing me, then layin' low for the rest of the phase?

I think you're misrepresenting as usual. But you do this regardless of alignment so I don't feel like sparring with you over it.

#1436

Sloonei wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Do you disagree with their assessments?
I do.
How so?

I've suspected him since early on in the game. I feel like the assessments that his meta is off are either to justify similar gut reads or are simply disingenuous, because meta-wise I don't see anything out of the ordinary for him in this game.

#1437

Enrique wrote:ika are you a baddie?

Are you?

#1438

Im going to bed now

Im reading Serge as civ. I would like to hear more from you.

#1439

Serge, you just put ika in the lead over an Epi lynch.

#1440

indiglo wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.
I actually disagree with you on all 3 of these vote prospects. I haven't seen anything from SVS yet that reads scummy, Epi's response to my questions has satisfied me for now, and I won't be voting ika because I think it's mean.

I was actually leaning towards perhaps a Matt vote, but then he posted this:

Matt wrote:'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!
And actually Quin read funny to me too. I just ISO'd (oh man, it feels weird to type that and not say I did a Quin re-read) and something felt funny. He kind of jumped around from suspicion to suspicion, not really holding on to any of them, and deciding to change his vote when his previous suspicion didn't gain any traction. Quin, I'm not sure have a concrete question to ask you, but I'd like to hear anything you can provide as to your thinking or developing of suspicions.

Then as I think about it, I wonder if my weirdness meter is actually tweaked because you changed your vote so many times. And that all goes back to my old school ways - one vote and you're done for the day. And I gather that with changeable votes, it seems to be encouraged to move them as many times as you can, making your first few changes null and void. In that case, my not voting yet may look strange to someone used to changeable votes.

I did notice Quin mentioned Enrique, so I'm happy to check there to see if I see what Quin saw. Ah, there I do have my first concrete question for you - How are you feeling about Enrique now? And what changed/affected your mind?

I also think it's a little strange to see the Tranq NA (Night Arrest) and then immediately assume Scotty did it and is a cop, and try to push that idea. Maybe it seems a little opportunistic? Do you still believe that to be the case Quin? (That Scotty NA'd Tranq, that is.)

Planning to look over Golden's posts now to see if anything feels funny. Also cannot wait to see how much linki there will be...

Yep, tons. Will post then read.

I feel as though all of my votes thus far have been pretty well reasoned. With ika on Day 1, I made it clear that I found the initial vote for Silverwolf was suspicious, given the context of the whole traitor/don situation, but I did take Silverwolfs word for it that it was not atypical behaviour for him. My current vote is all about his tight-lippedness. Withholding information like this isn't a town-move.

I am not entirely sure how I think about Enrique, now. His actions in the thread were very fishy to me, from his vote to his justifications, but the way he responded to me when I questioned him felt good to me. I think if I ran out of options I'd return to him, but there are currently better candidates out there at the moment.

I do still have that suspicion for Scotty. People keep saying they disagree, but nobody is presenting any viable alternatives. I can't agree with things like 'too opportunistic' or 'too convenient'. There is a reason why Tranq was the target over somebody else, y'no? I've changed my vote from him on account of this, but I am still adamant on the fact that I believe him to be a good lynch. If you wonder why I'm voting ika instead of Scotty, I'd answer that it's because I don't support a gleam lynch, and I am sufficiently suspicious of ika to warrant hopping on a bandwagon. Well, since Sloonei jumped off I guess that means I'm leading it?

#1441

Quin wrote:
indiglo wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.
I actually disagree with you on all 3 of these vote prospects. I haven't seen anything from SVS yet that reads scummy, Epi's response to my questions has satisfied me for now, and I won't be voting ika because I think it's mean.

I was actually leaning towards perhaps a Matt vote, but then he posted this:

Matt wrote:'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!
And actually Quin read funny to me too. I just ISO'd (oh man, it feels weird to type that and not say I did a Quin re-read) and something felt funny. He kind of jumped around from suspicion to suspicion, not really holding on to any of them, and deciding to change his vote when his previous suspicion didn't gain any traction. Quin, I'm not sure have a concrete question to ask you, but I'd like to hear anything you can provide as to your thinking or developing of suspicions.

Then as I think about it, I wonder if my weirdness meter is actually tweaked because you changed your vote so many times. And that all goes back to my old school ways - one vote and you're done for the day. And I gather that with changeable votes, it seems to be encouraged to move them as many times as you can, making your first few changes null and void. In that case, my not voting yet may look strange to someone used to changeable votes.

I did notice Quin mentioned Enrique, so I'm happy to check there to see if I see what Quin saw. Ah, there I do have my first concrete question for you - How are you feeling about Enrique now? And what changed/affected your mind?

I also think it's a little strange to see the Tranq NA (Night Arrest) and then immediately assume Scotty did it and is a cop, and try to push that idea. Maybe it seems a little opportunistic? Do you still believe that to be the case Quin? (That Scotty NA'd Tranq, that is.)

Planning to look over Golden's posts now to see if anything feels funny. Also cannot wait to see how much linki there will be...

Yep, tons. Will post then read.
I feel as though all of my votes thus far have been pretty well reasoned. With ika on Day 1, I made it clear that I found the initial vote for Silverwolf was suspicious, given the context of the whole traitor/don situation, but I did take Silverwolfs word for it that it was not atypical behaviour for him. My current vote is all about his tight-lippedness. Withholding information like this isn't a town-move.

I am not entirely sure how I think about Enrique, now. His actions in the thread were very fishy to me, from his vote to his justifications, but the way he responded to me when I questioned him felt good to me. I think if I ran out of options I'd return to him, but there are currently better candidates out there at the moment.

I do still have that suspicion for Scotty. People keep saying they disagree, but nobody is presenting any viable alternatives. I can't agree with things like 'too opportunistic' or 'too convenient'. There is a reason why Tranq was the target over somebody else, y'no? I've changed my vote from him on account of this, but I am still adamant on the fact that I believe him to be a good lynch. If you wonder why I'm voting ika instead of Scotty, I'd answer that it's because I don't support a gleam lynch, and I am sufficiently suspicious of ika to warrant hopping on a bandwagon. Well, since Sloonei jumped off I guess that means I'm leading it?

Careful Quin, or I might name you my biggest suspicion heading into the next day.

We all know what happens when I name someone as my biggest suspicion...

#1442

I haven't left the ika wagon, don't worry. Just moving my vote around on the poll for strategic reasons.

#1443

Sloonei wrote:I haven't left the ika wagon, don't worry. Just moving my vote around on the poll for strategic reasons.

#1444

Matt wrote:You know...

I think I'm going to switch my vote back to Golden. I don't want ika to die, but I have zero read on gleam and think it's unfair to sacrifice him for a noob.

Show of hands, who here has played with Golden in a game with only one mafia and has seen him only generate civ reads in that game and his only suss is a No U, and he was civvie at the time?

......

No takers?

Linki - Agree with Sloonei. Keep on keepin' on, Nero!

I just read the first page of Golden's ISO and have no problems with his play or even him generating civ reads. Golden is on the record as a civ saying civ reads are important to share. His NO U of you looks fine to me because he defended his own behavior while showing how you were unwilling to adapt your read to account for his (IMO) reasonable defenses to the points you're making. I believe you both genuinely suspect each other.

Next time on Turf Wars: Matt thinks Turnip Head and Golden are teammates

#1445

Its sad for me to wake up to see that im still getting voted for how im playing.

Ill catch up shortly if i feel like it, although i feel like it wont do much. jsut leave silver alone after my town flip

#1446

If ika flips town, I'm gonna lose a lot of motivation to play. I mean at this point serge coming in here and voting him for no reason is annoying enough, but I feel a lot of the reasoning on ika has to do with his overall playstyle and the fact that he plays differently, and that just looks like policy to me which is not a good way to welcome new players on the site. I'm very demoralized by this.

#1447

I'm just doing a catch up now but based on what I've seen so far I'll put a vote on gleam if its deciding between gleam and ika. I don't know either of them, but what I've seen from them I feel like ika is more misunderstood and gleam is more objective baddie behaviour.

#1448

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Ika hasn't posted since yesterday, I'm worried he might be one of the people asking to be replaced. I hope we didn't bully him out of the game.

We can discuss this post game, im not replacing out but the later is what feels like is happening.

#1449

Fucking Xanatos.

#1450

Enrique wrote:ika are you a baddie?

I wish i was. i might have more fun then

It's over! Would you play a sequel?