[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Marmot]

Alright, finished page 35 and I need sleep. Will finish tomorrow.

[Silverwolf]

Both sig and Enrique read as frustrated town that was just wrong on the Fuzz lynch. Enrique more than sig. I'm not all that confident they are scum. I think the best thing to do is look for associative tells between Fuzz and others to see if there is anything suspicious. I'm not doing that tonight however. Too tired and in desperate need of sleep.

Quin-I'm reading your posts as over explanatory and a little too defensive over the Fuzz lynch.

Golden-I do feel you are a little too eager to pin certain players as scum mates with Fuzz and I'm not so sure scum would be this obvious about it. I do think we need to be careful making assumptions like, they defended fuzz and are therefore scum. Or they voted ika, and are therefore trying to save a scum mate.

It can end up leading to mislynches.

I really disagree here. I'm just covering every base which is what I've been doing ever since the game began. I ask a lot of questions and I give openings to continue discussion. I think you've seen that.

Let me ask you, Silver. You're commenting on a lot of things that I'm doing but you're not necessarily being vocal about whether you see me as civ or as scum. What do you think my alignment is? Which family do you think I'm from? Do you think I'll ever get a girlfriend?

I don't think you are scum. You seem like a nice guy. I'm sure you'll get a girlfriend.

As a side note, yes I have insomnia right now.

[a2thezebra]

Switching to Fuzz for the time being.

I would definitely like to hear from him / her before EoD if possible.

I did recently get mislynched in a CFD in Rocky & Bullwinkle, and it sucked. I prefer people to be able to defend against votes, but I also prefer not to be forced to vote for someone I don't want to vote for in order for my vote to mean something.


Linki up the wazoo here too! Weeeeee!

I don't know indi much at all, but this sort of behavior just seems natural to come from her. Is this correct?

Linki: why your posts so short zeebs?

I get paid by the post, not by the word.

[a2thezebra]

I'm not Dickens.

[Marmot]

Also, post # 2,000. Wot wot!

Linki: goddamitttttytttf 73rd gdd

[Marmot]

I'm not Dickens.

And I'm not Holmes.

[Golden]

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Still on page 32 (I think) nut wanted to bring up a few things.

Silverwolf looks good, she brought Fuzz to the table firat. Ika looks less good for his immediate agreement. Not bad, just less good. SVS looks great for her immediate research despite being behind.


But Golden pings me here. Right around Fuzz's vote, Golden suggests a CFD. Also, when the others started talking about Fuzz, Golden mentioned 4 other names for possible CFD candidates: Serge, Matt, Wilgy, and DDL. DDL's mention wasn't explicit, but he called him continually more scummy for his posts.

Am I being paranoid? I realize I still have several pages to, but just voicing my thoughts here.

Didn't I actually explicitly say fuzz in the same post I expicitly said serge? I could be remembering wrong.

[Golden]

Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Indeed I did.

So marmot, you say I 'implied one on do' but miss the fact I explicitly said fuzz, I'm pretty sure this was before svs made her find too.

[Golden]

I guess I fully earned this paranoia but in all seriousness, I've never suddenly and out of nowhere pushed for a cfd just to bus my own teammate. My busses have come with a lot of legwork to them, so they look genuine and clean. I don't really understand why anyone would or could think it makes sense for any of fuzz's teammates to be among those who made the strong push. There's no logic to doing that.

[Serge]

Wow, that lynch came out from nowhere. The poll would have me believe that ika got lynched but the first page isn't updated yet. I'm not really sure what happened there. I'll catch up in an hour or two, hopefully.

[Serge]

If ika flips town, I'm gonna lose a lot of motivation to play. I mean at this point serge coming in here and voting him for no reason is annoying enough, but I feel a lot of the reasoning on ika has to do with his overall playstyle and the fact that he plays differently, and that just looks like policy to me which is not a good way to welcome new players on the site. I'm very demoralized by this.

For what it's worth, I'm probably newer than any of the players here despite of my join date. I thought and I still do think that ika is scummy. Please don't take whatever I do as what's normal around here. I hope both you and ika still play after this game.

As for there being no reason, ika's antics show someone relatively leaning more towards scum, and as I don't have a good grasp of everyone at that point in time, he really stood out to me, hence my vote. Also, I wanted to lynch someone, and since that was a possibility with ika I took it.

I hope if I ever offended you that you'll forgive me.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy, he who knows Fuzz more then anyone...I've only played with Fuzz once or twice, I think he was civ every time, but he strikes me as someone who would fight harder as a mafia. I'm wondering if he just laid down and took it for Golden's sake. Is that a possibility, Wilgy, or have I reached full tunnel express on Golden now?

I don't think it was a matter of how hard he fights. He was just busy and I think that caused a disconnect from the thread. (I still haven't read the thread)

[DrWilgy]

And on the subject of Fuzz's team. It's odd that in that clusterdoodle that no one else decided to toss a vote towards Epi. If Epi was civ, I think there would've been a counter wagon formed on him.

Though... This is just based on vote layout. Correct me if there actually was a Epi boat at least 5 people strong at 1 point.

Epochgenisis... Er... Epignosis

[S~V~S]

Why are you underlining a vote at night?

[Serge]

I'm not familiar with CFD and seeing it in action made me think that the traitor plan would have had a chance to work if you're all this efficient and easy to rally.

I do not think that the scum team would all rally to save a teammate in a day as early as this, with the number of players available.

As for scum being on Fuzz's bandwagon, I think that's more likely. SVS's post against Fuzz was brief but enough to produce the CFD, and if only a few of the cops were online at that time then what better way to earn points as a civ? Also, the poll doesn't even show Fuzz as the one that has the most votes. Stroke of luck?

That being said, I still don't have a firm grasp of the details of the events leading to the lynch.

PS: DrWilgy why are you voting at night?

[S~V~S]

The point is though, there would not have been a CFD on Fuzz had he not posted that seriously baddie vote in the middle of a discussion of seeking an alternate candidate for those of us not satisfied with a lynch of any of the poll leaders.

TH brought it up, and we all were talking about it when Silver pointed out Fuzz' scummy vote. I think the shocked reactions of several people, as well as the self righteous tones people started taking after ika had more votes is very telling. I think there was some real surprise and scrambling going on. I am usually not a person to like CFDs, this is the first one I have been involved in that actually worked. But I think it worked stupendously. And I am not liking the backlash against it.

Since Fuzz finished up with less votes I think it more likely that probably all of his teammates saved him. Had it been the other way, and had he had the most votes, I might think differently.

[Silverwolf]

If ika flips town, I'm gonna lose a lot of motivation to play. I mean at this point serge coming in here and voting him for no reason is annoying enough, but I feel a lot of the reasoning on ika has to do with his overall playstyle and the fact that he plays differently, and that just looks like policy to me which is not a good way to welcome new players on the site. I'm very demoralized by this.

For what it's worth, I'm probably newer than any of the players here despite of my join date. I thought and I still do think that ika is scummy. Please don't take whatever I do as what's normal around here. I hope both you and ika still play after this game.

As for there being no reason, ika's antics show someone relatively leaning more towards scum, and as I don't have a good grasp of everyone at that point in time, he really stood out to me, hence my vote. Also, I wanted to lynch someone, and since that was a possibility with ika I took it.

I hope if I ever offended you that you'll forgive me.

It's fine. I was just frustrated with some of the reasons or lack thereof of just being "different playstyle" and felt that wasn't really alignment indicative. However, if you have legitimate reasons for scumreading him, that's not offensive in the least but part of the game. It's o.k. There is no reason he should be immune from being suspected, and there is nothing to forgive so don't worry about it at all.

[Mongoose]

So last night I check in here after 5 sometime, with like 25 mins to go. I start reading through the posts and start creating my own vote and I lose wireless (I was in the car on the way to yoga, don't worry, I wasn't driving). so then I tried at least voting 20 times, but when I pressed enter each time, it would not go through and would just give me one of those dead pages you get when you don't have wireless signal. I even borrowed a friend's phone, but I guess at some time I had changed my password, so I couldn't log in that way. I had it resent to my email, but then I'm back to the problem that I couldnt access my email on my phone because...no wireless. Let's just say I was a very stressed out, anxious kitty by the time we arrived at yoga.

I just want to empathize with those espousing how playstyle will get you in trouble when it's totally not indicative of alignment -- I can 1000% relate to this discussion.

[Mongoose]

So re the whole Ike thing I wasn't feeling the wagon, but Silver coming in and saying she won't play as much if he flips bad is pingy on many levels. It isn't fair to the players or the hosts to hold your activity up as a weapon if things aren't going your way. This might just be me but this seems like a quite scummy thing to do. How does eveyrone else feel on this?

She said if he flips town. I don't think it looks scummy from her at all, she is going in to bat against a bad lynch wagon, and so she should.

Yeah to me, I read that as someone who is getting frustrated very reasonably. Of course baddies can be frustrated, but generally it has a different timbre or color to it that I'm not getting from her right now.

[Mongoose]

I don't like this huge bandwagon on gleam, espacilly since nobody has ever actually explained their suspicion of him, or if they have I don't remember it.

I've got a slight mafia gut read on Wilgy.

Also I find it odd how quite Zebra/LC seem to be this game.

I agree with this. I am mostly caught up and I really don't understand how Gleam has so many votes so early in the day. I understand votes are changeable but with this level it's making a statement and I don't understand the case.

This is where I'm at. Scotty's vote seems questionable to me, I haven't looked at the other votes in depth yet. Scotty said he was voting for Gleam "Because", and then when asked to elaborate, he said:

As for me voting gleam: it's mostly a continuation suspicion of my night 1 eyeing of him for being a floppy pancake. But I'm far too lazy to look it up right now. About to enter a poker tournament.

This isn't just. Throwaway vote on a wagon. It's just gut, and he happens to have a bunch of votes piles on as well, so there's that.

So idk, but putting the sixth vote on a wagon more than 24 hours before the lynch deadline, when it doesn't look like a "pressure vote" or like it's furthering the read, well it looks like it's just there. I feel like I can't judge Scotty's motives until the Day is over and I see what else he does with his vote, but right now I feel like he's just gonna keep it parked there until deadline and that feels weird to me for reasons I can't really articulate.

I see where you are going with this, but I totally read Scotty in this post as someone who just needed to phone it in for a day. I think about 5 other people were voting for gleam right up until the minutes leading up until lynchtime.

[Mongoose]

The point is though, there would not have been a CFD on Fuzz had he not posted that seriously baddie vote in the middle of a discussion of seeking an alternate candidate for those of us not satisfied with a lynch of any of the poll leaders.

TH brought it up, and we all were talking about it when Silver pointed out Fuzz' scummy vote. I think the shocked reactions of several people, as well as the self righteous tones people started taking after ika had more votes is very telling. I think there was some real surprise and scrambling going on. I am usually not a person to like CFDs, this is the first one I have been involved in that actually worked. But I think it worked stupendously. And I am not liking the backlash against it.

Since Fuzz finished up with less votes I think it more likely that probably all of his teammates saved him. Had it been the other way, and had he had the most votes, I might think differently.

For the record, I really liked where your head was at on Day 2. I was heading that way. Also not a fan of CFD, which I also referenced in a less articulate way a couple of days ago.

[ika]

[sig]

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Still on page 32 (I think) nut wanted to bring up a few things.

Silverwolf looks good, she brought Fuzz to the table firat. Ika looks less good for his immediate agreement. Not bad, just less good. SVS looks great for her immediate research despite being behind.


But Golden pings me here. Right around Fuzz's vote, Golden suggests a CFD. Also, when the others started talking about Fuzz, Golden mentioned 4 other names for possible CFD candidates: Serge, Matt, Wilgy, and DDL. DDL's mention wasn't explicit, but he called him continually more scummy for his posts.

Am I being paranoid? I realize I still have several pages to, but just voicing my thoughts here.

I don't think your being paranoid. Stay with me here what if and this is a big if, Epi and Gleam are both bad. The CFD was started to save one them, but it went haywire and lynched the wrong person? Sloonie and Golden both at one point tried to redirect the wagon, and know Golden is lining up people to lynch. I still don't think Gleam is bad just because of how little resistance their was to his lynch, however he was completely dropped yesterday. I find it odd.

[sig]

Oh and I'm reading SVS, TH, and Ika as civ lean. Silver is a solid civ.
Zebra and LC are slight civ leans. I was suspicious of both before, but they don't seem as bad just less active.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Catching up.

I'm gonna lower my activity level from now, and until the end of the game. RL is calling. The only reason I'm not getting replaced is that the hosts don't have people available to replace, and I don't wanna screw up this game.

[Tangrowth]

Front page has been updated now, apologies for the delay.

Don't forget that you have until 5:54PM Eastern time to send in your PMs!

[Sloonei]

Who do you think is bad, quin? And what is your take on today's events?

I still think ika is bad. I also think Luffy is bad, and you are an enigma to me as of current. I'll hopefully be able to let the results of the night phase dictate who gets my vote tomorrow.

The latter two became a thing with the end of the day phase, and the CFD also changed my opinion of Enrique. He is leaning civ, as is Silver. I think I have been tunneling on Scotty, and while I have not put my hypothetical out of my mind, I am going to cut him some slack after seeing his interactions with others.

Are you still as adamant to scumread me as you were half an hour ago?

How dl you town read Enrique after all of that?

[S~V~S]

Who do you think is bad, quin? And what is your take on today's events?

I still think ika is bad. I also think Luffy is bad, and you are an enigma to me as of current. I'll hopefully be able to let the results of the night phase dictate who gets my vote tomorrow.

The latter two became a thing with the end of the day phase, and the CFD also changed my opinion of Enrique. He is leaning civ, as is Silver. I think I have been tunneling on Scotty, and while I have not put my hypothetical out of my mind, I am going to cut him some slack after seeing his interactions with others.

Are you still as adamant to scumread me as you were half an hour ago?

How dl you town read Enrique after all of that?

The same way he thinks the person who was the counter wagon to Fuzz is bad?

[Sloonei]

sig's town.

Go on.

[Sloonei]

WHOA whoa whoa. I go to take a shower and I come back and everyone that had voted for me all of sudden switched bandwagons entirely??

I don't understand this at all. I take it that it was in response to some questionable action that Fuzz took to tie a vote? In wondering whether or not it's to save a teammate?

I'm reading over the posts now and yeah, it does seem like Fuzz is flipping a bit on some opinions. I truthfully haven't examined him at all prior to this point. I will try and examine some posts before the day is over but I don't know if I'll get to it in time.

But I recall a few instances of a couple people wanting to use their votes to break some ties, even being said so in this forum. What am I missing that was special about Fuzz's vote?

LLLLLINKIIIII

This post reeks of BTSC, and not the good kind.

could you elaborate?

[Nerolunar]

Yay! Well done on the lynch.

Im not so sure on Ika anymore. Im more inclined to lynching Epi right now, though I will have to wait for the night to end before making any reads. We should have fresh information by then.

[Sloonei]

I am baffled by the number of people who are saying it's more liky that Fuzz was buzzed than the scum scrambling to save their teammate yesterday. There was no fuzz bandwagon at any point. It came up in the last hour of the day, completely out of the blue. It was the easiest thing in the world for people ro resist, and the cops could do so without necessarily being suspicious or appearing to defend your teammate. You can talk about head games all you want, but if thay CFD was a scum-orchestrated thing then what strategic value does it have? I'd love an answer to that question.

This was frankly one of the best moves I've ever seen in a mafia game. The plan came to fruition and worked out perfectly, but it seems the sentiment in the thread is to go in the complete opposite direction with the results. It's frustrating. I'm certain at least a few of the detractors are cops themselves, but there's still a good number of paranoid civs in that bunch. To them I say: stop being paranoid. There are 24 good guys to 6 bad guys in this game (or 22 to 5 now). That's 4 times as many civs. The threat is not all around us, it's lurking in a small, concentrated area.

[agleaminranks]

I am baffled by the number of people who are saying it's more liky that Fuzz was buzzed than the scum scrambling to save their teammate yesterday. There was no fuzz bandwagon at any point. It came up in the last hour of the day, completely out of the blue. It was the easiest thing in the world for people ro resist, and the cops could do so without necessarily being suspicious or appearing to defend your teammate. You can talk about head games all you want, but if thay CFD was a scum-orchestrated thing then what strategic value does it have? I'd love an answer to that question.

This was frankly one of the best moves I've ever seen in a mafia game. The plan came to fruition and worked out perfectly, but it seems the sentiment in the thread is to go in the complete opposite direction with the results. It's frustrating. I'm certain at least a few of the detractors are cops themselves, but there's still a good number of paranoid civs in that bunch. To them I say: stop being paranoid. There are 24 good guys to 6 bad guys in this game (or 22 to 5 now). That's 4 times as many civs. The threat is not all around us, it's lurking in a small, concentrated area.

I think the CFD was ballsy, and I'm pretty frankly impressed that it succeeded. I think Silverwolf did a commendable job catching something like that, and I'm impressed everyone else was able to rally around it. Even if I do think Silverwolf was acting awfully scummy earlier, as well as Ika. But the results are telling me that I should reconsider my opinion on both of them. Which I will. Silverwolf for doing something incredibly helpful to the civs, and ika for being Fuzz's target, logically give me much more reason to believe they're both in the town as opposed to being bad. I don't buy into the idea of the cops starting the anti-cop bandwagon. Even from a diversionary standpoint it makes almost no sense.

My only paranoia around the CFD was that Fuzz wasn't the only one talking about making a vote to break a tie. I recall at least two others talking about using their vote as a tiebreaker. When he went ahead and did use it as a tiebreaking vote (to tie up ika's votes against mine), that was when the accusations flew out. I can see the contradiction that Silverwolf pointed out between the posts (where he mentions not wanting to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 and a half foot pole) but my understanding of that post was that Fuzz just didn't want to get involved with the drama that was surrounding it at the time. It was when things were kind of emotionally heated. Or at least that's how I interpreted the post, not as being related to voting actions or anything. Maybe I misread. I guess I worry that any other of the people who were talking about using a tiebreaker vote and then actually doing so could have suffered the same fate, and they could have been civilians just acting because they didn't want another civilian to get lynched.

When Fuzz was pressured at the end, though, I think he made some definite slips. There was one line in particular (about not caring who got lynched) that definitely moved him into overt baddie territory. I think had I not been on my way out the door at that time I probably would have moved my vote. But the lynch succeeded regardless, thankfully.

[agleaminranks]

When all else fails,

and you don't succeed...

...plastic bag, no receipt.

[indiglo]

Switching to Fuzz for the time being.

I would definitely like to hear from him / her before EoD if possible.

I did recently get mislynched in a CFD in Rocky & Bullwinkle, and it sucked. I prefer people to be able to defend against votes, but I also prefer not to be forced to vote for someone I don't want to vote for in order for my vote to mean something.


Linki up the wazoo here too! Weeeeee!

I don't know indi much at all, but this sort of behavior just seems natural to come from her. Is this correct?

Linki: why your posts so short zeebs?

Don't know if you were actually asking me or not, but yes. I will always remain a bit paranoid in mafia games. And I will probably always second guess myself at least several times during the course of any given game.

[DrWilgy]

Why are you underlining a vote at night?

Huh? Y'all can't vote at night? Wierd!

[indiglo]

Also, I will happily re-look into various people after the results of this lynch. (Duh, right?) I am glad days are 48 hours though, because after yesterday's craziness, I do need a bit of a breather.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Giant post ahead. I'm gonna post a wall of quotes about what happened at EoD2. See if I can make some sense of this mess.

The CFD idea starts here. No suspects are pointed out yet.

I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.

Golden promptly agrees.

I'd love to, too, but we would need to get enough people on board, and preferably including some of the current voters on the existing 3 wagons.

So does the bear:

Talk to me. My vote is based on a ping, and I am not sure why he has other votes. When I looked in here this AM, it seemed that he had more, so if new info has come up I want to act on it, but I don't know that I can totally catch up in the time that I have.

Sloonei is open to it.

My mind is open.

SW points out Fuzz's opportunistic vote. Ika agrees.

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

Golden throws two possible names. Matt and Wilgy. Not Fuzz, but he says he is open to ideas.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Says he is also open to Serge and Fuzz. Doesn't vote them or the other two yet.

Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Sloonei supports a CFD on Matt.

Matt is probably my dark horse lynch option, if we're all gonna start throwing names into the Chinese Fire Drill pool.

Linki: I see we have started doing that! And Matt has other takers.

Jar delivery girl is on board with the whole CFD idea.

Ditto.

Sloonei disagrees with ika. Not clear whether he is against lynching Fuzz or just doesn't like ika's particular point. Looks like the later.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

I do not agree. At this point it only makes sense to vote for one of the three of you, so any vote can be said to be "opportunistic".

Next, I voice against the CFD. Argument ensues. Not gonna post it here because this isn't the point of this post.

The bear makes a big point against Fuzz. Brings up the matter of Fuzz refusing to touch Ika.

Spoiler: show

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

SW disagrees on the CFD. She had priorly agreed on lynching Fuzz, but not the CFD.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Golden congratulates the bear. No vote yet.

Good find, SVS.

Sloonei agrees with the Fuzz lynch. That gives us 4 people wanting to lynch Fuzz: him, ika, SW and SVS.

Spoiler: show

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Okay, now I agree.

Golden states he is willing to vote for Fuzz.

No vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

Ika states he also wants to vote for Fuzz. Again, no vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

i can do that

Sloonei opens the flood gates. The poll doesn't show that because Sloonei would later change the vote, but he is the first to vote.

RadicalFuzz is the crooked kind of player.

TH prefers to vote for Scotty though.

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

Golden votes second.

RadicalFuzz

SW wants to join, but wants more support.

I'm willing to lynch Radical Fuzz right now if there's enough support for it.

Enrique is confused about lynching Fuzz. So is TH.

I am starting to feel more inclined to vote for Epi, and if I reach a point where I'm confident enough to do that, I will do it.

Is that gonna happen on its own? Are you looking for encouragement?

also why is everyone voting fuzz now wtf i wasnt serious

Why Fuzz? I've got linki up the wazoo

Ika votes.

Changed my vote

pedit: well we are @riki

Enrique agrees with my point against the CFD. The Fuzz lynch is fully moving at the time.

Spoiler: show

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

Every post you make is making you look more scummy, imo. Why shouldn't we try to push one now, when so many people think all of the current wagons don't have a lot of merit?

If people don't like any of the 3 wagons then sure, go ahead.

But inviting people to look for a fourth one reeks of an attempt to deflect this lynch into something else.

I don't like the timing of this at all. Because all the scum who are seeing their possible teammates get lynched will take the chance to jump out.

Good post.

Enrique votes for one of the movers of the Fuzz wagon:

Golden I really don't like this.

SW votes. Then the bear. Then me.

Radical Fuzz

If this doesn't happen today, I'm voting it tomorrow.

I went to Fuzz

Tied it backup.

Fine.

RadicalFuzz

I hate this plan but if we are not lynching gleam, the Fuzz is the next in line.

I'm not lynching ika today.

Okay I'm gonna stop here with the votes. The rest is history and can be seen in the poll.

The point is this post was to provide a way for people to look at the flow. Who started the CFD, who pushed, how the idea for lynching Fuzz was developed, who came up with it and who pushed it too. This is useful for the point I want to make next.

Also Sig's post against the lynch hadn't come yet, but would eventually come. Will quote it here since he seems to be a big suspect:

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Ok here is the point. I think Golden is bad.

The reason: the way he moved in this lynch is VERY similar to how he handles bussing in other games where he is bad.

Let me explain how the fiende operates: he is never the one to start the wagon where his teammates are lynched. He waits for someone to bring it up and stays on the fence, looking contributive. But as soon as he smells the wagon, he makes sure he is one of the first to jump on it, in order to keep appearances. He won't jump unless he sees the clear flow of the thread going against the teammate though. But when they do, he will act fast and secute the towncred that lynch will provide. Golden is capable of lynching his entire team, then winning the game alone on a mountain of towncred he carefully obtained along the game. He did it in Economics: got two of his three teammates lynched and made sure to look responsible for it, even when he was never the one to bring the lynch up. He was the first to vote on both lynches, even though he wasn't the one starting the suspicion (TH, the cop, was).

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p148585

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 51#p147451

So it matches with this game. he didn't bring up the CFD. He agreed with it after TH did. He didn't bring up the Fuzz lynch, he actually brought up 3 counter-examples before and attempted to push wagons on them. He only said he was going to vote for Fuzz after four other players did.

And now, he is acting like if everyone on that lynch is automatically town, and the ones who opposed the CFD the most are automatically mafia. A dangerous and absolute view, which doesn't fit an intelligent and questioning person like him. it is perfectly possible for that lynch to contain 1 or even more cops. They could be sacrificing their teammate. Heck, that wasn't even clear it would happen, since the day ended with more votes on ika than on Fuzz. It's likely this was a coordinated job, with some players voting for ika to counter the wagon and some voting for Fuzz in order to split the team. They took the risk, and it didn't pay off since they lost a teammate, but now they are trying to reap the benefits of towncred and/or creating new suspects.

I know this whole thing is a huge tinfoil, but it feels right to me. I'm willing to act on it next day.

That doesn't mean I don't have other suspects though. The ika wagon is probably full of them. I don't like the way Soneji has been playing, for example, and I see the points on Enrique and/or Sig. But I'm gonna pursue this theory first.

I don't like Golden's absolute views. Only siths deal in absolutes. This doesn't sound like a civ wanting to figure out the game.

I'll finish catching up to see if there is anything else worth replying to then disappear again until Day 3. Bye.

[agleaminranks]

That's one hell of an ISO, Luffy-kun. Golden was next on my list to investigate as well.

Where does that put Matt in all of this, then? He's been pushing for almost singularly Golden since the beginning.

[DrWilgy]

Giant post ahead. I'm gonna post a wall of quotes about what happened at EoD2. See if I can make some sense of this mess.

The CFD idea starts here. No suspects are pointed out yet.

I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.

Golden promptly agrees.

I'd love to, too, but we would need to get enough people on board, and preferably including some of the current voters on the existing 3 wagons.

So does the bear:

Talk to me. My vote is based on a ping, and I am not sure why he has other votes. When I looked in here this AM, it seemed that he had more, so if new info has come up I want to act on it, but I don't know that I can totally catch up in the time that I have.

Sloonei is open to it.

My mind is open.

SW points out Fuzz's opportunistic vote. Ika agrees.

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

Golden throws two possible names. Matt and Wilgy. Not Fuzz, but he says he is open to ideas.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Says he is also open to Serge and Fuzz. Doesn't vote them or the other two yet.

Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Sloonei supports a CFD on Matt.

Matt is probably my dark horse lynch option, if we're all gonna start throwing names into the Chinese Fire Drill pool.

Linki: I see we have started doing that! And Matt has other takers.

Jar delivery girl is on board with the whole CFD idea.

Ditto.

Sloonei disagrees with ika. Not clear whether he is against lynching Fuzz or just doesn't like ika's particular point. Looks like the later.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

I do not agree. At this point it only makes sense to vote for one of the three of you, so any vote can be said to be "opportunistic".

Next, I voice against the CFD. Argument ensues. Not gonna post it here because this isn't the point of this post.

The bear makes a big point against Fuzz. Brings up the matter of Fuzz refusing to touch Ika.

Spoiler: show

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

SW disagrees on the CFD. She had priorly agreed on lynching Fuzz, but not the CFD.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Golden congratulates the bear. No vote yet.

Good find, SVS.

Sloonei agrees with the Fuzz lynch. That gives us 4 people wanting to lynch Fuzz: him, ika, SW and SVS.

Spoiler: show

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Okay, now I agree.

Golden states he is willing to vote for Fuzz.

No vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

Ika states he also wants to vote for Fuzz. Again, no vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

i can do that

Sloonei opens the flood gates. The poll doesn't show that because Sloonei would later change the vote, but he is the first to vote.

RadicalFuzz is the crooked kind of player.

TH prefers to vote for Scotty though.

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

Golden votes second.

RadicalFuzz

SW wants to join, but wants more support.

I'm willing to lynch Radical Fuzz right now if there's enough support for it.

Enrique is confused about lynching Fuzz. So is TH.

I am starting to feel more inclined to vote for Epi, and if I reach a point where I'm confident enough to do that, I will do it.

Is that gonna happen on its own? Are you looking for encouragement?

also why is everyone voting fuzz now wtf i wasnt serious

Why Fuzz? I've got linki up the wazoo

Ika votes.

Changed my vote

pedit: well we are @riki

Enrique agrees with my point against the CFD. The Fuzz lynch is fully moving at the time.

Spoiler: show

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

Every post you make is making you look more scummy, imo. Why shouldn't we try to push one now, when so many people think all of the current wagons don't have a lot of merit?

If people don't like any of the 3 wagons then sure, go ahead.

But inviting people to look for a fourth one reeks of an attempt to deflect this lynch into something else.

I don't like the timing of this at all. Because all the scum who are seeing their possible teammates get lynched will take the chance to jump out.

Good post.

Enrique votes for one of the movers of the Fuzz wagon:

Golden I really don't like this.

SW votes. Then the bear. Then me.

Radical Fuzz

If this doesn't happen today, I'm voting it tomorrow.

I went to Fuzz

Tied it backup.

Fine.

RadicalFuzz

I hate this plan but if we are not lynching gleam, the Fuzz is the next in line.

I'm not lynching ika today.

Okay I'm gonna stop here with the votes. The rest is history and can be seen in the poll.

The point is this post was to provide a way for people to look at the flow. Who started the CFD, who pushed, how the idea for lynching Fuzz was developed, who came up with it and who pushed it too. This is useful for the point I want to make next.

Also Sig's post against the lynch hadn't come yet, but would eventually come. Will quote it here since he seems to be a big suspect:

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Ok here is the point. I think Golden is bad.

The reason: the way he moved in this lynch is VERY similar to how he handles bussing in other games where he is bad.

Let me explain how the fiende operates: he is never the one to start the wagon where his teammates are lynched. He waits for someone to bring it up and stays on the fence, looking contributive. But as soon as he smells the wagon, he makes sure he is one of the first to jump on it, in order to keep appearances. He won't jump unless he sees the clear flow of the thread going against the teammate though. But when they do, he will act fast and secute the towncred that lynch will provide. Golden is capable of lynching his entire team, then winning the game alone on a mountain of towncred he carefully obtained along the game. He did it in Economics: got two of his three teammates lynched and made sure to look responsible for it, even when he was never the one to bring the lynch up. He was the first to vote on both lynches, even though he wasn't the one starting the suspicion (TH, the cop, was).

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p148585

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 51#p147451

So it matches with this game. he didn't bring up the CFD. He agreed with it after TH did. He didn't bring up the Fuzz lynch, he actually brought up 3 counter-examples before and attempted to push wagons on them. He only said he was going to vote for Fuzz after four other players did.

And now, he is acting like if everyone on that lynch is automatically town, and the ones who opposed the CFD the most are automatically mafia. A dangerous and absolute view, which doesn't fit an intelligent and questioning person like him. it is perfectly possible for that lynch to contain 1 or even more cops. They could be sacrificing their teammate. Heck, that wasn't even clear it would happen, since the day ended with more votes on ika than on Fuzz. It's likely this was a coordinated job, with some players voting for ika to counter the wagon and some voting for Fuzz in order to split the team. They took the risk, and it didn't pay off since they lost a teammate, but now they are trying to reap the benefits of towncred and/or creating new suspects.

I know this whole thing is a huge tinfoil, but it feels right to me. I'm willing to act on it next day.

That doesn't mean I don't have other suspects though. The ika wagon is probably full of them. I don't like the way Soneji has been playing, for example, and I see the points on Enrique and/or Sig. But I'm gonna pursue this theory first.

I don't like Golden's absolute views. Only siths deal in absolutes. This doesn't sound like a civ wanting to figure out the game.

I'll finish catching up to see if there is anything else worth replying to then disappear again until Day 3. Bye.

So we are lynching Epi tonight right?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I do not understand how anyone who reads that whole thing can honestly take away from it that the people who set out to form that wagon, any one of them, was bad. It makes absolutely zero sense.

This shit I'm talking about.

I've seen more black and white views in internet religion arguments.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Okay that metaphor was weird, should have been "Ive seen less".

Whatever.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Wilgy:

Maybe. I was unwilling to vote for Epi last day because of his point on being less aggressive because he bleieves the forum is too aggressive lately. I agreed with that so I decided to give him a pass. But I don't know what sense to make of Epi's alignment,

[Nerolunar]

A for effort on that one, Dragon. I see your point, and I am not opposed to a Golden Lynch, though I would rather look at Epignosis.

[Sloonei]

Don't lynch Golden. That is silly.

[Sloonei]

Can we all look at Quin's, Epi's, and Enrique's behavior around the lynch? If you can still say that Golden is the most suspicious person in all that, please let me know.

[Marmot]

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Still on page 32 (I think) nut wanted to bring up a few things.

Silverwolf looks good, she brought Fuzz to the table firat. Ika looks less good for his immediate agreement. Not bad, just less good. SVS looks great for her immediate research despite being behind.


But Golden pings me here. Right around Fuzz's vote, Golden suggests a CFD. Also, when the others started talking about Fuzz, Golden mentioned 4 other names for possible CFD candidates: Serge, Matt, Wilgy, and DDL. DDL's mention wasn't explicit, but he called him continually more scummy for his posts.

Am I being paranoid? I realize I still have several pages to, but just voicing my thoughts here.

Didn't I actually explicitly say fuzz in the same post I expicitly said serge? I could be remembering wrong.

I know you mentioned Fuzz's name too, I didn't mean to imply you hadn't. My point was that the CFD idea came up. Several folks mentioned the suspicion of Fuzz's vote. Then you mentioned Matt and Wilgy, then Serge and Fuzz, then DDL. At that moment, I thought you were throwing other names out to steer the idea away from Fuzz to another player.

But I changed my mind after reading further along.

[Sloonei]

Epi's vote for zebra is bugging me a lot.

[Marmot]

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Still on page 32 (I think) nut wanted to bring up a few things.

Silverwolf looks good, she brought Fuzz to the table firat. Ika looks less good for his immediate agreement. Not bad, just less good. SVS looks great for her immediate research despite being behind.


But Golden pings me here. Right around Fuzz's vote, Golden suggests a CFD. Also, when the others started talking about Fuzz, Golden mentioned 4 other names for possible CFD candidates: Serge, Matt, Wilgy, and DDL. DDL's mention wasn't explicit, but he called him continually more scummy for his posts.

Am I being paranoid? I realize I still have several pages to, but just voicing my thoughts here.

I don't think your being paranoid. Stay with me here what if and this is a big if, Epi and Gleam are both bad. The CFD was started to save one them, but it went haywire and lynched the wrong person? Sloonie and Golden both at one point tried to redirect the wagon, and know Golden is lining up people to lynch. I still don't think Gleam is bad just because of how little resistance their was to his lynch, however he was completely dropped yesterday. I find it odd.

You don't need to convince me. Those were my top two suspicions going into Day 2, and they still remain that way. :P

[Sloonei]

Who here thinks I was trying to steer the wagon in another direction with my Matt vote? Look at what was actually happening in the thread at that time, and not just at my vote.